OK! So I finally have a PC again thanks to a scavenging friend.
- CPU = i5-4670k
- MoBo = Asus Z87-A
- GPU = GTX 770
- 620W PSU and R4 Fractal case
Full upgrade is too costly (around $500 as both the DDR-3 based MoBo and CPU would need to be replaced), and frankly unneeded for another 2-3 years, but I do want to upgrade the GPU and double RAM to 16GB.
Goals: Play any modern game at smooth 60 fps on 1080p screen on Ultra would almost certainly be the main/only constraining factor.
RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 DIMM 1600MHz PC3-12800 [16GB] for ~$100. Some of my apps could benefit from this and might come in handy if I need to work on large databases.
Which GPU?
- MSI GeForce GTX 1660 Ti: $350, 20% less power consumption, looks nicer (?).
- MSI GeForce RTX 2060: ~$390, seem to have have 5-10 fps advantage on modern games on 1080p (much more on 1440p, should I decide to upgrade monitor), more future proof as it supports DLSS and ray tracing.
I like MSI GPUs as they tend to be quiet, reliable, have good cooling, and are OC friendly. I assume these are no different and the reviews appear to be ok.
Getting the RTX 2060 seems like a no brainer. Might be worth considering the 1660-Ti if the price differential was $80 (as it seems to be in the US), but in Russia it’s only ~$40.
Does this sound about right? Am I making any mistakes?
Meta-note: I should have never abandoned the PC master race. Thorfinnsson’s “technical” explanations regardless, I strongly believe that the problems with my Lenovo notebook were the result of God punishing me for my treason. I have gotten the message. Laptops are for bringing to work, or for travel – not for the home.
With 20 days worth of warranty remaining, I will soon send it the laptop off to get repaired, hopefully it could at least continue serving in that modest and more appropriate function.
***
@ak
More notable posts since the last Open Thread in case you missed any of them.
- Kazakh President Nazarbayev Resigns
- Succeeding Prez Tokayev to rename capital Astana to Nursultan. I thought the Kazakhs might be freer of the Central Asian inclination towards personality cults, but I guess not.
- Nazarbayev will retain real power. He was made Leader for Life (“elbasy”) in 2010, and he will chair the Security Council, which was made more powerful than the Presidency. I have seen speculations that he will be succeeded by his wife, or one of his two daughters.
- What If Russia Stood on the Sidelines While Crimea Burned?
- More Crimea poasts upcoming soon.
- Some good responses to my Yang post at /r/YangForPresidentHQ
Not many notable posts, as I’m only posting this a few days after the last Open Thread.
*
***
Featured
- *powerful comment*: Hail estimates the number of Muslims in New Zealand
- Elites going into demented damage control mode after Churchtown shootings:
- Sharing the video in New Zealand could get you more jail time than Brenton Tarrant will get for killing any one of those Muslims.
- New Zealand police have been demanding logs from websites where the video was uploaded to, such as Kiwi Farms./
- Britain arresting lots of people as usual.
- *powerful comment*: Thorfinnsson’s analysis of 737 MAX debacle.
- Solar Imperialist: What do stars feel?
- George Church: We should not fear ‘editing’ embryos to enhance human intelligence, says leading geneticist George Church
***
Russia
- *powerful comment*: E dissects internal Ukrainian discussions on what to do about Crimea on Feb 28, 2014
- Completion of the first railroad bridge across the Amur linking China and Russia; should be in operation by the end of the year
- Hyundai/Yandex strike deal on developing self-driving cars
- *powerful comment*: German_reader on how Merkel took the climate school strikes as Russian “hybrid warfare” until the Greens came out in support.
- Moscow prepares ‘White Book’ on human rights violations by Western states
- Mary Ilyushina: “RT apparently makes its employees sign an agreement banning them from criticizing or discussing the inner workings of the channel even 20 YEARS after they quit. Otherwise — 5 mln rub fine (about 77k).“
***
World
- More Zach Goldberg on the rise of millennial Pink Guards
- Trump ReTweets:
- William Craddick: “Russiagate was designed in part to help the UK counter Russian influence by baiting the United States into taking a hard line against them. Leaves us all with a more dangerous world as a consequence. Just another episode of the Great Game.“
- He’s not wrong!
- Andrew Yang not an IQ realist (publicly)
- Airily dismissing utility of IQ tests is highly characteristic of high IQ people. But there are also purely pragmatic reasons for politicians to steer clear.
- Barak Ravid: “This is one of the most bizzare election ad you have ever seen: Israel’s Minister of Justice (!!) Ayelet Shaked plays a model, sprays herself with “Fascism” perfume and says: “Smells like democracy to me”. Viktor Orban on steroids“
- Mencius Moldbugman travel thread:
- “I’m a well-travelled guy and I recently got some comments about my travels, especially in light of the Christchurch shooter’s trips to Pakistan and N Korea. I’d like to share some thoughts on why I don’t think these places radicalised him, plus some talk about Bhutan….. Media cries of radicalisation when they see someone visiting NK or Pakistan are groundless and ignorant of reality. I’m very lucky to be extremely well travelled in unusual locales… the only place I ever felt radicalised was Bhutan.“
***
Science & Culture
- Alexandra Lunn: Constructing a New Russia Through Visual Design
- Inquisitive Bird: Descendents of samurais are still overrepresented among the elite in Japan today.
- Nvidia AI turns sketches into photorealistic landscapes in seconds
- Seems like Getty, Shutterstock, etc. will soon go out of business.
- Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right – after 2,469 years
- *powerful comment*: Thorfinnsson on Luftwaffe vs. modern art
- *powerful comment*: LondonBob on US Civil War alternate history
***
Humor & Powerful Takes
- It appears that svidomy Ukranians are now reporting my Facebook account for anti-Ukrainian hate speech
- Sailer: JPod Deletes His Account
- Vladimir Zhirinovsky: The Man Who Would Be Gog
***
‘Powerful’?? Give me a break Anatoly! 🙂
A photgraph of a bombsight better than Picasso’s Guernica? The ‘alt-right’ gang should stick to planning various interesting anschlusses around the world, not discussions about art (I did notice a fan or two of the Austrian water colorist gain some ‘powerful comments’ too. It’s a shame that you didn’t include them too!). 🙂
The latest from a once time multiple guest on RT: https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/21/on-ilhan-omar-assad-fetishism-and-the-danger-of-red-brown-anti-imperialism/
Harassment? https://www.rt.com/sport/454388-zagitova-doping-control-world-championship/
Hate mongering journalism: https://www.rferl.org/a/cold-war-on-ice-how-czechoslovakia-hockey-team-beat-soviets/29832512.html
Highly suspect that the featured Boris Mikhailov wasn’t asked about the claim made (by one of his Czech opponents in the above linked video) that he played dirty. No note on the many modern day Czechs and Slovaks who’ve played in Russia, inclusive of the best Czech player ever – the not so distantly retired Jaromir Jagr, who doesn’t stereotype Russia/Russians, while opposing the 1968 Soviet led intervention of his country. The late Ivan Hlinka, who coached the Olympic gold medal winning men’s Czech ice hockey team in 1998, went on to coach in Russia.
A photgraph of a bombsight better than Picasso's Guernica? The 'alt-right' gang should stick to planning various interesting anschlusses around the world, not discussions about art (I did notice a fan or two of the Austrian water colorist gain some 'powerful comments' too. It's a shame that you didn't include them too!). :-)Replies: @szopen
Szukalski thought Picasso was Fartist and Pic-ass-hole, and Szukalski was genius, soooo … 😀
(OTOH, Szukalski was also a complete nut plus he was Russophobe)
RE: LondonBob’s Civil War post, with which I mostly agree, as far as alternative history goes when it comes to Britain and America, Ron Unz gave us a good starting point from where we can wander into asking what might have been if a bunch of Limey spies and Roosevelt hadn’t attacked our formerly peaceful country
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/
But an even better question is, what if that troll Teddy Roosevelt hadn’t put Wilson into the White House? Would Taft, et al, have stopped the Fed? And it certainly seems a Taft administration, followed presumably by another Republican victory in 1916, would have stopped U.S. intervention in World War 1. Or was it all inevitable?
America’s “special relationship” with Britain. Pardon me while I vomit in my mouth.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt's actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Konstantin
Had the Republican vote not been split then there was a good chance the US would have entered WWI a lot earlier and Germany been defeated a lot sooner.
https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/04/roosevelt-1912/Replies: @LondonBob
Intentional confusion in ChristChurch and the ‘conspiracy theory’ smear –
Every serious analyst reviewing the New Zealand Tarrant mosque shooting video, finds credibility-nullifying elements of hoax and fraud – the ejected rifle brass casings turning into vapour, obvious computer graphics; the lack of damage in walls and windows from rifle fire; the lack of physical reactions & screams in bodies being shot; the barefoot victim shot down, having socks on two minutes later, etc
But it’s not easy to grok this, as the next logical question is how you can get an entire Muslim community to keep quiet about a ‘fake’ shooting, whilst ‘crisis actors’ give interviews etc
The logical conclusion is that, as some argue, there was a real mosque massacre by one or two gov-tied killers, and a fake video was made to sow confusion and discredit anyone who notices the fakery.
With real Muslims dead, all you need to shut up real witnesses, is to have one or two corrupt Muslim leaders, tell their flock they are dishonouring martrys by trying to talk to media, and Allah wills the situation as is, so shut up. The same Muslim leaders who let the interior of the mosque be filmed earlier, as backdrop for the fabricated Tarrant show.
NZ media would dismiss as ‘crazy’ any wounded or witness Muslim who tried to argue against the video – which they maybe haven’t seen anyway, given NZ censorship.
The ‘white nationalist boogeyman’ is obviously very long-term useful to prop up as alleged shooter. At the same time, there is meagre ground to argue the gov-mercenary shooter angle, and the ‘truther’ crowd is made to look obsessive and foolish quibbling about obvious video fraud.
The value of confusion is high to government operations. Consider 9-11, with five widely-spread stories about what took down the New York World Trade Centre towers on 11 September 2001, four stories all deflecting from whatever is the real truth:
(1) Official story, planes, jet fuel, etc – Denounced as impossible by thousands of architects & engineers
(2) Conventional pre-set explosives, linked to the ‘Israeli art students’ photographed by the New York Times, with boxes whose industrial codes showed them to be bomb detonator components (my vote)
(3) Nano-thermite advanced explosives
(4) Destructive energy rays which the government can use from a distance
(5) 1950s-60s recycled ‘mini nuclear weapons’ detonated inside the towers
Yandex apparently has one of the best self-driving systems out there, despite only starting working on it in 2016.
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/russias-yandex-has-created-what-may-be-most-aggressive-av-tech
They almost didn’t get there, thanks to the wonderful relations between US and Russia.
Nazi Germany could have become potentially quite dangerous to the US if it had successfully conquered Eurasia. It did have fairly advanced technology by the standards of the time after all, especially in rocket development. I guess it comes down to the question whether Hitler’s ambitions were limited to Europe or global, at least in the long term.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt’s actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.
Because he is citing Ron Unz's essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an "isolationist" Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert "Mr. Conservative" Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov's disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would've invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would've provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would've resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the "tide turned" at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing: Obviously German victory isn't guaranteed in such a scenario. It's well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn't have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain's power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could've collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.Replies: @German_reader, @LondonBob, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
PC
You might not need to upgrade for a very long time in light of the end of Moore’s Law.
The Haswell generation (4th) of Intel Core processors is nearly as powerful as the current 8th generation.
The disadvantages in your setup compared to the latest technology are in the data buses:
• DDR3 instead of DDR4
• No NVMe
• No Thunderbolt
DDR4 is a minor improvement and not noticeable for most users.
NVMe is a substantial improvement, but a SATA3 SSD is still speedy enough for most users. If desperate to improve you can use a PCI-E card SSD or configure a SATA RAID 0 array.
Thunderbolt is irrelevant for your needs.
I would not be surprised if this system is satisfactory for your needs a decade from now.
It appears that a 2.5″ SSD is mounted on top of the cage containing an obsolete Western Digital spinning platter hard drive. If that’s not an SSD, I would advise upgrading to a SSD prior to upgrading RAM. Fortunately flash memory prices are in the tank right now so SSD prices are dirt cheap.
No opinion on the GPU as I don’t game.
@ Dmitry, 1070 has very similar performance to 1660-Ti but is almost three years old and just as expensive. No real point to it.Replies: @Dmitry, @donnyess
Szukalski miał pierdnięcie mózgu! 🙂
It’s a photograph of a bomb site, not a photograph of a bombsight.
You do raise a good point none the less. Bombsights of the period were also great works of art.
If found in a ditch with bones and spearheads strewn about, this would have a place of pride in the British Museum. Instead it suffers in obscurity at the Imperial War Museum, a facility whose main purpose is the burnishing of Bernard Law Montgomery’s reputation.
It’s obviously greater than anything Picasso ever produced.
The Roosevelt administration was a key driver of WWII, as much so as Hitler. See The Forrestal Diaries and Joe Kennedy relaying Neville Chamberlain’s thoughts on the matter. War might have been avoided otherwise.
Had the Republican vote not been split then there was a good chance the US would have entered WWI a lot earlier and Germany been defeated a lot sooner.
https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/04/roosevelt-1912/
The IHR do some very good work, but obviously they have their own axes to grind.
Had the Republican vote not been split then there was a good chance the US would have entered WWI a lot earlier and Germany been defeated a lot sooner.
https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/04/roosevelt-1912/Replies: @LondonBob
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
The IHR do some very good work, but obviously they have their own axes to grind.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt's actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Konstantin
John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan’s point of departure is November, 1940.
Because he is citing Ron Unz’s essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an “isolationist” Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert “Mr. Conservative” Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov’s disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would’ve invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would’ve provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would’ve resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the “tide turned” at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing:
Obviously German victory isn’t guaranteed in such a scenario. It’s well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn’t have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain’s power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could’ve collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.
They really had no idea about Soviet capabilities. I'm currently reading a German book about the Wehrmacht, and the picture that emerges of Barbarossa is one of absolute hubris (e.g. the well-known fact that only a fairly small part of the Wehrmacht was motorized, the inferiority of German tanks to some Soviet designs, only compensated in 1941 by better German tactics, use of radio etc., the divisions destined for occupation duties in the rear being grotesquely under-manned and under-equipped, and much more).Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Anyway the idea Britain was so influential on US politics is just not grounded in reality, wasn't in WWI, even less so in regard to WWII. In both cases the Jewish influence was decisive, and many other lobbies were active too. Akin to those today ranting about Russians but not Israelis.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
Good grief!!
You do raise a good point none the less. Bombsights of the period were also great works of art.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Norden_bombsight-IMG_6401-gradient.jpg
If found in a ditch with bones and spearheads strewn about, this would have a place of pride in the British Museum. Instead it suffers in obscurity at the Imperial War Museum, a facility whose main purpose is the burnishing of Bernard Law Montgomery's reputation.
It's obviously greater than anything Picasso ever produced.Replies: @Mr. Hack
Looks to me like you may have missed your calling in life, Thorfinnsson. Perhaps, you should have gone to thunderbird school right after high school? You could have been a real hero too (notice the shiny, brand new bombsight camera?):
Think of all of the mangled and incinerated bodies. I doubt that many bones would be left for your magnum opus photo, though?….
Because he is citing Ron Unz's essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an "isolationist" Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert "Mr. Conservative" Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov's disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would've invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would've provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would've resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the "tide turned" at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing: Obviously German victory isn't guaranteed in such a scenario. It's well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn't have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain's power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could've collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.Replies: @German_reader, @LondonBob, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
shifted to what? Submarines would have been necessary anyway for the war against Britain, and the Luftwaffe remained a force used mostly for tactical support of ground troops, with all attempts at creating aircraft capable of strategic bombing unsuccesful and only pursued later in the war (and those weren’t just caused by considerations of the war against the western powers, there was also the idea of building an Uralbomber to strike Soviet industry in the Urals region).
Given how absurdly confident Hitler and his generals were of victory in June/July 1941 (they really thought the Soviet Union would collapse in a few weeks), this seems likely to me.
They really had no idea about Soviet capabilities. I’m currently reading a German book about the Wehrmacht, and the picture that emerges of Barbarossa is one of absolute hubris (e.g. the well-known fact that only a fairly small part of the Wehrmacht was motorized, the inferiority of German tanks to some Soviet designs, only compensated in 1941 by better German tactics, use of radio etc., the divisions destined for occupation duties in the rear being grotesquely under-manned and under-equipped, and much more).
• Massive capital investments--the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks--22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army's steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success--actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the "armaments miracle")
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would've been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would've faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany's raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn't excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It's true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.Replies: @German_reader, @Gerard2, @Epigon, @Grahamsno(G64)
I think the utility of bombsights is probably somewhat overtated. They were certainly oversold, but it’s questionable whether they really needed a bombsight for Hiroshima. However, I suppose that one could make the argument that it was a political necessity to give the lie to precision bombing in order to spend the vast resources necessary to develop the B-29 and put it into production, that the A-bomb dropped to airburst over Japan is really the penultimate culmination of the bombsight. With the H-bomb being the final product.
Because he is citing Ron Unz's essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an "isolationist" Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert "Mr. Conservative" Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov's disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would've invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would've provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would've resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the "tide turned" at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing: Obviously German victory isn't guaranteed in such a scenario. It's well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn't have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain's power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could've collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.Replies: @German_reader, @LondonBob, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
You ignore the high likelihood of Britain agreeing to Hitler’s very generous peace offers without the assurance of the US entering the war.
Anyway the idea Britain was so influential on US politics is just not grounded in reality, wasn’t in WWI, even less so in regard to WWII. In both cases the Jewish influence was decisive, and many other lobbies were active too. Akin to those today ranting about Russians but not Israelis.
If FDR had been defeated, Churchill might well have been replaced leading to a peace agreement with the Germans.
Jews were obviously pushing America towards war, but Unz's essay about British influence is interesting and eye-opening:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/
It's also not just a matter of alien influence. Much of America's WASP establishment, still in control at that time, favored intervention. Foreign Policy magazine helpfully has its archives online, and you can read all sorts of dreck from 1940 about the American need to enter the war or at least support Britain.
Gallup opinion polling in 1939 also asked Americans if they should help their British "blood brothers" which I found interesting.
American public opinion was largely opposed to intervention, but tellingly almost no one was in favor of joining the Axis whereas a substantial minority favored aiding or joining the Allies. This despite the fact that obviously America stood to gain from dismembering the British Empire and once and for all eliminating the hideous Canuckist Entity from the map.Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
https://books.google.com/books?id=ugFyjRLHPzcC&pg=PT761&lpg=PT761&dq=Ambassador+Potocki+on+conversation+with+Ambassador+Bullitt&source=bl&ots=D7zhs3vpcP&sig=ACfU3U1Hmz5emuNqS-66TFyApHESMkKS1Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI0ar7x5ThAhVCiOAKHeVpDM4Q6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Ambassador%20Potocki%20on%20conversation%20with%20Ambassador%20Bullitt&f=false
Well, not quite. The ‘utility’ and ‘final product’ for the whole affair was upwards of 166,000 people killed. Here’s the ‘work of art’ that Thorfinnsonn dreams about:
https://www.uio.no/studier/emner/hf/iakh/HIS1300MET/v12/undervisningsmateriale/Fussel%20-%20thank%20god%20for%20the%20atom%20bomb.pdfReplies: @Mr. Hack
Weren’t you apologising for a civilisation that ritually slaughtered thousands of people about ten minutes ago?
Thorfinnson once posted the link to this good essay about that:
https://www.uio.no/studier/emner/hf/iakh/HIS1300MET/v12/undervisningsmateriale/Fussel%20-%20thank%20god%20for%20the%20atom%20bomb.pdf
I still am.
Are you really butthurt? He was just making a joke about Picasso’s shitty art.
They really had no idea about Soviet capabilities. I'm currently reading a German book about the Wehrmacht, and the picture that emerges of Barbarossa is one of absolute hubris (e.g. the well-known fact that only a fairly small part of the Wehrmacht was motorized, the inferiority of German tanks to some Soviet designs, only compensated in 1941 by better German tactics, use of radio etc., the divisions destined for occupation duties in the rear being grotesquely under-manned and under-equipped, and much more).Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Between the Fall of France and the start of Barbarossa:
• Massive capital investments–the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks–22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army’s steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success–actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the “armaments miracle”)
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would’ve been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would’ve faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze’s book The Wages of Destruction.
Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany’s raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn’t excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It’s true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.
tbh I have to wonder a bit what kind of ideological biases are present in Tooze's work, if I understand correctly, he comes close to claiming that Britain and the US were Hitler's main enemy, with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler's world view (which would seem very questionable to me).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Anatoly Karlin
The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact - surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?
If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain - that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire's biggest source of oil.
Let's not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war - very successful in this instance...but one in which if the Nazi's had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that "North Africa - Italy - then France" method creates a series of "fail-safes" in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the warReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @Gerard2
https://i.imgur.com/PQKCeKt.png
https://i.imgur.com/TcTCtCl.png
https://i.imgur.com/2uMWQSr.png
https://i.imgur.com/rolbqEC.png ZiS-2 - discontinued because German tanks similarly powerful to KV-3, KV-4 didn't materialise - instead, thousands of Pz. II, Pz. 35, Pz. 38, Pz. III and Pz. IV with 30 mm frontal armour invaded.
ZiS-2 had very high MV, high barrel wear, and would go right through them.
T-34-57 Tank Destroyers were discontinued for the same reason.The most dangerous adversary for Allied and Soviet tankers - PaKs, Panzerjaeger detachments (both towed and self-propelled) and StuGs. Tank vs. tank warfare was advised against - Rommel, Guderian and Mainstein being explicit about it. In 1941 whenever Panzers met head-on with Soviet tank brigades, they suffered badly. The key in Barbarossa was being on the strategic offensive, attacking along unsuspected axes, deep-striking with Panzers at vulnerable targets and letting the Infantry mop up the survivors. Soviet mechanized corps would be ordered to counterattack, break encirclement, react to German advances and then go right into prepared German positions. Strategic offensive+high strategic mobility = Tactical defensive = Victory. Arracourt was the exact same thing, Americans reached same conclusions post-war.T-34 was actually supposed to be a pre-production/early version to learn the lessons and educate workshops. According to original planning, it was supposed to be replaced by T-34M starting with July 1941, and completely gone from production by November 1941. The L-11 armament you quote had no problems with early German AFVs - they were that thin-skinned.Yak-3 was introduced in 1944. Yak-1 was not even the standard fighter in 1941, let alone there being enough frontline pilots traind to use them - most were accustomed to I-153 biplane and I-16 monoplane. Better CS than Ju-87. All CS aircraft are hopeless in conditions of hostile air superiority - Stuka suffered horribly both in 1940 over Low Countries and France, and in Channel and over Britain. Oh, but it was a threat. And a hell of a threat. You see, by far the most numerous AT weapons in the invading army were 3.7 cm PaK and KwK. They were useless against T-34 from all angles and at all combat ranges. The 5cm L/42 of tanks was inadequate as well, while L/60 needed either APCR or lucky side shot.
More T-34 and KV-1 were destroyed by their own crews and abandoned than were lost in direct combat in 1941 - this being the key of the advantage the side which is on the strategic offensive enjoys - it gets the spoils of battlefield. This will become obvious in 1943, 1944 when German Heavy tank battalions suffer 30-40 tank losses in a single day - their repair shops got overran - and Germans didn't count a tank as a loss until it disintegrated or was captured by enemy.
So a horse-drawn, dominantly foot infantry army with puny 3000-something Panzers, PzJg, StPz and StuG, with light Panzer divisions with a single tank battalion (your vaunted doubling of number of Panzer divisions in 1940-1941 was achieved by halving the tank component per Pz. division) drastically outperformed the Big Cat, Wunderwaffe army of 1943-1945.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
You might not need to upgrade for a very long time in light of the end of Moore's Law.
The Haswell generation (4th) of Intel Core processors is nearly as powerful as the current 8th generation.
The disadvantages in your setup compared to the latest technology are in the data buses:
• DDR3 instead of DDR4
• No NVMe
• No Thunderbolt
DDR4 is a minor improvement and not noticeable for most users.
NVMe is a substantial improvement, but a SATA3 SSD is still speedy enough for most users. If desperate to improve you can use a PCI-E card SSD or configure a SATA RAID 0 array.
Thunderbolt is irrelevant for your needs.
I would not be surprised if this system is satisfactory for your needs a decade from now.
It appears that a 2.5" SSD is mounted on top of the cage containing an obsolete Western Digital spinning platter hard drive. If that's not an SSD, I would advise upgrading to a SSD prior to upgrading RAM. Fortunately flash memory prices are in the tank right now so SSD prices are dirt cheap.
No opinion on the GPU as I don't game.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anatoly Karlin
As diminishing returns, of the software, GPU, etc. (If he doesn’t upgrade his GPU too much).
In terms of raw performance, it would be destroyed by the latest generations.
I think it will be fine for 60 fps gaming nonetheless, if he does not use other programs, at the same time….
But, maybe with the RTX 2060 , it will be underpowered though and just bottleneck a new GPU?
With this processor, I guess it would be more suitable to match with something like a 1070? I’m no expert, but I would assume 1070 would be more suitable to match it with?
Anyway the idea Britain was so influential on US politics is just not grounded in reality, wasn't in WWI, even less so in regard to WWII. In both cases the Jewish influence was decisive, and many other lobbies were active too. Akin to those today ranting about Russians but not Israelis.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
A very good point.
If FDR had been defeated, Churchill might well have been replaced leading to a peace agreement with the Germans.
Jews were obviously pushing America towards war, but Unz’s essay about British influence is interesting and eye-opening:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/
It’s also not just a matter of alien influence. Much of America’s WASP establishment, still in control at that time, favored intervention. Foreign Policy magazine helpfully has its archives online, and you can read all sorts of dreck from 1940 about the American need to enter the war or at least support Britain.
Gallup opinion polling in 1939 also asked Americans if they should help their British “blood brothers” which I found interesting.
American public opinion was largely opposed to intervention, but tellingly almost no one was in favor of joining the Axis whereas a substantial minority favored aiding or joining the Allies. This despite the fact that obviously America stood to gain from dismembering the British Empire and once and for all eliminating the hideous Canuckist Entity from the map.
• Massive capital investments--the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks--22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army's steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success--actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the "armaments miracle")
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would've been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would've faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany's raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn't excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It's true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.Replies: @German_reader, @Gerard2, @Epigon, @Grahamsno(G64)
imo that exaggerates the situation. There was no immediate prospect of the US directly entering the war, a majority of the US public was against it (and it’s not even clear to me Roosevelt wanted direct intervention, maybe he would have been content with lend-lease and US navy patrols in the North Atlantic). And Britain on her own could never have expelled German forces from German-occupied Europe (Anglo-supremacists who claim otherwise usually have to resort to fantasy scenarios involving atomic weapons or mass armies of enthusiastic Indians fighting in Europe), in fact couldn’t even do all that much against Germany until 1943 when the bombing offensive escalated.
tbh I have to wonder a bit what kind of ideological biases are present in Tooze’s work, if I understand correctly, he comes close to claiming that Britain and the US were Hitler’s main enemy, with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler’s world view (which would seem very questionable to me).
US rearmament also began in the same year. The Two-Ocean Navy Act was passed into law on July 19, 1940. The act authorized the procurement of: Also in 1940 (actually in December, 1939) the Army Air Corps issued the formal specification that would lead to the B-29.
Britain's war plans since 1936 always focused on strategic bombing. Churchill's plans in turn always involved leveraging American production. America did not have to be directly at war with Germany in order for its industry to provide a lethal threat to Germany.
As for Tooze's ideological biases, he states in another book of his (Crashed) that he is a conventional left-liberal whose loyalties are divided between Britain, Germany, and the "island of Manhattan" (by which he means finance, not NYC).
Tooze does not make the claim that the USSR was an afterthought in Hitler's worldview and acknowledges Hitler's long-range plans of annexing the USSR for Lebensraum. In fact, he does a good job of explaining the economic rationale for this thinking by explaining the miserable condition of the German peasantry in the period.
He does make the claim that since 1938 Hitler believed he was facing a very powerful Western coalition. Operation Barbarossa is presented by Tooze as being part of an economic strategy to acquire the resources needed to face the Anglo-American colossus. In this it can seem like an afterthought even though the acquisition of territory in the east and the helotization, Germanization, and/or elimination of the Slavs had long been central to Hitler's thinking.
There were also other reasons for Barbarossa of course not heavily addressed by Tooze. The Soviet threat to Romanian oil for instance was cited by Hitler himself in his recorded conversation with Mannerheim, and Molotov's demands in October, 1940 were outrageous.Replies: @German_reader
I might try to write a review in the next couple of months. Thankfully Thorfinnsson's poasts have been a good refresher.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt's actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Konstantin
Why that name though? I would have chosen to call it something more fortuitous like Operation Arminius.
As far as I know, there's no real explanation for why that name was chosen, maybe it was kind of random and didn't have any deeper significance.Replies: @Hyperborean, @neutral
tbh I have to wonder a bit what kind of ideological biases are present in Tooze's work, if I understand correctly, he comes close to claiming that Britain and the US were Hitler's main enemy, with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler's world view (which would seem very questionable to me).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Anatoly Karlin
Roosevelt made the announcement in May, 1940 that the USA intended to construct 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain.
US rearmament also began in the same year. The Two-Ocean Navy Act was passed into law on July 19, 1940. The act authorized the procurement of:
Also in 1940 (actually in December, 1939) the Army Air Corps issued the formal specification that would lead to the B-29.
Britain’s war plans since 1936 always focused on strategic bombing. Churchill’s plans in turn always involved leveraging American production. America did not have to be directly at war with Germany in order for its industry to provide a lethal threat to Germany.
As for Tooze’s ideological biases, he states in another book of his (Crashed) that he is a conventional left-liberal whose loyalties are divided between Britain, Germany, and the “island of Manhattan” (by which he means finance, not NYC).
Tooze does not make the claim that the USSR was an afterthought in Hitler’s worldview and acknowledges Hitler’s long-range plans of annexing the USSR for Lebensraum. In fact, he does a good job of explaining the economic rationale for this thinking by explaining the miserable condition of the German peasantry in the period.
He does make the claim that since 1938 Hitler believed he was facing a very powerful Western coalition. Operation Barbarossa is presented by Tooze as being part of an economic strategy to acquire the resources needed to face the Anglo-American colossus. In this it can seem like an afterthought even though the acquisition of territory in the east and the helotization, Germanization, and/or elimination of the Slavs had long been central to Hitler’s thinking.
There were also other reasons for Barbarossa of course not heavily addressed by Tooze. The Soviet threat to Romanian oil for instance was cited by Hitler himself in his recorded conversation with Mannerheim, and Molotov’s demands in October, 1940 were outrageous.
I haven't personally read Tooze's book (and don't intend to in the near future), so I can't comment in any more detail. Thanks for the interesting discussion.Replies: @LondonBob
The name is indeed odd, especially so since the Nazi view of the German middle ages wasn’t positive; iirc the Italian policy of emperors like Barbarossa was seen as a pointless waste of German blood and resources, preventing the creation of a strong central state in Germany and distracting from Germany’s true mission of colonization in Eastern Europe in the fight against the Slavs.
As far as I know, there’s no real explanation for why that name was chosen, maybe it was kind of random and didn’t have any deeper significance.
US rearmament also began in the same year. The Two-Ocean Navy Act was passed into law on July 19, 1940. The act authorized the procurement of: Also in 1940 (actually in December, 1939) the Army Air Corps issued the formal specification that would lead to the B-29.
Britain's war plans since 1936 always focused on strategic bombing. Churchill's plans in turn always involved leveraging American production. America did not have to be directly at war with Germany in order for its industry to provide a lethal threat to Germany.
As for Tooze's ideological biases, he states in another book of his (Crashed) that he is a conventional left-liberal whose loyalties are divided between Britain, Germany, and the "island of Manhattan" (by which he means finance, not NYC).
Tooze does not make the claim that the USSR was an afterthought in Hitler's worldview and acknowledges Hitler's long-range plans of annexing the USSR for Lebensraum. In fact, he does a good job of explaining the economic rationale for this thinking by explaining the miserable condition of the German peasantry in the period.
He does make the claim that since 1938 Hitler believed he was facing a very powerful Western coalition. Operation Barbarossa is presented by Tooze as being part of an economic strategy to acquire the resources needed to face the Anglo-American colossus. In this it can seem like an afterthought even though the acquisition of territory in the east and the helotization, Germanization, and/or elimination of the Slavs had long been central to Hitler's thinking.
There were also other reasons for Barbarossa of course not heavily addressed by Tooze. The Soviet threat to Romanian oil for instance was cited by Hitler himself in his recorded conversation with Mannerheim, and Molotov's demands in October, 1940 were outrageous.Replies: @German_reader
Aircraft are pointless though without aircrew to operate them.
I haven’t personally read Tooze’s book (and don’t intend to in the near future), so I can’t comment in any more detail. Thanks for the interesting discussion.
https://vz.ru/news/2019/3/20/969350.html
LOL…………just when you thought this nutjob country couldn’t get more farcical. Easily deserving of a place on the Open Thread
As for the thing about RT……. I am fairly sure it is standard practise amount all International News channels across the world, particularly American. Even so that story probably isn’t even true – they have plenty of western , foreign journalists – not much chance they could stop them, or sue them in a western court ( or even try)…and anyway the critical worker could just easily leak that to any of the numerous liberast friends that I am pretty sure align with the minds of most RT journalists anyway.
As far as I know, there's no real explanation for why that name was chosen, maybe it was kind of random and didn't have any deeper significance.Replies: @Hyperborean, @neutral
Yes, I suppose that too. I was thinking more of his ignominious end during the Third Crusade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyffh%C3%A4user#Kyffh%C3%A4user_legendReplies: @Hyperborean
He’s not really dead and will return one day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyffh%C3%A4user#Kyffh%C3%A4user_legend
I don’t know, visiting Pakistan is as a good education about what third world populations achieve as a society.
As far as I know, there's no real explanation for why that name was chosen, maybe it was kind of random and didn't have any deeper significance.Replies: @Hyperborean, @neutral
Barbarossa was to join the crusade. Operation Barbarossa was a crusade against the jew, as the USSR was a jewish construct, the name no doubt came from this line of thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyffh%C3%A4user#Kyffh%C3%A4user_legendReplies: @Hyperborean
Interesting, I hadn’t heard of Kyffhäuser before.
They would have used his German name Herman, but it would probably not have been wise to use the name of a man that halted the Roman Empires expansion and ultimately that led it to its doom, the Italian allies would not have been too please with the connotations.
Regarding the visual arts in Russia:
I don’t really like the modern and geometric style, but at least this one is easily comprehensible.
But what are these supposed to represent? I honestly have no clue. If there is no purpose then what is the point?
I think the author, a woman, is trying to make some sort of feminist statement by contrasting these pictures, but honestly, seeing the grim, stern proletarian faces next to joyous, relaxed bourgeois women, it has the opposite effect on me.
You might not need to upgrade for a very long time in light of the end of Moore's Law.
The Haswell generation (4th) of Intel Core processors is nearly as powerful as the current 8th generation.
The disadvantages in your setup compared to the latest technology are in the data buses:
• DDR3 instead of DDR4
• No NVMe
• No Thunderbolt
DDR4 is a minor improvement and not noticeable for most users.
NVMe is a substantial improvement, but a SATA3 SSD is still speedy enough for most users. If desperate to improve you can use a PCI-E card SSD or configure a SATA RAID 0 array.
Thunderbolt is irrelevant for your needs.
I would not be surprised if this system is satisfactory for your needs a decade from now.
It appears that a 2.5" SSD is mounted on top of the cage containing an obsolete Western Digital spinning platter hard drive. If that's not an SSD, I would advise upgrading to a SSD prior to upgrading RAM. Fortunately flash memory prices are in the tank right now so SSD prices are dirt cheap.
No opinion on the GPU as I don't game.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anatoly Karlin
Correct, that’s (my own) SSD.
@ Dmitry,
1070 has very similar performance to 1660-Ti but is almost three years old and just as expensive. No real point to it.
Anyway the idea Britain was so influential on US politics is just not grounded in reality, wasn't in WWI, even less so in regard to WWII. In both cases the Jewish influence was decisive, and many other lobbies were active too. Akin to those today ranting about Russians but not Israelis.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
From 21 November 1938 report by Ambassador Potocki on conversation with Ambassador Bullitt
FDR knew what he wanted.
Hoover’s Secret History of the Second World War … edited by George H. Nash
https://books.google.com/books?id=ugFyjRLHPzcC&pg=PT761&lpg=PT761&dq=Ambassador+Potocki+on+conversation+with+Ambassador+Bullitt&source=bl&ots=D7zhs3vpcP&sig=ACfU3U1Hmz5emuNqS-66TFyApHESMkKS1Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI0ar7x5ThAhVCiOAKHeVpDM4Q6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Ambassador%20Potocki%20on%20conversation%20with%20Ambassador%20Bullitt&f=false
The result of being the puppet of a foreign master:
https://www.amren.com/news/2019/03/new-iraqi-citizenship-law-stirs-controversy/
Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don't seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.
BTW, Trump is calling for the Golan Heights to be recognized as part of Israel. No wonder he is on Israeli campaign posters! Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
• Massive capital investments--the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks--22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army's steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success--actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the "armaments miracle")
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would've been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would've faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany's raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn't excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It's true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.Replies: @German_reader, @Gerard2, @Epigon, @Grahamsno(G64)
…and what stopped them from concentrating on defeating the British in North Africa by way of not conducting Barbarossa? Thus saving valuable resources and military power being sent east – particularly with the Italian forces at an early stage in North Africa proving to be not so successful.
The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact – surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?
If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain – that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire’s biggest source of oil.
Let’s not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war – very successful in this instance…but one in which if the Nazi’s had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that “North Africa – Italy – then France” method creates a series of “fail-safes” in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the war
tbh I have to wonder a bit what kind of ideological biases are present in Tooze's work, if I understand correctly, he comes close to claiming that Britain and the US were Hitler's main enemy, with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler's world view (which would seem very questionable to me).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Anatoly Karlin
He is actually highly respectful of Soviet industrial and organizational accomplishments.
I might try to write a review in the next couple of months. Thankfully Thorfinnsson’s poasts have been a good refresher.
@ Dmitry, 1070 has very similar performance to 1660-Ti but is almost three years old and just as expensive. No real point to it.Replies: @Dmitry, @donnyess
Sure if it’s the same or similar price,I guess there is no danger to buy newer GPU.
But nonetheless to say, with a 6 years old mid-range CPU, probably at best it will not attain performance difference of the new GPU over a few years old 1070, and at worse the CPU will bottleneck the new card and stutter (but then you could just set a fps limit at 60, so it will still be ok).
And I guess you will also try to run the processor at 4.5 or whatever is not too hot for it? and then see how it works with the new GPU. Anyway it will be interesting to read your reports on this.
India might try to collaborate with the UK (BAE Systems) on developing a new fighter plane by 2035.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/will-india-and-the-uk-co-develop-a-sixth-generation-fighter-aircraft/
SAAB had also been roped in by S Korea for one of their KFX concepts..
We would have to be Arab/African level stupid to collaborate with a card carrying leading member of the Anglo MIC(BAE) and expect any other outcome other than spending vast amounts of money in exchange for glorified screwdriver assembly rights with no access to source codes and no significant R&D work for Indian companies/organizations...
I believe the current plan as to field the much delayed LCA fighter and it’s advanced variants in some numbers thereby stabilizing the production line and then build the AMCA with technical assistance from SAAB(The company from a small country most desperate for new orders and thus most likely to transfer technology.)
SAAB had also been roped in by S Korea for one of their KFX concepts..
We would have to be Arab/African level stupid to collaborate with a card carrying leading member of the Anglo MIC(BAE) and expect any other outcome other than spending vast amounts of money in exchange for glorified screwdriver assembly rights with no access to source codes and no significant R&D work for Indian companies/organizations…
The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact - surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?
If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain - that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire's biggest source of oil.
Let's not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war - very successful in this instance...but one in which if the Nazi's had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that "North Africa - Italy - then France" method creates a series of "fail-safes" in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the warReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @Gerard2
Logistics are the largest reason. Prior to Operation Sonnenblume, the Germans determined the largest force that could be fielded in North Africa and supplied from Italy was just four divisions (compare to the Eastern Front).
That is not the sole reason of course, as even this Hitler refused to send. The Italians after the war accused Hitler of having a purely “continental” strategic view. Erich Raeder, commander of the Kriegsmarine, suggested taking Gibraltar (with or without Franco’s consent) and expanding into the Mediterranean.
The German airborne invasion of Crete, while a success, perhaps in a way doomed the small Afrika Korps that Hitler did authorize. Owing to the huge losses at Crete, the Germans chose to cancel the planned invasion of Malta (Operation Hercules). Malta in turn aided the British in interdicting Italian supply convoys to Africa.
German and Italian troops in Africa always suffered extreme shortages and relied heavily on captured equipment (by the time of 1st El Alamein over 80% of Rommel’s truck park was captured British vehicles). The situation was so bad that Axis troops in Africa even suffered from nutritional deficiencies and were jaundiced.
Sort of. He simply declared neutrality and refused to expel German railwaymen and other technical specialists. Iran also reduced its trade with Germany at the request of the British.
His actions were considered insufficient, and given the importance of Iran to Britain and the USSR the hapless country was invaded and occupied.
In any case owing to the Royal Navy there was no way to ship Iranian oil to Germany. In theory Iranian oil could’ve been shipped overland through Turkey, but the British could’ve seized Iran (or just the oilfields) long before any such infrastructure could be built.
The Kriegsmarine did not even have the ability to enter the Mediterranean Sea because the British controlled Gibraltar and Suez. They were able to infiltrate some U-boats.
The Regia Marina was a fairly large force, but it did not have the same high standards as the British. It also suffered from chronic shortages of fuel and thus often was not able to sortie.
There was no oil in North Africa then (it had not yet been discovered), and since Italy’s entry into the war convoys from the east had already been routed around the Cape of Good Hope rather than through the Mediterranean.
An Axis victory in the Western Desert Campaign was in my view possible, but then what? Britain would be excluded from the Mediterranean…but still undefeated. Presumably Axis forces could’ve gone onto Iran, which was Britain’s major source of oil (British Petroleum was originally known as Anglo-Persian), but Britain could also import oil from the rest of the world.
The British did draw up plans to invade Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe in 1945 in order to liberate Poland, but the plan was not carried out for reasons of sanity. The planners clearly had a sense of humor as the plan was named Operation Unthinkable.
As a seapower on the edge of Europe with limited amounts of manpower Britain traditionally exerted itself on the continent through its navy and commercial power. It did field a respectable army, but it was never large and always fought in coalition. After the 100 Years War the only time Britain ever fielded a massive army in Europe for many years in a row was in WW1.
British strategy against Germany was fixed in 1936 to focus on strategic bombing. It was in 1936 that the Air Ministry issued Specification P.13/36 for a “worldwide bomber”. This ultimately led to the Avro Lancaster, superior to the American B-17 and B-24. In order to mollify the French, the Chamberlain government also agreed to send a small expeditionary force (the BEF) to the Continent again as in 1914.
The Anglo-French plan was to stay on the defensive while strangling Germany with economic warfare. They would then use their superior resources (Britain and France had a GDP 60% larger than Germany and Italy) to eventually overwhelm Germany. This was in effect what had worked in WW1, and the defensive mindset was common to a generation of leaders who had cut their teeth fighting the exceptionally skilled German army and had no desire to repeat the horrors of the Somme and Verdun.
Yes, obviously this meant that they never intended to lift a finger for Poland. Too bad for the idiot Poles for being duped by the West.
Unfortunately for their clever plan, the French were unexpectedly completely defeated. In fact, while the Entente expected Poland’s defeat, they also thought Poland would hold out for three months rather than three weeks.
The British were still focused on their strategic bombing plan (which ultimately developed into a terrifying weapon), but were forced to improvise. As German_reader pointed out, obviously the British alone invading Europe (right after losing all their army’s heavy equipment) to face the entire German army was suicidal.
In fact the British never wanted to invade Europe again at all after the Fall of France except in peripheral actions meant to advance postwar British strategic interests. They had to be dragooned into invading Europe by America, which was more eager to fight and had superior resources.
In fairness to the British their strategic bombing plan was sound as demonstrated by the Battle of the Ruhr.
Oil production of Roumania, Iraq, and Iran is about two-thirds the Soviet level. It certainly does suggest an alternative strategy.
Possible problems with this strategy from Hitler's POV in the fall of 1940:
• Requires extensive cooperation with other countries (Italy, Spain, Turkey, etc.)
• German arms "wasted" for the benefit of other countries
• Little grain and no coal to be had in North Africa and the Near East
• Transportation difficulties
• Continued dependence on the USSR
About a potential monitor upgrade:
1440 p is very much worth it (4k is only useful if you’re willing to spend a lot of money on monitor and pc upgrades). 120 or more hertz instead of 60 is even more worth it (even if you primarily or only play single player), a real and visible difference.
Note: it seems there was some oil production in Egypt. Here are global oil production figures from 1940:
Source: https://wayback.archive-it.org/6321/20160901222852/http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/league/le0280ah.pdf
Oil production of Roumania, Iraq, and Iran is about two-thirds the Soviet level. It certainly does suggest an alternative strategy.
Possible problems with this strategy from Hitler’s POV in the fall of 1940:
• Requires extensive cooperation with other countries (Italy, Spain, Turkey, etc.)
• German arms “wasted” for the benefit of other countries
• Little grain and no coal to be had in North Africa and the Near East
• Transportation difficulties
• Continued dependence on the USSR
A lot of the “real” Arabs seem to have somewhat tenuous demographics. Not exactly collapsing TFR, but just copious amounts of foreign workers, many of them subcon or Indonesian Muslims who can claim being brothers in Islam. Then there are all the “natives” with heavy African ancestry from Zanj days, (in Iraq, 500,000) as well as those recently arrived Africans who are desperate even to cross into Yemen.
Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don’t seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.
BTW, Trump is calling for the Golan Heights to be recognized as part of Israel. No wonder he is on Israeli campaign posters! Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?
1. Trying to recognize Israel's annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran's expansion).
3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem. -However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump. This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal - so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time. Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics. Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan - he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous, @for-the-record
I don't think anything serious will happen as long as the KSA has the power to intervene, but if Saudi Arabia gets embroiled in domestic troubles, things might get interesting.
Even if a gastarbeiter revolt is crushed, given that the Gulf Arabs haven't worked for generations, the small countries would face a lot of economic instability.
An amusing anecdote about Arab hypocrisy (beyond the anal sex that is): One of my elder brothers, who works for a large corporation, was stationed in Qatar and he told me that in order to access deviant beverages forbidden to natives some Arab men would discard their Bedouin dress and put on suits and then walk into establishments that are allowed to serve alcohol to foreigners.Replies: @LondonBob
Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don't seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.
BTW, Trump is calling for the Golan Heights to be recognized as part of Israel. No wonder he is on Israeli campaign posters! Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
Unless later Democrat presidents will reverse it, Trump is giving – or trying to give – all the most serious possible victories to Israel.
Probably in order of significance.
1. Trying to recognize Israel’s annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran’s expansion).
3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem.
–
However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump.
This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal – so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time.
Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics.
Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan – he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.
http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-awayAnd in 2010:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.htmlIt would have destroyed his popularity - Israel has its only ski resort there.Replies: @Anon, @DFH, @JL
Not over the next century, I would hazard to predict. But I think your basic point is valid, as its demographic base changes the Democratic Party will be less pro-Israel in the future.
1. Trying to recognize Israel's annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran's expansion).
3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem. -However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump. This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal - so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time. Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics. Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan - he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous, @for-the-record
Apparently, it was two times:
In 1998:
http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-away
And in 2010:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.html
It would have destroyed his popularity – Israel has its only ski resort there.
And the lack of ski resorts is even more painful if you are talking about Jews, some of the most sporty characters this planet has spawned.
Just like the Saudi entity has spread over the last 150 years from nothing, the Jewish entity is spreading its creep in its proximity. Luckily, they are both in a place cursed by nature and inhabited by morons, so almost no one care about the precise border, and the few who don't like it, can't do much. If they would visit us only for ski and snow, the rest of the world would be a better place.
1. Trying to recognize Israel's annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran's expansion).
3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem. -However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump. This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal - so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time. Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics. Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan - he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous, @for-the-record
I think Trump is playing brilliant politics here, and I am no fanboy of his. Democrats are becoming more critical of Israel, but it is still a wedge issue for them, at this time probably the most salient and divisive one. Probably the majority of Democratic voters have a generally neutral-to-negative view of Israel, and now the more strident anti-Zionists (typically younger voters and non-whites) have a voice in Congress with Reps. Omar and Tlaib. But the Dem establishment (embodied in Pelosi and Schumer) is still strongly pro-Israel, and Jewish donors are still a major (really, the major) source of fundraising for establishment Dems.
This is combustible on many levels: to criticize Omar and Tlaib as a Dem is to open oneself up to allegations of sexism, racism, xenophobia and Islamophobia, which can be lethal to one’s career. To support or even tolerate them is to risk alienating Jewish money. All this occurs against the backdrop of Israel taking an increasingly hard line on the settlements and the question of identity, especially if Bibi is re-elected. And Omar and Tlaib, far from being fringe back-benchers, are hip and popular; along with AOC, they have possession of the souls of the young and non-white voters that the Dems are utterly dependent on.
The Democrats are totally schizophrenic on this issue, and Trump knows it. So he will continually try to up the ante, to push any kind of pro-Israel legislation he can think of, to goad Omar and Tlaib into making more brash statements and to goad the Dems into voting against Israel. He hopes that there will be more intra-party struggle sessions and that they waste time drafting resolutions against each other. And then, come 2020, he will run ads in Florida marketed towards elderly Jews positioning himself as the greatest Zionist since Ben-Gurion. Trump is a piss-poor legislator but he is brilliant in PR.
But they never seem to be smart enough. They are not very good at universalistic thinking, and so they don’t really understand the direction of these ideologies even as they already start turning on them. See the numerous Jews supporting Bolshevism still in the early 1950s, long after it ceased being good for the Jews.
Some Jews might already see it, but they still usually cling to some parts of the old and already useless (in fact, outright dangerous) ideology.Replies: @Dmitry
With Israel, the reason everyone knew he was going to be the most pro-Israel American president (before he became president), was because he was personally funding Israeli settlements since 1981. His name is in townsquares in two settlements in Israel as a largest donor to their establishment https://i.imgur.com/VDEY0Sy.jpg?1He wins awards like:
https://i.imgur.com/4wy3w8n.jpgHe led "Salute to Israel" parade in 2004 (lol how does this exist?)
https://i.imgur.com/yGgLMVB.jpgIn 2006, he spent $44 million to buy land in Israel https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-1000105798
Just searching now for this topic, and saw he bought 4 ambulance cycles for Israel in 2014 (there's probably a lot more things like this): https://www.vosizneias.com/154841/2014/02/10/new-york-trump-to-donate-rescue-bikes-to-israels-united-hatzalah/Replies: @Gerard2
I haven't personally read Tooze's book (and don't intend to in the near future), so I can't comment in any more detail. Thanks for the interesting discussion.Replies: @LondonBob
What evidence do you have FDR wasn’t completely committed to fighting?
Jewish crypsis means that they always have to adapt ideologies which are not explicitly pro-Jewish, only implicitly so. But the ideologies have lives of their own, and they could always easily turn out ultimately anti-Jewish. For example Bolshevism turned out to be less good for the Jews than originally imagined. Similarly with multiculturalism, it will likely be negative for the Jews, longer term.
But they never seem to be smart enough. They are not very good at universalistic thinking, and so they don’t really understand the direction of these ideologies even as they already start turning on them. See the numerous Jews supporting Bolshevism still in the early 1950s, long after it ceased being good for the Jews.
Some Jews might already see it, but they still usually cling to some parts of the old and already useless (in fact, outright dangerous) ideology.
Orbán also seems to consider this strategy: trying to get the Israeli Jews on his side. It might work, though as the Israeli tirade against Poland shows, it’s not an easy thing to pull off.
On the other hand (hope you have deep pockets): Replies: @reiner Tor
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/opinion/netanyahu-israel-yair-lapid.html
This is unironically the level many American Jews work on with regards to Israel: please reconquer all of Judea and Samaria, but don't you dare be friendly with some guy who said mean stuff about gays! Palestinian blood is unimportant compared to having a designated prayer space for women at the Western Wall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/religion/israel-women-western-wall.htmlReplies: @German_reader
I don't really like the modern and geometric style, but at least this one is easily comprehensible.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/t/5c8cf5158165f56352703666/1552741665862/0*Qot-zRE87HYG_jvb..jpeg?format=2500w
But what are these supposed to represent? I honestly have no clue. If there is no purpose then what is the point?
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f6f53450a39cc0bae69/1552760688368/0*-z_3rMXKD-LVFtrx..jpeg?format=2500w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f697817f775cf383ed3/1552760682466/0*obsS79k7ggX_yXog..jpeg?format=2500w
I think the author, a woman, is trying to make some sort of feminist statement by contrasting these pictures, but honestly, seeing the grim, stern proletarian faces next to joyous, relaxed bourgeois women, it has the opposite effect on me.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3deb393146785c6d67/1552760638017/0*C2QQJW_IVrvFxog8..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3ce5e5f05150047191/1552760637488/0*725fYT8ahLnBZupb..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15f4e1fca5435edbd2/1552760598755/0*_qTEJFrU-nnbA1nz..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15ec212d73477feedc/1552760598434/0*-vqZ7t113EGCx_VL..jpeg?format=2500wReplies: @WHAT, @Mr. Hack
Well, the first one is a sensible tactical advice on wedge formations, I kid you not.
German manufacturing PMI comes in at just 44.7. The global economic slowdown continues, China and the Eurozone bearing the brunt.
I forecast a no deal Brexit shortly further hitting the Eurozone.
An invasion of France in ’43 would have been disastrous. We had the benefit of experience from Dieppe to know how risky it was. Had the Panzers deployed sooner the actual invasion in ’44 might have similarly ended in disaster.
The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact - surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?
If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain - that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire's biggest source of oil.
Let's not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war - very successful in this instance...but one in which if the Nazi's had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that "North Africa - Italy - then France" method creates a series of "fail-safes" in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the warReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @Gerard2
Thanks for that…. very interesting.Basic and lazy errors about oil from myself there – my apologies!
Harassment? https://www.rt.com/sport/454388-zagitova-doping-control-world-championship/
Hate mongering journalism: https://www.rferl.org/a/cold-war-on-ice-how-czechoslovakia-hockey-team-beat-soviets/29832512.html
Highly suspect that the featured Boris Mikhailov wasn't asked about the claim made (by one of his Czech opponents in the above linked video) that he played dirty. No note on the many modern day Czechs and Slovaks who've played in Russia, inclusive of the best Czech player ever - the not so distantly retired Jaromir Jagr, who doesn't stereotype Russia/Russians, while opposing the 1968 Soviet led intervention of his country. The late Ivan Hlinka, who coached the Olympic gold medal winning men's Czech ice hockey team in 1998, went on to coach in Russia.Replies: @Anon
RFE/RL is a Russophobic cesspool paid by the US government.
Shifting gears, for you auto buffs:
https://www.twelfthroundauto.com/best-motor-oil/
https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer
Scotty is hilarious.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
He is also supporting and endless stream of non whites entering America (whether they are legal or illegal the end result is the same), which means Democrats win. He lied to his base, he is a fraud and also a moron politically. He cared more about what happens to faraway Israel instead of whites being persecuted in the land he is officially supposed to represent.
Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don't seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.
BTW, Trump is calling for the Golan Heights to be recognized as part of Israel. No wonder he is on Israeli campaign posters! Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
The many of smaller Gulf states are like 70-90% non-core population, granted some of that will be expats, who while not exactly favourable to the native Arabs won’t be hostile.
I don’t think anything serious will happen as long as the KSA has the power to intervene, but if Saudi Arabia gets embroiled in domestic troubles, things might get interesting.
Even if a gastarbeiter revolt is crushed, given that the Gulf Arabs haven’t worked for generations, the small countries would face a lot of economic instability.
An amusing anecdote about Arab hypocrisy (beyond the anal sex that is): One of my elder brothers, who works for a large corporation, was stationed in Qatar and he told me that in order to access deviant beverages forbidden to natives some Arab men would discard their Bedouin dress and put on suits and then walk into establishments that are allowed to serve alcohol to foreigners.
I don't think anything serious will happen as long as the KSA has the power to intervene, but if Saudi Arabia gets embroiled in domestic troubles, things might get interesting.
Even if a gastarbeiter revolt is crushed, given that the Gulf Arabs haven't worked for generations, the small countries would face a lot of economic instability.
An amusing anecdote about Arab hypocrisy (beyond the anal sex that is): One of my elder brothers, who works for a large corporation, was stationed in Qatar and he told me that in order to access deviant beverages forbidden to natives some Arab men would discard their Bedouin dress and put on suits and then walk into establishments that are allowed to serve alcohol to foreigners.Replies: @LondonBob
Obesity is the issue to look out for, the ones I see around Knightsbridge are enormous and gorge themselves on cakes whilst avoiding any form of exercise.
Trump’s actions are consistent with decades of support for Israel.
1. Trying to recognize Israel's annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran's expansion).
3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem. -However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump. This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal - so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time. Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics. Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan - he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.Replies: @Dmitry, @Anonymous, @for-the-record
Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal
Not over the next century, I would hazard to predict. But I think your basic point is valid, as its demographic base changes the Democratic Party will be less pro-Israel in the future.
Orbán also seems to consider this strategy: trying to get the Israeli Jews on his side
On the other hand (hope you have deep pockets):
The case itself seems to be, on the face of it, quite ridiculous: they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it's not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything. Regarding the Hungarian government. It's not like Hungary (whose lawful prime minister had to hide in the Turkish embassy, and then was arrested by the Germans and sent to Mauthausen) was in any position to resist the Germans. Regarding the lost property: all Hungarian citizens lost all or most of their property between 1944 and 1961 (the final collectivization), and they didn't regain any of it. Regarding the amount demanded: sure, it's like present-day Hungarians (the oldest of whom were all very young in 1944) should pay a year of their GDP to a few hundred or thousand survivors, or the descendants of the survivors (who arguably didn't suffer anything - they were born after the thing happened...)
If the goal was to increase anti-Semitism, then sure, dude.Replies: @for-the-record
https://www.uio.no/studier/emner/hf/iakh/HIS1300MET/v12/undervisningsmateriale/Fussel%20-%20thank%20god%20for%20the%20atom%20bomb.pdfReplies: @Mr. Hack
It’s indeed an interesting essay that presents a good, balanced view of the complex motives that precipitated the dropping of two A-bombs over Japan. It frames the question of the morality of the decision, in the eyes of those opposed to it quite accurately:
Also, throughout the piece the author emphasizes that it’s easier to make judgements after the fact , than to be on the ground fighting a ferocious war faced with pragmatic considerations.
For me, the overriding factor is indeed that so many civilians were wasted. Soldiers are by design created to fight wars, civilians are not. This is one of the reasons, I suppose that you are so adamantly opposed to the wasting of Polish civilians in Volhynia by bloodthirsty UPA troops? The principle is the same, only the scope of casualties is so very much larger. Who had the moral authority to shift the soldier’s responsibility over to an unwary civilian population?
2. It is very reasonable for states to value the lives of their own citizens over those of foreigners (especially when said foreigners initiated the hostilities against them).
Debates over the morality of the American decision to nuke Japan strike me as extremely silly considering that America (and Britain) had already been carpet bombing Axis civilians (and even non-Axis civilians) for years. The Anglo-Americans also imposed naval blockades on the Axis (and the WW1 Central Powers), including on food and medicine.
Frankly, dying from an atomic bomb strikes me as greatly preferable from being burned alive by fire bombing. Operation Meetinghouse, the fire bombing of Tokyo, immolated 100,000 people. What the Anglo-Americans did to Dresden is of course well known.
As such I am forced to conclude that the real motive for decrying the usage of the atomic bombs is atomophobia. These faux humanitarians rarely have issues with incendiary and high explosive bombs.Replies: @Mr. Hack
1. The soldier/civilian dichotomy is less than absolute when most of the soldiers are conscripts.
2. It is very reasonable for states to value the lives of their own citizens over those of foreigners (especially when said foreigners initiated the hostilities against them).
Civilians fight wars through economic activity which sustains military forces in the field. Their morale also maintains the government which issues orders to said military forces, and the Japanese government in the summer of 1945 was actually quite concerned about this. Hence the Anglo-American strategic bombing doctrine.
Debates over the morality of the American decision to nuke Japan strike me as extremely silly considering that America (and Britain) had already been carpet bombing Axis civilians (and even non-Axis civilians) for years. The Anglo-Americans also imposed naval blockades on the Axis (and the WW1 Central Powers), including on food and medicine.
Frankly, dying from an atomic bomb strikes me as greatly preferable from being burned alive by fire bombing. Operation Meetinghouse, the fire bombing of Tokyo, immolated 100,000 people. What the Anglo-Americans did to Dresden is of course well known.
As such I am forced to conclude that the real motive for decrying the usage of the atomic bombs is atomophobia. These faux humanitarians rarely have issues with incendiary and high explosive bombs.
It’s not similar at all: the atomic bombs were dropped out of military necessity (I realise people dispute this), massacring 100,000 Polish civilians was because of Ukranian nationalist fantasism and bloodlust
Debates over the morality of the American decision to nuke Japan strike me as extremely silly considering that America (and Britain) had already been carpet bombing Axis civilians (and even non-Axis civilians) for years. The Anglo-Americans also imposed naval blockades on the Axis (and the WW1 Central Powers), including on food and medicine.
Frankly, dying from an atomic bomb strikes me as greatly preferable from being burned alive by fire bombing. Operation Meetinghouse, the fire bombing of Tokyo, immolated 100,000 people. What the Anglo-Americans did to Dresden is of course well known.
As such I am forced to conclude that the real motive for decrying the usage of the atomic bombs is atomophobia. These faux humanitarians rarely have issues with incendiary and high explosive bombs.Replies: @Mr. Hack
You make a good point here. If I remember correctly from my college history courses, civilians weren’t regularly targeted during wartime until the 20th century? I realize that I’m being naive to hope that wartime activities could be curtailed to resemble those of medieval times, when it was almost a 9 -5 job, with weekends and holidays off (without pay?).
There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).
Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over "honor" in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren't observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn't follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.
What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would've been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.Replies: @Mr. Hack, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @German_reader
I don't really like the modern and geometric style, but at least this one is easily comprehensible.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/t/5c8cf5158165f56352703666/1552741665862/0*Qot-zRE87HYG_jvb..jpeg?format=2500w
But what are these supposed to represent? I honestly have no clue. If there is no purpose then what is the point?
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f6f53450a39cc0bae69/1552760688368/0*-z_3rMXKD-LVFtrx..jpeg?format=2500w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f697817f775cf383ed3/1552760682466/0*obsS79k7ggX_yXog..jpeg?format=2500w
I think the author, a woman, is trying to make some sort of feminist statement by contrasting these pictures, but honestly, seeing the grim, stern proletarian faces next to joyous, relaxed bourgeois women, it has the opposite effect on me.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3deb393146785c6d67/1552760638017/0*C2QQJW_IVrvFxog8..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3ce5e5f05150047191/1552760637488/0*725fYT8ahLnBZupb..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15f4e1fca5435edbd2/1552760598755/0*_qTEJFrU-nnbA1nz..jpeg?format=1000w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15ec212d73477feedc/1552760598434/0*-vqZ7t113EGCx_VL..jpeg?format=2500wReplies: @WHAT, @Mr. Hack
The Leokrem add works for me – more Vitamin D please. 🙂
Civilians have been routinely targeted in warfare since warfare has existed. The earliest “wars”, between tribes of hunter-gatherers, had the aim of killing off the other tribe’s men in order to seize all their women and hunting lands. The development of agriculture made the men useful as slaves and spared their lives, at least the younger ones.
There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).
Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over “honor” in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren’t observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn’t follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.
What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would’ve been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt's actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Konstantin
I don’t believe that our being the dominant world power has made us any better as a nation in the most important metric, which is moral excellence – arete. I drive from Pennsylvania to the Midwest and see a heartbroken place of absurdly unreasonable decay.
Although some of the paleocons, like Pat Buchanan, really don’t have a big problem with American foreign policy until relatively recently. Buchanan is rather quietly a bit of a Russophobe, at least by today’s dissident right standards. Guys like that don’t seem to mind being less than isolationist, but they do decry the decline in the nation’s interior. Maybe this is what Trumpism is really all about.
Because he is citing Ron Unz's essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an "isolationist" Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert "Mr. Conservative" Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov's disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would've invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would've provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would've resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the "tide turned" at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing: Obviously German victory isn't guaranteed in such a scenario. It's well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn't have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain's power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could've collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.Replies: @German_reader, @LondonBob, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
There was a great paranoid Jewish perspective about the 1940 election in which Charles Lindbergh somehow gets the GOP nomination and becomes President. The perspective was in a novel by Philip Roth called ‘The Plot Against America.’ Luckily no characters spend time acting out sexual fantasies with baked goods or plants, as in other Roth novels.
Since the novel was written by a bizarre person (Roth), obviously the heinous criminal Lindbergh creates an anti-Semitic America, or something.
Bill Kauffman wrote a very funny and derisive review of this book
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/heil-to-the-chief/
There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).
Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over "honor" in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren't observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn't follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.
What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would've been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.Replies: @Mr. Hack, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @German_reader
You’re obviously correct about the inclusion of civilian casualties during ancient times. What I had in mind were the ‘rules of war’ that you allude to, most likely primarily developed in Europe, which I only half sarcastically describe in my description of war during medieval times.
Random
If anyone likes sports but hates SJWs, I recommend watching the American NCAA D1 wrestling national championships, currently in progress in Pittsburgh. Most of the remaining action is available on ESPN.
Most of the wrestlers are macho straight white males, so it’s fairly refreshing and a nice contrast from virtually every other sport now.
Wrestling is somehow still one of the last frontiers in America for men. Although when I watch youth wrestling, I see an increasing number of matches involving boys wrestling girls. Because the wackos have to ruin everything. I get such a weird feeling in my stomach, an involuntary response, when I see girls wrestling boys. It’s just not right, man.
The other great countries in wrestling today are Iran and the countries between Iran and Russia. Russia wins lots of medals, but it seems most of their wrestlers are ethnic Chechens, Ingush, Ossetians, whatever. Countries like Japan have a decent tradition too.
Because he is citing Ron Unz's essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an "isolationist" Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert "Mr. Conservative" Taft of Ohio for instance.
Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov's disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.
Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).
It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would've invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would've provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.
I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would've resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the "tide turned" at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.
Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:
• US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
• Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
• The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
• German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
• Lend-Lease providing: Obviously German victory isn't guaranteed in such a scenario. It's well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn't have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.
Britain's power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could've collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.Replies: @German_reader, @LondonBob, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
!!!
Good grief!!
If FDR had been defeated, Churchill might well have been replaced leading to a peace agreement with the Germans.
Jews were obviously pushing America towards war, but Unz's essay about British influence is interesting and eye-opening:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/
It's also not just a matter of alien influence. Much of America's WASP establishment, still in control at that time, favored intervention. Foreign Policy magazine helpfully has its archives online, and you can read all sorts of dreck from 1940 about the American need to enter the war or at least support Britain.
Gallup opinion polling in 1939 also asked Americans if they should help their British "blood brothers" which I found interesting.
American public opinion was largely opposed to intervention, but tellingly almost no one was in favor of joining the Axis whereas a substantial minority favored aiding or joining the Allies. This despite the fact that obviously America stood to gain from dismembering the British Empire and once and for all eliminating the hideous Canuckist Entity from the map.Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
You’re obviously more knowledgeable than I on statistics to do with America, Germany, and Britain in that period of history. With that said, my perception is that Americans of generic “British ancestry” (I mean including people like the Scotch-Irish, who once produced the thoroughly anti-English Andrew Jackson) became more fond of Great Britain as time wore on.
My ancestry is primarily 18th and 19th century German immigrant stock, so I vaguely perceive a difference between myself and British heritage Americans. Those Americans sure as heck don’t seem to have been terribly philo-English in the middle of the 19th century, although (according to Civil War historian William Freehling) there were pockets that favored England, in places like South Carolina. But South Carolina was always something of an anomaly, even in the South. And in general, this concept of “blood brotherhood” seems like a relatively recent conception. And considering that we had a war scare with Britain as late as the 1890s, I wonder if it was all but within the last 20 years or so before World War 1.
I also wonder if this “blood brotherhood” idea was very much secondary to the main reason Americans accepted the Second World War, which was the “back door” with Japan. The First World War’s 1917 entrance seems more likely to have been inspired by some supposed tie of kinship.
I’m hesitant to make much heavy judgment, though. What do you think?
An example from the 19th century during the Great Exhibition: There were also many reports of American sailors (up to and including US Navy warships exceeding their orders) in the 19th century risking life and limb to fight Japanese and Chinese on behalf of British sailors with kinship as the stated reason.
Britain faced a number of challenging strategic decisions as the Fin de siècle approached, and its leaders decided to appease America. That appeasement has continued right to the present day.
British appeasement satisfied America's leaders, and what was later known as the "Eastern Establishment" in turn had developed deeply co-mingled interests with Britain owing to the financial relationship between Wall Street and the City of London. That Americans and especially their leaders were then largely of British stock made the decision to support Britain in both World Wars that much easier.
The thing holding me back from upgrading my PC is that I have the last AMD process that doesn’t have the hardware backdoor. I just can’t sleep at night knowing there’s a guaranteed backdoor on my system.
There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).
Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over "honor" in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren't observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn't follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.
What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would've been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.Replies: @Mr. Hack, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @German_reader
Sherman’s record is a bit ambiguous, in fact. His conception of “hard war” was different from “total war.”
Joseph T. Glatthaar’s book ‘The March to the Sea and Beyond’ is a good one to read. In it, we learn that Joseph Wheeler’s Confederate cavalry, who did not draw any rations from the CSA government from early 1864 until the war’s end, lived off the Georgia countryside more thoroughly than most of Sherman’s troops.
Most Georgia hamlets that got burned were burned because someone shot at the army from a barn or something. And North Carolina got off fairly easy, due to having been the last state to secede.
The march’s infamous reputation in Georgia was actually merited, probably, only in South Carolina; many of the Union men cursed SC for starting the long war and so let their inhibitions drop.
In Columbia, SC, Sherman’s officers posted guards to protect buildings, but the drunken soldiers simply overwhelmed them with numbers of “firebugs” who threw torches into the homes.
Even some Southerners, though, admitted that many local civilians – of both races, interestingly! – willingly sold whiskey to the passing soldiers, which exacerbated their rage.
Of course, even then, all of this has nothing in comparison to the average war in the Balkans.
Among Union generals, Sheridan and Custer were far harsher in the Shenandoah Valley in 1864 than Sherman ever was. Sherman genuinely seems to have liked Southerners, apart from politics; Braxton Bragg was a close friend, and Joseph Johnston was a pall-bearer at Sherman’s funeral. But Sheridan (whom I hate) and Custer would have both liked carpet bombing the Southern civilians. Sheridan and Custer’s burning of the valley also inspired the totally ruthless Confederate cavalry raid on Chambersburg, PA, which resulted in the burning of the entire town except, oddly enough, the local Masonic temple.
(By the way, the favorite hobby of Confederates invading Pennsylvania and Maryland was to capture local blacks and sell them into slavery – nice little throwback to the ancient days, eh? When they tried this in Greencastle, PA in 1863, a mob of local farmers attacked the rebels and freed the Union prisoners and 10 or 20 blacks they were driving through town.)
Know who else would have liked carpet bombing? Stonewall Jackson. Jackson’s been called the ‘Southern Cromwell’ for good reason.
Custer had it coming at Little Big Horn
Good for you, Cheyenne primitives
Presumably Winfield Scott, architect of the Anaconda Plan, would've approved of strategic bombing.
And just for the record:
Custer had it coming at Little Big Horn
Good for you, Cheyenne primitives
Bari Weiss (American Jewish centre-right columnist and staunch Zionist) did a fawning piece on Israel’s Blue and White coalition for the NYT, and one of the main reasons she cited for admiring them is that, unlike Bibi, they won’t be friendly with Orban and Bolsonaro.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/opinion/netanyahu-israel-yair-lapid.html
This is unironically the level many American Jews work on with regards to Israel: please reconquer all of Judea and Samaria, but don’t you dare be friendly with some guy who said mean stuff about gays! Palestinian blood is unimportant compared to having a designated prayer space for women at the Western Wall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/religion/israel-women-western-wall.html
I don’t have roots in this country, but I don’t think the idea of kinship between Britons and heritage Americans is a 20th century invention. This kinship however was not taken to mean that there should be an alignment between America and Britain given the then substantial ideological differences between the two countries (as Tom Paine, himself born in Britain, pointed out).
An example from the 19th century during the Great Exhibition:
There were also many reports of American sailors (up to and including US Navy warships exceeding their orders) in the 19th century risking life and limb to fight Japanese and Chinese on behalf of British sailors with kinship as the stated reason.
Britain faced a number of challenging strategic decisions as the Fin de siècle approached, and its leaders decided to appease America. That appeasement has continued right to the present day.
British appeasement satisfied America’s leaders, and what was later known as the “Eastern Establishment” in turn had developed deeply co-mingled interests with Britain owing to the financial relationship between Wall Street and the City of London. That Americans and especially their leaders were then largely of British stock made the decision to support Britain in both World Wars that much easier.
Have you tried turning your PC off at night?
Good points–I should’ve named Sheridan over Sherman.
Presumably Winfield Scott, architect of the Anaconda Plan, would’ve approved of strategic bombing.
I agree Trump is very clever in marketing (I was sure he was going to be President already when I first saw him talking about it in 2012 in YouTube).
However, he is not cynical. He believes his policies, like tariffs, Israel and border walls.
Some of these are consistent for all his life. You can see him discussing trade protectionism in the 1980s on television.
With Israel, the reason everyone knew he was going to be the most pro-Israel American president (before he became president), was because he was personally funding Israeli settlements since 1981.
His name is in townsquares in two settlements in Israel as a largest donor to their establishment
He wins awards like:
He led “Salute to Israel” parade in 2004 (lol how does this exist?)
In 2006, he spent $44 million to buy land in Israel
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-1000105798
Just searching now for this topic, and saw he bought 4 ambulance cycles for Israel in 2014 (there’s probably a lot more things like this):
https://www.vosizneias.com/154841/2014/02/10/new-york-trump-to-donate-rescue-bikes-to-israels-united-hatzalah/
What is (are) the best book(s) about the American Civil War?
James MacPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom for a Northern perspective.Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
I will say for now that the following come to mind as very good books
For a one volume political summary, that focuses on 1848-1861, I highly recommend 'The Impending Crisis' by historian by David Potter.
For a longer summary, I quite like William Freehling's two-volume book 'The Road to Disunion.' Freehling focuses on the development of secessionist politics in the South, with enough background info on the North to know what was going on there. He goes into extensive detail and depth on social aspects. You will learn about the many differences between the respective Southern states. Freehling is also rather a fun writer; Potter has lots of good anecdotes, and knows how to write a narrative with pace.
IIRC, Freehling's main argument, with which I mostly agreed, is that as white men began to become more egalitarian (towards themselves, that is, not towards other races/cultures - Jackson is a good example), the domestic elitism, so to speak, of slavery inevitably clashed with the larger political culture, including, to a surprisingly large degree, within the South itself.
David Detzer wrote a fine summary of the actual outbreak of the war - the Sumter crisis. It is called 'Allegiance.'
For a summary of the war itself, 'Battle Cry of Freedom' is, again, pretty good. I have to admit, though, I've mostly read specific topics from the war, and very few summary-type books.
Shelby Foote and Bruce Catton, again, were the classic popular Civil War writers of the mid 20th century. Being a Northerner (though I have rebels in the family tree), Catton's Michigan style is appealing to me more so than Foote. Foote was arguably a better writer, though.
There are copious memoirs from the war. Both armies were, in fact, highly literate. And the guys who could write were much better writers than today's average people.
Whatever you do, don't read Thomas DiLorenzo or Garry Wills. DiLorenzo is a pro-Confederate partisan, while Wills is the kind of guy who tries to interpret Lincoln as belonging to a kind of multicultural liberal tradition. They're both hacks, though DiLorenzo probably commits more sins offensive to the discipline of history.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Beckow
Shelby Foote’s The Civil War: A Narrative.
James MacPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom for a Northern perspective.
Cromwell and Jackson strongly encouraged religious devotion in their troops, viewed themselves as instruments of God as well as being the two generals who shone out the most in their respective civil wars. I am not aware that Cromwell committed any atrocities, the only three I am aware of are the massacre of Bolton residents by Royalists, and the massacre at the siege of Basing House where Cromwell was the commander and some womenfolk camp followers who were killed at some battle. Cromwell’s conduct was exemplary, despite Irish and Royalist black propaganda otherwise.
First of all, several Civil War generals were better than Jackson. Especially Bedford Forrest.
as for Cromwell and atrocities, whatever you say, man
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Massacre_at_Drogheda.jpegReplies: @songbird, @LondonBob
When you're a common enemy of the Irish and the Royalists, you might rethink your position.
There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).
Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over "honor" in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren't observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn't follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.
What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would've been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.Replies: @Mr. Hack, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @German_reader
iirc Sherman’s orders during his campaign in the American South were mostly aimed at destroying property like plantations, railway stock etc. The number of civilians killed by his forces wasn’t that high.
It does admittedly rule out morale bombing, which would include the atomic bombings. Most infamously RAF Bomber Command has a doctrine of "dehousing" specifically intended to demoralize German workers. That said even Bomber Command's "area bombing" was often targeted at industrial concentrations.
American strategic bombing doctrine was specifically focused on industrial targets until Curtis LeMay adopted a modified British approach to Japan.
Civilian casualties were higher than earlier forms of economic warfare, but that was owed to the inaccuracy of high altitude bombing.
I second LondonBob’s recommendation of McPherson’s Battle cry of freedom, probably the best single-volume history of the war (and it isn’t a purely military history, but devotes a lot of attention to political issues, with the first 300 pages or so dealing with the political crises of the 1850s and the 1860 election).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/opinion/netanyahu-israel-yair-lapid.html
This is unironically the level many American Jews work on with regards to Israel: please reconquer all of Judea and Samaria, but don't you dare be friendly with some guy who said mean stuff about gays! Palestinian blood is unimportant compared to having a designated prayer space for women at the Western Wall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/religion/israel-women-western-wall.htmlReplies: @German_reader
In regards to Orban (or Polish right-wingers, or really any kind of European nationalist, no matter how moderate) the issue isn’t homo stuff or other liberal pieties, but rather insufficient grovelling before the altar of eternal Jewish victimhood. The appointed role for Europeans here is that of descendants of Holocaust perpetrators who have to perpetually abase themselves, accept the multicultural restructuring of their societies (so Jews can feel safe/enact their vengeance), and are somehow exspected at the same time to swallow all the ahistorical myth-making of Zionists and uncritically support Israel (because Jewish nationalism is for some reason apparently the only legitimate nationalism).
If anyone can compete with the Jews in WW2 victimhood it's the Poles.
But now we learn that Poland shoah'd the SIX MILLION...Replies: @German_reader, @utu
The Holocaust is a useful rhetorical tool because it is an issue on which Jews occupy an unassailable moral high ground, but it's not something the average Jew/Israeli really cares about as it affects day to day life (Israelis have a warmer regard for Germany than vice versa in every poll I have seen). Orban and the Poles are not demonized because of the Holocaust, they are demonized because they refuse to give their full assent to American-style neoliberalism.Replies: @German_reader
John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan already corrected me on that point, but the correction does not rule out the connection of Sherman’s March to the Sea with 20th century strategic bombing.
It does admittedly rule out morale bombing, which would include the atomic bombings. Most infamously RAF Bomber Command has a doctrine of “dehousing” specifically intended to demoralize German workers. That said even Bomber Command’s “area bombing” was often targeted at industrial concentrations.
American strategic bombing doctrine was specifically focused on industrial targets until Curtis LeMay adopted a modified British approach to Japan.
Civilian casualties were higher than earlier forms of economic warfare, but that was owed to the inaccuracy of high altitude bombing.
The current, bizarre Jewish campaign against Poland is a case in point–and exceptionally weird.
If anyone can compete with the Jews in WW2 victimhood it’s the Poles.
But now we learn that Poland shoah’d the SIX MILLION…
There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it's of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don't understand the psychology of those people.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Denis, @Dmitry
Poland is first in line. Other countries in Eastern Europe like Ukraine and Belarus will come next. But they unlike Poland are not 'ripe' yet for the racket. Ukraine is too poor and politically precarious, so in the mean time the Banderites, the true Jew killers of Eastern Europe, are being nourished and encouraged to taint Ukraine forever with Nazism and make Ukraine easy picking in the future. Belarus is under Putin's protective umbrella. Jewish claims against Belarus would push it closer to Russia. Perhaps Putin could ask his buddy Netanyahu to make such claims. At some point we will see Slovakia being hit really hard because Slovakia was the most enthusiastic country in Europe with respect to Nazi Jewish policies.
Poland was drawn (willingly) into the American sphere of influence with no alternatives left. To make it worse Poland was put (put itself) on the course of conflict with Germany and EU. The recent Polish claims about restitutions from Germany are part of it. It is really just a psy-op directed at Polish public opinion to bring them down to the level of the Jewish vindictive ethics to make them more appreciative of Jewish claims leaving a false promise that once Germany pays (which will not happen) paying the Jews will be easier. Compare that with the letter of reconciliation "We forgive and ask for forgiveness" of 1965 by Polish Bishops to their German counterparts which represents the true spirit of Polish Catholicism.
Some Poles also entertain illusory rationalization that the Jewish claims will be offset by purchases of American (and Israeli) armaments which they want to buy anyway. Poles go through the standard steps of denial. And they are afraid to talk about it because of fear of being accused of antisemitism.
One may wonder to what extent the prying off V4 countries from EU and creating the illusory vision of the Intermarium and the vilification of Russia are part of the long term strategy to settle the Holocaust financial claims. When you think about it, whatever Israel and the Jewry are doing to these countries is good for Russia in the long term.Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
thanks for that – very interesting. Big and lazy errors from myself about oil production during the war – my apologies!
If anyone can compete with the Jews in WW2 victimhood it's the Poles.
But now we learn that Poland shoah'd the SIX MILLION...Replies: @German_reader, @utu
Much weirder though imo is that there’s so much gentile support for Jewish nationalism, even though there’s almost zero reciprocity.
There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it’s of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don’t understand the psychology of those people.
To the ignorant but patriotic Westerner Israel appears to be a kind of fellow Western country struggling against evil Muslims and demented liberals. This sort of person is completely unaware of the fact that Jews (at least diaspora Jews) hate him.
The situation in America is particularly bad owing to the sheer number of Jews here as well as the weird heresy of Christian Zionism.
There is admittedly some reciprocity from Israel itself lately. Netanyahu has been cozying up with the Visegrad group, Trump, Bolsonaro, etc. This draws outraged condemnation from the diaspora.
To go back to Israel and AfD.
Israel's main problem in external policy, is that it has very bad relations with most Muslim countries, and moderately bad one with liberal countries.
Israel's diplomatic priority should be to improve its relationship with Muslim - within limitations of its being in conflict with Muslims.
That's one of the most important things for Israel's survival - to improve its relations with Muslim countries.
So Israel should definitely not try to create relationships with anti-Muslim European political parties, unless those parties are going to be influential in the government of their countries, preferably powerful countries.
As long as anti-Muslim parties are in the opposition, Israel will be idiots to be associated with them.
-
As a similar lesson - Russia should not associate with opposition political parties in Europe, anti-Muslim or pro-Muslim, unless they will actually win an election and become powerful. When Russian government officials were associating with political losers like Marine Le Pen, the effect was both bad for Marine Le Pen, and bad for Russian external policy (reducing its influence) in France.Replies: @German_reader
There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it's of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don't understand the psychology of those people.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Denis, @Dmitry
The successful “Judeo-Christian” psyop along with the suppression of negative information about the Jews explains this.
To the ignorant but patriotic Westerner Israel appears to be a kind of fellow Western country struggling against evil Muslims and demented liberals. This sort of person is completely unaware of the fact that Jews (at least diaspora Jews) hate him.
The situation in America is particularly bad owing to the sheer number of Jews here as well as the weird heresy of Christian Zionism.
There is admittedly some reciprocity from Israel itself lately. Netanyahu has been cozying up with the Visegrad group, Trump, Bolsonaro, etc. This draws outraged condemnation from the diaspora.
On the other hand (hope you have deep pockets): Replies: @reiner Tor
This court case has been going on for at least five (or maybe ten?) years now. It has been thrown out of court at least once, though it’s probably the furthest it has ever come.
The case itself seems to be, on the face of it, quite ridiculous: they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it’s not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything. Regarding the Hungarian government. It’s not like Hungary (whose lawful prime minister had to hide in the Turkish embassy, and then was arrested by the Germans and sent to Mauthausen) was in any position to resist the Germans. Regarding the lost property: all Hungarian citizens lost all or most of their property between 1944 and 1961 (the final collectivization), and they didn’t regain any of it. Regarding the amount demanded: sure, it’s like present-day Hungarians (the oldest of whom were all very young in 1944) should pay a year of their GDP to a few hundred or thousand survivors, or the descendants of the survivors (who arguably didn’t suffer anything – they were born after the thing happened…)
If the goal was to increase anti-Semitism, then sure, dude.
Well, French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF, to Holocaust survivors in the US), and they were defeated countries not allies of Germany. So my guess is that Hungary is going to have to go a very long way to ingratiate itself with the US/Israel to avoid a massive settlement.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Grahamsno(G64)
With Israel, the reason everyone knew he was going to be the most pro-Israel American president (before he became president), was because he was personally funding Israeli settlements since 1981. His name is in townsquares in two settlements in Israel as a largest donor to their establishment https://i.imgur.com/VDEY0Sy.jpg?1He wins awards like:
https://i.imgur.com/4wy3w8n.jpgHe led "Salute to Israel" parade in 2004 (lol how does this exist?)
https://i.imgur.com/yGgLMVB.jpgIn 2006, he spent $44 million to buy land in Israel https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-1000105798
Just searching now for this topic, and saw he bought 4 ambulance cycles for Israel in 2014 (there's probably a lot more things like this): https://www.vosizneias.com/154841/2014/02/10/new-york-trump-to-donate-rescue-bikes-to-israels-united-hatzalah/Replies: @Gerard2
but are you saying that he’s so pro-Israel that it accounts for his heavily anti-Russia policy( in that Russia is aligned with Syria and semi-aligned with Iran)? Or that he’s forced into this by the rest of American apparatus?
As for Russia and Israel – I’ve always viewed the relationship as broadly , positive, but Israel have at times assisted either the state or individuals in Gruzia and Ukraine that are hostile to Russia….and I did note with interest that when practically every western state sent their most important leaders to Shimon Peres’s funeral…..not a single one of Russia’s big politicians went there – not VVP,Medvedev, Lavrov, Matvienko, Volodin . Obviously the US sent everyone, Fra, Spain, Germany ,UK, Italy all sent their PM/Presidents and constitutional monarchs – but nobody for Russia
Poroshenko did though, laughably go to that march in Paris in solidarity over the Charlie Hebdo killings .
Major General JFC Fuller wrote a few books on the American Civil War, for a strictly military assessment then you can’t beat the analysis of arguably the twentieth century’s preeminent military theorist.
http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-awayAnd in 2010:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.htmlIt would have destroyed his popularity - Israel has its only ski resort there.Replies: @Anon, @DFH, @JL
Yeah, most people get very tense when they have to ski abroad. I mean, look at the Saudis and Qataris – they have to make artificial snow! And the shithole countries, without any kind of snow, real or artificial, are SO SAD!
And the lack of ski resorts is even more painful if you are talking about Jews, some of the most sporty characters this planet has spawned.
Just like the Saudi entity has spread over the last 150 years from nothing, the Jewish entity is spreading its creep in its proximity. Luckily, they are both in a place cursed by nature and inhabited by morons, so almost no one care about the precise border, and the few who don’t like it, can’t do much. If they would visit us only for ski and snow, the rest of the world would be a better place.
But they never seem to be smart enough. They are not very good at universalistic thinking, and so they don’t really understand the direction of these ideologies even as they already start turning on them. See the numerous Jews supporting Bolshevism still in the early 1950s, long after it ceased being good for the Jews.
Some Jews might already see it, but they still usually cling to some parts of the old and already useless (in fact, outright dangerous) ideology.Replies: @Dmitry
It’s an autistic theory of mind.
What you believe is influenced by emotions and this has a racial component particularly when minorities want stronger position in society. Ideologies which favor the latter,may have a more rosy emotional coloration (i.e. seem more attractive).
But people cannot actually believe or not believe in truth of something, on basis of “racial interest and longterm conspiracies”. They believe it because they believe it is the true description of reality.
Marxism was more religion than political theory, and like Christianity a Jewish-originated religion – (it’s structure almost the same as Christianity), whose liberation was universalist. And people who believed it, believed because they thought it was universally true and factual description of reality.
It was designed for educated people of the era, designed to be easy to believe (supernatural explanations are hidden by Hegelian concepts like “dialectic”), and for Jews it gave opportunity to “completely assimilate” (covert to a kind living Christianity, rather than the formal one which no longer had influence in the world).
Attraction of Marxism for Jews, precisely is to escape both their external and internal position as Jews, and dissolve into a universal faith and utopia.
Minus utopia, of course, this is what will have occurred with much of (or most?) Jews believers of Marxism. Their grandchildren today, will usually be 3/4 Slavic, and their great-grandchildren, 7/8 Slavic.
The “racial interest” to convert to Marxism was to dissolve an unpleasant and dangerous position as Jews, to become important citizens, and this is what happened for a large proportion of them.
Multiculturalism is intrinsically attractive for a large proportion of any population.
Putin is not Jewish, but he loves multiculturalism almost as his main religion. Merkel is not Jewish, and loves it. Obama not Jewish and loves it.
It was one of the ideologies which has included both sides of the Cold War. If you think this is only attractive to Jews, and not something intrinsically and universally attractive to a significant proportion of people, then you will soon be confused (unless you extend the conspiracy to include all these people like Putin and Merkel being controlled by Jews).
Multiculturalism is definitely a “utopian” ideology though, and will soon collapse against reality in most countries.
So Jews will not even notice that there is a difference between a Jew who explicitly argues that multiculturalism is good because it’s good for the Jews and a gentile white who argues that it’s good because it’s morally good. Interestingly, even you didn’t notice it. Contrary to your assertion, those Jews are rarely cynical, because of course they also use universalistic moral arguments. They don’t even notice that the two are not the same, or that at least in theory there could be a contradiction.Replies: @Dmitry
http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-awayAnd in 2010:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.htmlIt would have destroyed his popularity - Israel has its only ski resort there.Replies: @Anon, @DFH, @JL
It’s like another Shoah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_dsh1ZBY4Q
Because it’s so utopian and unrealistic, it’s going to be always attractive and almost ineliminable with a proportion of the public. Demand for utopian things is eternal.
The way to solve will probably happen on the supply side – which would be substitution an equally utopian and unrealistic ideology for multiculturalism (as multiculturalism had earlier substituted for Marxism).
I guess the new gay religion is already partly substituting, although it’s too compatible with the multiculturalist religion, to push it out.
Of course, ideologies cannot be created on this cynical basis. You need to actually believe them to create an effective ones.
It’s true that there is significant support for multiculturalism among white gentiles, and the importance of any Jewish influence on the emergence and spread of the concept can certainly be debated (though I believe it’s not non-existent, see e.g. Horace Kallen). However imo you miss one important distinction. A white gentile in favour of multiculturalism and lax immigration controls will usually appeal to some abstract universalist ideal, there’s no sense that he’s in favour of it because it’s good for his own group (usually he thinks he doesn’t have a own group, the aspiration is that we’ll all be merely “human”). By contrast, many Jews explicitly state that they’re in favour of multiculturalism and high immigration because they think it’s good for them as Jews (e.g. Yascha Mounk explicitly linked his support for mass immigration to his feeling of alienation as a Jew when growing up in Germany, and says things like “A society that is welcoming to Muslims, is also welcoming to Jews” – he’s clearly arguing from perceived self-interest, and arguments of that kind are common among spokesmen of Jewish organizations).
Multiculturalism and “antiracism” were around during the Cold war, but only exploded in significance after the Cold war. The 1980s were very different from what came later, a kind of Indian summer for the white world.
They have missiles on them there so
• Massive capital investments--the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks--22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army's steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success--actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the "armaments miracle")
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would've been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would've faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany's raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn't excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It's true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.Replies: @German_reader, @Gerard2, @Epigon, @Grahamsno(G64)
Those “total numbers” are bogus when one looks at the breakdown by type, vintage and condition in June 1941.https://i.imgur.com/TcTCtCl.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/rolbqEC.png
ZiS-2 – discontinued because German tanks similarly powerful to KV-3, KV-4 didn’t materialise – instead, thousands of Pz. II, Pz. 35, Pz. 38, Pz. III and Pz. IV with 30 mm frontal armour invaded.
ZiS-2 had very high MV, high barrel wear, and would go right through them.
T-34-57 Tank Destroyers were discontinued for the same reason.
The most dangerous adversary for Allied and Soviet tankers – PaKs, Panzerjaeger detachments (both towed and self-propelled) and StuGs. Tank vs. tank warfare was advised against – Rommel, Guderian and Mainstein being explicit about it. In 1941 whenever Panzers met head-on with Soviet tank brigades, they suffered badly. The key in Barbarossa was being on the strategic offensive, attacking along unsuspected axes, deep-striking with Panzers at vulnerable targets and letting the Infantry mop up the survivors. Soviet mechanized corps would be ordered to counterattack, break encirclement, react to German advances and then go right into prepared German positions. Strategic offensive+high strategic mobility = Tactical defensive = Victory. Arracourt was the exact same thing, Americans reached same conclusions post-war.
T-34 was actually supposed to be a pre-production/early version to learn the lessons and educate workshops. According to original planning, it was supposed to be replaced by T-34M starting with July 1941, and completely gone from production by November 1941. The L-11 armament you quote had no problems with early German AFVs – they were that thin-skinned.
Yak-3 was introduced in 1944. Yak-1 was not even the standard fighter in 1941, let alone there being enough frontline pilots traind to use them – most were accustomed to I-153 biplane and I-16 monoplane.
Better CS than Ju-87. All CS aircraft are hopeless in conditions of hostile air superiority – Stuka suffered horribly both in 1940 over Low Countries and France, and in Channel and over Britain.
Oh, but it was a threat. And a hell of a threat. You see, by far the most numerous AT weapons in the invading army were 3.7 cm PaK and KwK. They were useless against T-34 from all angles and at all combat ranges. The 5cm L/42 of tanks was inadequate as well, while L/60 needed either APCR or lucky side shot.
More T-34 and KV-1 were destroyed by their own crews and abandoned than were lost in direct combat in 1941 – this being the key of the advantage the side which is on the strategic offensive enjoys – it gets the spoils of battlefield. This will become obvious in 1943, 1944 when German Heavy tank battalions suffer 30-40 tank losses in a single day – their repair shops got overran – and Germans didn’t count a tank as a loss until it disintegrated or was captured by enemy.
So a horse-drawn, dominantly foot infantry army with puny 3000-something Panzers, PzJg, StPz and StuG, with light Panzer divisions with a single tank battalion (your vaunted doubling of number of Panzer divisions in 1940-1941 was achieved by halving the tank component per Pz. division) drastically outperformed the Big Cat, Wunderwaffe army of 1943-1945.
The ZiS-2 also reentered service in 1943. First flight was however in 1941. I brought it up as an example of Soviet engineering prowess. The Yak-3 was one of the best designs of the entire war.
Other modern fighters were in service (or entering) in 1941 such as the Yak-1, MiG-3, LaGG 3, etc.
And yes, most types in service in 1941 were obsolete (in harmony with my previous point that little of the modern weaponry was in service at this time). Don't agree other than the elementary point of hostile air superiority. The Ju-87 was one of the very few aircraft of the war capable of true dive bombing, which allowed for pinpoint targeting. Rocket attacks by comparison had quite poor accuracy (as did the Il-2's signature anti-tank bomblets)..
Large caliber airborne cannons had a lot of potential, but no belligerent in the war fielded a satisfactory platform. The Americans designed the excellent Beechcraft XA-38 Grizzly, but it was not introduced into service. Of course, as evidenced by the fact that the Germans ordered the development of new tank and anti-tank weapons in response. The T-34 was one of the most influential tanks of all time. And this ought to be the last word against military tech fanboys.
Also, while the tank component of each Panzer division declined, the medium tank component did not. Recall that during Fall Gelb the most numerous German tank was the PzKw II.
Jews can be a bit like Alawites in Syria. Assad government always talks about religious tolerance, secular state and multiculturalism of Syria.
This is less utopian, than self-interest. (Only in secular, multinational, multireligious Syria, can Alawites with 10% of the population, rule over Sunnis with 80%). With Jews, there can be this cynicism as well.
By far the funniest example of “cynical anti-racist” is Viatcheslav Kantor. He is an ordinary corrupt oligarch, who wants to secure his money by becoming internationally indispensable (like how Abramovich did with football). So renamed himself “Moshe” and suddenly discovered international role as a noble Jew and, anti-racist campaigner.
However, I don’t think most Jewish liberals in rich countries like America, are cynical in this. They are mainly quite utopian people, who had bourgeois families, studied in private schools, and very comfortable lives, where they never saw any wars or violence. All this creates soft, utopian people.
Someone above says why they angry that Netanyahu is friends with Orban. The reason is because they are utopian and self-angelizing their image. Therefore if Israel is associated with Orban and Jews =Israel, their self-image is destroyed. (I understand why Orban has a bad image with American anti-racists, but why multinationalist Putin has is a mystery).
You can't mobilise your nation for war by saying you want the resources, global power, installation of a puppet government - but start speaking about villains murdering babies in incubators, raping 300 000 women, killing 200 000 people in a year (US claim from 1993 on Serbs in Bosnia), gassing - barrel bombing clowns and hospitals and suddenly - the imbeciles start clamouring for intervention.
Aside from the fact that it is in the formal name of the country (Syrian Arab Republic), before the civil war the government used to stamp out Kurdish identity, like all the neighbouring states, due to fear of separatism and a desire to Arabise the country. People who are uncomfortable with honestly thinking in terms of pure utilitarian morality (actions decided on whether this benefits me) can also fool themselves into believing something noble that just happens to support their interests. Aside from everything else, they really, really, hate hate hate Putin for things like Pussy Riot and the "law against proselytising homosexual propaganda" to minors.Replies: @Dmitry
Thanks for the recommendations!
Serbs somehow manage to be universally hated and demonised by Diaspora Jews, while having close and friendly relations with Israelites.
In 1990s, Diaspora Jew dominated media and lobbysts somehow managed to present Serbs as Holocaust perpetrators, Nazis and fascists to general public in USA. This is even more impressive when one is aware of the fact that Serbs fought under Yugocommunist ideology and red star while Croats fought under Ustashe insignia, Ustashe banner, adopted Ustashe currency and Ustashe military units and ranks; Bosniaks happily embraced SS Handschar and Kama, Islamic declaration and Mujahedeen. Even today, when census data is freely available and undisputed, the propagandistic notion of Serb “genociders” and “ethnic cleansers” spread by “Free World” “Liberal Media” persists – 1+ million Serbs were cleansed from their homes from 1991 to 1999.
At the same time, Israel sent military aid, equipment and intel (Jihadis, Mujahedeen, weapon shipments) to Serbs. The knowledgeable Israelis know that Judah Alkalai was inspired by Serb nationalist resurgence of 19th century, the same phenomena which influenced both the rabbi mentor the secular father of Herzl. Kingdom of Serbia was among the first nations to elevate Jews to equal rights, in addition to becoming the the first nation to support Balfour Declaration in 1917,
For the same reason they memed a Montenegrin atheist Yugocommunist and a former US banker as a Serb Ultranationalist Clerofascist, while presenting Islamists, Croat Ultranationalists and Albanian terrorists as anti-fascists, liberals, freedom-fighters and democrats.
Ideology serves as a cover for geopolitical interests and “Realpolitik”. The dogs barking about racism, fascism, dictators Putin, Assad, Maduro are useful idiots.
You can’t mobilise your nation for war by saying you want the resources, global power, installation of a puppet government – but start speaking about villains murdering babies in incubators, raping 300 000 women, killing 200 000 people in a year (US claim from 1993 on Serbs in Bosnia), gassing – barrel bombing clowns and hospitals and suddenly – the imbeciles start clamouring for intervention.
There may be some element of that (and she does invoke it later in the article), but Weiss specifically names Bolsonaro in the same breath as Orban; Brazil had 0 to do with the Holocaust, has historically been friendly to Jews, and on top of that Bolsonaro is a man with avowed pro-Zionist sympathies! And Weiss hates Trump (as do almost all Jewish neocons), and he is probably the most pro-Jewish pro-Israel the US has ever had.
The Holocaust is a useful rhetorical tool because it is an issue on which Jews occupy an unassailable moral high ground, but it’s not something the average Jew/Israeli really cares about as it affects day to day life (Israelis have a warmer regard for Germany than vice versa in every poll I have seen). Orban and the Poles are not demonized because of the Holocaust, they are demonized because they refuse to give their full assent to American-style neoliberalism.
https://i.imgur.com/PQKCeKt.png
https://i.imgur.com/TcTCtCl.png
https://i.imgur.com/2uMWQSr.png
https://i.imgur.com/rolbqEC.png ZiS-2 - discontinued because German tanks similarly powerful to KV-3, KV-4 didn't materialise - instead, thousands of Pz. II, Pz. 35, Pz. 38, Pz. III and Pz. IV with 30 mm frontal armour invaded.
ZiS-2 had very high MV, high barrel wear, and would go right through them.
T-34-57 Tank Destroyers were discontinued for the same reason.The most dangerous adversary for Allied and Soviet tankers - PaKs, Panzerjaeger detachments (both towed and self-propelled) and StuGs. Tank vs. tank warfare was advised against - Rommel, Guderian and Mainstein being explicit about it. In 1941 whenever Panzers met head-on with Soviet tank brigades, they suffered badly. The key in Barbarossa was being on the strategic offensive, attacking along unsuspected axes, deep-striking with Panzers at vulnerable targets and letting the Infantry mop up the survivors. Soviet mechanized corps would be ordered to counterattack, break encirclement, react to German advances and then go right into prepared German positions. Strategic offensive+high strategic mobility = Tactical defensive = Victory. Arracourt was the exact same thing, Americans reached same conclusions post-war.T-34 was actually supposed to be a pre-production/early version to learn the lessons and educate workshops. According to original planning, it was supposed to be replaced by T-34M starting with July 1941, and completely gone from production by November 1941. The L-11 armament you quote had no problems with early German AFVs - they were that thin-skinned.Yak-3 was introduced in 1944. Yak-1 was not even the standard fighter in 1941, let alone there being enough frontline pilots traind to use them - most were accustomed to I-153 biplane and I-16 monoplane. Better CS than Ju-87. All CS aircraft are hopeless in conditions of hostile air superiority - Stuka suffered horribly both in 1940 over Low Countries and France, and in Channel and over Britain. Oh, but it was a threat. And a hell of a threat. You see, by far the most numerous AT weapons in the invading army were 3.7 cm PaK and KwK. They were useless against T-34 from all angles and at all combat ranges. The 5cm L/42 of tanks was inadequate as well, while L/60 needed either APCR or lucky side shot.
More T-34 and KV-1 were destroyed by their own crews and abandoned than were lost in direct combat in 1941 - this being the key of the advantage the side which is on the strategic offensive enjoys - it gets the spoils of battlefield. This will become obvious in 1943, 1944 when German Heavy tank battalions suffer 30-40 tank losses in a single day - their repair shops got overran - and Germans didn't count a tank as a loss until it disintegrated or was captured by enemy.
So a horse-drawn, dominantly foot infantry army with puny 3000-something Panzers, PzJg, StPz and StuG, with light Panzer divisions with a single tank battalion (your vaunted doubling of number of Panzer divisions in 1940-1941 was achieved by halving the tank component per Pz. division) drastically outperformed the Big Cat, Wunderwaffe army of 1943-1945.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Stated in my post:
True, but it was still a technically superb weapon and showed the high skill that Soviet weapons designers had achieved.
The ZiS-2 also reentered service in 1943.
First flight was however in 1941. I brought it up as an example of Soviet engineering prowess. The Yak-3 was one of the best designs of the entire war.
Other modern fighters were in service (or entering) in 1941 such as the Yak-1, MiG-3, LaGG 3, etc.
And yes, most types in service in 1941 were obsolete (in harmony with my previous point that little of the modern weaponry was in service at this time).
Don’t agree other than the elementary point of hostile air superiority. The Ju-87 was one of the very few aircraft of the war capable of true dive bombing, which allowed for pinpoint targeting. Rocket attacks by comparison had quite poor accuracy (as did the Il-2’s signature anti-tank bomblets)..
Large caliber airborne cannons had a lot of potential, but no belligerent in the war fielded a satisfactory platform. The Americans designed the excellent Beechcraft XA-38 Grizzly, but it was not introduced into service.
Of course, as evidenced by the fact that the Germans ordered the development of new tank and anti-tank weapons in response. The T-34 was one of the most influential tanks of all time.
And this ought to be the last word against military tech fanboys.
Also, while the tank component of each Panzer division declined, the medium tank component did not. Recall that during Fall Gelb the most numerous German tank was the PzKw II.
The Holocaust is a useful rhetorical tool because it is an issue on which Jews occupy an unassailable moral high ground, but it's not something the average Jew/Israeli really cares about as it affects day to day life (Israelis have a warmer regard for Germany than vice versa in every poll I have seen). Orban and the Poles are not demonized because of the Holocaust, they are demonized because they refuse to give their full assent to American-style neoliberalism.Replies: @German_reader
I don’t think that’s true, it’s clearly a central element of the identity of many Jews (perhaps the central element for many of the more secular ones), it’s not just pretended. And imo it couldn’t be otherwise.
They also reject any contact with a party like AfD because of its alleged “Nazi origins” (a party that was founded in 2013, when the youngest of Hitler’s voters would have been 100); head of the Jewish World Congress Ronald Lauder has even called for the AfD to be banned. It’s clear that any form of even moderate German nationalism is seen as unacceptable.
The things many Jews say about Poland are far too visceral to be merely the result of political calculation.
* Israeli television program, seems more or less the same as Fox News on this topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amdtD6_JqLEReplies: @reiner Tor
Of these, only Yak-1 stood any modicum of chance against Bf-109F. MiG-3 and LaGG-3 were turkeys.
It was not until Yak-3/9 and La-5/7 that Soviets matched contemporary Bf-109 and FW-190 models.
P-39/63 was not Soviet, of course, but it was another very successful Soviet-employed fighter.
In its niche role and altitude band, yes.
However, if I had to choose which WW2 fighter I would fly to battle, I would narrow it down to P-47 or P-38. P-51 Mustang and its trumpeted superiority are part of Bomber Mafia narrative retouching.
Ju-87, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Aichi D3A were dive bombers and employed successfuly. The key to their success was the air superiority they enjoyed. Once it was gone – Vals went down by the dozens with little to show for.
Stuka was until G model not a good anti-armour, or CS plane due to light armament and lack of armour protection – it would get to the scene, drop its load and be gone. German analogue to Il-2 would probably be Hs-123.
Yes, achieving a direct-hit with fin-“stabilized” rockets – needed to destroy an AFV – 2-3% hit rates by post-battle evaluation crews. Soviet answer was practical – you drop dozens of bomblets across the general target area – just one hitting was often enough to disable the AFV.
Motorkanon solution of Germans, Soviets and P-39/63 was deadly – in my opinion, the German 30 mm already qualifies for large-caliber, and arguably, Soviet 23 mm does as well. In addition, Germans mounted 50 and 75 mm pneumatically and hydraulically operated guns to Hs-123 (semi-automatic, though), while I believe they fitted 50 mm to Me-410 in the Zerstoerer role.
US 75 mm hand-operated in B-24 and B-25 in the Pacific was improvisation.
However, there were more Pz.38(t) in total because Slovakia used them as LT-38 in Barbarossa, and 1st Hungarian Tank Division was equipped with them as well – so the single most numerous Axis tank in Barbarossa was – Czech TNHP/Pz.38(t).
In reading postwar memoirs of Luftwaffe pilots the assessments of the VVS are generally quite poor compared to the RAF and USAAF with certain exceptions.
This isn't down to Russophobia either as assessments of the Red Army are generally positive (Tippelskirch and the Soviet zergling myth aside). P-38 and P-47 were limited to Mach 0.68 and Mach 0.71 respectively in maneuvering. P-51 Mustang was Mach 0.78. Bf 109 and Fw 190 were 0.75.
RAF test pilot Eric Brown on the the matter: It should be added that as a twin-engine aircraft the P-38 was inherently less maneuverable than single-engine fighters. This was irrelevant when it first appeared as it was the fastest airplane in the world, but as the war went on its speed was surpassed by single-engine fighters. Fortunately that was generally not the case in the Pacific.
The P-47 was simply too heavy. This did at least make it very rugged and a fast diver. Other than the lack of cannons it was well suited for the fighter-bomber role.
Other than the unloved (by the Americans) P-39/63 and P-38 all American fighters were also inadequately armed.
Which fighter you wish to take into battle of course depends on the battle. P-51D superiority was real for the 8th Air Force's mission. The Spitfire Mk XIV was arguably better than the P-51D, but it was short ranged and thus useless.
If the P-51D had been tasked with the same mission as the Luftwaffe's fighters, it would've fared poorly owing to its weak armament. Six .50cal BMGs were fine against fighters, but not four-engine bombers. Types other than the Ju-87 weren't capable of vertical dive bombing, nor did they have the Ju-87's automatic dive recovery capabilities. They also weren't fielded in land warfare, being naval bombers.
The ideal dive bomber for CS would've been something like the Boeing XF8B.
Hs-129 was useful as it carried a heavy cannon armament less awkwardly than the Ju-87G and also used engines not in demand elsewhere. That said, hardly an ideal type given its low performance. I wonder if the Me-410 would've been good in this role. Hit rates from the bomblets was also abysmal. Engine-mounted cannon solution was excellent, though it took time to mature. 30mm is I suppose relatively large caliber, but German aircraft with MK 108 cannons were used as fighters and bomber destroyers rather than in the close support role since it was a low velocity gun.
There was a high velocity 30mm cannon (MK 103), but the Germans were unable to get it to work in the motorkanone role as it was apparently too large for the DB605 engine. The Soviet attempt engine mount a 45mm cannon also failed.
50mm was indeed fitted to the Me-410 and also to the Me-262. I noted previously that the Me-410 might've done some good in the anti-armor role.
The Italians, British, and Japanese also all experimented with large caliber cannons in the anti-shipping role. Pz.38(t) was superior to PzKw II, though of course certainly not a medium tank.Replies: @Epigon
Well that’s to be expected, Yang has said he is friends with Eric Turkheimer, one of the leading obscurantists, who has said that knowing about racial differences in intelligence would be akin to knowing how to make atomic bomb. The sort of “science” one would scrape off one’s boot if one were so unfortunate as to step in it
In my opinion, at least that is clever – to reject contact with AfD. (Unless AfD seem to be winning an election).
Putin has been in this stupid decision to have contact with opposition political parties, with government contact with both Marine Le Pen and AfD .
Le Pen at least, will never be President, so there is no benefit for Russia. The cost of having this contact, was to make Russia and Putin more unpopular with the rulers and journalists of France.
Merkel is subsidizing construction of Israeli submarines. So if Israeli leadership are not idiots, they should publicly support Merkel 100%, since she is paying for part of their nuclear deterrent.
Because Israeli leadership* is believing similar things about Muslims, as AfD (you can see Yair Netanyahu’s Twitter to imagine what they say in the Netanyahu house) – it probably itself means Israel should even try to avoid association with opposition like AfD or Le Pen even more
–
* Israeli television program, seems more or less the same as Fox News on this topic
A story to warm the heart of many here:
New Zealand women wear headscarves in solidarity with Muslims after Christchurch shootings
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-22/headscarves-in-solidarity-with-muslim-women-after-mosque-attack/10929734
Led of course by their Prime Minister:
The case itself seems to be, on the face of it, quite ridiculous: they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it's not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything. Regarding the Hungarian government. It's not like Hungary (whose lawful prime minister had to hide in the Turkish embassy, and then was arrested by the Germans and sent to Mauthausen) was in any position to resist the Germans. Regarding the lost property: all Hungarian citizens lost all or most of their property between 1944 and 1961 (the final collectivization), and they didn't regain any of it. Regarding the amount demanded: sure, it's like present-day Hungarians (the oldest of whom were all very young in 1944) should pay a year of their GDP to a few hundred or thousand survivors, or the descendants of the survivors (who arguably didn't suffer anything - they were born after the thing happened...)
If the goal was to increase anti-Semitism, then sure, dude.Replies: @for-the-record
they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it’s not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything
Well, French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF, to Holocaust survivors in the US), and they were defeated countries not allies of Germany. So my guess is that Hungary is going to have to go a very long way to ingratiate itself with the US/Israel to avoid a massive settlement.
Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach. When Belgium started issuing arrest warrants against people like Ariel Sharon, it was ridiculous. But America actually has the strength to make its courts the arbiters of justice about events which happened three quarters of a century ago in countries which the judges never saw (nor do they know particularly much about it from secondary sources), under circumstances unimaginable to them (or American legislators or law enforcement agencies), etc.
One would think it’s dangerous for Jews to push the holocaust reparations issue any further at this point, but they don’t seem to care. Maybe they think they can pull it off forever. Or at least for several decades into the future. The latter seems certainly likely.Replies: @LondonBob, @for-the-record
https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/questions-over-fairness-of-new-french-reparations/
New Zealand women wear headscarves in solidarity with Muslims after Christchurch shootings
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-22/headscarves-in-solidarity-with-muslim-women-after-mosque-attack/10929734
Led of course by their Prime Minister:
https://static.pressfrom.info/upload/images/real/2019/03/22/new-zealand-women-don-headscarves-to-support-muslims-after-shootings__420526_.jpg?content=1Replies: @German_reader, @DFH, @songbird
It’s hard to have much respect for a society that produces pictures like that.
It’s also funny though how that pm shows so much of her hair, defeating the entire purpose of an Islamic headscarf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_ArdernReplies: @German_reader, @WHAT
It was not until Yak-3/9 and La-5/7 that Soviets matched contemporary Bf-109 and FW-190 models.
P-39/63 was not Soviet, of course, but it was another very successful Soviet-employed fighter. In its niche role and altitude band, yes.However, if I had to choose which WW2 fighter I would fly to battle, I would narrow it down to P-47 or P-38. P-51 Mustang and its trumpeted superiority are part of Bomber Mafia narrative retouching. Ju-87, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Aichi D3A were dive bombers and employed successfuly. The key to their success was the air superiority they enjoyed. Once it was gone - Vals went down by the dozens with little to show for. Stuka was until G model not a good anti-armour, or CS plane due to light armament and lack of armour protection - it would get to the scene, drop its load and be gone. German analogue to Il-2 would probably be Hs-123. Yes, achieving a direct-hit with fin-"stabilized" rockets - needed to destroy an AFV - 2-3% hit rates by post-battle evaluation crews. Soviet answer was practical - you drop dozens of bomblets across the general target area - just one hitting was often enough to disable the AFV. Motorkanon solution of Germans, Soviets and P-39/63 was deadly - in my opinion, the German 30 mm already qualifies for large-caliber, and arguably, Soviet 23 mm does as well. In addition, Germans mounted 50 and 75 mm pneumatically and hydraulically operated guns to Hs-123 (semi-automatic, though), while I believe they fitted 50 mm to Me-410 in the Zerstoerer role.
US 75 mm hand-operated in B-24 and B-25 in the Pacific was improvisation. https://i.imgur.com/GG3DzFW.pngHowever, there were more Pz.38(t) in total because Slovakia used them as LT-38 in Barbarossa, and 1st Hungarian Tank Division was equipped with them as well - so the single most numerous Axis tank in Barbarossa was - Czech TNHP/Pz.38(t).Replies: @Thorfinnsson
All true, though in my view the largest problem with the VVS relative to the Luftwaffe was pilot training.
In reading postwar memoirs of Luftwaffe pilots the assessments of the VVS are generally quite poor compared to the RAF and USAAF with certain exceptions.
This isn’t down to Russophobia either as assessments of the Red Army are generally positive (Tippelskirch and the Soviet zergling myth aside).
P-38 and P-47 were limited to Mach 0.68 and Mach 0.71 respectively in maneuvering. P-51 Mustang was Mach 0.78. Bf 109 and Fw 190 were 0.75.
RAF test pilot Eric Brown on the the matter:
It should be added that as a twin-engine aircraft the P-38 was inherently less maneuverable than single-engine fighters. This was irrelevant when it first appeared as it was the fastest airplane in the world, but as the war went on its speed was surpassed by single-engine fighters. Fortunately that was generally not the case in the Pacific.
The P-47 was simply too heavy. This did at least make it very rugged and a fast diver. Other than the lack of cannons it was well suited for the fighter-bomber role.
Other than the unloved (by the Americans) P-39/63 and P-38 all American fighters were also inadequately armed.
Which fighter you wish to take into battle of course depends on the battle. P-51D superiority was real for the 8th Air Force’s mission. The Spitfire Mk XIV was arguably better than the P-51D, but it was short ranged and thus useless.
If the P-51D had been tasked with the same mission as the Luftwaffe’s fighters, it would’ve fared poorly owing to its weak armament. Six .50cal BMGs were fine against fighters, but not four-engine bombers.
Types other than the Ju-87 weren’t capable of vertical dive bombing, nor did they have the Ju-87’s automatic dive recovery capabilities. They also weren’t fielded in land warfare, being naval bombers.
The ideal dive bomber for CS would’ve been something like the Boeing XF8B.
Hs-129 was useful as it carried a heavy cannon armament less awkwardly than the Ju-87G and also used engines not in demand elsewhere. That said, hardly an ideal type given its low performance. I wonder if the Me-410 would’ve been good in this role.
Hit rates from the bomblets was also abysmal.
Engine-mounted cannon solution was excellent, though it took time to mature. 30mm is I suppose relatively large caliber, but German aircraft with MK 108 cannons were used as fighters and bomber destroyers rather than in the close support role since it was a low velocity gun.
There was a high velocity 30mm cannon (MK 103), but the Germans were unable to get it to work in the motorkanone role as it was apparently too large for the DB605 engine. The Soviet attempt engine mount a 45mm cannon also failed.
50mm was indeed fitted to the Me-410 and also to the Me-262. I noted previously that the Me-410 might’ve done some good in the anti-armor role.
The Italians, British, and Japanese also all experimented with large caliber cannons in the anti-shipping role.
Pz.38(t) was superior to PzKw II, though of course certainly not a medium tank.
P-38 having counter-turning propellers meant it could outturn every single-engine fighter in the right turn.
In addition, using differential throttle settings, P-38 flown by expert pilots (instructed by travelling advisers like Lindbergh) could outmaneuver even Japanese nimble fighters, the most maneuverable of the fighters employed in WW2 in “common knowledge”.
No, the Americans knew what they were doing in Pacific - the British pilot was given crappy export P-38 without turbosuperchargers, and suffers from common British illness of Spitfiremania. And be certain that no fighter “maneuvered” at 0.75 Mach. This claim is very dubious by itself for P-47 - it was precisely P-47M which could threaten Me-262 via boom-and-zoom and shallow dive speed accumilation.Also, P-47 operating as a fighter-bomber was an atrocity. It was designed as a high-altitude, long-range interceptor and escort fighter maximizing energy fighting. The complex and expensive turbosupercharger it carried (engineering achievement and masterpiece) that enabled it to outperform supercharged competition was literally deadweight at low altitudes. Its fancy hydraulic control surfaces optimized for high-altitude, high-speed maneuvering was ill-suited for ground-level combat.The thing was very expensive (almost twice the price of Mustang), armoured, resistant to damage (air cooled radials vs. liquid cooled inlines) and heavily armed.Have a look yourself: https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/38801.htmlComments are goldmine as well.https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/54434.htmlAlso, Yugoslavia had post-WW2 late Spitfires, Yaks and P-47. P-47 winner in 9/10 situations. It could outclimb opposition post 6000 m altitude, accumulate energy due to higher ceiling and better high-altitude performance, build up speed via shallow dive and then prey upon hapless opposition in mock fights.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
She was originally a Mormon, but then she left church because Mormons do not support gay rights.
What I don’t understand about her, is how these relatively young people, who have never had profession or job, and do not even seem to have family connections, become the leaders of their country.
Sebastian Kurz of Austria was the first one I saw. He has never had a job and has not completed even a university degree. Yet, he became Foreign Minister at age 27, and Chancellor of Austria at age 32.
He is one of the least qualified people in Austria, and yet he is their leader?
And this New Zealand woman, is very similar – although she is at least slightly more qualified (unlike Kurz, she was at least able to finish university degree in communications and politics).
But she also seems not to have any job or profession in her life, but became leader of the country at age 36 years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_Ardern
It's not unusual though, many Western politicians today have been professional politicans for their entire lives, it's a very important reason for the degeneration of our societies that our "elites" consist of useless parasites who would be nothing without their party machines and their patronage networks.
Also very disturbing that this woman has a Mormon background, something needs to be done to check the spread of that cult.Replies: @Dmitry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_ArdernReplies: @German_reader, @WHAT
That isn’t a qualification, in fact having studied something like “communication studies” or “political science” should count as a big fat minus imo.
It’s not unusual though, many Western politicians today have been professional politicans for their entire lives, it’s a very important reason for the degeneration of our societies that our “elites” consist of useless parasites who would be nothing without their party machines and their patronage networks.
Also very disturbing that this woman has a Mormon background, something needs to be done to check the spread of that cult.
New Zealand women wear headscarves in solidarity with Muslims after Christchurch shootings
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-22/headscarves-in-solidarity-with-muslim-women-after-mosque-attack/10929734
Led of course by their Prime Minister:
https://static.pressfrom.info/upload/images/real/2019/03/22/new-zealand-women-don-headscarves-to-support-muslims-after-shootings__420526_.jpg?content=1Replies: @German_reader, @DFH, @songbird
White Shariah in action.
More like virtue-signalling gynocracy.
It was an evil crime but its reason was no worse than that of Hiroshima. Poland occupied those lands planned to get them back after the war. It also planned to ethnically cleanse them, of Ukrainians (at least,m the local Polish organization wanted this done). UPA took the initiative and ethnically cleansed them first, while they had the chance. They did not have bombers and atom weapons, they had peasants with crude weapons. But they were fighting for their lands, on their native soil, not bombing people thousands of miles away from their native lands. I do not justify what they did, but it wasn’t any worse than Anglo-American deliberate targeting and bombing of German or Japanese civilians.
Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat as part of a campaign to ethnically cleanse people who had been living there for hundreds of years is not the same.
The reasons are not at all the same. Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).Replies: @utu, @AP
New Zealand women wear headscarves in solidarity with Muslims after Christchurch shootings
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-22/headscarves-in-solidarity-with-muslim-women-after-mosque-attack/10929734
Led of course by their Prime Minister:
https://static.pressfrom.info/upload/images/real/2019/03/22/new-zealand-women-don-headscarves-to-support-muslims-after-shootings__420526_.jpg?content=1Replies: @German_reader, @DFH, @songbird
Reminds me: the Swedish Migration Board has, in theory, opened up Sweden to all Chinese Uyghurs. There are about 11 million.
“I do not justify what they did” – Yes, you do.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their "justification" was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.
James MacPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom for a Northern perspective.Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
McPherson is good, but I prefer good old Bruce Catton for a Northern perspective.
That’s ridiculous. The aim of dropping the atomic bombs was to force the Japanese to surrender, avoiding hundreds of thousands of American soldiers dying in an invasion (or possibly even more Japanese civilians in a blockade), in a war started by Japanese aggression.
Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat as part of a campaign to ethnically cleanse people who had been living there for hundreds of years is not the same.
The reasons are not at all the same.
Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).
Let me guess: as an Englishmen you have come to see these Ukrainians as being like the Irish.Replies: @szopen
I hesitate to answer that without thinking about it in categorical terms
I will say for now that the following come to mind as very good books
For a one volume political summary, that focuses on 1848-1861, I highly recommend ‘The Impending Crisis’ by historian by David Potter.
For a longer summary, I quite like William Freehling’s two-volume book ‘The Road to Disunion.’ Freehling focuses on the development of secessionist politics in the South, with enough background info on the North to know what was going on there. He goes into extensive detail and depth on social aspects. You will learn about the many differences between the respective Southern states. Freehling is also rather a fun writer; Potter has lots of good anecdotes, and knows how to write a narrative with pace.
IIRC, Freehling’s main argument, with which I mostly agreed, is that as white men began to become more egalitarian (towards themselves, that is, not towards other races/cultures – Jackson is a good example), the domestic elitism, so to speak, of slavery inevitably clashed with the larger political culture, including, to a surprisingly large degree, within the South itself.
David Detzer wrote a fine summary of the actual outbreak of the war – the Sumter crisis. It is called ‘Allegiance.’
For a summary of the war itself, ‘Battle Cry of Freedom’ is, again, pretty good. I have to admit, though, I’ve mostly read specific topics from the war, and very few summary-type books.
Shelby Foote and Bruce Catton, again, were the classic popular Civil War writers of the mid 20th century. Being a Northerner (though I have rebels in the family tree), Catton’s Michigan style is appealing to me more so than Foote. Foote was arguably a better writer, though.
There are copious memoirs from the war. Both armies were, in fact, highly literate. And the guys who could write were much better writers than today’s average people.
Whatever you do, don’t read Thomas DiLorenzo or Garry Wills. DiLorenzo is a pro-Confederate partisan, while Wills is the kind of guy who tries to interpret Lincoln as belonging to a kind of multicultural liberal tradition. They’re both hacks, though DiLorenzo probably commits more sins offensive to the discipline of history.
My view is that bringing millions of slaves into America was a fatal error. The consequences have not fully played out yet - it might eventually destroy US from within. The never-ending attempts to correct this original error usually make it worse. Opening US to mass migration from the Third World can be traced to guilty feelings among some in the elite, but more directly also to an explicit attempt to dilute the legacy of slavery. It has made it worse, but they will keep on trying.
When in a hole, what is there to do but to dig some more...
Two things
First of all, several Civil War generals were better than Jackson. Especially Bedford Forrest.
as for Cromwell and atrocities, whatever you say, man
This is a very Diaspora Nationalist post.
There are a great many instances of ethnic cleansing, and even genocide, that can be “justified” using the same reasoning.
Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.Replies: @Denis
Ummmmmmmm…….. Does the name Drogheda ring a bell?
If anyone can compete with the Jews in WW2 victimhood it's the Poles.
But now we learn that Poland shoah'd the SIX MILLION...Replies: @German_reader, @utu
Big money. Jewish organizations and Israel are hoping to squeeze out of Poland $300 billions for the so called heirless property. The heirless property disposition raises serious legal issues. Who should get it and why Jews? So the argument is being made along the line of Holocaust uniqueness so the traditional and accepted legal norms could be circumvented.
For this reason the cases of some Poles participation in killing Jews are being blown out of proportions is to create a moral foundation for the ethical norm that the murderers may not draw material benefits from the death of their victims.
Poland is first in line. Other countries in Eastern Europe like Ukraine and Belarus will come next. But they unlike Poland are not ‘ripe’ yet for the racket. Ukraine is too poor and politically precarious, so in the mean time the Banderites, the true Jew killers of Eastern Europe, are being nourished and encouraged to taint Ukraine forever with Nazism and make Ukraine easy picking in the future. Belarus is under Putin’s protective umbrella. Jewish claims against Belarus would push it closer to Russia. Perhaps Putin could ask his buddy Netanyahu to make such claims. At some point we will see Slovakia being hit really hard because Slovakia was the most enthusiastic country in Europe with respect to Nazi Jewish policies.
Poland was drawn (willingly) into the American sphere of influence with no alternatives left. To make it worse Poland was put (put itself) on the course of conflict with Germany and EU. The recent Polish claims about restitutions from Germany are part of it. It is really just a psy-op directed at Polish public opinion to bring them down to the level of the Jewish vindictive ethics to make them more appreciative of Jewish claims leaving a false promise that once Germany pays (which will not happen) paying the Jews will be easier. Compare that with the letter of reconciliation “We forgive and ask for forgiveness” of 1965 by Polish Bishops to their German counterparts which represents the true spirit of Polish Catholicism.
Some Poles also entertain illusory rationalization that the Jewish claims will be offset by purchases of American (and Israeli) armaments which they want to buy anyway. Poles go through the standard steps of denial. And they are afraid to talk about it because of fear of being accused of antisemitism.
One may wonder to what extent the prying off V4 countries from EU and creating the illusory vision of the Intermarium and the vilification of Russia are part of the long term strategy to settle the Holocaust financial claims. When you think about it, whatever Israel and the Jewry are doing to these countries is good for Russia in the long term.
Noticeably anti-Serb as well.
Shifting gears, for you auto buffs:
https://www.twelfthroundauto.com/best-motor-oil/
https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer
Scotty is hilarious.
I've always used Mobil One.Replies: @Mikhail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_ArdernReplies: @German_reader, @WHAT
Precisely because she is nothing. ZOG props her up and thus owns her completely, no need for child porn leverage even.
Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat as part of a campaign to ethnically cleanse people who had been living there for hundreds of years is not the same.
The reasons are not at all the same. Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).Replies: @utu, @AP
Poland is taking Ukrainian gastarbeiters and immigrants by millions w/o any gestures of contrition and atonements from Ukrainians for the Volhynia genocide. It is really hard to understand it.
There is a Ukrianian (diaspora) national hall not far from where I live where they sometimes host parties where both Ukrainian and Polish off the boaters come. So one can see Poles drinking in a hall with a portrait of Bandera hanging on the wall.Replies: @Mr. Hack
Beatings of said gastarbeiters are quite widespread though. Maybe it counts as atonement.
Gammas. LOL.
“Beatings of said gastarbeiters “ – not true.
The Syrian government is a supporter of secularism and protector of religious minorities, due to self-interest, but they also clearly define Syria as an Arab state.
Aside from the fact that it is in the formal name of the country (Syrian Arab Republic), before the civil war the government used to stamp out Kurdish identity, like all the neighbouring states, due to fear of separatism and a desire to Arabise the country.
People who are uncomfortable with honestly thinking in terms of pure utilitarian morality (actions decided on whether this benefits me) can also fool themselves into believing something noble that just happens to support their interests.
Aside from everything else, they really, really, hate hate hate Putin for things like Pussy Riot and the “law against proselytising homosexual propaganda” to minors.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Massacre_at_Drogheda.jpegReplies: @songbird, @LondonBob
I’m mystified by the recent spate of apologias for Cromwell. It must have something to do with “Wolf Hall”, but I suspect there must also be some political undercurrent. I’m not familiar with the book or TV show, but perhaps the hint would be there.
For American Jews at least, the Shoah is the core of their identity. How would it change if we separated it into religious and non-religious Jews? I have a suspicion that secular Jews would care a lot more about it, simply because they have nothing else.
There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it's of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don't understand the psychology of those people.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Denis, @Dmitry
It is because they are projecting their nationalist inclinations wrt their own countries onto Israel.
From the point of view of an uninformed westerner (especially in the Anglosphere), Israeli Jews are a group of white, pseudo-Christian people fighting a bunch of brown Muslims. Throughout the west, it is more-or-less socially unacceptable (for white people) to complain about non-white immigration, or to express any sentiment that could possibly be construed as racism; so, those who hold those sentiments but can’t express them properly project them onto Israel, since supporting Israel is perfectly acceptable. In doing so, they use Israel, which they imagine to be a semi-western, semi-Christian country, as a proxy for their own country. This is why they get as emotional as they do; they are (probably subconsciously) mentally substituting Israel and Israelis for their own countries and their own people.
It’s pretty retarded.
Shifting gears, for you auto buffs:
https://www.twelfthroundauto.com/best-motor-oil/
https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer
Scotty is hilarious.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
This is just an affiliate marketing site. It’s not like he’s actually testing or even reviewing the motor oil.
I’ve always used Mobil One.
- conventional
- 0-20
- blend
- high mileage (75, 000 and over) synthetic A more detailed venue:https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/On the subject of engine oil for cars, I'm of the view that as long as you put in the recommended weight and change within a reasoned time, there will be no problems, whatever you use: Amazon, Walmart, Mobil, Royal Purple..... This view excludes driving a car with regular temperatures at single digits and less. If the manual calls for full synthetic, then by all means use it.More important is the quality of the oil filter. Offhand, the Mobil extended life and Fram full synthetic filters seem like the best options. Royal Purple oil filters are considered as good if not better. Its price is noticeably higher when compared to the aforementioned other two which sell at Walmart for around $10.00.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
In reading postwar memoirs of Luftwaffe pilots the assessments of the VVS are generally quite poor compared to the RAF and USAAF with certain exceptions.
This isn't down to Russophobia either as assessments of the Red Army are generally positive (Tippelskirch and the Soviet zergling myth aside). P-38 and P-47 were limited to Mach 0.68 and Mach 0.71 respectively in maneuvering. P-51 Mustang was Mach 0.78. Bf 109 and Fw 190 were 0.75.
RAF test pilot Eric Brown on the the matter: It should be added that as a twin-engine aircraft the P-38 was inherently less maneuverable than single-engine fighters. This was irrelevant when it first appeared as it was the fastest airplane in the world, but as the war went on its speed was surpassed by single-engine fighters. Fortunately that was generally not the case in the Pacific.
The P-47 was simply too heavy. This did at least make it very rugged and a fast diver. Other than the lack of cannons it was well suited for the fighter-bomber role.
Other than the unloved (by the Americans) P-39/63 and P-38 all American fighters were also inadequately armed.
Which fighter you wish to take into battle of course depends on the battle. P-51D superiority was real for the 8th Air Force's mission. The Spitfire Mk XIV was arguably better than the P-51D, but it was short ranged and thus useless.
If the P-51D had been tasked with the same mission as the Luftwaffe's fighters, it would've fared poorly owing to its weak armament. Six .50cal BMGs were fine against fighters, but not four-engine bombers. Types other than the Ju-87 weren't capable of vertical dive bombing, nor did they have the Ju-87's automatic dive recovery capabilities. They also weren't fielded in land warfare, being naval bombers.
The ideal dive bomber for CS would've been something like the Boeing XF8B.
Hs-129 was useful as it carried a heavy cannon armament less awkwardly than the Ju-87G and also used engines not in demand elsewhere. That said, hardly an ideal type given its low performance. I wonder if the Me-410 would've been good in this role. Hit rates from the bomblets was also abysmal. Engine-mounted cannon solution was excellent, though it took time to mature. 30mm is I suppose relatively large caliber, but German aircraft with MK 108 cannons were used as fighters and bomber destroyers rather than in the close support role since it was a low velocity gun.
There was a high velocity 30mm cannon (MK 103), but the Germans were unable to get it to work in the motorkanone role as it was apparently too large for the DB605 engine. The Soviet attempt engine mount a 45mm cannon also failed.
50mm was indeed fitted to the Me-410 and also to the Me-262. I noted previously that the Me-410 might've done some good in the anti-armor role.
The Italians, British, and Japanese also all experimented with large caliber cannons in the anti-shipping role. Pz.38(t) was superior to PzKw II, though of course certainly not a medium tank.Replies: @Epigon
Regarding P-38 and P-47, you fell for a post-war propaganda effort.
P-38 having counter-turning propellers meant it could outturn every single-engine fighter in the right turn.
In addition, using differential throttle settings, P-38 flown by expert pilots (instructed by travelling advisers like Lindbergh) could outmaneuver even Japanese nimble fighters, the most maneuverable of the fighters employed in WW2 in “common knowledge”.
No, the Americans knew what they were doing in Pacific – the British pilot was given crappy export P-38 without turbosuperchargers, and suffers from common British illness of Spitfiremania.
And be certain that no fighter “maneuvered” at 0.75 Mach. This claim is very dubious by itself for P-47 – it was precisely P-47M which could threaten Me-262 via boom-and-zoom and shallow dive speed accumilation.
Also, P-47 operating as a fighter-bomber was an atrocity. It was designed as a high-altitude, long-range interceptor and escort fighter maximizing energy fighting. The complex and expensive turbosupercharger it carried (engineering achievement and masterpiece) that enabled it to outperform supercharged competition was literally deadweight at low altitudes.
Its fancy hydraulic control surfaces optimized for high-altitude, high-speed maneuvering was ill-suited for ground-level combat.
The thing was very expensive (almost twice the price of Mustang), armoured, resistant to damage (air cooled radials vs. liquid cooled inlines) and heavily armed.
Have a look yourself: https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/38801.html
Comments are goldmine as well.
https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/54434.html
Also, Yugoslavia had post-WW2 late Spitfires, Yaks and P-47. P-47 winner in 9/10 situations. It could outclimb opposition post 6000 m altitude, accumulate energy due to higher ceiling and better high-altitude performance, build up speed via shallow dive and then prey upon hapless opposition in mock fights.
The P-38 having counter-rotating propellers meant that a skilled, properly trained pilot could use differential thrust to escape a single-engine fighter. Useful capability which the Germans sure could've used on their twin-engine fighters. Not the same thing as being a highly maneuverable aircraft, hence why SWPA P-38 pilots in the 5th Air Force mainly exploited their tremendous advantage in speed and diving to use boom and zoom tactics.
Also, while not a knock on the P-38 itself, poor pilot training meant that differential thrust tactics were rarely used in the ETO.
http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html
Eric Brown was the world's best test pilot of that period and not prone to bias. He liked the Spitfire, but he was fair and considered the P-51 to be its equal. And liking Spitfires was not just a British position. Some of the RAF Eagle pilots that converted to the P-47 from the Spitfire initially hated the aircraft until they learned to exploit its virtues. Adolf Galland also famously told Goering during the Battle of Britain that he would like a squadron of Spitfires.
The Mach numbers in question related to maneuvering limits in a dive (obviously WW2-era fighters couldn't fly that fast in level flight) and were caused by compressibility in the transonic range. Since this relates to wing design and not the engines, it doesn't matter what kind of P-38 Brown was flying.
Regarding the engines, that was another problem with the P-38 in the ETO. The engines were known in the ETO as the "Allison time bomb". Bill Knudsen vetoed the effort to equip the P-38 with Merlins, and Allison for various reasons refused to improve the engine sufficiently.
The Spitfire also had a problem with compressibility (don't recall the limit) which is why the British designed the replacement Supermarine Spiteful.
The good news for the P-47 is that it didn't need to maneuver in a dive because it could dive faster than its opponents thanks to its great weight and R2800 engine.
The P-47 had a number of features intended for high altitude operation, but these didn't harm it at low altitude operation other than that they cost money. And actually hydraulically boosted flaps at low altitude might save your life. It's not like it had a specialized high altitude wing (e.g. as on the Ta-152).
You do bring up another reason for P-51 superiority however: it was cheaper and easier to maintain. Admittedly not relevant to the pilot in the cockpit, but certainly relevant to the USAAF.
I don't believe that a P-47 could outclimb a late mark Spitfire. Griffon-engined Spitfires, by simple physics, would obviously outclimb a P-47. I suppose past a certain altitude the P-47's turbocharger could've provided an edge over the Spitfire's two-speed supercharger. The Yak-3 obviously would've been shredded outside of a low altitude dogfight owing to its inferior engine.Replies: @Epigon
@ Anatoly:
If the rumours are true, then AMD will annouce their new mainstream/mid-end GPU “Navi” & the new Ryzen 3000 series on the May 1st. Depending on how agressive AMD goes with the price, it will force Intel’s & Nvidia’s hand. Retailers might start sell-off campaigns.
When you can wait until then, you might get your hand on some better performance/price-matrix.
That show is about Thomas Cromwell, not Oliver.
I am assuming that Songbird knew that, and was implying that the Cromwell "family" name had somehow been rehabilitated by the program.Replies: @LondonBob
I don't know if Oliver Cromwell was really very different from some men of his day or men who had previously invaded Ireland, like Edward the Bruce or Strongbow. Massacres were probably pretty common, like the Siege of Smerwick, during the Second Desmond Rebellion. Part of my family had a farm on top of a big medieval burial ground - seems to have been a village obliterated by Edward the Bruce and never rebuilt, but history is patchy. What is known is only that he passed by that way.
Still, I find the revisionism strange because it is not really about Cromwell but specifically about the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland. One contemporary estimate was that 40% of the population of Ireland was killed from war and induced famine. Whatever the true number, (some say only 20%), I can't help but think that there is some strange political motivation. Either a globalist attack on Irish identity, or else they appreciate his anticlerical activities.
Where I first heard it was actually on American public radio. Something I really abhor, but someone else was listening to it. On any given day, to hear it you would think it was communists, so it is easy to suspect some political dimension.
Aside from the fact that it is in the formal name of the country (Syrian Arab Republic), before the civil war the government used to stamp out Kurdish identity, like all the neighbouring states, due to fear of separatism and a desire to Arabise the country. People who are uncomfortable with honestly thinking in terms of pure utilitarian morality (actions decided on whether this benefits me) can also fool themselves into believing something noble that just happens to support their interests. Aside from everything else, they really, really, hate hate hate Putin for things like Pussy Riot and the "law against proselytising homosexual propaganda" to minors.Replies: @Dmitry
1. Pussy Riot – was a stupid repression. But it is not different than what Theresa May, or New Zealand, etc, are doing to politically incorrect people. If anything, Western European governments are all aligned with the Russian government in these topics.
And Russian government is significantly less repressive, than what e.g. Spain does to Catalan politicians and dissenters. Spain’s recent behaviour, is really repressive and anti-democratic, in a way Putin has not yet reached fortunately.
As for the “hate crime” prosecutions which are in countries like UK. This is very similar to Putin’s policies, but in some dimensions it could possibly be more extreme in Western Europe than in Russia.
In other words, these stupid cases and political prosecutions of people, there is not provided any special distinction between the Russian government and Western European governments. Both are equally bad in these topics.
The distinction is more between restricted free-speech of most of Europe (including many countries in Western Europe) and the free-speech absolutism of America.
2. “Law against proselytising homosexual propaganda” – is far less extreme, than the policy of many countries, which Western liberals do not concern with – whether we are talking about the whole of the Muslim world, or countries like India, China, etc, which are probably the same in this topic as Russia, and countries like Cuba, Bolivia and Venezuela, which will be much more repressive.
Also, Putin’s views on these topics are just aligning with typical opinion in the country, so there he is just being a representative politician in this area, not pushing any particular personal views.
Sexual minorities, of course, live better in the Russian Federation (in terms of sexual minority rights), than in the USSR.
During the Cold War, I’m not aware that America used the politics of sexual minorities to criticize the USSR, because the policies of the two countries were the same.
Western media has of course exaggerated the differences even today, in the typical histrionic way of journalists.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/cuba-removes-support-for-gay-marriage-in-new-constitution-after-protests
>>>>
You are correct in pointing out the blindspots and hypocrisy, but it is not as if they feel obliged to be consistent.
It is much easier simply to hate renegade white countries like Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy or whichever European country is next to go rogue.Replies: @Dmitry
There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it's of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don't understand the psychology of those people.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Denis, @Dmitry
Israel’s actual reality is painful, frustrating tolerance and liberalism anyway, where people who hate each other are forced to live together. And it’s one of the most multicultural and multi-religious countries, which is exactly what creates nationalist tensions and violence there. It’s a multiethnic nightmare – opposite of what voters actually want (homogeneous, conflictless, European countries, like Poland or Hungary).
To go back to Israel and AfD.
Israel’s main problem in external policy, is that it has very bad relations with most Muslim countries, and moderately bad one with liberal countries.
Israel’s diplomatic priority should be to improve its relationship with Muslim – within limitations of its being in conflict with Muslims.
That’s one of the most important things for Israel’s survival – to improve its relations with Muslim countries.
So Israel should definitely not try to create relationships with anti-Muslim European political parties, unless those parties are going to be influential in the government of their countries, preferably powerful countries.
As long as anti-Muslim parties are in the opposition, Israel will be idiots to be associated with them.
–
As a similar lesson – Russia should not associate with opposition political parties in Europe, anti-Muslim or pro-Muslim, unless they will actually win an election and become powerful. When Russian government officials were associating with political losers like Marine Le Pen, the effect was both bad for Marine Le Pen, and bad for Russian external policy (reducing its influence) in France.
There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them - he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren't monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome. It's unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those "Israel is a bulwark against Islamism" claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).Replies: @Anonymous, @LondonBob, @Dmitry
It's not unusual though, many Western politicians today have been professional politicans for their entire lives, it's a very important reason for the degeneration of our societies that our "elites" consist of useless parasites who would be nothing without their party machines and their patronage networks.
Also very disturbing that this woman has a Mormon background, something needs to be done to check the spread of that cult.Replies: @Dmitry
Degrees in politics and communication, may not be intellectually difficult to attain – but she at least completed the course, unlike Sebastian Kurz.
Both her Sebastian Kurz, have never had a job or profession though. But she has a university qualification, which can be a test of having normal IQ and literacy. She has something on her CV under “Education”.
Her ascension to become the most powerful person in her country at 37 years old, is shocking. And even Sebastian Kurz becoming leader of Austria at 32 years is even more shocking.
But neither her nor Kurz, are from any elites, which is how it becomes even more difficult to understand.
They don’t study in prestigious schools, or have any important family. They never had jobs in their life. They have no academic or intellectual ability. They don’t have unusual personalities, or charisma, or original policies. And they reach the country’s highest position while they are 30s. (Kurz second highest position, while he was 20s). Lol wtf.
Obviously, Mormon beliefs are idiotic even by religious standards. But their external behaviour can be desirable. Salt Lake City, for example, is described as one of the best cities to live in America.
People often wring their hands about "professional politicians" (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).
There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.
Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.
German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird, @German_reader
To go back to Israel and AfD.
Israel's main problem in external policy, is that it has very bad relations with most Muslim countries, and moderately bad one with liberal countries.
Israel's diplomatic priority should be to improve its relationship with Muslim - within limitations of its being in conflict with Muslims.
That's one of the most important things for Israel's survival - to improve its relations with Muslim countries.
So Israel should definitely not try to create relationships with anti-Muslim European political parties, unless those parties are going to be influential in the government of their countries, preferably powerful countries.
As long as anti-Muslim parties are in the opposition, Israel will be idiots to be associated with them.
-
As a similar lesson - Russia should not associate with opposition political parties in Europe, anti-Muslim or pro-Muslim, unless they will actually win an election and become powerful. When Russian government officials were associating with political losers like Marine Le Pen, the effect was both bad for Marine Le Pen, and bad for Russian external policy (reducing its influence) in France.Replies: @German_reader
That’s not the point (I’d actually agree), the point is that Israeli representatives and spokesmen of Jewish organizations have gone out of their way to validate the view of AfD as an illegitimate party of Nazis that ought to be crushed.
There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them – he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren’t monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome.
It’s unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those “Israel is a bulwark against Islamism” claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).
But there is a difference. Pussy Riot are good people politically speaking while the UK arrests hateful people, so from their perspective there is a fundamental difference.
Which simply makes ordinary Russians complicit in Putin’s sins.
Cuba’s government is rather liberal:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/cuba-removes-support-for-gay-marriage-in-new-constitution-after-protests
>>>>
You are correct in pointing out the blindspots and hypocrisy, but it is not as if they feel obliged to be consistent.
It is much easier simply to hate renegade white countries like Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy or whichever European country is next to go rogue.
It is not so surprising for party machines to function like this, the surprising thing to me is their age.
There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them - he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren't monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome. It's unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those "Israel is a bulwark against Islamism" claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).Replies: @Anonymous, @LondonBob, @Dmitry
I think a distinction should be made between Israelis and American Jewish Zionists; they share common goals and work together, but their values are often very different (Israelis more pragmatic, conservative and “race realist,” American Jews more liberal, dreamy and idealistic). Also the relationship is very asymmetric (Israel depends to a large degree on American goodwill and support but has essentially nothing to offer America in return). Reading about the Blue and White Coalition, it seems to me they are basically offering Bibi’s policy but with symbolic and verbal concessions to American Jewish sensibilities (e.g. not palling around with Bolsonaro and Orban). The example you cite with AfD may be a similar dynamic: many Israelis may see AfD as sympathetic, but to associate with a fringe far-right German party is bad optics and may cost you American support, and as Dmitry points out is worthless from a strategic point of view.
The relationship between Israel and KSA is I think a good example of this dynamic: neither side can formally ally itself with the other, in fact they are still officially hostile (KSA bars not only Israeli passport holders but anybody with evidence of travel to Israel), but they still have similar goals and their respective leaders will work together behind the scenes when necessary.
I genuinely have no idea what the Israeli position on right-wing parties in Europe is, or even if they have a unified position. On the one hand these parties often have vague pro-Israel sentiments which is certainly better than the overtly pro-BDS position of a lot of the European left, but there is obviously a lot of negative historical baggage as well (has Marine Le Pen really renounced her father?). Is opposition to Muslim immigration to Europe a good thing or a bad thing for Israel? What about opposition to the EU? Whatever position they strike is sure to be one of pure self interest, but the calculation seems ambiguous. I agree with Dmitry that their pose is probably to remain on good terms with whomever is currently in power, and that they will try to avoid alienating the Americans (Chuck Schumer et al)
Tl; dr I think the Israelis themselves are mostly realpolitik, but their dependence on America forces them to pay lip service to American neoliberalism and utopianism
And it’s not like Le Pen was Hitler. He said some bad things about Jews.Replies: @Anonymous
I've always used Mobil One.Replies: @Mikhail
I’d like to see the specifics behind that rating as well, which varies by different categories for best oil:
– synthetic
– conventional
– 0-20
– blend
– high mileage (75, 000 and over) synthetic
A more detailed venue:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
On the subject of engine oil for cars, I’m of the view that as long as you put in the recommended weight and change within a reasoned time, there will be no problems, whatever you use: Amazon, Walmart, Mobil, Royal Purple….. This view excludes driving a car with regular temperatures at single digits and less.
If the manual calls for full synthetic, then by all means use it.
More important is the quality of the oil filter. Offhand, the Mobil extended life and Fram full synthetic filters seem like the best options. Royal Purple oil filters are considered as good if not better. Its price is noticeably higher when compared to the aforementioned other two which sell at Walmart for around $10.00.
Noteworthy the Israeli relationship with Russia versus the position taken by the likes of Engel and Schumer.
Supporting the alt-right wing parties in Europe is what Israel wants to do. They can’t let the left-wing parties fall in love with Muslims in particular to the point of being against Israel. At the same time Israel will be supporting flooding the Europe with Muslims and the alt-right partie job is to do the fanning of Islamophobia. If there is not enough of it few terrorist attacks can always be arranged. Israel needs a repository of nationalist like Anders Breivik or Brenton Tarrant to prod them to action when some pro-Muslim and anti-Israel politicians have to be called to their senses. This in turn helps the left-wing parties to crack down on racism, anti-Semitism and freedom of speech. It is a win win tactics for Israel. Israel is playing a game of creating conflicts, keeping up the tensions, divide et impera and then offering apparent solutions.
And all the while distracting world attention from what's going on in the "Occupied Territories".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/IsraeliSettlementGrowthLineGraph.png
This is a part of bigger game plan. For Putin the only road to Washington goes through Jerusalem and vice versa for Trump.
Perhaps they feel solidarity in their hatred of Russia, something that exists much more in the here-and-now, and this allows them to overcome historical enmities.
http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-awayAnd in 2010:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.htmlIt would have destroyed his popularity - Israel has its only ski resort there.Replies: @Anon, @DFH, @JL
Starting this year, there is now a direct flight between Tel Aviv and Sochi. The ski resorts there have been inundated with Israelis, to the extent that Hebrew will be, by far, the language you are most likely to hear after Russian. Sochi is, apparently, a superior substitute to the Alps; closer, cheaper, and Israelis don’t need a visa to visit Russia.
But the way Israel operates visa-free with Russia (Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, etc), is perhaps more bad than good.
They have an open visa regime. But then instead they operate "immigration control" in the airport with Russia/Ukraine/Belarus people, and they particularly deport Ukrainians.
In response, Ukraine started an airport war , and is doing the same to Israelis.
https://zn.ua/international/unizhennye-i-vozmuschennye-311939_.html
Really? That’s interesting. They need one to visit the US (although the reverse is not true).
I will say for now that the following come to mind as very good books
For a one volume political summary, that focuses on 1848-1861, I highly recommend 'The Impending Crisis' by historian by David Potter.
For a longer summary, I quite like William Freehling's two-volume book 'The Road to Disunion.' Freehling focuses on the development of secessionist politics in the South, with enough background info on the North to know what was going on there. He goes into extensive detail and depth on social aspects. You will learn about the many differences between the respective Southern states. Freehling is also rather a fun writer; Potter has lots of good anecdotes, and knows how to write a narrative with pace.
IIRC, Freehling's main argument, with which I mostly agreed, is that as white men began to become more egalitarian (towards themselves, that is, not towards other races/cultures - Jackson is a good example), the domestic elitism, so to speak, of slavery inevitably clashed with the larger political culture, including, to a surprisingly large degree, within the South itself.
David Detzer wrote a fine summary of the actual outbreak of the war - the Sumter crisis. It is called 'Allegiance.'
For a summary of the war itself, 'Battle Cry of Freedom' is, again, pretty good. I have to admit, though, I've mostly read specific topics from the war, and very few summary-type books.
Shelby Foote and Bruce Catton, again, were the classic popular Civil War writers of the mid 20th century. Being a Northerner (though I have rebels in the family tree), Catton's Michigan style is appealing to me more so than Foote. Foote was arguably a better writer, though.
There are copious memoirs from the war. Both armies were, in fact, highly literate. And the guys who could write were much better writers than today's average people.
Whatever you do, don't read Thomas DiLorenzo or Garry Wills. DiLorenzo is a pro-Confederate partisan, while Wills is the kind of guy who tries to interpret Lincoln as belonging to a kind of multicultural liberal tradition. They're both hacks, though DiLorenzo probably commits more sins offensive to the discipline of history.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Beckow
Thanks for the recommendations!
If it were only lip service, they wouldn’t be so active in denouncing parties like the AfD.
Yes, she has even kicked him out of the party. What else do Israelis want?
And it’s not like Le Pen was Hitler. He said some bad things about Jews.
* Israeli television program, seems more or less the same as Fox News on this topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amdtD6_JqLEReplies: @reiner Tor
It’s one thing to avoid association with AfD, it’s another to actively denounce it to the point of actively pressuring Jews who had slightly friendly contacts to it. Israelis do the latter.
Well, French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF, to Holocaust survivors in the US), and they were defeated countries not allies of Germany. So my guess is that Hungary is going to have to go a very long way to ingratiate itself with the US/Israel to avoid a massive settlement.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Grahamsno(G64)
I don’t think it’s possible to appease them to the point that they stop the lawsuit. After all, those participating in it probably don’t care enough for Israel to renounce their billion dollar claims. People are rarely fanatical enough about anything that they would be willing to renounce billion dollar claims for it. The lawsuit is just a fact of life like an earthquake.
Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach. When Belgium started issuing arrest warrants against people like Ariel Sharon, it was ridiculous. But America actually has the strength to make its courts the arbiters of justice about events which happened three quarters of a century ago in countries which the judges never saw (nor do they know particularly much about it from secondary sources), under circumstances unimaginable to them (or American legislators or law enforcement agencies), etc.
One would think it’s dangerous for Jews to push the holocaust reparations issue any further at this point, but they don’t seem to care. Maybe they think they can pull it off forever. Or at least for several decades into the future. The latter seems certainly likely.
Do you mean something like this?
After Supreme Court Decision, Iran Still Owes $53 Billion in Unpaid U.S. Court Judgments to American Victims of Iranian Terrorism
U.S. Court Fines Iran 10.5 Billion Dollars for Backing 9/11 Terrorist Attackers
US judge: Iran must pay $6bn to victims of 9/11 attacks
Or perhaps like this?
UK Effort to Donate Piano to Cuba Runs Afoul of US Blockade
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Massacre_at_Drogheda.jpegReplies: @songbird, @LondonBob
Obviously you aren’t aware of what happened when fortified position were stormed, see Badajoz. Any actual examples where Cromwell committed atrocities or is that it?
There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them - he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren't monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome. It's unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those "Israel is a bulwark against Islamism" claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).Replies: @Anonymous, @LondonBob, @Dmitry
Don’t Afd have relations with Pamela Geller and the dark zionist money coming from the US to ensure any nationalist movement doesn’t go the wrong way? Normally they obsess about Muslims but stay silent on immigration from Africa like Tommy Robinson.
On the other hand, you've got people in AfD or AfD's orbit who think it's a good idea to criticise Merkel and other members of her government for not being deferential enough to Trump and the US or supposedly selling out Israel's security to evil Iran.
The basic problem imo is that even among "alternative" media outlets (which in fact are often critical or hostile to AfD, but are nonetheless read by many AfD voters, because there's not much else) you've got a lot of pro-Zionist pieces which present a rather selective picture of the facts. One of those sites Tichy's Einblick is basically running at least one such piece every week, repeating all the propaganda lines (Iran is building nuclear weapons and threatening peaceful Israel and the good Muslims of the Gulf states). Another site Achse des Guten is strongly influenced by Henryk M. Broder, a son of Holocaust survivors (whose sentiments are predictably anti-German, if you look closely enough, which many people don't do), who was a strong cheerleader of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (basically you were just an unreconstructed Nazi if you didn't agree with the invasion) and is also constantly warning about Iran. Unfortunately many people are unable to shake off their conditioning and uncritically swallow those arguments, attacking Merkel (who in general has been absolutely disastrous) for one of the few issues (the Iran nuclear deal) where her stance is actually defensible imo.Replies: @utu
It’s not the same since Cromwell condoned massacres at Drogheda, Wellington did not at Badajoz.
That show is about Thomas Cromwell, not Oliver.
I am assuming that Songbird knew that, and was implying that the Cromwell “family” name had somehow been rehabilitated by the program.
Projection. See:
In reality, people usually find it easier to believe what is good for them or which is compatible with their other beliefs. In my experience Jews (and, to be honest, other highly committed nationalists – I have noticed similar things with Hungarian nationalists) often cannot imagine that what is good for them can be neutral or even negative for any universalistic metric.
So Jews will not even notice that there is a difference between a Jew who explicitly argues that multiculturalism is good because it’s good for the Jews and a gentile white who argues that it’s good because it’s morally good. Interestingly, even you didn’t notice it. Contrary to your assertion, those Jews are rarely cynical, because of course they also use universalistic moral arguments. They don’t even notice that the two are not the same, or that at least in theory there could be a contradiction.
You then mention confusion that their ideologies go against racial self-interest, and attribute this to their "stupidity" (you can re-read your post) or lack of conspiracy skills. I needn't add the obvious fact, that Bolshevik Jews were still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, because and to the extent they were still Bolsheviks. Marx, himself wanted Jews to dissolve as a separate nationality, and believed the end of capitalism will make "Jews impossible".
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htmReplies: @reiner Tor
Israel is playing a game of creating conflicts, keeping up the tensions, divide et impera and then offering apparent solutions.
And all the while distracting world attention from what’s going on in the “Occupied Territories”.
Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach. When Belgium started issuing arrest warrants against people like Ariel Sharon, it was ridiculous. But America actually has the strength to make its courts the arbiters of justice about events which happened three quarters of a century ago in countries which the judges never saw (nor do they know particularly much about it from secondary sources), under circumstances unimaginable to them (or American legislators or law enforcement agencies), etc.
One would think it’s dangerous for Jews to push the holocaust reparations issue any further at this point, but they don’t seem to care. Maybe they think they can pull it off forever. Or at least for several decades into the future. The latter seems certainly likely.Replies: @LondonBob, @for-the-record
Hungary should start suing Israel for Communism.
Well after the appalling massacres of English and Scottish settlers in the Irish uprising there was always likely to be a reaction, an element missing at Badajoz. Still no other examples? Cromwell actually enforced strict punishment for stealing when the New Model Army campaigned in Ireland.
Related through Thomas Cromwell’s sister who was Oliver’s grandmother, or something along those lines. The maternal name was adopted as it was beneficial to be associated with Thomas.
I am assuming that Songbird knew that, and was implying that the Cromwell "family" name had somehow been rehabilitated by the program.Replies: @LondonBob
It was already rehabilitated a long time ago, the Cromwell statue was erected around 1900 outside Parliament.
Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach. When Belgium started issuing arrest warrants against people like Ariel Sharon, it was ridiculous. But America actually has the strength to make its courts the arbiters of justice about events which happened three quarters of a century ago in countries which the judges never saw (nor do they know particularly much about it from secondary sources), under circumstances unimaginable to them (or American legislators or law enforcement agencies), etc.
One would think it’s dangerous for Jews to push the holocaust reparations issue any further at this point, but they don’t seem to care. Maybe they think they can pull it off forever. Or at least for several decades into the future. The latter seems certainly likely.Replies: @LondonBob, @for-the-record
Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach.
Do you mean something like this?
After Supreme Court Decision, Iran Still Owes $53 Billion in Unpaid U.S. Court Judgments to American Victims of Iranian Terrorism
U.S. Court Fines Iran 10.5 Billion Dollars for Backing 9/11 Terrorist Attackers
US judge: Iran must pay $6bn to victims of 9/11 attacks
Or perhaps like this?
UK Effort to Donate Piano to Cuba Runs Afoul of US Blockade
No idea. My impression is there are several wings in AfD (also true for other matters). You’ve got people who are basically thinking along the same lines common here (e.g. Assad and Russia are good because they’re killing jihadis, Israel and the US are hypocrites who secretly support them).
On the other hand, you’ve got people in AfD or AfD’s orbit who think it’s a good idea to criticise Merkel and other members of her government for not being deferential enough to Trump and the US or supposedly selling out Israel’s security to evil Iran.
The basic problem imo is that even among “alternative” media outlets (which in fact are often critical or hostile to AfD, but are nonetheless read by many AfD voters, because there’s not much else) you’ve got a lot of pro-Zionist pieces which present a rather selective picture of the facts. One of those sites Tichy’s Einblick is basically running at least one such piece every week, repeating all the propaganda lines (Iran is building nuclear weapons and threatening peaceful Israel and the good Muslims of the Gulf states). Another site Achse des Guten is strongly influenced by Henryk M. Broder, a son of Holocaust survivors (whose sentiments are predictably anti-German, if you look closely enough, which many people don’t do), who was a strong cheerleader of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (basically you were just an unreconstructed Nazi if you didn’t agree with the invasion) and is also constantly warning about Iran. Unfortunately many people are unable to shake off their conditioning and uncritically swallow those arguments, attacking Merkel (who in general has been absolutely disastrous) for one of the few issues (the Iran nuclear deal) where her stance is actually defensible imo.
On the other hand, you've got people in AfD or AfD's orbit who think it's a good idea to criticise Merkel and other members of her government for not being deferential enough to Trump and the US or supposedly selling out Israel's security to evil Iran.
The basic problem imo is that even among "alternative" media outlets (which in fact are often critical or hostile to AfD, but are nonetheless read by many AfD voters, because there's not much else) you've got a lot of pro-Zionist pieces which present a rather selective picture of the facts. One of those sites Tichy's Einblick is basically running at least one such piece every week, repeating all the propaganda lines (Iran is building nuclear weapons and threatening peaceful Israel and the good Muslims of the Gulf states). Another site Achse des Guten is strongly influenced by Henryk M. Broder, a son of Holocaust survivors (whose sentiments are predictably anti-German, if you look closely enough, which many people don't do), who was a strong cheerleader of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (basically you were just an unreconstructed Nazi if you didn't agree with the invasion) and is also constantly warning about Iran. Unfortunately many people are unable to shake off their conditioning and uncritically swallow those arguments, attacking Merkel (who in general has been absolutely disastrous) for one of the few issues (the Iran nuclear deal) where her stance is actually defensible imo.Replies: @utu
But tbh, I don't have a problem with Islamophobia in principle. I'm an Islamophobe myself. And Merkel's policy really has been disastrous and will lead to Germany's destruction. She is undoubtedly one of the worst figures in German history.Replies: @utu, @Grahamsno(G64)
I know, I’m wary of those people.
But tbh, I don’t have a problem with Islamophobia in principle. I’m an Islamophobe myself. And Merkel’s policy really has been disastrous and will lead to Germany’s destruction. She is undoubtedly one of the worst figures in German history.
Allowing Muslim mass migration to any non Muslim society is literally suicidally stupid.
New evidence, perhaps, that would finally confirm the charge of collusion in the 2016 US Presidential election:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/23/in-ukraine-presidential-vote-joker-wild.html
Excerpt -
Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat as part of a campaign to ethnically cleanse people who had been living there for hundreds of years is not the same.
The reasons are not at all the same. Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).Replies: @utu, @AP
Sure. UPA wasn’t even trying to invade Poland.
The Polish state had been occupying Ukrainian lands. It invaded and conquered them in 1918-1919. So that was how the aggression started.
Incinerating them as was done by Angl0-American bombers to German and Japanese civilians was better?
Anglo-Americans burned alive 100,000s of civilians hundreds or thousands of miles from their own home territory, to make their invasion of those lands easier. Ukrainian peasants organized by UPA massacred 60,000-100,000 civilians in an attmept to prevent their home territory from being occupied by a foreign state.
Not a Ukrianian nationalist, nor were any of my ancestors OUN or UPA members.
Let me guess: as an Englishmen you have come to see these Ukrainians as being like the Irish.
Also, I'm really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians (including members of my more distant family) - thugs which sometimes sent letters assuring civilians that they are safe and that they do not need to escape, only to attack them later. Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.Replies: @utu, @AP
How so? Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this wuld even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.
No, for diaspora the UPA were heroes and the crimes didn’t happen.
Sure. I condemn what UPA did and hope I did not give the opposite impression. I’ll repeat what I wrote to utu:
Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.
Many Poles realize what their governemnt did in Ukraine in the 1920s and 1930s was also shameful (f not nearly as bad as what UPA did) and thus prefer not to bring up the mid 20th century mess at all.
There is a Ukrianian (diaspora) national hall not far from where I live where they sometimes host parties where both Ukrainian and Polish off the boaters come. So one can see Poles drinking in a hall with a portrait of Bandera hanging on the wall.
And it’s not like Le Pen was Hitler. He said some bad things about Jews.Replies: @Anonymous
How energetic has Israel really been in denouncing AfD? Google isn’t showing me a ton. I see that some wings of Afd are pushing to outlaw male circumcision and kosher slaughterhouses. Even if one supports these positions (and yes I understand that they are primarily directed at Muslims) it’s not hard to see why many Jews would take a dim view of a party that seriously entertained them. Regardless I don’t think Israel is responsible in any significant way for the failures of the AfD.
Comments like Le Pen’s are just that, comments, not binding decrees with the force of law, but as with e.g. the recent Israeli comments about Poland they are insensitive and ill advised (to say the least).
I think there was direct flight between Sochi and Tel Aviv since 2014?
But the way Israel operates visa-free with Russia (Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, etc), is perhaps more bad than good.
They have an open visa regime. But then instead they operate “immigration control” in the airport with Russia/Ukraine/Belarus people, and they particularly deport Ukrainians.
In response, Ukraine started an airport war , and is doing the same to Israelis.
https://zn.ua/international/unizhennye-i-vozmuschennye-311939_.html
So Jews will not even notice that there is a difference between a Jew who explicitly argues that multiculturalism is good because it’s good for the Jews and a gentile white who argues that it’s good because it’s morally good. Interestingly, even you didn’t notice it. Contrary to your assertion, those Jews are rarely cynical, because of course they also use universalistic moral arguments. They don’t even notice that the two are not the same, or that at least in theory there could be a contradiction.Replies: @Dmitry
Exactly – my point is your writings appeared autistic. The text appeared to be written by someone who has no understanding of the people he is assigning motives to (or people in general).
Therefore, the recent projections you made where you were calling people like myself, who didn’t share your political opinions, “autistic normies”. It is an interesting contradiction of terms, as “normies” is the term used by people with autistic spectrum disorders to refer to non-autistic people.
I think part of this is just reading too much “evolutionary psychology” books. But part of it is obviously a theory of mind.
Here you believe view that peoples’ ideologies are based in racial self-interest, and that this racial interest can result in complicated longterm conspiracies.
But then you are confused that Bolshevik Jews still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, when supporting USSR was not “aligned with Jewish racial interests”.
You then mention confusion that their ideologies go against racial self-interest, and attribute this to their “stupidity” (you can re-read your post) or lack of conspiracy skills.
I needn’t add the obvious fact, that Bolshevik Jews were still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, because and to the extent they were still Bolsheviks.
Marx, himself wanted Jews to dissolve as a separate nationality, and believed the end of capitalism will make “Jews impossible”.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm
Regarding the rest.
Obviously people tend to believe in things which are good for them. Minorities will believe that granting minority rights is morally superior to encouraging assimilation.
People will explicitly use such utilitarian arguments, even if they have no relevance to the question at hand. For example religious people will often cite the numerous studies about religious people being happier, with more children, lower suicide rates, etc. Hungarian leftists regularly use arguments that multiculturalism would be good for the Hungarian minorities, who would benefit from minority rights etc.
That’s not “cynicism.” People are not very self-aware, and they will sincerely believe in their ideologies. So poor people will sincerely believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they will slowly tend to a belief in the magical powers of low taxes and free markets. There will certainly be a lag: people will keep their beliefs longer than they serve them. But they tend to beliefs which serve them. (More idealistic people less so. It’s a tendency, a stochastic rule.)
Jews, of course, explicitly use the argument that multiculturalism is good for Jews. They will use it when arguing with non-Jews, which shows that they are not totally aware of the fact that it’s not really an argument, and for a gentile, it’s not even a fallacious pseudo-argument.
Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.
So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?
Anyway, Jews tend to move to ideologies which they perceive to be good for them. They perceive ideologies to be good for them if they were objectively good for them in the recent past. There is some delay in perception, and ideologies have some staying power for a long time even beyond that, especially among the more committed adherents.
I’m not sure it’s productive to continue this.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
Related:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/23/in-ukraine-presidential-vote-joker-wild.html
Excerpt –
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/cuba-removes-support-for-gay-marriage-in-new-constitution-after-protests
>>>>
You are correct in pointing out the blindspots and hypocrisy, but it is not as if they feel obliged to be consistent.
It is much easier simply to hate renegade white countries like Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy or whichever European country is next to go rogue.Replies: @Dmitry
Of course they have their subjective views.
But it’s still quite ridiculous and useful to look at. Pussy Riot were making some video in a church. And UK arrests people for vandalism in churches.
Sure one is right politically, and one liberal politically. One has physical damage, while the other is only damage atmosphere.
But the legal justifications in the courts of the two countries, will be very similar (church is some “holy” place, so it is as a worse than normal hooliganism).
In the case of Pussy Riot, of course Putin opposed the punishment, or believed it was too much.
But not when Fidel Castro, was there (and Castro is still “cool” with Western liberals – credit for Daily Beast that they at least challenge this contradiction).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fidel-castros-horrific-record-on-gay-rights
Orban claims to be in conflict with the Western liberal ideology (although this is partly just election campaigning, his actual policies are classical liberal).
It is understandable for Western anti-racists or liberals to hate Orban.
But Putin’s personal ideology is anti-racist and multinationalist. And then the “repressive laws”, are more or less the same as in many Western European countries. Lack of “free speech absolutism” is dividing America from Europe. But not Western Europe from Russia.
There’s a lot lost in translation, when our “centrist” and “moderate” politician is hated by their “centrist” supporting journalists and citizens.
There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them - he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren't monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome. It's unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those "Israel is a bulwark against Islamism" claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).Replies: @Anonymous, @LondonBob, @Dmitry
Saudi Arabia was paying for suicide bombers in Israel until early 2000s (they transferred $5000 for each Palestinian suicide bomb against Israel).
Obviously, it is a large improvement in Israel’s security, if Saudi Arabia moderates their view to it (Saudi Arabia was also supporting Chechens in the 1990s).
Payment of Saudi Arabia for suicide bombings in Israel was ended by Bush pressure after 9/11 (but America was complicit for Saudi support of Chechen terrorists).
In the case of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. It’s still politically impossible, for Saudi Arabia to be actually normal relations with Israel – as their education system will have created a population hostile to Israel.
Saudi Arabia has friendly relations with America, Russia and UK, where they invest billions of dollars, buy weapons, or even their children to study. The relations with Israel are much more secret and they are more like the relations Israel has with Egypt or Jordan (where publicly they are very unfriendly, but privately friendly with the ruler).
There is a Ukrianian (diaspora) national hall not far from where I live where they sometimes host parties where both Ukrainian and Polish off the boaters come. So one can see Poles drinking in a hall with a portrait of Bandera hanging on the wall.Replies: @Mr. Hack
Ironically, I witnessed similar experiences in AZ where large prominent portraits of Bandera and Shukhevych adorned the local Ukrainian hallway. Finally, after some 30 years the portraits were taken down, as the local Polish community would often rent the hall for their own parties. Now, they have their own hall I am told, but the portraits of the two nationalists remain taken down. The ones of Shevchenko and Franko still remain on the walls. Nobody seems to care much, either way. 🙂
P-38 having counter-turning propellers meant it could outturn every single-engine fighter in the right turn.
In addition, using differential throttle settings, P-38 flown by expert pilots (instructed by travelling advisers like Lindbergh) could outmaneuver even Japanese nimble fighters, the most maneuverable of the fighters employed in WW2 in “common knowledge”.
No, the Americans knew what they were doing in Pacific - the British pilot was given crappy export P-38 without turbosuperchargers, and suffers from common British illness of Spitfiremania. And be certain that no fighter “maneuvered” at 0.75 Mach. This claim is very dubious by itself for P-47 - it was precisely P-47M which could threaten Me-262 via boom-and-zoom and shallow dive speed accumilation.Also, P-47 operating as a fighter-bomber was an atrocity. It was designed as a high-altitude, long-range interceptor and escort fighter maximizing energy fighting. The complex and expensive turbosupercharger it carried (engineering achievement and masterpiece) that enabled it to outperform supercharged competition was literally deadweight at low altitudes. Its fancy hydraulic control surfaces optimized for high-altitude, high-speed maneuvering was ill-suited for ground-level combat.The thing was very expensive (almost twice the price of Mustang), armoured, resistant to damage (air cooled radials vs. liquid cooled inlines) and heavily armed.Have a look yourself: https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/38801.htmlComments are goldmine as well.https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/54434.htmlAlso, Yugoslavia had post-WW2 late Spitfires, Yaks and P-47. P-47 winner in 9/10 situations. It could outclimb opposition post 6000 m altitude, accumulate energy due to higher ceiling and better high-altitude performance, build up speed via shallow dive and then prey upon hapless opposition in mock fights.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Those links are a great trip down memory lane and have a lot of excellent material, but I compared the P-51’s range to the Spitfire. In fact P-47s were more important than P-51s during the Big Week that broke the Luftwaffe.
The P-38 having counter-rotating propellers meant that a skilled, properly trained pilot could use differential thrust to escape a single-engine fighter. Useful capability which the Germans sure could’ve used on their twin-engine fighters. Not the same thing as being a highly maneuverable aircraft, hence why SWPA P-38 pilots in the 5th Air Force mainly exploited their tremendous advantage in speed and diving to use boom and zoom tactics.
Also, while not a knock on the P-38 itself, poor pilot training meant that differential thrust tactics were rarely used in the ETO.
http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html
Eric Brown was the world’s best test pilot of that period and not prone to bias. He liked the Spitfire, but he was fair and considered the P-51 to be its equal. And liking Spitfires was not just a British position. Some of the RAF Eagle pilots that converted to the P-47 from the Spitfire initially hated the aircraft until they learned to exploit its virtues. Adolf Galland also famously told Goering during the Battle of Britain that he would like a squadron of Spitfires.
The Mach numbers in question related to maneuvering limits in a dive (obviously WW2-era fighters couldn’t fly that fast in level flight) and were caused by compressibility in the transonic range. Since this relates to wing design and not the engines, it doesn’t matter what kind of P-38 Brown was flying.
Regarding the engines, that was another problem with the P-38 in the ETO. The engines were known in the ETO as the “Allison time bomb”. Bill Knudsen vetoed the effort to equip the P-38 with Merlins, and Allison for various reasons refused to improve the engine sufficiently.
The Spitfire also had a problem with compressibility (don’t recall the limit) which is why the British designed the replacement Supermarine Spiteful.
The good news for the P-47 is that it didn’t need to maneuver in a dive because it could dive faster than its opponents thanks to its great weight and R2800 engine.
The P-47 had a number of features intended for high altitude operation, but these didn’t harm it at low altitude operation other than that they cost money. And actually hydraulically boosted flaps at low altitude might save your life. It’s not like it had a specialized high altitude wing (e.g. as on the Ta-152).
You do bring up another reason for P-51 superiority however: it was cheaper and easier to maintain. Admittedly not relevant to the pilot in the cockpit, but certainly relevant to the USAAF.
I don’t believe that a P-47 could outclimb a late mark Spitfire. Griffon-engined Spitfires, by simple physics, would obviously outclimb a P-47. I suppose past a certain altitude the P-47’s turbocharger could’ve provided an edge over the Spitfire’s two-speed supercharger. The Yak-3 obviously would’ve been shredded outside of a low altitude dogfight owing to its inferior engine.
P-47 was the fastest diving piston engine fighter of WW2, and P-47J and P-47M were fastest piston engine aircraft of WW2.
As I have already told you, P-47 was better suited for fighting Me-262 than P-51 was.Regarding Allisons, V-1710 could be worked to 2500+ HP from 28 litres working volume more reliably than DB605’s 1500 from 35 litres.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
In Ukraine, from official levels, most from Yushchenko, they have been rehabilitating all these people, and for recent generation who were in school, it seems they are unaware of any problems in this history of their glorious heroes.
Poland’s education system probably teaches – more accurately – the opposite.
So now the stupidly inevitable results
Politics is a job. By that standard Kurz is qualified–he has shown a consistent ability to win elections and has worked in politics for his whole adult life.
People often wring their hands about “professional politicians” (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).
There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.
Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.
German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_G._MaeserBut I think Mormons, are mainly only being suppressed or arrested in Russia (Jehovah Witnesses are suppressed in many other countries though, not just Russia). And in Russia, there is actually now religious toleration. I even see Hare Krishna people quite a lot in public in the city where my parents live, and no-one arrests them, even though they are quite noisy. So why are missionaries of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, often arrested? I suspect the authorities have seen some evidence of a connection to the CIA or State Department, at least in relation to their missionary activity in Russia.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
Probably, the best solution would be to end universal sufferage, though I have heard some speak favorably of having a political draft.
Bismarck could have lived well as an estate-owner without ever entering politics, he also had experience in the diplomatic service. The mediocrities dominating party politics today are rather different imo.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
- conventional
- 0-20
- blend
- high mileage (75, 000 and over) synthetic A more detailed venue:https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/On the subject of engine oil for cars, I'm of the view that as long as you put in the recommended weight and change within a reasoned time, there will be no problems, whatever you use: Amazon, Walmart, Mobil, Royal Purple..... This view excludes driving a car with regular temperatures at single digits and less. If the manual calls for full synthetic, then by all means use it.More important is the quality of the oil filter. Offhand, the Mobil extended life and Fram full synthetic filters seem like the best options. Royal Purple oil filters are considered as good if not better. Its price is noticeably higher when compared to the aforementioned other two which sell at Walmart for around $10.00.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
I think your view is correct, but given that engine oil is not expensive it gives me peace of mind to purchase the best.
People often wring their hands about "professional politicians" (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).
There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.
Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.
German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird, @German_reader
Skills learning in the jobs and profession, can be extremely definitive of, and useful for, political leader.
For Putin – counterintelligence. For Reagan – Hollywood acting. For Obama -community organizing. In the case of Merkel – “quantum chemistry”,
Merkel’s work in quantum chemistry, perhaps unfortunately, abstracted her mind completely from the normal world.
And their compatriot founded Brigham Young University – perhaps another reason for collective self-punishment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_G._Maeser
But I think Mormons, are mainly only being suppressed or arrested in Russia (Jehovah Witnesses are suppressed in many other countries though, not just Russia).
And in Russia, there is actually now religious toleration. I even see Hare Krishna people quite a lot in public in the city where my parents live, and no-one arrests them, even though they are quite noisy.
So why are missionaries of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, often arrested? I suspect the authorities have seen some evidence of a connection to the CIA or State Department, at least in relation to their missionary activity in Russia.
And some skills turn out not to be terribly relevant to politics anyway.
That said I am a fan of developing many skills. Scott Adams calls this the "talent stack". It's generally more useful than becoming a specialist, unless you are the world's best specialist in your specialty.
But these skills can be developed in many ways other than so-called "education" or one's nominal job. While Donald Trump was a real estate developer, for whatever reason he chose to become a skilled celebrity and media personality. This then led to a lucrative second career and followed by success in politics.
George W Bush, while he grew up in a political family, apparently developed no skills of any kind as a young man--other than excellent social skills. Then in his middle age he became a successful politician, no doubt aided by his lifelong cultivation of social skills.
People are hoping for some kind of a background that produces philosopher kings, but I don't believe there is such a background. Reagan and Obama here were simply developing political skills. Acting is obviously useful for a politician, and community organizing is politics.
Counterintelligence is not politics but is obviously useful in politics, and it's useful for a national leader. Fortunate for Russia.
As for Merkel's background, completely useless for politics or leadership. Perhaps has some relevance in setting policy for science funding.
Sweden's Prime Minister was a welder. That's a "real job". He's also a bad Prime Minister and a laughing stock.Replies: @Dmitry
I once heard it used as segway.
I don’t know if Oliver Cromwell was really very different from some men of his day or men who had previously invaded Ireland, like Edward the Bruce or Strongbow. Massacres were probably pretty common, like the Siege of Smerwick, during the Second Desmond Rebellion. Part of my family had a farm on top of a big medieval burial ground – seems to have been a village obliterated by Edward the Bruce and never rebuilt, but history is patchy. What is known is only that he passed by that way.
Still, I find the revisionism strange because it is not really about Cromwell but specifically about the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland. One contemporary estimate was that 40% of the population of Ireland was killed from war and induced famine. Whatever the true number, (some say only 20%), I can’t help but think that there is some strange political motivation. Either a globalist attack on Irish identity, or else they appreciate his anticlerical activities.
Where I first heard it was actually on American public radio. Something I really abhor, but someone else was listening to it. On any given day, to hear it you would think it was communists, so it is easy to suspect some political dimension.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_G._MaeserBut I think Mormons, are mainly only being suppressed or arrested in Russia (Jehovah Witnesses are suppressed in many other countries though, not just Russia). And in Russia, there is actually now religious toleration. I even see Hare Krishna people quite a lot in public in the city where my parents live, and no-one arrests them, even though they are quite noisy. So why are missionaries of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, often arrested? I suspect the authorities have seen some evidence of a connection to the CIA or State Department, at least in relation to their missionary activity in Russia.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
As you pointed out in your comments about the Irkut MC-21 program, there is always the opportunity cost.
And some skills turn out not to be terribly relevant to politics anyway.
That said I am a fan of developing many skills. Scott Adams calls this the “talent stack”. It’s generally more useful than becoming a specialist, unless you are the world’s best specialist in your specialty.
But these skills can be developed in many ways other than so-called “education” or one’s nominal job. While Donald Trump was a real estate developer, for whatever reason he chose to become a skilled celebrity and media personality. This then led to a lucrative second career and followed by success in politics.
George W Bush, while he grew up in a political family, apparently developed no skills of any kind as a young man–other than excellent social skills. Then in his middle age he became a successful politician, no doubt aided by his lifelong cultivation of social skills.
People are hoping for some kind of a background that produces philosopher kings, but I don’t believe there is such a background.
Reagan and Obama here were simply developing political skills. Acting is obviously useful for a politician, and community organizing is politics.
Counterintelligence is not politics but is obviously useful in politics, and it’s useful for a national leader. Fortunate for Russia.
As for Merkel’s background, completely useless for politics or leadership. Perhaps has some relevance in setting policy for science funding.
Sweden’s Prime Minister was a welder. That’s a “real job”. He’s also a bad Prime Minister and a laughing stock.
Romney, for example, has practical experience in business, which would be relevant for economy. Trump has practical experience in "deals" - or this is how he marketed himself. And - more uselessly - Merkel, has experience in "quantum chemistry", which means her brain was rewired for some years to have zero connection to everyday reality. A lot of President's job is a symbolic one, and this is where Reagan was excellently trained. You can see he looks like a real gentleman (or Hollywood actor's interpretation of a gentleman).
People often wring their hands about "professional politicians" (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).
There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.
Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.
German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird, @German_reader
I view New Hampshire, where state representatives are not given a salary, as being more functional and less corrupt than Massachusetts, where they are given a salary and pension. Of course, there are other factors, like demographics, and many of the most corrupt MA pols are also lawyers.
Probably, the best solution would be to end universal sufferage, though I have heard some speak favorably of having a political draft.
Let me guess: as an Englishmen you have come to see these Ukrainians as being like the Irish.Replies: @szopen
Come on. You are claiming that Poles who lived here for hundreds of years INVADED their own homes?
Also, I’m really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians (including members of my more distant family) – thugs which sometimes sent letters assuring civilians that they are safe and that they do not need to escape, only to attack them later. Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.
Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.
:::::::::::::::
Saying "X" is not as bad as "Y" does not mean saying "X" was all right. I agree. UPA murdered his wife and many of his followers.
But tbh, I don't have a problem with Islamophobia in principle. I'm an Islamophobe myself. And Merkel's policy really has been disastrous and will lead to Germany's destruction. She is undoubtedly one of the worst figures in German history.Replies: @utu, @Grahamsno(G64)
I do but I am willing to accept it if it would be helping to keep Europe Muslim free. So far it does not and the only outcome of Islamophobia is support of Israel.
In the West, people seem generally much more Islamophilic, and it's possible that contributes to anti-Israel views. So reducing Islamophilia, would reduce opposition to Israel. For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.
But in the Russian internet - at least popular websites I read - most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.
Yet most Russian people are not pro-Israel, despite general dislike of Mosques. And Russia has a friendly external policy with the Muslim world.
So Islamophobia is not any sufficient condition for being pro-Israel.
Also most Israelis are more liberal than people like me, and I'm more liberal than most people on the internet - so supporting Israel will not satisfy any real illiberal Islamophobia. (When they learn the reality of Israel, they will just become angry to see Israeli government has good relations with the rulers of a lot of Muslim countries, is full of mosques, and that Kadyrov is allowed to use - presumably federal tax money - to build mosques in Israel).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean
Also, I'm really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians (including members of my more distant family) - thugs which sometimes sent letters assuring civilians that they are safe and that they do not need to escape, only to attack them later. Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.Replies: @utu, @AP
The question is why Poland is letting millions of Ukrainians in? Why would Poles want to have somebody like AP as their neighbor? Volhynia genocide was the most disgusting crime of the WWII the way it was conducted. It was a mass orgy of wanton tortures and killings in which masses of regular country folks enthusiastically participated. And all you hear from them are excuses.
Also, I've been reading about Civil War in Mozambique and the methods the RENAMO was using to ensure cooperation from the locals (e.g. forcing people to kill their neighbours). Some of them were rather similar to UPA methods.Replies: @AP
Pointing this out is not making an excuse for them.
Massacres mainly happened in Volhynia. Some of Ukrainians there were actually helping Poles. UPA also murdered their own people who refused to cooperate. Hard to blame whole nation for the actions of the few. Of course, UPA glorification is disgusting, but somewhat understandable, given that UPA later was fighting against Soviets, and given there are not many other organizations from that period, and Ukraine is still a young nation.
Also, I’ve been reading about Civil War in Mozambique and the methods the RENAMO was using to ensure cooperation from the locals (e.g. forcing people to kill their neighbours). Some of them were rather similar to UPA methods.
In some ways it was similar to what Polish villagers had done 100 years earlier, though on a larger scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_slaughter
Peasants attacked the manor houses of the rebel noble leaders as well as of suspected rebel nobles and killed many hundreds of the estate owners and their families; about 90% of the manor houses in the Tarnów region are estimated to have been destroyed.[14] At least 470 manor houses were destroyed.[12] Estimates of the number of lives lost by Polish estate owners and officials range from 1,000 to 2,000.[9] Jezierski notes that most of the victims were not nobles (he estimates those constituted maybe about 200 of the fatalities) but their direct employees.[12] Most of the victims had no direct involvement with the Polish insurgents other than being a part of the same social class.[8] (Davies also notes that near Bochnia, Austrian officials were attacked by overzealous peasantry.[16]) Bideleux and Jeffries discuss the total number of victims noting that "more than two thousand lives were lost on both sides", which suggests that most of the victims were from among the Polish nobility.[5]
They were sawing off people's heads and doing things like that. This makes it somewhat more complicated. A lot of people joined UPA in 1945 or 1946 to fight the Soviets; these people had nothing to do with Polish massacres. Given the rate of attrition the UPA people involved in massacres in 1943-1944 were mostly killed off and the surviving UPA veterans are mostly the ones who joined later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_G._MaeserBut I think Mormons, are mainly only being suppressed or arrested in Russia (Jehovah Witnesses are suppressed in many other countries though, not just Russia). And in Russia, there is actually now religious toleration. I even see Hare Krishna people quite a lot in public in the city where my parents live, and no-one arrests them, even though they are quite noisy. So why are missionaries of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, often arrested? I suspect the authorities have seen some evidence of a connection to the CIA or State Department, at least in relation to their missionary activity in Russia.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
Acting allowed Reagan to get his gig as host of “General Electric Theater”, which became a long-running TV and radio show. As part of it, he toured 135 GE plants and made speeches in front of possibly 250,000 people or more. I think this was probably more important than his earlier movie career, but I suppose it is hard to separate them.
The P-38 having counter-rotating propellers meant that a skilled, properly trained pilot could use differential thrust to escape a single-engine fighter. Useful capability which the Germans sure could've used on their twin-engine fighters. Not the same thing as being a highly maneuverable aircraft, hence why SWPA P-38 pilots in the 5th Air Force mainly exploited their tremendous advantage in speed and diving to use boom and zoom tactics.
Also, while not a knock on the P-38 itself, poor pilot training meant that differential thrust tactics were rarely used in the ETO.
http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html
Eric Brown was the world's best test pilot of that period and not prone to bias. He liked the Spitfire, but he was fair and considered the P-51 to be its equal. And liking Spitfires was not just a British position. Some of the RAF Eagle pilots that converted to the P-47 from the Spitfire initially hated the aircraft until they learned to exploit its virtues. Adolf Galland also famously told Goering during the Battle of Britain that he would like a squadron of Spitfires.
The Mach numbers in question related to maneuvering limits in a dive (obviously WW2-era fighters couldn't fly that fast in level flight) and were caused by compressibility in the transonic range. Since this relates to wing design and not the engines, it doesn't matter what kind of P-38 Brown was flying.
Regarding the engines, that was another problem with the P-38 in the ETO. The engines were known in the ETO as the "Allison time bomb". Bill Knudsen vetoed the effort to equip the P-38 with Merlins, and Allison for various reasons refused to improve the engine sufficiently.
The Spitfire also had a problem with compressibility (don't recall the limit) which is why the British designed the replacement Supermarine Spiteful.
The good news for the P-47 is that it didn't need to maneuver in a dive because it could dive faster than its opponents thanks to its great weight and R2800 engine.
The P-47 had a number of features intended for high altitude operation, but these didn't harm it at low altitude operation other than that they cost money. And actually hydraulically boosted flaps at low altitude might save your life. It's not like it had a specialized high altitude wing (e.g. as on the Ta-152).
You do bring up another reason for P-51 superiority however: it was cheaper and easier to maintain. Admittedly not relevant to the pilot in the cockpit, but certainly relevant to the USAAF.
I don't believe that a P-47 could outclimb a late mark Spitfire. Griffon-engined Spitfires, by simple physics, would obviously outclimb a P-47. I suppose past a certain altitude the P-47's turbocharger could've provided an edge over the Spitfire's two-speed supercharger. The Yak-3 obviously would've been shredded outside of a low altitude dogfight owing to its inferior engine.Replies: @Epigon
Counterturning propellers negated gyroscopic forces, precession and P-factor – single-engine fighters had problem turning to one side. P-38 didn’t. The differential throttling was an ADDITIONAL technique P-38 experts could utilise.
Those Mach numbers you quoted are patently false.
P-47 was the fastest diving piston engine fighter of WW2, and P-47J and P-47M were fastest piston engine aircraft of WW2.
As I have already told you, P-47 was better suited for fighting Me-262 than P-51 was.
Regarding Allisons, V-1710 could be worked to 2500+ HP from 28 litres working volume more reliably than DB605’s 1500 from 35 litres.
It's not like the US was the only belligerent to field twin-engine fighters.
Army Air Forces report: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html I didn't dispute the P-47's high speed diving capability so I don't know why you're repeating that. Do you have evidence that the Mach numbers are false?
The XP-47J was not a service aircraft. The P-47M was extremely fast, tied with the Ta-152 if memory serves.
I compared the Allison to the Merlin, not the DB605. Since you are a P-38 fan you should be well aware of the "Allison time bomb" issue in the ETO.
If comparing American (or British) engines to German ones then the Germans get a handicap because they didn't have 145 octane avgas available.Replies: @Epigon
P-47 was the fastest diving piston engine fighter of WW2, and P-47J and P-47M were fastest piston engine aircraft of WW2.
As I have already told you, P-47 was better suited for fighting Me-262 than P-51 was.Regarding Allisons, V-1710 could be worked to 2500+ HP from 28 litres working volume more reliably than DB605’s 1500 from 35 litres.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
I hate to be a sourcefag but the idea of a large twin-engine fighter having a superior turn radius and instantaneous turn rate compared to single-engine fighters strikes me as extremely dubious. Do you have anything more detailed about this?
It’s not like the US was the only belligerent to field twin-engine fighters.
Army Air Forces report: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html
I didn’t dispute the P-47’s high speed diving capability so I don’t know why you’re repeating that. Do you have evidence that the Mach numbers are false?
The XP-47J was not a service aircraft. The P-47M was extremely fast, tied with the Ta-152 if memory serves.
I compared the Allison to the Merlin, not the DB605. Since you are a P-38 fan you should be well aware of the “Allison time bomb” issue in the ETO.
If comparing American (or British) engines to German ones then the Germans get a handicap because they didn’t have 145 octane avgas available.
P-47 could dive in excess of 500 mph and leave every single piston fighter behind them.
P-47M was faster than Ta-152.Regarding diving, it wasn’t just the final velocity - the immediate acceleration when engaging in maneuver was what counted - IIRC correctly P-51 had ~500 mph redline, while P-47 went beyond that. So, P-51D with its laminar flow wings and cleaner form might ultimately come close to max speed, but P-47 would be near its max dive speed sooner. It would also be more controllable at those speeds. Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable, but there is definitely something in them when P-47 pilots boasted they only had to lower the nose down, full throttle and be gone - German pilots recognized P-47 diving like a brick from them, while P-51 could be evaded in a Bf-109 and FW-190DAlso, regarding its turbosupercharger - it was dead weight at low altitudes, while the plane sacrificed a lot to have the ability to carry it - size, wing loading, payload, fuel capacity. Maneuvering at low altitudes with dense air was not the same as at high altitudes - energy bleeding in turns was different, control surface impact was different.I am aware of the abysmal performance of P-38s in the Mediterranean and ETO - there was a notorious incident where a green formation of P-38 (early type) were ambushed by Bf-109 Experten with altitude and speed advantage - something like 11 - 0 kill count in that battle.
The P-38 in Europe had terrible reliability and availability rates compared to Pacific - would be interesting to track engine serial number and origin.
However, this would actually be in accordance with the very steep learning curve and lopsided ratios of air combat - something like 10% of fighter pilots achieved 90% of all kills - my guess due to 3D nature of combat, need to predict opposition’s moves, react instantaneously and “feel” the plane and its weapons - deflection shooting was a craft.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Another important aspect isn’t overfilling, while frequently checking the fluid level. For several reasons, many modern engines consume oil. Overfilling is bad, as is not having enough.
It's not like the US was the only belligerent to field twin-engine fighters.
Army Air Forces report: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html I didn't dispute the P-47's high speed diving capability so I don't know why you're repeating that. Do you have evidence that the Mach numbers are false?
The XP-47J was not a service aircraft. The P-47M was extremely fast, tied with the Ta-152 if memory serves.
I compared the Allison to the Merlin, not the DB605. Since you are a P-38 fan you should be well aware of the "Allison time bomb" issue in the ETO.
If comparing American (or British) engines to German ones then the Germans get a handicap because they didn't have 145 octane avgas available.Replies: @Epigon
I would have to dig through books and documents I had read long time ago – but it is imprinted in my mind that in the Pacific P-38 aces exploited P-38 advantage in turning on one side to outperform even the nimble Japanese dogfighters.
You shouldn’t be too hard on dual-engined planes – take a look at Mosquito in its various outfits, including fighter, and it didn’t have the unique P-38 layout. Similarily, Pe-2 light bombers could successfuly maneuver and evade German fighters (empty, of course) – as has been noted. Generally, the key parameters to take into account are engine power (function of altitude), control surface area, and the “drag area” – not just the cross-section but airfoil layout and total surface.
I dispute the notion that P-47 was limited to Mach 0.71 during dive, or “maneuvering” as you initially stated.
P-47 could dive in excess of 500 mph and leave every single piston fighter behind them.
P-47M was faster than Ta-152.
Regarding diving, it wasn’t just the final velocity – the immediate acceleration when engaging in maneuver was what counted – IIRC correctly P-51 had ~500 mph redline, while P-47 went beyond that. So, P-51D with its laminar flow wings and cleaner form might ultimately come close to max speed, but P-47 would be near its max dive speed sooner. It would also be more controllable at those speeds. Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable, but there is definitely something in them when P-47 pilots boasted they only had to lower the nose down, full throttle and be gone – German pilots recognized P-47 diving like a brick from them, while P-51 could be evaded in a Bf-109 and FW-190D
Also, regarding its turbosupercharger – it was dead weight at low altitudes, while the plane sacrificed a lot to have the ability to carry it – size, wing loading, payload, fuel capacity. Maneuvering at low altitudes with dense air was not the same as at high altitudes – energy bleeding in turns was different, control surface impact was different.
I am aware of the abysmal performance of P-38s in the Mediterranean and ETO – there was a notorious incident where a green formation of P-38 (early type) were ambushed by Bf-109 Experten with altitude and speed advantage – something like 11 – 0 kill count in that battle.
The P-38 in Europe had terrible reliability and availability rates compared to Pacific – would be interesting to track engine serial number and origin.
However, this would actually be in accordance with the very steep learning curve and lopsided ratios of air combat – something like 10% of fighter pilots achieved 90% of all kills – my guess due to 3D nature of combat, need to predict opposition’s moves, react instantaneously and “feel” the plane and its weapons – deflection shooting was a craft.
To my knowledge they were not dogfighters.
The P-38 was a fine airplane, as was the Mosquito. Other great twins which missed the war were the F7F Tigercat and the Hornet (successor to the Mosquito).
A key parameter you're missing is weight, and by extension the power-to-weight and wing loading. Loss of controllability as aircraft entered the transonic range was a well known problem in the WW2 era. This led to aerodynamic innovations like thinner airfoils, swept wings, the all-moving tail, etc.
Not the same thing as being UNABLE to dive past a certain Mach number in which case many P-47s, Spitfires, P-38s, etc. would've simply broken up or whatever in any full power dive from altitude--something which obviously did not happen. A quick check on Wikipedia shows the Ta-152 as being one mile per hour slower. No question that the P-47 could dive faster than the P-51. Normally weight counts against an airplane's acceleration, but this is reversed in a dive. On top of that the P-47 had a 2,600 horsepower engine which far exceeded the P-51 (or any Luftwaffe fighter). The turbosupercharger was only dead weight at low altitudes in a hypothetical aircraft intended purely for low altitude operation. A turbosupercharger was capable of providing an appropriate amount of boost at all altitudes, which was not the case with a geared supercharger.
See this wartime General Electric pamphlet for more: http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/geturbo/geturbo.htm
"The turbosupercharger may be used to increase rated engine power at sea level, or to furnish "ground boost", as well as to maintain rated power at high altitude."
[...]
"No matter how many stages or different gear ratios are used, such a geared supercharger can never have the perfect flexibility of speed control of a turbosupercharger, and must always involve some waste of power when operating below the altitude for which it was designed. The speed of the turbosupercharger can be controlled to maintain desired conditions of carburetor-inlet pressure without regard to the engine speed."
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/images/_geturbo/ge_fig8.JPG
The P-38 after all, which had its greatest successes in the Pacific where most operations were at low altitude, was equipped with turbosupercharged engines.
The Germans planned to transition to turbosupercharged engines, but their development program failed owing to persistent shortages of the required high temperature alloys. Priority for these alloys understandably went to axial-flow turbojet engine development.
Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.Replies: @Denis
Finally, we agree on something! The treatment of the Germans by the allies during and after the second world war was atrocious. Not so sure about the Japanese, though, as they got off relatively light compared to the Germans, despite the terror bombings and the nuclear attacks.
His views seem to be rather idiosyncratic, I don't know if there are many other people who view things that way (pro-Polish on one WW-2 related issue, anti-Polish on another). But at least it's interesting to read.Replies: @AP, @Denis
AP has on numerous occasions justified Poland’s post-war annexations of German territory and the mass expulsions of Germans living there, iirc he used the same argument “It wasn’t as bad as the aerial bombing of the western allies”.
His views seem to be rather idiosyncratic, I don’t know if there are many other people who view things that way (pro-Polish on one WW-2 related issue, anti-Polish on another). But at least it’s interesting to read.
2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 - 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.
*The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the NazisReplies: @Denis, @Anatoly Karlin, @for-the-record
People often wring their hands about "professional politicians" (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).
There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.
Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.
German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird, @German_reader
The problem isn’t with people devoting their life to politics, but with parties making the state their prey through state funding for their party foundations and organizations etc. This creates a parasitic caste keen on defending its privileges at all costs, and also completely alienated from the life experiences of ordinary citizens, since they’ve never done anything but politics. Admittedly some of the alternatives (financing parties through donations of wealthy individuals) are also problematic.
Bismarck could have lived well as an estate-owner without ever entering politics, he also had experience in the diplomatic service. The mediocrities dominating party politics today are rather different imo.
A "statesman" as opposed to a politician is realistically someone who is so skilled at politics that he's able to stay in power long enough to do something on a grand scale rather than simply satisfy his particular faction/coalition.
Bismarck, of course, served at the pleasure of his liege lord which was fundamentally different than the situation today. But he was still forced to build coalitions in the Reichstag and Prussian Landtag, which he did in a number of unpleasant ways that today are no longer remember except through his famous quip about laws and sausage making.
A good example of this is how he got the Reichstag to create a very generous pension for the deposed King of Hanover but inserted conditions which gave him the control of these funds. This was then used as a gigantic political slush fund by him. Today such a scandal would likely result in a lengthy prison sentence.
What's exceptionally frustrating in politics is when the ostensible leaders of your faction have interests divorced from yours for whatever reason. That might be a newish development of postwar politics and is not exclusive to countries with public financing of parties and elections.
Alienation from the life experiences of ordinary citizens is perhaps dubious in labor parties but otherwise to be expected from national elites and not new.
There can be a connection between Islamophobia and pro-Israel, but it does not seem to match simply like you imply.
In the West, people seem generally much more Islamophilic, and it’s possible that contributes to anti-Israel views. So reducing Islamophilia, would reduce opposition to Israel. For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.
But in the Russian internet – at least popular websites I read – most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.
Yet most Russian people are not pro-Israel, despite general dislike of Mosques. And Russia has a friendly external policy with the Muslim world.
So Islamophobia is not any sufficient condition for being pro-Israel.
Also most Israelis are more liberal than people like me, and I’m more liberal than most people on the internet – so supporting Israel will not satisfy any real illiberal Islamophobia. (When they learn the reality of Israel, they will just become angry to see Israeli government has good relations with the rulers of a lot of Muslim countries, is full of mosques, and that Kadyrov is allowed to use – presumably federal tax money – to build mosques in Israel).
Less charitably there is also the fact that our comments are perhaps being collected by counterintelligence services.
https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.42.39-AM.pngTotal amount of upvotes would probably also be even higher if the deleted comments on Breitbart are included. https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.50.52-AM.pngProbably good that they aren't directly saying they deserved it, even though it might be a bit on the line anyway. There are lot of people getting arrested for being too enthusiastic and open about their opinions in places like the UK.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
His views seem to be rather idiosyncratic, I don't know if there are many other people who view things that way (pro-Polish on one WW-2 related issue, anti-Polish on another). But at least it's interesting to read.Replies: @AP, @Denis
1. Germany behaved much worse toward Poland than Poland did to Ukraine.
2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 – 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.
*The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the Nazis
I don't know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let's also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it's not like they'd have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.
In this sense, the UPA massacres aren't anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.Replies: @AP, @German_reader, @LondonBob
Dead or Missing in Flight and Expulsion
In the eastern territories of the German Reich 1,225,000
In Czechoslovakia 267,000
In other countries 619,000
TOTAL 2,111,000
Source: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, A Terrible Revenge, The Ethnic Cleansing of the East European Germans, 1944–1950 . De Zayas earlier treated the subject in a more scholarly work entitled Nemesis at Potsdam.
According to Wiki: "The death toll attributable to the flight and expulsions is disputed, with estimates ranging from 500,000-600,000[10] [11] and up to 2 to 2.5 million.[12][13][14]".
The victims were of course almost entirely women, children and the elderly.Replies: @German_reader
There are claims that 400 000-500 000 Germans were killed during the expulsions from the Oder-Neiße area which would be more than the number of those killed by allied bombing (estimated at around 300 000 German civilians by Richard Overy). I don’t know how plausible that is (it seems rather high, maybe exaggerated), but there certainly was a lot of extreme unpleasantness involved.
And the official Polish justification (that those territories were “recovered” and had always been fundamentally Slavic in nature) was of course absolute garbage, in its fundamental nature not totally different from Nazi claims that Germany was merely re-gathering ancient Germanic land.
But that’s not the point anyway…I have little desire to re-litigate an issue like the Polish-German border or the justice of post-war expulsions which is (or should be) irrelevant today. I just find it amusing how predictably tribal you always are in your judgements…despite your claims that you aren’t a nationalist, you always come up with elaborate justifications for everything your favorite nations/states (Ukraine, Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, Poland – probably in that order) have done. It’s especially amusing in the case of conflict between your favorites, like in the Polish-Ukrainian conflict during WW2.
Also, I'm really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians (including members of my more distant family) - thugs which sometimes sent letters assuring civilians that they are safe and that they do not need to escape, only to attack them later. Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.Replies: @utu, @AP
No, but the Polish state did, on their behalf and with their help. The Polish state between the wars was not, of course, genocidal and thus preventing its return was no excuse for the crimes committed by the Ukrainians.
I am not justifying their crimes but comparing them to other crimes of the same time and pointing out that other crimes had more dubious reasons and were conducted on a much larger scale. To repeat what I had written to utu:
Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.
My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.
:::::::::::::::
Saying “X” is not as bad as “Y” does not mean saying “X” was all right.
I agree. UPA murdered his wife and many of his followers.
2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 - 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.
*The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the NazisReplies: @Denis, @Anatoly Karlin, @for-the-record
In this case it obviously was, given that millions of Germans died during the ethnic cleansing against them in Eastern Europe.
So you think that people should be ethnically cleansed/killed based on how they vote? Good to know.
That wasn't clear enough for you? I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.Replies: @Denis, @Rattus Norwegius
His views seem to be rather idiosyncratic, I don't know if there are many other people who view things that way (pro-Polish on one WW-2 related issue, anti-Polish on another). But at least it's interesting to read.Replies: @AP, @Denis
Such a shame. I thought we (me and AP) had found some common ground.
It’s pretty ridiculous to argue that the bombings were crimes but the expulsions were not, given that the expulsion of the eastern Germans was pretty clearly genocidal.
And some skills turn out not to be terribly relevant to politics anyway.
That said I am a fan of developing many skills. Scott Adams calls this the "talent stack". It's generally more useful than becoming a specialist, unless you are the world's best specialist in your specialty.
But these skills can be developed in many ways other than so-called "education" or one's nominal job. While Donald Trump was a real estate developer, for whatever reason he chose to become a skilled celebrity and media personality. This then led to a lucrative second career and followed by success in politics.
George W Bush, while he grew up in a political family, apparently developed no skills of any kind as a young man--other than excellent social skills. Then in his middle age he became a successful politician, no doubt aided by his lifelong cultivation of social skills.
People are hoping for some kind of a background that produces philosopher kings, but I don't believe there is such a background. Reagan and Obama here were simply developing political skills. Acting is obviously useful for a politician, and community organizing is politics.
Counterintelligence is not politics but is obviously useful in politics, and it's useful for a national leader. Fortunate for Russia.
As for Merkel's background, completely useless for politics or leadership. Perhaps has some relevance in setting policy for science funding.
Sweden's Prime Minister was a welder. That's a "real job". He's also a bad Prime Minister and a laughing stock.Replies: @Dmitry
Well it’s good you talk about Plato, because this is who I was thinking about.
Democratic “political skills”, however, – does not imply “good for country skills”.
This is implied in the discussion of Plato – Republic, Book VI
Skillful politician, like people trained by sophists, becomes very good at understanding what the beast (masses) wants, and how to satisfy its next appetite, or appease it with nice words.
But desires of a mob, has often little relation to what is actually true or false.
With the professional politician, you have no more experience than an animal trainer’s, as their whole profession was related to pleasing the beast.
Why we want politician to have a real profession before, is that they might have some understanding of actual true and false, at least within their narrow sphere.
Romney, for example, has practical experience in business, which would be relevant for economy. Trump has practical experience in “deals” – or this is how he marketed himself.
And – more uselessly – Merkel, has experience in “quantum chemistry”, which means her brain was rewired for some years to have zero connection to everyday reality.
A lot of President’s job is a symbolic one, and this is where Reagan was excellently trained. You can see he looks like a real gentleman (or Hollywood actor’s interpretation of a gentleman).
Also, I've been reading about Civil War in Mozambique and the methods the RENAMO was using to ensure cooperation from the locals (e.g. forcing people to kill their neighbours). Some of them were rather similar to UPA methods.Replies: @AP
I generally agree with your comment but:
In Volhynia the massacres had a mass component to them – many, many villagers took part in the massacres. There was a lot of pent up hatred that was unleashed by a primitive population that had previously been demoralized by the Soviets and Nazis. The Polish government had been burning down Orthodox Churches in the 1930s and the villagers reacted as they would have in the 18th or 19th century.
In some ways it was similar to what Polish villagers had done 100 years earlier, though on a larger scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_slaughter
Peasants attacked the manor houses of the rebel noble leaders as well as of suspected rebel nobles and killed many hundreds of the estate owners and their families; about 90% of the manor houses in the Tarnów region are estimated to have been destroyed.[14] At least 470 manor houses were destroyed.[12] Estimates of the number of lives lost by Polish estate owners and officials range from 1,000 to 2,000.[9] Jezierski notes that most of the victims were not nobles (he estimates those constituted maybe about 200 of the fatalities) but their direct employees.[12] Most of the victims had no direct involvement with the Polish insurgents other than being a part of the same social class.[8] (Davies also notes that near Bochnia, Austrian officials were attacked by overzealous peasantry.[16]) Bideleux and Jeffries discuss the total number of victims noting that “more than two thousand lives were lost on both sides”, which suggests that most of the victims were from among the Polish nobility.[5]
They were sawing off people’s heads and doing things like that.
This makes it somewhat more complicated. A lot of people joined UPA in 1945 or 1946 to fight the Soviets; these people had nothing to do with Polish massacres. Given the rate of attrition the UPA people involved in massacres in 1943-1944 were mostly killed off and the surviving UPA veterans are mostly the ones who joined later.
2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 - 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.
*The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the NazisReplies: @Denis, @Anatoly Karlin, @for-the-record
To briefly wade into this swamp:
I don’t know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let’s also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it’s not like they’d have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.
In this sense, the UPA massacres aren’t anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.
The atom bomb over Japan was different because it actually stopped the war, thus sparing civilians. The terror-bombing of Germany was just senseless murder. I guess it was revenge for the Brits, as if that makes killing innocent people justifiable, but what did Germany do to America?
UPA was operating on its own territory and killing people in order to prevent their victim's state from coming back to their lands. Also not justifiable (see my other comments) but certainly no less justifiable than what the American and British "heroes" were up to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-44255399
Going back to inhabitants and garrisons being slaughtered after a siege this would act as an incentive to surrender. The rules of war were that is was entirely honourable to surrender when the defender's position had become untenable. See the surrender of Fort William Henry in The Last of the Mohicans.Replies: @German_reader
I wrote: “while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them”
That wasn’t clear enough for you?
I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.
While it is true that most of the territory that Germany lost following WW2 voted were more supportive of the Nazi party, than the German average, not every German in those areas voted for the Nazi party.
The reason that those areas were taken, was not that they had voted for the Nazi party. it was simply more practical to expand in those geographic areas.Replies: @AP
I don't know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let's also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it's not like they'd have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.
In this sense, the UPA massacres aren't anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.Replies: @AP, @German_reader, @LondonBob
The Western allies deliberately targeted German residential areas. It was just pure civilian-killing.
The atom bomb over Japan was different because it actually stopped the war, thus sparing civilians. The terror-bombing of Germany was just senseless murder. I guess it was revenge for the Brits, as if that makes killing innocent people justifiable, but what did Germany do to America?
UPA was operating on its own territory and killing people in order to prevent their victim’s state from coming back to their lands. Also not justifiable (see my other comments) but certainly no less justifiable than what the American and British “heroes” were up to.
The expulsions used criminal methods but expulsion itself was not a crime, whereas the bombings were purely criminal.
As for the allied bombing campaigns, I agree with AK.
LOL, my best friend and godfather to one of my kids is a Pole, whose aunt was murdered by UPA. Our peoples generally get along okay 🙂
Soviets, Nazis, Ustase, were all worse.
While the crimes were inexcusable, they did not occur without causes. Nor were they unique.
Pointing this out is not making an excuse for them.
Yes Karlin talked about that Chinese survey. Reaction of Chinese internets, sounds like a more moderate version of Russian internet’s reaction to the New Zealand story.
At least in the website forums I go to, most people supported the Mosque attack. I was a little shocked by the extent of the illiberal attitude of commentators to this story last week. (I don’t know if it’s just the websites I visit? If someone knows a different internet reaction?).
It was an example of internet culture clash on this topic. On this story, English internet felt suddenly like a different culture (with a more mature attitude),- almost all in the English internet forums like here was condemning the attack.
I don't know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let's also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it's not like they'd have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.
In this sense, the UPA massacres aren't anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.Replies: @AP, @German_reader, @LondonBob
It’s seen as a big deal not least because so much of it was close to the end of the war in late 1944/early 1945, with some cities like Würzburg being bombed to rubble just days before allied troops entered them. Despite what defenders of specific bombings like Dresden claim, there’s no way those bombings were dictated purely by military necessity, to a large extent it was simply vengeance, which is generally seen as a base motive.
There’s an element of truth to that, the British public certainly had few reasons to be opposed to bombing of Germany after the German bombing of Britain in 1940/41 (it’s all the more remarkable that there was some opposition and controversy even during the war, e.g. Bishop Bell), and of course it’s true that Germany lacked good four-engined bombers which has to be considered in any comparison. It’s also true however that the policy of the RAF was the most extreme of all air forces in the European theater, with indiscriminate destruction of urban areas and the killing of large numbers of civilians not just a byproduct of deficient technology, but from 1942 at the latest the explicit goal of attacks. This was different both from what the Americans (in Europe) and the Luftwaffe did. And it wasn’t just a reaction to prior German actions as is often claimed, but to a significant extent an outgrowth of pre-war RAF doctrine.
It wasn't until well into 1942 that Britain adopted "dehousing" and area bombing as official doctrine of Bomber Command. This largely emerged in response to the wild inaccuracy of night bombing, which itself was an improvisation in response to the fact that daylight raids into occupied Europe resulted in unacceptably high attrition.
Early in the war all the belligerents largely abided by President Roosevelt's request to limit bombing to military targets, and even attacking civilian industrial targets in Germany was not permitted (against the wishes of Bomber Command) until the Rotterdam Blitz.
Germany for its part didn't initiate large scale bombing of civilian areas (Rotterdam was not intended) until the British bombed Berlin.
There was actually a very good German heavy bomber (Heinkel 177 Greif), but it was not produced in substantial numbers and had significant teething problems owing to the failure of German high output aero engine development. These failures were themselves the outgrowth of doctrine (heavy bomber was not a priority) and then the exigencies of war (close support and interdiction on the Eastern Front, fighter defenses for the Reich).
America did refuse to switch to "area bombing", but shouldn't be considered as some kind of humane strategic bombing force. Only the lead bomber used precision targeting, as all other bombers had to fly in defensive box organizations for protection from German fighters. The weather was frequently overcast as well, which obviously precluded visual target identification.Replies: @German_reader
That wasn't clear enough for you? I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.Replies: @Denis, @Rattus Norwegius
The “territorial adjustments” were clearly inseparable from the massacres and the ethnic cleansing that accompanied them. It makes no sense to declare you support one part of this massive crime, but not the other, but then again, very little of what you say makes sense in the real world.
Like I said, your position is pretty stupid, given that, in reality, they were both killed and driven from their homes. But yes, this was the essence of my comment, you support the ethnic cleansing of people who vote wrong, good to know.
“genocidal” is the wrong term imo, should be limited to cases where destruction of an ethnic group is the goal (though boundaries between ethnic cleansing and genocide can be fluent, as in the case of the Armenians during WW1). That can’t be claimed about the post-war expulsions.
However, even if we were to take a "higher" standard for the term genocide, I would still say that the eastern Germans were subject to this. In the years preceding the war, the treatment of Germans in the Soviet Union was a clear precedent for the fate that would eventually befall them throughout Eastern Europe.
Many of the methods used to organize the campaigns of mass violence in the early Soviet Union were quite similar to the ones the Nazis would use against their own victims. For example, in "The Gulag Archipelago" Solzhenitsyn draws a parallel between Stalin's mass deportations of "untrustworthy" ethnic groups and Hitler's own methods, suggesting they were not too different. I agree with his analysis. Germans were one of the biggest victims of this policy in the USSR, and I think that when one views their trials throughout 1920-1946 as a whole, a pretty clear case can be made that the eastern Germans were subjected to a genocide.Replies: @German_reader
Like I said, it’s pointless to distinguish between the ethnic cleansing of the germans and the methods that were used to accomplish it. But even your imaginary peaceful ethnic cleansing would still have been a crime, and a pretty grave one.
As for the allied bombing campaigns, I agree with AK.
That wasn't clear enough for you? I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.Replies: @Denis, @Rattus Norwegius
“I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.”
While it is true that most of the territory that Germany lost following WW2 voted were more supportive of the Nazi party, than the German average, not every German in those areas voted for the Nazi party.
The reason that those areas were taken, was not that they had voted for the Nazi party. it was simply more practical to expand in those geographic areas.
I've visited Silesia, according to locals (including Germans who stayed behind as "Poles") there was mass enthusiasm for the war and the invasion of Poland, in the beginning.
While you are correct that not everyone there voted Nazi, if territorial adjustments are going to be made as a result of a war that the Nazi party started, it might as well involve territories where most voters were Nazis. I agree, but it worked out better that the Germans who voted for the party that invaded Poland and the USSR, and murdered millions of those countries' peoples were the ones whose territory was given to Poland and Russia. While the Bavarians who did not vote the Nazis into power were left alone.
Here was the % of Nazi votes in the 1933 election:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/NSDAP_Wahl_1933.svg/1920px-NSDAP_Wahl_1933.svg.png
(Silesia is lighter only because of the ethnic Poles living there)
It seems to me that it’s a bit semantic to argue about the distinction between genocide and ethnic cleansing in this case. You mention the Armenian Genocide, which was a pretty clear instance of the former. If that is considered a genocide, I see no reason whatsoever that the expulsion of the eastern Germans wouldn’t be.
However, even if we were to take a “higher” standard for the term genocide, I would still say that the eastern Germans were subject to this. In the years preceding the war, the treatment of Germans in the Soviet Union was a clear precedent for the fate that would eventually befall them throughout Eastern Europe.
Many of the methods used to organize the campaigns of mass violence in the early Soviet Union were quite similar to the ones the Nazis would use against their own victims. For example, in “The Gulag Archipelago” Solzhenitsyn draws a parallel between Stalin’s mass deportations of “untrustworthy” ethnic groups and Hitler’s own methods, suggesting they were not too different. I agree with his analysis. Germans were one of the biggest victims of this policy in the USSR, and I think that when one views their trials throughout 1920-1946 as a whole, a pretty clear case can be made that the eastern Germans were subjected to a genocide.
I'm somewhat opposed to over-use of the term "genocide" in general, because often it's merely used as a polemical attempt meant to evoke associations with the Nazi genocide of the Jews (which was a fairly distinctive, possibly singular, event that isn't easily paralleled). But of course the legal definition is somewhat different...since there are claims of a "Bosnian genocide" during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, maybe one could make similar claims about the post-war expulsions. I doubt though that it would elucidate the issue or contribute anything positive to Polish-German relations.Replies: @Denis
They didn’t have to be.
Not simple enough for you?
Depends on whom they voted for.
While it is true that most of the territory that Germany lost following WW2 voted were more supportive of the Nazi party, than the German average, not every German in those areas voted for the Nazi party.
The reason that those areas were taken, was not that they had voted for the Nazi party. it was simply more practical to expand in those geographic areas.Replies: @AP
It was 90% in Danzig/Gdansk.
I’ve visited Silesia, according to locals (including Germans who stayed behind as “Poles”) there was mass enthusiasm for the war and the invasion of Poland, in the beginning.
While you are correct that not everyone there voted Nazi, if territorial adjustments are going to be made as a result of a war that the Nazi party started, it might as well involve territories where most voters were Nazis.
I agree, but it worked out better that the Germans who voted for the party that invaded Poland and the USSR, and murdered millions of those countries’ peoples were the ones whose territory was given to Poland and Russia. While the Bavarians who did not vote the Nazis into power were left alone.
Here was the % of Nazi votes in the 1933 election:
(Silesia is lighter only because of the ethnic Poles living there)
However, even if we were to take a "higher" standard for the term genocide, I would still say that the eastern Germans were subject to this. In the years preceding the war, the treatment of Germans in the Soviet Union was a clear precedent for the fate that would eventually befall them throughout Eastern Europe.
Many of the methods used to organize the campaigns of mass violence in the early Soviet Union were quite similar to the ones the Nazis would use against their own victims. For example, in "The Gulag Archipelago" Solzhenitsyn draws a parallel between Stalin's mass deportations of "untrustworthy" ethnic groups and Hitler's own methods, suggesting they were not too different. I agree with his analysis. Germans were one of the biggest victims of this policy in the USSR, and I think that when one views their trials throughout 1920-1946 as a whole, a pretty clear case can be made that the eastern Germans were subjected to a genocide.Replies: @German_reader
I’m not sure though how important ethnic considerations were for repression of Germans in the Soviet Union before WW2, much of it may rather have been class-based…wealthy, religious peasants were seen as enemies by the communists in general, no matter their ethnic origin.
I’m somewhat opposed to over-use of the term “genocide” in general, because often it’s merely used as a polemical attempt meant to evoke associations with the Nazi genocide of the Jews (which was a fairly distinctive, possibly singular, event that isn’t easily paralleled). But of course the legal definition is somewhat different…since there are claims of a “Bosnian genocide” during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, maybe one could make similar claims about the post-war expulsions. I doubt though that it would elucidate the issue or contribute anything positive to Polish-German relations.
2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 - 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.
*The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the NazisReplies: @Denis, @Anatoly Karlin, @for-the-record
Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them.
Dead or Missing in Flight and Expulsion
In the eastern territories of the German Reich 1,225,000
In Czechoslovakia 267,000
In other countries 619,000
TOTAL 2,111,000
Source: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, A Terrible Revenge, The Ethnic Cleansing of the East European Germans, 1944–1950 . De Zayas earlier treated the subject in a more scholarly work entitled Nemesis at Potsdam.
According to Wiki: “The death toll attributable to the flight and expulsions is disputed, with estimates ranging from 500,000-600,000[10] [11] and up to 2 to 2.5 million.[12][13][14]”.
The victims were of course almost entirely women, children and the elderly.
Some of the higher estimates for deaths during the expulsions are probably exaggerated. But there doesn't seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know.Replies: @for-the-record
Dead or Missing in Flight and Expulsion
In the eastern territories of the German Reich 1,225,000
In Czechoslovakia 267,000
In other countries 619,000
TOTAL 2,111,000
Source: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, A Terrible Revenge, The Ethnic Cleansing of the East European Germans, 1944–1950 . De Zayas earlier treated the subject in a more scholarly work entitled Nemesis at Potsdam.
According to Wiki: "The death toll attributable to the flight and expulsions is disputed, with estimates ranging from 500,000-600,000[10] [11] and up to 2 to 2.5 million.[12][13][14]".
The victims were of course almost entirely women, children and the elderly.Replies: @German_reader
I think more recent studies have reduced that to about 30 000 (as far as I know similar studies haven’t been done for the territories annexed to Poland).
Some of the higher estimates for deaths during the expulsions are probably exaggerated. But there doesn’t seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know.
Regardless of the numbers, the individual stories are horrific.
https://vimeo.com/276472292
From a review in a Scottish newspaper (The Herald): Replies: @German_reader
Some of the higher estimates for deaths during the expulsions are probably exaggerated. But there doesn't seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know.Replies: @for-the-record
But there doesn’t seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know
Regardless of the numbers, the individual stories are horrific.
https://vimeo.com/276472292
From a review in a Scottish newspaper (The Herald):
One could of course draw some conclusions from all this, namely that diversity and ethnic conflict can lead to horrible results...and that it's extremely foolish to wilfully create conditions that could eventually lead to such an outcome.Replies: @LatW, @songbird
Regardless of the numbers, the individual stories are horrific.
https://vimeo.com/276472292
From a review in a Scottish newspaper (The Herald): Replies: @German_reader
I know, I just find it annoying how this issue is often used by revanchists who still want to refight WW2.
One could of course draw some conclusions from all this, namely that diversity and ethnic conflict can lead to horrible results…and that it’s extremely foolish to wilfully create conditions that could eventually lead to such an outcome.
It is obviously a pale imitation of the political ethnocentrism of Jews, like there is no hope of them ever having dozens and dozens of memorials in the center of cities thousands of miles from the event took place, and they realize it. It is purely derivative, like the lynching museum blacks set up. Simultaneously, there's implicit powerless and admiration in it that seems so unseemly and not befitting people with a proud history.
Not to mention, it is often so weak-willed a construction, like "I believe X was a genocide. What do you think? " And to add insult to injury, the people asking are often supercucks who would kiss the ass of the first gay Hindu who wanted to rule over them.
At the very least, you got to come up with your own non-generic name for it and turn it back against one of the aggressor groups. For instance, Armenians are failing because they don't have their own word in the English globalist lexicon - even though their target, Turks, is good. Ukrainians are actually doing a pretty good job. Hindus are failing hilariously, but in a way that is almost a brilliant satire on Jews, so I will give them a pass.
On the other hand, Irish people who ask if the Potato Famine was a genocide, are the worst supercucks. For one thing, rule number one: you don't pile on against other Europeans. But ethnic rivalry is okay though, if it is sportsmanlike. Bring up massacres sure, but don't use the word "genocide" so generically that it doesn't even have an ethnic modifier, and don't do it with you nose buried in the ass of a gay Hindu.Replies: @German_reader
It’s interesting how AP shits so much on Anglo countries for their role in defeating Nazi Germany. His fellow Ukrainians in Canada, who missed out on communism, the Holodomor, and WW2 thanks to Anglo-Canadian generosity, spent most of the last century LEADING the campaign to demoralise and delegitimise the very existence of Anglo-Saxon Canada. Apparently Ukrainians in Australia were also big proponents of turning Australia from an Anglo to a multiculti society. There seems to be a pattern here.
I really hope AP is just a typical no-skin-in-the-game diaspora nationalist (the worst kind of nationalist, no matter the nationality) because I had a good time in Lviv in January and I’d hate to think the locals, who seemed so nice, are privately as filled with hatred towards every other nationality as he is.
Just out of curiosity AP would you agree that the recent dispute between Ukraine and Hungary was entirely the fault of the Hungarians?
Are you suggesting that this terror bombing characterized the Anglo-American role in defeating Germany? I wouldn't. Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Saxons specialize in getting themselves replaced by Pakistanis and Nigerians. I guess Canadian ones left to their own devices would take in Jamaicans also.
You should be grateful that thanks to Ukrainians and those like them, Canada is still nearly 80% of European origin. There were about 30,000 of them in Australia. If you think they impacted anything there.. LOL. I stated it was a crime to bomb civilians. To you this makes me "full of hatred towards every other nationality." Paranoia.Replies: @Adam, @DFH
One could of course draw some conclusions from all this, namely that diversity and ethnic conflict can lead to horrible results...and that it's extremely foolish to wilfully create conditions that could eventually lead to such an outcome.Replies: @LatW, @songbird
Agree on diversity.
Btw – and I certainly don’t want to take sides as far as Poles, Czechs and Germans are concerned – but have you seen the German girl on Czech border video? It’s called 1945 Lost German woman on Youtube. I’ve watched it many times out of morbid curiosity, she’s got such familiar features and so beautiful despite of what happened to her.
Oh, and the “liberators” did a “great” job with Wilhelm Gustloff, drowning German and Latvian children – collatoral damage I guess it’s what it’s called.
May we all be forgiven for what we do.
P-47 could dive in excess of 500 mph and leave every single piston fighter behind them.
P-47M was faster than Ta-152.Regarding diving, it wasn’t just the final velocity - the immediate acceleration when engaging in maneuver was what counted - IIRC correctly P-51 had ~500 mph redline, while P-47 went beyond that. So, P-51D with its laminar flow wings and cleaner form might ultimately come close to max speed, but P-47 would be near its max dive speed sooner. It would also be more controllable at those speeds. Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable, but there is definitely something in them when P-47 pilots boasted they only had to lower the nose down, full throttle and be gone - German pilots recognized P-47 diving like a brick from them, while P-51 could be evaded in a Bf-109 and FW-190DAlso, regarding its turbosupercharger - it was dead weight at low altitudes, while the plane sacrificed a lot to have the ability to carry it - size, wing loading, payload, fuel capacity. Maneuvering at low altitudes with dense air was not the same as at high altitudes - energy bleeding in turns was different, control surface impact was different.I am aware of the abysmal performance of P-38s in the Mediterranean and ETO - there was a notorious incident where a green formation of P-38 (early type) were ambushed by Bf-109 Experten with altitude and speed advantage - something like 11 - 0 kill count in that battle.
The P-38 in Europe had terrible reliability and availability rates compared to Pacific - would be interesting to track engine serial number and origin.
However, this would actually be in accordance with the very steep learning curve and lopsided ratios of air combat - something like 10% of fighter pilots achieved 90% of all kills - my guess due to 3D nature of combat, need to predict opposition’s moves, react instantaneously and “feel” the plane and its weapons - deflection shooting was a craft.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
FWIW Richard Bong, the top-scoring P-38 ace, mainly used boom and zoom tactics.
Twin-engine fighters were fine interceptors, photo reconnaissance platforms, night fighters, etc.
To my knowledge they were not dogfighters.
The P-38 was a fine airplane, as was the Mosquito. Other great twins which missed the war were the F7F Tigercat and the Hornet (successor to the Mosquito).
A key parameter you’re missing is weight, and by extension the power-to-weight and wing loading.
Loss of controllability as aircraft entered the transonic range was a well known problem in the WW2 era. This led to aerodynamic innovations like thinner airfoils, swept wings, the all-moving tail, etc.
Not the same thing as being UNABLE to dive past a certain Mach number in which case many P-47s, Spitfires, P-38s, etc. would’ve simply broken up or whatever in any full power dive from altitude–something which obviously did not happen.
A quick check on Wikipedia shows the Ta-152 as being one mile per hour slower.
No question that the P-47 could dive faster than the P-51. Normally weight counts against an airplane’s acceleration, but this is reversed in a dive. On top of that the P-47 had a 2,600 horsepower engine which far exceeded the P-51 (or any Luftwaffe fighter).
The turbosupercharger was only dead weight at low altitudes in a hypothetical aircraft intended purely for low altitude operation. A turbosupercharger was capable of providing an appropriate amount of boost at all altitudes, which was not the case with a geared supercharger.
See this wartime General Electric pamphlet for more: http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/geturbo/geturbo.htm
“The turbosupercharger may be used to increase rated engine power at sea level, or to furnish “ground boost”, as well as to maintain rated power at high altitude.”
[…]
“No matter how many stages or different gear ratios are used, such a geared supercharger can never have the perfect flexibility of speed control of a turbosupercharger, and must always involve some waste of power when operating below the altitude for which it was designed. The speed of the turbosupercharger can be controlled to maintain desired conditions of carburetor-inlet pressure without regard to the engine speed.”
The P-38 after all, which had its greatest successes in the Pacific where most operations were at low altitude, was equipped with turbosupercharged engines.
The Germans planned to transition to turbosupercharged engines, but their development program failed owing to persistent shortages of the required high temperature alloys. Priority for these alloys understandably went to axial-flow turbojet engine development.
Bismarck could have lived well as an estate-owner without ever entering politics, he also had experience in the diplomatic service. The mediocrities dominating party politics today are rather different imo.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
If you think about it most of politics consists of organized factions attempted to make the state their prey.
A “statesman” as opposed to a politician is realistically someone who is so skilled at politics that he’s able to stay in power long enough to do something on a grand scale rather than simply satisfy his particular faction/coalition.
Bismarck, of course, served at the pleasure of his liege lord which was fundamentally different than the situation today. But he was still forced to build coalitions in the Reichstag and Prussian Landtag, which he did in a number of unpleasant ways that today are no longer remember except through his famous quip about laws and sausage making.
A good example of this is how he got the Reichstag to create a very generous pension for the deposed King of Hanover but inserted conditions which gave him the control of these funds. This was then used as a gigantic political slush fund by him. Today such a scandal would likely result in a lengthy prison sentence.
What’s exceptionally frustrating in politics is when the ostensible leaders of your faction have interests divorced from yours for whatever reason. That might be a newish development of postwar politics and is not exclusive to countries with public financing of parties and elections.
Alienation from the life experiences of ordinary citizens is perhaps dubious in labor parties but otherwise to be expected from national elites and not new.
In the West, people seem generally much more Islamophilic, and it's possible that contributes to anti-Israel views. So reducing Islamophilia, would reduce opposition to Israel. For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.
But in the Russian internet - at least popular websites I read - most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.
Yet most Russian people are not pro-Israel, despite general dislike of Mosques. And Russia has a friendly external policy with the Muslim world.
So Islamophobia is not any sufficient condition for being pro-Israel.
Also most Israelis are more liberal than people like me, and I'm more liberal than most people on the internet - so supporting Israel will not satisfy any real illiberal Islamophobia. (When they learn the reality of Israel, they will just become angry to see Israeli government has good relations with the rulers of a lot of Muslim countries, is full of mosques, and that Kadyrov is allowed to use - presumably federal tax money - to build mosques in Israel).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean
Opposition on this forum to the attack in NZ is not Islamophilia but rather opposition to murder and terrorism.
Less charitably there is also the fact that our comments are perhaps being collected by counterintelligence services.
One could of course draw some conclusions from all this, namely that diversity and ethnic conflict can lead to horrible results...and that it's extremely foolish to wilfully create conditions that could eventually lead to such an outcome.Replies: @LatW, @songbird
I don’t really like it when Europeans use the term “genocide” for themselves because it feels like seeing Africans rolling metal trashcans down a hill and calling it a space program.
It is obviously a pale imitation of the political ethnocentrism of Jews, like there is no hope of them ever having dozens and dozens of memorials in the center of cities thousands of miles from the event took place, and they realize it. It is purely derivative, like the lynching museum blacks set up. Simultaneously, there’s implicit powerless and admiration in it that seems so unseemly and not befitting people with a proud history.
Not to mention, it is often so weak-willed a construction, like “I believe X was a genocide. What do you think? ” And to add insult to injury, the people asking are often supercucks who would kiss the ass of the first gay Hindu who wanted to rule over them.
At the very least, you got to come up with your own non-generic name for it and turn it back against one of the aggressor groups. For instance, Armenians are failing because they don’t have their own word in the English globalist lexicon – even though their target, Turks, is good. Ukrainians are actually doing a pretty good job. Hindus are failing hilariously, but in a way that is almost a brilliant satire on Jews, so I will give them a pass.
On the other hand, Irish people who ask if the Potato Famine was a genocide, are the worst supercucks. For one thing, rule number one: you don’t pile on against other Europeans. But ethnic rivalry is okay though, if it is sportsmanlike. Bring up massacres sure, but don’t use the word “genocide” so generically that it doesn’t even have an ethnic modifier, and don’t do it with you nose buried in the ass of a gay Hindu.
I agree with you about use of the term "genocide", in a way it's another manifestation of the sickening glorification of victimhood prevalent in Western societies today.Replies: @songbird
Retarded it is, it should end asap.
In the West, people seem generally much more Islamophilic, and it's possible that contributes to anti-Israel views. So reducing Islamophilia, would reduce opposition to Israel. For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.
But in the Russian internet - at least popular websites I read - most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.
Yet most Russian people are not pro-Israel, despite general dislike of Mosques. And Russia has a friendly external policy with the Muslim world.
So Islamophobia is not any sufficient condition for being pro-Israel.
Also most Israelis are more liberal than people like me, and I'm more liberal than most people on the internet - so supporting Israel will not satisfy any real illiberal Islamophobia. (When they learn the reality of Israel, they will just become angry to see Israeli government has good relations with the rulers of a lot of Muslim countries, is full of mosques, and that Kadyrov is allowed to use - presumably federal tax money - to build mosques in Israel).Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean
There are a lot of indifferent people in other parts of the English internet, though, such as the chan forums and Breitbart.
Total amount of upvotes would probably also be even higher if the deleted comments on Breitbart are included.
Probably good that they aren’t directly saying they deserved it, even though it might be a bit on the line anyway. There are lot of people getting arrested for being too enthusiastic and open about their opinions in places like the UK.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/recep-tayyip-erdogan-the-new-zealand-killer-and-the-islamic-state-are-cut-from-the-same-cloth/2019/03/19/
All at the same time he is inciting Turks at his campaign rallies and promising a repeat of Gallipoli. But that is to be expected from shitty Middle Easterners.
https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.42.39-AM.pngTotal amount of upvotes would probably also be even higher if the deleted comments on Breitbart are included. https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.50.52-AM.pngProbably good that they aren't directly saying they deserved it, even though it might be a bit on the line anyway. There are lot of people getting arrested for being too enthusiastic and open about their opinions in places like the UK.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
President “be fruitful and takeover Europe” Erdoğan (or his secretary) pretends he cares:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/recep-tayyip-erdogan-the-new-zealand-killer-and-the-islamic-state-are-cut-from-the-same-cloth/2019/03/19/
All at the same time he is inciting Turks at his campaign rallies and promising a repeat of Gallipoli. But that is to be expected from shitty Middle Easterners.
During the recent Dutch provincial and, indirectly, the senate elections the Party for Freedom (PVV) under Geert Wilders went from 9 to 5 seats while the Forum for Democracy (FvD), led by Thierry Baudet, went from 0 to 12/13, equal or slightly larger to the largest party, the cuckservative traitor party VVD.
This is a very positive development. The PVV has low class associations and often excessively focused on ‘counter-jihad’ nonsense (also well as being completely controlled by Wilders) while the FvD is more identitarian and has higher human quality (IIRC, many of their MPs are intellectuals and classical musicians, etc.)
Here is Baudet’s speech:
https://www.counter-currents.com/2019/03/populism-triumphs-in-the-netherlands/
I think it is a good speech, especially for cultural themes like rebirth, criticising ugly architecture, and pledging to purge public television (if they mean to replace personel and not dismantle it).
The only quibble I have is that the ice age and mammoth-slaying talk is a bit too svidomite.
There hasn't been much conflict due to the growing polarisation and radicalisation yet but it will most likely become more serious the next 10-15 years.
But maybe that sort of quasi-religious talk in politics is needed. Interesting development in any case, seems the Netherlands is similar to Germany, with increasing polarization due to the events since 2015. Unfortunate though that the right is still in a distinct minority position, despite everything that has happened.Replies: @Mitleser
I forgot to add: Like in neighbouring Germany, the Green Party is growing in popularity as well in Netherlands (in Amsterdam they got a quarter of the vote)
There hasn’t been much conflict due to the growing polarisation and radicalisation yet but it will most likely become more serious the next 10-15 years.
I don't know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let's also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it's not like they'd have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.
In this sense, the UPA massacres aren't anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.Replies: @AP, @German_reader, @LondonBob
The bombing of civilian areas was always a controversial area, bomber crews only recently received a memorial, I oppose this, and they didn’t receive a campaign medal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-44255399
Going back to inhabitants and garrisons being slaughtered after a siege this would act as an incentive to surrender. The rules of war were that is was entirely honourable to surrender when the defender’s position had become untenable. See the surrender of Fort William Henry in The Last of the Mohicans.
It is obviously a pale imitation of the political ethnocentrism of Jews, like there is no hope of them ever having dozens and dozens of memorials in the center of cities thousands of miles from the event took place, and they realize it. It is purely derivative, like the lynching museum blacks set up. Simultaneously, there's implicit powerless and admiration in it that seems so unseemly and not befitting people with a proud history.
Not to mention, it is often so weak-willed a construction, like "I believe X was a genocide. What do you think? " And to add insult to injury, the people asking are often supercucks who would kiss the ass of the first gay Hindu who wanted to rule over them.
At the very least, you got to come up with your own non-generic name for it and turn it back against one of the aggressor groups. For instance, Armenians are failing because they don't have their own word in the English globalist lexicon - even though their target, Turks, is good. Ukrainians are actually doing a pretty good job. Hindus are failing hilariously, but in a way that is almost a brilliant satire on Jews, so I will give them a pass.
On the other hand, Irish people who ask if the Potato Famine was a genocide, are the worst supercucks. For one thing, rule number one: you don't pile on against other Europeans. But ethnic rivalry is okay though, if it is sportsmanlike. Bring up massacres sure, but don't use the word "genocide" so generically that it doesn't even have an ethnic modifier, and don't do it with you nose buried in the ass of a gay Hindu.Replies: @German_reader
I don’t know, does anybody really go on much about the Holodomor narrative except alt-righters, who are only interested in it because they blame it on Jews? Some mainstream historians like Timothy Snyder may allude to parts of it, but that is transparently motivated by anti-Russian animus. On its own, the Ukrainian famine isn’t that interesting to most people.
Who did supposedly genocide them? Mahmud of Ghazni? Aurangzeb? Churchill? Well, that wasn’t very successful then, since there are still so many Hindus around.
I agree with you about use of the term “genocide”, in a way it’s another manifestation of the sickening glorification of victimhood prevalent in Western societies today.
One of their longer range missiles is named "Abadeel" which means "swallow .". But even that is thought to be a closeted reference to India, since it is thought to refer to birds who supposedly dropped stones on war elephants threatening the Kaaba in pre-Islamic times.
Too bad that Britain doesn't have Churchill tanks anymore, but maybe that would only get the goat of Indians and not Pakis. Maybe, they could name some weapon after Cecil Rhodes, closeted gay though he was, to annoy Africans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-44255399
Going back to inhabitants and garrisons being slaughtered after a siege this would act as an incentive to surrender. The rules of war were that is was entirely honourable to surrender when the defender's position had become untenable. See the surrender of Fort William Henry in The Last of the Mohicans.Replies: @German_reader
That was pretty shabby treatment though, especially given the very high loss rate (almost 50%, iirc about 55 000 in absolute numbers) of Bomber Command’s aircrews.
The “On this rock, will we build our church” part is a bit much as well, could be seen as almost blasphemous.
But maybe that sort of quasi-religious talk in politics is needed. Interesting development in any case, seems the Netherlands is similar to Germany, with increasing polarization due to the events since 2015. Unfortunate though that the right is still in a distinct minority position, despite everything that has happened.
But maybe that sort of quasi-religious talk in politics is needed. Interesting development in any case, seems the Netherlands is similar to Germany, with increasing polarization due to the events since 2015. Unfortunate though that the right is still in a distinct minority position, despite everything that has happened.Replies: @Mitleser
It will remain a distinct minority position until the anti-right establishment discredits itself.
Given the previous discussions about Mormons on earlier Open Threads, I thought this longread academic-style article on Mormon ethnography might prove interesting:
https://www.socialmatter.net/2019/03/13/the-pursuit-of-worthiness-lessons-drawn-from-the-mormon-experience/
Dresden was a major center of rail communications as well as optics production. At the time there was growing frustration that seemingly nothing would end the war, and at least in America there was a growing problem with desertion and resistance to conscription. The late war bombings (not just of Dresden) seem very cruel in retrospect, but every day the war continued meant more Allied casualties. Late war raids were also effective in their intended effects. In the early spring of 1945 the Anglo-American bombing campaign for instance caused the complete collapse of the German rail system.
It wasn’t until well into 1942 that Britain adopted “dehousing” and area bombing as official doctrine of Bomber Command. This largely emerged in response to the wild inaccuracy of night bombing, which itself was an improvisation in response to the fact that daylight raids into occupied Europe resulted in unacceptably high attrition.
Early in the war all the belligerents largely abided by President Roosevelt’s request to limit bombing to military targets, and even attacking civilian industrial targets in Germany was not permitted (against the wishes of Bomber Command) until the Rotterdam Blitz.
Germany for its part didn’t initiate large scale bombing of civilian areas (Rotterdam was not intended) until the British bombed Berlin.
There was actually a very good German heavy bomber (Heinkel 177 Greif), but it was not produced in substantial numbers and had significant teething problems owing to the failure of German high output aero engine development. These failures were themselves the outgrowth of doctrine (heavy bomber was not a priority) and then the exigencies of war (close support and interdiction on the Eastern Front, fighter defenses for the Reich).
America did refuse to switch to “area bombing”, but shouldn’t be considered as some kind of humane strategic bombing force. Only the lead bomber used precision targeting, as all other bombers had to fly in defensive box organizations for protection from German fighters. The weather was frequently overcast as well, which obviously precluded visual target identification.
Anyway, my intention was merely to point out one of the reasons why the topic is so emotional, I'm not in favour of a cult of German victimhood about WW2 bombing and find right-wingers who build up Dresden into some huge symbol and use inflated numbers of deaths rather foolish. My impression had been that this was more due to American daylight bombing which specifically targeted communications and transport infrastructure than to the more indiscriminate British effort.
I'm in agreement with the rest of your comment.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
It wasn't until well into 1942 that Britain adopted "dehousing" and area bombing as official doctrine of Bomber Command. This largely emerged in response to the wild inaccuracy of night bombing, which itself was an improvisation in response to the fact that daylight raids into occupied Europe resulted in unacceptably high attrition.
Early in the war all the belligerents largely abided by President Roosevelt's request to limit bombing to military targets, and even attacking civilian industrial targets in Germany was not permitted (against the wishes of Bomber Command) until the Rotterdam Blitz.
Germany for its part didn't initiate large scale bombing of civilian areas (Rotterdam was not intended) until the British bombed Berlin.
There was actually a very good German heavy bomber (Heinkel 177 Greif), but it was not produced in substantial numbers and had significant teething problems owing to the failure of German high output aero engine development. These failures were themselves the outgrowth of doctrine (heavy bomber was not a priority) and then the exigencies of war (close support and interdiction on the Eastern Front, fighter defenses for the Reich).
America did refuse to switch to "area bombing", but shouldn't be considered as some kind of humane strategic bombing force. Only the lead bomber used precision targeting, as all other bombers had to fly in defensive box organizations for protection from German fighters. The weather was frequently overcast as well, which obviously precluded visual target identification.Replies: @German_reader
I know that argument, but even if it were valid for Dresden (and I’m unconvinced), it still leaves lots of other attacks which are difficult to rationalize imo. I doubt there is much of a purely military justification for something like the bombing of Pforzheim (proportionally the worst in the war, since it killed almost a fifth of Pforzheim’s population) on February 23 1945, which is why the debate in the end always gets shifted to a different plane like arguing that it was just punishment for Nazism (which I find a dubious argument for many reasons…even if one regards all Germans at the time as equally guilty and deserving of death, there’s still the substantial number of foreign forced labourers and pows killed by bombing).
Anyway, my intention was merely to point out one of the reasons why the topic is so emotional, I’m not in favour of a cult of German victimhood about WW2 bombing and find right-wingers who build up Dresden into some huge symbol and use inflated numbers of deaths rather foolish.
My impression had been that this was more due to American daylight bombing which specifically targeted communications and transport infrastructure than to the more indiscriminate British effort.
I’m in agreement with the rest of your comment.
Pforzheim was both a manufacturing and logistics center. I don't believe Bomber Command was aware of what was being produced there, but lots of shell fuzes were manufactured there.
That said, since just about all economic activity supported the German war effort, one could contrive a military justification for bombing just about anything. The Allies could've deliberately bombed grain silos or even hospitals with military justification. They would've had to machine gun pensioners to do something without a military benefit (and no doubt you'd find people to justify that on morale grounds).
Bomber Command was also part of the effective campaign against the German transportation network. Many viaducts, tunnels, and bridges were attacked by Lancasters dropping Grand Slam bombs which could not be employed by American bombers.
As for recognising the bomber crews I oppose, that generation knew best and I find it a sad reflection of today's society that we know better and that we lack the morality to understand why this was a contentious issue.
Anyway, my intention was merely to point out one of the reasons why the topic is so emotional, I'm not in favour of a cult of German victimhood about WW2 bombing and find right-wingers who build up Dresden into some huge symbol and use inflated numbers of deaths rather foolish. My impression had been that this was more due to American daylight bombing which specifically targeted communications and transport infrastructure than to the more indiscriminate British effort.
I'm in agreement with the rest of your comment.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
Once the decision was made to bomb civilian industry with level bombers at high altitude massive civilian casualties were inescapable. I doubt that anyone in the USAAF actually believed the nonsense about a Norden bombsight being able to put a 500 pound bomb in a pickle barrel from 20,000 feet, though I suppose they believed in all other sorts of nonsense so who knows.
Pforzheim was both a manufacturing and logistics center. I don’t believe Bomber Command was aware of what was being produced there, but lots of shell fuzes were manufactured there.
That said, since just about all economic activity supported the German war effort, one could contrive a military justification for bombing just about anything. The Allies could’ve deliberately bombed grain silos or even hospitals with military justification. They would’ve had to machine gun pensioners to do something without a military benefit (and no doubt you’d find people to justify that on morale grounds).
Bomber Command was also part of the effective campaign against the German transportation network. Many viaducts, tunnels, and bridges were attacked by Lancasters dropping Grand Slam bombs which could not be employed by American bombers.
Anyway, my intention was merely to point out one of the reasons why the topic is so emotional, I'm not in favour of a cult of German victimhood about WW2 bombing and find right-wingers who build up Dresden into some huge symbol and use inflated numbers of deaths rather foolish. My impression had been that this was more due to American daylight bombing which specifically targeted communications and transport infrastructure than to the more indiscriminate British effort.
I'm in agreement with the rest of your comment.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
The ‘Dehousing’ policy was the brainchild of Frederick Lindemann, similarly Morgenthau was advocating the Morgenthau plan for Germany in the Roosevelt administration.
As for recognising the bomber crews I oppose, that generation knew best and I find it a sad reflection of today’s society that we know better and that we lack the morality to understand why this was a contentious issue.
Thousands were evacuated in New Zealand over the horrible threat posed by an alleged far right tattoo. Security personnel quickly defused the danger by evacuating all and then establishing that the tattoo was just a normal ordinary tattoo. Incredibly, all involved survived.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/111507831/wellingtons-homegrown-festival-reportedly-evacuated
In the meantime, to the great surprise of the Hungarian public, the Hungarian national football team is still very far from the European elite. Among the five sides in our group (Croatia, Wales, Slovakia, Hungary, Azerbaijan), Hungary is easily the fourth by any metric. But for some reason people got extremely disappointed when we failed to beat the much stronger Slovak side. I don’t know what will happen now that the Croats are going to beat us without even trying too hard. Apparently many people were expecting some kind of miracle.
EDIT: miracles might be possible? We just equalized.
Not a great surprise, I imagine. Who will be next?
WTH? What is a European top politician doing there?
Didn’t expect Romania to be such a Zionist stronghold.
Read more: https://forward.com/fast-forward/421411/romania-announces-it-will-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/
Not that Romanians en masse are known for being particularly fond of Jews.Replies: @Dmitry
Croatia’s overrated. Ridiculous amount of luck on WC, from Argentina game all the way through 0 victories in knock-0ut phases during regular game time. 2 penalty shootouts, one overtime win (vs. England), and avoided Brazil and Belgium in the draw.
It certainly appears so, based on today’s match.
It was the only Warsaw Pact nation which continued to have formal relations with the Jewish state after the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
Not that Romanians en masse are known for being particularly fond of Jews.
Pozzed Leipzig Book Fair 2019
At the Sino-Russian periphery of Hall 4
https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.42.39-AM.pngTotal amount of upvotes would probably also be even higher if the deleted comments on Breitbart are included. https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.50.52-AM.pngProbably good that they aren't directly saying they deserved it, even though it might be a bit on the line anyway. There are lot of people getting arrested for being too enthusiastic and open about their opinions in places like the UK.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
Those comments are not supporting the attack though.
Also Breitbart is a website, which is very critical of Muslim immigration.
Breitbart website is semi-Israeli American, and was possibly established in Netanyahu’s office? at least I read an article there suggesting that.
In any case, Breitbart not representative of normal English speaking netizens.
–
I felt like the internet culture clash, was very large on that topic. Most commentators on some liberal, educated, websites I read, were supporting the attack and joking about the video. .
Not that Romanians en masse are known for being particularly fond of Jews.Replies: @Dmitry
Romania has externally a very Christian identity (although probably not very religious in reality?), so I guess Israel/Palestine would probably have some symbolic significance there.
Also Israel has guest worker programs with Romania. So a lot of cleaners, carers of old people, and workers with jobs like constructing roads in Israel, are legal Romanian immigrants which were longtime guestworkers in Israel – probably more from the 1990s when Romania was not in the EU.
Ceaușescu was somewhat of a foreign policy Titoist. Recall Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to attend the 1984 LA Summer Olympics. At the height of the Sino-Soviet dispute, a high level Chinese delegation visited Romania and Yugoslavia.
The announced Romanian recognition regarding Jerusalem seems like a calculated attempt to curry greater favor with the US and Israel - with the belief that any backlash will be limited.Replies: @Dmitry
What is your view about allegations – perhaps exaggerated – saying there is an “apartheid system” in Latvia today?
Apartheid was a good thing by the way.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Konstantin, @anonymous coward
I really hope AP is just a typical no-skin-in-the-game diaspora nationalist (the worst kind of nationalist, no matter the nationality) because I had a good time in Lviv in January and I'd hate to think the locals, who seemed so nice, are privately as filled with hatred towards every other nationality as he is.
Just out of curiosity AP would you agree that the recent dispute between Ukraine and Hungary was entirely the fault of the Hungarians?Replies: @AP
All I did was state that the deliberate targeting and bombing of German civilians areas was a crime.
Are you suggesting that this terror bombing characterized the Anglo-American role in defeating Germany? I wouldn’t.
Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Saxons specialize in getting themselves replaced by Pakistanis and Nigerians. I guess Canadian ones left to their own devices would take in Jamaicans also.
You should be grateful that thanks to Ukrainians and those like them, Canada is still nearly 80% of European origin.
There were about 30,000 of them in Australia. If you think they impacted anything there..
LOL. I stated it was a crime to bomb civilians. To you this makes me “full of hatred towards every other nationality.” Paranoia.
A good number of Jews with roots in Romania, combined with my earlier point on Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to not break diplomatic relations with the Jewish state, after the start of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
Ceaușescu was somewhat of a foreign policy Titoist. Recall Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to attend the 1984 LA Summer Olympics. At the height of the Sino-Soviet dispute, a high level Chinese delegation visited Romania and Yugoslavia.
The announced Romanian recognition regarding Jerusalem seems like a calculated attempt to curry greater favor with the US and Israel – with the belief that any backlash will be limited.
2. Russia
3. France
4. Ukraine
5. Germany
6. UK
7. China
8 Romania
9. PolandReplies: @Dmitry, @Mikhail
A little late to respond Karlin,but I would recommend getting a used gtx 1070 (roughly equivalent performance to those 2 cards) or even a gtx 1080 if you felt like an upgrade. There probably should still be some stock of used cards that were used in Mining. Normally mining cards, despite being used 24/7 are actually undervolted and underclocked to maximize efficiency per watt so they actually have less issues that normal used cards which go through larger thermal cycles of gameplay running them hot and cooling down. If your friend could scavenge those other parts, surely he can dig up a used gtx 10 series card, though this would depend on the pricing dynamics of used cards in Russia.
The rtx 20 series is a giant waste of money, as the price/performance ratio was a big step sideways compared to the previous gen as the useless die space taken up by dedicated ray tracing is going to waste. For anyone else considering upgrading, I would hold off until the 10/7nm cards show up later this year or the start of next. Considering how moore’s law is basically over now, the next and last likely die shrink isnt coming until 2025 so you will be set for a long time with the upcoming generation.
I agree with you about use of the term "genocide", in a way it's another manifestation of the sickening glorification of victimhood prevalent in Western societies today.Replies: @songbird
Pakistan has several missiles with names that must irritate Indians. Ghaznavi, Babur, Ghauri. They can also be designated by using “Hatf” (the name of Muhammad’s sword or lance) and a number.
One of their longer range missiles is named “Abadeel” which means “swallow .”. But even that is thought to be a closeted reference to India, since it is thought to refer to birds who supposedly dropped stones on war elephants threatening the Kaaba in pre-Islamic times.
Too bad that Britain doesn’t have Churchill tanks anymore, but maybe that would only get the goat of Indians and not Pakis. Maybe, they could name some weapon after Cecil Rhodes, closeted gay though he was, to annoy Africans.
Ceaușescu was somewhat of a foreign policy Titoist. Recall Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to attend the 1984 LA Summer Olympics. At the height of the Sino-Soviet dispute, a high level Chinese delegation visited Romania and Yugoslavia.
The announced Romanian recognition regarding Jerusalem seems like a calculated attempt to curry greater favor with the US and Israel - with the belief that any backlash will be limited.Replies: @Dmitry
There is also lot of tourism from Romania to Israel (mainly pilgrims, because Romania is externally quite a Christian country).
In per capita terms, I believe Ukrainians and Romanians are probably the most frequent visitors to Israel of any countries in the world. (Ukrainians are the most frequent tourists to Israel per capita, but I am not interested enough to do the actual calculations).
Number of total tourists to Israel by country ranked for 2018 was something like.
1. USA
2. Russia
3. France
4. Ukraine
5. Germany
6. UK
7. China
8 Romania
9. Poland
2. Russia
3. France
4. Ukraine
5. Germany
6. UK
7. China
8 Romania
9. PolandReplies: @Dmitry, @Mikhail
^Sorry ignore this comment, it is nonsense.
Highest per capita nationality who are visiting Israel by far are Lithuanians. Then Swiss, Romanians and Ukrainians, will be around the same level, behind Lithuanians.
I'm somewhat opposed to over-use of the term "genocide" in general, because often it's merely used as a polemical attempt meant to evoke associations with the Nazi genocide of the Jews (which was a fairly distinctive, possibly singular, event that isn't easily paralleled). But of course the legal definition is somewhat different...since there are claims of a "Bosnian genocide" during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, maybe one could make similar claims about the post-war expulsions. I doubt though that it would elucidate the issue or contribute anything positive to Polish-German relations.Replies: @Denis
I will quote Solzhenitsyn here:
“Then there was the wave of Germans-Germans living on the Volga, colonists in the Ukraine and the North Caucasus, and all Germans in general who lived anywhere in the Soviet Union. The determining factor here was blood, and even heroes in the Civil War and old members of the Party were sent off into exile”
From “The Gulag Archipelago”, pg. 78, volume 1.
This seems to be referring to the period before 1941.
Agree
Disagree, it seems to me that both the Armenian genocide and the treatment of the Germans at the hands of the communist regimes are easily comparable to the holocaust in both scale and nature.
I agree with you that re-litigating the issue is pointless, and it isn’t my intention to do so. I’m definitely not arguing this point due to revanchism. However, I still don’t really see how it (the abuses and deportations of the Germans) can be considered anything other than a massive crime.
For future reference, does anyone know of good bookstores for history, literature, etc. books in London?
I usually just buy books at Waterstones and Foyles when I am there, but I would like to know if there is a interesting selection of books somewhere that I have missed.
Apart from Foyle's, I've always enjoyed Hatchards (very near Fortnum & Masons), and also recommend a visit to Waterstones Gower Street, near UCL. I'd also recommend looking through https://www.abebooks.co.uk/ and see if there are any interesting antiquarians to visit.Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
Are you suggesting that this terror bombing characterized the Anglo-American role in defeating Germany? I wouldn't. Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Saxons specialize in getting themselves replaced by Pakistanis and Nigerians. I guess Canadian ones left to their own devices would take in Jamaicans also.
You should be grateful that thanks to Ukrainians and those like them, Canada is still nearly 80% of European origin. There were about 30,000 of them in Australia. If you think they impacted anything there.. LOL. I stated it was a crime to bomb civilians. To you this makes me "full of hatred towards every other nationality." Paranoia.Replies: @Adam, @DFH
Canada is undergoing an extremely rapid demographic transformation. It will become majority non-white.
The prescence of peripheral Europeans has nothing to do with immigration policy. Just because Poles in Poland don’t like immigration doesn’t mean that they form some kind of anti-immigration bloc in the diaspora.
Peripheral Europeans don’t have some right to societies built by Northern Europeans. They’re decent people, but they can’t exactly build the kind of societies Northern Europeans do, not to mention the whole Euromutt phenomenon is damaging to any kind of rooted identity. Even as a Russophile I feel ambivalent hearing Russian in the street in a city built by Germans and Scandinavians, that should have been left to their descendants. But of course there are more pressing matters now.
I’m not exactly sympathetic to Latvia, but Russians in the Baltics should learn the local languages, which I believe is the main barrier to citizenship.
Apartheid was a good thing by the way.
E.g., The city known as 'Tartu' was founded in 1030 by (the Russian ruler) Yaroslav I under the name of 'Yuryev'.
The Baltic ethnicities and countries really only exist thanks to Russian magnanimity.
Apartheid was a good thing by the way.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Konstantin, @anonymous coward
The other barrier is that many already have Russian passports. Again, the comparison to apartheid is pretty dubious.
From wikipedia, which cites the 2017 Latvian government statistics: Latvian Non-citizens have 90 days within 180 days Schengen visa and Russian visa and then a few Latin American and other minor countries.
Latvian citizens in contrast have access to over 150-ish countries if one excludes the Schengen region.
Estonian non-citizens have similar limited visa access as Latvian non-citizens.
Estonian Non-citizens are around 6-8% of the population (although it was 40% at independence), around an equal amount are citizens of foreign countries (mainly Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine). I don’t know many emigrated compared to being naturalised.
After legal changes Non-citizen children born at independence in Estonia and Latvia are able to obtain citizenship.
-----
My own opinion is, if the Latvians and Estonians wish to solve their Russian problem then they should advocate for freedom for movement in Schengen area for non-citizens.
I think many Baltic Russian-speakers would mind less if they were able to go to Germany.Replies: @LatW
You then mention confusion that their ideologies go against racial self-interest, and attribute this to their "stupidity" (you can re-read your post) or lack of conspiracy skills. I needn't add the obvious fact, that Bolshevik Jews were still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, because and to the extent they were still Bolsheviks. Marx, himself wanted Jews to dissolve as a separate nationality, and believed the end of capitalism will make "Jews impossible".
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htmReplies: @reiner Tor
Why the plural? I only called you an autistic normie, did I call anyone else that?
What?
Regarding the rest.
Obviously people tend to believe in things which are good for them. Minorities will believe that granting minority rights is morally superior to encouraging assimilation.
People will explicitly use such utilitarian arguments, even if they have no relevance to the question at hand. For example religious people will often cite the numerous studies about religious people being happier, with more children, lower suicide rates, etc. Hungarian leftists regularly use arguments that multiculturalism would be good for the Hungarian minorities, who would benefit from minority rights etc.
That’s not “cynicism.” People are not very self-aware, and they will sincerely believe in their ideologies. So poor people will sincerely believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they will slowly tend to a belief in the magical powers of low taxes and free markets. There will certainly be a lag: people will keep their beliefs longer than they serve them. But they tend to beliefs which serve them. (More idealistic people less so. It’s a tendency, a stochastic rule.)
Jews, of course, explicitly use the argument that multiculturalism is good for Jews. They will use it when arguing with non-Jews, which shows that they are not totally aware of the fact that it’s not really an argument, and for a gentile, it’s not even a fallacious pseudo-argument.
Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.
So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?
Anyway, Jews tend to move to ideologies which they perceive to be good for them. They perceive ideologies to be good for them if they were objectively good for them in the recent past. There is some delay in perception, and ideologies have some staying power for a long time even beyond that, especially among the more committed adherents.
I’m not sure it’s productive to continue this.
I like your comments generally, but you need people point out your blindspots and overliteralism. Of course, the ideologies can be more attractive to some demographics for this reason.
But to reduce the reason people believed Marxism to "Jewish racial self-interest", is nonsense.
You'll have to explain all non-Jews, from Engels or Lenin, or China, et al, had some separate reason for believing Marxism.
If people believe everything for racial self-interest, why are there so many liberals today who want to punish their own races.
Also there is the fact for Marxism, that Marxism wanted to dissolve Jews as a separate nationality, and was largely successful to do that where it was an official ideology. Moreover, Jews which believed Marxism, usually did not have group identity as Jews, and were effectively acolytes of a new religion. Marx himself had an attitude to Jews like Ron Unz on here.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @reiner Tor
Are you suggesting that this terror bombing characterized the Anglo-American role in defeating Germany? I wouldn't. Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Saxons specialize in getting themselves replaced by Pakistanis and Nigerians. I guess Canadian ones left to their own devices would take in Jamaicans also.
You should be grateful that thanks to Ukrainians and those like them, Canada is still nearly 80% of European origin. There were about 30,000 of them in Australia. If you think they impacted anything there.. LOL. I stated it was a crime to bomb civilians. To you this makes me "full of hatred towards every other nationality." Paranoia.Replies: @Adam, @DFH
Canada is worse than Britain though
https://twitter.com/JoustPosting/status/1110037689322098688
It should have been Britain's Siberia.
http://www.highgatefleetsystems.com/wiki/images/c/c1/UnitedKingdomFlag.pngReplies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
Seems this is not quite accurate.
From wikipedia, which cites the 2017 Latvian government statistics:
Latvian Non-citizens have 90 days within 180 days Schengen visa and Russian visa and then a few Latin American and other minor countries.
Latvian citizens in contrast have access to over 150-ish countries if one excludes the Schengen region.
Estonian non-citizens have similar limited visa access as Latvian non-citizens.
Estonian Non-citizens are around 6-8% of the population (although it was 40% at independence), around an equal amount are citizens of foreign countries (mainly Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine). I don’t know many emigrated compared to being naturalised.
After legal changes Non-citizen children born at independence in Estonia and Latvia are able to obtain citizenship.
—–
My own opinion is, if the Latvians and Estonians wish to solve their Russian problem then they should advocate for freedom for movement in Schengen area for non-citizens.
I think many Baltic Russian-speakers would mind less if they were able to go to Germany.
No, Germany is not in the cards for the remaining non-citizens as most of them are too attached to the Baltic states or neighboring countries like Belarus. Some of them deliberately do not take out the passport to be able to travel east without a visa to see their relatives. Those who wanted to go to the West already got the passport in 2004 (slightly questionable MO, lol, but ok, let's not nitpick). No, for them moving West doesn't make sense, they have their Russophone friend and family network, paid out apartments, they don't want to be uprooted, learn English, pay exorbitant rents in the West, forget it. Moving is not that easy past age 35 or so.Replies: @Hyperborean
Regarding the rest.
Obviously people tend to believe in things which are good for them. Minorities will believe that granting minority rights is morally superior to encouraging assimilation.
People will explicitly use such utilitarian arguments, even if they have no relevance to the question at hand. For example religious people will often cite the numerous studies about religious people being happier, with more children, lower suicide rates, etc. Hungarian leftists regularly use arguments that multiculturalism would be good for the Hungarian minorities, who would benefit from minority rights etc.
That’s not “cynicism.” People are not very self-aware, and they will sincerely believe in their ideologies. So poor people will sincerely believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they will slowly tend to a belief in the magical powers of low taxes and free markets. There will certainly be a lag: people will keep their beliefs longer than they serve them. But they tend to beliefs which serve them. (More idealistic people less so. It’s a tendency, a stochastic rule.)
Jews, of course, explicitly use the argument that multiculturalism is good for Jews. They will use it when arguing with non-Jews, which shows that they are not totally aware of the fact that it’s not really an argument, and for a gentile, it’s not even a fallacious pseudo-argument.
Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.
So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?
Anyway, Jews tend to move to ideologies which they perceive to be good for them. They perceive ideologies to be good for them if they were objectively good for them in the recent past. There is some delay in perception, and ideologies have some staying power for a long time even beyond that, especially among the more committed adherents.
I’m not sure it’s productive to continue this.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
While there are a few decades during which there is a transition, I think it is notable that once they noticed many American Jewish “reformed” Bolshevists (typically Trotskyists) became the fiercest enemies of the Soviet Union (although I think the Soviet leadership was never quite able to completely grasp quite the extent of the ethnic element).
• Massive capital investments--the largest investment boom in German history
• U-boat production tripled
• Aircraft production increased 40%
• Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
• Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks--22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
• Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
• Army's steel ration cut by one-third
• Exports increased 25%
The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.
The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.
Some of the investments made include:
• Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
• Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
• Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
• IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
• Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
• 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
• 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
• 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
• 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
• 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success--actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
• 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the "armaments miracle")
In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would've been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would've faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.
Figures are from Adam Tooze's book The Wages of Destruction. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.
Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany's raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.
While one shouldn't excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.
A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.
Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.
It's true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.Replies: @German_reader, @Gerard2, @Epigon, @Grahamsno(G64)
Stalin had Kulik’s wife kidnapped and shot, he also had his chief of staff’s wife shot and Molotov’s wife narrowly escaped being shot and many other high ranking officials wives were shot. None of these guys dared protest Stalin was the boss from hell probably the worst boss in history he used to regularly humiliate Kruschev by emptying his pipe on his bald head!
2. Russia
3. France
4. Ukraine
5. Germany
6. UK
7. China
8 Romania
9. PolandReplies: @Dmitry, @Mikhail
A follow-up asks a % breakdown of Jews and non-Jews from each of these countries?
Well, French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF, to Holocaust survivors in the US), and they were defeated countries not allies of Germany. So my guess is that Hungary is going to have to go a very long way to ingratiate itself with the US/Israel to avoid a massive settlement.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Grahamsno(G64)
It is a very sweet deal in the case of SNCF
No business like the Shoah business
https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/questions-over-fairness-of-new-french-reparations/
The Chinese should just call their bluff and deport all 11 million of them to Sweden, a win, win situation the Chinese get rid of a troublesome minority and Sweden finally gets it chance to become the Islamic Emirate of Sweden. Hypercuckery in action.
She’s also raising a bastard. I can’t stand women who voluntarily raise bastards. It tells you how degenerate the west is that this fact wasn’t even noticed something unthinkable outside the west – a female head of State raising a bastard!
Anglo-Canada is a fake country.
https://twitter.com/JoustPosting/status/1110037689322098688
It should have been Britain’s Siberia.
https://twitter.com/JoustPosting/status/1110037689322098688
It should have been Britain's Siberia.
http://www.highgatefleetsystems.com/wiki/images/c/c1/UnitedKingdomFlag.pngReplies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
While I don’t really disagree with the sentiment, how does this immigration chart prove that? IIRC, Canadians in the pre-WWI period were already beginning to diverge from the UK (more so than Australia and NZ where immigration was primarily Anglo-Celtic) due to non-British immigration from Europe.
In defense of the oft-criticized Ukrainians . . .
Poland is first in line. Other countries in Eastern Europe like Ukraine and Belarus will come next. But they unlike Poland are not 'ripe' yet for the racket. Ukraine is too poor and politically precarious, so in the mean time the Banderites, the true Jew killers of Eastern Europe, are being nourished and encouraged to taint Ukraine forever with Nazism and make Ukraine easy picking in the future. Belarus is under Putin's protective umbrella. Jewish claims against Belarus would push it closer to Russia. Perhaps Putin could ask his buddy Netanyahu to make such claims. At some point we will see Slovakia being hit really hard because Slovakia was the most enthusiastic country in Europe with respect to Nazi Jewish policies.
Poland was drawn (willingly) into the American sphere of influence with no alternatives left. To make it worse Poland was put (put itself) on the course of conflict with Germany and EU. The recent Polish claims about restitutions from Germany are part of it. It is really just a psy-op directed at Polish public opinion to bring them down to the level of the Jewish vindictive ethics to make them more appreciative of Jewish claims leaving a false promise that once Germany pays (which will not happen) paying the Jews will be easier. Compare that with the letter of reconciliation "We forgive and ask for forgiveness" of 1965 by Polish Bishops to their German counterparts which represents the true spirit of Polish Catholicism.
Some Poles also entertain illusory rationalization that the Jewish claims will be offset by purchases of American (and Israeli) armaments which they want to buy anyway. Poles go through the standard steps of denial. And they are afraid to talk about it because of fear of being accused of antisemitism.
One may wonder to what extent the prying off V4 countries from EU and creating the illusory vision of the Intermarium and the vilification of Russia are part of the long term strategy to settle the Holocaust financial claims. When you think about it, whatever Israel and the Jewry are doing to these countries is good for Russia in the long term.Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
From your link;
Oh boy conditions for the perfect Scam, this’s basically a blank Cheque the Poles are royally screwed. The Germans already payed them for the atrocities committed in Poland and now the Poles who didn’t even have a government have to pay them. And the Jews wonder why they are universally reviled.
My point is that this process would have been much faster had Ukrainians, Italians and other non-Anglos not come to Canada en masse.
There is a diaspora Ukrainian in the current Canadian (Liberal) government however most Ukrainians vote Conservative in Canada and tend to oppose non-European immigration.
On this, I agree. Canada was fairly unsettled when the Ukrainians arrived; they found virgin lands in the west and turned them into prosperous farms.
In all three countries this was dismantled in the generation after the war.
I agree that singling out Ukrainian-Canadians is silly. There was the matter of how the war itself radically transformed attitudes for the worse, and with respect to Canada in particular obviously French-Canadians were much more invested in pushing multiculturalism (a policy formally enacted by the current PM's father).
They did play some role--a recurring problem with non-foundational populations is a tendency to interpret restrictionist legislation as a personal insult. Fortunately this tendency typically fades as the generations pass with everyone other than the Jews.Replies: @Dmitry
But tbh, I don't have a problem with Islamophobia in principle. I'm an Islamophobe myself. And Merkel's policy really has been disastrous and will lead to Germany's destruction. She is undoubtedly one of the worst figures in German history.Replies: @utu, @Grahamsno(G64)
Long time back when you could comment on all topics in the Guardian I asked a question about the cost/benefit analysis of mass Muslim migration to the west, I pointed out that on the cost side I saw a rapidly growing mound of dead bodies and I said that the benefits would have to be extraordinary to justify the cost could someone just point out the benefit to me as I seemed to have missed it. Complete silence but the comment was allowed to stand.
Allowing Muslim mass migration to any non Muslim society is literally suicidally stupid.
They also got many of the wrong kind of non-British immigrants from Europe whose descendants were opposed to the Anglo-French culture of Canada.
https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2014/08/origins-of-multiculturalism-in-canada-the-ukrainian-connection.html
Canadian Anglos created racially restrictionist immigration legislation before the war just like Anglos in Australia and America did.
In all three countries this was dismantled in the generation after the war.
I agree that singling out Ukrainian-Canadians is silly. There was the matter of how the war itself radically transformed attitudes for the worse, and with respect to Canada in particular obviously French-Canadians were much more invested in pushing multiculturalism (a policy formally enacted by the current PM’s father).
They did play some role–a recurring problem with non-foundational populations is a tendency to interpret restrictionist legislation as a personal insult. Fortunately this tendency typically fades as the generations pass with everyone other than the Jews.
Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
But in any case, Roosevelt's actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Hyperborean, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Konstantin
It’s not widely known as well that Germany had advanced TV network, including broadcasting of 1936 Olympics and even soccer matches for wounded soldiers in hospitals during WWII. Extremely efficient media propagandists like Goebbels would’ve ensured 3rd Reich media domination in the post-war world.
But yes, there were some early television programmes in 1930s Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMecO38MZCc
from 0.52 onwards there's a "comedian" joking about Konzertlager.Replies: @songbird
Apartheid was a good thing by the way.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Konstantin, @anonymous coward
They shouldn’t as they started to settle in the area pretty much at the same time as latvians
Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930's don't have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.Replies: @Gerard2, @Konstantin, @Konstantin
iirc Goebbels disliked television, he thought it wasn’t as suitable for propaganda as cinema.
But yes, there were some early television programmes in 1930s Germany:
from 0.52 onwards there’s a “comedian” joking about Konzertlager.
The history of TV with regard to the Overton window. The global reach of a show like"Hercules" or "Baywatch." The effect of American television shows like "Dallas" on communist Eastern Europe. Streaming. High definition. The widescreen aspect ratio of modern TVs. Not to mention, the budget of shows like "Game of Thrones", about $15 million per episode.
At least, as a vehicle for promulgating leftist politics, it seems pretty effective. Perhaps, the reverse would not be true.
But yes, there were some early television programmes in 1930s Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMecO38MZCc
from 0.52 onwards there's a "comedian" joking about Konzertlager.Replies: @songbird
No doubt, he would change his mind today, if he understood any number of factors.
The history of TV with regard to the Overton window. The global reach of a show like”Hercules” or “Baywatch.” The effect of American television shows like “Dallas” on communist Eastern Europe. Streaming. High definition. The widescreen aspect ratio of modern TVs. Not to mention, the budget of shows like “Game of Thrones”, about $15 million per episode.
At least, as a vehicle for promulgating leftist politics, it seems pretty effective. Perhaps, the reverse would not be true.
ZOG and refuge in audacity
Starting in 1962, he was on the staff of Senator Brewster, along with Pelosi. They have been in Washington before the decline of the US even started (at least, if you take the short view of 1965 being the staring point.) That is really quite amazing to think about - and in all that time, they have only become more successful.
https://twitter.com/JoustPosting/status/1110037689322098688
It should have been Britain's Siberia.
http://www.highgatefleetsystems.com/wiki/images/c/c1/UnitedKingdomFlag.pngReplies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
The Trudeaus should have been sent into the diamond mines of Nanavut and fed the nutritious byproducts of the seal harvest.
Regarding the rest.
Obviously people tend to believe in things which are good for them. Minorities will believe that granting minority rights is morally superior to encouraging assimilation.
People will explicitly use such utilitarian arguments, even if they have no relevance to the question at hand. For example religious people will often cite the numerous studies about religious people being happier, with more children, lower suicide rates, etc. Hungarian leftists regularly use arguments that multiculturalism would be good for the Hungarian minorities, who would benefit from minority rights etc.
That’s not “cynicism.” People are not very self-aware, and they will sincerely believe in their ideologies. So poor people will sincerely believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they will slowly tend to a belief in the magical powers of low taxes and free markets. There will certainly be a lag: people will keep their beliefs longer than they serve them. But they tend to beliefs which serve them. (More idealistic people less so. It’s a tendency, a stochastic rule.)
Jews, of course, explicitly use the argument that multiculturalism is good for Jews. They will use it when arguing with non-Jews, which shows that they are not totally aware of the fact that it’s not really an argument, and for a gentile, it’s not even a fallacious pseudo-argument.
Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.
So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?
Anyway, Jews tend to move to ideologies which they perceive to be good for them. They perceive ideologies to be good for them if they were objectively good for them in the recent past. There is some delay in perception, and ideologies have some staying power for a long time even beyond that, especially among the more committed adherents.
I’m not sure it’s productive to continue this.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
I’ve seen you refer to yourself as this, which is a good sign, since it shows some self-awareness. Normie brain does not chase their own tail on endless strange conspiracy theories. This makes your comments entertaining, so when you start projecting and then attacking autism it seems like you are engaging in self-hatred.
I like your comments generally, but you need people point out your blindspots and overliteralism.
Of course, the ideologies can be more attractive to some demographics for this reason.
But to reduce the reason people believed Marxism to “Jewish racial self-interest”, is nonsense.
You’ll have to explain all non-Jews, from Engels or Lenin, or China, et al, had some separate reason for believing Marxism.
If people believe everything for racial self-interest, why are there so many liberals today who want to punish their own races.
Also there is the fact for Marxism, that Marxism wanted to dissolve Jews as a separate nationality, and was largely successful to do that where it was an official ideology. Moreover, Jews which believed Marxism, usually did not have group identity as Jews, and were effectively acolytes of a new religion. Marx himself had an attitude to Jews like Ron Unz on here.
A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire's term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.
Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH, @reiner Tor
In all three countries this was dismantled in the generation after the war.
I agree that singling out Ukrainian-Canadians is silly. There was the matter of how the war itself radically transformed attitudes for the worse, and with respect to Canada in particular obviously French-Canadians were much more invested in pushing multiculturalism (a policy formally enacted by the current PM's father).
They did play some role--a recurring problem with non-foundational populations is a tendency to interpret restrictionist legislation as a personal insult. Fortunately this tendency typically fades as the generations pass with everyone other than the Jews.Replies: @Dmitry
Remember there is a lot of difference of Ukrainians who emigrate to Canada at least since the 1990s-2018, and Canadians who were descended from some kind of Second World War refugees.
Ukrainians which emigrated from 1990s-2018 to Canada, are Ukrainian people in the sense we understand. (And a lot of them identify, kind of accurately, as Russians-Canadians).
If you go to highschool in Ukraine/USSR, then they will be “Ukrainian-Canadian” in meaningful sense.
People and their descendants which emigrated from Second World War.: will be more Canadians of Ukrainian ancestry or blood. The soul and culture is more like any other born Canadians.
I like your comments generally, but you need people point out your blindspots and overliteralism. Of course, the ideologies can be more attractive to some demographics for this reason.
But to reduce the reason people believed Marxism to "Jewish racial self-interest", is nonsense.
You'll have to explain all non-Jews, from Engels or Lenin, or China, et al, had some separate reason for believing Marxism.
If people believe everything for racial self-interest, why are there so many liberals today who want to punish their own races.
Also there is the fact for Marxism, that Marxism wanted to dissolve Jews as a separate nationality, and was largely successful to do that where it was an official ideology. Moreover, Jews which believed Marxism, usually did not have group identity as Jews, and were effectively acolytes of a new religion. Marx himself had an attitude to Jews like Ron Unz on here.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @reiner Tor
Engels was a sex-crazed degenerate and Lenin was a one man coalition of the fringes (German, Swedish, Kalmyk, Jewish) to use Steve Sailer’s term.
A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire’s term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.
Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.
It’s often asserted that Jewish communists never had a Jewish identity, but it’s often difficult to tell, because Jews don’t tell others about their identity. (Nor do they necessarily have the self-awareness to know it themselves if they are motivated by their ethnic identity.) For example Molotov’s wife showed zero signs of a Jewish identity, until she met Golda Meyersson (later Meir) in 1948 and immediately broke in tears. The Moscow synagogue was swarmed by a crowd of Jews several times its capacity when she arrived there - presumably this included any number of Jews who had previously never shown a sign of Jewish ethnic identity. Voroshilov’s wife similarly astonished her family members in 1948 when she announced that “finally we have a country.” At first they didn’t understand who the “we” referred to - she hadn’t shown any signs of a Jewish ethnic identity before. The Hungarian minister of culture (and secretary responsible for culture in the Political Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers’ Party) started out as a Zionist, while the communist vice chairman of the Hungarian National Bank (largely responsible for the indebtedness of the country by 1990) quickly discovered his Jewish roots in 1990 and left for Israel.
Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education - they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1109948025840037889Replies: @songbird
Hoyer is a dinosaur. He will turn 80, this year, if he is lucky. But there are at least three people older than him in the House, including Maxine Waters, though none are record holders. He is older than Pelosi.
Starting in 1962, he was on the staff of Senator Brewster, along with Pelosi. They have been in Washington before the decline of the US even started (at least, if you take the short view of 1965 being the staring point.) That is really quite amazing to think about – and in all that time, they have only become more successful.
A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire's term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.
Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH, @reiner Tor
Lenin had a lot of mixed blood in his family tree. No-one in Russia of the time, nor Lenin himself, would perceive Lenin in terms like that though.
He did not belong to any “minority” nationality or culture. He was a nationally Russian, middle class dude. Perhaps having mixed, incompatible blood has unconsciously influenced his psychology though. But in the conscious sphere, this was not part of his identity or a conscious motive for his fanatical life.
The problem with Lenin is that his psychology, was a bit like Osama bin Laden.
Of course, and as in your example, self-interest, and not even economic self-interest, let alone racial self-interest, can not explain common political behaviours.
Marx and Marxism’s attitude to Jews and Judaism, is not unlike Ron Unz on here. He saw Jews a problem and fundamental obstacle, and wanted to remove and dissolve Jews as a separate people as a precondition for communism.
But Marxism was a very seductive religion, which passionately believed, often in support of self-interest, but also sometimes against self interest. For Jews, it was useful of course, Marxism was useful a offering a path to dissolve their separate identity and assimilate to universal society.
But in fact, many bourgeois people seduced by Marxism, even as it would mean loss of their fortunes. Marxism was something seductive, even when it contradicts all your self-interest.
The best dismantling of Marxism as an actual belief system (and this – in the world of philosophy – is where ideology has to actually be defeated) were not written until after 1917, unfortunately.
The leader of the ‘Center’ party (quasi-libertarian virtue signallers), a red-headed woman, has claimed on TV that 30 million immigrants is fine. Now part of the center-left government, hooray.
A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire's term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.
Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH, @reiner Tor
An awful lot of leading Bolsheviks were married to Jewish women too
I usually just buy books at Waterstones and Foyles when I am there, but I would like to know if there is a interesting selection of books somewhere that I have missed.Replies: @Pericles
Waterstones bought up most of the old giants, but the stores are still around.
Apart from Foyle’s, I’ve always enjoyed Hatchards (very near Fortnum & Masons), and also recommend a visit to Waterstones Gower Street, near UCL. I’d also recommend looking through https://www.abebooks.co.uk/ and see if there are any interesting antiquarians to visit.
Apart from Foyle's, I've always enjoyed Hatchards (very near Fortnum & Masons), and also recommend a visit to Waterstones Gower Street, near UCL. I'd also recommend looking through https://www.abebooks.co.uk/ and see if there are any interesting antiquarians to visit.Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
I think the version of these bookshops in London with the nicest and most spacious atmosphere for reading inside, at least for tourists (I don’t think the books are different though), is the Piccadilly version (opposite side of street than Yoshino Restaurant).
Note that the books are not necessarily the same for the 'name level stores'. For example, the Gower Street store is more of an academic bookshop, as hinted by its location. Many many shelves of obscure graduate textbooks to go through if you like me enjoy that sort of thing. (Similar to Foyle's in this respect.) Likewise, I've found some rare releases in Hatchards that I've never seen anywhere else.
I haven't visited London in quite a while so things may admittedly have changed. Still worth a look IMO.
Speaking of antiquarians in London, here is one I've wanted to visit: https://www.maggs.com/
Depends on your level of commitment though.Replies: @Dmitry
Apart from Foyle's, I've always enjoyed Hatchards (very near Fortnum & Masons), and also recommend a visit to Waterstones Gower Street, near UCL. I'd also recommend looking through https://www.abebooks.co.uk/ and see if there are any interesting antiquarians to visit.Replies: @Dmitry, @Hyperborean
Thanks.
And large and spacious Piccadilly Waterstones, with a restaurant with a nice view in the top (and some different language books, like Russian, if you are interested), is next to the small Hatchards. So if you buy a book in the latter, can read it in the former.
The London Review of Books shop is also not bad
Do you mean that huge skyscraper-like bookstore? I think it used to be named Simpsons before it was sold.
Note that the books are not necessarily the same for the ‘name level stores’. For example, the Gower Street store is more of an academic bookshop, as hinted by its location. Many many shelves of obscure graduate textbooks to go through if you like me enjoy that sort of thing. (Similar to Foyle’s in this respect.) Likewise, I’ve found some rare releases in Hatchards that I’ve never seen anywhere else.
I haven’t visited London in quite a while so things may admittedly have changed. Still worth a look IMO.
Speaking of antiquarians in London, here is one I’ve wanted to visit: https://www.maggs.com/
Depends on your level of commitment though.
Socialist bookshop near British Museum, is disgusting though. It’s only books supporting Chavez, trade unions, Chomsky and Allende. They have the same trash sold by Waterstones, but imagine concentrating it all into a very small building.
Note that the books are not necessarily the same for the 'name level stores'. For example, the Gower Street store is more of an academic bookshop, as hinted by its location. Many many shelves of obscure graduate textbooks to go through if you like me enjoy that sort of thing. (Similar to Foyle's in this respect.) Likewise, I've found some rare releases in Hatchards that I've never seen anywhere else.
I haven't visited London in quite a while so things may admittedly have changed. Still worth a look IMO.
Speaking of antiquarians in London, here is one I've wanted to visit: https://www.maggs.com/
Depends on your level of commitment though.Replies: @Dmitry
Yes I think so. It’s the multistory Waterstones opposite side of Piccadilly from Yoshino restaurant (next to Fortnam and Mason, Hatchards).
The only difference about the books, is maybe the Russian language books they have. Otherwise, I guess it’s probably the same book selection as other versions of Waterstones.
But atmosphere of this spacious 1930s building is the nicest for reading in London I think.
I’ve visited as well, although it was years in the past. I don’t think it’s such a pleasant space inside. But yes, I think you can be right there is a lot of selection there and perhaps technical books .
From wikipedia, which cites the 2017 Latvian government statistics: Latvian Non-citizens have 90 days within 180 days Schengen visa and Russian visa and then a few Latin American and other minor countries.
Latvian citizens in contrast have access to over 150-ish countries if one excludes the Schengen region.
Estonian non-citizens have similar limited visa access as Latvian non-citizens.
Estonian Non-citizens are around 6-8% of the population (although it was 40% at independence), around an equal amount are citizens of foreign countries (mainly Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine). I don’t know many emigrated compared to being naturalised.
After legal changes Non-citizen children born at independence in Estonia and Latvia are able to obtain citizenship.
-----
My own opinion is, if the Latvians and Estonians wish to solve their Russian problem then they should advocate for freedom for movement in Schengen area for non-citizens.
I think many Baltic Russian-speakers would mind less if they were able to go to Germany.Replies: @LatW
Well, maybe Western countries can straight up offer them residence?
No, Germany is not in the cards for the remaining non-citizens as most of them are too attached to the Baltic states or neighboring countries like Belarus. Some of them deliberately do not take out the passport to be able to travel east without a visa to see their relatives. Those who wanted to go to the West already got the passport in 2004 (slightly questionable MO, lol, but ok, let’s not nitpick). No, for them moving West doesn’t make sense, they have their Russophone friend and family network, paid out apartments, they don’t want to be uprooted, learn English, pay exorbitant rents in the West, forget it. Moving is not that easy past age 35 or so.
Also, what's your answer to Dmitry's question:
No, Germany is not in the cards for the remaining non-citizens as most of them are too attached to the Baltic states or neighboring countries like Belarus. Some of them deliberately do not take out the passport to be able to travel east without a visa to see their relatives. Those who wanted to go to the West already got the passport in 2004 (slightly questionable MO, lol, but ok, let's not nitpick). No, for them moving West doesn't make sense, they have their Russophone friend and family network, paid out apartments, they don't want to be uprooted, learn English, pay exorbitant rents in the West, forget it. Moving is not that easy past age 35 or so.Replies: @Hyperborean
Well, then I suppose there is not an easy solution.
Also, what’s your answer to Dmitry’s question:
Re: recent wave of Ukrainian immigrants.
While I agree that N.Euros and E.Euros are not entitled to each others’ space, population, any other resource (and btw N.Euro, Anglo American societies while certainly well cultivated are far from perfect – too much OCD, industry related allergies, obsession with process (taking it too far, that is), physical issues such as lack of robustness among the swpl, that most E.Euros typically don’t have), Americans are very lucky that Ukrainians are coming. I know this might offend as you want from the Isles or Iceland but they are the last Europeans who will be coming. They are also more fertile. Other than very small towns and farming communities the shortage of white kids is visible. Cops are leaving cities because it’s a raw deal for them. The American carnage continues… 🙁
But the Ukes will become cops and caretakers. That’s a loss for Ukraine, and a gain for the US, even if you don’t feel that way.
Ofc, they didn’t. Be careful, dear, people here read anthropology occasionally. If you meant the Wends, nobody knows who they were, could’ve been a coastal Finnic people, nobody’s seen them and they don’t count. If you meant the Ruyan, then yes great people but closer to Polish or even ancient Prussian than Russian. And they lived in Prussia or Germany.
Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930’s don’t have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.
Similar thing with Freiberga( is she even living in Latvia now?) - all just Nazi scum families who escaped to the US, became (mildly-qualified) nutjobs.....surely these puppet countries could elect somebody who has actually lived in Latvia, opposed but "endured" the Soviet years and would be a better representative...instead of one just showing up how demented and plastic the country is?
Not to mention you have a Russian president now..a traitor to his father but still the president of Latvia
No voting rights, makes your comments about the options in migration the ethnic russians irrelevant...it more than cancels out the latter. A cynical exploitation of ethnic russian docile, hardworking but relative political apathy is also disgusting.
The most obvious and rather mild solution is to have Latvians experience exactly same apartheid for the same number of years (currently 28 years).Replies: @reiner Tor, @LatW
Roosh’s eulogy for his deceased sister: http://www.rooshv.com/eulogy
While I agree that N.Euros and E.Euros are not entitled to each others' space, population, any other resource (and btw N.Euro, Anglo American societies while certainly well cultivated are far from perfect - too much OCD, industry related allergies, obsession with process (taking it too far, that is), physical issues such as lack of robustness among the swpl, that most E.Euros typically don't have), Americans are very lucky that Ukrainians are coming. I know this might offend as you want from the Isles or Iceland but they are the last Europeans who will be coming. They are also more fertile. Other than very small towns and farming communities the shortage of white kids is visible. Cops are leaving cities because it's a raw deal for them. The American carnage continues... :(
But the Ukes will become cops and caretakers. That's a loss for Ukraine, and a gain for the US, even if you don't feel that way.Replies: @Adam
America should have remained an essentially Northern European protestant country, as should have Canada. A lot of harm would have been avoided had they done so. People forget the low level ethnic warfare that existed between different groups of European-Americans for well over a century. We did overcome it eventually, but the resulting Euromutt white identity was a prelude to a totally civic identity.
I’m not a fool though, that ship has sailed long ago. I would take ten million Ukrainians if it meant I didn’t have to deal with Somalians at my doorstep. Though even that would not make a lick of difference. America doesn’t belong to anyone anymore. It’s a marketplace where people like AP can makes lots of money and keep their rooted old world identity while the founding stock of the country is largely left in the dust.
Lol how can you say AP anything less than a perfect American in what he writes online? He believes in free market capitalism, private medical insurance and the resurrection of Jesus.
That is what defines America, then America is an abomination that needs to be abolished.
What was your impression of America, and things you see with your own eyes, from visiting the country? I have a lot of mixed impressions, as much good as bad.
It is common here to mock nostalgia-filled Sovoks, but the longer titular Americans dream of a world they lost a long time ago, the worse the harder it will be for them in the future to organise productively.
I like your comments generally, but you need people point out your blindspots and overliteralism. Of course, the ideologies can be more attractive to some demographics for this reason.
But to reduce the reason people believed Marxism to "Jewish racial self-interest", is nonsense.
You'll have to explain all non-Jews, from Engels or Lenin, or China, et al, had some separate reason for believing Marxism.
If people believe everything for racial self-interest, why are there so many liberals today who want to punish their own races.
Also there is the fact for Marxism, that Marxism wanted to dissolve Jews as a separate nationality, and was largely successful to do that where it was an official ideology. Moreover, Jews which believed Marxism, usually did not have group identity as Jews, and were effectively acolytes of a new religion. Marx himself had an attitude to Jews like Ron Unz on here.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @reiner Tor
I don’t think it’s a productive conversation. Have a nice Tuesday!
Our current “leaders” are pathetic, but hopefully the next leaders in Europe over the next decades will heed this advice from our supposed enemies who are more realistic:
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1143407.shtml
A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire's term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.
Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH, @reiner Tor
The vast majority of communist believers were underdogs, who hoped that their (or their groups’) positions would improve under the coming communist utopia. This is true of the majority of communists (who were poor), and some more elite third world leaders (though communist leaders were usually at best middle class). Jews fit this pattern to an extent, but economically speaking they were already top dogs.
It’s often asserted that Jewish communists never had a Jewish identity, but it’s often difficult to tell, because Jews don’t tell others about their identity. (Nor do they necessarily have the self-awareness to know it themselves if they are motivated by their ethnic identity.) For example Molotov’s wife showed zero signs of a Jewish identity, until she met Golda Meyersson (later Meir) in 1948 and immediately broke in tears. The Moscow synagogue was swarmed by a crowd of Jews several times its capacity when she arrived there – presumably this included any number of Jews who had previously never shown a sign of Jewish ethnic identity. Voroshilov’s wife similarly astonished her family members in 1948 when she announced that “finally we have a country.” At first they didn’t understand who the “we” referred to – she hadn’t shown any signs of a Jewish ethnic identity before. The Hungarian minister of culture (and secretary responsible for culture in the Political Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers’ Party) started out as a Zionist, while the communist vice chairman of the Hungarian National Bank (largely responsible for the indebtedness of the country by 1990) quickly discovered his Jewish roots in 1990 and left for Israel.
Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education – they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.
It would be quite a strange "American white nationalism". Perhaps later, when awhole system collapsed, blacks would want to blame white partly originators of the disaster. They could say these were secret white nationalists following a white nationalist conspiracy. . .Replies: @Dmitry, @reiner Tor
It’s often asserted that Jewish communists never had a Jewish identity, but it’s often difficult to tell, because Jews don’t tell others about their identity. (Nor do they necessarily have the self-awareness to know it themselves if they are motivated by their ethnic identity.) For example Molotov’s wife showed zero signs of a Jewish identity, until she met Golda Meyersson (later Meir) in 1948 and immediately broke in tears. The Moscow synagogue was swarmed by a crowd of Jews several times its capacity when she arrived there - presumably this included any number of Jews who had previously never shown a sign of Jewish ethnic identity. Voroshilov’s wife similarly astonished her family members in 1948 when she announced that “finally we have a country.” At first they didn’t understand who the “we” referred to - she hadn’t shown any signs of a Jewish ethnic identity before. The Hungarian minister of culture (and secretary responsible for culture in the Political Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers’ Party) started out as a Zionist, while the communist vice chairman of the Hungarian National Bank (largely responsible for the indebtedness of the country by 1990) quickly discovered his Jewish roots in 1990 and left for Israel.
Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education - they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
Marxism was produced by Jewish culture assimilated to German philosophy. It contains Jewish eschatology (as also Hegel), and is written in the clever way to disarm 19th century scepticism and rationality.
Educated Jews, were not particularly attracted by Russian nihilism, and earlier socialism, and their economic interest would be a reforming meritocracy bourgeoisie ruled country, as in England.
But Marxism was cerebral enough for many (and many parts were not correctly dismantled until much more intelligent men published like Hayek) and contained echos of their religious culture (for both Jews and Christians, who had recently secularized – usually one generation earlier). People who believed Marxism, actually believed it. You don’t need any secret motives, as it’s a very well designed and persuasive system, which seems to explain everything, and also satisfies the same religious needs which had been lost by recent secularization.
In terms of racial interest, it offered explicitly Jews, to dissolve their Jewish racial position, and assimilate to a new, living religion (emotionally similar to Christianity, but with impact in a real world).
Unlike generations of Jews before – Jews who believed Marxism, intermarried with Slavs without sadness, and saw Jews as a religious problem, dissolved the Jewish religion, and started to dissolve all customs which historically separated Jews from Russians, Ukrainians, etc.
Obviously most Jews were not Marxist, but once in USSR, their dividers from society are constantly dissolved, and they can’t follow any of the primitive Jewish differentiators (like circumcision). Eventually 80% are marrying non-Jews, and without assortative mating (Israel today is full of gopniks from all shits of the former USSR).
Is this racial interest?
Equivalent is if some American intellectual whites, partly for their self-interest, find fashionable an fanatical new ideology, written by a white racial-intermmarryier, which along with many other goals, aims to dissolve “whites” as the separate identity, and at the same time they start to intermarry with blacks. Some of the “intellectuals” are politically powerful as result of revolution, and join as part of the multiracial rulers of a country where dividers of “white” separate identity are removed, so with a result that most whites marry with blacks, and whites have lost white identity in some predictable authoritarian dystopia.
And then after various genocides, some of whites change their opinion, and go to a white country, but by this time they do not know white customs and have a lot of black blood, and are not allowed to marry official whites in the traditional religion.
It would be quite a strange “American white nationalism”.
Perhaps later, when awhole system collapsed, blacks would want to blame white partly originators of the disaster. They could say these were secret white nationalists following a white nationalist conspiracy. . .
People always honestly believe and feel things. Poor people honestly believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they honestly start believing in laissez-faire capitalism, low taxes and other similar things. Most people don’t even notice how conveniently their sincere-to-God beliefs tend to follow their interests.
Another example might be women marrying for money: they very often honestly fall in love with the millionaires. You need an explanation why more Jews followed it than gentiles, proportionately, when Jews were richer, on average.Replies: @Dmitry
Craig Murray did an update on the Skripal story a few weeks ago. From the new information that has come out, we now know that the first person to find the Skripals on that park bench was — I kid you not — the Chief Nurse of the British Army! Murray also writes that a prominent BBC journalist working on the story, Mark Urban, was in the army with Skripal’s MI6 handler, Pablo Miller. And this is merely the tip of the iceberg.
My best guess at this time is that Boshirov and Petrov, the two GRU grunts, were in Salisbury on some shady business or other, possibly related to the NATO exercise that was held in the area at the time, and that they were framed by the British government to turn up the heat on Russia. The Skripals were probably in on it and were not poisoned by Novichok. There are some loose ends to this explanation, but taking a few steps back from the hysteria, I don’t find it so very odd.
As with the Iraqi WMD hoax, and now the Russiagate conspiracy theory, this story shows that, far from honoring the democratic principles that they claim to defend, our governments are hard at work subverting the press for their own uses and keeping the man on the street actively disinformed about what happens in his country. Just think of what an enormous betrayal that is.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/03/pure-ten-points-i-just-cant-believe-about-the-official-skripal-narrative/
Just some abstract concepts though, not real life.
What was your impression of America, and things you see with your own eyes, from visiting the country? I have a lot of mixed impressions, as much good as bad.
It would be quite a strange "American white nationalism". Perhaps later, when awhole system collapsed, blacks would want to blame white partly originators of the disaster. They could say these were secret white nationalists following a white nationalist conspiracy. . .Replies: @Dmitry, @reiner Tor
This meant to write “gopniks from all shitholes of the former USSR”, especially Ukraine – but shits sounds good as well.
In the USSR, Jews had lower social status than normal people, and they didn’t have the same economic advantages as they have in capitalism. Combined with geographic restrictions and ban on their religion – this was the way to make them mass intermarry with Ukrainian gopniks, which they have done, from the descendants you can see in Israeli ghettos.
It would be quite a strange "American white nationalism". Perhaps later, when awhole system collapsed, blacks would want to blame white partly originators of the disaster. They could say these were secret white nationalists following a white nationalist conspiracy. . .Replies: @Dmitry, @reiner Tor
Did I ever say the opposite?
People always honestly believe and feel things. Poor people honestly believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they honestly start believing in laissez-faire capitalism, low taxes and other similar things. Most people don’t even notice how conveniently their sincere-to-God beliefs tend to follow their interests.
Another example might be women marrying for money: they very often honestly fall in love with the millionaires.
You need an explanation why more Jews followed it than gentiles, proportionately, when Jews were richer, on average.
1. It provided opportunity for Jews to dissolve their Jewish identity, and convert to a universal religion, in which the lamb will lie with the lion. If belonging to group is a burden, there is motive for many to dissolve the group. Interest of many Jews in the early 20th century, was to leave being Jews. A significant proportion of Jews in the early 20th century, did not enjoy being Jews. They were also mass converting to Christianity in this era, although Christianity was dying at the same time, while Marxism was a living faith, which would produce real external changes, such as a universal society in which they would be citizens of this beautiful future utopia (in which, according to Marx, you could go fish in the morning, and then debate philosophy in the afternoon). 2. Marxism is Jewish eschatology, transposed on German philosophy, and re-written in an materialist way that educated, "rational", post-19th century, people, can believe. I don't think Jews were disproportionately interested in Russian nihilism or the utopias of Charles Fourier. But Marx's vision is also Biblical, and is result of a Jewish writer who had rejected his ancestor's religion, but unconsciously transposed a lot of this religion onto a German philosophy, that itself had a biblical, supernatural structure (just God is revealing himself in Hegelian dialectics, hidden in economic history). Secular people (with Christian and Jewish parents) 100 years were not like secular people today, where even our great-grandparents were not actually religious. In the early 20th century, the rational part of the mind rejected religion, but the whole imagination and unconscious was still much more full of biblical visions and responded emotionally to theseReplies: @for-the-record
Damn. I certainly wasn’t expecting that from him.
People always honestly believe and feel things. Poor people honestly believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they honestly start believing in laissez-faire capitalism, low taxes and other similar things. Most people don’t even notice how conveniently their sincere-to-God beliefs tend to follow their interests.
Another example might be women marrying for money: they very often honestly fall in love with the millionaires. You need an explanation why more Jews followed it than gentiles, proportionately, when Jews were richer, on average.Replies: @Dmitry
I discussed in text above.
1. It provided opportunity for Jews to dissolve their Jewish identity, and convert to a universal religion, in which the lamb will lie with the lion.
If belonging to group is a burden, there is motive for many to dissolve the group.
Interest of many Jews in the early 20th century, was to leave being Jews. A significant proportion of Jews in the early 20th century, did not enjoy being Jews. They were also mass converting to Christianity in this era, although Christianity was dying at the same time, while Marxism was a living faith, which would produce real external changes, such as a universal society in which they would be citizens of this beautiful future utopia (in which, according to Marx, you could go fish in the morning, and then debate philosophy in the afternoon).
2. Marxism is Jewish eschatology, transposed on German philosophy, and re-written in an materialist way that educated, “rational”, post-19th century, people, can believe.
I don’t think Jews were disproportionately interested in Russian nihilism or the utopias of Charles Fourier. But Marx’s vision is also Biblical, and is result of a Jewish writer who had rejected his ancestor’s religion, but unconsciously transposed a lot of this religion onto a German philosophy, that itself had a biblical, supernatural structure (just God is revealing himself in Hegelian dialectics, hidden in economic history).
Secular people (with Christian and Jewish parents) 100 years were not like secular people today, where even our great-grandparents were not actually religious.
In the early 20th century, the rational part of the mind rejected religion, but the whole imagination and unconscious was still much more full of biblical visions and responded emotionally to these
Shlomo overload
What a ridiculous notion. How in the world do the AP’s of the US in any way hinder the development or ability of the ‘founding stock’ from maintaining their culture in the US? They vote alike (Republican I’m guessing), pray to the same Jesus in churches on Sunday (prefer incensed temples being one small difference), shop at the same stores, workout at the same health clubs and eventually will be playing golf and tennis at the same clubs. They, and especially their kids, speak the same English language on a day to day basis. American assimilation is all pervasive, a little bit of the old world charm is actually what a lot of Anglo-Saxons envy not having within their lives.
I don't claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I'm just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don't have that privilege.Replies: @LatW, @anonymous coward, @AP
The US is where different groups with different identities compete to make money. There’s no American culture and the English language is just a trade language. The titular ‘American nation’ has been reduced to just one of many groups in the US, which the ruling class and other nations are largely hostile to.
I don’t claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I’m just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don’t have that privilege.
And E.Euros have not been the most extractive of the US.
People such as AP do well anywhere because they're intelligent and are conscientious about their choices.
It's more of a class thing. And the titular nation has done nicely from the stock market rally and asset appreciation. Many founders of tech companies are Scots Irish & Anglos. Bezos' real name is Jorgensen, and the founder of Snapchat is like a 30 yo Anglo.
That they have chosen an ideological confrontation with the Anglo masses is sad and yes it's not a real nation anymore that way. Your original idea of the nation is totally fine by me. It would be smaller, with much less global appeal which I'm sure you'd prefer and probably competing with other sizable nations on the continent.
Apartheid was a good thing by the way.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Konstantin, @anonymous coward
Russian is a local Baltic language.
E.g., The city known as ‘Tartu’ was founded in 1030 by (the Russian ruler) Yaroslav I under the name of ‘Yuryev’.
The Baltic ethnicities and countries really only exist thanks to Russian magnanimity.
This is an incorrect statement, to put it mildly.
1. It provided opportunity for Jews to dissolve their Jewish identity, and convert to a universal religion, in which the lamb will lie with the lion. If belonging to group is a burden, there is motive for many to dissolve the group. Interest of many Jews in the early 20th century, was to leave being Jews. A significant proportion of Jews in the early 20th century, did not enjoy being Jews. They were also mass converting to Christianity in this era, although Christianity was dying at the same time, while Marxism was a living faith, which would produce real external changes, such as a universal society in which they would be citizens of this beautiful future utopia (in which, according to Marx, you could go fish in the morning, and then debate philosophy in the afternoon). 2. Marxism is Jewish eschatology, transposed on German philosophy, and re-written in an materialist way that educated, "rational", post-19th century, people, can believe. I don't think Jews were disproportionately interested in Russian nihilism or the utopias of Charles Fourier. But Marx's vision is also Biblical, and is result of a Jewish writer who had rejected his ancestor's religion, but unconsciously transposed a lot of this religion onto a German philosophy, that itself had a biblical, supernatural structure (just God is revealing himself in Hegelian dialectics, hidden in economic history). Secular people (with Christian and Jewish parents) 100 years were not like secular people today, where even our great-grandparents were not actually religious. In the early 20th century, the rational part of the mind rejected religion, but the whole imagination and unconscious was still much more full of biblical visions and responded emotionally to theseReplies: @for-the-record
Very coherent explanation of Jewish (disproportionate) propensity for Marxism, in fact it is quite similar to that in Yuri Slezkine’s The Jewish Century (strongly recommended if you haven’t already read it).
https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdfReplies: @for-the-record
I don't claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I'm just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don't have that privilege.Replies: @LatW, @anonymous coward, @AP
You have a point, it is much more competitive now, and yes it is rigged (but more along generational lines).
And E.Euros have not been the most extractive of the US.
People such as AP do well anywhere because they’re intelligent and are conscientious about their choices.
It’s more of a class thing. And the titular nation has done nicely from the stock market rally and asset appreciation. Many founders of tech companies are Scots Irish & Anglos. Bezos’ real name is Jorgensen, and the founder of Snapchat is like a 30 yo Anglo.
That they have chosen an ideological confrontation with the Anglo masses is sad and yes it’s not a real nation anymore that way. Your original idea of the nation is totally fine by me. It would be smaller, with much less global appeal which I’m sure you’d prefer and probably competing with other sizable nations on the continent.
It can be simply shown.
When parents of two different nationalities had children, they could choose one of two parents’ nationality for the children.
In families where one parent is Jewish and the other parent is not-Jewish, they would choose commonly not-Jewish nationality for their children.
One of my grandfather’s was Jewish as his mother was a Jewess (so in the most strict sense he was the Jew, as the mother is the only important criteria for Jews). So he was a real Jew. However, all his documents it is written, his nationality is Russian, because his parents’ chose his father’s nationality instead of his mother’s. They were not antisemitic. It was just better in the USSR, to be Russian, than to be Jew.
And this was ubiquitous for the Jews, you can see: in forums for people who want to apply for repatriation/work visas for Israel today, hundreds of people are complaining they had a Jewish ancestor, but their documentation does not correspond. People in the USSR, did not want their children to be Jews, when they had a choice.
Two major events composed near-entirely by jews, which instead of giving numerous ammunition to those lazily ascribing international jewry at work in everything...gives non-ending talk of Russia at work in everythingThe US spy ring in the 1940's/50's was near all jewish , but there was zero backlash for jewry....and a massive backlash for the USSRRussiagate is basically more jewish than Kosher-pie if you look at the personalities (alleged ) to have been involved (plus the odd guy from Azerbaijan), but what does it become instead of about the jews? All about RussiaYou can only praise the skill of the jewish lobby in the US for this act of misdirectionIt's similar brainwashing done on issues such as MH-17 getting downed .......people are lead to subconsiously eliminate all sensible thinking processes .I would guess 95% of westerners hearing about it never had any thought whatsoever about the Ukrainian military, intelligence and political establishment and what role they may have played in it. Because it's an irrelevant prostitute , fake country ....the cognitive processes isn't there and they are lead to believe it was either "the west" or "Russia" who could have done it..and it couldn't possibly be the west.All the while ANY technical knowledge or critical thinking are eliminated
Of course, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to the idea of accepting non-Jewish immigrants. After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.Replies: @reiner Tor, @German_reader
Thanks.
I didn’t read this book about Jews though, and probably it would not be so interesting for me.
I’m interested in any book recommended about Marx and Marxism, though. Generally, I quite like reading any textbooks or essays on Marxism (it always seems to be me, the 19th century’s worst hacker, and Marxism like a beautifully designed, computer virus).
In English, I found this one which looks good :
https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdf
https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdf
I read that decades before you were born, so once you have read it you can refresh my memory if it says anything memorable.
Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930's don't have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.Replies: @Gerard2, @Konstantin, @Konstantin
I would be careful of making stupid statements if from a country (Latvia)that has an American Prime Minister ,who still has American citizenship ,and has lived in the country for 50 years less then some great people who built the country(but yet this piece of shit seeks to impose his views on them-with his best Delaware accent)
Similar thing with Freiberga( is she even living in Latvia now?) – all just Nazi scum families who escaped to the US, became (mildly-qualified) nutjobs…..surely these puppet countries could elect somebody who has actually lived in Latvia, opposed but “endured” the Soviet years and would be a better representative…instead of one just showing up how demented and plastic the country is?
Not to mention you have a Russian president now..a traitor to his father but still the president of Latvia
No voting rights, makes your comments about the options in migration the ethnic russians irrelevant…it more than cancels out the latter. A cynical exploitation of ethnic russian docile, hardworking but relative political apathy is also disgusting.
About a zillion jews in the west seem to have experienced “delayed” learning of their Jewish ancestry. Nothing USSR-centric about this type of thing at all. I would guess into the hundreds of thousands to a few million of those with both parents jewish who have anglised their name to the point of eliminating all Jewishness in it. I would guess they felt holding an outright jewish name would have harmed their chances of upward social mobility.
Two major events composed near-entirely by jews, which instead of giving numerous ammunition to those lazily ascribing international jewry at work in everything…gives non-ending talk of Russia at work in everything
The US spy ring in the 1940’s/50’s was near all jewish , but there was zero backlash for jewry….and a massive backlash for the USSR
Russiagate is basically more jewish than Kosher-pie if you look at the personalities (alleged ) to have been involved (plus the odd guy from Azerbaijan), but what does it become instead of about the jews? All about Russia
You can only praise the skill of the jewish lobby in the US for this act of misdirection
It’s similar brainwashing done on issues such as MH-17 getting downed …….people are lead to subconsiously eliminate all sensible thinking processes .I would guess 95% of westerners hearing about it never had any thought whatsoever about the Ukrainian military, intelligence and political establishment and what role they may have played in it. Because it’s an irrelevant prostitute , fake country ….the cognitive processes isn’t there and they are lead to believe it was either “the west” or “Russia” who could have done it..and it couldn’t possibly be the west.All the while ANY technical knowledge or critical thinking are eliminated
Actually it’s a universal phenomenon around the world (e.g. the children of the Russian-German marriage in Russia will be Russian, and in Germany will be Germans). The social status of Jews in the USSR is quite measured statistically-the ecological niche of Soviet Jews was the “middle class” (and rather the upper middle class). The average income of Soviet Jews and their level of education (and, accordingly, their social status) was noticeably higher than the average income/level of education of the rest of population.
I don't claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I'm just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don't have that privilege.Replies: @LatW, @anonymous coward, @AP
AP knows nothing at all about the Ukraine. He has a Galician identity. I.e., a Jewish-Polish mutt.
What about using DNA testing?
Of course, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to the idea of accepting non-Jewish immigrants. After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.
Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.Replies: @songbird, @Mr. XYZ, @Dmitry
Of course, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to the idea of accepting non-Jewish immigrants. After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.Replies: @reiner Tor, @German_reader
Why would it be terrible?
I don't claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I'm just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don't have that privilege.Replies: @LatW, @anonymous coward, @AP
My people never took welfare, paid taxes and in the case of my father employed dozens of well-paid Americans in his company. They also vote Republican and for Trump for the same reasons most people here did. But yes – my father in his 70s says he’ll be fine but we or our children can always go to Ukraine if the Left sinks America.
“…despite Irish and Royalist black propaganda otherwise.”
When you’re a common enemy of the Irish and the Royalists, you might rethink your position.
I guessed correctly! 🙂
Gaming PC performance requirements have to do with the quality of the monitor. The AnandTech site ‘guides’ menu shows recommended boards for 2019…a Radeon RX 570 for 150 bucks.
You should be thinking about a NVME SSD…expensive but almost mandatory on a new system. I wouldn’t buy a computer without an ssd.
I will say for now that the following come to mind as very good books
For a one volume political summary, that focuses on 1848-1861, I highly recommend 'The Impending Crisis' by historian by David Potter.
For a longer summary, I quite like William Freehling's two-volume book 'The Road to Disunion.' Freehling focuses on the development of secessionist politics in the South, with enough background info on the North to know what was going on there. He goes into extensive detail and depth on social aspects. You will learn about the many differences between the respective Southern states. Freehling is also rather a fun writer; Potter has lots of good anecdotes, and knows how to write a narrative with pace.
IIRC, Freehling's main argument, with which I mostly agreed, is that as white men began to become more egalitarian (towards themselves, that is, not towards other races/cultures - Jackson is a good example), the domestic elitism, so to speak, of slavery inevitably clashed with the larger political culture, including, to a surprisingly large degree, within the South itself.
David Detzer wrote a fine summary of the actual outbreak of the war - the Sumter crisis. It is called 'Allegiance.'
For a summary of the war itself, 'Battle Cry of Freedom' is, again, pretty good. I have to admit, though, I've mostly read specific topics from the war, and very few summary-type books.
Shelby Foote and Bruce Catton, again, were the classic popular Civil War writers of the mid 20th century. Being a Northerner (though I have rebels in the family tree), Catton's Michigan style is appealing to me more so than Foote. Foote was arguably a better writer, though.
There are copious memoirs from the war. Both armies were, in fact, highly literate. And the guys who could write were much better writers than today's average people.
Whatever you do, don't read Thomas DiLorenzo or Garry Wills. DiLorenzo is a pro-Confederate partisan, while Wills is the kind of guy who tries to interpret Lincoln as belonging to a kind of multicultural liberal tradition. They're both hacks, though DiLorenzo probably commits more sins offensive to the discipline of history.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Beckow
Thanks. I usually pick authors who try to argue against the established view of history – one learns more that way. What is often missing in mainstream is understanding of the others’ point of view. We can read them and disagree, but at least we disagree based on what they say, not on what others say they should say, or – most often – based on nothing. A one-sided argument is an oxymoron, but the intellectual elites seem to like it that way.
My view is that bringing millions of slaves into America was a fatal error. The consequences have not fully played out yet – it might eventually destroy US from within. The never-ending attempts to correct this original error usually make it worse. Opening US to mass migration from the Third World can be traced to guilty feelings among some in the elite, but more directly also to an explicit attempt to dilute the legacy of slavery. It has made it worse, but they will keep on trying.
When in a hole, what is there to do but to dig some more…
Of course, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to the idea of accepting non-Jewish immigrants. After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.Replies: @reiner Tor, @German_reader
Is that a joke?
Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.
I think it is a good idea actually (beyond the questionable idea of the state somehow getting your DNA). I'd like to see it adopted more widely. DNA is an obvious, effective and relatively cheap tool to tamp down on this false universality. Since people are highly irrational and don't like using skin color, I'd like to see it adopted as a means around that. Genetic distance would be a good replacement, IMO.Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry
Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.Replies: @songbird, @Mr. XYZ, @Dmitry
The Israeli Rabbinate is supposedly using DNA tests now to determine who is a Jew. I disclaim any understanding of Israeli law, but I believe the Right of Return means that interfaces with immigration.
I think it is a good idea actually (beyond the questionable idea of the state somehow getting your DNA). I’d like to see it adopted more widely. DNA is an obvious, effective and relatively cheap tool to tamp down on this false universality. Since people are highly irrational and don’t like using skin color, I’d like to see it adopted as a means around that. Genetic distance would be a good replacement, IMO.
But right now that's fantasy anyway, since one can't even achieve consensus about the general undesirability of Muslims and Africans as immigrants, which should be a commonsense position.Replies: @songbird
You can see on the Israeli forums, some people even want to take DNA to prove they have Jewish heritage, and they are told it's not accepted by Israeli immigration authorities.
It's not in English, but if for Russian-speakers, you can scroll through Russian language forums for Israeli immigration and they talk about it constantly.
https://vk.com/topic-12938769_26623607?offset=15100
What they can allow is paternity tests to prove to Israel's government that your parents are who you claim, if you repatriate based on their documents, but they don't believe you.
I think it is a good idea actually (beyond the questionable idea of the state somehow getting your DNA). I'd like to see it adopted more widely. DNA is an obvious, effective and relatively cheap tool to tamp down on this false universality. Since people are highly irrational and don't like using skin color, I'd like to see it adopted as a means around that. Genetic distance would be a good replacement, IMO.Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry
I don’t know, I might be in favour of European countries adopting a “right of return” for European-Americans and other European-descended peoples, but I don’t really see the utility of DNA tests. Ideological tests would be more important imo (e.g. I would never allow someone like Rod Dreher to settle in Europe, because he’s just an Americanist über-cuck behind the veneer of his pretend Europhilia).
But right now that’s fantasy anyway, since one can’t even achieve consensus about the general undesirability of Muslims and Africans as immigrants, which should be a commonsense position.
Tests of ideology might be difficult to administer - I expect that there would be no compunction about lying, and it would be easy to figure out the right answers, as "refugees" do. Maybe, you could use an fMRI, or measure the relative sizes of brain tissues such as the amygdala. Of course, I think politics comes from competing evolutionary strategies, so it would be in the DNA. (At least to a reasonable, if imperfect extent.)
But on Earth, you have the problem of all land being already claimed, so that makes it more difficult to use tests of ideology. I don't really entertain the idea, as I think it would be too difficult politically - I suppose that could change, if there was a break-up. A real, if seemingly fanciful possibility would be using them for space colonization. But, of course, there are serious technical hurdles, and you basically need state-backing to devote the resources to get into space.Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Austrian government is considering banning the Identitarians, because Brenton Tarrant seems to have donated money to them in 2018 (probably with the intention of causing such a reaction):
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-newzealand-shootout-austria/man-charged-with-nz-mosque-attacks-gave-cash-to-austrian-far-right-chancellor-kurz-idUSKCN1R80MX
Sebastian Kurz is a total scumbag, one should never trust Christian Democrats.
https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdfReplies: @for-the-record
In English, I found this one which looks good :
https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdf
I read that decades before you were born, so once you have read it you can refresh my memory if it says anything memorable.
Because I believe in a more multicultural society as long as everyone else assimilates. After all, I would have loathed to be told that I can’t come to the US because I am Slavic and Jewish as opposed to Anglo-Saxon.
2. Now everything makes senseReplies: @Mr. XYZ
You’ve got your inherent contradiction right there.
Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.Replies: @songbird, @Mr. XYZ, @Dmitry
Mass intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews combined with a more flexible and inclusive definition of “Who is a Jew?” would solve that problem. I mean, I’m only a quarter Jewish to my knowledge in terms of ancestry and yet I still identify as Jewish.
Not necessarily. I don’t care if different peoples keep their own ethnic foods and languages just as long as they will learn English and don’t spread radical ideas into the US (such as advocating in favor of the death penalty for apostasy or advocating in favor of female genital mutilation).
There's no enforcement mechanism for meaningful assimilation, once you've given immigrants citizenship, they can be as tribal as they want. And many obviously are (one merely needs to look at the bizarre spectacle in US politics of Zionist Jews vs. Somali and Palestinian Muslims...probably not what the founders of the US had in mind when they claimed the "rights of freeborn Englishmen" for themselves).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Ethnic foods results in having to deal with other people's food taboos (hindoos and beef, mohammedans and pork, etc.). Annoying for the same reason vegetarians and vegans are annoying.
Foreign languages means having to hear incomprehensible foreign babbling in public spaces.
FGM means their daughters get their clits lopped off. Who cares?Replies: @Mr. Hack
1. Pick one
2. Now everything makes sense
That’s about as superficial as it gets, the sort of assumption that has led Western societies into their current predicament.
There’s no enforcement mechanism for meaningful assimilation, once you’ve given immigrants citizenship, they can be as tribal as they want. And many obviously are (one merely needs to look at the bizarre spectacle in US politics of Zionist Jews vs. Somali and Palestinian Muslims…probably not what the founders of the US had in mind when they claimed the “rights of freeborn Englishmen” for themselves).
Is there a lot of media noise regarding the arrival of International Investment Bank to Budapest?
2. Now everything makes senseReplies: @Mr. XYZ
Genetically, I would say Slavic. In terms of cultural identification, I would say Jewish.
There's no enforcement mechanism for meaningful assimilation, once you've given immigrants citizenship, they can be as tribal as they want. And many obviously are (one merely needs to look at the bizarre spectacle in US politics of Zionist Jews vs. Somali and Palestinian Muslims...probably not what the founders of the US had in mind when they claimed the "rights of freeborn Englishmen" for themselves).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Maybe if there was less of an emphasis in the US (and perhaps Western Europe as well) on identity politics, then maybe we would see less tribalism.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Identity politics is a natural consequence of mass immigration. Many immigrants have extremely strong identities anyway (lots of Muslims certainly do), they don’t need any encouragement from leftist radicals for that.
Which ethnic groups in the US are the least ethno-nationalistic?
It’s often asserted that Jewish communists never had a Jewish identity, but it’s often difficult to tell, because Jews don’t tell others about their identity. (Nor do they necessarily have the self-awareness to know it themselves if they are motivated by their ethnic identity.) For example Molotov’s wife showed zero signs of a Jewish identity, until she met Golda Meyersson (later Meir) in 1948 and immediately broke in tears. The Moscow synagogue was swarmed by a crowd of Jews several times its capacity when she arrived there - presumably this included any number of Jews who had previously never shown a sign of Jewish ethnic identity. Voroshilov’s wife similarly astonished her family members in 1948 when she announced that “finally we have a country.” At first they didn’t understand who the “we” referred to - she hadn’t shown any signs of a Jewish ethnic identity before. The Hungarian minister of culture (and secretary responsible for culture in the Political Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers’ Party) started out as a Zionist, while the communist vice chairman of the Hungarian National Bank (largely responsible for the indebtedness of the country by 1990) quickly discovered his Jewish roots in 1990 and left for Israel.
Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education - they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
In regards to Jewish quotas, as much as the Left might not want to hear this, they actually make sense from a blank slatist perspective. After all, if there are genuinely no genetic IQ differences between different groups of people, then it makes sense to give groups with a lower average IQ preferential treatment when it comes to things such as university admissions, employment, et cetera.
For what it’s worth, I do think that Europe is doing multiculturalism wrong. I’d have only imported the higher-IQ Muslims and let lower-IQ Muslims remain in their home countries. That way, maybe there would be less violence whenever someone draws a cartoon of Muhammad.
"Doing multiculturalism wrong"...multiculturalism is wrong per se, there isn't any right version of it. All that "the US is so much better at integrating Muslims" stuff is garbage as well, there have been plenty of Islamic terror attacks in the US, and people like Ilhan Omar obviously aren't integrated into any meaningful American identity at all (even though they use SJW language for promoting their Islamic agenda).Replies: @DFH, @Mr. XYZ
This seems like a good argument for large-scale intermarriage, no? Of course, the problem with that is that different ethnic groups are going to lose their uniqueness and that the amount of smart fractions in one’s country might very well significantly decrease.
Which ethnic groups in the US are the least ethno-nationalistic?
But right now that's fantasy anyway, since one can't even achieve consensus about the general undesirability of Muslims and Africans as immigrants, which should be a commonsense position.Replies: @songbird
I agree. Skin color (and by extension ancestry) are poor proxies for politics, although much superior to the fiction that exists now that it is about the arguments and all you need is to convince the blacks and Arabs to join the anti-globalists, as Utu seems to believe. But that may be of diminishing importance, if TFR is lower among the far left.
Tests of ideology might be difficult to administer – I expect that there would be no compunction about lying, and it would be easy to figure out the right answers, as “refugees” do. Maybe, you could use an fMRI, or measure the relative sizes of brain tissues such as the amygdala. Of course, I think politics comes from competing evolutionary strategies, so it would be in the DNA. (At least to a reasonable, if imperfect extent.)
But on Earth, you have the problem of all land being already claimed, so that makes it more difficult to use tests of ideology. I don’t really entertain the idea, as I think it would be too difficult politically – I suppose that could change, if there was a break-up. A real, if seemingly fanciful possibility would be using them for space colonization. But, of course, there are serious technical hurdles, and you basically need state-backing to devote the resources to get into space.
For what it’s worth, I am well-aware that some Jews’ support for multiculturalism in the West while opposing non-Jewish immigration to Israel contributes to anti-Semitism among Gentiles. In this regard, I think that much more Jews should follow my lead and embrace multiculturalism for Israel. I don’t mean importing massive numbers of low-IQ Muslims and Africans. Rather, what I mean is allowing high-IQ non-Jewish immigrants from anywhere except perhaps the Muslim world (due to their extremely long period of hostility with Israel) immigrate to Israel and acquire Israeli citizenship.
I also think that civil marriage needs to be legalized in Israel and that Israel needs to adopt a more inclusive and tolerant definition of “Who is a Jew?”
Mohammed Atta probably had a fairly high IQ by Egyptian standards.
“Doing multiculturalism wrong”…multiculturalism is wrong per se, there isn’t any right version of it. All that “the US is so much better at integrating Muslims” stuff is garbage as well, there have been plenty of Islamic terror attacks in the US, and people like Ilhan Omar obviously aren’t integrated into any meaningful American identity at all (even though they use SJW language for promoting their Islamic agenda).
Tests of ideology might be difficult to administer - I expect that there would be no compunction about lying, and it would be easy to figure out the right answers, as "refugees" do. Maybe, you could use an fMRI, or measure the relative sizes of brain tissues such as the amygdala. Of course, I think politics comes from competing evolutionary strategies, so it would be in the DNA. (At least to a reasonable, if imperfect extent.)
But on Earth, you have the problem of all land being already claimed, so that makes it more difficult to use tests of ideology. I don't really entertain the idea, as I think it would be too difficult politically - I suppose that could change, if there was a break-up. A real, if seemingly fanciful possibility would be using them for space colonization. But, of course, there are serious technical hurdles, and you basically need state-backing to devote the resources to get into space.Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Yeah, if you’re going to try figuring out potential immigrants’ political ideologies, the best move might be to look at their DNA.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-newzealand-shootout-austria/man-charged-with-nz-mosque-attacks-gave-cash-to-austrian-far-right-chancellor-kurz-idUSKCN1R80MX
Sebastian Kurz is a total scumbag, one should never trust Christian Democrats.Replies: @songbird
That’s interesting that you give the possibility of a long-term time horizon. I wonder if he had that purpose in going to Israel – that he knew he would be accused of being Mossad. But that was supposedly in 2016, so perhaps too long ago.
But getting the identitarians (an explicitly non-violent nationalist movement) banned would certainly fit his accelerationist programme of destroying chances for peaceful activism (though he's probably wrong that masses of people will turn to violence as a consequence, only a few will do that, resignation and apathy is more likely among the majority).
Tarrant seems to be a pretty warped personality, his nihilism is unappealing, but his political calculations aren't completely wrong. The reactions to his attack are probably just what he expected.
https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/03/breaking-ukrainian-security-boss-admits-ukraine-shot-down-mh-17-planned-ethnic-genocide-in-donbass/
I think he said he had planned the attack for at least two years, so who knows?
But getting the identitarians (an explicitly non-violent nationalist movement) banned would certainly fit his accelerationist programme of destroying chances for peaceful activism (though he’s probably wrong that masses of people will turn to violence as a consequence, only a few will do that, resignation and apathy is more likely among the majority).
Tarrant seems to be a pretty warped personality, his nihilism is unappealing, but his political calculations aren’t completely wrong. The reactions to his attack are probably just what he expected.
I would rather that people practice female genital mutilation than keep their ethnic foods and languages.
Ethnic foods results in having to deal with other people’s food taboos (hindoos and beef, mohammedans and pork, etc.). Annoying for the same reason vegetarians and vegans are annoying.
Foreign languages means having to hear incomprehensible foreign babbling in public spaces.
FGM means their daughters get their clits lopped off. Who cares?
As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct - they're definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! :-)
(Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)...Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DFH, @Hyperborean
Dangers of Multiculturalism!
Schräge Musik at the end!
Watching NBA and other sports events, when cameras switch to spectators, you can see exactly what Jung was writing about – even White Americans are very un-European in their behaviour and demeanour, on average.
This is true even for high class Americans.
"Doing multiculturalism wrong"...multiculturalism is wrong per se, there isn't any right version of it. All that "the US is so much better at integrating Muslims" stuff is garbage as well, there have been plenty of Islamic terror attacks in the US, and people like Ilhan Omar obviously aren't integrated into any meaningful American identity at all (even though they use SJW language for promoting their Islamic agenda).Replies: @DFH, @Mr. XYZ
I think most ‘fundamentalist’ Muslims (or whatever you want to call them) have a higher than average IQ for their groups; for instance, students and in particular engineering or medical students are/were very over-represented among them in Arab countries
Ethnic foods results in having to deal with other people's food taboos (hindoos and beef, mohammedans and pork, etc.). Annoying for the same reason vegetarians and vegans are annoying.
Foreign languages means having to hear incomprehensible foreign babbling in public spaces.
FGM means their daughters get their clits lopped off. Who cares?Replies: @Mr. Hack
For a guy who seems to be imbued with a free market, laissez faire sort of spirit, you sure sound like somebody more prone to an insufferable case of cultural constipation. Could be the result of a diet too high in meats? More vegetables, especially leafy green ones like spinach might help you out?
As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct – they’re definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! 🙂
(Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)…
As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct - they're definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! :-)
(Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)...Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DFH, @Hyperborean
Speaking as someone who speaks a foreign tongue fluently, I can confirm that it is a great secret code for disparaging others in public spaces.
One of the best things about living in a rural area is precisely the lack of diversity.
I do like big cities, but unfortunately thanks to the never ending hell of immigration one is never at home in these cities.
And even here in a rural area one suffers from this on the telephone. It’s particularly bad in Canada, no doubt due to their high rate of immigration. Half the time when talking to Canadian businesses one ends up dealing with someone who has some gibberish non-European name and speaks broken, accented English.
As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct - they're definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! :-)
(Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)...Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DFH, @Hyperborean
90% of non-European languages sound horrible and even otherwise pleasant European languages sound obnoxious when foreigners use them in your spaces.
As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct - they're definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! :-)
(Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)...Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @DFH, @Hyperborean
Two of my Elder Brothers during the year they were in the USA as young children, they would often make inappropriate remarks about people in public precisely because no one understood them.
On average as total population, secularized Ashkenazi Jews probably had a higher capacity for studying, compared to other nationalities. In addition with internal cultural norms, it resulted in higher educational level and higher proportion of the population working as educated specialists (aside from overrepresentation in blackmarket economy).
This is not saying anything about their social position as Jews. To be Jew, was not cool to be, socially in the USSR. It was surely among the more loser nationalities, socially.
But today the phenonemon reversed, at least outside of people with political careers.
Millenials, and even more generation Z are the opposite and boast about their minority roots..
And this despite the fact nationalities like Jews are still unpopular politically. (And on websites like this one, the most unpopular nationality of all).
So you can see how uncool it was to be Jewish USSR, by comparing to the reverse behaviour today.
But in the 1920s and 1930s...is it a sign of a "loser nationality" to be grotesquely overrepresented in the secret police? There are tens of millions of gentiles who love Jews and strongly support Jewish nationalism (especially in the US, but the type also exists in Europe). A fringe website with zero influence on wider debates.
Why are you trying to spin the well known facts on the percentage of Jewish students in 1920s Moscow and Leningrad Universities?
Do you need a reminder on the rerun of that same tribalism and nepotism in the United States today, where they are vastly overrepresented at Ivy League, but not so much at CalTech and MIT?
That's one way of looking at it I guess. Here is another (referring to the situation in the mid-1920s): Replies: @Dmitry
People who point out the Jewish role in the Soviet Union usually do so with reference to the 1920s and 1930s, and often acknowledge that things changed somewhat later, especially after the creation of Israel and the support for anti-Israel Arab regimes by the Soviet Union.
But in the 1920s and 1930s…is it a sign of a “loser nationality” to be grotesquely overrepresented in the secret police?
There are tens of millions of gentiles who love Jews and strongly support Jewish nationalism (especially in the US, but the type also exists in Europe).
A fringe website with zero influence on wider debates.
I think it is a good idea actually (beyond the questionable idea of the state somehow getting your DNA). I'd like to see it adopted more widely. DNA is an obvious, effective and relatively cheap tool to tamp down on this false universality. Since people are highly irrational and don't like using skin color, I'd like to see it adopted as a means around that. Genetic distance would be a good replacement, IMO.Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry
It’s some fake news though (it was discussed on this forum already), in relation to immigration law for Israel.
You can see on the Israeli forums, some people even want to take DNA to prove they have Jewish heritage, and they are told it’s not accepted by Israeli immigration authorities.
It’s not in English, but if for Russian-speakers, you can scroll through Russian language forums for Israeli immigration and they talk about it constantly.
https://vk.com/topic-12938769_26623607?offset=15100
What they can allow is paternity tests to prove to Israel’s government that your parents are who you claim, if you repatriate based on their documents, but they don’t believe you.
Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.Replies: @songbird, @Mr. XYZ, @Dmitry
Not in every scenario though.
Israel is multiracial and multireligious. At the same time, it is in internal demographic war between Jews and Muslims.
Increasing immigration of non-Jewish nationalities which would be loyal to Israel, and at the same of not too low human capital, could improve the demographic balance to become more patriotic and less Muslim in some cases.
There’s already small examples of loyal non-Jewish immigrants, like the Vietnamese Boat People which were given Israeli citizenship and are reportedly very patriotic, Circassians (who are actually Muslim and arrived in Palestine in the late 19th century), or Christian illegal and legal immigrants from countries like Colombia and Philippines, whose children are conscripted to the Israeli army and then receive Israeli citizenship.
Obviously, I don’t think giving citizenship to Sudanese and Eritrean illegal immigrants would help Israel’s demographics, because they already just boosted the crime and rape rate there.
–
But remember Jewish immigration can also be difficult for Israel. Haredi Jews are often burning Israel flags and could undermine the state, and are generally superstitious clowns. And I’ve read about Ethiopian Jews, that they cost Israel $100,000 of government spending to absorb each immigrant (they establish special schools in their language, free housing and have to teach them basic skills).
They didn’t have “a greater capacity for studying”, they literally exterminated and expelled the previous professors and students during and after the Revolution.
Why are you trying to spin the well known facts on the percentage of Jewish students in 1920s Moscow and Leningrad Universities?
Do you need a reminder on the rerun of that same tribalism and nepotism in the United States today, where they are vastly overrepresented at Ivy League, but not so much at CalTech and MIT?
Calling Israel multiracial, multicultural and/or multiconfessional – really? Are you for real, this oblivious? This isn’t autism, as others might have concluded.
Israel not being 100% Jewish doesn’t make it a multiracial and multiconfessional country. Having ethnic specific laws and rights, state religion immediately disproves your claim.
In terms of religion, all kinds of church , mosque and synagogue. Multiconfessional means, even secular hipsters in Tel Aviv cafes,can have (misfortune in my view) to sit under the noise of the Mosque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceaS5hcHZak
Jewish techno party.
Israel probably needs a more targeted and filtered immigration system.
They have so many demographic nightmares, they don’t need to increase them.
You can read how Israel’s “Law of Return” is accepting now Ukrainian – presumably because they have Jewish descent – nationalist trash.
E,g,
Reader comments below article:
In other cases, at least it seems like illegal immigrants:
—
But then there the way dresses one of Israel’s (former) main news presenters (Bandera t-shirt is cool):
For that matter, might as well throw some Chinese, Vietnamese, and Hindus in there.Replies: @Dmitry
That’s certainly very possible. That said, though, why is Muslim fundamentalism largely absent from the US?
"Doing multiculturalism wrong"...multiculturalism is wrong per se, there isn't any right version of it. All that "the US is so much better at integrating Muslims" stuff is garbage as well, there have been plenty of Islamic terror attacks in the US, and people like Ilhan Omar obviously aren't integrated into any meaningful American identity at all (even though they use SJW language for promoting their Islamic agenda).Replies: @DFH, @Mr. XYZ
I did previously see a chart that showed that US Muslims were, on average, much more educated than European Muslims were. Would you like to see this chart?
As for Ilhan Omar, Yes, she does appear to be a relatively high-IQ Muslim (AFAIK, her family were from Somalia’s elite) and Yes, she does appear to have a lot of ethnic flair left in her. However, what exactly do you find objectionable about her besides her lack of assimilation? I mean, her comments about Jewish money might very well be true–and she does appear to be a typical progressive on social issues (which is good in some cases and bad in other cases, but that’s true for a lot of White American progressives as well–not just non-White immigrant progressives).
iirc there are polls though which supposedly show Muslims in the US are comparatively liberal on stuff like homos and trannies...hard to evaluate though how genuine that is.
I doubt though it's true that there's no "Islamic fundamentalism" in the US, arguments along those lines always seemed made up to me, just a way for US "conservatives" to bash Europeans for their alleged "racism" and to brag about American superiority. Her people cause nothing but problems in all the Western countries which have been foolish enough to take in Somalis, it's the height of insolence that such people attain political office (which they of course will use for advancing their Islamic agenda).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Accepting Russians, Belarusians, and eastern/southern Ukrainians would be better than accepting western Ukrainians, no?
For that matter, might as well throw some Chinese, Vietnamese, and Hindus in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4MLRofKJg
Israel does not have bureaucracy to manage their level of illegal immigrantshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5pzfYArZoIllegal immigrants from countries like Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea, are allowed to live in Israel without restrictions. It's from countries Israel has good diplomatic relations, that they deport the illegal immigrants. So Ukrainians, are all deported, and apply for refugee status. And Indians, probably the same.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
Education by itself is a pretty meaningless metric. Lots of leading SS men had Phd degrees…would you have liked them as immigrants, in your neighbourhood maybe?
iirc there are polls though which supposedly show Muslims in the US are comparatively liberal on stuff like homos and trannies…hard to evaluate though how genuine that is.
I doubt though it’s true that there’s no “Islamic fundamentalism” in the US, arguments along those lines always seemed made up to me, just a way for US “conservatives” to bash Europeans for their alleged “racism” and to brag about American superiority.
Her people cause nothing but problems in all the Western countries which have been foolish enough to take in Somalis, it’s the height of insolence that such people attain political office (which they of course will use for advancing their Islamic agenda).
Also, it's not that there's no Islamic fundamentalism in the US, but that it appears to be rarer in the US than in Western Europe. Of course, that might simply be anecdotal evidence--so let's see if someone can find more concrete data on this.
As for education, you're correct that one can be well-educated and still hold backwards views. For instance, a working-class American might be more tolerant of LGBT people than an educated Russian would be. Still, my hunch would be that, on average, higher IQ people are more progressive than lower IQ people are. Of course, this could sometimes result in negative consequences--such as the denial of the possibility of genetic group differences in regards to various human traits--such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.
As for Somalis, the trick is the only import the smartest members of their community. Then we'd probably have a lot of Ilhan Omars but not so much crime and terrorism.Replies: @German_reader
iirc there are polls though which supposedly show Muslims in the US are comparatively liberal on stuff like homos and trannies...hard to evaluate though how genuine that is.
I doubt though it's true that there's no "Islamic fundamentalism" in the US, arguments along those lines always seemed made up to me, just a way for US "conservatives" to bash Europeans for their alleged "racism" and to brag about American superiority. Her people cause nothing but problems in all the Western countries which have been foolish enough to take in Somalis, it's the height of insolence that such people attain political office (which they of course will use for advancing their Islamic agenda).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Yeah, I’ve seen a poll that a majority of US Muslims nowadays support same-sex marriage. I suspect that it’s probably accurate since even a bare majority of US Blacks support same-sex marriage nowadays. I don’t think that large numbers of US Muslims and US Blacks are lying about this.
Also, it’s not that there’s no Islamic fundamentalism in the US, but that it appears to be rarer in the US than in Western Europe. Of course, that might simply be anecdotal evidence–so let’s see if someone can find more concrete data on this.
As for education, you’re correct that one can be well-educated and still hold backwards views. For instance, a working-class American might be more tolerant of LGBT people than an educated Russian would be. Still, my hunch would be that, on average, higher IQ people are more progressive than lower IQ people are. Of course, this could sometimes result in negative consequences–such as the denial of the possibility of genetic group differences in regards to various human traits–such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.
As for Somalis, the trick is the only import the smartest members of their community. Then we’d probably have a lot of Ilhan Omars but not so much crime and terrorism.
I’ve read that Minnesota has a problem with Somali gangs. Thus, it really does look like the US was a bit too welcoming to Somalis and that it should have been more selective in regards to which Somalis it accepted.
For that matter, might as well throw some Chinese, Vietnamese, and Hindus in there.Replies: @Dmitry
You mean as legal immigrants?
There’s a lot of Indians in Israel. I’m not sure which are Hindu and which are Jewish.
Some of them are probably illegal immigrants. There are videos people post of Indians crushing the Ukrainians and Russian illegal immigrants for refugee status (those are obviously Hindus/Muslims).
But I saw some large Indian families, wearing Indian costumes, in the supermarket in Bat Yam (they might be Indian Jews, who appear the same race as Indian Hindus).
Also I noticed how Tel Aviv is flooded with Chinese people, but they are guest workers there and investors.
Vietnamese in Israel, are just from the Boat People. A boat of them was captured by an Israeli ship and given citizenship in 1979. So they are Israeli citizens.
Israel does not have bureaucracy to manage their level of illegal immigrants
Illegal immigrants from countries like Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea, are allowed to live in Israel without restrictions.
It’s from countries Israel has good diplomatic relations, that they deport the illegal immigrants.
So Ukrainians, are all deported, and apply for refugee status. And Indians, probably the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4MLRofKJg
Israel does not have bureaucracy to manage their level of illegal immigrantshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5pzfYArZoIllegal immigrants from countries like Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea, are allowed to live in Israel without restrictions. It's from countries Israel has good diplomatic relations, that they deport the illegal immigrants. So Ukrainians, are all deported, and apply for refugee status. And Indians, probably the same.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
The refugee status queue in Israel, also has some Central Asians. I also saw those last year. (Israel has good relations with Central Asia, so the illegal immigrants from there are probably deported).
Nobody can queue
Also, it's not that there's no Islamic fundamentalism in the US, but that it appears to be rarer in the US than in Western Europe. Of course, that might simply be anecdotal evidence--so let's see if someone can find more concrete data on this.
As for education, you're correct that one can be well-educated and still hold backwards views. For instance, a working-class American might be more tolerant of LGBT people than an educated Russian would be. Still, my hunch would be that, on average, higher IQ people are more progressive than lower IQ people are. Of course, this could sometimes result in negative consequences--such as the denial of the possibility of genetic group differences in regards to various human traits--such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.
As for Somalis, the trick is the only import the smartest members of their community. Then we'd probably have a lot of Ilhan Omars but not so much crime and terrorism.Replies: @German_reader
There’s an even better trick…don’t let any of them immigrate at all.
What’s the purpose of your stupid reply.
Israel is pretty multiracial, multicultural and multiconfessional. I enjoy it in small quantities, but the overall effect on me of that level of multiculturalism in a small area, is stress as well.
That’s my main problem with Israel. (I would prefer it if was more homogenous).
Different villages, have different races and religions. You can drive from the Druze village, to the Circassian village, to the Maronite village, to Arab village, to the mainly Russian-speaking town, to French-speaking Moroccan area, to the Haredi town, to Ethiopian immigrant area, to even areas which are conquered by Sudanese women in Hijabs.
Jews themselves have a hundred different races there, although primarily quite brown.
Whole place is full of different kinds of immigrants, and even Christian Latinos, Indians, Filipinos and Chinese gastarbeiters.
In terms of religion, all kinds of church , mosque and synagogue.
Multiconfessional means, even secular hipsters in Tel Aviv cafes,can have (misfortune in my view) to sit under the noise of the Mosque.
“My people”…a false and insincere moron phrase in this context…not least with a fantasist fucktard as yourself, who for purposes of attention-whoring on the internet….metamorphasises as a Polish,Austrian anti-Banderite, Banderite, Dagestani-Canadia freakshow. Anyway the Banderite scumbags, probably the poorest non-African ethnic group in America , settled in quite, obscure places not employing many people after being smuggled out of execution , by the CIA..a bit like British paedophiles settled in Australia
…I think we all know there isn;t a chance in hell of that occuring ( you freaks going to Ukraine)..or donating a cent to it.
So, you wouldn’t even want Somalis like Ayaan Hirsi Ali?
The only other "good" Somali I can think of is Mo Farrah, but he's merely getting a lot of money for being able to run fast, which is also isn't anything that is really worthy of respect imo.
Somalis just come across as one of the most horrible and useless peoples on earth, I can't think of a single good reason why one would want them as immigrants.
You seem to be in thrall to some strange immigrationist ideology...which seems to be mainly motivated by the fact that you're an immigrant yourself. Which isn't a very convincing reason to the nationalist commenters here like me.Replies: @Mr. XYZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4MLRofKJg
Israel does not have bureaucracy to manage their level of illegal immigrantshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5pzfYArZoIllegal immigrants from countries like Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea, are allowed to live in Israel without restrictions. It's from countries Israel has good diplomatic relations, that they deport the illegal immigrants. So Ukrainians, are all deported, and apply for refugee status. And Indians, probably the same.Replies: @Dmitry, @Mr. XYZ
Yes, of course. Smart Hindus immigrating to Israel en masse could help strengthen it.
No, why would I want to? She’s merely talking about problems that wouldn’t exist if people of her background weren’t in Western countries. It’s not like she’s made any genuinely useful contribution like finding new antibiotics, bringing us closer to cold fusion or whatever.
The only other “good” Somali I can think of is Mo Farrah, but he’s merely getting a lot of money for being able to run fast, which is also isn’t anything that is really worthy of respect imo.
Somalis just come across as one of the most horrible and useless peoples on earth, I can’t think of a single good reason why one would want them as immigrants.
You seem to be in thrall to some strange immigrationist ideology…which seems to be mainly motivated by the fact that you’re an immigrant yourself. Which isn’t a very convincing reason to the nationalist commenters here like me.
Also, No, my own position in regards to immigration isn't as liberal as you think it is. I don't think that the fact that I am an immigrant myself is a sufficient reason to bring additional immigrants to this country. I do think that immigrants and their descendants shouldn't drag down a country's average IQ or to bring radical ideas into their host countries. I do want immigrants who are not going to harm this country to have the chance to come to this country for a good life, though. Of course, California is already probably overcrowded enough as it is--but US states such as Texas still have a lot of available space.Replies: @German_reader
Not hot
The only other "good" Somali I can think of is Mo Farrah, but he's merely getting a lot of money for being able to run fast, which is also isn't anything that is really worthy of respect imo.
Somalis just come across as one of the most horrible and useless peoples on earth, I can't think of a single good reason why one would want them as immigrants.
You seem to be in thrall to some strange immigrationist ideology...which seems to be mainly motivated by the fact that you're an immigrant yourself. Which isn't a very convincing reason to the nationalist commenters here like me.Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Technically speaking, by your criteria, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are going to be useless. 99% of immigrants probably aren’t going to be able to do the things that you want.
Also, No, my own position in regards to immigration isn’t as liberal as you think it is. I don’t think that the fact that I am an immigrant myself is a sufficient reason to bring additional immigrants to this country. I do think that immigrants and their descendants shouldn’t drag down a country’s average IQ or to bring radical ideas into their host countries. I do want immigrants who are not going to harm this country to have the chance to come to this country for a good life, though. Of course, California is already probably overcrowded enough as it is–but US states such as Texas still have a lot of available space.
If immigration is allowed at all, it should be solely for reasons of increasing national power, e.g. for attracting useful specialists like Wernher von Braun and other German rocket scientists (odd how that immigration isn't celebrated anymore as a success story in the US, offends me somewhat).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Eh … she’s relatively attractive for a Semitic Black woman.
What exactly made the Republicans so attractive to your people? Before Trump, they appear to have in large part been pro-immigration just like the Democrats are.
Also, No, my own position in regards to immigration isn't as liberal as you think it is. I don't think that the fact that I am an immigrant myself is a sufficient reason to bring additional immigrants to this country. I do think that immigrants and their descendants shouldn't drag down a country's average IQ or to bring radical ideas into their host countries. I do want immigrants who are not going to harm this country to have the chance to come to this country for a good life, though. Of course, California is already probably overcrowded enough as it is--but US states such as Texas still have a lot of available space.Replies: @German_reader
What makes you think they deserve a good life and why should that be of any relevance for their immigration to the US?
If immigration is allowed at all, it should be solely for reasons of increasing national power, e.g. for attracting useful specialists like Wernher von Braun and other German rocket scientists (odd how that immigration isn’t celebrated anymore as a success story in the US, offends me somewhat).
If immigration is allowed at all, it should be solely for reasons of increasing national power, e.g. for attracting useful specialists like Wernher von Braun and other German rocket scientists (odd how that immigration isn't celebrated anymore as a success story in the US, offends me somewhat).Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Well, why don’t you think people deserve a good life? I mean, even if people are going to be stuck in the Third World, one can argue that better-off countries have a duty to help out these unfortunates. It’s similar to how some well-off Americans and Europeans believe in helping out those countrymen of theirs who are less fortunate–except on a global scale.
Also, if immigration isn’t going to reduce a country’s average IQ or bring undesirable ideologies into a country, then a country’s national power is going to be increased by immigration due to the fact that it is going to have more people–and of a comparable quality–than it would have had without immigration. This is why the US appears to have strongly benefited from immigration–at least until 1880 or so. I’m not sure if large-scale Italian immigration was good for the US, but large-scale Anglo-Saxon immigration was definitely good for the US. Large-scale Jewish immigration was also good for the US in the sense that it resulted in more technological progress in the US as well as in more social liberalism–which is a good thing in the sense that it advocates helping the common man–albeit with the undesirable effect of trying to censor all discussions about the genetics of IQ and especially genetic group differences in regards to important traits such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.
People are not interchangeable based on IQ and culture is very important. The movement of a certain race-nationality into or out of a particular geographical area will accordingly alter the characteristics of the area.
To give an example of what is usually seen as a positive case, the German-Scandinavian mass-settlement of Midwestern states led to the creation of social democratic-influenced provinces, which still endure to an extent even a century after German culture in the USA was, for better or worse rapidly and harshly, eradicated.
Karlin posted a while ago about the higher GDP per capita of Scandinavians in America compared to Scandinavian countries from some American libertarian think tank to extoll the perceived superiority of American economic liberalism.
Accepting for the sake of the argument the premise that Americans who used to be Scandinavian live better due to the American economic regime and that material wealth should be prioritsed (I would object that, among other factors, increased geographic mobility and short employment terms contribute to American deracination), if Scandinavians comprised a larger part of the American population then the USA would look more like Scandinavia from an institutional perspective.
But if that were the case then America would be a different country (and Scandinavians wouldn't be richer, implicitly defeating Karlin’s point).
I, personally, would see this as a positive but given that libertarianism in all parts of life, and Manchester Liberalism in general, seem like a very important ethno-ideological component of American identity it would be quite fair for Americans to object to such an meta-ethnic alteration of their culture.
My argument is a bit specific here but in reality this would apply to all facets of general daily life as well as culture, politics, national self-conception, foreign policy, etc. Really, almost everything is affected.
Now, you might retort that this would be solved with interethnic breeding and indoctrination through mass culture and education, however I see this as an unlikely prospect.
In the past, the USA was far more self-confident, had a functional core around which to assimilate and was willing to engage in harsher measures. And even with that, despite attempting to absorb nationalities who were far closer from a cultural perspective, amalgamated America still ended up with a Euromutt identity.
The America that exists today is one where ethnic strife is increasingly ingrained into the foundation of life. Intermarriage will mainly lead to the white core growing smaller as their children will assimilate to non-titular nationalities in places where non-whites maintain local and regional numerical and cultural dominance and due to the state and social promotion of non-titular nationalities even in places where the titular nationality has a majority.
Particularly important, I believe, will be the psychological shift that occurs when the titular nationality drops to mid-40s%.
You'd have to be blind not to realize that we're literally dealing with the synagogue of Satan here.
Is there a lot of media noise regarding the arrival of International Investment Bank to Budapest?Replies: @reiner Tor
Yes, a lot of negative publicity by the liberal press. They talk about the privileges given to “Putin’s bank.” I brought it up here, Karlin made a post about it.
Brushing aside issues like increased political corruption (the infamous “Three Is”, Ireland, Italy and Israel which controlled NY City and other Democratic immigrant party machines, etc.) and diaspora hijacking of foreign policy.
People are not interchangeable based on IQ and culture is very important. The movement of a certain race-nationality into or out of a particular geographical area will accordingly alter the characteristics of the area.
To give an example of what is usually seen as a positive case, the German-Scandinavian mass-settlement of Midwestern states led to the creation of social democratic-influenced provinces, which still endure to an extent even a century after German culture in the USA was, for better or worse rapidly and harshly, eradicated.
Karlin posted a while ago about the higher GDP per capita of Scandinavians in America compared to Scandinavian countries from some American libertarian think tank to extoll the perceived superiority of American economic liberalism.
Accepting for the sake of the argument the premise that Americans who used to be Scandinavian live better due to the American economic regime and that material wealth should be prioritsed (I would object that, among other factors, increased geographic mobility and short employment terms contribute to American deracination), if Scandinavians comprised a larger part of the American population then the USA would look more like Scandinavia from an institutional perspective.
But if that were the case then America would be a different country (and Scandinavians wouldn’t be richer, implicitly defeating Karlin’s point).
I, personally, would see this as a positive but given that libertarianism in all parts of life, and Manchester Liberalism in general, seem like a very important ethno-ideological component of American identity it would be quite fair for Americans to object to such an meta-ethnic alteration of their culture.
My argument is a bit specific here but in reality this would apply to all facets of general daily life as well as culture, politics, national self-conception, foreign policy, etc. Really, almost everything is affected.
Now, you might retort that this would be solved with interethnic breeding and indoctrination through mass culture and education, however I see this as an unlikely prospect.
In the past, the USA was far more self-confident, had a functional core around which to assimilate and was willing to engage in harsher measures. And even with that, despite attempting to absorb nationalities who were far closer from a cultural perspective, amalgamated America still ended up with a Euromutt identity.
The America that exists today is one where ethnic strife is increasingly ingrained into the foundation of life. Intermarriage will mainly lead to the white core growing smaller as their children will assimilate to non-titular nationalities in places where non-whites maintain local and regional numerical and cultural dominance and due to the state and social promotion of non-titular nationalities even in places where the titular nationality has a majority.
Particularly important, I believe, will be the psychological shift that occurs when the titular nationality drops to mid-40s%.
Anti-communism abroad and anti-socialism at home.
*Western European countries like France and UK steal much of the money of people after they die. USA has something similar, but it only begins at around $11 million, so at least most ordinary Americans avoid this kind of open property-theft socialism.Replies: @AP
You’re beginning to sound like one of those liberal politically correct cucktards. What’s wrong with speaking critically of others in private or in public, as long as it’s not overly mean spirited (especially in secret)? Remember the young kid who recently ‘smirked’ at the American Indian in public? Folks criticize each other here at this blog 24/7. Is it Swedish that you’re fluent in?
On average as total population, secularized Ashkenazi Jews probably had a higher capacity for studying
That’s one way of looking at it I guess. Here is another (referring to the situation in the mid-1920s):
Yes, I am fluent in Swedish.
So, for the ‘good of mankind’ would you urge your fellow Swedish speakers in Sweden to divest themselves of the Swedish language and adopt German instead, to help form a ‘Greater German World’ within Europe’?
That's one way of looking at it I guess. Here is another (referring to the situation in the mid-1920s): Replies: @Dmitry
In the USSR academic, Ashkenazi Jews seemed more overrepresented in narrow areas like theoretical physics and maths. This led to “antisemitic” scandals, because there too many Jewish mathematicians and physicists entering the top. So they allegedly used some kind of systems and pressure to limit the number of Jewish mathematicians.
I’m not expert in physics. But you can see in USSR physics, for example, the most famous “course on theoretical physics”, has author names like “Landau and Lifshits”.
In the USSR, Ashkenazi Jews were a population who seemed to produce more nerdy teenagers than normal people (who were, according to themselves, often bullied at school).
I was watching a television documentary about Perelman. And apparently in his teenage years, he was angry that some other Jewish nerd was the better school mathematician in his city. So as a result, he studied more and became successful. This is reflection of a more nerdy culture of the era.
Also in the USSR, Jews were overrepresented as classical music professionals, and perhaps to some extent even in unrelated areas like ballet,.
This is not indicative of intelligence ( i.e. classical music performers are not known for their intelligence). It is indicative more of proportionally higher attention span or capacity for studying as teenagers. And outside of the highest achievement, it also resulted in more Jewish engineers, doctors, etc.
But I’m not sure if there was so much Jewish overrepresentation in academic areas like archaeologists, anthropologists etc. Jewish nerdy children were clearly most successful, in more formal disciplines, which rewarded long hours of nerdy study as teenagers.
Today, this is clearly all a receding past. There is no sense universities in Russia are flooded today with too many Jewish nerds.
In Ukraine, there might still exist some traces of the descendants of Jewish nerds in the computer science graduates. I was looking at social media of a friend I know from Odessa last week, and it looked like half of his computer scientist friends in Kiev, had a photo from free Jewish heritage vacations to Israel on their social media. Actually I had some impression that there is a “Jewish mafia” for computer scientists there (but this is just a very superficial impression from time wasting instagram).
Why? Is it a religious duty? Who exactly is it good for? Unless, pretty much all Third Worlders are allowed to ‘better‘ themselves by departing for richer shores – and that’s unlikely – all you are doing is adding a burden for the advanced world, and facilitating money (and some brain) migration away from the poorest parts of the world. If the departing Third Worlders have no stake in their own societies, and all they do is plot how to leave, that makes their Third World even worse.
Because of his strange Jewish neuroses
“Anti-socialism” is very good and admirable. But I can’t see how you would ever emigrate from America to Ukraine, on that basis. It would always be the opposite.
America is still the centre of capitalism and has a lot of legal protections for private property. And for private citizens, USA is even better than Western Europe in areas like inheritance tax law.* (Although, for businesses, the corporation tax in America is still higher than many EU states).
But what can you say about Ukraine?
Even if we judge it by “pro-capitalist” economic reforms and projects, which politicians are promoting to international investors there, like the privatization of Odessa Port Plant.
It was supposed to be the first major privatization in Ukraine since the coup. And yet years later, the result is no international investors wanted to buy it because of lack of accounting transparency and sense there would be enough private property protection.
–
*Western European countries like France and UK steal much of the money of people after they die. USA has something similar, but it only begins at around $11 million, so at least most ordinary Americans avoid this kind of open property-theft socialism.
At any rate, it's theoretical, America will certainly not collapse during my working years in the coming decades. But my kids time, doubtful but who knows?Replies: @Dmitry
The interesting fact, though, is that I’m not sure that the Democrats were particularly less anti-Communist than the Republicans were during the Cold War. JFK ran as a hawk in 1960 and it was Nixon who reached out to China and who implemented detente with the Soviet Union.
Also, what exactly did Ukrainians in the US have against the social safety net?
BTW, did Ukrainians in the US continue voting Republican even after the end of the Cold War?
The Swedish are doing a good job of replacing their culture, but it sure as heck isn’t being replaced with German.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Alice_Bah_Kuhnke_2014-12-17_001.jpg/220px-Alice_Bah_Kuhnke_2014-12-17_001.jpgReplies: @Denis
Schräge Musik at the end!Watching NBA and other sports events, when cameras switch to spectators, you can see exactly what Jung was writing about - even White Americans are very un-European in their behaviour and demeanour, on average.
This is true even for high class Americans.Replies: @Daniel Chieh
I’m reminded of Sailer’s(I believe?) construction of Trump as the First Black President.
*Western European countries like France and UK steal much of the money of people after they die. USA has something similar, but it only begins at around $11 million, so at least most ordinary Americans avoid this kind of open property-theft socialism.Replies: @AP
The thinking is, if America were to go full wildly left and anti European, than Ukraine could be a refuge. Although for me it would be Russia – my wife has a flat in central Moscow, I would easily get a poorly paid job at a hospital.
At any rate, it’s theoretical, America will certainly not collapse during my working years in the coming decades. But my kids time, doubtful but who knows?
They were from the time of Carter onward. Before that, not particularly.
It smelled of socialism.
For the most part, yes. Ukrainians are the “Cubans” of Eastern European-Americans.
Sweden’s Minister of Culture 2014-2019:
Indeed. Or not even for disparaging others. I’ve taken for granted that all public conversations are still private within my non-English-speaking family.
Even throughout the cold war period, during the 60’s & 70’s, it was a mixed bag. A lot of Ukrainians held skilled factory jobs and were union workers. Some held union positions and heavily encouraged others to vote Democratic. My father, worked in such a machine shop as an A operator machinist. Although he paid his union dues and attended union meetings, he always voted Republican, a true blue ‘Cuban of Eastern Europe’ as AP has pointed out. In Chicago, to this day, most Ukrainians still vote Democratic. Nothing gets done in Chicago without union approval. It’s a matter of making sure that your own bread gets buttered. But Chicagoans are an exception! 🙂
Over the last century you have had in America powerful White Russian lobby( probably what you morons try and misappropriate as a "Ukrainian" lobby), Italian lobby, Hungarian lobby from end/beginning or 19-20th century, Hungarian lobby from after 1956, Irish lobby (of course), jewish lobby, jewish lobby(anti-Russian) from pogroms, jewish lobby(anti-Russian ) from 1970's 80's USSR policy, Cuban lobby, pre-1941 German lobby, polish lobbies ( of various time periods) and many other ones.
................what you sure as fuck don't have and have NEVER, EVER had is a "Ukrainian " lobby you twat.
This is of course natural because no politician can campaign for support/donations in domestic and foreign policies to a group of obscure, outcast, failure people whose "claim to fame" is being smuggled out by the CIA from Germany in secret, being the worst white ethnic group in terms of achievement and money in the country...and general obscure shitheads.
For those other ethnic groups I mentioned in the list....it's quite obviously easy to try and openly campaign for their votes- like critising Castro for Cuban-immigrant vote . This is quite obviously not for "Ukrainians"....it's why to this day Kiev is viewed correctly as a Russian city , in America nobody can locate where one of the biggest countries in Europe is on a map over there in Pindostan, and why nearly every Hollywood film about a Russia gives him a "Ukrainian" name. Also it's why from the 1990's, there hasn't been a single big Banderatard come into existence in the US from the post-soviet collapse and emigration of highly qualified people
Do you even know who Jaresko and the Dr Death CIA Hippy Nazi bitch "Health" Minister of ukropia, Suprun voted for in the US ( two of the most high profile US-Nazi Banderatards who came back to f**K up Ukropia even more)? Of course not you idiot........though if there was an ACTUAL lobby in America, and you idiots were ACTUAL supporters of this fake state then you would know who this type of high profile Badneratard are and were on the Democrat/GOP line they stand
Utter nonsenseReplies: @Mikhail
At any rate, it's theoretical, America will certainly not collapse during my working years in the coming decades. But my kids time, doubtful but who knows?Replies: @Dmitry
It’s true Ukraine could be quite economically developed by about 2040 or 2050, if it can stabilize now.
Assume they might join the EU around 2030. And then assimilate to a lot of German style laws and regulations.
If it reaches something like Czech Republic level in the 2040s, it would not be so crazy to want to move there, or at least parts like Odessa.
I simply can't see this happening.
Gruzia is way ahead of Ukraine in organisation & technocrats. Turkey and Azerbaijan are relatively wealthy countries for Gruzia to have good trade relations with...but without full economic & political relations with Russia it's infrastructure and it's GDP are pitiful ( and that is despite excellent levels of FDI in a small country)
That is why even as far as 2030-2040 in the future...I can't see any way out of the nightmare that Ukropia is in now....and if Gruzia is nowhere near joining the EU now... I can't see when they can join.
Except if you're Israel ,good relations with powerful; &/or wealthy neighbors are essential in order to be succesful....and that is before we even get into the unrelenting freakshow and mess of Ukraine.Replies: @Dmitry
To do this , not only would there have to be full trade links restored with Russia…but the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania would have to become ultra–wealthy, high-tech , prosperous countries….with Ukraine providing the role to them in goods and services……, that they now provide to the main/wealthiest countries like UK,France, Germany, Holland , Italy, Scandinavian etcet,
I simply can’t see this happening.
Gruzia is way ahead of Ukraine in organisation & technocrats. Turkey and Azerbaijan are relatively wealthy countries for Gruzia to have good trade relations with…but without full economic & political relations with Russia it’s infrastructure and it’s GDP are pitiful ( and that is despite excellent levels of FDI in a small country)
That is why even as far as 2030-2040 in the future…I can’t see any way out of the nightmare that Ukropia is in now….and if Gruzia is nowhere near joining the EU now… I can’t see when they can join.
Except if you’re Israel ,good relations with powerful; &/or wealthy neighbors are essential in order to be succesful….and that is before we even get into the unrelenting freakshow and mess of Ukraine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Alice_Bah_Kuhnke_2014-12-17_001.jpg/220px-Alice_Bah_Kuhnke_2014-12-17_001.jpgReplies: @Denis
One of the most beautiful nations in Europe, and it’s being made completely unrecognizable in the name of diversity and tolerance. What a joke.
No such thing you dimwit. What happened was this fantasist maggot AP making up some braindead fantasist BS about “My people ( WTF?) blabla always voted Republican” ,even though since the time Banderatards came over to the US from after the war, there was nothing defining Democrats or Republicans as more anti-communist than the other, the Republicans weren’t particularly more socially-conservative/religious than the Democrats ( which this retard is probably trying to imply is convergant with Banderatard pseudo-beliefs)..and geographical blue/red areas were totally different to now ….other commentators unwittingly called this POS out for it…and the retard responded with more BS on top of the original lie to try and consolidate his cretinous claim.
Over the last century you have had in America powerful White Russian lobby( probably what you morons try and misappropriate as a “Ukrainian” lobby), Italian lobby, Hungarian lobby from end/beginning or 19-20th century, Hungarian lobby from after 1956, Irish lobby (of course), jewish lobby, jewish lobby(anti-Russian) from pogroms, jewish lobby(anti-Russian ) from 1970’s 80’s USSR policy, Cuban lobby, pre-1941 German lobby, polish lobbies ( of various time periods) and many other ones.
…………….what you sure as fuck don’t have and have NEVER, EVER had is a “Ukrainian ” lobby you twat.
This is of course natural because no politician can campaign for support/donations in domestic and foreign policies to a group of obscure, outcast, failure people whose “claim to fame” is being smuggled out by the CIA from Germany in secret, being the worst white ethnic group in terms of achievement and money in the country…and general obscure shitheads.
For those other ethnic groups I mentioned in the list….it’s quite obviously easy to try and openly campaign for their votes- like critising Castro for Cuban-immigrant vote . This is quite obviously not for “Ukrainians”….it’s why to this day Kiev is viewed correctly as a Russian city , in America nobody can locate where one of the biggest countries in Europe is on a map over there in Pindostan, and why nearly every Hollywood film about a Russia gives him a “Ukrainian” name. Also it’s why from the 1990’s, there hasn’t been a single big Banderatard come into existence in the US from the post-soviet collapse and emigration of highly qualified people
Do you even know who Jaresko and the Dr Death CIA Hippy Nazi bitch “Health” Minister of ukropia, Suprun voted for in the US ( two of the most high profile US-Nazi Banderatards who came back to f**K up Ukropia even more)? Of course not you idiot……..though if there was an ACTUAL lobby in America, and you idiots were ACTUAL supporters of this fake state then you would know who this type of high profile Badneratard are and were on the Democrat/GOP line they stand
Utter nonsense
http://web.archive.org/web/20050205051751/http://russian-americans.org/CRA_Art_Captive.htm
Former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower unveiling the statue of Taras Shecxhnko in Wasshington DC
Well of course the Sweden’s Minister of Culture has a non-Swedish appearance, but it looks (judging by the photo) more attractive than the average Swedish woman of that age.
https://imengine.hall.infomaker.io/imengine/image.php?uuid=2c8ab07d-5f58-4f8b-9846-8f86afab8ab2&type=preview&source=false&function=hardcrop&width=1200&height=800&q=80
I wish that strange Jew who used to give his opinions on whether he would bang women or not was still around, he would sort this all out.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
I don’t know about that, but she’s certainly not unattractive and looks rather athletic – I think that we need Thorfinnsson to help straighten this one out?
Athletic woman is better than fat
Which age? I don’t know how Swedish women of each specific age group look like anyway, I’m just curious.
https://d.radikal.ru/d40/1903/8b/8ebabbbad025.jpg In General, beauty is only a small percentage of women in any country in the world, even among young girls (for Sweden this is also true - having visited Sweden, it is easy to make sure that the average Swedish girl is very different from the average Swedish actress/model ). And women after 40 on average are less attractive than in 17 years.Replies: @Dmitry
Over the last century you have had in America powerful White Russian lobby( probably what you morons try and misappropriate as a "Ukrainian" lobby), Italian lobby, Hungarian lobby from end/beginning or 19-20th century, Hungarian lobby from after 1956, Irish lobby (of course), jewish lobby, jewish lobby(anti-Russian) from pogroms, jewish lobby(anti-Russian ) from 1970's 80's USSR policy, Cuban lobby, pre-1941 German lobby, polish lobbies ( of various time periods) and many other ones.
................what you sure as fuck don't have and have NEVER, EVER had is a "Ukrainian " lobby you twat.
This is of course natural because no politician can campaign for support/donations in domestic and foreign policies to a group of obscure, outcast, failure people whose "claim to fame" is being smuggled out by the CIA from Germany in secret, being the worst white ethnic group in terms of achievement and money in the country...and general obscure shitheads.
For those other ethnic groups I mentioned in the list....it's quite obviously easy to try and openly campaign for their votes- like critising Castro for Cuban-immigrant vote . This is quite obviously not for "Ukrainians"....it's why to this day Kiev is viewed correctly as a Russian city , in America nobody can locate where one of the biggest countries in Europe is on a map over there in Pindostan, and why nearly every Hollywood film about a Russia gives him a "Ukrainian" name. Also it's why from the 1990's, there hasn't been a single big Banderatard come into existence in the US from the post-soviet collapse and emigration of highly qualified people
Do you even know who Jaresko and the Dr Death CIA Hippy Nazi bitch "Health" Minister of ukropia, Suprun voted for in the US ( two of the most high profile US-Nazi Banderatards who came back to f**K up Ukropia even more)? Of course not you idiot........though if there was an ACTUAL lobby in America, and you idiots were ACTUAL supporters of this fake state then you would know who this type of high profile Badneratard are and were on the Democrat/GOP line they stand
Utter nonsenseReplies: @Mikhail
Sorry to say that White Russian lobby doesn’t have much if any influence. A sampling:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050205051751/http://russian-americans.org/CRA_Art_Captive.htm
One curious pattern of history is that as soon as the kikes reach critical mass, they set in motion a chain of events that leads to themselves stuck in ovens.
You’d have to be blind not to realize that we’re literally dealing with the synagogue of Satan here.
Roughly such as I think (perhaps inhabitants Sweden correct me ).
In General, beauty is only a small percentage of women in any country in the world, even among young girls (for Sweden this is also true – having visited Sweden, it is easy to make sure that the average Swedish girl is very different from the average Swedish actress/model ). And women after 40 on average are less attractive than in 17 years.
Algeria seems to have its own version of the Arab Spring right now. I wonder that’ll affect the flood of immigrants to Europe. Or Algerian imports of Russian weapons. Anything else interesting about it?
Plus, it’ll apparently lead to some kind of Egyptian solution, with the army being the new kingpin, same as the old kingpin before the now old president (in the case of Egypt formerly himself a general; in Algeria succeeded a long-serving president who had been a general) got too much entrenched.
She’s ugly
https://imengine.hall.infomaker.io/imengine/image.php?uuid=2c8ab07d-5f58-4f8b-9846-8f86afab8ab2&type=preview&source=false&function=hardcrop&width=1200&height=800&q=80
I wish that strange Jew who used to give his opinions on whether he would bang women or not was still around, he would sort this all out.
You're thinking of Greasy William.Replies: @Mr. Hack
https://imengine.hall.infomaker.io/imengine/image.php?uuid=2c8ab07d-5f58-4f8b-9846-8f86afab8ab2&type=preview&source=false&function=hardcrop&width=1200&height=800&q=80
I wish that strange Jew who used to give his opinions on whether he would bang women or not was still around, he would sort this all out.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
She doesn’t look bad for being in her 40s, though that photo is not very flattering. Appears she has drawn on eyebrows which is always a turn off.
You’re thinking of Greasy William.
‘We were just *checks notes* burning racism, kaffir’
They really haven’t been very violent so far and it doesn’t seem like the sort of issue that these people are going to die over. They look to me like the sort of people at the Gezi Park protests, not like they’re going to start a civil war.
You're thinking of Greasy William.Replies: @Mr. Hack
I think that she’s behind you on that ‘Greater Germany’ thingee…(a sleeper agent from Deep State) 🙂
Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930's don't have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.Replies: @Gerard2, @Konstantin, @Konstantin
But politically Baltic states are among the oldest guberniyas of Russian Empire and if not for terror campaigns in 1905 – 1907 and in 1917 – 1920 resulting in the creation of Baltic States, these territories would saw a massive influx of Russians much earlier. One could say that Baltic people paid for their independence in blood, but this argument goes both ways.
Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930's don't have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.Replies: @Gerard2, @Konstantin, @Konstantin
This “alien” status nonsense and restriction of political rights of Russians surely won’t go unanswered. “Russians always come for their money” (c) Bismark.
The most obvious and rather mild solution is to have Latvians experience exactly same apartheid for the same number of years (currently 28 years).
The only argument that could be had here is that Russians have it worse than nonwhite immigrant populations in Western Europe. But at least in these corners we don't have much sympathy for those immigrants either.
Kishka nepotyanet.
The only part I have have to contribute is that I personally found a lot of Algerians to be rather European in appearance, due to French ancestry. A girl I knew there had pale skin and green eyes.
I think there's been a lot of geneflow between Europe and North Africa before the French invaded North Africa, probably since at least neolithic times, or even before. Of course, there was a great traffic in female slaves from Europe. They often were bought to become wives, and so had many children. In old novels, the Tuareg were often said to be light-eyed. Probably not typical, but at least a sometimes thing. There are also black Berbers, from African slaves - they are considered lower caste.
Or due to Berber ancestry. Berbers are the original inhabitants of the Maghreb, and they are genetically closer to Europeans than any other population with pre-1492 roots outside of Europe.
many times - for example, some tribes of Siberia have blond hair and light eyes
https://media.nazaccent.ru/files/27/58/2758079a10ecbad755f622901c230b8c.jpg
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6702/287731.2c/0_bc663_fb69ae36_XL.jpeg.jpgReplies: @AP, @Philip Owen
They hadn’t been under Russian rule before the Great Northern War, which is to say, roughly three centuries ago.
The most obvious and rather mild solution is to have Latvians experience exactly same apartheid for the same number of years (currently 28 years).Replies: @reiner Tor, @LatW
Arguing for a settler population which could easily get citizenship if only it learned the language surely won’t generate much sympathy for Russians.
The only argument that could be had here is that Russians have it worse than nonwhite immigrant populations in Western Europe. But at least in these corners we don’t have much sympathy for those immigrants either.
The most obvious and rather mild solution is to have Latvians experience exactly same apartheid for the same number of years (currently 28 years).Replies: @reiner Tor, @LatW
UA, BY + 3B = big bite.
Kishka nepotyanet.
I wasn’t talking about the culture minister’s looks, and I’m sure their are plenty of immigrant women in Sweden who are attractive. I was thinking more about the fact that Sweden isn’t really Swedish anymore.
Maghrebis in general are a rather attractive people.
The former minister aside (who is half-Swedish as her coal burning mother is Swedish), the good news about Sweden’s vibrants is that they are exceptionally poorly integrated. Thus they have much less prominence than vibrants do in most other European countries.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Amanda_Lind_2018.jpeg/1280px-Amanda_Lind_2018.jpeg
As far as I know the Berbers is an example of the independent occurrence of light hair and eyes as a result of mutation spread in the population . Such mutation in history happened
many times – for example, some tribes of Siberia have blond hair and light eyes
Not really, they often have the strange lopsided, off, look that Orthodox Jews do, probably something to do with cousin marriage.
‘Lopsided look’? The young girl, at least in the bottom photo. has a very pretty symmetrical face structure. Her eyes have that slight exotic Asian look, but are quite large, the hazel type color matches her hair color to a tee.
Lol, what are you talking about? Maghrebis and Orthodox Jews look nothing alike, unless the Jews in question happen to be Sephardim who joined the Orthodox. Most Orthodox are Ashkenazim.
http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/berbers03.jpgReplies: @Denis
I’m pretty sure those are Siberians, not Maghrebis.
many times - for example, some tribes of Siberia have blond hair and light eyes
https://media.nazaccent.ru/files/27/58/2758079a10ecbad755f622901c230b8c.jpg
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6702/287731.2c/0_bc663_fb69ae36_XL.jpeg.jpgReplies: @AP, @Philip Owen
That’s not because of an independent mutation; Indo-Europeans had once lived in central Asia and these genes have spread around.
But blondes among Australian aborigines and Melanesians was the result of independent mutation, it is 100% proven. For this isolated population of blond people in Africa, Siberia, etc. is also likely to have independent origins.Replies: @AP
Here is a Berber, probably what DFH was talking about:
http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/berbers03.jpgReplies: @Denis
Well, I’ve spent some time in the Maghreb, and I met plenty beautiful women over there. They didn’t look like any Orthodox Jews I’ve ever seen.
-The religion clearly domesticates and tames behaviour of the brown ones though (it probably removes their violent behaviours), even as they have some politically radical protests.
Jared Taylor claims he’s banned from the EU…because of Poland:
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what’s behind this…merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they’re seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these “right-wing” governments actually are when they’re just running the usual “antifascist” script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).
It does speak to the paranoia around these matters. Taylor is a cipher even in his own country; is his fairly squishy brand of ethno-nationalism really a threat to the neoliberal consensus? Maybe the elites think the "consensus" on this issue is more brittle than people like me assume it is.
Then, of course, there is facebook at about the same time banning white nationalism and separatism.
What this really evokes to me is the crackdown on people advocating peace during WWI. What is funny is how many intellectuals (many Jewish) seem to blame that crackdown, like the war itself on nationalism. Rather to me, it seems like a case of the elites deciding on a crazy course and then fighting any attempt to correct the course.
The Western establishment is basically at war with Europeans. It is a political war, but with many of the consequences of real war. Surely, there were less Germans in Paris than there are blacks and North Africans there now. Europeans are paying an indeminity/tribute much larger than any in the past.
OT sort of but I’m getting a stream of anti-Zelensky facebook, and a few pro-Poroshenko, posts by various people in Ukraine. While I am not predicting a Poroshenko win (certainly not in the first round) I would certainly not be surprised if he wins the second round. I’d give him 40% at least.
I never got any pro-Yuschenko stuff on my feed.
Zelensky is popular among easterners because he is viewed as not as bad as Poroshenko (he donated a million dollars to the Ukrainian military, but he’s from Dnipropetrovsk and speaks better Russian than Ukrainian). If it was a pure east vs. west thing he wouldn’t stand a chance, but he also picks up some younger voters wanting radical change, from the west and center, which may be enough to put him over the top.
If voters chose him in the first round as a protest against corruption, but then decide he might be too inexperienced to lead the country he will probably lose. Poroshenko can also release a stream of dirt against him (apparently some former Yanukovich people occupy roles on his team – but so do reformist Maidanists) which will hurt him if it sticks.
Here is an article by Bershidsky comparing Zelensky to the Slovak candidate Caputova:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-29/slovakia-and-ukraine-election-populists-aren-t-like-the-others
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
Jared Taylor Are the Real Racists!
And maybe many Poles genuinely do find such explicit race talk repellent, since Poles were victims themselves of applied racial theories during the German occupation. I guess it also conflicts with their self-image as noble Catholic conservatives or whatever.
Still, if they had merely wanted to keep him away from Poland, there must have been other ways than having him banned from the entire EU. So I suspect there's something else at work here.Replies: @reiner Tor
When used as a values-neutral term, Jared Taylor probably can be considered a racist with good reason, since he explicitly regards race as the central component of identity.
And maybe many Poles genuinely do find such explicit race talk repellent, since Poles were victims themselves of applied racial theories during the German occupation. I guess it also conflicts with their self-image as noble Catholic conservatives or whatever.
Still, if they had merely wanted to keep him away from Poland, there must have been other ways than having him banned from the entire EU. So I suspect there’s something else at work here.
The European Parliament has spoken:
And some heartwarming news from France:
The protesting Classical scholars:
Interesting fact: the Algerian separatists selected the most European-looking women to plant the bombs that often targeted French women and children.
I think there’s been a lot of geneflow between Europe and North Africa before the French invaded North Africa, probably since at least neolithic times, or even before. Of course, there was a great traffic in female slaves from Europe. They often were bought to become wives, and so had many children. In old novels, the Tuareg were often said to be light-eyed. Probably not typical, but at least a sometimes thing. There are also black Berbers, from African slaves – they are considered lower caste.
I didn’t say they looked the same overall, I said they had a sort of facial asymmetry and frequent off-look which in that respect was similar to Orthodox Jews.
I went out with a cute Moroccan girl too once; it doesn’t mean they’re all like that.
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
Does Poland crack down very much on its internal nationalist groups like National Revival though?
But in any case events in the last few months have been rather disheartening.
They make up for it by the fact their current culture minister pretends to be black
The Berber family of Yacine Kateb in the 1940s. Yacine is the little boy. They look so normal.
Around 50% of Orthodox Jews, are from African and Middle Eastern countries like Morocco, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Tunisia, Libya, Iraq.
You can see brown skin of Haredi in the right
Brown ones often perfectly integrated with the lighter ones in the same politics and cults
And then National Religious (which a more normal and successful kind of Orthodox Jews) also seem about 50% 50% with the brown and lighter populations in their school.
–
The religion clearly domesticates and tames behaviour of the brown ones though (it probably removes their violent behaviours), even as they have some politically radical protests.
You date African women, with your politics? – unless I confused you with someone else here.
https://d.radikal.ru/d40/1903/8b/8ebabbbad025.jpg In General, beauty is only a small percentage of women in any country in the world, even among young girls (for Sweden this is also true - having visited Sweden, it is easy to make sure that the average Swedish girl is very different from the average Swedish actress/model ). And women after 40 on average are less attractive than in 17 years.Replies: @Dmitry
I haven’t been to Sweden.
But it’s surprising your post – I would have guessed Swedish women would age more attractively than most countries, considering overall conditions of Sweden: a country with low obesity, healthy diet, low sun exposure, high income and low pollution.
Or often, sadly, only after 30.
But I did not compare countries, my point was different: in any, absolutely any country in the world, beauties make up a relatively small percentage of girls. Those who (as a result of viewing photos on the Internet) think that all Swedish girls look like Ingrid Bergman/Anita Ekberg will be bitterly disappointed if they come to Sweden.
This also applies to Russia/ Poland/ Japan/China any country in the worldReplies: @Dmitry
Iraq:
http://www.iraqiembassy.us/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/photos/Children%20in%20School.JPG?itok=kg-qelxp
Iran:
Lebanon:
I have no idea about right-wing Polish movements tbh. I’d just suppose it might complicate matters when one of the most important national myths is resistance against the National Socialists (who were extreme racialists after all).
But in any case events in the last few months have been rather disheartening.
What are you trying to show? Something about their clothes?
I notice more the introduction of those nice Americans cars.
Aside from the oil wealth it would bring them abroad – the introduction of automobiles to Middle Eastern cities, was even more tragic than for the rest of us.
What happened when automobiles introduced to Middle Eastern cities:
Trillions of dollars in the ground. Artificial nitrogen fixation, rail, and trucks made food much cheaper. (A lot of this destabilization was because of the price of food - incredibly cheap, by past standards) Previously, a third of agricultural land in the US was devoted to feeding horses. Oil-powered shipping is much more efficient than coal. Then there's the whole idea of being an air hub, not to mention air conditioning.
Almost 90% of the drinking water in Saudi Arabia comes from fossil fuels. About 50% from desalination. About 40% from pumping deep groundwater, and a large amount is transported in tankers.
Though it has caused trouble too, I wouldn't like to be the last Arab in the Middle East when the oil runs out. I can almost understand why they are so gung ho about invading the West.
I simply can't see this happening.
Gruzia is way ahead of Ukraine in organisation & technocrats. Turkey and Azerbaijan are relatively wealthy countries for Gruzia to have good trade relations with...but without full economic & political relations with Russia it's infrastructure and it's GDP are pitiful ( and that is despite excellent levels of FDI in a small country)
That is why even as far as 2030-2040 in the future...I can't see any way out of the nightmare that Ukropia is in now....and if Gruzia is nowhere near joining the EU now... I can't see when they can join.
Except if you're Israel ,good relations with powerful; &/or wealthy neighbors are essential in order to be succesful....and that is before we even get into the unrelenting freakshow and mess of Ukraine.Replies: @Dmitry
Lol are you sure? It may be even more chaotic than Ukraine.
I know people talk about how they like Tbilisi, because it’s completely disorganized and you see many crazy and comic events every day living there.
But despite being an idiocracy, Georgia has still been developing for the last few years.
Combining their falling population and 5% GDP growth, it is not impossible Georgia could almost reach “developed economy” status in the 2030s or 2040s.
Oil really profoundly changed the Middle East.
Trillions of dollars in the ground. Artificial nitrogen fixation, rail, and trucks made food much cheaper. (A lot of this destabilization was because of the price of food – incredibly cheap, by past standards) Previously, a third of agricultural land in the US was devoted to feeding horses. Oil-powered shipping is much more efficient than coal. Then there’s the whole idea of being an air hub, not to mention air conditioning.
Almost 90% of the drinking water in Saudi Arabia comes from fossil fuels. About 50% from desalination. About 40% from pumping deep groundwater, and a large amount is transported in tankers.
Though it has caused trouble too, I wouldn’t like to be the last Arab in the Middle East when the oil runs out. I can almost understand why they are so gung ho about invading the West.
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
Maybe they just lump Taylor in with the rest of the “alt-right” riff-raff on whom they have some kind of blanket exclusion policy? I might do that if I were in their shoes; it’s difficult enough for these governments to deflect the “RACIST!” slurs against their immigration policies without some fringy American “white nationalist” going around stirring up trouble (I’d be interested to know what kinds of organizations he was associating with on his last visit to Poland).
It does speak to the paranoia around these matters. Taylor is a cipher even in his own country; is his fairly squishy brand of ethno-nationalism really a threat to the neoliberal consensus? Maybe the elites think the “consensus” on this issue is more brittle than people like me assume it is.
Anthropologists who studied these Siberian tribes believe that this is the result of an independent mutation (in small and isolated hunting tribes such mutations, once happened, easily “fixed”).
Probably genetics will soon provide an accurate answer to the question of the origin of the Siberian (also Caucasian, Berber, Himalayan and other non-European) “blondes”.
But blondes among Australian aborigines and Melanesians was the result of independent mutation, it is 100% proven. For this isolated population of blond people in Africa, Siberia, etc. is also likely to have independent origins.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/#.XJ9uCndFyUk
Apparently the blond mutation among Indo-Europeans originated in Siberia ~14,000 years ago. It's pretty likely that it spread among non-European peoples also.
Wiki says "The derived allele of KITLG associated with blond hair in modern Europeans is present in several individuals of the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) lineage, and is recorded in Mesolithic Eastern Europe as associated with the Eastern European Hunter-Gatherer (EHG) lineage derived from ANE. The earliest known individual with the derived allele is the ANE Afontova Gora 3 individual, dated to 14,700 years ago.[33]"
And maybe many Poles genuinely do find such explicit race talk repellent, since Poles were victims themselves of applied racial theories during the German occupation. I guess it also conflicts with their self-image as noble Catholic conservatives or whatever.
Still, if they had merely wanted to keep him away from Poland, there must have been other ways than having him banned from the entire EU. So I suspect there's something else at work here.Replies: @reiner Tor
I guess the joke about the guy advising the other that he cannot outrun the bear (“But I only have to outrun you!”) applies here: Polish (or Hungarian) nationalists are thinking that they don’t have to be globohomos, just less nationalist than Jared Tayler (or in Hungary’s case Richard Spencer). It’s pretty demented, because of course there will be a next round.
Attractiveness thing subjective – for a lover of tall blondes Scandinavia (and the North-Western part of Russia) is just a Paradise. For a lover of petite brunettes is better to go to Spain.
But I did not compare countries, my point was different: in any, absolutely any country in the world, beauties make up a relatively small percentage of girls. Those who (as a result of viewing photos on the Internet) think that all Swedish girls look like Ingrid Bergman/Anita Ekberg will be bitterly disappointed if they come to Sweden.
This also applies to Russia/ Poland/ Japan/China any country in the world
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
Their only use is for Israel and US strategy to split or weaken the EU. They don’t give a damn about Polish or Hungarian national aspirations.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-urges-poland-to-deny-entry-to-british-holocaust-denier-david-irving/
Poland says Holocaust denier David Irving ‘not welcome’ on death camp tour (24 March 2019)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-holocaust-denier-david-irving-not-welcome-on-death-camp-tour/Replies: @German_reader
Israel urges Poland to deny entry to British Holocaust denier David Irving (20 March 2019)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-urges-poland-to-deny-entry-to-british-holocaust-denier-david-irving/
Poland says Holocaust denier David Irving ‘not welcome’ on death camp tour (24 March 2019)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-holocaust-denier-david-irving-not-welcome-on-death-camp-tour/
I don't think Taylor has ever expressed positive views of Nazi Germany though (he'd probably fault Hitler for having caused the deaths of so many white Europeans), nor is he explicitly antisemitic. It's also ridiculous to claim that he's likely to incite violence.
It just seems perverse to ban him, especially at a time when thousands of IS jihadis are returning to Europe, often facing nothing more than being welcomed by some social worker who's to help them with "reintegrating".
I guess this shows how deep the rot really goes and how grim the situation is.Replies: @utu
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
I think it is something bigger. Probably coordination, with New Zealand as the excuse. Martin Sellner supposedly can’t enter the US, which is really shocking to me, even moreso than Poland banning someone. I guess it’s inevitable that the US Constitution will become totally meaningless – it’s been a joke for years.
Then, of course, there is facebook at about the same time banning white nationalism and separatism.
What this really evokes to me is the crackdown on people advocating peace during WWI. What is funny is how many intellectuals (many Jewish) seem to blame that crackdown, like the war itself on nationalism. Rather to me, it seems like a case of the elites deciding on a crazy course and then fighting any attempt to correct the course.
The Western establishment is basically at war with Europeans. It is a political war, but with many of the consequences of real war. Surely, there were less Germans in Paris than there are blacks and North Africans there now. Europeans are paying an indeminity/tribute much larger than any in the past.
But blondes among Australian aborigines and Melanesians was the result of independent mutation, it is 100% proven. For this isolated population of blond people in Africa, Siberia, etc. is also likely to have independent origins.Replies: @AP
Maybe. Independent mutation certainly explains blondes in Melanesia. But in Siberia, this is also a likely explanation:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/#.XJ9uCndFyUk
Apparently the blond mutation among Indo-Europeans originated in Siberia ~14,000 years ago. It’s pretty likely that it spread among non-European peoples also.
Wiki says “The derived allele of KITLG associated with blond hair in modern Europeans is present in several individuals of the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) lineage, and is recorded in Mesolithic Eastern Europe as associated with the Eastern European Hunter-Gatherer (EHG) lineage derived from ANE. The earliest known individual with the derived allele is the ANE Afontova Gora 3 individual, dated to 14,700 years ago.[33]”
An example of schmuck journalism:
https://thinkprogress.org/alan-dershowitz-russia-propaganda-02f4cf31c533/
Calling RT propaganda, unlike MSNBC and CNN, in addition to calling someone with a valid view, a conspiracy theorist.
Southwest grounds Boeing 737 MAX jets until end of May
Mar. 30, 2019 10:11 AM ET|About: Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV)|By: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor
Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) says it will was pull its 34 Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets from the company’s flight schedules through the end of May, according to Reuters. An earlier timeline had the Boeing 737 MAX jets grounded until April 20.
“This will impact the lines in May, but, now that the decision has been made, we can construct our schedule without those flights well in advance in hopes to minimize the daily disruptions,” says the company and the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association in a joint memorandum.
Southwest is in the process of publishing a new schedule for May to take into the account the Boeing 737 Max 8 grounding.
Shares of LUV are up 11.7% YTD and trade at just under 11X 2019 EPS estimates.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3447072-southwest-grounds-boeing-737-max-jets-end-may
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-urges-poland-to-deny-entry-to-british-holocaust-denier-david-irving/
Poland says Holocaust denier David Irving ‘not welcome’ on death camp tour (24 March 2019)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-holocaust-denier-david-irving-not-welcome-on-death-camp-tour/Replies: @German_reader
Banning David Irving is understandable imo, since Poland is obviously extremely sensitive to anything that would downplay Nazi German crimes.
I don’t think Taylor has ever expressed positive views of Nazi Germany though (he’d probably fault Hitler for having caused the deaths of so many white Europeans), nor is he explicitly antisemitic. It’s also ridiculous to claim that he’s likely to incite violence.
It just seems perverse to ban him, especially at a time when thousands of IS jihadis are returning to Europe, often facing nothing more than being welcomed by some social worker who’s to help them with “reintegrating”.
I guess this shows how deep the rot really goes and how grim the situation is.
I don't think Taylor has ever expressed positive views of Nazi Germany though (he'd probably fault Hitler for having caused the deaths of so many white Europeans), nor is he explicitly antisemitic. It's also ridiculous to claim that he's likely to incite violence.
It just seems perverse to ban him, especially at a time when thousands of IS jihadis are returning to Europe, often facing nothing more than being welcomed by some social worker who's to help them with "reintegrating".
I guess this shows how deep the rot really goes and how grim the situation is.Replies: @utu
Jared Taylor is a useless windbag.
I think even Charles Murray is useful, although I consider him rather soft on immigration and the realities of race. Taylor runs a moderately useful website and conferences, anyway. Ideally, he'd be producing popular mass entertainment/propaganda. But since no one on the Right is doing that, it is probably not too easy to do outside the existing Leftist framework.Replies: @utu
It’s really a no-brainer. Banning some no-name from the west in return for some signalling points, while refusing to ban him = one more argument for the west and for the internal opposition to call current government “fascists”. And here they can say “see, we banned this awful rascist… eee what was his name? Haredi Taylor? That’s right! We are not racists!”
I’m opposed to gaining virtue signaling points by punching right. It’s also a kind of national psychopathy to not care for other countries in the same civilization. It’s also pretty shortsighted. The fate of Poland will be decided in Western Europe and the US. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president. We should at least do minimal damage to the people fighting this future there.Replies: @DFH, @szopen
https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/
If true, I wonder what's behind this...merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they're seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these "right-wing" governments actually are when they're just running the usual "antifascist" script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH, @Anonymous, @utu, @songbird, @szopen
Why Polish government should care about some foreigner, actually?
And it's a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
If Jared Taylor is promoting a "totalitarian ideology", why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn't that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
And if it's ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn't Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.Replies: @szopen, @utu, @Anonymous
If they had merely refused him entry to Poland, I don’t think there would be reason to complain…but having him banned from the entire EU?
And it’s a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
If Jared Taylor is promoting a “totalitarian ideology”, why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn’t that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
And if it’s ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn’t Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.
It's really simple. Jared Taylor is no one. He has not political support. Banning him costs you nothing. Not banning might cost you something.
Another thing is that it's not necessarily "Government". The administration is large and numerous, and it's not like it got purged with the elections.Replies: @German_reader
David Irving had much more to offer to European self understanding before his livelihood and reputations was destroyed by Jewish Americans and his work could and still can lead to some healing of deep wounds left by the WWII. America and its Jared Taylors can only keep festering this wounds.Replies: @German_reader
What would make him useful? If he were anti-ZOG? He went to Yale and probably had a lot of Jewish friends, but he’s not a neocon, as far as I know.
I think even Charles Murray is useful, although I consider him rather soft on immigration and the realities of race. Taylor runs a moderately useful website and conferences, anyway. Ideally, he’d be producing popular mass entertainment/propaganda. But since no one on the Right is doing that, it is probably not too easy to do outside the existing Leftist framework.
And it's a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
If Jared Taylor is promoting a "totalitarian ideology", why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn't that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
And if it's ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn't Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.Replies: @szopen, @utu, @Anonymous
Welcome to the real world 😀
It’s really simple. Jared Taylor is no one. He has not political support. Banning him costs you nothing. Not banning might cost you something.
Another thing is that it’s not necessarily “Government”. The administration is large and numerous, and it’s not like it got purged with the elections.
But validating the claim that any sort of pro-white activism, even explicitly non-violent one, is eeeeeeeevil and deserves to be crushed with extraordinary measures like bans from most of the European continent...well, if one thinks like that, there's not much of a basis for rejecting the coming African mass immigration.
But then I suppose Polish right-wingers just assume they won't be affected anyway. They seem to have this idea that they can grab all the goodies from EU/NATO membership, but still maintain their homogenous Catholic national community, all the while preening themseles on their heroic past and looking down on the decadent West which undergoes rapid demographic transformation. Well, good luck with that.
Naturally, I agree with your explanation – I was too clumsy to press Agree instead of Disagree – there is no way to correct it that I am aware of,
It's really simple. Jared Taylor is no one. He has not political support. Banning him costs you nothing. Not banning might cost you something.
Another thing is that it's not necessarily "Government". The administration is large and numerous, and it's not like it got purged with the elections.Replies: @German_reader
Again, if they merely had stated he’s not welcome in Poland and refused him entry in/deported him from Poland, it wouldn’t be a problem, just a wholly legitimate manifestation of Polish sovereignty.
But validating the claim that any sort of pro-white activism, even explicitly non-violent one, is eeeeeeeevil and deserves to be crushed with extraordinary measures like bans from most of the European continent…well, if one thinks like that, there’s not much of a basis for rejecting the coming African mass immigration.
But then I suppose Polish right-wingers just assume they won’t be affected anyway. They seem to have this idea that they can grab all the goodies from EU/NATO membership, but still maintain their homogenous Catholic national community, all the while preening themseles on their heroic past and looking down on the decadent West which undergoes rapid demographic transformation. Well, good luck with that.
You can simply change it after some time.
I agree about the attempt to get signalling points, although obviously it’s totally ineffective. I don’t think they would have been blamed for allowing him in though; did anyone care about his visit last year?
And it's a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
If Jared Taylor is promoting a "totalitarian ideology", why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn't that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
And if it's ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn't Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.Replies: @szopen, @utu, @Anonymous
Jared Taylor exemplifies American racist provisionalism. The American concept of Whiteness was invented in the American South from where it metastasized to almost all America with the help of American oligarchy. Europe and Poland is not interested in American primitive racial categories. Europeans fortunately did not get infected with the American White pseudo-identity so far because they still have a rich cultural heritage from which they can draw the sense who they are. The Islamic thread to Europe of which you are so concerned will be easily contained once the political will will be regained. On the other hand Americanization is a of much greater threat to Europeans in the long run.
David Irving had much more to offer to European self understanding before his livelihood and reputations was destroyed by Jewish Americans and his work could and still can lead to some healing of deep wounds left by the WWII. America and its Jared Taylors can only keep festering this wounds.
And there's absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren't strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what's going on in neighbouring European countries...it's the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
I don't see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.Replies: @DFH, @utu, @utu
I think even Charles Murray is useful, although I consider him rather soft on immigration and the realities of race. Taylor runs a moderately useful website and conferences, anyway. Ideally, he'd be producing popular mass entertainment/propaganda. But since no one on the Right is doing that, it is probably not too easy to do outside the existing Leftist framework.Replies: @utu
He is as much useful as some ornithologist who is concerned about some pond being overtaken by migrating Canadian gees to the detriment of the indigenous loons, who talks about it but mostly because he is in love with his own voice while really not giving a fuck about the loons and the outcome.
And it's a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
If Jared Taylor is promoting a "totalitarian ideology", why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn't that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
And if it's ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn't Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.Replies: @szopen, @utu, @Anonymous
I doubt the Polish authorities are parsing Taylor’s message and ideology that closely. What’s more likely is they see an American associating with native far-right groups and getting attention for it, this gets them concerned, they spend 5 minutes Googling Taylor based on which they designate him some kind of crypto-Nazi and terrorist sympathizer (Dylann Roof), and he gets banned. It may have just been the judgment of some mid-level customs bureaucrat; I don’t think decisions like this get a particularly high degree of scrutiny (in the US they certainly don’t seem to).
David Irving had much more to offer to European self understanding before his livelihood and reputations was destroyed by Jewish Americans and his work could and still can lead to some healing of deep wounds left by the WWII. America and its Jared Taylors can only keep festering this wounds.Replies: @German_reader
It’s not merely an Islamic threat (though that is a very important component), it’s also about the demographic explosion of non-Islamic Africa (which is very hard to reject if you accept the standard “antiracist” narrative).
And there’s absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.
I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren’t strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what’s going on in neighbouring European countries…it’s the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
I don’t see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.
Anyway, I don't really see what the particularly American problem is since his beloved Hitler actually did talk about the concept of Europe quite a bit
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=_3n3YQnbW_sReplies: @German_reader
Note that Israel-Russia rapprochement under auspices of Chabad Lubavichers in recent years (building monuments to Red Army soldiers in Israel and having Netanyahu at WWII Victory Parade in Moscow and building synagogue all over Russia) leads to a common historical politics by Israel and Russia, i.e, the glorification of the Red Army as the savior of the Jews and the World and at the same time cementing the Holocaust narrative. So the chances that the archives in Moscow concerning the WWII and the Holocaust being open and reevaluated are now nil.
On the other thread I wrote a comment today that is related to this issue that I modified slightly. If Europe will be saved it will be by Germany, France and Italy and the V4 countries onece they shake off false promises of USrael protection against the imaginary thread of Russia and false protection against the Islamic immigration that is engineered by Israel anyway.
The bottom line is that the enemy of Europe is the US and Israel. The anti-Russian histeria an paranoia is to split Russia from Europe and draw it eventually to American sphere of influenc against Europe and China.Replies: @German_reader
And there's absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren't strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what's going on in neighbouring European countries...it's the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
I don't see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.Replies: @DFH, @utu, @utu
There are probably several thousand more important things that European nationalists should be considering than the effects of American white racial identity upon Europeans.
Anyway, I don’t really see what the particularly American problem is since his beloved Hitler actually did talk about the concept of Europe quite a bit
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=_3n3YQnbW_s
Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that...understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.And no offense, but in general I really have to wonder about your reflexive defense of the US, given your strong anti-black and antisemitic views. The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.btw, I can't watch the video you linked to...banned in Germany, lol.Replies: @DFH, @Hyperborean
Anyway, I don't really see what the particularly American problem is since his beloved Hitler actually did talk about the concept of Europe quite a bit
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=_3n3YQnbW_sReplies: @German_reader
In general American influence is absolutely pernicious, something like that anti-“blackface” protest in Paris mentioned above is clearly an import of American racial discourse (as is the denigration of “old white men” which is increasingly common in European media), like so much else of “antiracism”.
Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that…understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.
And no offense, but in general I really have to wonder about your reflexive defense of the US, given your strong anti-black and antisemitic views. The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.
btw, I can’t watch the video you linked to…banned in Germany, lol.
I have seen cases of both American white nationalists (calling the Baltic countries of Estonia and Latvia "homogeneous" because there are no non-whites there) and liberals (complaining that "the white kid" was carrying the Soviet banner in an USSR textbook praising inter-ethnic coexistence) doing this.
I find it disturbing because of Europeans current-day mental dependence means that Europe risks simply becoming an overseas extension of the USA, and even if America was not its present mess and was instead Karlin’s idealised 1950's America I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*
*As an example, Henry Ford, of The International Jew infamy, used to have "English Schools" at his factories where people would be encouraged to become Americans and at the "graduation" they would go into a building wearing traditional dress and come out of the building wearing American clothes.Replies: @David Davenport, @songbird
And there's absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren't strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what's going on in neighbouring European countries...it's the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
I don't see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.Replies: @DFH, @utu, @utu
Not rehabilitation but normalization. Irving was a main stream historian respected by other historians with great reputation. Irving work could lead to sealing the artificial cracks created for propaganda purposes by Anglo-Americans Jews and Soviets in the fabric of European identity. Europe could heal and stop being being played against each other by the anti-European forces like Americans, Russians and Jews. And Irving was very successful in bringing human dimension to Germans and their rational. He wa able to bring human dimension to the real ‘Nazis’ and get away form the two dimensional Nazis that even intelligent and reasonable people like ‘reiner Tor’ got incurably inculcated with. He was very dangerous to the dominant two dimensional cartoon narrative. The Holocaust issue used against him was just a ruse. He fell for it. It was his mistake. A sin of pride most likely. He was too good and too successful at what he was doing in the legitimate historical research that was top notch so he had to be destroyed.
Note that Israel-Russia rapprochement under auspices of Chabad Lubavichers in recent years (building monuments to Red Army soldiers in Israel and having Netanyahu at WWII Victory Parade in Moscow and building synagogue all over Russia) leads to a common historical politics by Israel and Russia, i.e, the glorification of the Red Army as the savior of the Jews and the World and at the same time cementing the Holocaust narrative. So the chances that the archives in Moscow concerning the WWII and the Holocaust being open and reevaluated are now nil.
On the other thread I wrote a comment today that is related to this issue that I modified slightly.
If Europe will be saved it will be by Germany, France and Italy and the V4 countries onece they shake off false promises of USrael protection against the imaginary thread of Russia and false protection against the Islamic immigration that is engineered by Israel anyway.
The bottom line is that the enemy of Europe is the US and Israel. The anti-Russian histeria an paranoia is to split Russia from Europe and draw it eventually to American sphere of influenc against Europe and China.
It's also convenient for everybody else to lay sole responsibility for everything that went wrong during the 1914-1945 era on Germany (the issue isn't limited to WW2, Germany's WW1 war guilt is still an article of faith for many). You can see this even with Italians who get to claim that they were always just brava gente, fundamentally decent folk (even when they dropped mustard gas on Ethiopians), unlike the uniquely evil Teutons (and who find a ready audience for that view, as demonstrated by AK's "Mussolini did nothing wrong" article). German evil is a great foil for one's own humanity or heroism.
And there is also zero prospect of revisionism ever gaining ground in Germany itself (which is clearly in a terminal phase as a nation and has devolved into complete infantilism). A few years ago, when I still watched television, I watched some stupid talk show. One of the guests was Serdar Somuncu, a Turkish-born "comedian" who has made a career of lecturing Germans about the Nazi past (something to which he has no personal connection, since his kind wasn't here back then). Somuncu suggested Germans shouldn't mourn for German WW2 dead at all, but only for the victims of Nazi crimes. No one objected, apparently everyone agreed. That kind of attitude is typical of today's Germany.Replies: @utu, @Epigon
And there's absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren't strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what's going on in neighbouring European countries...it's the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
I don't see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.Replies: @DFH, @utu, @utu
Two months ago I suggest the following angle for Germans as part of of populist movement (in search of acceptable to Germans enem as each populist movement must have an enemy. The enemy is America and Americanization.)
-Historical association of anti-Americanism with fringe far-right and far-left movements which are generally regarded as cranky, ineffectual failures
-America is not a remote, abstract entity; almost everybody likes at least some American stuff (especially young people), which can induce cognitive dissonance
-Although America is in some respects dysfunctional, it is still in many other aspects a highly functional and even aspirational society. If you cite American diversity as a weakness the opposition can easily point to e.g. Silicon Valley (since all countries would like to have something like Silicon Valley within their borders)
Also, while American racial categories have historically not had much applicability to the European context, I don't think this is the case anymore today: as long as you have relative freedom of movement between European states (which will be the case for the foreseeable future), combined with substantial MENA presence in those states, people are going to make distinctions between "white" (European) and "non-white," if only on a subconscious levelReplies: @utu
Anti-Americanism is difficult to exploit as a political force, especially in Europe, for a few reasons:
-Historical association of anti-Americanism with fringe far-right and far-left movements which are generally regarded as cranky, ineffectual failures
-America is not a remote, abstract entity; almost everybody likes at least some American stuff (especially young people), which can induce cognitive dissonance
-Although America is in some respects dysfunctional, it is still in many other aspects a highly functional and even aspirational society. If you cite American diversity as a weakness the opposition can easily point to e.g. Silicon Valley (since all countries would like to have something like Silicon Valley within their borders)
Also, while American racial categories have historically not had much applicability to the European context, I don’t think this is the case anymore today: as long as you have relative freedom of movement between European states (which will be the case for the foreseeable future), combined with substantial MENA presence in those states, people are going to make distinctions between “white” (European) and “non-white,” if only on a subconscious level
Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that...understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.And no offense, but in general I really have to wonder about your reflexive defense of the US, given your strong anti-black and antisemitic views. The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.btw, I can't watch the video you linked to...banned in Germany, lol.Replies: @DFH, @Hyperborean
It’s the very fact that everyone in Western Europe is indoctrinated about the struggles of American blacks which means that they need the counter narrative
Well American white nationalists obviously aren’t and most Western Europeans are even more pro-black
Mainstream white right-wingers in the US have integrated the civil rights movement into their narrative of why the US is so wonderful and exceptional.
Note that Israel-Russia rapprochement under auspices of Chabad Lubavichers in recent years (building monuments to Red Army soldiers in Israel and having Netanyahu at WWII Victory Parade in Moscow and building synagogue all over Russia) leads to a common historical politics by Israel and Russia, i.e, the glorification of the Red Army as the savior of the Jews and the World and at the same time cementing the Holocaust narrative. So the chances that the archives in Moscow concerning the WWII and the Holocaust being open and reevaluated are now nil.
On the other thread I wrote a comment today that is related to this issue that I modified slightly. If Europe will be saved it will be by Germany, France and Italy and the V4 countries onece they shake off false promises of USrael protection against the imaginary thread of Russia and false protection against the Islamic immigration that is engineered by Israel anyway.
The bottom line is that the enemy of Europe is the US and Israel. The anti-Russian histeria an paranoia is to split Russia from Europe and draw it eventually to American sphere of influenc against Europe and China.Replies: @German_reader
That’s an illusion. The resentment against Germany in most European countries isn’t based just on American, Soviet or Jewish propaganda. It has a factual basis in German actions during WW2, which in many cases were of an undeniably criminal nature. No amount of revisionism (unless it’s just propaganda itself) will ever make the deliberate mass killings of Polish elites or the massacres of civilians during anti-partisan operations look good, nor are Heydrich’s musings about the need to deport half of all Czechs ever likely to inspire much sympathy in the Czech republic. This isn’t necessarily linked to pro-American or pro-Jewish attitudes either. Greeks are highly anti-American (and supposedly also quite antisemitic, if one can trust the polls commissioned by Jewish organizations), but they still resent Germany because of the massacres and the cultural vandalism during the German occupation.
It’s also convenient for everybody else to lay sole responsibility for everything that went wrong during the 1914-1945 era on Germany (the issue isn’t limited to WW2, Germany’s WW1 war guilt is still an article of faith for many). You can see this even with Italians who get to claim that they were always just brava gente, fundamentally decent folk (even when they dropped mustard gas on Ethiopians), unlike the uniquely evil Teutons (and who find a ready audience for that view, as demonstrated by AK’s “Mussolini did nothing wrong” article). German evil is a great foil for one’s own humanity or heroism.
And there is also zero prospect of revisionism ever gaining ground in Germany itself (which is clearly in a terminal phase as a nation and has devolved into complete infantilism). A few years ago, when I still watched television, I watched some stupid talk show. One of the guests was Serdar Somuncu, a Turkish-born “comedian” who has made a career of lecturing Germans about the Nazi past (something to which he has no personal connection, since his kind wasn’t here back then). Somuncu suggested Germans shouldn’t mourn for German WW2 dead at all, but only for the victims of Nazi crimes. No one objected, apparently everyone agreed. That kind of attitude is typical of today’s Germany.
You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words "We forgive and ask for forgiveness". You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie "Tonight a City Will Die" about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k
Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel "Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death" centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish "burglar" outfit.
Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future 'reined Tors" are now conditioned by Tarantino's "Inglourious Basterds." I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.
Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.
Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @reiner Tor
Greek Orthodox Church is a tool, and divided inside - their nominal hierarchs are despised by monks and priests.
They have football Ultras that are unironically far left.They go for a riot, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalism and all that jazz, and then elect a complete American stooge and Soros plant - “leftist” Tsipras, and that obnoxious ‘tard Varoufakis, who immediately do exactly what people were protesting against - and no problem! Well, of course, because that whole affair was American orchestrated to weaken EU, Germany and German banks, not expression of Greek sovereignity and popular will. Macedonia issue springs up - people protest, 70% of public against - government decides in favour of it - no problem. In Macedonia, referendum fails - again, atlanticists couldn’t care less.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
American white nationalists are an insignificant fringe movement and likely to always remain so.
Mainstream white right-wingers in the US have integrated the civil rights movement into their narrative of why the US is so wonderful and exceptional.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/magazine/battle-over-bds-israel-palestinians-antisemitism.html
Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that...understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.And no offense, but in general I really have to wonder about your reflexive defense of the US, given your strong anti-black and antisemitic views. The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.btw, I can't watch the video you linked to...banned in Germany, lol.Replies: @DFH, @Hyperborean
While race is of course important, I also find this tendency to think in terms of continental races and sideline ethnicity unsettling.
I have seen cases of both American white nationalists (calling the Baltic countries of Estonia and Latvia “homogeneous” because there are no non-whites there) and liberals (complaining that “the white kid” was carrying the Soviet banner in an USSR textbook praising inter-ethnic coexistence) doing this.
I find it disturbing because of Europeans current-day mental dependence means that Europe risks simply becoming an overseas extension of the USA, and even if America was not its present mess and was instead Karlin’s idealised 1950’s America I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*
*As an example, Henry Ford, of The International Jew infamy, used to have “English Schools” at his factories where people would be encouraged to become Americans and at the “graduation” they would go into a building wearing traditional dress and come out of the building wearing American clothes.
What are these dangerous assumptions of which you speak? Please elucidate.Replies: @Hyperborean
Perhaps, the first blacks who moved to Detroit were the smarter and more capable ones, but still it would have been impossible not to make observations. Blacks in the North were problematic, even when they were a small population, judging by historical newspapers - which often presented their criminal cases as entertainment pieces.
Maybe, it was in part because he was born a hick, but Ford could be heavily implicated in the destruction of Detroit. Sort of interesting because he saw cities as rotting dens of corruption and predicted that industry would move into rural areas.
Another interesting idea he had was that planes would revolutionize the labor market and teams of men would be flown where they were needed, crisscrossing the country. If he had only known that the planes would be used to bring in hordes of unemployable hostile men who were looking to settle in the West and that many Jews would be cheerleading the process.
Perhaps its my transatlantic background, but I find the US vs. Europe discourse silly. Fact is that America and Europe are confronted with broadly the same problems.
Europeans can paint to the malign influence of the US Empire on Europe, but the US Empire is also the enemy of Americans. Other than the hapless victims of American militarism we’re the first victims of the US Empire.
The Americanization of racial discourse in Europe is a predictable consequence of importing American-style racial problems into Europe.
What is now called “white nationalism” was the de facto American racial policy from the middle of the 17th century until the middle of the 20th century. Similar views took root in other European offshoots in the New World. Now that Europe is cursed with diversity it’s not surprising that some Europeans are discovering what their cousins across the water did four centuries ago.
But I'm convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They'd see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln's war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims. If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line "Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago" (and of course leftie critics of "AmeriKKKa" agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @for-the-record, @DFH
Europeans can paint to the malign influence of the US Empire on Europe, but the US Empire is also the enemy of Americans. Other than the hapless victims of American militarism we're the first victims of the US Empire.
The Americanization of racial discourse in Europe is a predictable consequence of importing American-style racial problems into Europe.
What is now called "white nationalism" was the de facto American racial policy from the middle of the 17th century until the middle of the 20th century. Similar views took root in other European offshoots in the New World. Now that Europe is cursed with diversity it's not surprising that some Europeans are discovering what their cousins across the water did four centuries ago.Replies: @German_reader
I actually do think that plays a role. And maybe it’s similar for other Americans with some ties to Europe.
But I’m convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They’d see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln’s war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims.
If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line “Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago” (and of course leftie critics of “AmeriKKKa” agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.
But I'm convinced I'm right.
More on this later. Unfortunately this is true, but not unique to America. You can find many such Europeans. You've brought up your discussions with a "CDU cuck" who fancies himself an amateur secret policeman. The British promised freedom to slaves who were willing to fight with them against the American revolutionaries.
That said there was something strange here. And here is where my transatlantic background finally becomes useful.
America is flawed from the outset in that the American Revolution was based on a pack of egalitarian lies. These lies weren't what actually motivated the Revolution, but the revolutionaries worked with the fashionable ideas in circulation at the time.
The American Renaissance set is not wrong and has much historical evidence available to support their position, but unfortunately the opposite is true as well.Replies: @German_reader
Well, to a certain extent they weren't, at least in the South. And when the US was fighting Nazi "racism", blacks couldn't eat in "white" restaurants in Washington, DC. On a national level, the US Armed Forces were of course also segregated (until 1948).
But I'm convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They'd see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln's war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims. If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line "Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago" (and of course leftie critics of "AmeriKKKa" agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @for-the-record, @DFH
My transatlantic background does play a role, which is why I brought it up. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said…perhaps.
But I’m convinced I’m right.
More on this later.
Unfortunately this is true, but not unique to America. You can find many such Europeans. You’ve brought up your discussions with a “CDU cuck” who fancies himself an amateur secret policeman.
The British promised freedom to slaves who were willing to fight with them against the American revolutionaries.
That said there was something strange here.
And here is where my transatlantic background finally becomes useful.
America is flawed from the outset in that the American Revolution was based on a pack of egalitarian lies. These lies weren’t what actually motivated the Revolution, but the revolutionaries worked with the fashionable ideas in circulation at the time.
The American Renaissance set is not wrong and has much historical evidence available to support their position, but unfortunately the opposite is true as well.
I have seen cases of both American white nationalists (calling the Baltic countries of Estonia and Latvia "homogeneous" because there are no non-whites there) and liberals (complaining that "the white kid" was carrying the Soviet banner in an USSR textbook praising inter-ethnic coexistence) doing this.
I find it disturbing because of Europeans current-day mental dependence means that Europe risks simply becoming an overseas extension of the USA, and even if America was not its present mess and was instead Karlin’s idealised 1950's America I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*
*As an example, Henry Ford, of The International Jew infamy, used to have "English Schools" at his factories where people would be encouraged to become Americans and at the "graduation" they would go into a building wearing traditional dress and come out of the building wearing American clothes.Replies: @David Davenport, @songbird
* I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*.
What are these dangerous assumptions of which you speak? Please elucidate.
-A moralistic culture always searching for another liberation crusade at home or abroad. America is not alone in having been enveloped in fanaticism, but the extreme focus on *freedom* and the fact that so many of the most important American conflicts (the Revolutionary War, the Northern victory in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Cold War) reinforce the idea of America the Invincible Liberator, makes it especially dangerous. Of course, there are defeats like Vietnam, but there are no soul-crushing downfalls to dissuade Americans.Replies: @LondonBob, @David Davenport
It's also convenient for everybody else to lay sole responsibility for everything that went wrong during the 1914-1945 era on Germany (the issue isn't limited to WW2, Germany's WW1 war guilt is still an article of faith for many). You can see this even with Italians who get to claim that they were always just brava gente, fundamentally decent folk (even when they dropped mustard gas on Ethiopians), unlike the uniquely evil Teutons (and who find a ready audience for that view, as demonstrated by AK's "Mussolini did nothing wrong" article). German evil is a great foil for one's own humanity or heroism.
And there is also zero prospect of revisionism ever gaining ground in Germany itself (which is clearly in a terminal phase as a nation and has devolved into complete infantilism). A few years ago, when I still watched television, I watched some stupid talk show. One of the guests was Serdar Somuncu, a Turkish-born "comedian" who has made a career of lecturing Germans about the Nazi past (something to which he has no personal connection, since his kind wasn't here back then). Somuncu suggested Germans shouldn't mourn for German WW2 dead at all, but only for the victims of Nazi crimes. No one objected, apparently everyone agreed. That kind of attitude is typical of today's Germany.Replies: @utu, @Epigon
What you describe is what was constructed long after the War and it got worse with the passage of time when the 2 dimensional Nazis cartoons for ‘reiner Tor’ were being constructed ad infinitum and the real ‘Nazis’ were lost. You totally underestimate or even are unaware of European artistic and religious elites who were setting a different tone after the war, the tone of reconciliation and of forgiveness which are essential part of our Western Civilization. People want reconciliation and they want to forgive but it becomes difficult when the fire of hate is being stoked. Who did supply he fuel for this fire? Who kept it going?
You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words “We forgive and ask for forgiveness”. You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie “Tonight a City Will Die” about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:
Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel “Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children’s Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death” centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish “burglar” outfit.
Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future ‘reined Tors” are now conditioned by Tarantino’s “Inglourious Basterds.” I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.
Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.
Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.
I don't know why you always have to be so extreme about those issues and resort to personal attacks, it makes nuanced discussion difficult.Replies: @utu
That particular novel is decadent. I won't be so tawdry to quote the disgusting, X-rated passage I recall, but "beautiful' it is not.
BTW, that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point, rather than WW2 by itself. At the time Vonnegut wrote his book, I'd say there was a lot of antiwar sentiment, in part because of Vietnam, but also because there were a lot of veterans, like him, still living. Obviously though, Holocaust, Inc. took a while to develop.Replies: @German_reader, @utu
But I'm convinced I'm right.
More on this later. Unfortunately this is true, but not unique to America. You can find many such Europeans. You've brought up your discussions with a "CDU cuck" who fancies himself an amateur secret policeman. The British promised freedom to slaves who were willing to fight with them against the American revolutionaries.
That said there was something strange here. And here is where my transatlantic background finally becomes useful.
America is flawed from the outset in that the American Revolution was based on a pack of egalitarian lies. These lies weren't what actually motivated the Revolution, but the revolutionaries worked with the fashionable ideas in circulation at the time.
The American Renaissance set is not wrong and has much historical evidence available to support their position, but unfortunately the opposite is true as well.Replies: @German_reader
Germans can be pretty insufferable (and reporting others to authorities is a German vice, both Gestapo and Stasi wouldn’t have worked otherwise), and like Americans they like to lecture other peoples. But today they don’t have military hard power (or the willingness to use it) for forcing their preferred ideology on others…America does. And frankly, when I read the things both American liberals and “conservatives” write at times, I’m not really happy about that. There’s a strong anti-European strain in American thought, and today it is very much linked to “antiracism” and multiculturalism. If European countries ever would move away from that model, there might well be conflict.
Things like that happened even in the ancient world, when military necessity dictated it, without calling the general system of slavery into question (and indeed it would still be 50 years until the British completely abolished slavery). And granting freedom isn’t the remarkable part for me (I’m not in favour of slavery anyway, I hope I haven’t given the impression I am)…the granting of equal political rights is, without even some interval (many of the ex-slaves must have been illiterate). That’s absurdly radical by any standard.
It is the exact same thing with the US. The government of today is the Homo (pun intended) to its ape ancestor at the end of the Civil War. Slaves were mostly given the vote to help disenfranchise Southern whites. Eventually, the South rallied and there was a movement towards sanity, and of taking away the vote from blacks, but by that time, the power dynamic had already been created, and it was arguably to late to stop it.
What was essentially different about the US, when comparing it to South Africa, was that blacks were a small enough group that many people could delude themselves into thinking it would not be that destructive to give them the vote.
You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words "We forgive and ask for forgiveness". You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie "Tonight a City Will Die" about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k
Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel "Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death" centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish "burglar" outfit.
Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future 'reined Tors" are now conditioned by Tarantino's "Inglourious Basterds." I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.
Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.
Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @reiner Tor
That’s a caricature, and deeply unfair to “reiner tor”.
I don’t know why you always have to be so extreme about those issues and resort to personal attacks, it makes nuanced discussion difficult.
I don't know why you always have to be so extreme about those issues and resort to personal attacks, it makes nuanced discussion difficult.Replies: @utu
I do not think you know what nuanced is. In your case its is an euphemism for “cuck.”
But sometimes it's hard not to get the impression that you won't be content with anything less than "everything is a Jewish plot" anyway.Replies: @utu
-Historical association of anti-Americanism with fringe far-right and far-left movements which are generally regarded as cranky, ineffectual failures
-America is not a remote, abstract entity; almost everybody likes at least some American stuff (especially young people), which can induce cognitive dissonance
-Although America is in some respects dysfunctional, it is still in many other aspects a highly functional and even aspirational society. If you cite American diversity as a weakness the opposition can easily point to e.g. Silicon Valley (since all countries would like to have something like Silicon Valley within their borders)
Also, while American racial categories have historically not had much applicability to the European context, I don't think this is the case anymore today: as long as you have relative freedom of movement between European states (which will be the case for the foreseeable future), combined with substantial MENA presence in those states, people are going to make distinctions between "white" (European) and "non-white," if only on a subconscious levelReplies: @utu
You are bringing up good objections but it all can be fixed. You hire Cambridge Analytica or a similar outfit and they will be able to come up with phrases that will navigate around the apparent contradictions and created a coherent message. I have outlined the general strategy that is the only one that can work. It is the job of tacticians and technicians to implement it.
If you had taken the trouble to read (and understand) my comment above about the remembrance of WW2, you might understand that this is pretty absurd.
But sometimes it’s hard not to get the impression that you won’t be content with anything less than “everything is a Jewish plot” anyway.
What are these dangerous assumptions of which you speak? Please elucidate.Replies: @Hyperborean
-All (white) people can become Americans, coupled with frequent uprooting due to work or education and a national mythology that celebrates newness and reinventing oneself.
-A moralistic culture always searching for another liberation crusade at home or abroad. America is not alone in having been enveloped in fanaticism, but the extreme focus on *freedom* and the fact that so many of the most important American conflicts (the Revolutionary War, the Northern victory in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Cold War) reinforce the idea of America the Invincible Liberator, makes it especially dangerous. Of course, there are defeats like Vietnam, but there are no soul-crushing downfalls to dissuade Americans.
The US is really far more left wing, and cultural Marxism much more embedded, than Europe. Academia, finance, business and mass media particularly so, and it is these that are influential internationally. A lot of people seem to have perception of America that is either out of date, or woefully out of date.
What is your objection to that premise? Please explain further.
-A moralistic culture always searching for another liberation crusade at home or abroad. America is not alone in having been enveloped in fanaticism, but the extreme focus on *freedom* and the fact that so many of the most important American conflicts (the Revolutionary War, the Northern victory in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Cold War) reinforce the idea of America the Invincible Liberator, makes it especially dangerous. Of course, there are defeats like Vietnam, but there are no soul-crushing downfalls to dissuade Americans.Replies: @LondonBob, @David Davenport
The South is the most militaristic, with their Scots Irish and English cavalier heritage, despite the crushing defeat they suffered in the Civil War, as Shelby Foote pointed out it was strange that Patton should say America never lost a war as his own grandfather was in the Army of Northern Virginia (the US also basically lost the War of 1812). Truth is America has more of a tradition of pacifism and isolationism, with the US Army of minimal relevance for most of US history. Current hyper militarism is really a Cold War relic given new life by neocon zionist concerns.
The US is really far more left wing, and cultural Marxism much more embedded, than Europe. Academia, finance, business and mass media particularly so, and it is these that are influential internationally. A lot of people seem to have perception of America that is either out of date, or woefully out of date.
But sometimes it's hard not to get the impression that you won't be content with anything less than "everything is a Jewish plot" anyway.Replies: @utu
You will come around to my point of view eventually. With or without the Jewish long term perseverance and plodding which some like to call it a plot.
You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words "We forgive and ask for forgiveness". You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie "Tonight a City Will Die" about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k
Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel "Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death" centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish "burglar" outfit.
Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future 'reined Tors" are now conditioned by Tarantino's "Inglourious Basterds." I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.
Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.
Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @reiner Tor
Honestly, I think Vonnegut is generally a terrible writer. I will give him credit for depicting the bombing critically, and one or two other things in his other writings. They say you can tell if someone is a misanthrope by whether or not they can create likable characters – Vonnegut cannot. (Though that could possibly relate to skill.)
That particular novel is decadent. I won’t be so tawdry to quote the disgusting, X-rated passage I recall, but “beautiful’ it is not.
BTW, that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point, rather than WW2 by itself. At the time Vonnegut wrote his book, I’d say there was a lot of antiwar sentiment, in part because of Vietnam, but also because there were a lot of veterans, like him, still living. Obviously though, Holocaust, Inc. took a while to develop.
I'm not sure about Holocaust remembrance though, my impression has always been that it really escalated to its present, cult-like form only in the 1990s (in tandem with multiculturalism becoming the dominant ideology in many Western countries). But maybe I'm too young to accurately assess this.Replies: @songbird
That particular novel is decadent. I won't be so tawdry to quote the disgusting, X-rated passage I recall, but "beautiful' it is not.
BTW, that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point, rather than WW2 by itself. At the time Vonnegut wrote his book, I'd say there was a lot of antiwar sentiment, in part because of Vietnam, but also because there were a lot of veterans, like him, still living. Obviously though, Holocaust, Inc. took a while to develop.Replies: @German_reader, @utu
It’s not an original point by Utu, it’s widely accepted that Jewish nationalism increased dramatically among American Jews because of the six-day-war (which may even in part have a religious basis, with the conquest of the religious sites in East Jerusalem). Of course there were also more general factors favoring this, with the loss of power of the traditional WASP establishment whose norms were no longer seen as the standard one had to assimilate to.
I’m not sure about Holocaust remembrance though, my impression has always been that it really escalated to its present, cult-like form only in the 1990s (in tandem with multiculturalism becoming the dominant ideology in many Western countries). But maybe I’m too young to accurately assess this.
It would be interesting to compare it to the Armenian genocide and others. I bet they would all look like abortive Holocaust trendlines, since those groups don't have the same influence necessary to construct their own Holocaust, Inc. But maybe, the Holocaust trendline would have some predictive value going forward. Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don't think it can go on forever.
Some of those memorials most likely will come down, like Saddam 's statue or statues of Lenin. It doesn't help that they are overwhelmingly ugly.Replies: @German_reader, @for-the-record
That particular novel is decadent. I won't be so tawdry to quote the disgusting, X-rated passage I recall, but "beautiful' it is not.
BTW, that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point, rather than WW2 by itself. At the time Vonnegut wrote his book, I'd say there was a lot of antiwar sentiment, in part because of Vietnam, but also because there were a lot of veterans, like him, still living. Obviously though, Holocaust, Inc. took a while to develop.Replies: @German_reader, @utu
I agree that Vonnegut was an uneven writer. But the Slaughterhouse-Five is probably his best and it is the best anti-war novel of WWII. I read it several times and every time I read it I found it better and deeper. All negative opinions about him I personally heard came from Jews and at that time I did not connect the dots until much later when I became a Judeorealist.
The German government today is essentially an occupation government, constructed by occupying powers. When I say that, of course, I’m being little provocative, but there is nevertheless a large grain of truth in it. The current government evolved directly from the occupation government, and this influenced German politics and culture.
It is the exact same thing with the US. The government of today is the Homo (pun intended) to its ape ancestor at the end of the Civil War. Slaves were mostly given the vote to help disenfranchise Southern whites. Eventually, the South rallied and there was a movement towards sanity, and of taking away the vote from blacks, but by that time, the power dynamic had already been created, and it was arguably to late to stop it.
What was essentially different about the US, when comparing it to South Africa, was that blacks were a small enough group that many people could delude themselves into thinking it would not be that destructive to give them the vote.
-A moralistic culture always searching for another liberation crusade at home or abroad. America is not alone in having been enveloped in fanaticism, but the extreme focus on *freedom* and the fact that so many of the most important American conflicts (the Revolutionary War, the Northern victory in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Cold War) reinforce the idea of America the Invincible Liberator, makes it especially dangerous. Of course, there are defeats like Vietnam, but there are no soul-crushing downfalls to dissuade Americans.Replies: @LondonBob, @David Davenport
-All (white) people can become Americans, coupled with frequent uprooting due to work or education and a national mythology that celebrates newness and reinventing oneself.
What is your objection to that premise? Please explain further.
I'm not sure about Holocaust remembrance though, my impression has always been that it really escalated to its present, cult-like form only in the 1990s (in tandem with multiculturalism becoming the dominant ideology in many Western countries). But maybe I'm too young to accurately assess this.Replies: @songbird
I really wish someone would do an historical study about the spread of Holocaust memorials, and the evolution and frequency of Holocaust language in print and fiction. As well as study the flow of money involved. The way I view it, the memorials would be a proxy for the political narrative, and the trendlines would have a similar shape.
It would be interesting to compare it to the Armenian genocide and others. I bet they would all look like abortive Holocaust trendlines, since those groups don’t have the same influence necessary to construct their own Holocaust, Inc. But maybe, the Holocaust trendline would have some predictive value going forward. Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don’t think it can go on forever.
Some of those memorials most likely will come down, like Saddam ‘s statue or statues of Lenin. It doesn’t help that they are overwhelmingly ugly.
Until then however one should probably expect a lot of young Muslim women and other immigrants trying to appropriate the Holocaust cult for their own purposes.Replies: @utu
Here's a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the "popularity" of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The "results" suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu's thesis.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @songbird
It would be interesting to compare it to the Armenian genocide and others. I bet they would all look like abortive Holocaust trendlines, since those groups don't have the same influence necessary to construct their own Holocaust, Inc. But maybe, the Holocaust trendline would have some predictive value going forward. Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don't think it can go on forever.
Some of those memorials most likely will come down, like Saddam 's statue or statues of Lenin. It doesn't help that they are overwhelmingly ugly.Replies: @German_reader, @for-the-record
It may have already reached its peak. Living links to the era are becoming increasingly tenuous, WW2 must feel very long ago to someone who’s 20 today. There’s also the issue that Holocaust remembrance has served as a sort of foundation myth for multiculturalism. Since multiculturalism and mass immigration are likely to lead many Western societies into the abyss, Holocaust remembrance might eventually be discredited as well.
Until then however one should probably expect a lot of young Muslim women and other immigrants trying to appropriate the Holocaust cult for their own purposes.
After 522 Years, Spain Seeks To Make Amends For Expulsion Of Jews
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/25/371866778/after-522-years-spain-seeks-to-make-amends-for-expulsion-of-jewsReplies: @utu, @DFH
Until then however one should probably expect a lot of young Muslim women and other immigrants trying to appropriate the Holocaust cult for their own purposes.Replies: @utu
Quite the opposite. The haggadah of Holocaust will continue being constructed and reinforced. Less eyewitnesses the better for the story.
After 522 Years, Spain Seeks To Make Amends For Expulsion Of Jews
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/25/371866778/after-522-years-spain-seeks-to-make-amends-for-expulsion-of-jews
https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2015/02/02/portugal-offers-restitution-to-descendants-of-jews-persecuted-during-inquisition/
Portugal is seeking to make restitution for its treatment of Jews during the Inquisition by offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were either killed or driven out of the country 500 years ago, Examiner.com said.Replies: @Epigon
Murdering Christ would be a good place to start.Replies: @utu, @for-the-record
I have seen cases of both American white nationalists (calling the Baltic countries of Estonia and Latvia "homogeneous" because there are no non-whites there) and liberals (complaining that "the white kid" was carrying the Soviet banner in an USSR textbook praising inter-ethnic coexistence) doing this.
I find it disturbing because of Europeans current-day mental dependence means that Europe risks simply becoming an overseas extension of the USA, and even if America was not its present mess and was instead Karlin’s idealised 1950's America I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*
*As an example, Henry Ford, of The International Jew infamy, used to have "English Schools" at his factories where people would be encouraged to become Americans and at the "graduation" they would go into a building wearing traditional dress and come out of the building wearing American clothes.Replies: @David Davenport, @songbird
Ford seems to have been surprisingly naive about blacks. At least, I have never heard of him being critical of them and I bet a lot of people were motivated to search, since his attitude towards blacks is presented as a defense of his character, which has been damaged and defamed to the point where he is thought of as being a Nazi. (Curious similarly to Walt Disney.)
Perhaps, the first blacks who moved to Detroit were the smarter and more capable ones, but still it would have been impossible not to make observations. Blacks in the North were problematic, even when they were a small population, judging by historical newspapers – which often presented their criminal cases as entertainment pieces.
Maybe, it was in part because he was born a hick, but Ford could be heavily implicated in the destruction of Detroit. Sort of interesting because he saw cities as rotting dens of corruption and predicted that industry would move into rural areas.
Another interesting idea he had was that planes would revolutionize the labor market and teams of men would be flown where they were needed, crisscrossing the country. If he had only known that the planes would be used to bring in hordes of unemployable hostile men who were looking to settle in the West and that many Jews would be cheerleading the process.
After 522 Years, Spain Seeks To Make Amends For Expulsion Of Jews
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/25/371866778/after-522-years-spain-seeks-to-make-amends-for-expulsion-of-jewsReplies: @utu, @DFH
Portugal Offers Restitution To Descendants Of Jews Persecuted During Inquisition
https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2015/02/02/portugal-offers-restitution-to-descendants-of-jews-persecuted-during-inquisition/
Portugal is seeking to make restitution for its treatment of Jews during the Inquisition by offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were either killed or driven out of the country 500 years ago, Examiner.com said.
It's also convenient for everybody else to lay sole responsibility for everything that went wrong during the 1914-1945 era on Germany (the issue isn't limited to WW2, Germany's WW1 war guilt is still an article of faith for many). You can see this even with Italians who get to claim that they were always just brava gente, fundamentally decent folk (even when they dropped mustard gas on Ethiopians), unlike the uniquely evil Teutons (and who find a ready audience for that view, as demonstrated by AK's "Mussolini did nothing wrong" article). German evil is a great foil for one's own humanity or heroism.
And there is also zero prospect of revisionism ever gaining ground in Germany itself (which is clearly in a terminal phase as a nation and has devolved into complete infantilism). A few years ago, when I still watched television, I watched some stupid talk show. One of the guests was Serdar Somuncu, a Turkish-born "comedian" who has made a career of lecturing Germans about the Nazi past (something to which he has no personal connection, since his kind wasn't here back then). Somuncu suggested Germans shouldn't mourn for German WW2 dead at all, but only for the victims of Nazi crimes. No one objected, apparently everyone agreed. That kind of attitude is typical of today's Germany.Replies: @utu, @Epigon
Greeks are a joke of a nation. An Orthodox Christian puppet of Anglican English, and later on, atlanticist Americans. Since WW2, every single Greek government was an Atlanticist puppet.
Greek Orthodox Church is a tool, and divided inside – their nominal hierarchs are despised by monks and priests.
They have football Ultras that are unironically far left.
They go for a riot, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalism and all that jazz, and then elect a complete American stooge and Soros plant – “leftist” Tsipras, and that obnoxious ‘tard Varoufakis, who immediately do exactly what people were protesting against – and no problem! Well, of course, because that whole affair was American orchestrated to weaken EU, Germany and German banks, not expression of Greek sovereignity and popular will. Macedonia issue springs up – people protest, 70% of public against – government decides in favour of it – no problem. In Macedonia, referendum fails – again, atlanticists couldn’t care less.
All three told the Greeks that they were unwilling to go against the wishes of Berlin in what they perceived to be Germany's sphere of influence. The Chinese went so far as to suspend planned investments into Greece at Berlin's request.
The American Treasury Secretary repeatedly pleaded with the Germans to stop ruining the Eurozone to no avail.
Tsipras is an idiot but there was no American plot to weaken the Euro.Replies: @LondonBob, @Epigon
https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2015/02/02/portugal-offers-restitution-to-descendants-of-jews-persecuted-during-inquisition/
Portugal is seeking to make restitution for its treatment of Jews during the Inquisition by offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were either killed or driven out of the country 500 years ago, Examiner.com said.Replies: @Epigon
Why would anyone who could track his lineage 500 yours ago want to have a Portuguese citizenship? Possibly worst reparations ever.
And Germany is in no way as helpless and subservient to USA as some make it out to be.
UČK/KLA was still a terrorist organisation in the USA (official list) when BND was already sending operatives and advisors, weapons, effecting an uprising.
More importantly, BND was smuggling weapons to Croatia and Slovenia in 1990, and the Kohl/Genscher efforts and lobbying for Yugoslav separatists and their recognition, pressure upon French (buckled last) was independent foreign policy – more precisely – against Atlanticist wishes. In the process, they violated UN charter, Helsinki accords and all manner of international agreements and principles – which would in time serve as a rallying point for anti-West sentiment throughout the world – a generation of Russian and Chinese future power brokers was raised during the 1990s when the Western abuse was the worst.
After 522 Years, Spain Seeks To Make Amends For Expulsion Of Jews
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/25/371866778/after-522-years-spain-seeks-to-make-amends-for-expulsion-of-jewsReplies: @utu, @DFH
Have Jews apologised for anything ever?
Murdering Christ would be a good place to start.
To Whom Should the Jews Apologize? by Jerzy Robert Nowak
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44023607-to-whom-should-the-jews-apologizeReplies: @DFH
For the "mistake" of sinking the USS Liberty.
Gives access to the EU, allows free travel and residence in much of Europe.
https://www.jta.org/2018/11/23/global/portugal-spain-gave-10000-passports-sephardic-new-citizens-since-2015
Passports have man uses for Israel:
2004 Israel–New Zealand passport scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel–New_Zealand_passport_scandal
Portugal and Spain have given 10,000 passports to people claiming Sephardic roots
https://www.jta.org/2018/11/23/global/portugal-spain-gave-10000-passports-sephardic-new-citizens-since-2015
Passports have man uses for Israel:
2004 Israel–New Zealand passport scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel–New_Zealand_passport_scandal
Murdering Christ would be a good place to start.Replies: @utu, @for-the-record
Google does not give any hits. But I found this:
To Whom Should the Jews Apologize? by Jerzy Robert Nowak
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44023607-to-whom-should-the-jews-apologize
He wrote an article called ' Za co Żydzi muszą przeprosić Polaków' or 'Why Jews must apologise to Poles'.
His other books include 'What Poland has given the world' and one whose description reads 'The cultural Marxist war against the Catholic Church in Poland' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Robert_Nowak
The Polish version of the article is even better. He wrote a book exposing the lies of a Jewish historian about Jedwabane and the town granted him honorary citizenship. He also criticised Jewish writer Gyorgy Spiro for anti-Polonism, resulting in Spiro being prevented from presenting his book or doing research in Poland.
Unironically based and redpilled.Replies: @utu
Greek Orthodox Church is a tool, and divided inside - their nominal hierarchs are despised by monks and priests.
They have football Ultras that are unironically far left.They go for a riot, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalism and all that jazz, and then elect a complete American stooge and Soros plant - “leftist” Tsipras, and that obnoxious ‘tard Varoufakis, who immediately do exactly what people were protesting against - and no problem! Well, of course, because that whole affair was American orchestrated to weaken EU, Germany and German banks, not expression of Greek sovereignity and popular will. Macedonia issue springs up - people protest, 70% of public against - government decides in favour of it - no problem. In Macedonia, referendum fails - again, atlanticists couldn’t care less.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
The Greek government approached Washington, Beijing, and Moscow for assistance.
All three told the Greeks that they were unwilling to go against the wishes of Berlin in what they perceived to be Germany’s sphere of influence. The Chinese went so far as to suspend planned investments into Greece at Berlin’s request.
The American Treasury Secretary repeatedly pleaded with the Germans to stop ruining the Eurozone to no avail.
Tsipras is an idiot but there was no American plot to weaken the Euro.
Greece has been instrumental in EU and NATO integration of Bulgaria and Romania, as well.Russian unwillingness to aid Greece has been vindicated by Greeks jumping on board of Skripal poisoning nonsense, as well as "Russian meddling" meme by expelling 4 Russian diplomats and publicly calling out Russians for "bribing Atos monks (!)", or by Greece extraditing Russians to Ukraine.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Greek Orthodox Church is a tool, and divided inside - their nominal hierarchs are despised by monks and priests.
They have football Ultras that are unironically far left.They go for a riot, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalism and all that jazz, and then elect a complete American stooge and Soros plant - “leftist” Tsipras, and that obnoxious ‘tard Varoufakis, who immediately do exactly what people were protesting against - and no problem! Well, of course, because that whole affair was American orchestrated to weaken EU, Germany and German banks, not expression of Greek sovereignity and popular will. Macedonia issue springs up - people protest, 70% of public against - government decides in favour of it - no problem. In Macedonia, referendum fails - again, atlanticists couldn’t care less.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @utu
And what is your opinion on Greek sheep guard dogs? How do they compare to sheep guard dogs in other Balkan countries?
To Whom Should the Jews Apologize? by Jerzy Robert Nowak
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44023607-to-whom-should-the-jews-apologizeReplies: @DFH
Lol, he is not even Jewish, just a very audacious Catholic pole
He wrote an article called ‘ Za co Żydzi muszą przeprosić Polaków’ or ‘Why Jews must apologise to Poles’.
His other books include ‘What Poland has given the world’ and one whose description reads ‘The cultural Marxist war against the Catholic Church in Poland’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Robert_Nowak
The Polish version of the article is even better. He wrote a book exposing the lies of a Jewish historian about Jedwabane and the town granted him honorary citizenship. He also criticised Jewish writer Gyorgy Spiro for anti-Polonism, resulting in Spiro being prevented from presenting his book or doing research in Poland.
Unironically based and redpilled.
http://www.poloniainstitute.net/history-of-poland/jedwabne-anatomy-of-deception/
Why Jews are afraid of the truth? Historical truth by Ph.D. Ewa Kurek! (Very powerful)
https://gloria.tv/video/pVw8f8RHTbBF4P8gBPQEjv9iSReplies: @German_reader
Slovakia election:
ČAPUTOVÁ JE PRODUKT IZRAELČANA
https://www.extraplus.sk/clanok/caputova-je-produkt-izraelcana
http://strategyandcampaigns.com/team/
All three told the Greeks that they were unwilling to go against the wishes of Berlin in what they perceived to be Germany's sphere of influence. The Chinese went so far as to suspend planned investments into Greece at Berlin's request.
The American Treasury Secretary repeatedly pleaded with the Germans to stop ruining the Eurozone to no avail.
Tsipras is an idiot but there was no American plot to weaken the Euro.Replies: @LondonBob, @Epigon
Hilary’s son in law Mevzinsky started a hedge fund whose purpose was to invest in Greek stocks and debt, implying that the Clinton people thought Greece would be rescued.
He wrote an article called ' Za co Żydzi muszą przeprosić Polaków' or 'Why Jews must apologise to Poles'.
His other books include 'What Poland has given the world' and one whose description reads 'The cultural Marxist war against the Catholic Church in Poland' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Robert_Nowak
The Polish version of the article is even better. He wrote a book exposing the lies of a Jewish historian about Jedwabane and the town granted him honorary citizenship. He also criticised Jewish writer Gyorgy Spiro for anti-Polonism, resulting in Spiro being prevented from presenting his book or doing research in Poland.
Unironically based and redpilled.Replies: @utu
Dr. Ewa Kurek: JEDWABNE – ANATOMY OF DECEPTION
http://www.poloniainstitute.net/history-of-poland/jedwabne-anatomy-of-deception/
Why Jews are afraid of the truth? Historical truth by Ph.D. Ewa Kurek! (Very powerful)
https://gloria.tv/video/pVw8f8RHTbBF4P8gBPQEjv9iS
Of course she has to bring up this which is just the usual Polish paranoia that is getting very tiresome. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It's something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.Replies: @utu, @Matra
http://www.poloniainstitute.net/history-of-poland/jedwabne-anatomy-of-deception/
Why Jews are afraid of the truth? Historical truth by Ph.D. Ewa Kurek! (Very powerful)
https://gloria.tv/video/pVw8f8RHTbBF4P8gBPQEjv9iSReplies: @German_reader
Sounds like hysterical trash tbh.
Of course she has to bring up this
which is just the usual Polish paranoia that is getting very tiresome. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It’s something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.
There is almost certainly an organised campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators, however it is obviously not Germans who are leading it. This campaign is modelled on a similar campaign that began in the late 80s and early 90s against Switzerland that eventually led to that country being subjected to a very well organised and, sadly, successful shakedown from the highest levels of the US government. Angelo Codevilla wrote about this in his excellent book Between the Alps and a Hard Place as did Norman Finkelstein in The Holocaust Industry. I think the Poles are currently being tested for weakness. Polish provincialism - so typical of conservative people - combined with their sycophantic relationship with the US (and Israel) probably makes them look like an easy mark for a Swiss-style shakedown.
All three told the Greeks that they were unwilling to go against the wishes of Berlin in what they perceived to be Germany's sphere of influence. The Chinese went so far as to suspend planned investments into Greece at Berlin's request.
The American Treasury Secretary repeatedly pleaded with the Germans to stop ruining the Eurozone to no avail.
Tsipras is an idiot but there was no American plot to weaken the Euro.Replies: @LondonBob, @Epigon
Why would Moscow or Beijing help Greece? You would have Russia sink money into a NATO, EU nation which elects American stooge after American stooge, and ends up with litteral Soros “left” of Syriza?
In case you aren’t aware, a direct quote from Andrey Klimov – “Greece has never been our partner or ally in Europe. Greece is part of NATO, and that alone is enough”. This is an important historical claim, and a very important one taking the events of 1878 and 1913 into account.
Greece has been instrumental in EU and NATO integration of Bulgaria and Romania, as well.
Russian unwillingness to aid Greece has been vindicated by Greeks jumping on board of Skripal poisoning nonsense, as well as “Russian meddling” meme by expelling 4 Russian diplomats and publicly calling out Russians for “bribing Atos monks (!)”, or by Greece extraditing Russians to Ukraine.
As for Moscow, I can't find a reason why Moscow should assist Greece financially. I suppose there's always South Stream, and who knows what Tsipras was pitching. In any case Putin told him that he had to go through Berlin.
Moscow also pours money into black holes on occasion. Rosneft has poured billions into Venezuela it will never see again.
Anyhow the original point here is that the Germans are the ones who wrecked the Eurozone, not Washington.Replies: @Mitleser
Šarplaninac and Serbian Defense Dog > lesser breeds
Of course she has to bring up this which is just the usual Polish paranoia that is getting very tiresome. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It's something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.Replies: @utu, @Matra
Actually you are right. All Jews were murdered only by your immediate family who were 100% German to the n-th generation and nobody else was involved and if anybody thinks or says otherwise you will take them to court for dishonoring the honor of your murderous family. Germans are the most honorable murderers who would never shift the blame on anybody else.
There just isn't a German campaign to shift Holocaust responsibility on Poles. It's a made-up claim by Polish right-wingers so can live out their anti-German obsessions and feel all righteous about it. If you asked them for evidence, they'd bring up a few sloppy newspaper articles referring to "Polish camps", and not much else.Replies: @AP, @utu
That’s what this Kurek woman whom you just lauded enthusiastically would say, so I don’t see your point.
There just isn’t a German campaign to shift Holocaust responsibility on Poles. It’s a made-up claim by Polish right-wingers so can live out their anti-German obsessions and feel all righteous about it. If you asked them for evidence, they’d bring up a few sloppy newspaper articles referring to “Polish camps”, and not much else.
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:
https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495
Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.
If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.
But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Matra
Poland Wants Correction After NBC’s Andrea Mitchell Says Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Against ‘Polish and Nazi Regime’
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/poland-wants-correction-of-journalists-polish-and-nazi-regime-statement-1.6938221
The Concentration camps can't be officially called German camps while commonly they are referred to as Polish camps. Poles were upset by some parts of the miniseries "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" whee Polish partisans were shown only as antisemites. BTW, in Polish unsere=nasi so Poles twisted the title to Nazi Mothers and Nazi Fathers.
Anyway you have tendency to concentrate on unimportant minutiae (Ewa Kurek talked about more important issues than what you picked.) because you do not want to face bigger issues. Keep in mind that Poland is fighting for its life right now with respect to Jewish financial claims and people are confused because their government is not straight with them. For instance somebody in the government came up with a 'brilliant' idea of demanding reparations from Germany. It is a very cynical move to awaken in an average Poles greed and a Jewish spirit of vindictiveness so they would become more understanding and sympathetic to Jewish claims. But the claim against Germany is just a bluff and nobody sane believes that they are made in a good faith but I am sure they are upsetting to Germans. It is just a posturing of the pathetic Polish government to manipulate their confused subjects on behalf of Jews. Imho Poland's only chance is to be on a very good terms with Germany and they are blowing it.
Many years ago when the communism was collapsing and finally people could talk about history I was learning some alternative narratives of WWII that were more congruent with my family histories (that included Auschwitz, Moabit, other KL's in Germany and even with Gulag) I had a dream that there was window of opportunity that Poland together with Germany could rectify some of its history (after all there were archives in Poland no longer in control by communist and many witnesses still alive), thet history that was distorted in early years after WWII however quickly I found out that most Poles and most Germans are idiots and cucks like yourself and they do not want any rectification. German cucks like yourself want tow wallow in guilt forever and and do not want to share blame with anybody and most Poles want to play the innocent victims like Jews and the Jews want to be above it all and keep laughing all the way to the bank. I had a silly hope that Poles could help to absolve Germans from some of their guilt but apparently I must be an idiot as well.Replies: @German_reader
There just isn't a German campaign to shift Holocaust responsibility on Poles. It's a made-up claim by Polish right-wingers so can live out their anti-German obsessions and feel all righteous about it. If you asked them for evidence, they'd bring up a few sloppy newspaper articles referring to "Polish camps", and not much else.Replies: @AP, @utu
Ukrainians say the same about Germans. Amnestied their own Nazis but then prosecuted the Red Army veteran John Demjanjuk whom they essentially forced into service. The public prosecution of this man was seen as shifting the blame – see, everyone was involved, not just us.
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:
https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495
Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.
If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.
But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte#Die_Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte_vom_26._Juni_1969Of course even many high-ranking German Nazi perpetrators were never really punished, but there were investigations and trials of German perpetrators, even recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning#Criminal_charges_and_trialI think the Demjanjuk case was a travesty and it was problematic that German prosecutors charged him. But on the other hand, Ukrainians shouldn't complain too much. Ukrainian collaborators did go on an enthusiastic Jew-hunt in Lviv in 1941 after all, and unlike Demjanjuk they weren't under any compulsion to do so.Replies: @reiner Tor
BTW, Germans have been so thoroughly endoctrinated, I wouldn't be surprised if the cuckiest 10% would commit suicide, if asked by an African. (3% would probably kill their fellows, then commit suicide, like at Jonestown.)
Your snarky remark aside Buchanan was backing Demjanjuk way back in the 1980s and was clear at the time that the Soviets were framing him. He did this at some cost to himself as he was regularly smeared in US media for doing so. PB was also one of the few western pundits at the time to regularly mentioned the "captured nations" of the USSR. But I guess that's not enough for some Eastern European nationalists with their passionate attachments to foreign states.Replies: @AP
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:
https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495
Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.
If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.
But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Matra
Incorrect, exactly the opposite of what happened. In fact the statute of limitations for murder (which had previously been 20 years) was removed after intense debate, exactly because of the need to prosecute Nazi perpetrators:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte#Die_Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte_vom_26._Juni_1969
Of course even many high-ranking German Nazi perpetrators were never really punished, but there were investigations and trials of German perpetrators, even recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning#Criminal_charges_and_trial
I think the Demjanjuk case was a travesty and it was problematic that German prosecutors charged him. But on the other hand, Ukrainians shouldn’t complain too much. Ukrainian collaborators did go on an enthusiastic Jew-hunt in Lviv in 1941 after all, and unlike Demjanjuk they weren’t under any compulsion to do so.
Greece has been instrumental in EU and NATO integration of Bulgaria and Romania, as well.Russian unwillingness to aid Greece has been vindicated by Greeks jumping on board of Skripal poisoning nonsense, as well as "Russian meddling" meme by expelling 4 Russian diplomats and publicly calling out Russians for "bribing Atos monks (!)", or by Greece extraditing Russians to Ukraine.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Beijing was interested in Greek port facilities and related infrastructure. This has since been revived–the Piraeus port authority is now owned by COSCO.
As for Moscow, I can’t find a reason why Moscow should assist Greece financially. I suppose there’s always South Stream, and who knows what Tsipras was pitching. In any case Putin told him that he had to go through Berlin.
Moscow also pours money into black holes on occasion. Rosneft has poured billions into Venezuela it will never see again.
Anyhow the original point here is that the Germans are the ones who wrecked the Eurozone, not Washington.
https://twitter.com/nstamouli/status/1113564690251165702
All those trials are gay and fake.
If you didn’t sentence people like Quandt, Reimann, Krupp, Thyssen (joke sentences, ownership returned), the obnoxious Speer and others who organised, encouraged and/or profitted extremely from forced and slave labour, war economy (BASF, Bayer and other IGF successors), going after non-ethnic German auxiliaries is a travesty.
But I agree that these trials against nonagenarians (regardless of ethnicity - many were/are Germans) were travesties. These people were nobodies back then anyway, and no specific crime can be pinned on them.
If you didn't sentence people like Quandt, Reimann, Krupp, Thyssen (joke sentences, ownership returned), the obnoxious Speer and others who organised, encouraged and/or profitted extremely from forced and slave labour, war economy (BASF, Bayer and other IGF successors), going after non-ethnic German auxiliaries is a travesty.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor
You may have a point in general, but Speer spent 20 years in prison.
If you didn't sentence people like Quandt, Reimann, Krupp, Thyssen (joke sentences, ownership returned), the obnoxious Speer and others who organised, encouraged and/or profitted extremely from forced and slave labour, war economy (BASF, Bayer and other IGF successors), going after non-ethnic German auxiliaries is a travesty.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor
On the other hand, Speer was tried and received a light sentence from the Allies. I don’t think we can point fingers at Germans for not punishing him enough.
But I agree that these trials against nonagenarians (regardless of ethnicity – many were/are Germans) were travesties. These people were nobodies back then anyway, and no specific crime can be pinned on them.
Interestingly at least one of his subordinates was sentenced to death by the very same court in the same trial for carrying out his orders.
Claiming to be a genius behind production increase and significant cost decrease (labour cost ~ 0) might have something to do with those unfortunate numbers of POW and forced laborer wartime deaths.
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:
https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495
Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.
If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.
But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Matra
I like Buchanan, but the idea that political establishment of Germany is seeking expiation for its sins seems crazy. Antinazism is in their blood. It was planted during the occupation, put through the harshest tests of evolutionary selection (politics) and found to be a useful tool to attain power.
BTW, Germans have been so thoroughly endoctrinated, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cuckiest 10% would commit suicide, if asked by an African. (3% would probably kill their fellows, then commit suicide, like at Jonestown.)
I don’t think my comment could be read as denying Speer’s guilt. I merely stated that in his case at least you’re wrong that there was no prosecution at all.
It was NATO Cold War policy of 1950s, propping up West Germany and integrating Reich industrialists and officers.
Like I have previously stated, Germany has numerous people and companies to prosecute before having to resort to Ukrainian conscripts, if indeed it is after justice and atonement.Going after 90 year olds while having descendants of Nazi slave labour industrialists and war profiteers worth tens of billions of euros is distasteful - as simple as that.Replies: @German_reader
But I'm convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They'd see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln's war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims. If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line "Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago" (and of course leftie critics of "AmeriKKKa" agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @for-the-record, @DFH
If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war
Well, to a certain extent they weren’t, at least in the South. And when the US was fighting Nazi “racism”, blacks couldn’t eat in “white” restaurants in Washington, DC. On a national level, the US Armed Forces were of course also segregated (until 1948).
Others were trialled as well, but walked away with no/light sentences (Krupp), and even had ownership and properties restored to them.
It was NATO Cold War policy of 1950s, propping up West Germany and integrating Reich industrialists and officers.
Like I have previously stated, Germany has numerous people and companies to prosecute before having to resort to Ukrainian conscripts, if indeed it is after justice and atonement.
Going after 90 year olds while having descendants of Nazi slave labour industrialists and war profiteers worth tens of billions of euros is distasteful – as simple as that.
And frankly, one can overdo it with sympathy for John Demjanjuk. It's true that he was in an extremely difficult situation as a pow (though as far as I know, Ukrainians were in some ways often favored compared to Russians), but still, in all probability he was a guard at an extermination camp. That's a rather extreme form of collaboration.
I'm also unaware that there were many other trials of such low-ranking non-German collaborators before German courts, so this discussion seems rather pointless to me.
Since, Speer has been brought up, I must ask: is the allegation (made by Speer?) that Hitler had some sort of crush on him believable? I doubt it myself. Though I believe Mussolini called Hitler a pervert. There’s obviously been an attempt to emasculate him, ever since he came to power.
But I'm convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They'd see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln's war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims. If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line "Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago" (and of course leftie critics of "AmeriKKKa" agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @for-the-record, @DFH
In the 1920s the citizenship of thousands of (Asian) Indians was retroactively revoked because the supreme court determined that they weren’t white.
Wasn’t it Carter who began arming the Afghan Mujahideen, though? Also, Bush Sr. was the one who gave the Chicken Kiev speech.
It seems terrible to equate the social safety net with the Soviet Union, though. I mean, look at Lyndon Johnson–he fought the Commies in Vietnam while at the same time created a more secure social safety net at home with Medicare, Medicaid, and the War on Poverty.
Don’t younger Cubans largely vote Democratic nowadays, though?
It was NATO Cold War policy of 1950s, propping up West Germany and integrating Reich industrialists and officers.
Like I have previously stated, Germany has numerous people and companies to prosecute before having to resort to Ukrainian conscripts, if indeed it is after justice and atonement.Going after 90 year olds while having descendants of Nazi slave labour industrialists and war profiteers worth tens of billions of euros is distasteful - as simple as that.Replies: @German_reader
The people involved are all dead by now.
And frankly, one can overdo it with sympathy for John Demjanjuk. It’s true that he was in an extremely difficult situation as a pow (though as far as I know, Ukrainians were in some ways often favored compared to Russians), but still, in all probability he was a guard at an extermination camp. That’s a rather extreme form of collaboration.
I’m also unaware that there were many other trials of such low-ranking non-German collaborators before German courts, so this discussion seems rather pointless to me.
It would be interesting to compare it to the Armenian genocide and others. I bet they would all look like abortive Holocaust trendlines, since those groups don't have the same influence necessary to construct their own Holocaust, Inc. But maybe, the Holocaust trendline would have some predictive value going forward. Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don't think it can go on forever.
Some of those memorials most likely will come down, like Saddam 's statue or statues of Lenin. It doesn't help that they are overwhelmingly ugly.Replies: @German_reader, @for-the-record
I really wish someone would do an historical study about . . . the evolution and frequency of Holocaust language in print and fiction.
Here’s a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the “popularity” of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The “results” suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu’s thesis.
That doesn't mean though the destruction of the Jews during WW2 wasn't discussed before, one probably would have to look for many other terms like "Final solution" as well.
My local one in Boston was built in 1995. I was very disturbed the first time I took note of it, and the nearby black heritage trail. It is definitely an attempt to grab the minds of schoolkids and tourists, and rewrite the narrative of the city into one of victimhood, when it was traditionally about freedom. It is all in imitation of the Freedom Trail, but for victimhood. A general reflection of politics. Indeed, the pols and clergy are generally there when the monuments are dedicated.Replies: @LondonBob
I did a rough count of the ones in the US: 50. Many states aren't listed, many have multiples.
I suspect others are beginning to hijack the narrative. Quite amusing: they put up a monument to homosexuals in Berlin in 2008. Lesbians apparently complained, and wanted kissing lesbians on the monument, but there wasn't much evidence for lesbians being persecuted. So, a compromise was reached. They would change the video of kissing homos to kissing lesbos every two years. A Holocaust survivor complained about the nearness of the monument to a Holocaust memorial, saying it did not give a sense of proportionality.
Here's a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the "popularity" of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The "results" suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu's thesis.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @songbird
Holocaust as a term was popularized by the 1979 television series of the same name iirc.
That doesn’t mean though the destruction of the Jews during WW2 wasn’t discussed before, one probably would have to look for many other terms like “Final solution” as well.
Murdering Christ would be a good place to start.Replies: @utu, @for-the-record
Have Jews apologised for anything ever?
For the “mistake” of sinking the USS Liberty.
There just isn't a German campaign to shift Holocaust responsibility on Poles. It's a made-up claim by Polish right-wingers so can live out their anti-German obsessions and feel all righteous about it. If you asked them for evidence, they'd bring up a few sloppy newspaper articles referring to "Polish camps", and not much else.Replies: @AP, @utu
I agree that outwardly “There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators.” but there are undercurrents of insinuations and innuendos. Poles are irritated by the semantic game played by Germans when all the perpetrators became Nazis of unknown origin and nationality and that Germans considers themselves to be the first victims of those alien Nazis and then in the Jewish narrative who adopted this German semantic replacement the perpetrators are some unknown Nazis and very well known Poles. Recently Andrea Mitchel of NBC in Warsaw Ghetto said:
Poland Wants Correction After NBC’s Andrea Mitchell Says Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Against ‘Polish and Nazi Regime’
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/poland-wants-correction-of-journalists-polish-and-nazi-regime-statement-1.6938221
The Concentration camps can’t be officially called German camps while commonly they are referred to as Polish camps. Poles were upset by some parts of the miniseries “Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter” whee Polish partisans were shown only as antisemites. BTW, in Polish unsere=nasi so Poles twisted the title to Nazi Mothers and Nazi Fathers.
Anyway you have tendency to concentrate on unimportant minutiae (Ewa Kurek talked about more important issues than what you picked.) because you do not want to face bigger issues. Keep in mind that Poland is fighting for its life right now with respect to Jewish financial claims and people are confused because their government is not straight with them. For instance somebody in the government came up with a ‘brilliant’ idea of demanding reparations from Germany. It is a very cynical move to awaken in an average Poles greed and a Jewish spirit of vindictiveness so they would become more understanding and sympathetic to Jewish claims. But the claim against Germany is just a bluff and nobody sane believes that they are made in a good faith but I am sure they are upsetting to Germans. It is just a posturing of the pathetic Polish government to manipulate their confused subjects on behalf of Jews. Imho Poland’s only chance is to be on a very good terms with Germany and they are blowing it.
Many years ago when the communism was collapsing and finally people could talk about history I was learning some alternative narratives of WWII that were more congruent with my family histories (that included Auschwitz, Moabit, other KL’s in Germany and even with Gulag) I had a dream that there was window of opportunity that Poland together with Germany could rectify some of its history (after all there were archives in Poland no longer in control by communist and many witnesses still alive), thet history that was distorted in early years after WWII however quickly I found out that most Poles and most Germans are idiots and cucks like yourself and they do not want any rectification. German cucks like yourself want tow wallow in guilt forever and and do not want to share blame with anybody and most Poles want to play the innocent victims like Jews and the Jews want to be above it all and keep laughing all the way to the bank. I had a silly hope that Poles could help to absolve Germans from some of their guilt but apparently I must be an idiot as well.
This discussion is getting increasingly retarded and your style of debate gets on my nerves. I think I'm not going to comment on issues related to WW2 or National Socialism anymore, it's a pointless waste of time.Replies: @utu
many times - for example, some tribes of Siberia have blond hair and light eyes
https://media.nazaccent.ru/files/27/58/2758079a10ecbad755f622901c230b8c.jpg
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6702/287731.2c/0_bc663_fb69ae36_XL.jpeg.jpgReplies: @AP, @Philip Owen
Linguists claim to have found connections between Welsh and Berber. This could be the influence of the Atlantic trading network now supposed to be the origin of Celtic language or of population movement. I don’t know of any genetic studies.
Poland Wants Correction After NBC’s Andrea Mitchell Says Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Against ‘Polish and Nazi Regime’
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/poland-wants-correction-of-journalists-polish-and-nazi-regime-statement-1.6938221
The Concentration camps can't be officially called German camps while commonly they are referred to as Polish camps. Poles were upset by some parts of the miniseries "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" whee Polish partisans were shown only as antisemites. BTW, in Polish unsere=nasi so Poles twisted the title to Nazi Mothers and Nazi Fathers.
Anyway you have tendency to concentrate on unimportant minutiae (Ewa Kurek talked about more important issues than what you picked.) because you do not want to face bigger issues. Keep in mind that Poland is fighting for its life right now with respect to Jewish financial claims and people are confused because their government is not straight with them. For instance somebody in the government came up with a 'brilliant' idea of demanding reparations from Germany. It is a very cynical move to awaken in an average Poles greed and a Jewish spirit of vindictiveness so they would become more understanding and sympathetic to Jewish claims. But the claim against Germany is just a bluff and nobody sane believes that they are made in a good faith but I am sure they are upsetting to Germans. It is just a posturing of the pathetic Polish government to manipulate their confused subjects on behalf of Jews. Imho Poland's only chance is to be on a very good terms with Germany and they are blowing it.
Many years ago when the communism was collapsing and finally people could talk about history I was learning some alternative narratives of WWII that were more congruent with my family histories (that included Auschwitz, Moabit, other KL's in Germany and even with Gulag) I had a dream that there was window of opportunity that Poland together with Germany could rectify some of its history (after all there were archives in Poland no longer in control by communist and many witnesses still alive), thet history that was distorted in early years after WWII however quickly I found out that most Poles and most Germans are idiots and cucks like yourself and they do not want any rectification. German cucks like yourself want tow wallow in guilt forever and and do not want to share blame with anybody and most Poles want to play the innocent victims like Jews and the Jews want to be above it all and keep laughing all the way to the bank. I had a silly hope that Poles could help to absolve Germans from some of their guilt but apparently I must be an idiot as well.Replies: @German_reader
You’re now starting to contradict yourself even in the same post…what’s it now? Germans claiming “The Nazis had nothing to do with us”, or Germans wallowing in their unique and exclusive guilt? Can hardly both be true at the same time.
This discussion is getting increasingly retarded and your style of debate gets on my nerves. I think I’m not going to comment on issues related to WW2 or National Socialism anymore, it’s a pointless waste of time.
Ukraine elections by region:
Zelensky – dominates southern Ukraine but with significant support everywhere else.
Poroshenko – wins in the West and his native Vynnytsia, and ties with Tymoshenko in the Center
Tymoshenko – ties with Poroshenko in the Center (may have slight lead over him there)
Boyko (Opposition Bloc, former Party of Regions) wins in the East
The top 3 all want to continue pursuing the pro-Western course but Zelensky is less anti-Russian, being a Russian-speaking Jew (he did donate $1 million to the Ukrainian army when it really needed it in 2014 so he isn’t a pro-Russian puppet of Putin as Poroshenko’s ads will claim). In polls Odessans/southern Ukrainians are much softer on Russia than are western and central Ukrainians but, unlike eastern Ukrainians, prefer EU-oriented geopolitical policy over a Russian-oriented one. Zelensky seems like that, but even more strongly pro-EU because he is trying to appeal to western and central Ukrainian voters also.
If Tymoshenko joins Zelensky, I decrease Poroshenko’s chances of winning the second round from 40% to 20%.
Zelensky - dominates southern Ukraine but with significant support everywhere else.
Poroshenko - wins in the West and his native Vynnytsia, and ties with Tymoshenko in the Center
Tymoshenko - ties with Poroshenko in the Center (may have slight lead over him there)
Boyko (Opposition Bloc, former Party of Regions) wins in the East
The top 3 all want to continue pursuing the pro-Western course but Zelensky is less anti-Russian, being a Russian-speaking Jew (he did donate $1 million to the Ukrainian army when it really needed it in 2014 so he isn't a pro-Russian puppet of Putin as Poroshenko's ads will claim). In polls Odessans/southern Ukrainians are much softer on Russia than are western and central Ukrainians but, unlike eastern Ukrainians, prefer EU-oriented geopolitical policy over a Russian-oriented one. Zelensky seems like that, but even more strongly pro-EU because he is trying to appeal to western and central Ukrainian voters also.
If Tymoshenko joins Zelensky, I decrease Poroshenko's chances of winning the second round from 40% to 20%.Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Gerard2
Boyko’s voters will go en masse to Zelensky in the second round, correct?
Also, why did southern Ukrainians but not eastern Ukrainians sour on the Eurasian idea after 2014? After all, eastern Ukraine was much more affected by the War in the Donbass than southern Ukraine was.
The Taft court was based. They basically said that the Constitution doesn’t apply to Puerto Ricans.
The "Taft court" was correct.
Of course she has to bring up this which is just the usual Polish paranoia that is getting very tiresome. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It's something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.Replies: @utu, @Matra
There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It’s something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.
There is almost certainly an organised campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators, however it is obviously not Germans who are leading it. This campaign is modelled on a similar campaign that began in the late 80s and early 90s against Switzerland that eventually led to that country being subjected to a very well organised and, sadly, successful shakedown from the highest levels of the US government. Angelo Codevilla wrote about this in his excellent book Between the Alps and a Hard Place as did Norman Finkelstein in The Holocaust Industry. I think the Poles are currently being tested for weakness. Polish provincialism – so typical of conservative people – combined with their sycophantic relationship with the US (and Israel) probably makes them look like an easy mark for a Swiss-style shakedown.
A lot of them will stay home but the ones who vote will choose him over Poroshenko.
Their economy hasn’t done as badly with Ukraine’s reorientation as has the East’s.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%B7%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B2_%D0%B4%D0%BE_%D0%92%D0%A0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8_2014_%28%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%96%D1%8F_%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%29.png
As you can see, the Opposition Bloc did best in eastern Novorossiya, worse in central Novorossiya, and worst in western Novorossiya in 2014. Why exactly was this the case? After all, the economic effects of the reorientation towards Europe weren't yet visible in 2014--were they?Replies: @AP
This discussion is getting increasingly retarded and your style of debate gets on my nerves. I think I'm not going to comment on issues related to WW2 or National Socialism anymore, it's a pointless waste of time.Replies: @utu
That should not be a problem for you. You have already wasted most of your life as a cuck.
Here's a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the "popularity" of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The "results" suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu's thesis.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @songbird
That is interesting – definite acceleration during the 1970s and seemingly a bit of decline recently.
The memorial in Hyde Park (1983) was supposedly the first public one built in Britain. But they are supposedly building a second one (!) in London in Victoria Gardens Tower. They are calling it the National Holocaust Memorial and presumably it will be the biggest one yet, at least in Britain. What is curious is that when they talk about it, they tack some of the other groups on, like gypsies. It will be interesting to see how long the LGBT string is, but I suppose they will spell everything out.
My local one in Boston was built in 1995. I was very disturbed the first time I took note of it, and the nearby black heritage trail. It is definitely an attempt to grab the minds of schoolkids and tourists, and rewrite the narrative of the city into one of victimhood, when it was traditionally about freedom. It is all in imitation of the Freedom Trail, but for victimhood. A general reflection of politics. Indeed, the pols and clergy are generally there when the monuments are dedicated.
I saw the one in Boston and also thought it was out of place with all the historic colonial and early American sites, also what relevance does it have to Boston.Replies: @for-the-record
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:
https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495
Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.
If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.
But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Matra
Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this
Your snarky remark aside Buchanan was backing Demjanjuk way back in the 1980s and was clear at the time that the Soviets were framing him. He did this at some cost to himself as he was regularly smeared in US media for doing so. PB was also one of the few western pundits at the time to regularly mentioned the “captured nations” of the USSR. But I guess that’s not enough for some Eastern European nationalists with their passionate attachments to foreign states.
Your snarky remark aside Buchanan was backing Demjanjuk way back in the 1980s and was clear at the time that the Soviets were framing him. He did this at some cost to himself as he was regularly smeared in US media for doing so. PB was also one of the few western pundits at the time to regularly mentioned the "captured nations" of the USSR. But I guess that's not enough for some Eastern European nationalists with their passionate attachments to foreign states.Replies: @AP
Calling me a nationalist doesn’t make me one.
As opposed to the passionate Anglo attachment to Muslims and non-Westerners as seen among North American and British Anglos (and now in New Zealand also) and as reflected in Anglo demographic shifts everywhere.
Here's a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the "popularity" of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The "results" suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu's thesis.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @songbird
Wikipedia has some lists, but they are definitely not precise. Might be generalist monuments included. Some are definitely missing, or multiple locations rolled into one word in Germany.
I did a rough count of the ones in the US: 50. Many states aren’t listed, many have multiples.
I suspect others are beginning to hijack the narrative. Quite amusing: they put up a monument to homosexuals in Berlin in 2008. Lesbians apparently complained, and wanted kissing lesbians on the monument, but there wasn’t much evidence for lesbians being persecuted. So, a compromise was reached. They would change the video of kissing homos to kissing lesbos every two years. A Holocaust survivor complained about the nearness of the monument to a Holocaust memorial, saying it did not give a sense of proportionality.
That makes sense. That said, though, maybe Zelensky should promise to invest in eastern Ukraine in an attempt to get more Boyko voters to vote for him instead of staying at home.
That makes sense in 2019, but this pattern was already visible even back in 2014:
As you can see, the Opposition Bloc did best in eastern Novorossiya, worse in central Novorossiya, and worst in western Novorossiya in 2014. Why exactly was this the case? After all, the economic effects of the reorientation towards Europe weren’t yet visible in 2014–were they?
BTW, the Boyko-voting areas are where Novorossiya should seek to expand in the event of a future war with Ukraine, correct?
Zelensky - dominates southern Ukraine but with significant support everywhere else.
Poroshenko - wins in the West and his native Vynnytsia, and ties with Tymoshenko in the Center
Tymoshenko - ties with Poroshenko in the Center (may have slight lead over him there)
Boyko (Opposition Bloc, former Party of Regions) wins in the East
The top 3 all want to continue pursuing the pro-Western course but Zelensky is less anti-Russian, being a Russian-speaking Jew (he did donate $1 million to the Ukrainian army when it really needed it in 2014 so he isn't a pro-Russian puppet of Putin as Poroshenko's ads will claim). In polls Odessans/southern Ukrainians are much softer on Russia than are western and central Ukrainians but, unlike eastern Ukrainians, prefer EU-oriented geopolitical policy over a Russian-oriented one. Zelensky seems like that, but even more strongly pro-EU because he is trying to appeal to western and central Ukrainian voters also.
If Tymoshenko joins Zelensky, I decrease Poroshenko's chances of winning the second round from 40% to 20%.Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @Gerard2
HAHAHAHA………the idea of a cretin as yourself masquerading as some sort of “expert” on this election, or any Ukrainian election is grotesque in the extreme. Unlike you, I have been watching Zelensky’s comedy for years on KVN and Kvartal95. He like everybody in Ukraine, made his money off Russian audience, but when he switched to Ukrainian TV it made no difference…..because that’s what happens then there is one identical culture and people across 2 states you idiot. Even before he was announced as running for President – my Youtube was full of suggested videos from Kvartal95 involving him because I have followed for a while.
Now, the embarassing spectacle of you talking about a candidate you know absolute nothing about, who has a serious chance of becoming the new President of Banderastan…..is comical, when clearly you don’t know anything about him, certainly had never hear of him before he announced he was running….and in general have f**k all knowledge about Banderastan…just copy and pasted fantasist drivel and fake arguments plaigisrised from Wikipedia and some moron like Motyl
LOL…what’s this nonsense insinuation? That Poroshenko, Boiko, Tymoshenko don’t speak perfect Russian? Or have spoken it as the main language for the majority of their lifes at home and in public?…and probably still speak it at home when the camera’s aren’t home…Valtsman certainly talks like he’s thinking in Russian…and even the bastard head of this new fake church in Ukraine, inexplicably speaks in Russian when conducting a phone call done by Vovan and Lexus, pretending to be some german ambassador
Hey, I have a question for you AP, are you in favour of Poroshenko remaining in power? If so, why?
People may call you a Ukrainian nationalist for convenience, since calling you “that Ukrainian guy who longs for Intermarium” is a bit belabored.
Judging by Ukraine’s demographic shifts, Ukrainians have a passionate attachment to non-existence.
Sovok eastern Ukraine - the birth rate of Japan combined with the HIV rate of Africa.
TFR in Western Ukraine is among the highest in Europe among white people. Among Sovoks it is the lowest.
Sovok eastern Ukraine – the birth rate of Japan combined with the HIV rate of Africa.
I don’t like him but he is probably the least bad option. He has a mixed record. No progress on corruption is a huge minus, but he has reformed the army, fixed the church situation and brought Ukraine closer to the West. I’m not sure Ukraine is yet stable enough for a Zelensky experiment. Zelensky also seems rather weak. But if he manages some corruption reform…
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%B7%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B2_%D0%B4%D0%BE_%D0%92%D0%A0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8_2014_%28%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%96%D1%8F_%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%29.png
As you can see, the Opposition Bloc did best in eastern Novorossiya, worse in central Novorossiya, and worst in western Novorossiya in 2014. Why exactly was this the case? After all, the economic effects of the reorientation towards Europe weren't yet visible in 2014--were they?Replies: @AP
Not as much as now but they were fairly obvious to predict.
I guess it’s useless to speculate, as we’ll have the results soon enough, but I’m not sure that Poroshenko would be the worst option for Russia’s interests. He seems to be an impediment to anti-corruption measures, and the Ukrainian army corruption scandal that broke out not too long ago suggests that his failure on corruption is having negative practical effects on Ukraine’s ability to function as a state. EU membership isn’t coming anytime soon, and it doesn’t seem likely to me that Ukraine will be able to affect real economic gains under Poroshenko’s leadership
Meanwhile, from what I can tell, Zelensky is pretty much a question mark. What if he turns out to be competent? Russia would be in a much more difficult position if Ukraine had a leader who was pro-western, willing to fight corruption, and able to deliver major improvements in the quality of life of the average Ukrainian. Poroshenko hardly fits the above description, except for the pro-western part.
Corruption is certainly slowing Ukraine down. But it is functioning as a state. Economy has been growing 2%-4% a year for three years now, the army has improved immensely (albeit from a horrible base), foreign reserves are up to 2013 levels and foreign debt has declined from its peak in 2016. Its a very corrupt state but it is not a state of anarchy in collapse.
Two of the Maidan anti-corruption activists who were pushed out of the government by Poroshenko support Zelensky. This does not mean that Zelensky will necessarily actually fight corruption (it could mean those two Maidan guys have a tendency to naively attach themselves to people and then by discarded.
But it is a question mark. The guy has no experience. He doesn’t strike me as particularly strong, yet he will be standing toe to toe with some very strong opponents. And he may very well be nothing more than a tool of Kolomoysky. But theoretically he has the potential to be good.
The Taft court was based. They basically said that the Constitution doesn’t apply to Puerto Ricans.
The “Taft court” was correct.
But it is a question mark. The guy has no experience. He doesn't strike me as particularly strong, yet he will be standing toe to toe with some very strong opponents. And he may very well be nothing more than a tool of Kolomoysky. But theoretically he has the potential to be good.Replies: @Denis
I never said that Ukraine was in a state of anarchy. I just said that the army corruption scandal indicates that corruption impedes the state’s proper functioning, which I think is self-evident. In the midst of a conflict with Russia, the son of a government official, who is connected to Poroshenko, was smuggling in sub-standard equipment from Russia, and then selling it to the national defense industry at inflated prices. Embezzlement of funds from the defense sector by government officials, in the midst of an armed conflict no less, is what I call a practical issue.
As for the economy, I’m not sure that I would attribute any successes on that front to Poroshenko’s governance. It is in a fragile state, either way.
My personal guess is that he is a corrupt clown, but you never know. If he turns out to actually deliver on some of his promises, it would create a problem for Russia. He’s photogenic and popular, if he can combine those assets with genuine accomplishments, he would make it that much more difficult for Russia to pull Ukraine back, as the government would then have significantly more legitimacy in the eyes of the public.
The Arbiter of Who Is a Cuck is a cuckservative who enthusiastically advocates punching right and is – in the best cuckservative tradition – proposing cooperation with Based Blacks eager for an alliance with white conservatives and nationalists, who are pretty numerous, albeit only in his imagination.
You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words "We forgive and ask for forgiveness". You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie "Tonight a City Will Die" about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k
Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel "Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death" centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish "burglar" outfit.
Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future 'reined Tors" are now conditioned by Tarantino's "Inglourious Basterds." I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.
Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.
Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @reiner Tor
I’m pretty sure you must have been reading someone else’s comments, not mine.
My local one in Boston was built in 1995. I was very disturbed the first time I took note of it, and the nearby black heritage trail. It is definitely an attempt to grab the minds of schoolkids and tourists, and rewrite the narrative of the city into one of victimhood, when it was traditionally about freedom. It is all in imitation of the Freedom Trail, but for victimhood. A general reflection of politics. Indeed, the pols and clergy are generally there when the monuments are dedicated.Replies: @LondonBob
I don’t think Victoria Gardens Tower will happen, there is a lot of opposition as it is a green space in central London, a Royal Park and a part of a world heritage site. That it was even proposed to build one, and right next to Parliament, is disturbing enough.
I saw the one in Boston and also thought it was out of place with all the historic colonial and early American sites, also what relevance does it have to Boston.
On what grounds could anyone possibly object? http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1369/03_South_East_017_project_image.jpg
http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1527/AJ004_0019326_View01_RAA_Edit_project_image.jpgReplies: @reiner Tor
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte#Die_Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte_vom_26._Juni_1969Of course even many high-ranking German Nazi perpetrators were never really punished, but there were investigations and trials of German perpetrators, even recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning#Criminal_charges_and_trialI think the Demjanjuk case was a travesty and it was problematic that German prosecutors charged him. But on the other hand, Ukrainians shouldn't complain too much. Ukrainian collaborators did go on an enthusiastic Jew-hunt in Lviv in 1941 after all, and unlike Demjanjuk they weren't under any compulsion to do so.Replies: @reiner Tor
Ukraine could’ve accepted Demjanjuk if they wanted to spare him the indignity of the trial in Germany. It was the case that he couldn’t be deported from the US for years because he was stateless and no country was willing to accept him. Then, years later, some German prosecutor came up with the idea that he could be prosecuted, and got the green light. Then they used his case as a kind of a precedent (German law is not based on precedent, but still prosecutors will look to past court decisions as a kind of guideline what they can do) to start prosecuting dozens of German nonagenarians, for example an accountant from Auschwitz. The accountant was forced to tell stupid lies, which is quite a bit of an indignity, he had to say he had no idea what was going on in Auschwitz. I mean, this was a bloody war, and he was probably happy that he wasn’t sent to the front, nor did he have to do anything gruesome, just accounting. Of course he knew what the camp was for. Everyone knew. So what. Jewish leaders in Hungary in 1944 knew, but kept spreading the lies to the Jewish community that they were going to be settled in an agricultural area where food was more readily available. Eventually the charges were dropped against most of them, though their contribution was probably greater than that of this accountant. The Jewish leaders had the same motivation as the accountant: they all wanted to survive. Jewish Council membership was better than being shot or sent to Auschwitz, and being an accountant in Auschwitz was better than being sent to the Eastern Front.
I saw the one in Boston and also thought it was out of place with all the historic colonial and early American sites, also what relevance does it have to Boston.Replies: @for-the-record
I don’t think Victoria Gardens Tower will happen, there is a lot of opposition as it is a green space in central London, a Royal Park and a part of a world heritage site.
On what grounds could anyone possibly object?
Another issue is that the memorials shouldn’t be hideous.Replies: @DFH, @songbird
On what grounds could anyone possibly object? http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1369/03_South_East_017_project_image.jpg
http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1527/AJ004_0019326_View01_RAA_Edit_project_image.jpgReplies: @reiner Tor
I don’t, in principle, oppose holocaust memorials, but I don’t think they should be at the most prominent place in cities, except if there is a connection. (E.g. if they shot hundreds of Jews at a location, then there could be a memorial, and if it’s the main square, then there.) I also don’t think there should be memorials across the globe. It happened in Europe, so the memorials should be there. Israel is an obvious exception, and Jewish cultural or religious organizations could obviously place plaques on the walls of their buildings on other continents, or even raise memorials in historical Jewish quarters, e.g. in front of a synagogue.
Another issue is that the memorials shouldn’t be hideous.
But they especially shouldn't be in London, where obviously no Jews were killed. The obvious thing to do if they had to (although I would also oppose this) would be to have something commemorating defeating Nazism or Fascism (like the memorial to the Communist volunteers in Spain, which at least has a good line from Byron on) but I suppose that would lack the implication of British people being guilty for something which is the whole point of the thing.Replies: @reiner Tor
I've come to think that political art (I will specify public monuments of special interest groups) will always be somewhere on the ugly spectrum. The reasons are various: firstly, it is kind of an ethnic con, like Madoff. The artist is often a co-ethnic, who has talked his way in. Jews, in particular, skew verbal. While they are often good at math, I think they are very seldom good at visual arts. Anything spatial.
Black monuments made by blacks tend to be ugly too. Contrast to the monument to the 54th on Boston Common (Shaw Memorial) by Saint-Gaudens (1897), who also designed some old US coins - it is reasonably aesthetically pleasing, though it encourages some historical inaccuracies, like that the regiment, which fought in the Civil War, was almost entirely black, other than its commander. Probably another factor is time. Newer monuments reflect civilizational decay.
A third factor is that the approval process is laden with signaling value, so it will tend to evoke modern art, which seems to be ugly in order to have signaling value.
On the other hand, nationalistic art (which involves a country rather than an expat community) can be quite interesting, even when it evokes defeat, it evokes sacrifice.
Another issue is that the memorials shouldn’t be hideous.Replies: @DFH, @songbird
They shouldn’t exist anywhere except maybe in Israel. Commemorating things which you (supposedly) did to other peoples is bizarre, probably psychologically unhealthy and no other race of people apart from Northern Europeans (and even then, under heavy Jewish pressure) would do it.
But they especially shouldn’t be in London, where obviously no Jews were killed. The obvious thing to do if they had to (although I would also oppose this) would be to have something commemorating defeating Nazism or Fascism (like the memorial to the Communist volunteers in Spain, which at least has a good line from Byron on) but I suppose that would lack the implication of British people being guilty for something which is the whole point of the thing.
So it’s basically just a memorial to a group of locals who had been massacred by an occupying power. Yes, there were some local accomplices, but they didn’t organize it or conceive of the idea in the first place.
Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.Replies: @DFH, @German_reader
I think the virtue signaling benefit is basically nonexistent. In Hungary Richard Spencer was kicked out on Orbán’s personal decision after the liberal press created a minor scandal about the supposed neo-Nazi conference. After that the same liberal press published a few articles about how problematic it is that the prime minister could make such decisions to shut down this conference, racist or not, this suddenly became a question of liberty and human rights and maybe even freedom of expression. Okay, there were more articles about the horrors of the racist conference, so probably Orbán was better off this way, but the benefits either way were minimal.
I’m opposed to gaining virtue signaling points by punching right. It’s also a kind of national psychopathy to not care for other countries in the same civilization. It’s also pretty shortsighted. The fate of Poland will be decided in Western Europe and the US. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president. We should at least do minimal damage to the people fighting this future there.
But they especially shouldn't be in London, where obviously no Jews were killed. The obvious thing to do if they had to (although I would also oppose this) would be to have something commemorating defeating Nazism or Fascism (like the memorial to the Communist volunteers in Spain, which at least has a good line from Byron on) but I suppose that would lack the implication of British people being guilty for something which is the whole point of the thing.Replies: @reiner Tor
But that’s not entirely true. In most places you can argue that it wasn’t the locals who did it, at least they didn’t organize it. And Jews were at least to an extent part of the local community, even if there were issues with their presence and long term it would have been better if they left. Just an example, my grandma worked at a shoe factory. (A very small factory with little automation.) Her master (longtime boss who taught her the trade) was Jewish. She liked him a lot. Decades later she lamented his death, he committed suicide with his wife the night before they had to move to the ghetto. The Jews would be deported a few weeks later anyway. I find it appropriate that in the small city where this happened, and I grew up several decades later, there is a plaque where previously the synagogue had been.
So it’s basically just a memorial to a group of locals who had been massacred by an occupying power. Yes, there were some local accomplices, but they didn’t organize it or conceive of the idea in the first place.
Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.
The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren't actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it's probably pointless to complain about things which can't be changed.Replies: @LondonBob, @songbird, @reiner Tor
I’m opposed to gaining virtue signaling points by punching right. It’s also a kind of national psychopathy to not care for other countries in the same civilization. It’s also pretty shortsighted. The fate of Poland will be decided in Western Europe and the US. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president. We should at least do minimal damage to the people fighting this future there.Replies: @DFH, @szopen
I have heard Spencer say before that it was alt-light/Breitbart people who contacted the Hungarian authorities to try and get him banned
So it’s basically just a memorial to a group of locals who had been massacred by an occupying power. Yes, there were some local accomplices, but they didn’t organize it or conceive of the idea in the first place.
Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.Replies: @DFH, @German_reader
I suppose I can understand that justification
Then they must have contacted the Hungarian liberal press, too, because roughly a week or two before the planned conference the liberal press started to write articles about the horrible racist neo-Nazi conference. I’m pretty sure this was the decisive factor for Orbán, unless some foreign leaders or services asked him to do that. Alt-lite foreigners (basically nobodies) cannot have been more important to Orbán than the Hungarian liberal press.
Anyway, I seriously doubt that Orbán gained much by kicking Spencer and his conference out. Though Spencer was useless anyway, so probably not much was lost, but I just don’t like the idea.
For those people here who think the concept of hate crimes is stupid, why aren’t these people criticizing Singapore, because its IQ is high?
I'll add I'd be perfectly willing to give some lipservice to multiculturalism, if it meant having a 74% Euro (more multicult than Han!) city state, with a nice harbor at a major bottleneck of shipping lines. Is there another one open for settlement in Malaysia?
Actually, I will criticize Singapore: it is an IQ shredder. Its TFR is abominable. They should be breeding smart, high TFR Chinese and exporting them back to China to repay for the ones they absorbed and deadended.
I’ll add I’d be perfectly willing to give some lipservice to multiculturalism, if it meant having a 74% Euro (more multicult than Han!) city state, with a nice harbor at a major bottleneck of shipping lines. Is there another one open for settlement in Malaysia?
I’m opposed to gaining virtue signaling points by punching right. It’s also a kind of national psychopathy to not care for other countries in the same civilization. It’s also pretty shortsighted. The fate of Poland will be decided in Western Europe and the US. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president. We should at least do minimal damage to the people fighting this future there.Replies: @DFH, @szopen
It does not matter what I believe. The reality is as it is: we have government which is not as based as some in the West believed, a government which actually is ready to go for “we are not racists!” signalling whenever is the need, plus we have administration infiltrated by idiots educated in progressive universities.
So it’s basically just a memorial to a group of locals who had been massacred by an occupying power. Yes, there were some local accomplices, but they didn’t organize it or conceive of the idea in the first place.
Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.Replies: @DFH, @German_reader
In Germany you’ve got that kind of commemoration in probably every major city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolperstein
At first I thought, ok, if German Jews were deported to concentration camps and were murdered there, the least one can do is commemorate their names. But I have to admit I’ve changed my mind about this and have come to resent those Stolpersteine. They not only commemorate Jews who were actually murdered, but also those who managed to escape to Latin America or some other Western country…no doubt being forced to emigrate because of racial persecution was a terrible experience, but was it really that much worse than what happened to many other people in the first half of the 20th century? And then you’ve got commemorative stones for lefties persecuted by the Nazis. Not even always killed, maybe just imprisoned (there’s one like that just a few streets from me). And not just for Social Democrats, but also for Communists (iirc there’s one even for Ernst Thälmann now). Were Communists really that much more innocent than the average NSDAP member?
The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren’t actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it’s probably pointless to complain about things which can’t be changed.
The most obviously pernicious monuments are those that are designed to have geographic spread. The Lynching Museum in Montgomery is a special case. It hosts monuments which are meant to shame 800 counties into accepting lynching monuments. The replicas are already built and on display. It is like something biological, giving birth to 800 eggs. Some have already been transplanted.
What is really funny is that it hosts more than 800 jars from the sites where black lynchings took place. It really evokes Dracula shipping in his Transylvanian soil. I might add many were likely murderers and rapists, and there are no monuments to the many obviously innocent whites killed by crowds of blacks.Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH
Basically they take a few normal things (remembrance of the innocent, the fact that there was an organized mass slaughter of millions of civilians, etc.), and blow it all out of proportions and use it for a horrible propaganda.
Another issue is that the memorials shouldn’t be hideous.Replies: @DFH, @songbird
That they have four or more in Brazil is pretty bizarre. Once you are in another hemisphere, it really becomes odd, but maybe they should be thought of as monuments to immigration.
I’ve come to think that political art (I will specify public monuments of special interest groups) will always be somewhere on the ugly spectrum. The reasons are various: firstly, it is kind of an ethnic con, like Madoff. The artist is often a co-ethnic, who has talked his way in. Jews, in particular, skew verbal. While they are often good at math, I think they are very seldom good at visual arts. Anything spatial.
Black monuments made by blacks tend to be ugly too. Contrast to the monument to the 54th on Boston Common (Shaw Memorial) by Saint-Gaudens (1897), who also designed some old US coins – it is reasonably aesthetically pleasing, though it encourages some historical inaccuracies, like that the regiment, which fought in the Civil War, was almost entirely black, other than its commander. Probably another factor is time. Newer monuments reflect civilizational decay.
A third factor is that the approval process is laden with signaling value, so it will tend to evoke modern art, which seems to be ugly in order to have signaling value.
On the other hand, nationalistic art (which involves a country rather than an expat community) can be quite interesting, even when it evokes defeat, it evokes sacrifice.
The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren't actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it's probably pointless to complain about things which can't be changed.Replies: @LondonBob, @songbird, @reiner Tor
At that point in time Communists were far worse than Nazis, one had already committed genocide. Tragedies happen all the time, I don’t see monuments to the victims of the Viking raids or Norman conquest around me. Such things are always political weapons for manipulating the present day.
The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren't actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it's probably pointless to complain about things which can't be changed.Replies: @LondonBob, @songbird, @reiner Tor
Holy cow: 70,000 by 2018! That’s incredible!
The most obviously pernicious monuments are those that are designed to have geographic spread. The Lynching Museum in Montgomery is a special case. It hosts monuments which are meant to shame 800 counties into accepting lynching monuments. The replicas are already built and on display. It is like something biological, giving birth to 800 eggs. Some have already been transplanted.
What is really funny is that it hosts more than 800 jars from the sites where black lynchings took place. It really evokes Dracula shipping in his Transylvanian soil. I might add many were likely murderers and rapists, and there are no monuments to the many obviously innocent whites killed by crowds of blacks.
Of course they are pushing for those monuments more and more. Precisely because the purpose is not to commemorate the victims (who have long been forgotten), but to push for their particular ideology.Replies: @German_reader, @Jaakko Raipala
The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren't actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it's probably pointless to complain about things which can't be changed.Replies: @LondonBob, @songbird, @reiner Tor
Yes, Holocaustianity is a pretty annoying religion. It’s possible that a balanced approach to remembrance is impossible. If we started the process of dismantling the most egregious examples of these memorials, they’d soon all be scrapped. I agree it’s better not to remember than this warped “remembrance,” which is basically a suicide cult.
Basically they take a few normal things (remembrance of the innocent, the fact that there was an organized mass slaughter of millions of civilians, etc.), and blow it all out of proportions and use it for a horrible propaganda.
For any operant conditioning, museums of genocide should be as ugly designed as possible.
But even more more ugly, should be museums about war and military history. As long as it does not offend sensitivity of still living veterans, the museums should be full of skeletons, photos of one armed cripples, and the use scents in the museum that smells of dead bodies, which are the harvest of any war.
From the 19th century, especially, there was a problem of beautiful commemorations to war – think about the glamour of Napoleon’s tomb in Paris, and compare it to what must of have been the reality of a battlefield, after an unnecessary war by Napoleon.
On the other hand, museums of science, engineering and education, should be the most beautiful places in any city, with good looking staff, harmonized buildings, and multicoloured glass.
It also ignores political questions. There are a lot of horrible photographs from the American civil war, of the dead rotting on the battlefields, often with their shirts torn off, because they had checked if they had been shot in the stomach (which was a death sentence then); also many of horribly mutilated veterans. Yet many Americans would still say it was worth it to preserve the Union and to abolish slavery.
There are worse things than war after all, so it's always a political calculation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @songbird
The most obviously pernicious monuments are those that are designed to have geographic spread. The Lynching Museum in Montgomery is a special case. It hosts monuments which are meant to shame 800 counties into accepting lynching monuments. The replicas are already built and on display. It is like something biological, giving birth to 800 eggs. Some have already been transplanted.
What is really funny is that it hosts more than 800 jars from the sites where black lynchings took place. It really evokes Dracula shipping in his Transylvanian soil. I might add many were likely murderers and rapists, and there are no monuments to the many obviously innocent whites killed by crowds of blacks.Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH
I think a sensible approach is a moratorium on the building of any new holocaust memorials. It happened three quarters of a century ago. Even in the former Eastern Bloc, we’ve now had several decades of democracy when we could decide for ourselves what to commemorate. In Hungary for example we’ve had twelve years of leftist governments, some of it during prosperous times. Between 2002 and 2006 all big cities except Debrecen had leftist (socialist or free democratic) mayors. Budapest had a liberal (Free Democrat) mayor 1990-2010, with a coalition of socialist and free democratic majority in the council. The vast majority of Budapest’s districts had a Free Democrat or Socialist mayor and council majority during the first two decades after 1990. Anything they didn’t feel the need to build a monument to then is certainly not very important to commemorate even from a leftist point of view. As time goes and the event fades away, the need could only decrease.
Of course they are pushing for those monuments more and more. Precisely because the purpose is not to commemorate the victims (who have long been forgotten), but to push for their particular ideology.
I don't think we had a single Holocaust memorial in Finland back when we were a Soviet vassal state with powerful socialist parties and commies. I don't even remember reading about it in school history books - it probably was there but the Holocaust just wasn't considered nowhere near as important by leftists as the atrocities of the Civil War. The most evil man in history wasn't Hitler, it was either Nikolai II or general Mannerheim.
Now that we are a EU/American vassal ruled by nominally "right-wing" parties there's no escaping the constant Holocaust propaganda. It's pretty damn offensive considering that there's been absolutely zero persecution of Jews in this country, ever, and especially not during WWII when we really stood out as the Axis country where Jewish citizens weren't treated any different from anyone else fighting for the good crusade against Bolshevism.
Also another offensive thing is constant stuff about how we constantly hear that some Jew was killed in the camps because he wasn't accepted into Finland - we were in the middle of a world war so we turned back nearly all foreigners, it would be beyond stupid to do anything less.Replies: @songbird
Spencer seems to be a kind of marketing troll who was suddenly placed on stage by media in 2016 (with some preparation for him during late 2015), with the motive of attacking Trump – or whoever would be Republican candidate – by Pavlovian conditioning.
If you search for Richard Spencer before 2015 – it almost only finds other people with the same name, including World Bank economists. It seems like his public presence was created for mass promotion during the 2016 election.
Before 2015, he seems almost not to have existed in the public space and had less search optimization than the other normal, non-famous people with his name.
But in 2016, he was suddenly leader of American nationalists, and one of the most important people in the Presidential election, according to the media – a comical villain, associated exclusively with Donald Trump.
The actual person, Spencer, seemed to be quite irrelevant to media narrative. He has children with a not really racially European woman, who is a SJW according to Karlin.
So actual Spencer life was less “white nationalist” than most normal people, in their real life, but at the same time he has a certain haircut and sunglasses, which was useful for CNN or New York Times as a cartoon 21st century American Nazi.
I’m surprised media did not use him yet to create some Pavlovian association of the new “American Nazi” with Orban or Putin.
I certainly knew of him before 2016, and I suppose many other commenters here did as well.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anonymous
Of course they are pushing for those monuments more and more. Precisely because the purpose is not to commemorate the victims (who have long been forgotten), but to push for their particular ideology.Replies: @German_reader, @Jaakko Raipala
There’s also more and more of lobbying for commemorating colonial atrocities which happened even longer ago. And one can certainly expect more of that with the growth of the African-descended population in Europe.
But even more more ugly, should be museums about war and military history. As long as it does not offend sensitivity of still living veterans, the museums should be full of skeletons, photos of one armed cripples, and the use scents in the museum that smells of dead bodies, which are the harvest of any war.
From the 19th century, especially, there was a problem of beautiful commemorations to war - think about the glamour of Napoleon's tomb in Paris, and compare it to what must of have been the reality of a battlefield, after an unnecessary war by Napoleon.
On the other hand, museums of science, engineering and education, should be the most beautiful places in any city, with good looking staff, harmonized buildings, and multicoloured glass.Replies: @reiner Tor, @German_reader
Museums and monuments of wars should inspire future generations to fight for their countries. Motivation can only work inside your country. Therefore, if you build ugly museums, they will only discourage your own population from war. This is not very stable, because if other countries like China or the US will continue to glorify the military, they will have an advantage over us. This is actually happening now, with many European countries extremely weak with pacifistic populations.
So there is no generic answer to the question, of whether people should be "inspired to fight". However, inspired to fight for your village or city, people do not need motivation - there is natural motivation. Inspired to fight to conquer some foreign territory, or for some abstract ideology - it is often better people are not too inspired. When they could still remember more unpleasant aspects of war, citizens of European countries like UK were quite lucky their government was clever enough to avoid fighting in Vietnam (after France left). NATO managed to avoid (even what would have been mostly costless aerial) intervention in Syria, partly because of the public's unpleasant memories of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand, glorifying military, does not directly increase fighting ability. Mussolini's Italy, was glorifying military more than America, before Second World War. Yet Mussolini's army was ineffective in combat. Arab and Muslim countries usually glorify military, but they often lose wars. Organization and technology level of the society, is much more relevant to its abilities to fight. There is an issue of "military readiness" as a result of too much pacifism. However, with a couple of years preparation, a now pacifist society like Japan, would become more combat effective, than the complete Muslim world - despite the latter's glorification of millitary.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor, @DFH
Orbán kicked him out of Hungary in October 2014.
No, he was editor at Takimag well before that (where some really weird white nationalist, sort of neopagan stuff appeared under him, it was quite distinctive and different from what had appeared before at Takimag, clearly in line with his later statements). And before that for a short time he was even affiliated with the American conservative.
I certainly knew of him before 2016, and I suppose many other commenters here did as well.
Dmitry's point is well taken: when the US media wants to demonize some ideology or belief, they invariably seek out the fringiest, most off-the-wall "representative" they can find, and publicize him as though he were the Pope handing out infallible papal bulls to his millions of followers. Richard Spencer has nothing to do with Trump; most (essentially all) Trump supporters haven't heard of Richard Spencer, they don't know what his beliefs are and even if they did they wouldn't care. Spencer got publicized because of the way he looks and the rhetoric he uses, both of which immediately discredit him to most normal people; you can't publicize Jared Taylor, for example, because he's too normal looking, and his demeanor is too normal, and that might cause people to actually listen to what he has to say.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH
I certainly knew of him before 2016, and I suppose many other commenters here did as well.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anonymous
I also knew of him, though I somehow never read much of his writings. I was certainly aware of the cancelled conference in real time in October 2014.
But even more more ugly, should be museums about war and military history. As long as it does not offend sensitivity of still living veterans, the museums should be full of skeletons, photos of one armed cripples, and the use scents in the museum that smells of dead bodies, which are the harvest of any war.
From the 19th century, especially, there was a problem of beautiful commemorations to war - think about the glamour of Napoleon's tomb in Paris, and compare it to what must of have been the reality of a battlefield, after an unnecessary war by Napoleon.
On the other hand, museums of science, engineering and education, should be the most beautiful places in any city, with good looking staff, harmonized buildings, and multicoloured glass.Replies: @reiner Tor, @German_reader
I don’t think that “show people blood and guts and they’ll be against war” approach really works…anti-war films which rely on it are never very effective imo.
It also ignores political questions. There are a lot of horrible photographs from the American civil war, of the dead rotting on the battlefields, often with their shirts torn off, because they had checked if they had been shot in the stomach (which was a death sentence then); also many of horribly mutilated veterans. Yet many Americans would still say it was worth it to preserve the Union and to abolish slavery.
There are worse things than war after all, so it’s always a political calculation.
The worst atrocity of the Second World War was Pearl Harbor.
America should force other countries to construct Pearl Harbor memorials and incorporate Pearl Harbor Studies into their educational curricula.
Mitsubishi should also be sued into bankruptcy for constructing the Zero fighter.
Trafalgar Square in Britain should be rechristened as Pearl Harbor Square, and Nelson’s Column must be rededicated as the USS Arizona Remembrance Column.
Never forget.
Is the Pacific war really remembered all that much in the US anymore? I don't get the impression it plays much of a role in WW2 remembrance, apart from the endless discussions about the atomic bombings.Replies: @songbird
America should force other countries to construct Pearl Harbor memorials and incorporate Pearl Harbor Studies into their educational curricula.
Mitsubishi should also be sued into bankruptcy for constructing the Zero fighter.
Trafalgar Square in Britain should be rechristened as Pearl Harbor Square, and Nelson's Column must be rededicated as the USS Arizona Remembrance Column.
Never forget.Replies: @German_reader
I thought it had already been rededicated to Nelson Mandela, which is certainly more in line with Britain’s state today.
Is the Pacific war really remembered all that much in the US anymore? I don’t get the impression it plays much of a role in WW2 remembrance, apart from the endless discussions about the atomic bombings.
You joked about the new black monuments in Europe. I think the way they are talked about is so disturbing: it is always implied they are the first of many. It really highlights the analogy to flags - its about turf and who rules it.
The absolute worst one must be in Copenhagen. "I am Queen Mary." It is a 23 foot tall statue of negress sitting on one of those peacock thrones. Peacock thrones were originally popularized by being on a poster of some black militant in the US. Nothing to do with Africa, but the throne was put in the Black Panther movie (or at least on the poster - I have not seen the movie.). In one hand she has a killing implement which she probably would have used to kill white women and children, if successful. In another a torch for burning stuff down. Fortunately, the rebellion was crushed and its leaders put in prison.
It happened in the Virgin Islands, long after slavery ended. The choice of rhetoric highlights the beautiful houses of Copenhagen built supposedly from the profit of slaves. It's about Africans kicking the door into Europe down and pushing their way in, nothing else. The only way it could be worse if the torch was a real flame, from which future rioting blacks in Copenhagen could light their torches.Replies: @German_reader, @DFH
It also ignores political questions. There are a lot of horrible photographs from the American civil war, of the dead rotting on the battlefields, often with their shirts torn off, because they had checked if they had been shot in the stomach (which was a death sentence then); also many of horribly mutilated veterans. Yet many Americans would still say it was worth it to preserve the Union and to abolish slavery.
There are worse things than war after all, so it's always a political calculation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @songbird
Realistic war movies are often very popular among professional soldiers or officer candidates, based on the few of them I know.
I suppose Full metal jacket could be popular...but that isn't even meant to be an anti-war movie as far as I can tell.Replies: @reiner Tor
Which ones?
I suppose Full metal jacket could be popular…but that isn’t even meant to be an anti-war movie as far as I can tell.
The Thin Red Line
Jarhead (it even shows how a US marine didn’t even get to shoot his rifle in Kuwait in 1991)
Black Hawk Down
Das Boot
I don’t know if any of them were really realistic, nor if they were intended as anti-war. But they certainly did show war to be horrible. Yet... I can relate to people who somehow are still attracted to war. In part precisely because of the horrors. War is the highest level of human effort, when a large organized human group tries to destroy another large organized human group with all its efforts. It’s not a coincidence that technology advances usually not because of Dmitry’s motivating science and technology museums, but because of war, when society puts in the collective effort. Even in peacetime during arms races.Replies: @German_reader
It also ignores political questions. There are a lot of horrible photographs from the American civil war, of the dead rotting on the battlefields, often with their shirts torn off, because they had checked if they had been shot in the stomach (which was a death sentence then); also many of horribly mutilated veterans. Yet many Americans would still say it was worth it to preserve the Union and to abolish slavery.
There are worse things than war after all, so it's always a political calculation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @songbird
Many of those photos of the Civil War were actually staged. They arranged the bodies for the best effect. It’s easy to tell because faces can be recognized as being in different shots. One guy, Alexander Gardner, is especially known for it, but there were others.
You’re right, I had read about that as well (iirc it was clearly demonstrated with some photos from the Petersburg trenches). But still, the part about stomach shots seems plausible to me, it certainly must have been a horrible way to die.
I know a lot of people in the military always like to point out the unrealistic shots. For instance, quite often the men are too close together, in order to make the shot more a visual experience, but this unrealistic because it would have been too easy to ambush them. And they would have been trained to know that. Thus, most realistic war movies tend to be unrealistic.
I laughed uproariously, when they tried to pass off Vin Diesel as an Italian-American in “Saving Private Ryan.” Surely, he would have been driving supply trucks in the black regiment.
The most obviously pernicious monuments are those that are designed to have geographic spread. The Lynching Museum in Montgomery is a special case. It hosts monuments which are meant to shame 800 counties into accepting lynching monuments. The replicas are already built and on display. It is like something biological, giving birth to 800 eggs. Some have already been transplanted.
What is really funny is that it hosts more than 800 jars from the sites where black lynchings took place. It really evokes Dracula shipping in his Transylvanian soil. I might add many were likely murderers and rapists, and there are no monuments to the many obviously innocent whites killed by crowds of blacks.Replies: @reiner Tor, @DFH
Do they commemorate the lynchings of obvious criminals, paedophiles, rapists and murderers there?
One case I remember was a black boy last seen playing with a white girl who was murdered. He had her bicycle (which I think was a recent gift) hidden at his house.
I feel comfortable saying there are probably many more based on the many cases of "injustice" that liberals push. The Central Park Five. Some black GI in Europe during WW2 who tried to rape a woman who was only saved by the lock on her door. Mathew Shepard (who was not black but gay), and killed over drugs by gay blacks or something. And now there's Jussie Smollett.Replies: @DFH
I listened to some new music. First, the big surprise: last year I bought a double CD compilation of Krzysztof Penderecki’s music with the title “A Portrait of Krzysztof Penderecki,” and a box set with all his symphonies and some other compositions. There was some overlap: the double CD contained his First Symphony and a couple other compositions (the Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, supposedly his most famous work, was on both). Now last year I listened to the double CD, and it contained atonal unlistenable music, so I pretty much gave up on the supposedly greatest living Polish composer. However, it turns out that the double CD contained only his early compositions. Later he turned to a post-Romantic, almost Brucknerian idiom. His symphonies after the Second are in that style, and I liked them all, especially the Second, Fourth and Seventh. So in my eyes he joined the ranks of the great Polish composers. Now I put Lutoslawski on the list of composers to check out.
I have now listened to one of the pieces proposed by Dmitry (Vespers by Rachmaninoff), and it’s great. Thanks for the recommendation, Dmitry!
I also listened to Miloslav Kabelac (his symphonies only, I only found his Seventh slightly subpar, but maybe over time I’ll come around to like it), also a great composer.
If you listen on CD, now I recommend listen to Rachmaninov's Vespers in live concert. (It's something which benefits a lot from live sound).
Which movies would be those realistic war movies ?
I suppose Full metal jacket could be popular...but that isn't even meant to be an anti-war movie as far as I can tell.Replies: @reiner Tor
I’m not a movie aficionado, so I’ll only name a few I have seen.
The Thin Red Line
Jarhead (it even shows how a US marine didn’t even get to shoot his rifle in Kuwait in 1991)
Black Hawk Down
Das Boot
I don’t know if any of them were really realistic, nor if they were intended as anti-war. But they certainly did show war to be horrible. Yet… I can relate to people who somehow are still attracted to war. In part precisely because of the horrors. War is the highest level of human effort, when a large organized human group tries to destroy another large organized human group with all its efforts. It’s not a coincidence that technology advances usually not because of Dmitry’s motivating science and technology museums, but because of war, when society puts in the collective effort. Even in peacetime during arms races.
"Das Boot" seemed more like an adventure story to me, apart from the somewhat depressing ending it seemed more like an exciting experience than anything truly terrible.
As for "Black Hawk Down"...a heroic last stand of mostly white Americans, gunning down hundreds of Somalis in the process, that's almost like an alt-right fantasy.
Maybe movies are just inherently limited as a medium in their depiction of war.
As for the attraction of war, sure, on some level I understand that as well. Not just the fantasies of manly comradeship in combat, but also more generally...the vision of a collective effort where everybody does his or her part for victory is very attractive to nationalists after all.
I still wouldn't want to be in one though.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor, @songbird
I meant movies which show people gutted and dying gruesome deaths, as Dmitry proposed.
Yes, and the movie Der Untergang (Downfall) compressed a ten minute phone conversation (when Hitler finds out that the Russians are already in the Berlin suburbs) into three sentences, and they moved the date ahead one day to Hitler’s birthday for artistic effect (in reality it was not until April 21, 1945, when the Soviet artillery started shelling the area of the Reich Chancellery, which according to Dmitry and Melanf was an ugly building). The Tiger tank in one of the scenes is… something, but not a Tiger for sure. But it’s still a realistic movie.
The Thin Red Line
Jarhead (it even shows how a US marine didn’t even get to shoot his rifle in Kuwait in 1991)
Black Hawk Down
Das Boot
I don’t know if any of them were really realistic, nor if they were intended as anti-war. But they certainly did show war to be horrible. Yet... I can relate to people who somehow are still attracted to war. In part precisely because of the horrors. War is the highest level of human effort, when a large organized human group tries to destroy another large organized human group with all its efforts. It’s not a coincidence that technology advances usually not because of Dmitry’s motivating science and technology museums, but because of war, when society puts in the collective effort. Even in peacetime during arms races.Replies: @German_reader
I’ve only seen “Black Hawk Down” and “Das Boot”, and tbh, war didn’t seem that horrible to me in them.
“Das Boot” seemed more like an adventure story to me, apart from the somewhat depressing ending it seemed more like an exciting experience than anything truly terrible.
As for “Black Hawk Down”…a heroic last stand of mostly white Americans, gunning down hundreds of Somalis in the process, that’s almost like an alt-right fantasy.
Maybe movies are just inherently limited as a medium in their depiction of war.
As for the attraction of war, sure, on some level I understand that as well. Not just the fantasies of manly comradeship in combat, but also more generally…the vision of a collective effort where everybody does his or her part for victory is very attractive to nationalists after all.
I still wouldn’t want to be in one though.
As to those black monuments in Europe, I wish someone would build a drone that would drop thermite on them, or otherwise safely melt them into blobs. They are meant as a signal and should be turned into another.
Is the Pacific war really remembered all that much in the US anymore? I don't get the impression it plays much of a role in WW2 remembrance, apart from the endless discussions about the atomic bombings.Replies: @songbird
I want to go back to the time when they made souvenirs from the burnt bodies of kamikaze pilots, and one could say “Jap” without censure. Odd how it has become a pejorative – highlights how transformed the US has become.
You joked about the new black monuments in Europe. I think the way they are talked about is so disturbing: it is always implied they are the first of many. It really highlights the analogy to flags – its about turf and who rules it.
The absolute worst one must be in Copenhagen. “I am Queen Mary.” It is a 23 foot tall statue of negress sitting on one of those peacock thrones. Peacock thrones were originally popularized by being on a poster of some black militant in the US. Nothing to do with Africa, but the throne was put in the Black Panther movie (or at least on the poster – I have not seen the movie.). In one hand she has a killing implement which she probably would have used to kill white women and children, if successful. In another a torch for burning stuff down. Fortunately, the rebellion was crushed and its leaders put in prison.
It happened in the Virgin Islands, long after slavery ended. The choice of rhetoric highlights the beautiful houses of Copenhagen built supposedly from the profit of slaves. It’s about Africans kicking the door into Europe down and pushing their way in, nothing else. The only way it could be worse if the torch was a real flame, from which future rioting blacks in Copenhagen could light their torches.
You joked about the new black monuments in Europe. I think the way they are talked about is so disturbing: it is always implied they are the first of many. It really highlights the analogy to flags - its about turf and who rules it.
The absolute worst one must be in Copenhagen. "I am Queen Mary." It is a 23 foot tall statue of negress sitting on one of those peacock thrones. Peacock thrones were originally popularized by being on a poster of some black militant in the US. Nothing to do with Africa, but the throne was put in the Black Panther movie (or at least on the poster - I have not seen the movie.). In one hand she has a killing implement which she probably would have used to kill white women and children, if successful. In another a torch for burning stuff down. Fortunately, the rebellion was crushed and its leaders put in prison.
It happened in the Virgin Islands, long after slavery ended. The choice of rhetoric highlights the beautiful houses of Copenhagen built supposedly from the profit of slaves. It's about Africans kicking the door into Europe down and pushing their way in, nothing else. The only way it could be worse if the torch was a real flame, from which future rioting blacks in Copenhagen could light their torches.Replies: @German_reader, @DFH
No, I didn’t joke about it. I actually think it’s ominous. It’s a statement of power, like just all those attempts to write black Africans as important characters into ancient and medieval European history. It’s meant as preparation for a Europe with a very substantial African-descended population.
"Das Boot" seemed more like an adventure story to me, apart from the somewhat depressing ending it seemed more like an exciting experience than anything truly terrible.
As for "Black Hawk Down"...a heroic last stand of mostly white Americans, gunning down hundreds of Somalis in the process, that's almost like an alt-right fantasy.
Maybe movies are just inherently limited as a medium in their depiction of war.
As for the attraction of war, sure, on some level I understand that as well. Not just the fantasies of manly comradeship in combat, but also more generally...the vision of a collective effort where everybody does his or her part for victory is very attractive to nationalists after all.
I still wouldn't want to be in one though.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor, @songbird
Another example is the Russian movie Chistilishche (Purgatory), parts of which were shown during a lecture of a military historian in Hungary. Among the audience there were active duty military personnel, and I remember all present liked it. It’s pretty horroristic, and there is little positive about it. Soldiers are sent in without adequate equipment, training, motivation, to die in a cold and alien place fighting savages.
"Das Boot" seemed more like an adventure story to me, apart from the somewhat depressing ending it seemed more like an exciting experience than anything truly terrible.
As for "Black Hawk Down"...a heroic last stand of mostly white Americans, gunning down hundreds of Somalis in the process, that's almost like an alt-right fantasy.
Maybe movies are just inherently limited as a medium in their depiction of war.
As for the attraction of war, sure, on some level I understand that as well. Not just the fantasies of manly comradeship in combat, but also more generally...the vision of a collective effort where everybody does his or her part for victory is very attractive to nationalists after all.
I still wouldn't want to be in one though.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor, @songbird
No sane person over the age of thirty would want to. I have only read about war, and heard what old people (and some others who were in contemporary conflicts, though they were less talkative than the old ones) told me, but it’s pretty obvious that you don’t want it for anyone you love.
War museum, is not anti-war – it should simply be accurate and unpleasant.
It should show people the most notable consequences of war.
Even war museums which are based too much on people who survive the wars, are quite inaccurate. Survivors are the lucky selection of people, from those who were involved in war.
Strongest result of war, are experiences like being shot in the stomach and bleeding painfully somewhere in the ground until you die. People who were most impacted by war and experienced the most significant consequences of a war, are generally not living at the end.
Then we later hear from the lucky ones, who survived – as if you hear only testimonials about a casino, from people who won, or at least survived with their savings, and those who lost their fortune, have been eliminated from discussing it.
It can reflect on results of the war, which can sometimes be positive or important.
Results of sacrifice in the Great Patriotic War – freedom for millions of people – are a lot more positive, than results of idiotic conflicts like Russo-Japanese War, Afghan War, Vietnam War, etc .
So there is no generic answer to the question, of whether people should be “inspired to fight”.
However, inspired to fight for your village or city, people do not need motivation – there is natural motivation.
Inspired to fight to conquer some foreign territory, or for some abstract ideology – it is often better people are not too inspired.
When they could still remember more unpleasant aspects of war, citizens of European countries like UK were quite lucky their government was clever enough to avoid fighting in Vietnam (after France left).
NATO managed to avoid (even what would have been mostly costless aerial) intervention in Syria, partly because of the public’s unpleasant memories of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan.
On the other hand, glorifying military, does not directly increase fighting ability. Mussolini’s Italy, was glorifying military more than America, before Second World War. Yet Mussolini’s army was ineffective in combat. Arab and Muslim countries usually glorify military, but they often lose wars. Organization and technology level of the society, is much more relevant to its abilities to fight.
There is an issue of “military readiness” as a result of too much pacifism. However, with a couple of years preparation, a now pacifist society like Japan, would become more combat effective, than the complete Muslim world – despite the latter’s glorification of millitary.
Germany is a much better example for terminal pacifism.
"Das Boot" seemed more like an adventure story to me, apart from the somewhat depressing ending it seemed more like an exciting experience than anything truly terrible.
As for "Black Hawk Down"...a heroic last stand of mostly white Americans, gunning down hundreds of Somalis in the process, that's almost like an alt-right fantasy.
Maybe movies are just inherently limited as a medium in their depiction of war.
As for the attraction of war, sure, on some level I understand that as well. Not just the fantasies of manly comradeship in combat, but also more generally...the vision of a collective effort where everybody does his or her part for victory is very attractive to nationalists after all.
I still wouldn't want to be in one though.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor, @songbird
It’s funny: I have heard Africans also enjoy watching “Black Hawk Down” because blacks kill whites. You wouldn’t think they would enjoy it because they are getting worse, but they do.
As to those black monuments in Europe, I wish someone would build a drone that would drop thermite on them, or otherwise safely melt them into blobs. They are meant as a signal and should be turned into another.
So there is no generic answer to the question, of whether people should be "inspired to fight". However, inspired to fight for your village or city, people do not need motivation - there is natural motivation. Inspired to fight to conquer some foreign territory, or for some abstract ideology - it is often better people are not too inspired. When they could still remember more unpleasant aspects of war, citizens of European countries like UK were quite lucky their government was clever enough to avoid fighting in Vietnam (after France left). NATO managed to avoid (even what would have been mostly costless aerial) intervention in Syria, partly because of the public's unpleasant memories of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand, glorifying military, does not directly increase fighting ability. Mussolini's Italy, was glorifying military more than America, before Second World War. Yet Mussolini's army was ineffective in combat. Arab and Muslim countries usually glorify military, but they often lose wars. Organization and technology level of the society, is much more relevant to its abilities to fight. There is an issue of "military readiness" as a result of too much pacifism. However, with a couple of years preparation, a now pacifist society like Japan, would become more combat effective, than the complete Muslim world - despite the latter's glorification of millitary.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor, @DFH
Japan has a fairly good navy and air force. Of course one doesn’t know how effective they would be in combat, but they’re certainly well-trained and well-equipped.
Germany is a much better example for terminal pacifism.
I certainly knew of him before 2016, and I suppose many other commenters here did as well.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Anonymous
OK but Takimag and American Conservative are still fringe publications (Takimag especially so); a person could be a regular contributor to both outlets and still not have name recognition amongst 99.9% of Americans (in fact, this is probably true of most contributors to those outlets).
Dmitry’s point is well taken: when the US media wants to demonize some ideology or belief, they invariably seek out the fringiest, most off-the-wall “representative” they can find, and publicize him as though he were the Pope handing out infallible papal bulls to his millions of followers. Richard Spencer has nothing to do with Trump; most (essentially all) Trump supporters haven’t heard of Richard Spencer, they don’t know what his beliefs are and even if they did they wouldn’t care. Spencer got publicized because of the way he looks and the rhetoric he uses, both of which immediately discredit him to most normal people; you can’t publicize Jared Taylor, for example, because he’s too normal looking, and his demeanor is too normal, and that might cause people to actually listen to what he has to say.
So there is no generic answer to the question, of whether people should be "inspired to fight". However, inspired to fight for your village or city, people do not need motivation - there is natural motivation. Inspired to fight to conquer some foreign territory, or for some abstract ideology - it is often better people are not too inspired. When they could still remember more unpleasant aspects of war, citizens of European countries like UK were quite lucky their government was clever enough to avoid fighting in Vietnam (after France left). NATO managed to avoid (even what would have been mostly costless aerial) intervention in Syria, partly because of the public's unpleasant memories of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand, glorifying military, does not directly increase fighting ability. Mussolini's Italy, was glorifying military more than America, before Second World War. Yet Mussolini's army was ineffective in combat. Arab and Muslim countries usually glorify military, but they often lose wars. Organization and technology level of the society, is much more relevant to its abilities to fight. There is an issue of "military readiness" as a result of too much pacifism. However, with a couple of years preparation, a now pacifist society like Japan, would become more combat effective, than the complete Muslim world - despite the latter's glorification of millitary.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor, @DFH
Both are relevant.
But I did not compare countries, my point was different: in any, absolutely any country in the world, beauties make up a relatively small percentage of girls. Those who (as a result of viewing photos on the Internet) think that all Swedish girls look like Ingrid Bergman/Anita Ekberg will be bitterly disappointed if they come to Sweden.
This also applies to Russia/ Poland/ Japan/China any country in the worldReplies: @Dmitry
Sure, but I was interested about your point about aging.
I’m sure you’re right although I haven’t been in Sweden. So I was interested when you said women are aging especially badly. It’s not what you would expect from general conditions of life there.
Dmitry's point is well taken: when the US media wants to demonize some ideology or belief, they invariably seek out the fringiest, most off-the-wall "representative" they can find, and publicize him as though he were the Pope handing out infallible papal bulls to his millions of followers. Richard Spencer has nothing to do with Trump; most (essentially all) Trump supporters haven't heard of Richard Spencer, they don't know what his beliefs are and even if they did they wouldn't care. Spencer got publicized because of the way he looks and the rhetoric he uses, both of which immediately discredit him to most normal people; you can't publicize Jared Taylor, for example, because he's too normal looking, and his demeanor is too normal, and that might cause people to actually listen to what he has to say.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH
Thanks.
My point about Richard Spencer, is not that he is completely an invented hoax (I’m sure he existed before 2015, and perhaps even wrote his ideas in some esoteric website).
But why when I search for his name, with the settings before 2015 – you find instead : Richard Spencer, a corporate lawyer; Richard Spencer, an economist;, etc?
Richard Spencer, the American nationalist, was less relevant, according to the search engine, than the ordinary professionals – lawyers, economists – who are called “Richard Spencer”.
Suddenly, in 2016 (although there are some preparatory articles in 2015), the media created him (and internet search results reflect this).
Media cast him and placed him on the stage for a simple reason, of course, which was to damage Trump by association in the 2016 President’s election.
American media simply saw Spencer can “play the character villain” (wearing a special haircut and sunglasses to play this character), and introducing him would be a clever and amusing way to lower the votes for Trump, and perhaps also generate some clickbait for themselves.
Of course, forensics wasn’t well-developed back then, so I don’t feel comfortable saying “obvious.” But I will go so far as to say there are at least a few “probables. ” Or put another way, the best suspects at the time. It is a murky area. We have the concept of innocent until proven guilty, but it still seems in very poor taste to put up a monument in some of these cases.
One case I remember was a black boy last seen playing with a white girl who was murdered. He had her bicycle (which I think was a recent gift) hidden at his house.
I feel comfortable saying there are probably many more based on the many cases of “injustice” that liberals push. The Central Park Five. Some black GI in Europe during WW2 who tried to rape a woman who was only saved by the lock on her door. Mathew Shepard (who was not black but gay), and killed over drugs by gay blacks or something. And now there’s Jussie Smollett.
I didn’t say that. I just wrote that the Minister in the photo looks better than most Swedish women of this age. Nothing more.
I have now listened to one of the pieces proposed by Dmitry (Vespers by Rachmaninoff), and it’s great. Thanks for the recommendation, Dmitry!
I also listened to Miloslav Kabelac (his symphonies only, I only found his Seventh slightly subpar, but maybe over time I’ll come around to like it), also a great composer.Replies: @Dmitry
You’re welcome.
If you listen on CD, now I recommend listen to Rachmaninov’s Vespers in live concert. (It’s something which benefits a lot from live sound).
In Hungary he became the center of a mainstream controversy in October 2014. Though they mostly just wrote about the conference, his person was not so important anyway. And of course it was only used to smear Orbán for letting it happen (which was then changed to Orbán banning a conference like a dictator for some journalists), though it was a short-lived issue, only maybe a couple of weeks.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/why-hungary-ethnically-cleansed-richard-spencer/
You joked about the new black monuments in Europe. I think the way they are talked about is so disturbing: it is always implied they are the first of many. It really highlights the analogy to flags - its about turf and who rules it.
The absolute worst one must be in Copenhagen. "I am Queen Mary." It is a 23 foot tall statue of negress sitting on one of those peacock thrones. Peacock thrones were originally popularized by being on a poster of some black militant in the US. Nothing to do with Africa, but the throne was put in the Black Panther movie (or at least on the poster - I have not seen the movie.). In one hand she has a killing implement which she probably would have used to kill white women and children, if successful. In another a torch for burning stuff down. Fortunately, the rebellion was crushed and its leaders put in prison.
It happened in the Virgin Islands, long after slavery ended. The choice of rhetoric highlights the beautiful houses of Copenhagen built supposedly from the profit of slaves. It's about Africans kicking the door into Europe down and pushing their way in, nothing else. The only way it could be worse if the torch was a real flame, from which future rioting blacks in Copenhagen could light their torches.Replies: @German_reader, @DFH
That sounds like just what the new EU committee on ‘Afrophobia’ will be doing
The ubiquitous diversity officers and the growing diversity bureaucracy will keep pushing for ever more extreme measures until the system is abolished. The vast Jewish lobby groups and holocaust memorial bureaucracies (not all of them Jewish) will keep pushing holocaust remembrance to ever more absurd heights.
This also points to the impossibility of a reasonable compromise.Replies: @German_reader
So there is no generic answer to the question, of whether people should be "inspired to fight". However, inspired to fight for your village or city, people do not need motivation - there is natural motivation. Inspired to fight to conquer some foreign territory, or for some abstract ideology - it is often better people are not too inspired. When they could still remember more unpleasant aspects of war, citizens of European countries like UK were quite lucky their government was clever enough to avoid fighting in Vietnam (after France left). NATO managed to avoid (even what would have been mostly costless aerial) intervention in Syria, partly because of the public's unpleasant memories of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand, glorifying military, does not directly increase fighting ability. Mussolini's Italy, was glorifying military more than America, before Second World War. Yet Mussolini's army was ineffective in combat. Arab and Muslim countries usually glorify military, but they often lose wars. Organization and technology level of the society, is much more relevant to its abilities to fight. There is an issue of "military readiness" as a result of too much pacifism. However, with a couple of years preparation, a now pacifist society like Japan, would become more combat effective, than the complete Muslim world - despite the latter's glorification of millitary.Replies: @German_reader, @reiner Tor, @DFH
War museums are for looking at tanks, planes, rockets and Nazi memorabilia
Dmitry's point is well taken: when the US media wants to demonize some ideology or belief, they invariably seek out the fringiest, most off-the-wall "representative" they can find, and publicize him as though he were the Pope handing out infallible papal bulls to his millions of followers. Richard Spencer has nothing to do with Trump; most (essentially all) Trump supporters haven't heard of Richard Spencer, they don't know what his beliefs are and even if they did they wouldn't care. Spencer got publicized because of the way he looks and the rhetoric he uses, both of which immediately discredit him to most normal people; you can't publicize Jared Taylor, for example, because he's too normal looking, and his demeanor is too normal, and that might cause people to actually listen to what he has to say.Replies: @Dmitry, @DFH
I can think of tons of people worse than Spencer who I would promote if that was my goal. Spencer is normal-looking, articulate and doesn’t flaunt bad-optics symbols or words
One case I remember was a black boy last seen playing with a white girl who was murdered. He had her bicycle (which I think was a recent gift) hidden at his house.
I feel comfortable saying there are probably many more based on the many cases of "injustice" that liberals push. The Central Park Five. Some black GI in Europe during WW2 who tried to rape a woman who was only saved by the lock on her door. Mathew Shepard (who was not black but gay), and killed over drugs by gay blacks or something. And now there's Jussie Smollett.Replies: @DFH
Or Leo Frank
Another thing related to the increasing Africanisation of Europe is how prominent black culture is, especially black American culture. For instance, I saw last year Black Klansman, some film about a black coldcaller with a white voice and an openly black nationalist film for teengares called ‘the Hate U Give’ prominently promoted. A cinema near me has a huge advert outside with only blacks in for a comedy made in Britain and (I assume) aimed at blacks.
One lesson of the holocaust is the creation of a permanent bureaucracy for dealing with a problem will make the system constantly more radical. The Nazis mandated the appointment of a Jew specialist in each large organization. They kept producing ever more elaborate regulations, prohibiting Jews from owning pure-bread dogs or bicycles, while the number of Jews (and so the size of the supposed problem) was getting smaller.
The ubiquitous diversity officers and the growing diversity bureaucracy will keep pushing for ever more extreme measures until the system is abolished. The vast Jewish lobby groups and holocaust memorial bureaucracies (not all of them Jewish) will keep pushing holocaust remembrance to ever more absurd heights.
This also points to the impossibility of a reasonable compromise.
It's clear that the dominant part of the elites in Western countries is intent on continuing their utopian project. And a non-trivial part of the public supports it as well.
The question is how those of us who are opposed to it should react. Or whether we should even bother to act at all anymore. Maybe there is nothing left but to observe and wait for the inevitable disaster.
Karlin wrote about it a couple years ago, I think it’s a good blog post:
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/why-hungary-ethnically-cleansed-richard-spencer/
The ubiquitous diversity officers and the growing diversity bureaucracy will keep pushing for ever more extreme measures until the system is abolished. The vast Jewish lobby groups and holocaust memorial bureaucracies (not all of them Jewish) will keep pushing holocaust remembrance to ever more absurd heights.
This also points to the impossibility of a reasonable compromise.Replies: @German_reader
I agree. It’s only ever more repression, more censorship, more immigration, more multiculturalism.
It’s clear that the dominant part of the elites in Western countries is intent on continuing their utopian project. And a non-trivial part of the public supports it as well.
The question is how those of us who are opposed to it should react. Or whether we should even bother to act at all anymore. Maybe there is nothing left but to observe and wait for the inevitable disaster.
This is interesting. I know there is nothing you can do about it and this is just the level of enthusiasm your own positions inspire you with. Its not under your control. I’m not blaming you.
But this is why you lost.
They find their values so inspiring that they will settle for nothing less than total victory.
You hold your values so lightly that you’d be happy with a reasonable compromise.
Its not under our control. Certain values are only capable of inspiring lukewarm enthusiasm. Other values can inspire total dedication.
Its just interesting to objectively observe these social dynamics.
One side is more obsessed with it than the other.Replies: @AaronB
Rammstein did some genius take on this in recent video.
When did Progressives become Pro-GROSS-ives?
But this is why you lost.
They find their values so inspiring that they will settle for nothing less than total victory.
You hold your values so lightly that you'd be happy with a reasonable compromise.
Its not under our control. Certain values are only capable of inspiring lukewarm enthusiasm. Other values can inspire total dedication.
Its just interesting to objectively observe these social dynamics.Replies: @Mitleser
This is not about values, but power.
One side is more obsessed with it than the other.
During the West's imperial expansion phase, everyone believed Western values were superior and wanted to see them triumph over the whole world. Many Americans today still believe that.
There is no standing still. There is either expansion or contraction.
Reasonable compromise is defensive, not expansive. The side that adopts it will be extinguished by someone more vigorous.
Humans have a feeling that we are on a path to something better and greater, that we have a glorious destiny. People who tap into this win out over people who don't have such a vision.
For 500 years the West was convinced that its culture of Reason was improving mankind and moving along towards a glorious destiny. From the beginning, some thinkers had their misgivings, but the majority believed in it. World War One shattered this dream. In truth by the late 19th century serious doubts about the ability of Reason to create something better out of mankind were becoming widespread.
But the source of 500 years of Western vitality was the belief that Reason will make something better out of mankind.
When that faith was lost, the West collapsed.
The Left today believes it is on the path to making something better out of mankind. The sentiment expressed in a "reasonable compromise" has no belief in bettering mankind. Therefore it has no chance of success.
The West will become energetic and vital once again when it comes up with a new vision for bettering and improving our condition.
The old vision of Pure Reason is dead - what will take its place?
The Leftist vision, such as it is, is clearly failing. People are beginning to doubt that it is the path towards the betterment of our human condition.
But in the meantime its the only game in town.
My observations are merely objective reflections on reality. Take them or leave them as you like.Replies: @German_reader, @AaronB, @Dmitry
Banned by Facebook.
Facebook works with Zionists to kill bushels of Muslims but then covers up the real crime by pretending to protect Muslims from Joke Memes.
As Simple_Pseudonymic_Handle put it perfectly: “The first rule of waging religious war on Islam is you do not talk about waging the religious war on Islam.”
One side is more obsessed with it than the other.Replies: @AaronB
Values and power are intertwined. When you are really inspired by your values you want to see them completely triumph everywhere. You think that’s destiny.
During the West’s imperial expansion phase, everyone believed Western values were superior and wanted to see them triumph over the whole world. Many Americans today still believe that.
There is no standing still. There is either expansion or contraction.
Reasonable compromise is defensive, not expansive. The side that adopts it will be extinguished by someone more vigorous.
Humans have a feeling that we are on a path to something better and greater, that we have a glorious destiny. People who tap into this win out over people who don’t have such a vision.
For 500 years the West was convinced that its culture of Reason was improving mankind and moving along towards a glorious destiny. From the beginning, some thinkers had their misgivings, but the majority believed in it. World War One shattered this dream. In truth by the late 19th century serious doubts about the ability of Reason to create something better out of mankind were becoming widespread.
But the source of 500 years of Western vitality was the belief that Reason will make something better out of mankind.
When that faith was lost, the West collapsed.
The Left today believes it is on the path to making something better out of mankind. The sentiment expressed in a “reasonable compromise” has no belief in bettering mankind. Therefore it has no chance of success.
The West will become energetic and vital once again when it comes up with a new vision for bettering and improving our condition.
The old vision of Pure Reason is dead – what will take its place?
The Leftist vision, such as it is, is clearly failing. People are beginning to doubt that it is the path towards the betterment of our human condition.
But in the meantime its the only game in town.
My observations are merely objective reflections on reality. Take them or leave them as you like.
What else do humans "value"?
And human flourishing and betterment - an increase in well being and health - is obviously an increase in human power.
God, I've become a Nietzschean! Kill me now.
But the main problem with Nietzsche was his childish and restricted understanding of what power is, and his focus on its negative forms.
Obviously an increase in cooperation and benevolence increases human well being and ability to thrive as a species, and thus human power. But Nietzsche could not see that. He did not have a comprehensive enough view of humans flourishing as a species. Some mental defect kept him preoccupied with negative power, and he failed to see how this results in a lower form of human flourishing, or even chaos.
Typical funny conspiracy theory is that the possibility of our "synthetic a priori" knowledge, is proof that we're living in a virtual reality simulation. I can see how this would explain why we can so easily study physics, and understand the world abstractly with a pencil and paper. It would simply be like someone inferring the machine code, from examining a high-level programming language operating on it. Of course, such conspiracy theory just pushes the mystery back to another dimension (in which a demiuge who is outside the simulation has built some machine, to run your simulation) in the typical gnostic fashion. But it should still show you how strange the power of "logic and reason" actually is.Replies: @AaronB, @utu
During the West's imperial expansion phase, everyone believed Western values were superior and wanted to see them triumph over the whole world. Many Americans today still believe that.
There is no standing still. There is either expansion or contraction.
Reasonable compromise is defensive, not expansive. The side that adopts it will be extinguished by someone more vigorous.
Humans have a feeling that we are on a path to something better and greater, that we have a glorious destiny. People who tap into this win out over people who don't have such a vision.
For 500 years the West was convinced that its culture of Reason was improving mankind and moving along towards a glorious destiny. From the beginning, some thinkers had their misgivings, but the majority believed in it. World War One shattered this dream. In truth by the late 19th century serious doubts about the ability of Reason to create something better out of mankind were becoming widespread.
But the source of 500 years of Western vitality was the belief that Reason will make something better out of mankind.
When that faith was lost, the West collapsed.
The Left today believes it is on the path to making something better out of mankind. The sentiment expressed in a "reasonable compromise" has no belief in bettering mankind. Therefore it has no chance of success.
The West will become energetic and vital once again when it comes up with a new vision for bettering and improving our condition.
The old vision of Pure Reason is dead - what will take its place?
The Leftist vision, such as it is, is clearly failing. People are beginning to doubt that it is the path towards the betterment of our human condition.
But in the meantime its the only game in town.
My observations are merely objective reflections on reality. Take them or leave them as you like.Replies: @German_reader, @AaronB, @Dmitry
Do you think it’s a virtue to be a mindless zealot, a fanatic?
You do realize that you’re making the case for a militant counter-movement like the historical facists?
Second of all, to call an attitude that makes people survive and thrive mindless, and an attitude that leads to surrender and death intelligent, is to stretch those terms beyond meaning.
Surely, whatever helps one survive and flourish is the very definition of intelligence.
And if you look at how being a "mindless fanatic" became a pejorative, it was precisely because people who thought that way survived and flourished less well than Europeans who embraced Reason and its gifts.
Reality and results always have the last word.
No, I am not making the case either for militant fascists or for mindless fanaticism.
I am making the case for having a roadmap towards human betterment and improvement. This need not be mindless. Reason should surely play a role in developing it. True rationality - as in, what really works, not what "seems" intelligent. The ruthless empiricism of science at its best, which accepts reality as it actually is, not as it "should" be. Such empiricism would never call what plainly works "stupid".
I have watched some of the Biden clips. Mostly him touching young girls. Some wives. I honestly winced a few times, and I think most of them were from C-SPAN. He did it in front of TV cameras.
He’s done. No way he could win. On a Creepy scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest. I’d say he’s an 8, and I’d only put him that low because there are people like Michael Jackson.
Probably politicians are naturally creepier because they are more extroverted and thus tend to have low impulse control.
During the West's imperial expansion phase, everyone believed Western values were superior and wanted to see them triumph over the whole world. Many Americans today still believe that.
There is no standing still. There is either expansion or contraction.
Reasonable compromise is defensive, not expansive. The side that adopts it will be extinguished by someone more vigorous.
Humans have a feeling that we are on a path to something better and greater, that we have a glorious destiny. People who tap into this win out over people who don't have such a vision.
For 500 years the West was convinced that its culture of Reason was improving mankind and moving along towards a glorious destiny. From the beginning, some thinkers had their misgivings, but the majority believed in it. World War One shattered this dream. In truth by the late 19th century serious doubts about the ability of Reason to create something better out of mankind were becoming widespread.
But the source of 500 years of Western vitality was the belief that Reason will make something better out of mankind.
When that faith was lost, the West collapsed.
The Left today believes it is on the path to making something better out of mankind. The sentiment expressed in a "reasonable compromise" has no belief in bettering mankind. Therefore it has no chance of success.
The West will become energetic and vital once again when it comes up with a new vision for bettering and improving our condition.
The old vision of Pure Reason is dead - what will take its place?
The Leftist vision, such as it is, is clearly failing. People are beginning to doubt that it is the path towards the betterment of our human condition.
But in the meantime its the only game in town.
My observations are merely objective reflections on reality. Take them or leave them as you like.Replies: @German_reader, @AaronB, @Dmitry
And values = what you think conduces to human flourishing and betterment.
What else do humans “value”?
And human flourishing and betterment – an increase in well being and health – is obviously an increase in human power.
God, I’ve become a Nietzschean! Kill me now.
But the main problem with Nietzsche was his childish and restricted understanding of what power is, and his focus on its negative forms.
Obviously an increase in cooperation and benevolence increases human well being and ability to thrive as a species, and thus human power. But Nietzsche could not see that. He did not have a comprehensive enough view of humans flourishing as a species. Some mental defect kept him preoccupied with negative power, and he failed to see how this results in a lower form of human flourishing, or even chaos.
First of all, objectively observing that fanatics tend to win out over the lukewarm does not imply, as of yet, any value system. It is a mere observation of fact that any realist must accept.
Second of all, to call an attitude that makes people survive and thrive mindless, and an attitude that leads to surrender and death intelligent, is to stretch those terms beyond meaning.
Surely, whatever helps one survive and flourish is the very definition of intelligence.
And if you look at how being a “mindless fanatic” became a pejorative, it was precisely because people who thought that way survived and flourished less well than Europeans who embraced Reason and its gifts.
Reality and results always have the last word.
No, I am not making the case either for militant fascists or for mindless fanaticism.
I am making the case for having a roadmap towards human betterment and improvement. This need not be mindless. Reason should surely play a role in developing it. True rationality – as in, what really works, not what “seems” intelligent. The ruthless empiricism of science at its best, which accepts reality as it actually is, not as it “should” be. Such empiricism would never call what plainly works “stupid”.
@GR
Many inspiring visions of human destiny involved an increase in cooperation and benevolence and were not militant or fascist.
And one can construct a roadmap towards human flourishing that involves limited aims that take cognizance of human frailty, that encourage epistemic humility and skepticism, limited local patriotism, organic food, and specifically rejects the claims of science towards total knowledge and absolute control, or universal indiscriminate benevolence as the best way to ensure peace and cooperation.
Empiricism, and the lessons of reality, subject to rational analysis, should be the rule.
Nassim Taleb, as well as certain ancient thinkers have this roadmap.
The topic is wider and more interesting than you think, and possibilities abound.
The key thing is to have a vision of human betterment and flourishing.
During the West's imperial expansion phase, everyone believed Western values were superior and wanted to see them triumph over the whole world. Many Americans today still believe that.
There is no standing still. There is either expansion or contraction.
Reasonable compromise is defensive, not expansive. The side that adopts it will be extinguished by someone more vigorous.
Humans have a feeling that we are on a path to something better and greater, that we have a glorious destiny. People who tap into this win out over people who don't have such a vision.
For 500 years the West was convinced that its culture of Reason was improving mankind and moving along towards a glorious destiny. From the beginning, some thinkers had their misgivings, but the majority believed in it. World War One shattered this dream. In truth by the late 19th century serious doubts about the ability of Reason to create something better out of mankind were becoming widespread.
But the source of 500 years of Western vitality was the belief that Reason will make something better out of mankind.
When that faith was lost, the West collapsed.
The Left today believes it is on the path to making something better out of mankind. The sentiment expressed in a "reasonable compromise" has no belief in bettering mankind. Therefore it has no chance of success.
The West will become energetic and vital once again when it comes up with a new vision for bettering and improving our condition.
The old vision of Pure Reason is dead - what will take its place?
The Leftist vision, such as it is, is clearly failing. People are beginning to doubt that it is the path towards the betterment of our human condition.
But in the meantime its the only game in town.
My observations are merely objective reflections on reality. Take them or leave them as you like.Replies: @German_reader, @AaronB, @Dmitry
Actual “reason” – not meaning just some “belief in Enlightenment values” – is a much more interesting and inescapable topic, because it reflects structure of the external to merely human world.
“Belief in Enlightenment values”, is just a symptom of our discovery of greater powers of reason than we previously believed. But those powers of reason exist independently of our discovery or belief in them.
Calculations with pencil and paper, determine whether the bridge across the river will be stable, or collapse. That ability of reason to access nature – and to be essentially the “cheat sheet” of external world – is not any “cultural” value.
And here is the real mystery you should be thinking about, and which people try to ignore or push away since the time of Pythagoras. Why can we access truth about the external world, through analytic tautologies like numbers and logical symbols? This should be impossible – as they should be only tautologies, or formal artificial systems in the mind.
Yet the external world, outside your mind, is following the same “artificial” logic and reason you can access inside your mind.
Typical funny conspiracy theory is that the possibility of our “synthetic a priori” knowledge, is proof that we’re living in a virtual reality simulation.
I can see how this would explain why we can so easily study physics, and understand the world abstractly with a pencil and paper. It would simply be like someone inferring the machine code, from examining a high-level programming language operating on it.
Of course, such conspiracy theory just pushes the mystery back to another dimension (in which a demiuge who is outside the simulation has built some machine, to run your simulation) in the typical gnostic fashion. But it should still show you how strange the power of “logic and reason” actually is.
I believe someone called it the "strange unreasonableness of mathematics" or something like that - that numbers in our minds correspond to the outside world. We have no right to expect such a thing - but there it is.
And yes, this brings into question the very concept of a reality "out there". As I know you know, certain philosophical schools from certain geographical regions did not believe there was such a clear separation between "us" and "reality". Such a separation may be only a useful heuristic.
Another weird thing about reason is that if you follow any proposition long enough it contradicts itself. Kant demonstrated this. Yet in practical life, it doesn't matter. Reason does allow us to deal with the external world successfully.
Whatever that external world is.
Back to numbers, it was a tremendously successful thought experiment - investigating the external world only through numbers. People basically said - let's see how far we can get if we only look at numbers. We got very far. And we still have more to go. But its also time for the next stage.
First of all mathematics began as an empirical science (counting goats and measuring land plots) and its abstraction was constructed just like abstraction of physics was constructed later with the help of mathematics. The laws of algebra like associative law, commutative law and distributive law were discovered empirically.
Physics does not predict anything. It describes. Physics is as tautological as mathematics once it is expressed in the language of mathematics. It is a mathematical language of physics that describes our observations. And if we want to be quantitative we engage mathematics and what is physics without quantitative description? So physics must be mathematics. There is no other option.
The abstract mathematics began to evolve and created new abstract structures but only small fraction of them have any usage in physics to describe some observations. There is a human process of pick and choose. The fact that some mathematical methods fit well in physical description is our choice. We reject abstractions that do not fit. Even on a very low level of high school physics a 2nd order polynomial gives you two solutions of which one you reject because it is not physical for some reason. You can derive Lorentz and Galileo transforms from group theory (first time it was done by Ignatowski in 1910) but it produces also a third solution which is nether Lorentz nor Galileo that is rejected because it did not find an application in physics.
One can overdo mathematics and impose it on physics and get into a trouble. Pythagoras created this whole system of Universe and its God based on integer numbers and their ratios and that was supposed to describe everything. And then his student Hippasus proved that the square root of two, i.e, the length of the diagonal of a square with sides equal to one unit can't be expressed as a ratio of two integers. He discovered an irrational number. For this fact supposedly he was drowned by Pythagoras followers and the knowledge of his discovery was suppressed because the whole physics of Pythagoras based on his mathematics was shattered.
Physics is very tautological. Pierre Duhem and Henri Poincare dealt with it arguing that any experiment that is constructed to prove or disprove something contains many hidden assumptions of existing theory and its mathematical structure so the outcome of being binary is predetermined, i.e, no new discovery could be possible from what already is implicitly imbedded in the structure of the theory that constructed the experiment.
Duhem's name is given to the underdetermination or Duhem–Quine thesis, which holds that for any given set of observations there is an innumerably large number of explanations. It is, in essence, the same as Hume's critique of induction: all three variants point at the fact that empirical evidence cannot force the choice of a theory or its revision.Replies: @Epigon, @Dmitry
Goal was to attack Trump, not Spencer (Spencer himself is of no political significance and his ideas were only useful to 2016 President’s election insofar as they could be used to damage political opponents by association with them).
Spencer was a non-famous and non-important person, with no influence and no job, whose internet search ranking was below people called “Richard Spencer” who had real jobs, like a corporate lawyer and an economist.
The media created Richard Spencer as a famous and significant villain in 2016 (and he intentionally played this character for they wanted, in the way he clothes himself, cuts his hair, etc), because he is a perfect, simple propaganda weapon they can associate with Trump, and therefore lose votes for Trump.
Actually existing, Richard Spencer seems more a marketing troll, than any “American nationalist leader”. He has children with a caucasian SJW woman , so his real life is less racist than of any, average normal (even the most liberal) people who almost all marry women from their own nationality. However, he looks like a villain from a film.
His wife is the Russian Nina Byzantina, no?
She’s part Georgian. Even though most Americans would probably just consider her Russian, I don’t think marrying a Georgian or Armenian would be considered that different from marrying a Greek or Serbian woman in modern America.
I think Dmitry is confusing her with Spencer's new American girlfriend who is a real SJW.Replies: @Dmitry
Typical funny conspiracy theory is that the possibility of our "synthetic a priori" knowledge, is proof that we're living in a virtual reality simulation. I can see how this would explain why we can so easily study physics, and understand the world abstractly with a pencil and paper. It would simply be like someone inferring the machine code, from examining a high-level programming language operating on it. Of course, such conspiracy theory just pushes the mystery back to another dimension (in which a demiuge who is outside the simulation has built some machine, to run your simulation) in the typical gnostic fashion. But it should still show you how strange the power of "logic and reason" actually is.Replies: @AaronB, @utu
I agree – the real empirical world is far more fascinating than our notions of what is “reasonable”. And uncannier.
I believe someone called it the “strange unreasonableness of mathematics” or something like that – that numbers in our minds correspond to the outside world. We have no right to expect such a thing – but there it is.
And yes, this brings into question the very concept of a reality “out there”. As I know you know, certain philosophical schools from certain geographical regions did not believe there was such a clear separation between “us” and “reality”. Such a separation may be only a useful heuristic.
Another weird thing about reason is that if you follow any proposition long enough it contradicts itself. Kant demonstrated this. Yet in practical life, it doesn’t matter. Reason does allow us to deal with the external world successfully.
Whatever that external world is.
Back to numbers, it was a tremendously successful thought experiment – investigating the external world only through numbers. People basically said – let’s see how far we can get if we only look at numbers. We got very far. And we still have more to go. But its also time for the next stage.
Kouprianova is a Duginist who supports Eurasian integration and reconciliation between the Red and White parts of Russian History (in Karlin’s terms “Soviet-Eurasianism”). Having too close ties with Central Asia is a poor idea but the most SJW belief she has is probably criticising Karlin’s belief in HBD as autistic nonsense.
I think Dmitry is confusing her with Spencer’s new American girlfriend who is a real SJW.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
Typical funny conspiracy theory is that the possibility of our "synthetic a priori" knowledge, is proof that we're living in a virtual reality simulation. I can see how this would explain why we can so easily study physics, and understand the world abstractly with a pencil and paper. It would simply be like someone inferring the machine code, from examining a high-level programming language operating on it. Of course, such conspiracy theory just pushes the mystery back to another dimension (in which a demiuge who is outside the simulation has built some machine, to run your simulation) in the typical gnostic fashion. But it should still show you how strange the power of "logic and reason" actually is.Replies: @AaronB, @utu
I listened to some great physicists (you can find them on the YT) pondering on the apparent mystery why mathematics turns out to be so useful in physics. But to tell you the truth I find their talks disingenuous because I can’t believe that they are actually that moronic to think there is a mystery in this question. There is no mystery or paradox. Those great physicists must not know or pretend to no know philosophy perhaps by following the example of the greatest ignoramus Feynman who had too much hubris to engage into philosophy. One should go back to 19 century and read Poincare and the great French epistemologist and historian of science Pierre Duhem.
First of all mathematics began as an empirical science (counting goats and measuring land plots) and its abstraction was constructed just like abstraction of physics was constructed later with the help of mathematics. The laws of algebra like associative law, commutative law and distributive law were discovered empirically.
Physics does not predict anything. It describes. Physics is as tautological as mathematics once it is expressed in the language of mathematics. It is a mathematical language of physics that describes our observations. And if we want to be quantitative we engage mathematics and what is physics without quantitative description? So physics must be mathematics. There is no other option.
The abstract mathematics began to evolve and created new abstract structures but only small fraction of them have any usage in physics to describe some observations. There is a human process of pick and choose. The fact that some mathematical methods fit well in physical description is our choice. We reject abstractions that do not fit. Even on a very low level of high school physics a 2nd order polynomial gives you two solutions of which one you reject because it is not physical for some reason. You can derive Lorentz and Galileo transforms from group theory (first time it was done by Ignatowski in 1910) but it produces also a third solution which is nether Lorentz nor Galileo that is rejected because it did not find an application in physics.
One can overdo mathematics and impose it on physics and get into a trouble. Pythagoras created this whole system of Universe and its God based on integer numbers and their ratios and that was supposed to describe everything. And then his student Hippasus proved that the square root of two, i.e, the length of the diagonal of a square with sides equal to one unit can’t be expressed as a ratio of two integers. He discovered an irrational number. For this fact supposedly he was drowned by Pythagoras followers and the knowledge of his discovery was suppressed because the whole physics of Pythagoras based on his mathematics was shattered.
Physics is very tautological. Pierre Duhem and Henri Poincare dealt with it arguing that any experiment that is constructed to prove or disprove something contains many hidden assumptions of existing theory and its mathematical structure so the outcome of being binary is predetermined, i.e, no new discovery could be possible from what already is implicitly imbedded in the structure of the theory that constructed the experiment.
Duhem’s name is given to the underdetermination or Duhem–Quine thesis, which holds that for any given set of observations there is an innumerably large number of explanations. It is, in essence, the same as Hume’s critique of induction: all three variants point at the fact that empirical evidence cannot force the choice of a theory or its revision.
2. And world is logically regular. Where 2 is a real mystery or not, dependents on things like to what extent are analytic statements a tautological product of our mind (and dependent on your position on questions like analytic/synthetic distinction). But 1 is not a product of our mind. Regularity and precision of the world is an independent fact, which is separate from any observation of it. And of course that is a real mystery (although the popular modern conspiracy theories that we are living in a virtual reality simulation, are not performing anything better than Plato writing about a demiurge over 2400 years ago). There's a choice in selection of different models. The fact physical description can fit with models in general, or the model is constant from one moment to another, is the actual mystery - and you write this in the quoted text: "Hume’s critique of induction".Hume showed for induction, we have to assume, unjustifiably, the uniformity of nature. But there is no way to justify that belief in continued uniformity of nature itself, except in circular way (by induction). Of course, our brain is "wired" to accept and infer on basis of uniformity of nature - but objectively, it is a form of "blind faith". Of course, models are underdetermined, but the idea here is we can select the presently best one "holistically", by looking at how it affects - in overt or implicit way - our other commitments. In this way, Quine rejects analytic-synthetic distinction. So for him, analytic statements are not tautologies, but are empirical statements close to the center of our present "total web of knowledge", on which are a lot of other confirmed observations are supported. He originally thought we even can sometimes recode our "analytic" statements, if it empirically necessary to make our other beliefs work. I've been reading Quine's book on language, which is very entertaining.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/powerful-bookshelf/?highlight=quine#comment-3026715Quine later writes some books on logic where he accepts some of it is indispensable. The strange result of this, was that Quine then infers mathematical/logical realism.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/indimath/#H2So radical empiricism also led to Platonism, in the 20th century.Replies: @utu
ČAPUTOVÁ JE PRODUKT IZRAELČANA
https://www.extraplus.sk/clanok/caputova-je-produkt-izraelcana
http://strategyandcampaigns.com/team/Replies: @bb.
i mean, maybe the israelis are just good at media and pr? the same guy did work for FPO in Austria, hardly in line with Caputovas globo-homo agenda. Everything for the shekel ei
US Not Seeking to Build Military Base, Station Troops in Slovakia - Ambassador
https://sputniknews.com/military/201903181073342859-us-military-base-slovakia/
Wasn't it Alexander Gorchakov who did not believe in news that were not officially denied?Replies: @bb.
Something the Imperial War Museum has forgotten. Much preferred the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.
I visited in 2003 and found no shortage of such things.
My biggest complaint was its burnishing of the Montgomery cult.Replies: @LondonBob
Yes, gobo-home yet the US officially denied:
US Not Seeking to Build Military Base, Station Troops in Slovakia – Ambassador
https://sputniknews.com/military/201903181073342859-us-military-base-slovakia/
Wasn’t it Alexander Gorchakov who did not believe in news that were not officially denied?
First of all mathematics began as an empirical science (counting goats and measuring land plots) and its abstraction was constructed just like abstraction of physics was constructed later with the help of mathematics. The laws of algebra like associative law, commutative law and distributive law were discovered empirically.
Physics does not predict anything. It describes. Physics is as tautological as mathematics once it is expressed in the language of mathematics. It is a mathematical language of physics that describes our observations. And if we want to be quantitative we engage mathematics and what is physics without quantitative description? So physics must be mathematics. There is no other option.
The abstract mathematics began to evolve and created new abstract structures but only small fraction of them have any usage in physics to describe some observations. There is a human process of pick and choose. The fact that some mathematical methods fit well in physical description is our choice. We reject abstractions that do not fit. Even on a very low level of high school physics a 2nd order polynomial gives you two solutions of which one you reject because it is not physical for some reason. You can derive Lorentz and Galileo transforms from group theory (first time it was done by Ignatowski in 1910) but it produces also a third solution which is nether Lorentz nor Galileo that is rejected because it did not find an application in physics.
One can overdo mathematics and impose it on physics and get into a trouble. Pythagoras created this whole system of Universe and its God based on integer numbers and their ratios and that was supposed to describe everything. And then his student Hippasus proved that the square root of two, i.e, the length of the diagonal of a square with sides equal to one unit can't be expressed as a ratio of two integers. He discovered an irrational number. For this fact supposedly he was drowned by Pythagoras followers and the knowledge of his discovery was suppressed because the whole physics of Pythagoras based on his mathematics was shattered.
Physics is very tautological. Pierre Duhem and Henri Poincare dealt with it arguing that any experiment that is constructed to prove or disprove something contains many hidden assumptions of existing theory and its mathematical structure so the outcome of being binary is predetermined, i.e, no new discovery could be possible from what already is implicitly imbedded in the structure of the theory that constructed the experiment.
Duhem's name is given to the underdetermination or Duhem–Quine thesis, which holds that for any given set of observations there is an innumerably large number of explanations. It is, in essence, the same as Hume's critique of induction: all three variants point at the fact that empirical evidence cannot force the choice of a theory or its revision.Replies: @Epigon, @Dmitry
What is your detailed opinion of astrophysics and theoretical mathematics?
Astrophysics has two legs: one stems from physics that we know that works on Earth and was verified here. This is basically the nuclear physics that helps us to explain what is going on inside stars, how they evolve and what they emit and how matter and elements are cretaed. The other leg concerns the space itself which hinges on two methods (postulates/assumptions): (1) red shift that is understood to be the Doppler effect from which the velocities of distant objects are measured and (2) Hubble's Law that was established empirically for not so distant objects with distances that could be measured using the parallax effect:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Hubble_constant.JPG
The Hubble Law allows to measure distance of objects based on the Doppler shift. But the Hubble curve is extrapolated far, far...far beyond what Hubble had verified and there is no way of verifying it independently whether the curve indeed applies where it is being used. Unlike 16-18 century astronomers who could have their theories about the solar system verified by independent means in 20 centry the theories of current astrophysicists have no such chance. But it is possible that from hypotheses made by astrophysics we will find something in our neighborhood or on Earth. Perhaps they will find that crazy hypothetical "dark matter" and it will turn out to be something very useful like perfect anti aging anti wrinkle cream or new viagra without risk of blindness? But right now that dark matter is just a missing mathematical term to balance some equation that supposedly does not balance as they think it should. This balance can be accomplished by other means like by tweaking the one-over-the square law but this is not a favored approach because it would encroach on Einstein's infallibility.
A lot of effort goes to 'prove' that Einstein was right. It seems to be an obsession bordering on a religious cult. And since Einstein sometimes held mutually contradictory opinions it is easy to announce that he was right in some cases. Only few thongs were verified quantitatively. But finding lensing effects can't quantitatively confirm Einstein General Relativity because the hypothetical objects that cause the lensing are, well, hypothetical so their mass can't be determined by independent means. Lensing effect can come form other theories as well.
What astrophysicists do is very fascinating and fun but it is on the level of stories and fables produced within a mathematical framework that to some extent was verified in our neighborhood.
As far as what is the theoretical mathematics? It can be anything. You can imagine some set with some elements and postulate that the elements have some mutual relations or properties and then you can start exploring what you can tell about this set and elements by weakening or strengthening assumptions about these properties. You may discover that the object already was described somewhere else or is isomorphically identical to one that exists in another branch of mathematics. Or you may discover that properties of your structure that you have created and explored can be used to solve problems of other structures where mathematicians got stuck.
There are quite a few theoretical physicist who fell in love with the so called Clifford algebras which are quote flexible so the physicists are trying to make them do things that they think they may need in their physics. This effort is pretty much done by physicists not that much by mathematicians so it is possible that at some point some mathematicians will have to go there and restore the order and clean up the mess the physics have done but also to give a better foundation of the things that the physicists discovered that turned out to be useful.Replies: @reiner Tor
Has the Imperial War Museum changed recently?
I visited in 2003 and found no shortage of such things.
My biggest complaint was its burnishing of the Montgomery cult.
Yanks can never evaluate Monty in a balanced manner because of when he had to take command of two US Armies and rescue things at the Battle of the Bulge.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
US Not Seeking to Build Military Base, Station Troops in Slovakia - Ambassador
https://sputniknews.com/military/201903181073342859-us-military-base-slovakia/
Wasn't it Alexander Gorchakov who did not believe in news that were not officially denied?Replies: @bb.
lol. They can always claim that service personnel on the airports is not really military presence, amirite? God I loath Lajcak so much, he’s such a cuck. Of course not just him. Gajdos some months earlier had no problem with the support infrastructure in tandem with the F16s. They are in it just for the shekels, no honor, just bullshit.
I visited in 2003 and found no shortage of such things.
My biggest complaint was its burnishing of the Montgomery cult.Replies: @LondonBob
Not enough stuff like tanks, artillery pieces etc. Too much ancillary stuff and dull stuff that tells a story about civilian life. Better to just line it all up and put as much weaponry out there as possible.
Yanks can never evaluate Monty in a balanced manner because of when he had to take command of two US Armies and rescue things at the Battle of the Bulge.
Other than the Monty cult my strongest memory from the museum is an 800mm shell from the Schwerer Gustav.
I don't have a problem with Monty, I was just irritated by the major Monty cult at the Imperial War Museum. American grousing about Monty comes down to:
1 - He was pursuing British interests that conflicted with American aims
2 - He wasn't American
3 - He was rude
I'm not bothered by these. He was a perfectly serviceable general. Perhaps not as good as Patton, but better than Omar Bradley...let alone Mark Clark. His strategic judgment was not good, but his operational judgment was decent.
I'm of the impression that there were better British commanders than Monty, but they were on other fronts (e.g. Slim). On the other hand perhaps they would not have succeeded in command of such large formations and against German opposition.
Montgomery's actions at the Battle of the Bulge were correct, though I'm mainly impressed by Eisenhower for having the courage to appoint a British commander.Replies: @LondonBob
Yanks can never evaluate Monty in a balanced manner because of when he had to take command of two US Armies and rescue things at the Battle of the Bulge.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Perhaps the dull stories about civilian life have faded from my memory.
Other than the Monty cult my strongest memory from the museum is an 800mm shell from the Schwerer Gustav.
I don’t have a problem with Monty, I was just irritated by the major Monty cult at the Imperial War Museum. American grousing about Monty comes down to:
1 – He was pursuing British interests that conflicted with American aims
2 – He wasn’t American
3 – He was rude
I’m not bothered by these. He was a perfectly serviceable general. Perhaps not as good as Patton, but better than Omar Bradley…let alone Mark Clark. His strategic judgment was not good, but his operational judgment was decent.
I’m of the impression that there were better British commanders than Monty, but they were on other fronts (e.g. Slim). On the other hand perhaps they would not have succeeded in command of such large formations and against German opposition.
Montgomery’s actions at the Battle of the Bulge were correct, though I’m mainly impressed by Eisenhower for having the courage to appoint a British commander.
I always find the criticism of Montgomery's cautiousness strange, Britain simply didn't have the manpower to waste. I am reminded of JFC Fuller's criticism of Lee being recklessly aggressive and wasting soldiers he could ill afford to lose.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
I do not know much about it. But let me say this: Astronomy was central to the development of physics. Humans looking up into the sky and being curious about what was it they saw created perhaps 70% of all physics that was known till the mid 19 century. The history of these developments is fascinating and what is most important the theories they developed have been proven correct to verification that became available in 20 century with new tools and space exploration. Basically they got the solar system right. The corrections that was introduced by the General Theory of Relativity were rather minor that pretty much can be ignored for most practical purposes within our solar system.
Astrophysics has two legs: one stems from physics that we know that works on Earth and was verified here. This is basically the nuclear physics that helps us to explain what is going on inside stars, how they evolve and what they emit and how matter and elements are cretaed. The other leg concerns the space itself which hinges on two methods (postulates/assumptions): (1) red shift that is understood to be the Doppler effect from which the velocities of distant objects are measured and (2) Hubble’s Law that was established empirically for not so distant objects with distances that could be measured using the parallax effect:
The Hubble Law allows to measure distance of objects based on the Doppler shift. But the Hubble curve is extrapolated far, far…far beyond what Hubble had verified and there is no way of verifying it independently whether the curve indeed applies where it is being used. Unlike 16-18 century astronomers who could have their theories about the solar system verified by independent means in 20 centry the theories of current astrophysicists have no such chance. But it is possible that from hypotheses made by astrophysics we will find something in our neighborhood or on Earth. Perhaps they will find that crazy hypothetical “dark matter” and it will turn out to be something very useful like perfect anti aging anti wrinkle cream or new viagra without risk of blindness? But right now that dark matter is just a missing mathematical term to balance some equation that supposedly does not balance as they think it should. This balance can be accomplished by other means like by tweaking the one-over-the square law but this is not a favored approach because it would encroach on Einstein’s infallibility.
A lot of effort goes to ‘prove’ that Einstein was right. It seems to be an obsession bordering on a religious cult. And since Einstein sometimes held mutually contradictory opinions it is easy to announce that he was right in some cases. Only few thongs were verified quantitatively. But finding lensing effects can’t quantitatively confirm Einstein General Relativity because the hypothetical objects that cause the lensing are, well, hypothetical so their mass can’t be determined by independent means. Lensing effect can come form other theories as well.
What astrophysicists do is very fascinating and fun but it is on the level of stories and fables produced within a mathematical framework that to some extent was verified in our neighborhood.
As far as what is the theoretical mathematics? It can be anything. You can imagine some set with some elements and postulate that the elements have some mutual relations or properties and then you can start exploring what you can tell about this set and elements by weakening or strengthening assumptions about these properties. You may discover that the object already was described somewhere else or is isomorphically identical to one that exists in another branch of mathematics. Or you may discover that properties of your structure that you have created and explored can be used to solve problems of other structures where mathematicians got stuck.
There are quite a few theoretical physicist who fell in love with the so called Clifford algebras which are quote flexible so the physicists are trying to make them do things that they think they may need in their physics. This effort is pretty much done by physicists not that much by mathematicians so it is possible that at some point some mathematicians will have to go there and restore the order and clean up the mess the physics have done but also to give a better foundation of the things that the physicists discovered that turned out to be useful.
Astrophysics has two legs: one stems from physics that we know that works on Earth and was verified here. This is basically the nuclear physics that helps us to explain what is going on inside stars, how they evolve and what they emit and how matter and elements are cretaed. The other leg concerns the space itself which hinges on two methods (postulates/assumptions): (1) red shift that is understood to be the Doppler effect from which the velocities of distant objects are measured and (2) Hubble's Law that was established empirically for not so distant objects with distances that could be measured using the parallax effect:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Hubble_constant.JPG
The Hubble Law allows to measure distance of objects based on the Doppler shift. But the Hubble curve is extrapolated far, far...far beyond what Hubble had verified and there is no way of verifying it independently whether the curve indeed applies where it is being used. Unlike 16-18 century astronomers who could have their theories about the solar system verified by independent means in 20 centry the theories of current astrophysicists have no such chance. But it is possible that from hypotheses made by astrophysics we will find something in our neighborhood or on Earth. Perhaps they will find that crazy hypothetical "dark matter" and it will turn out to be something very useful like perfect anti aging anti wrinkle cream or new viagra without risk of blindness? But right now that dark matter is just a missing mathematical term to balance some equation that supposedly does not balance as they think it should. This balance can be accomplished by other means like by tweaking the one-over-the square law but this is not a favored approach because it would encroach on Einstein's infallibility.
A lot of effort goes to 'prove' that Einstein was right. It seems to be an obsession bordering on a religious cult. And since Einstein sometimes held mutually contradictory opinions it is easy to announce that he was right in some cases. Only few thongs were verified quantitatively. But finding lensing effects can't quantitatively confirm Einstein General Relativity because the hypothetical objects that cause the lensing are, well, hypothetical so their mass can't be determined by independent means. Lensing effect can come form other theories as well.
What astrophysicists do is very fascinating and fun but it is on the level of stories and fables produced within a mathematical framework that to some extent was verified in our neighborhood.
As far as what is the theoretical mathematics? It can be anything. You can imagine some set with some elements and postulate that the elements have some mutual relations or properties and then you can start exploring what you can tell about this set and elements by weakening or strengthening assumptions about these properties. You may discover that the object already was described somewhere else or is isomorphically identical to one that exists in another branch of mathematics. Or you may discover that properties of your structure that you have created and explored can be used to solve problems of other structures where mathematicians got stuck.
There are quite a few theoretical physicist who fell in love with the so called Clifford algebras which are quote flexible so the physicists are trying to make them do things that they think they may need in their physics. This effort is pretty much done by physicists not that much by mathematicians so it is possible that at some point some mathematicians will have to go there and restore the order and clean up the mess the physics have done but also to give a better foundation of the things that the physicists discovered that turned out to be useful.Replies: @reiner Tor
GPS.
You do not expect that the engineers that designed the GPS system would believe and rely on the truth of theoretical relativistic formulas because the physicists told them so. They built up a back up of tracking and recalibration to take care of all possible drifts and instabilities (including relativistic ones) in satellite clocks.
Furthermore you can determine you position w/o having your own clock. All you need are positions of satellites that come in their signals and the times they sent the signals which they also send. And as long as their clocks are synchronized with each other but not necessarily with the Earth (which is irrelevant here because we assumed you have no clock) you will get a good position. You need 4 satellites to do it w/o a clock but 3 satellites if you have a clock synchronized with satellites' clocks.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that GPS does not have relativistic corrections but I am saying that even if the relativistic corrections were not plugged in explicitly in the system, the system would still worked because it was so designed.
We see many articles popping up hailing Einstein for giving us GPS that w/o him we would not have such a wonderful tool in our iPhones and everybody would be lost but this is just a part of Einstein's incessant apotheosis.
Otoh, if we did not know of relativistic time changes theories the GPS system should lead us to discovery of it by analyzing the corrections that were added by the tracking system. Strangely I haven't seen many papers there that would use GPS to corroborate the validity of the relativistic corrections. Perhaps because there is such a pileup of corrections on top of each other that nobody anymore can figure out what is the raw signal.Replies: @Denis
GPS can work w/o STR and GTR pretty well. Each satellite out of 24 or so is tracked constantly and its clocks and positions are recalibrated by the ground tracking stations once every two hours or so, iirc. There was even one tracking station in Russia which Russians as a retaliation after the 2014 sanctions shut down.
You do not expect that the engineers that designed the GPS system would believe and rely on the truth of theoretical relativistic formulas because the physicists told them so. They built up a back up of tracking and recalibration to take care of all possible drifts and instabilities (including relativistic ones) in satellite clocks.
Furthermore you can determine you position w/o having your own clock. All you need are positions of satellites that come in their signals and the times they sent the signals which they also send. And as long as their clocks are synchronized with each other but not necessarily with the Earth (which is irrelevant here because we assumed you have no clock) you will get a good position. You need 4 satellites to do it w/o a clock but 3 satellites if you have a clock synchronized with satellites’ clocks.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that GPS does not have relativistic corrections but I am saying that even if the relativistic corrections were not plugged in explicitly in the system, the system would still worked because it was so designed.
We see many articles popping up hailing Einstein for giving us GPS that w/o him we would not have such a wonderful tool in our iPhones and everybody would be lost but this is just a part of Einstein’s incessant apotheosis.
Otoh, if we did not know of relativistic time changes theories the GPS system should lead us to discovery of it by analyzing the corrections that were added by the tracking system. Strangely I haven’t seen many papers there that would use GPS to corroborate the validity of the relativistic corrections. Perhaps because there is such a pileup of corrections on top of each other that nobody anymore can figure out what is the raw signal.
First of all mathematics began as an empirical science (counting goats and measuring land plots) and its abstraction was constructed just like abstraction of physics was constructed later with the help of mathematics. The laws of algebra like associative law, commutative law and distributive law were discovered empirically.
Physics does not predict anything. It describes. Physics is as tautological as mathematics once it is expressed in the language of mathematics. It is a mathematical language of physics that describes our observations. And if we want to be quantitative we engage mathematics and what is physics without quantitative description? So physics must be mathematics. There is no other option.
The abstract mathematics began to evolve and created new abstract structures but only small fraction of them have any usage in physics to describe some observations. There is a human process of pick and choose. The fact that some mathematical methods fit well in physical description is our choice. We reject abstractions that do not fit. Even on a very low level of high school physics a 2nd order polynomial gives you two solutions of which one you reject because it is not physical for some reason. You can derive Lorentz and Galileo transforms from group theory (first time it was done by Ignatowski in 1910) but it produces also a third solution which is nether Lorentz nor Galileo that is rejected because it did not find an application in physics.
One can overdo mathematics and impose it on physics and get into a trouble. Pythagoras created this whole system of Universe and its God based on integer numbers and their ratios and that was supposed to describe everything. And then his student Hippasus proved that the square root of two, i.e, the length of the diagonal of a square with sides equal to one unit can't be expressed as a ratio of two integers. He discovered an irrational number. For this fact supposedly he was drowned by Pythagoras followers and the knowledge of his discovery was suppressed because the whole physics of Pythagoras based on his mathematics was shattered.
Physics is very tautological. Pierre Duhem and Henri Poincare dealt with it arguing that any experiment that is constructed to prove or disprove something contains many hidden assumptions of existing theory and its mathematical structure so the outcome of being binary is predetermined, i.e, no new discovery could be possible from what already is implicitly imbedded in the structure of the theory that constructed the experiment.
Duhem's name is given to the underdetermination or Duhem–Quine thesis, which holds that for any given set of observations there is an innumerably large number of explanations. It is, in essence, the same as Hume's critique of induction: all three variants point at the fact that empirical evidence cannot force the choice of a theory or its revision.Replies: @Epigon, @Dmitry
There’s nothing surprising that physicists like any modern professionals, are often naive outside their daily work – so they might not know people have been discussing the same problems for thousands of years, as awareness of these discussions has no relation to their job performance.
Awareness today that there were historical discussions of it, you will only have if your particular hobby is read those discussions.
Mystery is not that the theories are tautological structures, or that we can make internally consistent (consistent according to “relations of ideas”) castles in our mind, and select one which matches descriptively physical results, and exclude another which does not match.
Mystery is that world is regular enough, that at any level of description – of such theories – there will be at least one (but usually more than one, as you would know from history of science) which can descriptively match the results with the precision of a Swiss watch, and this will continue across time. And that you can zoom in and out at difference layers of description, select a theory, and it should be reducible to the lower layer of description by bridge laws.
Again there’s no mystery in the use of mathematics in physics. There’s no mystery on the theory side. Mystery is not on “theory side”. The mystery is all on “world side” – that we live in world which is ordered, mechanical, predictable, in order words, conducive to theory.
There’s also two parts of mystery here.
1. World is behaving in uniform way. (which allows inductive inference)
2. And world is logically regular.
Where 2 is a real mystery or not, dependents on things like to what extent are analytic statements a tautological product of our mind (and dependent on your position on questions like analytic/synthetic distinction).
But 1 is not a product of our mind. Regularity and precision of the world is an independent fact, which is separate from any observation of it.
And of course that is a real mystery (although the popular modern conspiracy theories that we are living in a virtual reality simulation, are not performing anything better than Plato writing about a demiurge over 2400 years ago).
There’s a choice in selection of different models. The fact physical description can fit with models in general, or the model is constant from one moment to another, is the actual mystery – and you write this in the quoted text: “Hume’s critique of induction”.
Hume showed for induction, we have to assume, unjustifiably, the uniformity of nature. But there is no way to justify that belief in continued uniformity of nature itself, except in circular way (by induction).
Of course, our brain is “wired” to accept and infer on basis of uniformity of nature – but objectively, it is a form of “blind faith”.
Of course, models are underdetermined, but the idea here is we can select the presently best one “holistically”, by looking at how it affects – in overt or implicit way – our other commitments.
In this way, Quine rejects analytic-synthetic distinction. So for him, analytic statements are not tautologies, but are empirical statements close to the center of our present “total web of knowledge”, on which are a lot of other confirmed observations are supported.
He originally thought we even can sometimes recode our “analytic” statements, if it empirically necessary to make our other beliefs work.
I’ve been reading Quine’s book on language, which is very entertaining.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/powerful-bookshelf/?highlight=quine#comment-3026715
Quine later writes some books on logic where he accepts some of it is indispensable.
The strange result of this, was that Quine then infers mathematical/logical realism.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/indimath/#H2
So radical empiricism also led to Platonism, in the 20th century.
Of course they are pushing for those monuments more and more. Precisely because the purpose is not to commemorate the victims (who have long been forgotten), but to push for their particular ideology.Replies: @German_reader, @Jaakko Raipala
It seems to me that cuckservative and centrist governments are much more likely to build Holocaust memorials than leftists. Leftists usually want monuments to cult figures like Marx, Lenin, Mandela etc or some abstract monstrosities that portray the struggle of the proletariat or whatever. They occasionally do like an ugly Holocaust monument to desecrate a “right-wing” or “traditional” space, of course.
I don’t think we had a single Holocaust memorial in Finland back when we were a Soviet vassal state with powerful socialist parties and commies. I don’t even remember reading about it in school history books – it probably was there but the Holocaust just wasn’t considered nowhere near as important by leftists as the atrocities of the Civil War. The most evil man in history wasn’t Hitler, it was either Nikolai II or general Mannerheim.
Now that we are a EU/American vassal ruled by nominally “right-wing” parties there’s no escaping the constant Holocaust propaganda. It’s pretty damn offensive considering that there’s been absolutely zero persecution of Jews in this country, ever, and especially not during WWII when we really stood out as the Axis country where Jewish citizens weren’t treated any different from anyone else fighting for the good crusade against Bolshevism.
Also another offensive thing is constant stuff about how we constantly hear that some Jew was killed in the camps because he wasn’t accepted into Finland – we were in the middle of a world war so we turned back nearly all foreigners, it would be beyond stupid to do anything less.
I think Dmitry is confusing her with Spencer's new American girlfriend who is a real SJW.Replies: @Dmitry
Sure I only follow the story on Karlin’s blog. But I’m sure she has been described as SJW here.
As for race/nationality. The name is Russian, but people here say she is Georgian. From the face, she looks semi-caucasian type of Georgian. So it’s an equivalent of if the alleged leader of Russian nationalism, was having children with a Mexican woman with an American name.
There’s nothing wrong with this, of course.
But I can imagine American nationalists would be laughing about it as an irony, or something that was offensive to American nationalism, if Russian nationalists marry Mexicans.
As for Georgians, they are a mix of different races living together, like so many other races (such as Mexicans even). Unlike Armenians, quite a proportion of Georgians are obviously look Europeans externally. Personally, Georgians I met who just look European.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebrities
Some politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theater
Whereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theater
Georgia’s Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
Some Georgian celebrities look half-European
And then others look almost Spanish
Maybe more “aristocratic” caucasian look
https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/
Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks).
https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/
–
Richard Spencer wife – she’s somewhere in the “middle range” ?
She's also busted which doesn't help matters, though perhaps he was mesmerized by her ample bosom.Replies: @Dmitry
There are also more strange cases.
This Murad Jabbarov (by descent - from some of the Muslim people of the Caucasus)
https://cs.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2013/10/15/6/1381822215_590939395.jpeg
was convicted by the court for the propaganda of ideas of the superiority of the white Nordic raceReplies: @Mikhail, @Mitleser
https://sputnik-georgia.com/images/22829/50/228295007.jpg
http://nor.ge/wp-content/uploads/shkola-3.jpg
Georgian "Nordic" TV presenters/Actresses/models have atypical appearance (and that's why they are chosen as celebrities)Replies: @Dmitry
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
Georgians are white to me, but a low grade variety of white like Albanians. In other words it is a bit shameful to marry one and not appropriate for a “white nationalist” of English heritage like Richard Spencer.
She’s also busted which doesn’t help matters, though perhaps he was mesmerized by her ample bosom.
I don't think we had a single Holocaust memorial in Finland back when we were a Soviet vassal state with powerful socialist parties and commies. I don't even remember reading about it in school history books - it probably was there but the Holocaust just wasn't considered nowhere near as important by leftists as the atrocities of the Civil War. The most evil man in history wasn't Hitler, it was either Nikolai II or general Mannerheim.
Now that we are a EU/American vassal ruled by nominally "right-wing" parties there's no escaping the constant Holocaust propaganda. It's pretty damn offensive considering that there's been absolutely zero persecution of Jews in this country, ever, and especially not during WWII when we really stood out as the Axis country where Jewish citizens weren't treated any different from anyone else fighting for the good crusade against Bolshevism.
Also another offensive thing is constant stuff about how we constantly hear that some Jew was killed in the camps because he wasn't accepted into Finland - we were in the middle of a world war so we turned back nearly all foreigners, it would be beyond stupid to do anything less.Replies: @songbird
Interestingly, there aren’t too many listed in Russia – just three. (Could be others, I guess). Two in Moscow and one in Rostov-on-the-Don. There is one in St. Petersburg – Florida, that is.
Brazil has at least four.
This is very curious to me. I wonder if it is because Russia had so many war dead, or Communism. Or the economy. I separate the two because I think organizational differences in politics are potentially quite significant.
Surely, the number in Brazil is quite high for its location. Maybe, it has something to do with diversity making the ground fertile.
It is a myth that there were no open doors. Trujillo, the dictator of the Dominican Republic offered about 100,000 visas to Jews. Very few immigrated. Fewer stayed.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
That is funny: Georgia is such an important country that I did not realize there was a Georgian script. That photo taken in Abu Dhabi – I thought I was looking at Arabic, at first.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
I am not very interested in this topic, but I saw as at the forum of Russian nationalists discussed why Russian nationalists are usually (by origin) only partially Russian, and the real pureblood Russians are indifferent to Russian nationalism. At the same forum, it was noted that Russian nationalists unusually often have Tatar wives. One of the leaders of modern Russian nationalists (Matvey Tsen) is Korean.
There are also more strange cases.
This Murad Jabbarov (by descent – from some of the Muslim people of the Caucasus)
was convicted by the court for the propaganda of ideas of the superiority of the white Nordic race
Kornilov also comes to mind.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
Georgians are typical “kakvkaztsy” (I. e. roughly correspond to the appearance of the Sicilians).
Georgian “Nordic” TV presenters/Actresses/models have atypical appearance (and that’s why they are chosen as celebrities)
Some Police State & Sovok Propaganda
Concerns why the Bloomberg/JRL promoted Leonid Bershidsky is full of it, when he says that his views on Crimea (specifically, his opposition to Crimea’s reunification with Russia) forced him to leave Russia:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/03/russia-and-ukraine-fight-but-their-people-seek-reconciliation-a65065
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/lets-talk-about-ukraine-a65057
https://russia-insider.com/en/culture/russian-universities-are-battleground-russias-future/ri9117
Ongoing propaganda from John Batchelor and Stephen Cohen:
https://audioboom.com/posts/7221204-tales-of-the-new-cold-war-1-of-2-accusing-russia-of-attacking-america-2016-stephen-f-cohen
Note what’s said in the opening discussion versus the posted (at the link) photo and written characterization of the US force being attacked.
Make no mistake about it, the Russian Civil War was very much a civil war involving foreign intervention of varying types to each of the main combatants (Red and Whites), whose behavior included atrocities – something that has been evident with civil wars in other countries.
Contrary to John Batchelor, Cold War era Russian history classes in the US frequently enough had politically left of center professors telling only one side of that story – which doesn’t make for good journalism and history.
There are also more strange cases.
This Murad Jabbarov (by descent - from some of the Muslim people of the Caucasus)
https://cs.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2013/10/15/6/1381822215_590939395.jpeg
was convicted by the court for the propaganda of ideas of the superiority of the white Nordic raceReplies: @Mikhail, @Mitleser
Reminded of the svidos who highlight that Bogolyubsky’s mother was a non-Slav with a background from the east.
Kornilov also comes to mind.
There are also more strange cases.
This Murad Jabbarov (by descent - from some of the Muslim people of the Caucasus)
https://cs.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2013/10/15/6/1381822215_590939395.jpeg
was convicted by the court for the propaganda of ideas of the superiority of the white Nordic raceReplies: @Mikhail, @Mitleser
So, basically “when you are a kid and you are raised in an all-Russian environment, nobody really talks to you about your identity. You just are.”
2. And world is logically regular. Where 2 is a real mystery or not, dependents on things like to what extent are analytic statements a tautological product of our mind (and dependent on your position on questions like analytic/synthetic distinction). But 1 is not a product of our mind. Regularity and precision of the world is an independent fact, which is separate from any observation of it. And of course that is a real mystery (although the popular modern conspiracy theories that we are living in a virtual reality simulation, are not performing anything better than Plato writing about a demiurge over 2400 years ago). There's a choice in selection of different models. The fact physical description can fit with models in general, or the model is constant from one moment to another, is the actual mystery - and you write this in the quoted text: "Hume’s critique of induction".Hume showed for induction, we have to assume, unjustifiably, the uniformity of nature. But there is no way to justify that belief in continued uniformity of nature itself, except in circular way (by induction). Of course, our brain is "wired" to accept and infer on basis of uniformity of nature - but objectively, it is a form of "blind faith". Of course, models are underdetermined, but the idea here is we can select the presently best one "holistically", by looking at how it affects - in overt or implicit way - our other commitments. In this way, Quine rejects analytic-synthetic distinction. So for him, analytic statements are not tautologies, but are empirical statements close to the center of our present "total web of knowledge", on which are a lot of other confirmed observations are supported. He originally thought we even can sometimes recode our "analytic" statements, if it empirically necessary to make our other beliefs work. I've been reading Quine's book on language, which is very entertaining.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/powerful-bookshelf/?highlight=quine#comment-3026715Quine later writes some books on logic where he accepts some of it is indispensable. The strange result of this, was that Quine then infers mathematical/logical realism.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/indimath/#H2So radical empiricism also led to Platonism, in the 20th century.Replies: @utu
Appreciate your comment. Thanks. I wish I had more time to study these issue and then discuss them. There are some questions which I find way too fanciful to be able wrap my mind around them. Like for instance: “why there is something rather than nothing” or “why world is regular enough”.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/#CosFinTunReplies: @Dmitry
B) such a Creator has no need for the created, and this suggests the supernatural essence: Love and Grace.More than for logical inquiry, it should properly be the subject for meditative prayer.“I believe in order to understand; I understand in order to better believe.”
God is the answer for both (especially the latter)
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/#CosFinTun
You do not expect that the engineers that designed the GPS system would believe and rely on the truth of theoretical relativistic formulas because the physicists told them so. They built up a back up of tracking and recalibration to take care of all possible drifts and instabilities (including relativistic ones) in satellite clocks.
Furthermore you can determine you position w/o having your own clock. All you need are positions of satellites that come in their signals and the times they sent the signals which they also send. And as long as their clocks are synchronized with each other but not necessarily with the Earth (which is irrelevant here because we assumed you have no clock) you will get a good position. You need 4 satellites to do it w/o a clock but 3 satellites if you have a clock synchronized with satellites' clocks.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that GPS does not have relativistic corrections but I am saying that even if the relativistic corrections were not plugged in explicitly in the system, the system would still worked because it was so designed.
We see many articles popping up hailing Einstein for giving us GPS that w/o him we would not have such a wonderful tool in our iPhones and everybody would be lost but this is just a part of Einstein's incessant apotheosis.
Otoh, if we did not know of relativistic time changes theories the GPS system should lead us to discovery of it by analyzing the corrections that were added by the tracking system. Strangely I haven't seen many papers there that would use GPS to corroborate the validity of the relativistic corrections. Perhaps because there is such a pileup of corrections on top of each other that nobody anymore can figure out what is the raw signal.Replies: @Denis
I’m pretty much a layman in mathematics and physics, so I guess it’s not worth much coming from me, but these were some great comments utu.
Thank you.
Brenton Tarrant seems to have made donations to several identitarian organisations in Europe, possibly the French Génération Identitaire among them:
https://derstandard.at/2000100745249/Terrorist-von-Christchurch-setzte-vier-Spenden-an-Identitaere-Organisationen-in
Meanwhile in Austria “based” Chancellor Kurz is using the entire affair as a pretext to force the FPÖ to distance themselves from the identitarians (whom Kurz has called “disgusting” and apparently would like to ban):
https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000100770184/kanzler-kurz-findet-identitaere-widerlich
And the FPÖ under Strache seems to be going along.
But I wonder if they have already taken down some of these social media pages.Replies: @German_reader
https://derstandard.at/2000100745249/Terrorist-von-Christchurch-setzte-vier-Spenden-an-Identitaere-Organisationen-in
Meanwhile in Austria "based" Chancellor Kurz is using the entire affair as a pretext to force the FPÖ to distance themselves from the identitarians (whom Kurz has called "disgusting" and apparently would like to ban):
https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000100770184/kanzler-kurz-findet-identitaere-widerlich
And the FPÖ under Strache seems to be going along.Replies: @songbird
I heard someone say that the reason Austria didn’t sign the UN global migration pact was down to Sellner himself. That his message about it got enough public exposure through social media, and enough people organized to send a message to Austrian politicians.
But I wonder if they have already taken down some of these social media pages.
It's clear however that left-wing prosecutors are intent on bringing him and the other Austrian identitarians down (even though the identitarians recently won a trial in which all charges against them were dismissed).
The most serious lesson of this imo is that some slimy centrist like Kurz who claims to have gotten it about immigration should never be trusted. But apparently the right-wing FPÖ can't be trusted either...there are tweets from Strache dating back to 2016 in which he defended the identitarians as a non-violent protest movement with legitimate concerns. Now he's going along with the witch-hunt because of the massacre committed by an Australian loner on the other side of the globe.
But I wonder if they have already taken down some of these social media pages.Replies: @German_reader
He did run a pretty good social media campaign against the pact, so there’s probably at least some truth to that.
It’s clear however that left-wing prosecutors are intent on bringing him and the other Austrian identitarians down (even though the identitarians recently won a trial in which all charges against them were dismissed).
The most serious lesson of this imo is that some slimy centrist like Kurz who claims to have gotten it about immigration should never be trusted. But apparently the right-wing FPÖ can’t be trusted either…there are tweets from Strache dating back to 2016 in which he defended the identitarians as a non-violent protest movement with legitimate concerns. Now he’s going along with the witch-hunt because of the massacre committed by an Australian loner on the other side of the globe.
@ why something rather than nothing
A) A complex things that works (the Universe but even man) suggests not only a creator but an intention for the created.
B) such a Creator has no need for the created, and this suggests the supernatural essence: Love and Grace.
More than for logical inquiry, it should properly be the subject for meditative prayer.
“I believe in order to understand; I understand in order to better believe.”
We agree on something.
Future German aesthetics: Climatopia
SWPL: Slum edition?
https://www.fnp.de/frankfurt/frankfurt-hessen-koennte-rebstock-areal-neuer-stadtteil-aussehen-12076423.html
But, I like the way these students are thinking. I guess I was really misinformed about these "green plans."
As for Moscow, I can't find a reason why Moscow should assist Greece financially. I suppose there's always South Stream, and who knows what Tsipras was pitching. In any case Putin told him that he had to go through Berlin.
Moscow also pours money into black holes on occasion. Rosneft has poured billions into Venezuela it will never see again.
Anyhow the original point here is that the Germans are the ones who wrecked the Eurozone, not Washington.Replies: @Mitleser
There is still time to sabotage COSCO’s operations.
A good follow-up segment for Fox News’ Tucker Carlson:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/4/tulsi-gabbard-accuses-cnns-fareed-zakaria-of-tryin/
http://theduran.com/cnns-zakaria-calls-on-trump-to-declare-war-against-venezuela-and-russia-video/
SWPL: Slum edition?
https://www.fnp.de/bilder/2019/04/02/12076423/724297138-fff_rebe1-2DiHLxEJf1.jpg
https://www.fnp.de/frankfurt/frankfurt-hessen-koennte-rebstock-areal-neuer-stadtteil-aussehen-12076423.htmlReplies: @songbird
2100 – seems rather optimistic, given Africa’s population trends. I wonder if anyone made these sort of pictures in 1919 in Detroit. Of course, only about 6 million Africans moved during the Great Migration. Frankfurt will realistically have at least 300x that number to draw on.
But, I like the way these students are thinking. I guess I was really misinformed about these “green plans.”
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/#CosFinTunReplies: @Dmitry
Just as with a hypothesis we live in virtual reality simulation, “God” – in sense of some separate “creator” – is not an “answer”, but more a way to push away the mystery of what we actually know, and project a fantasy space to obscure the mystery.
The problem is, you’ll then have all exactly the same questions in the next layer of reality you have fantasized to try to explain the layer of reality that we actually experience. But you have an ignobility of having projected an additional layer, which you know nothing about, and which was created by your imagination.
God could be a real concept, but the layer of reality we experience would have to be part of (and probably the essence) of whatever we refer to as “God”. Otherwise, all you can say, is you know nothing of God. Or God, refers to whatever you don’t know.
The teleological arguments underdetermine any thing we will speculate to explain them. If you want to speculate, and then we would at least select our speculations based on explanatory power, rather than childish wishes – of course, the conspiracy theory that we live in a virtual reality simulation, has at least a bit more explanatory power than conventional Western theology. (But it’s still a silly speculation).
For people, who in their childhood were habituated in Western mythologies, teleology could alternatively support some speculations about demiurges. But the teleological views could also support a Buddhist model, where there are endless layers of virtual reality simulation being generated by our karma.
There is something childish about teleological arguments: people are simply using their imaginations and projecting intentions onto things they don’t understand, in order to try to weakly avoid accepting how little they know, and how stupid we all actually are..
I would add theories such as “cosmological natural selection” are equally speculations, but they are at least trying to introduce less fantasy elements.
Plato was not above this kind of game, and he wrote such speculations in Timaeus – but he fortunately recognizes Socrates is too noble for this game, and places those speculations in mouth of a minor Pythagorean philosopher.
She's also busted which doesn't help matters, though perhaps he was mesmerized by her ample bosom.Replies: @Dmitry
It’s a nationality which includes some white people, and also brown people. It’s just some racially different appearing people, within the same nationality (it’s typical of nationalities who live on geographic borderzones between different races).
I’m not sure what is the proportion of brown to white people there – Melanf thinks that they are mainly brown people.
However, I’ve even met Georgians who look European and not caucasian (light hair, blue eyes, light skin), so I don’t think it can be that unusual.
There’s good and bad people in most nationalities. There are Georgians far superior to anglosaxons (in whatever dimension you select), and vice versa.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with marrying Georgians.
All I’m saying is that it’s surely some kind of troll, when someone who is promoted by the media as the most famous caveman nationalist in America, is dating in the anti-nationalist way.
If you don’t control immigration policy, then marrying behaviour is the one of the only ways Americans would express such “caveman nationalism” views that can have any consequences in the real world.
According to the media, this is the most important American nationalist. But the personal life behaviour is less nationalist than American liberals who are marrying white anglosaxons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html
But there is a simpler explanation. Kouprianova, possessing similar interests, is probably one of the few women who actually find Spencer's monologues on Spengler and Heidegger interesting. However, I think Spencer's current girlfriend is a crazy white Anglo-Saxon liberal (who apparently leads him around on a physical leash?).
*Although to be whimsical:
https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/VettingPart2_Flowchart.jpgReplies: @songbird, @Dmitry
https://sputnik-georgia.com/images/22829/50/228295007.jpg
http://nor.ge/wp-content/uploads/shkola-3.jpg
Georgian "Nordic" TV presenters/Actresses/models have atypical appearance (and that's why they are chosen as celebrities)Replies: @Dmitry
I’ve met two Georgians with completely light appearance, not looking like typical caucasians. But I have no idea how common or atypical that is in Georgia as I have not visited the country.
PC is like a drug.
https://quillette.com/2018/07/14/i-was-the-mob-until-the-mob-came-for-me/
How did I become that person(a SJW)? It happened because it was exhilarating. Every time I would call someone racist or sexist, I would get a rush. That rush would then be reaffirmed and sustained by the stars, hearts, and thumbs-up that constitute the nickels and dimes of social media validation. The people giving me these stars, hearts, and thumbs-up were engaging in their own cynical game: A fear of being targeted by the mob induces us to signal publicly that we are part of it.
Compared to East Asian women (‘practically a rite of passage’ for Alt-right men) a quarter Georgian* is not so odd.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html
But there is a simpler explanation. Kouprianova, possessing similar interests, is probably one of the few women who actually find Spencer’s monologues on Spengler and Heidegger interesting. However, I think Spencer’s current girlfriend is a crazy white Anglo-Saxon liberal (who apparently leads him around on a physical leash?).
*Although to be whimsical:
Other than the Monty cult my strongest memory from the museum is an 800mm shell from the Schwerer Gustav.
I don't have a problem with Monty, I was just irritated by the major Monty cult at the Imperial War Museum. American grousing about Monty comes down to:
1 - He was pursuing British interests that conflicted with American aims
2 - He wasn't American
3 - He was rude
I'm not bothered by these. He was a perfectly serviceable general. Perhaps not as good as Patton, but better than Omar Bradley...let alone Mark Clark. His strategic judgment was not good, but his operational judgment was decent.
I'm of the impression that there were better British commanders than Monty, but they were on other fronts (e.g. Slim). On the other hand perhaps they would not have succeeded in command of such large formations and against German opposition.
Montgomery's actions at the Battle of the Bulge were correct, though I'm mainly impressed by Eisenhower for having the courage to appoint a British commander.Replies: @LondonBob
O’Connor’s offensive against the Italians in North Africa, Operation Compass, was the most impressive British offensive of the war, O’Connor seeking to emulate Stonewall Jackson’s tactics in his Shenandoah campaign with a smaller force using mobility and speed to rout a superior force. He did well enough in Normandy but did not distinguish himself. I actually think General Sir Miles Dempsey was the most capable, although he was Monty’s protege so Monty deserves credit again for his ability to select competent underlings.
I always find the criticism of Montgomery’s cautiousness strange, Britain simply didn’t have the manpower to waste. I am reminded of JFC Fuller’s criticism of Lee being recklessly aggressive and wasting soldiers he could ill afford to lose.
E.g. look at Georgian politicians or celebritiesSome politician looks very Spanish or Italian to me https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156621404003410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245489.&type=3&theaterWhereas Saakashvili is a pure caucasian race. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155737577258410&set=pb.612873409.-2207520000.1554245607.&type=3&theaterGeorgia's Minister of Economics looks like some North African girls
https://i.imgur.com/PK0kTGV.jpgSome Georgian celebrities look half-Europeanhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BsEZhklhlq8/And then others look almost Spanishhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BoJ4IfPnxNs/Maybe more "aristocratic" caucasian look https://www.instagram.com/p/BknLT8ql-Bs/Then the really more typical dark caucasian race Georgians (which are like Armenians and Turks). https://www.instagram.com/p/BvbSXy6l99J/
And more typical dark Georgians, which look the identical as Armenians and Turks
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp9oEcIHdan/-
Richard Spencer wife - she's somewhere in the "middle range" ?
https://i.imgur.com/fykdC9e.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZsoXLo.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird, @melanf, @melanf, @reiner Tor
Vera Kobalia is just… wow.
Give this man a hand.
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1114155669890924545Replies: @DFH
Strange that they didn’t mention that he’s a white nationalist (or any of his political opinions at all). Are Mail journalists just that lazy?
The NPC responses (even in the Mail comments) are hilarious as well.
Cover of tomorrow’s SPIEGEL:
AfD
Putin’s puppets
How the Kremlin is using the right-wing party for its own purposes
You have the strings representing the invisible force, or the hex. Nuclear energy, racism/sexism, genetic engineering, or in this case, the internet. You have the word "Puppen" which evokes voodoo dolls, besides having some amount of alliteration, such as a witchdoctor would surely use.Replies: @German_reader
Just as fake as the original. .
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
https://www.publicomag.com/2019/04/wochenrueckblick-ein-sozialismus-mit-dem-antlitz-von-robert-habeck/Replies: @reiner Tor
https://quillette.com/2018/07/14/i-was-the-mob-until-the-mob-came-for-me/
How did I become that person(a SJW)? It happened because it was exhilarating. Every time I would call someone racist or sexist, I would get a rush. That rush would then be reaffirmed and sustained by the stars, hearts, and thumbs-up that constitute the nickels and dimes of social media validation. The people giving me these stars, hearts, and thumbs-up were engaging in their own cynical game: A fear of being targeted by the mob induces us to signal publicly that we are part of it.Replies: @Thulean Friend
That is a terrible analysis. It’s not far from the “they only do it for money” cope argument that you hear from boomers and/or cuckservatives. Both arguments are designed to distract from the fact that there is real, underlying malice in what’s happening to the West and it’s coming from the inside by trivialising and/or personalising it.
Sometimes it’s hard to know if the people pushing this kind of ‘analysis’ are just stupid or malicious themselves, frankly. In case of them being malicious, because they want people to think that there are more shallow/pedestrian reasons for what’s happening now.
By shifting it to money or ‘getting a rush’, you’re blocking the avenues to deeper introspection. Quillette and sites like that are more dangerous than even leftist sites because they act as a narrow vessel of pseudo-resistance to the current dogma without ever fundamentally challening its core assumptions (such as opposition to white ethnic organising), while dressing it in indivualist arguments. Jordan Peterson on steroids.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html
But there is a simpler explanation. Kouprianova, possessing similar interests, is probably one of the few women who actually find Spencer's monologues on Spengler and Heidegger interesting. However, I think Spencer's current girlfriend is a crazy white Anglo-Saxon liberal (who apparently leads him around on a physical leash?).
*Although to be whimsical:
https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/VettingPart2_Flowchart.jpgReplies: @songbird, @Dmitry
There is the idea that the greater the genetic distance, the greater the chance of psychological problems, due to mismatch among the very large number of genes expressed in the brain. Under that consideration, Georgian might be better.
Though, I have known a number of Asian happas, and they all seemed fairly normal. I have never known a Georgian (at least from the country), so my subconscious thoughts may be colored by the Schwarzenegger movie “Red Heat.”
I like the flag, still I must say the country is suspiciously close to Chechnya. On that basis, I would probably prefer a quarter Asian.
I always find the criticism of Montgomery's cautiousness strange, Britain simply didn't have the manpower to waste. I am reminded of JFC Fuller's criticism of Lee being recklessly aggressive and wasting soldiers he could ill afford to lose.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
Operation Compass was a great success, but it was also against Italians. When the British attempted to continue to press the advantage against (rather small) German forces, the outcome was different. Contrary to myth the Italians were not cowards, but they were badly equipped and led.
I agree that Montgomery’s caution was appropriate. It was inferior in manpower and fighting against an opponent which was tactically superior. Furthermore, Britain enjoyed superior resources and was part of a grand coalition with overwhelming superiority in both manpower and resources.
If Britain had been facing Germany alone then perhaps Montgomery would not have been an appropriate commander. Aggression can also be an appropriate strategy in response to limited resources as it offers the possibility of decisive results. This was after all the traditional Prussian-German strategy. But that requires tactically superior forces which cannot be quickly developed, and thus was never an option available to British land forces.
I think Lee’s aggression was appropriate for that reason, and in fact he was insufficiently aggressive. It was Stonewall Jackson who wanted to capitalize on First Bull Run with a major strategic offensive into the north to sever the communications between NYC and DC.
The most interesting success with limited forces in the war is probably Tiger Yamashita’s campaign during the Centrifugal Offensive against British forces in Malaya and Singapore. And of course the Finns.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html
But there is a simpler explanation. Kouprianova, possessing similar interests, is probably one of the few women who actually find Spencer's monologues on Spengler and Heidegger interesting. However, I think Spencer's current girlfriend is a crazy white Anglo-Saxon liberal (who apparently leads him around on a physical leash?).
*Although to be whimsical:
https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/VettingPart2_Flowchart.jpgReplies: @songbird, @Dmitry
Georgians are just quite analogous to Mexicans, racially and culturally – in relation to America and Russia.
American media was claiming (of course inventing) an idea that Spencer is the most important American nationalist, who is somehow related to Trump’s nationalism. So at least from Russia, it is ironic, as the “nationalism” of Trump’s election was all from his rhetoric against Mexican immigration.
Lol I’m not associating Georgians with Mexicans as an insult though. In real life Mexicans I’ve talked with, always seem more civilized and educated than Americans I’ve talked with, and start saying how they read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy.
For some kind of “internationalist nationalist” (if this is not weird enough even for Americans), I could imagine them justifying marrying a Japanese girl – as you would at least pair with the master race of Asia. Even Hitler might not be too angry. And then South Koreans, could at best some a kind of low quality substitute for Japanese. Anything else in Asia, would be surely yellow trash for them.
Would you rather have six delicious Coors Banquets?
Or six months left to live?
https://twitter.com/DerSPIEGEL/status/1114196258351198214
AfD
Putin's puppets
How the Kremlin is using the right-wing party for its own purposesReplies: @songbird, @Mitleser
That’s great: it really conforms to the anthropological view that Leftism is akin to Africans’ belief in hoodoo.
You have the strings representing the invisible force, or the hex. Nuclear energy, racism/sexism, genetic engineering, or in this case, the internet. You have the word “Puppen” which evokes voodoo dolls, besides having some amount of alliteration, such as a witchdoctor would surely use.
It's probably still possible, and maybe they're just going for the alliteration, but I suppose to some degree it shows their dependence on the narratives provided by American liberals.Replies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
Seven days…
Okay, just six.
You have the strings representing the invisible force, or the hex. Nuclear energy, racism/sexism, genetic engineering, or in this case, the internet. You have the word "Puppen" which evokes voodoo dolls, besides having some amount of alliteration, such as a witchdoctor would surely use.Replies: @German_reader
The strange thing is, it doesn’t really sound like standard German usage to me…I’d rather expect Putins Marionetten (puppet state is Marionettenstaat in German).
It’s probably still possible, and maybe they’re just going for the alliteration, but I suppose to some degree it shows their dependence on the narratives provided by American liberals.
I find it enjoyable to view old films, the actors speak without much foreign influences and with authentic accents.Replies: @songbird
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/turkeys-erdogan-must-choose-us-f-35-fighter-jet-or-russian-s-400-missile-system.html
I still don’t understand it. They don’t simply want to block the S-400 deal, but also humiliate Erdogan. I also think that it’s a bit over the top. After all, I’m pretty sure that there are lots of opportunities in this for the Americans (they could observe the S-400 up close), and the official argument (that the Russians could learn the secrets of the F-35) is obviously bullcrap. I thought that now they made it perfectly clear that they won’t tolerate such purchases in the future, from the Turks or anyone else. But now they are risking their entire relationship with Turkey, which is probably Putin’s pipe dream. So why are they doing it?
On the other hand, I think this entails considerable risks for Russia, in that its sensitive military secrets could now fall into NATO hands. Which is still the most likely outcome. So maybe they should also let the Turks out of the deal? Maybe by requiring them to purchase Russian civilian airliners? So the money would still go to the Russian military-industrial complex.
This won't work with Erdogan, but it will probably achieve its intended result by dissuading others from purchasing Russian weapons.
Either Pompeo and Bolton don't care about America's relationship with Turkey (my impression) or no they don't believe Turkey will break with the West.Replies: @reiner Tor
It's probably still possible, and maybe they're just going for the alliteration, but I suppose to some degree it shows their dependence on the narratives provided by American liberals.Replies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
In Scandinavia, generally speaking in all parts of society but especially at higher discursive levels, it is becoming more and more common for people to speak a slightly peculiar form of their own languages due to the dominance of English (I myself suffer from this problem, but I see this also in my relatives, the everyday speech patterns of academics, the people who write for Danish state propaganda, etc.)
I find it enjoyable to view old films, the actors speak without much foreign influences and with authentic accents.
It is sad that they shot a lot in studio and did not capture more places on film.
I also appreciate the accents, though there was a tendency in America to make them up, and Britain had a definite preference for upper class ones.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
I find it enjoyable to view old films, the actors speak without much foreign influences and with authentic accents.Replies: @songbird
I like old British and American films too. Very few had blacks in them. What would be mundane today was considered exotic back then – a Quebecois seeing a monster flying towards the US in an American film, a British film set in Cornwall, which was considered a place of magic and superstition.
It is sad that they shot a lot in studio and did not capture more places on film.
I also appreciate the accents, though there was a tendency in America to make them up, and Britain had a definite preference for upper class ones.
It's probably still possible, and maybe they're just going for the alliteration, but I suppose to some degree it shows their dependence on the narratives provided by American liberals.Replies: @Hyperborean, @songbird
Forgot to mention the AfD arrow which serendipitously shows the direction of the curse.
Speaking of the AfD, I support their efforts to prevent the German language from being increasingly modified, but not their plans to spread it among the migrants. The good thing about parallel societies is that they ease the deportation process. Of course, I am a hardliner.
IMO, politics will increasingly have a malign influence on language, and English on other languages. Shorter words will be chosen by the Left as their political weapons, longer ones as their shields. That is why I advocate a full flight from the word “white” in the US and its replacement with the word “European.”
This was shared in a Facebook group. The Russian aerospace industry’s production is collapsing, due to the significant decrease of defense procurement.
https://www.rbc.ru/economics/06/04/2019/5ca72bfa9a7947fcb5c578f2
Combat jet production for MoD did not change much between 2017 and 2018: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116155/Replies: @reiner Tor
https://www.rbc.ru/economics/06/04/2019/5ca72bfa9a7947fcb5c578f2Replies: @Mitleser
Not really buying that.
Combat jet production for MoD did not change much between 2017 and 2018: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116155/
I still don’t understand it. They don’t simply want to block the S-400 deal, but also humiliate Erdogan. I also think that it’s a bit over the top. After all, I’m pretty sure that there are lots of opportunities in this for the Americans (they could observe the S-400 up close), and the official argument (that the Russians could learn the secrets of the F-35) is obviously bullcrap. I thought that now they made it perfectly clear that they won’t tolerate such purchases in the future, from the Turks or anyone else. But now they are risking their entire relationship with Turkey, which is probably Putin’s pipe dream. So why are they doing it?
On the other hand, I think this entails considerable risks for Russia, in that its sensitive military secrets could now fall into NATO hands. Which is still the most likely outcome. So maybe they should also let the Turks out of the deal? Maybe by requiring them to purchase Russian civilian airliners? So the money would still go to the Russian military-industrial complex.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
America’s strategy appears to be to degrade Russia’s military-industrial complex by starving it of export revenues.
This won’t work with Erdogan, but it will probably achieve its intended result by dissuading others from purchasing Russian weapons.
Either Pompeo and Bolton don’t care about America’s relationship with Turkey (my impression) or no they don’t believe Turkey will break with the West.
By pushing it further they might actually achieve the exact opposite: Turkey might resort to importing further Russian technologies to fill the gaps resulting from the coming American embargo, and they will probably in exchange share with the Russians the American (or indigenous) technologies that they already have.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
It is sad that they shot a lot in studio and did not capture more places on film.
I also appreciate the accents, though there was a tendency in America to make them up, and Britain had a definite preference for upper class ones.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
Although I was born long after that, I find it quaint that there was a time in post-war Northern Europe when the weirdest ethnics people could imagine were Greeks, Italians or Yugoslav guest workers, what with their oh-so-crazy food, religion and manners.
Apropos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU
Typical of educated Latin Americans. Educated people from Puerto Rico read those authors too.
This won't work with Erdogan, but it will probably achieve its intended result by dissuading others from purchasing Russian weapons.
Either Pompeo and Bolton don't care about America's relationship with Turkey (my impression) or no they don't believe Turkey will break with the West.Replies: @reiner Tor
Let me restate it: it has already achieved its intended results with others (so no reason to continue, time to give the Turks the same exemption the Indians received), and it probably already achieved that Turkey won’t by anything more from Russia, but it certainly won’t achieve the cancellation of this one business.
By pushing it further they might actually achieve the exact opposite: Turkey might resort to importing further Russian technologies to fill the gaps resulting from the coming American embargo, and they will probably in exchange share with the Russians the American (or indigenous) technologies that they already have.
One has to ask what threat the S-400 is intended to defend against.
While it's the premier long range surface to air missile system, presumably the Russians are better aware of how to defeat it than Western forces are.
This suggests that Turkey doesn't see Russia as being a threat and is actually defending itself from Western powers like Greece, Israel, the USA, France, and the UK.
From that angle they might as well go ahead and make things official. I've heard that Su-57 sales to Turkey are being discussed.
They also have an indigenous stealth fighter development program (though they are seeking foreign partnerships).
As for sharing American technology with Russia, I doubt they have anything valuable to share. Not like they can provide the source code of the Aegis BMD.
The real danger to American policy is what the general trend of aggression towards allies (sanctions, asset seizures, tariffs, etc.) will ultimately lead to. Sooner or later a more important country will decide to retaliate in unpleasant ways. Impossible to predict when or how this will occur.
America is a very powerful country but has a number of strategic vulnerabilities that could be exploited by angry allies.Replies: @Mitleser, @reiner Tor
I missed it. Apparently the American DoD plans to retire the USS Harry S. Truman decades early. This is pretty interesting. A similar proposal – blocked by Congress – was made for another carrier a few years ago.
This could be because carriers appear to be increasingly useless against near peer targets – their aircraft are relatively short range and thus either useless or the carrier needs to move within the enemy’s range. Apparently they are ramping up submarine production at the same time, which means they are truly worried about Chinese anti-ship missiles.
https://breakingdefense.com/2019/02/pentagon-to-retire-uss-truman-early-shrinking-carrier-fleet-to-10/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2019/03/15/plan-to-retire-uss-truman-early-makes-no-sense-which-is-why-the-navy-doesnt-really-want-to-do-it/
It's kind of a moot point anyway since we only have nine carrier air wings anyway, and these air wings have considerably shrunk in size and capability in the past generation.
Elements of the USN are concerned about Chinese "A2AD" weapons, but their official position is that CVBGs remain very difficult targets.
The Virginia-class submarine is one of the few major procurement successes in this century, and Electric Boat has successfully reduced both the time and cost it takes to deliver a new one. This industrial success is one of the reasons for increased procurement. SSNs are also viewed as useful in hunting down adversary submarine forces, enforcing blockades, and participating in SOCOM operations (important to stay "relevant").
Overall the Navy's force structure and doctrine is dictated by path dependency, domestic politics, and careerism. It is highly resistant to change. If pressed to explain its unsuitability for fighting China the Navy would probably blame Congress and the DoD for killing the A-12 and N-ATF programs in the 1990s.Replies: @reiner Tor
Combat jet production for MoD did not change much between 2017 and 2018: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116155/Replies: @reiner Tor
So is it factually false? The rbc.ru seems to be a mainstream Russian outlet.
For instance, the SSJ production significantly declined from 33 to 24, but that was not related to defense procurement.
Production of Su-30SM and Su-35 declined, but that was to be expected because state orders are mostly fulfilled and the focus is now shifting to the Su-57 whose serial production starts in 2019.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
Maybe Karlin plans to send us a million $ each after each post he posted in April so far.
The claim that “production is collapsing due to the significant decrease of defense procurement” is false.
For instance, the SSJ production significantly declined from 33 to 24, but that was not related to defense procurement.
Production of Su-30SM and Su-35 declined, but that was to be expected because state orders are mostly fulfilled and the focus is now shifting to the Su-57 whose serial production starts in 2019.
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6303731
So apparently there is a serious drop in production. What is going on? It’s interesting that Putin does very little to support the local aviation industry.Replies: @Mitleser
For instance, the SSJ production significantly declined from 33 to 24, but that was not related to defense procurement.
Production of Su-30SM and Su-35 declined, but that was to be expected because state orders are mostly fulfilled and the focus is now shifting to the Su-57 whose serial production starts in 2019.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
I see. Then did civilian production drop further in the first quarter of 2019?
This could be because carriers appear to be increasingly useless against near peer targets - their aircraft are relatively short range and thus either useless or the carrier needs to move within the enemy’s range. Apparently they are ramping up submarine production at the same time, which means they are truly worried about Chinese anti-ship missiles.
https://breakingdefense.com/2019/02/pentagon-to-retire-uss-truman-early-shrinking-carrier-fleet-to-10/Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson
On the other hand, here this guy says it’s stupid and won’t be done anyway. He also says that the navy has been planning for war against China and they know how to protect their assets, for example by destroying the Chinese “targeting complex,” which would be destroyed in the first hours of the war. Does anyone by any chance know what the “targeting complex” is, and how it is going to be destroyed? Is it the Chinese satellites?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2019/03/15/plan-to-retire-uss-truman-early-makes-no-sense-which-is-why-the-navy-doesnt-really-want-to-do-it/
India conducted an anti-satellite missile test a few days ago.
I’m scratching my head, but I really don’t see the point. Might have made sense when the US and the Soviet Union developed the capability, but now spy sats can be the size of brick cellphones – I guess the detail is limited (no license plates), but it is definitely enough to track a carrier or any shipping.
I guess you could take out large communication satellites, depriving the Middle East of their soaps, but creating a debris field up there would piss a lot of people off. In theory, detonating a nuke in space would be pretty effective, but would piss even more people off.
It would be relatively easy to destroy rocket infrastructure – the factories, the launching facilities, the brainpower. But then you are probably in a nuclear scenario. Truth be told, I really don’t see the point of war with China. To protect Taiwan’s right to become super-pozzed and Africanized? To protect the offshore mineral rights of countries with more rational claims?
IMO, carriers are white elephants, only good for bombing the Third World, which at least for the US and Russia (or anyone with energy reserves) has questionable utility. They were already made obsolete by MAD. They should be replaced with much smaller, drone-launching ships.
• Fat military procurement contracts
• Substantial career opportunities for officers, including many flag officer ranks
• Lucrative industry funded sinecures for policymakers and academics
• Empire by itself is fun and satisfies deep human desiresI'm receptive to the view that containing China within the Western Pacific increases American security, but the costs and risks of this need to be seriously assessed in light of possible alternatives. In a way this a very old argument. Charles Lindbergh always maintained that armed neutrality would be cheaper in blood and treasure for hemispheric defense.As far as carriers go, maybe. It has never actually been demonstrated that carriers are obsolete, only suggested. The same weapons which threaten carriers are themselves employed by carriers for both offense and defense, so in a way nothing has changed. That said US carrier battle groups are inappropriately designed, particularly their air wings. The alternative to carriers would be Doenitz's vision. More submarines and land-based aircraft, which also means more bases, tankers, etc. The Navy would probably point out that tankers and long-range bombers are a lot more vulnerable than CVBGs when operating far from allied basing.Replies: @songbird
By pushing it further they might actually achieve the exact opposite: Turkey might resort to importing further Russian technologies to fill the gaps resulting from the coming American embargo, and they will probably in exchange share with the Russians the American (or indigenous) technologies that they already have.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
The fact that Turkey wants the S-400 in itself is interesting.
One has to ask what threat the S-400 is intended to defend against.
While it’s the premier long range surface to air missile system, presumably the Russians are better aware of how to defeat it than Western forces are.
This suggests that Turkey doesn’t see Russia as being a threat and is actually defending itself from Western powers like Greece, Israel, the USA, France, and the UK.
From that angle they might as well go ahead and make things official. I’ve heard that Su-57 sales to Turkey are being discussed.
They also have an indigenous stealth fighter development program (though they are seeking foreign partnerships).
As for sharing American technology with Russia, I doubt they have anything valuable to share. Not like they can provide the source code of the Aegis BMD.
The real danger to American policy is what the general trend of aggression towards allies (sanctions, asset seizures, tariffs, etc.) will ultimately lead to. Sooner or later a more important country will decide to retaliate in unpleasant ways. Impossible to predict when or how this will occur.
America is a very powerful country but has a number of strategic vulnerabilities that could be exploited by angry allies.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeAR1WwAAnfCt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeCL1X0AUpPyY.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
One possible reason is Israel: the Americans have a more or less stated official policy of not letting any country in the Middle East be stronger than Israel, so they never sell the Muslims the latest military technologies. With Erdogan’s moderate (?) Islamism and general unreliability, they probably wanted to avoid a situation where Israel would face Turkish Patriot PAC3 and THAAD in Syria.
Another possible reason is simply the Turkish requirement for sharing technology and indigenous production.
Or they simply didn’t trust Erdogan or even Turkey in general (especially in light of the Turkish refusal to grant airspace for the invasion of Iraq in 2003), regardless of Israel.
Now, the Turks probably threatened that they would then buy from the Russians, and finally made good on their threats. Probably the biggest bang for the buck, though I think the Patriot PAC3 plus a THAAD provide better capabilities - albeit for something like five times the money. Except for the 400 km range, which is probably not very useful for the Americans. (Due to the shape of the Earth it only works against very high flying targets, and probably the Americans are correct to assume air superiority anyway.) Even if Turkey didn’t provide the most high tech components for the F-35 program, it still has some details and specifications. Its pilots are already receiving training, so presumably they have a lot of interesting things to tell about its vulnerabilities or as simple things as American tactics. There is something to it (I also read about East German air-to-air missiles and MiG-29 fighters which fell into the hands of the Bundeswehr: Soviet missiles worked better against Western fighters, and vice versa, presumably because both sides developed and tested their own defenses and countermeasures against their own weapons), but I don’t think there’s a silver bullet against any weapons system. The Russians had to fight Soviet (often Russian) weapons the hard way in Georgia and Ukraine, and presumably it’d be the same with the Turkish S-400. Similar to the issues Iranian F-14s posed to the US. But that’d defeat the purpose of the whole policy against Turkey: the policy intended to starve the Russian MIC of orders would end up providing it with a new customer as well as accelerating the Su-57 development. The Turks might even provide a few ideas or technologies from the F-35, though I already wrote that.
It’d also be great marketing for Russian military technology (or at least the S-400) if Turkey broke with the West merely to be able to buy it. If I were an American policy maker, I’d probably try to avoid such an outcome.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
This could be because carriers appear to be increasingly useless against near peer targets - their aircraft are relatively short range and thus either useless or the carrier needs to move within the enemy’s range. Apparently they are ramping up submarine production at the same time, which means they are truly worried about Chinese anti-ship missiles.
https://breakingdefense.com/2019/02/pentagon-to-retire-uss-truman-early-shrinking-carrier-fleet-to-10/Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson
The US Navy is required by law to maintain eleven carriers in operation. The Navy pulled this exact same stunt in 2016. The purpose of this stunt is to get Congress to increase its budget.
It’s kind of a moot point anyway since we only have nine carrier air wings anyway, and these air wings have considerably shrunk in size and capability in the past generation.
Elements of the USN are concerned about Chinese “A2AD” weapons, but their official position is that CVBGs remain very difficult targets.
The Virginia-class submarine is one of the few major procurement successes in this century, and Electric Boat has successfully reduced both the time and cost it takes to deliver a new one. This industrial success is one of the reasons for increased procurement. SSNs are also viewed as useful in hunting down adversary submarine forces, enforcing blockades, and participating in SOCOM operations (important to stay “relevant”).
Overall the Navy’s force structure and doctrine is dictated by path dependency, domestic politics, and careerism. It is highly resistant to change. If pressed to explain its unsuitability for fighting China the Navy would probably blame Congress and the DoD for killing the A-12 and N-ATF programs in the 1990s.
Don’t you know by any chance what the Forbes article talks about as the Chinese “targeting complex,” which would be immediately destroyed in a war?Replies: @Thorfinnsson
I'm scratching my head, but I really don't see the point. Might have made sense when the US and the Soviet Union developed the capability, but now spy sats can be the size of brick cellphones - I guess the detail is limited (no license plates), but it is definitely enough to track a carrier or any shipping.
I guess you could take out large communication satellites, depriving the Middle East of their soaps, but creating a debris field up there would piss a lot of people off. In theory, detonating a nuke in space would be pretty effective, but would piss even more people off.
It would be relatively easy to destroy rocket infrastructure - the factories, the launching facilities, the brainpower. But then you are probably in a nuclear scenario. Truth be told, I really don't see the point of war with China. To protect Taiwan's right to become super-pozzed and Africanized? To protect the offshore mineral rights of countries with more rational claims?
IMO, carriers are white elephants, only good for bombing the Third World, which at least for the US and Russia (or anyone with energy reserves) has questionable utility. They were already made obsolete by MAD. They should be replaced with much smaller, drone-launching ships.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @reiner Tor
The rational point of confronting China is that if China succeeds in driving US forces out of the Western Pacific and vassalizing America’s client states in the region it will then be in a position to project naval power into the Western hemisphere. The oldest constant of American strategy is to exclude rival powers from the Western hemisphere, and since the late 1930s it has been American policy to dominate the axial ends of Eurasia to prevent even the possibility of this.
The vassalization of American client states in the Western Pacific would also put them in a position to transfer extremely advanced technology to the PRC which is currently not permitted. I’m skeptical of how useful these technology export restrictions are (Japan and South Korea barely honor them and China is increasingly advanced on its own), but they’re taken seriously by US policymakers.
Less rationally (from a POV of national strategy) the China threat provides many benefits such as:
• Maintaining the status quo (change is hard and scary)
• Fat military procurement contracts
• Substantial career opportunities for officers, including many flag officer ranks
• Lucrative industry funded sinecures for policymakers and academics
• Empire by itself is fun and satisfies deep human desires
I’m receptive to the view that containing China within the Western Pacific increases American security, but the costs and risks of this need to be seriously assessed in light of possible alternatives. In a way this a very old argument. Charles Lindbergh always maintained that armed neutrality would be cheaper in blood and treasure for hemispheric defense.
As far as carriers go, maybe. It has never actually been demonstrated that carriers are obsolete, only suggested. The same weapons which threaten carriers are themselves employed by carriers for both offense and defense, so in a way nothing has changed. That said US carrier battle groups are inappropriately designed, particularly their air wings.
The alternative to carriers would be Doenitz’s vision. More submarines and land-based aircraft, which also means more bases, tankers, etc. The Navy would probably point out that tankers and long-range bombers are a lot more vulnerable than CVBGs when operating far from allied basing.
My preferred strategy would be to give the Japs nukes, and the Koreans an 8-year notice that we a pulling out. Savings would accrue to taxpayers, or else be invested in more realistic problems, like declining white fertility. (of course, the Cathedral would not admit this problem exists, so difficult to turn into US policy.)
The Chinese, of course, have a serious fertility problem. I think this makes them unlikely to be expansive, but as a general naval strategy, I think I would prefer more hulls for the same cost as a carrier.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson
One has to ask what threat the S-400 is intended to defend against.
While it's the premier long range surface to air missile system, presumably the Russians are better aware of how to defeat it than Western forces are.
This suggests that Turkey doesn't see Russia as being a threat and is actually defending itself from Western powers like Greece, Israel, the USA, France, and the UK.
From that angle they might as well go ahead and make things official. I've heard that Su-57 sales to Turkey are being discussed.
They also have an indigenous stealth fighter development program (though they are seeking foreign partnerships).
As for sharing American technology with Russia, I doubt they have anything valuable to share. Not like they can provide the source code of the Aegis BMD.
The real danger to American policy is what the general trend of aggression towards allies (sanctions, asset seizures, tariffs, etc.) will ultimately lead to. Sooner or later a more important country will decide to retaliate in unpleasant ways. Impossible to predict when or how this will occur.
America is a very powerful country but has a number of strategic vulnerabilities that could be exploited by angry allies.Replies: @Mitleser, @reiner Tor
Makes sense to me. I mean, some of Tom Clancy's scenarios were even more fantastical. But, still, I'd like see Turkey dropped as an ally. They are really just the successor to the Ottomans, more civilizationally at odds with us than the Russians ever were. Besides, I think having them in NATO encourages the people who want to incorporate them into Europe.Replies: @Mitleser
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeAR1WwAAnfCt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeCL1X0AUpPyY.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
To what extent does Erdogan’s strategic thinking reflect Turkish popular opinion?
One has to ask what threat the S-400 is intended to defend against.
While it's the premier long range surface to air missile system, presumably the Russians are better aware of how to defeat it than Western forces are.
This suggests that Turkey doesn't see Russia as being a threat and is actually defending itself from Western powers like Greece, Israel, the USA, France, and the UK.
From that angle they might as well go ahead and make things official. I've heard that Su-57 sales to Turkey are being discussed.
They also have an indigenous stealth fighter development program (though they are seeking foreign partnerships).
As for sharing American technology with Russia, I doubt they have anything valuable to share. Not like they can provide the source code of the Aegis BMD.
The real danger to American policy is what the general trend of aggression towards allies (sanctions, asset seizures, tariffs, etc.) will ultimately lead to. Sooner or later a more important country will decide to retaliate in unpleasant ways. Impossible to predict when or how this will occur.
America is a very powerful country but has a number of strategic vulnerabilities that could be exploited by angry allies.Replies: @Mitleser, @reiner Tor
It’s simple. They kept asking for a Patriot and maybe other stuff like THAAD, but the Americans kept throwing up hurdles.
One possible reason is Israel: the Americans have a more or less stated official policy of not letting any country in the Middle East be stronger than Israel, so they never sell the Muslims the latest military technologies. With Erdogan’s moderate (?) Islamism and general unreliability, they probably wanted to avoid a situation where Israel would face Turkish Patriot PAC3 and THAAD in Syria.
Another possible reason is simply the Turkish requirement for sharing technology and indigenous production.
Or they simply didn’t trust Erdogan or even Turkey in general (especially in light of the Turkish refusal to grant airspace for the invasion of Iraq in 2003), regardless of Israel.
Now, the Turks probably threatened that they would then buy from the Russians, and finally made good on their threats.
Probably the biggest bang for the buck, though I think the Patriot PAC3 plus a THAAD provide better capabilities – albeit for something like five times the money. Except for the 400 km range, which is probably not very useful for the Americans. (Due to the shape of the Earth it only works against very high flying targets, and probably the Americans are correct to assume air superiority anyway.)
Even if Turkey didn’t provide the most high tech components for the F-35 program, it still has some details and specifications. Its pilots are already receiving training, so presumably they have a lot of interesting things to tell about its vulnerabilities or as simple things as American tactics.
There is something to it (I also read about East German air-to-air missiles and MiG-29 fighters which fell into the hands of the Bundeswehr: Soviet missiles worked better against Western fighters, and vice versa, presumably because both sides developed and tested their own defenses and countermeasures against their own weapons), but I don’t think there’s a silver bullet against any weapons system. The Russians had to fight Soviet (often Russian) weapons the hard way in Georgia and Ukraine, and presumably it’d be the same with the Turkish S-400. Similar to the issues Iranian F-14s posed to the US.
But that’d defeat the purpose of the whole policy against Turkey: the policy intended to starve the Russian MIC of orders would end up providing it with a new customer as well as accelerating the Su-57 development. The Turks might even provide a few ideas or technologies from the F-35, though I already wrote that.
It’d also be great marketing for Russian military technology (or at least the S-400) if Turkey broke with the West merely to be able to buy it. If I were an American policy maker, I’d probably try to avoid such an outcome.
No American interests whatsoever are served by ensuring that Israeli forces are superior to Turkish ones.
In fact the reverse is true. Israel is a destabilizing, expansionist force in the Middle East which consistently harms America's relations with Islamic states that are more important to both America and especially our European allies.
I suppose the calculus has changed somewhat recently thanks to the new Israeli-KSA axis and Erdogan's own expansionism. But it hasn't changed enough to justify denying arms exports to Turkey, especially defensive systems.
Actually selling BMD systems to Turkey would be in line with American policy to create an assured nuclear first strike capability against Russian strategic forces. Admittedly this is an exceptionally stupid policy, but it's worth pointing out that selling BMD systems to Turkey would facilitate this policy. PAC3 and THAAD are optimized for BMD work and have inferior performance against combat aircraft. The S-400 also claims excellent BMD capabilities, though these claims are even less tested than America's questionable BMD claims.
No one will really know how well these systems will perform until the shooting starts, and it's unlikely that the contractors selling the systems would permit honest performance tests by foreign customers.
The long range of the S-400 is principally useful in area denial of supporting assets like tankers and AEWR aircraft. This is definitely useful against Americans, though presumably in a conflict with America our airpower would have access to Greek and British Cypriot basing reducing the reliance on tankers. This is true. Particularly useful information to Russians would be the performance of the aircraft's purportedly advanced avionics (especially sensor fusion) and also maintenance/overhaul requirements (which limit sortie generation).
That said the USAF itself doesn't believe the F-35 can compete against modern Russian fighters and has complained bitterly about this for the past decade. The more technologically complex a weapon is the more useful inside information is in fighting it. You have more of an inside edge fighting against your own SAMs than you do against, say, your own artillery. We'll see. I don't endorse this policy for a variety of reasons, but America has had considerable "success" lately with its weaponized sanctions. This probably leads American policymakers to believe they can successfully achieve their aims through bullying. If Turkey does go on to purchase Su-57s then this policy must be considered a failure.
I generally support a more commercially oriented foreign policy, and while denying competitors access to markets is part of that, the main plank should be promotion of our own export goods. If what you say about Patriot and THAAD sales to Turkey is correct, then we never should've come to this point to begin with.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
https://indianpunchline.com/us-israel-punish-turkeys-erdogan/
I'm scratching my head, but I really don't see the point. Might have made sense when the US and the Soviet Union developed the capability, but now spy sats can be the size of brick cellphones - I guess the detail is limited (no license plates), but it is definitely enough to track a carrier or any shipping.
I guess you could take out large communication satellites, depriving the Middle East of their soaps, but creating a debris field up there would piss a lot of people off. In theory, detonating a nuke in space would be pretty effective, but would piss even more people off.
It would be relatively easy to destroy rocket infrastructure - the factories, the launching facilities, the brainpower. But then you are probably in a nuclear scenario. Truth be told, I really don't see the point of war with China. To protect Taiwan's right to become super-pozzed and Africanized? To protect the offshore mineral rights of countries with more rational claims?
IMO, carriers are white elephants, only good for bombing the Third World, which at least for the US and Russia (or anyone with energy reserves) has questionable utility. They were already made obsolete by MAD. They should be replaced with much smaller, drone-launching ships.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @reiner Tor
Don’t they need bigger batteries? But for example destroying GPS/GLONASS/etc. systems is probably still doable.
Not sure on battery size. They have little solar arrays, so technically they are larger. But they are quite small, possible to produce on an assembly line, mostly from existing components, so they are relatively cheap (<$150,000 in the US, minus launch costs, but you can launch dozens on one medium-sized rocket, though it would take a while to deploy all for blanket coverage).
One drawback is they have limited lifespan (maybe, 2-3 years) because they need to be deployed low, and there's atmospheric drag even in space. Still, I think they make it a lot more practical to track fleets. IMO, only real countermeasure would be nukes. The radiation gets trapped in the Earth's magnetic field and cycles for a while, frying electronics. Makes me wonder about countermeasures, whether the big sats would be safe from that.
A nuke in space would probably destroy billions of dollars of assets owned by dozens of countries, as well as cause large scale economic disruption, so it may only be a scenario in WW3. But I suppose that's what it would be, if they were carrier-hunting. But then again, it might be like shooting yourself in the foot - taking out your own satellites. And it would possibly create a lot of trash, since existing sats might not be able to deorbit. I guess that is the danger of war in space - Kessler syndrome.Replies: @reiner Tor
It's kind of a moot point anyway since we only have nine carrier air wings anyway, and these air wings have considerably shrunk in size and capability in the past generation.
Elements of the USN are concerned about Chinese "A2AD" weapons, but their official position is that CVBGs remain very difficult targets.
The Virginia-class submarine is one of the few major procurement successes in this century, and Electric Boat has successfully reduced both the time and cost it takes to deliver a new one. This industrial success is one of the reasons for increased procurement. SSNs are also viewed as useful in hunting down adversary submarine forces, enforcing blockades, and participating in SOCOM operations (important to stay "relevant").
Overall the Navy's force structure and doctrine is dictated by path dependency, domestic politics, and careerism. It is highly resistant to change. If pressed to explain its unsuitability for fighting China the Navy would probably blame Congress and the DoD for killing the A-12 and N-ATF programs in the 1990s.Replies: @reiner Tor
Because one of the carriers is in overhaul/repairs/whatever anyway.
Don’t you know by any chance what the Forbes article talks about as the Chinese “targeting complex,” which would be immediately destroyed in a war?
The air wings have also gotten a lot smaller.
In addition to the legally-mandated 11 carriers, the Navy makes an effort to maximize capital ship hull numbers in order to maximize the number of flag rank officers.
Owing to the numerous costly procurement disasters in this century (LCS, Gerald Ford class, Zumwalt class), the Navy has made cuts elsewhere (air wings, mine warfare, weapons, etc.) in order to preserve its hull numbers. No, since he doesn't give specifics. I assume he means China's space-based assets because China doesn't yet have substantial maritime ISR assets like patrol aircraft, undersea sensors, ELINT vessels, etc.
So in a war China's space-based assets (which in any case have limited capability) would be destroyed by anti-satellite weapons, and its land and sea based ISR assets would be unable to venture far beyond the coast without being destroyed.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/space-surveillance.htm
The Soviet Navy had vast numbers of maritime patrol aircraft and even the capability to launch on demand polar-orbit reconnaissance satellites to track NATO fleets.
In a conflict with the US China would quickly be unable to find American fleets except with its nuclear submarines, which would be outnumbered by American ones.
The PLAN is of course aware of these deficiencies and working to correct them.
I also assume China has cultivated other forms of naval intelligence deriving from its huge oceanic commerce.Replies: @reiner Tor
I find it quaint that there was a time in post-war Northern Europe when the weirdest ethnics people could imagine were Greeks, Italians or Yugoslav guest workers
Apropos:
One possible reason is Israel: the Americans have a more or less stated official policy of not letting any country in the Middle East be stronger than Israel, so they never sell the Muslims the latest military technologies. With Erdogan’s moderate (?) Islamism and general unreliability, they probably wanted to avoid a situation where Israel would face Turkish Patriot PAC3 and THAAD in Syria.
Another possible reason is simply the Turkish requirement for sharing technology and indigenous production.
Or they simply didn’t trust Erdogan or even Turkey in general (especially in light of the Turkish refusal to grant airspace for the invasion of Iraq in 2003), regardless of Israel.
Now, the Turks probably threatened that they would then buy from the Russians, and finally made good on their threats. Probably the biggest bang for the buck, though I think the Patriot PAC3 plus a THAAD provide better capabilities - albeit for something like five times the money. Except for the 400 km range, which is probably not very useful for the Americans. (Due to the shape of the Earth it only works against very high flying targets, and probably the Americans are correct to assume air superiority anyway.) Even if Turkey didn’t provide the most high tech components for the F-35 program, it still has some details and specifications. Its pilots are already receiving training, so presumably they have a lot of interesting things to tell about its vulnerabilities or as simple things as American tactics. There is something to it (I also read about East German air-to-air missiles and MiG-29 fighters which fell into the hands of the Bundeswehr: Soviet missiles worked better against Western fighters, and vice versa, presumably because both sides developed and tested their own defenses and countermeasures against their own weapons), but I don’t think there’s a silver bullet against any weapons system. The Russians had to fight Soviet (often Russian) weapons the hard way in Georgia and Ukraine, and presumably it’d be the same with the Turkish S-400. Similar to the issues Iranian F-14s posed to the US. But that’d defeat the purpose of the whole policy against Turkey: the policy intended to starve the Russian MIC of orders would end up providing it with a new customer as well as accelerating the Su-57 development. The Turks might even provide a few ideas or technologies from the F-35, though I already wrote that.
It’d also be great marketing for Russian military technology (or at least the S-400) if Turkey broke with the West merely to be able to buy it. If I were an American policy maker, I’d probably try to avoid such an outcome.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
If this is true then it goes to show just how much America’s relationship with this very special country harms us.
No American interests whatsoever are served by ensuring that Israeli forces are superior to Turkish ones.
In fact the reverse is true. Israel is a destabilizing, expansionist force in the Middle East which consistently harms America’s relations with Islamic states that are more important to both America and especially our European allies.
I suppose the calculus has changed somewhat recently thanks to the new Israeli-KSA axis and Erdogan’s own expansionism. But it hasn’t changed enough to justify denying arms exports to Turkey, especially defensive systems.
Actually selling BMD systems to Turkey would be in line with American policy to create an assured nuclear first strike capability against Russian strategic forces. Admittedly this is an exceptionally stupid policy, but it’s worth pointing out that selling BMD systems to Turkey would facilitate this policy.
PAC3 and THAAD are optimized for BMD work and have inferior performance against combat aircraft. The S-400 also claims excellent BMD capabilities, though these claims are even less tested than America’s questionable BMD claims.
No one will really know how well these systems will perform until the shooting starts, and it’s unlikely that the contractors selling the systems would permit honest performance tests by foreign customers.
The long range of the S-400 is principally useful in area denial of supporting assets like tankers and AEWR aircraft. This is definitely useful against Americans, though presumably in a conflict with America our airpower would have access to Greek and British Cypriot basing reducing the reliance on tankers.
This is true. Particularly useful information to Russians would be the performance of the aircraft’s purportedly advanced avionics (especially sensor fusion) and also maintenance/overhaul requirements (which limit sortie generation).
That said the USAF itself doesn’t believe the F-35 can compete against modern Russian fighters and has complained bitterly about this for the past decade.
The more technologically complex a weapon is the more useful inside information is in fighting it. You have more of an inside edge fighting against your own SAMs than you do against, say, your own artillery.
We’ll see. I don’t endorse this policy for a variety of reasons, but America has had considerable “success” lately with its weaponized sanctions. This probably leads American policymakers to believe they can successfully achieve their aims through bullying. If Turkey does go on to purchase Su-57s then this policy must be considered a failure.
I generally support a more commercially oriented foreign policy, and while denying competitors access to markets is part of that, the main plank should be promotion of our own export goods. If what you say about Patriot and THAAD sales to Turkey is correct, then we never should’ve come to this point to begin with.
Don’t you know by any chance what the Forbes article talks about as the Chinese “targeting complex,” which would be immediately destroyed in a war?Replies: @Thorfinnsson
That’s true, but there used to be a carrier air wing for every carrier. This was considered useful for replacing losses at sea in war, and it also allowed for more differential combat training time at Top Gun.
The air wings have also gotten a lot smaller.
In addition to the legally-mandated 11 carriers, the Navy makes an effort to maximize capital ship hull numbers in order to maximize the number of flag rank officers.
Owing to the numerous costly procurement disasters in this century (LCS, Gerald Ford class, Zumwalt class), the Navy has made cuts elsewhere (air wings, mine warfare, weapons, etc.) in order to preserve its hull numbers.
No, since he doesn’t give specifics. I assume he means China’s space-based assets because China doesn’t yet have substantial maritime ISR assets like patrol aircraft, undersea sensors, ELINT vessels, etc.
So in a war China’s space-based assets (which in any case have limited capability) would be destroyed by anti-satellite weapons, and its land and sea based ISR assets would be unable to venture far beyond the coast without being destroyed.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/space-surveillance.htm
The Soviet Navy had vast numbers of maritime patrol aircraft and even the capability to launch on demand polar-orbit reconnaissance satellites to track NATO fleets.
In a conflict with the US China would quickly be unable to find American fleets except with its nuclear submarines, which would be outnumbered by American ones.
The PLAN is of course aware of these deficiencies and working to correct them.
I also assume China has cultivated other forms of naval intelligence deriving from its huge oceanic commerce.
You can use small fishing or commercial vessels for this purpose in a smaller war, but I doubt in a serious war with China (which is basically a world war already, or almost a world war) they would run that risk.
But I still don't get the US Navy's confidence here. I'd guess the Chinese have prepared spy satellites with their launchers (shouldn't be bigger than an ICBM, in fact smaller), which could then be used to launch such satellites very quickly and dispatch the information to the ASM sites. Unless the low flying satellites could be destroyed immediately the Chinese can already easily target. And even if they manage to take it down within a few minutes of the launch (by that time the important information could easily be dispatched to the ASM sites), the Chinese can launch another one shortly before the anti-ship missile arrives within a few minutes of the target area and dispatch the updated position of the naval vessels in question.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
No American interests whatsoever are served by ensuring that Israeli forces are superior to Turkish ones.
In fact the reverse is true. Israel is a destabilizing, expansionist force in the Middle East which consistently harms America's relations with Islamic states that are more important to both America and especially our European allies.
I suppose the calculus has changed somewhat recently thanks to the new Israeli-KSA axis and Erdogan's own expansionism. But it hasn't changed enough to justify denying arms exports to Turkey, especially defensive systems.
Actually selling BMD systems to Turkey would be in line with American policy to create an assured nuclear first strike capability against Russian strategic forces. Admittedly this is an exceptionally stupid policy, but it's worth pointing out that selling BMD systems to Turkey would facilitate this policy. PAC3 and THAAD are optimized for BMD work and have inferior performance against combat aircraft. The S-400 also claims excellent BMD capabilities, though these claims are even less tested than America's questionable BMD claims.
No one will really know how well these systems will perform until the shooting starts, and it's unlikely that the contractors selling the systems would permit honest performance tests by foreign customers.
The long range of the S-400 is principally useful in area denial of supporting assets like tankers and AEWR aircraft. This is definitely useful against Americans, though presumably in a conflict with America our airpower would have access to Greek and British Cypriot basing reducing the reliance on tankers. This is true. Particularly useful information to Russians would be the performance of the aircraft's purportedly advanced avionics (especially sensor fusion) and also maintenance/overhaul requirements (which limit sortie generation).
That said the USAF itself doesn't believe the F-35 can compete against modern Russian fighters and has complained bitterly about this for the past decade. The more technologically complex a weapon is the more useful inside information is in fighting it. You have more of an inside edge fighting against your own SAMs than you do against, say, your own artillery. We'll see. I don't endorse this policy for a variety of reasons, but America has had considerable "success" lately with its weaponized sanctions. This probably leads American policymakers to believe they can successfully achieve their aims through bullying. If Turkey does go on to purchase Su-57s then this policy must be considered a failure.
I generally support a more commercially oriented foreign policy, and while denying competitors access to markets is part of that, the main plank should be promotion of our own export goods. If what you say about Patriot and THAAD sales to Turkey is correct, then we never should've come to this point to begin with.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
I’m sure the Turks wanted to buy the Patriot PAC3, I’m not sure about the THAAD, I only mentioned it, because without it the Patriot doesn’t provide equivalent capabilities.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeAR1WwAAnfCt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfeCL1X0AUpPyY.jpgReplies: @Thorfinnsson, @songbird
A number of years ago – perhaps during Bush 43 – there was a Turkish bestseller in the fashion of a Tom Clancy novel, where a foreign enemy invaded Turkey and was driven out by patriotic Turks. The foreign enemy was the USA.
Makes sense to me. I mean, some of Tom Clancy’s scenarios were even more fantastical. But, still, I’d like see Turkey dropped as an ally. They are really just the successor to the Ottomans, more civilizationally at odds with us than the Russians ever were. Besides, I think having them in NATO encourages the people who want to incorporate them into Europe.
They will only leave if they want to.Replies: @reiner Tor
Good point about GPS.
Not sure on battery size. They have little solar arrays, so technically they are larger. But they are quite small, possible to produce on an assembly line, mostly from existing components, so they are relatively cheap (<$150,000 in the US, minus launch costs, but you can launch dozens on one medium-sized rocket, though it would take a while to deploy all for blanket coverage).
One drawback is they have limited lifespan (maybe, 2-3 years) because they need to be deployed low, and there's atmospheric drag even in space. Still, I think they make it a lot more practical to track fleets. IMO, only real countermeasure would be nukes. The radiation gets trapped in the Earth's magnetic field and cycles for a while, frying electronics. Makes me wonder about countermeasures, whether the big sats would be safe from that.
A nuke in space would probably destroy billions of dollars of assets owned by dozens of countries, as well as cause large scale economic disruption, so it may only be a scenario in WW3. But I suppose that's what it would be, if they were carrier-hunting. But then again, it might be like shooting yourself in the foot – taking out your own satellites. And it would possibly create a lot of trash, since existing sats might not be able to deorbit. I guess that is the danger of war in space – Kessler syndrome.
I’m very cautious declaring things about military technology, because in the past I have made statements and predictions which turned out to be less sure to be true later on.
Even the American strike against Syria last April. A lot of us here (including me) then concluded that the Russians or Syrians might have downed a large number of Tomahawks. I think it’s pretty unlikely at this point that the Russian version was true. We have not seen any signs of downed missiles, except two of them. I think it’s likely that the vast majority of the missiles or bombs hit their intended targets. (Even if those targets were stupid things like empty warehouses.)
• Fat military procurement contracts
• Substantial career opportunities for officers, including many flag officer ranks
• Lucrative industry funded sinecures for policymakers and academics
• Empire by itself is fun and satisfies deep human desiresI'm receptive to the view that containing China within the Western Pacific increases American security, but the costs and risks of this need to be seriously assessed in light of possible alternatives. In a way this a very old argument. Charles Lindbergh always maintained that armed neutrality would be cheaper in blood and treasure for hemispheric defense.As far as carriers go, maybe. It has never actually been demonstrated that carriers are obsolete, only suggested. The same weapons which threaten carriers are themselves employed by carriers for both offense and defense, so in a way nothing has changed. That said US carrier battle groups are inappropriately designed, particularly their air wings. The alternative to carriers would be Doenitz's vision. More submarines and land-based aircraft, which also means more bases, tankers, etc. The Navy would probably point out that tankers and long-range bombers are a lot more vulnerable than CVBGs when operating far from allied basing.Replies: @songbird
Good point about the MIC.
My preferred strategy would be to give the Japs nukes, and the Koreans an 8-year notice that we a pulling out. Savings would accrue to taxpayers, or else be invested in more realistic problems, like declining white fertility. (of course, the Cathedral would not admit this problem exists, so difficult to turn into US policy.)
The Chinese, of course, have a serious fertility problem. I think this makes them unlikely to be expansive, but as a general naval strategy, I think I would prefer more hulls for the same cost as a carrier.
It’s probably not possible to allow Japan to build nukes, but keep the NPT for others.
As Reiner Tor stated, actually encouraging the overthrow of the NPT is likely to have dubious global consequences. Admittedly this might be inevitable, but not a good idea to give it a push.
The solution to Korea is a denuclearized, neutralized, and unified federal Korean state with security guaranteed by China, Russia, Japan, and the United States. This country will be a de facto Chinese vassal, but that's better than the destabilizing presence of American forces on the Korean peninsula.
I think the Japanese alliance is worth maintaining provided that the Japanese respect our commercial interests. Historically they have not done so, but this was done with the connivance of American policymakers and in the absence of a substantial Chinese threat.
Taiwan is unwilling to even defend itself and as such should simply be sold to China. Chinese aeronaval forces on Taiwan are undesirable, but the present situation is inherently unstable and likely to lead to war.
Taiwan is undergoing ethnogenesis and pozzing at the same time. This has the potential to lead to a Catalonian-style FUCK YOU DAD independence movement which would lead the PRC to declare war. Today Taiwan still has some possibility of winning that war (seriously), but that won't be true much longer. As you hinted at earlier, going to war to protect a bunch of faggots isn't a bright idea even if we win.
The deterioration of the geographic situation can be dealt with by (further) militarizing the island chains of the Central Pacific. Potentially the Philippines can be drawn once again into the American orbit.
A Chinese annexation of Taiwan is also likely to cause internal problems with digestion and a further deterioration of its relations with neighboring states.
I suppose one downside of selling Taiwan to China is how other Asian countries would perceive America in the aftermath. Will the FAKE AND GAY argument be accepted by policymakers in other countries?
Not sure on battery size. They have little solar arrays, so technically they are larger. But they are quite small, possible to produce on an assembly line, mostly from existing components, so they are relatively cheap (<$150,000 in the US, minus launch costs, but you can launch dozens on one medium-sized rocket, though it would take a while to deploy all for blanket coverage).
One drawback is they have limited lifespan (maybe, 2-3 years) because they need to be deployed low, and there's atmospheric drag even in space. Still, I think they make it a lot more practical to track fleets. IMO, only real countermeasure would be nukes. The radiation gets trapped in the Earth's magnetic field and cycles for a while, frying electronics. Makes me wonder about countermeasures, whether the big sats would be safe from that.
A nuke in space would probably destroy billions of dollars of assets owned by dozens of countries, as well as cause large scale economic disruption, so it may only be a scenario in WW3. But I suppose that's what it would be, if they were carrier-hunting. But then again, it might be like shooting yourself in the foot - taking out your own satellites. And it would possibly create a lot of trash, since existing sats might not be able to deorbit. I guess that is the danger of war in space - Kessler syndrome.Replies: @reiner Tor
I’m not sure small satellites cannot be found and destroyed one by one. A lot of it is just a question of electronics, which is way better now than it was during the Cold War.
I’m very cautious declaring things about military technology, because in the past I have made statements and predictions which turned out to be less sure to be true later on.
Even the American strike against Syria last April. A lot of us here (including me) then concluded that the Russians or Syrians might have downed a large number of Tomahawks. I think it’s pretty unlikely at this point that the Russian version was true. We have not seen any signs of downed missiles, except two of them. I think it’s likely that the vast majority of the missiles or bombs hit their intended targets. (Even if those targets were stupid things like empty warehouses.)
My preferred strategy would be to give the Japs nukes, and the Koreans an 8-year notice that we a pulling out. Savings would accrue to taxpayers, or else be invested in more realistic problems, like declining white fertility. (of course, the Cathedral would not admit this problem exists, so difficult to turn into US policy.)
The Chinese, of course, have a serious fertility problem. I think this makes them unlikely to be expansive, but as a general naval strategy, I think I would prefer more hulls for the same cost as a carrier.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson
Scrapping the NPT has lots of drawbacks. The larger the number of nuclear powers (and nukes), the larger the probability of a nuclear war. Even if it wouldn’t end the world, it’d be pretty horrible. A local nuclear conflict would lower the nuclear threshold among other nuclear powers as well.
It’s probably not possible to allow Japan to build nukes, but keep the NPT for others.
Makes sense to me. I mean, some of Tom Clancy's scenarios were even more fantastical. But, still, I'd like see Turkey dropped as an ally. They are really just the successor to the Ottomans, more civilizationally at odds with us than the Russians ever were. Besides, I think having them in NATO encourages the people who want to incorporate them into Europe.Replies: @Mitleser
I don’t think there is a way to kick them out of NATO.
They will only leave if they want to.
I found this on the Russian civilian aviation industry and the lack of government support for it.
https://southfront.org/mc-21-project-and-strange-logic-of-russian-government/
But it is not. http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russian-government-allocates-additional-10-5-billion-roubles-mc-21-project/Replies: @reiner Tor
For instance, the SSJ production significantly declined from 33 to 24, but that was not related to defense procurement.
Production of Su-30SM and Su-35 declined, but that was to be expected because state orders are mostly fulfilled and the focus is now shifting to the Su-57 whose serial production starts in 2019.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
The guy also shared this:
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6303731
So apparently there is a serious drop in production. What is going on? It’s interesting that Putin does very little to support the local aviation industry.
They will only leave if they want to.Replies: @reiner Tor
It’d be possible if there was a political will. It’s like saying that the mugger cannot legally take your possessions. Mkay.
My preferred strategy would be to give the Japs nukes, and the Koreans an 8-year notice that we a pulling out. Savings would accrue to taxpayers, or else be invested in more realistic problems, like declining white fertility. (of course, the Cathedral would not admit this problem exists, so difficult to turn into US policy.)
The Chinese, of course, have a serious fertility problem. I think this makes them unlikely to be expansive, but as a general naval strategy, I think I would prefer more hulls for the same cost as a carrier.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Thorfinnsson
Japan is a paranuclear state as it is. It possesses ample stocks of weapons-grade material, a complete nuclear-industrial base, and even the appropriate delivery systems (Japan has solid-fuel ballistic missiles and reentry vehicles). This is well known to everyone, and in fact Iran has stated that its strategic goal is to be like Japan.
As Reiner Tor stated, actually encouraging the overthrow of the NPT is likely to have dubious global consequences. Admittedly this might be inevitable, but not a good idea to give it a push.
The solution to Korea is a denuclearized, neutralized, and unified federal Korean state with security guaranteed by China, Russia, Japan, and the United States. This country will be a de facto Chinese vassal, but that’s better than the destabilizing presence of American forces on the Korean peninsula.
I think the Japanese alliance is worth maintaining provided that the Japanese respect our commercial interests. Historically they have not done so, but this was done with the connivance of American policymakers and in the absence of a substantial Chinese threat.
Taiwan is unwilling to even defend itself and as such should simply be sold to China. Chinese aeronaval forces on Taiwan are undesirable, but the present situation is inherently unstable and likely to lead to war.
Taiwan is undergoing ethnogenesis and pozzing at the same time. This has the potential to lead to a Catalonian-style FUCK YOU DAD independence movement which would lead the PRC to declare war. Today Taiwan still has some possibility of winning that war (seriously), but that won’t be true much longer. As you hinted at earlier, going to war to protect a bunch of faggots isn’t a bright idea even if we win.
The deterioration of the geographic situation can be dealt with by (further) militarizing the island chains of the Central Pacific. Potentially the Philippines can be drawn once again into the American orbit.
A Chinese annexation of Taiwan is also likely to cause internal problems with digestion and a further deterioration of its relations with neighboring states.
I suppose one downside of selling Taiwan to China is how other Asian countries would perceive America in the aftermath. Will the FAKE AND GAY argument be accepted by policymakers in other countries?
https://southfront.org/mc-21-project-and-strange-logic-of-russian-government/Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Mitleser
I’m reminded of the failure of Britain’s postwar industrial strategy for airliners.
For some strange reason the government refused to compel BOAC to purchase British aircraft. BOAC purchased Lockheed Connies, Boeing Stratocruisers, Douglas DC-4s and DC-7s, and finally of course Boeing 707s.
This was done despite a chronic shortage of Dollars, the existence of suitable British types (or types with development potential), and the existence of a government industrial strategy to compete in the world airliner market (the Brabazon Committee).
The acquisition of large, pressurized American airliners immediately after the end of the war was perhaps justifiable as British equivalents did not yet exist (the Avro Tudor was much smaller than the Connie). Continuing to purchase American aircraft in the ’50s was absurd. Even the Bristol Brabazon, supposedly a white elephant, probably could’ve succeeded with a high capacity cabin layout (instead of only carrying 2/3rd more passengers than a Connie in a plane the size of a modern wide body).
In light of the fact that BOAC was owned by the crown and that Sterling was not freely convertible in this era, it would’ve been exceedingly simple to force BOAC to purchase British aircraft.
In the end only the Vickers Viscount became a major success.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9507019/Jet-When-Britain-Ruled-the-Skies-BBC-Four-review.html
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6303731
So apparently there is a serious drop in production. What is going on? It’s interesting that Putin does very little to support the local aviation industry.Replies: @Mitleser
Why did he share that? That is just TASS quoting the RBC article.
https://southfront.org/mc-21-project-and-strange-logic-of-russian-government/Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @Mitleser
I would call that lack of government support if the MC-21 serial production was already reality
But it is not.
http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russian-government-allocates-additional-10-5-billion-roubles-mc-21-project/
It is sad that they shot a lot in studio and did not capture more places on film.
I also appreciate the accents, though there was a tendency in America to make them up, and Britain had a definite preference for upper class ones.Replies: @Hyperborean, @Dmitry
I saw this old Hollywood film last month, Mr Hack recommended: “Cat on a hot tin roof”.
The grammar of how they speak sometimes was different to modern English.
I thought it is more informal, missing some words, sometimes not saying the subject of the sentence, and more difficult to understand for parts. There is a section here:
In “Cat on a hot tin roof”, blacks are there only as servants.
I'm generally not too big on theatrical adaptations. I feel they are overacted. And generally, I think that the political compass of theater is even worse than Hollywood. I recall seeing "The Merchant of Venice" in a theater when I was a kid - two men French kissed. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, is really exceptionally gay - of course a lot of that is based of musicals, which is probably even worse than theater.Replies: @Dmitry
The accents in the film are decidedly Southern ones, hence the ‘difference from modern English’. Whenever I think I have it bad as a single man, I just need to revisit this film and remember the ‘bliss of married life’. Thorfinnsson, no doubt would enjoy watching it too, as Elizabeth Taylor gives a great performance (and her rack looks quite nice too!) 🙂
isn’t that cute, its always about “fear”
if i dont get my way its because all of you are cowards
Some people asked for more sources.
Tennessee Williams is not somebody I’d be recommending for an intermediate English learner; his stuff is too heavy in colloquialisms and metaphors and figures of speech. And he’s even harder to parse in film than in written form. Most modern Americans wouldn’t really understand what his characters are saying.
No American interests whatsoever are served by ensuring that Israeli forces are superior to Turkish ones.
In fact the reverse is true. Israel is a destabilizing, expansionist force in the Middle East which consistently harms America's relations with Islamic states that are more important to both America and especially our European allies.
I suppose the calculus has changed somewhat recently thanks to the new Israeli-KSA axis and Erdogan's own expansionism. But it hasn't changed enough to justify denying arms exports to Turkey, especially defensive systems.
Actually selling BMD systems to Turkey would be in line with American policy to create an assured nuclear first strike capability against Russian strategic forces. Admittedly this is an exceptionally stupid policy, but it's worth pointing out that selling BMD systems to Turkey would facilitate this policy. PAC3 and THAAD are optimized for BMD work and have inferior performance against combat aircraft. The S-400 also claims excellent BMD capabilities, though these claims are even less tested than America's questionable BMD claims.
No one will really know how well these systems will perform until the shooting starts, and it's unlikely that the contractors selling the systems would permit honest performance tests by foreign customers.
The long range of the S-400 is principally useful in area denial of supporting assets like tankers and AEWR aircraft. This is definitely useful against Americans, though presumably in a conflict with America our airpower would have access to Greek and British Cypriot basing reducing the reliance on tankers. This is true. Particularly useful information to Russians would be the performance of the aircraft's purportedly advanced avionics (especially sensor fusion) and also maintenance/overhaul requirements (which limit sortie generation).
That said the USAF itself doesn't believe the F-35 can compete against modern Russian fighters and has complained bitterly about this for the past decade. The more technologically complex a weapon is the more useful inside information is in fighting it. You have more of an inside edge fighting against your own SAMs than you do against, say, your own artillery. We'll see. I don't endorse this policy for a variety of reasons, but America has had considerable "success" lately with its weaponized sanctions. This probably leads American policymakers to believe they can successfully achieve their aims through bullying. If Turkey does go on to purchase Su-57s then this policy must be considered a failure.
I generally support a more commercially oriented foreign policy, and while denying competitors access to markets is part of that, the main plank should be promotion of our own export goods. If what you say about Patriot and THAAD sales to Turkey is correct, then we never should've come to this point to begin with.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
I think PAC1 was already fairly good against combat aircraft. Yes, THAAD is mostly for anti-missile defense.
The air wings have also gotten a lot smaller.
In addition to the legally-mandated 11 carriers, the Navy makes an effort to maximize capital ship hull numbers in order to maximize the number of flag rank officers.
Owing to the numerous costly procurement disasters in this century (LCS, Gerald Ford class, Zumwalt class), the Navy has made cuts elsewhere (air wings, mine warfare, weapons, etc.) in order to preserve its hull numbers. No, since he doesn't give specifics. I assume he means China's space-based assets because China doesn't yet have substantial maritime ISR assets like patrol aircraft, undersea sensors, ELINT vessels, etc.
So in a war China's space-based assets (which in any case have limited capability) would be destroyed by anti-satellite weapons, and its land and sea based ISR assets would be unable to venture far beyond the coast without being destroyed.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/space-surveillance.htm
The Soviet Navy had vast numbers of maritime patrol aircraft and even the capability to launch on demand polar-orbit reconnaissance satellites to track NATO fleets.
In a conflict with the US China would quickly be unable to find American fleets except with its nuclear submarines, which would be outnumbered by American ones.
The PLAN is of course aware of these deficiencies and working to correct them.
I also assume China has cultivated other forms of naval intelligence deriving from its huge oceanic commerce.Replies: @reiner Tor
Could they use it in a war? I seriously doubt it. I think in a war zone, all commercial vessels would be told to leave on short notice, and probably they’d be sunk by patrolling American aircraft and naval vessels immediately (and if there’s an international scandal, they’d blame the Chinese for it).
You can use small fishing or commercial vessels for this purpose in a smaller war, but I doubt in a serious war with China (which is basically a world war already, or almost a world war) they would run that risk.
But I still don’t get the US Navy’s confidence here. I’d guess the Chinese have prepared spy satellites with their launchers (shouldn’t be bigger than an ICBM, in fact smaller), which could then be used to launch such satellites very quickly and dispatch the information to the ASM sites. Unless the low flying satellites could be destroyed immediately the Chinese can already easily target. And even if they manage to take it down within a few minutes of the launch (by that time the important information could easily be dispatched to the ASM sites), the Chinese can launch another one shortly before the anti-ship missile arrives within a few minutes of the target area and dispatch the updated position of the naval vessels in question.
The value of these ships once war broke out would of course be low. Some of the ships might be camouflaged as vessels belonging to neutral merchant marines which would allow for wartime intelligence until boarded by American warships.
I'm not aware of the PLAN having developed naval tracking polar satellites that can be launched on demand. This capability of the Soviet Navy was known during the Cold War. That said, obviously China has the capability to develop such systems and could have done so in secret. But I doubt it would keep such a system secret unless it actually wants war with America. Another problem with such secret satellites is that they cannot have been tested, as otherwise their existence immediately becomes known to the US and Japan.
Soviet satellites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
China does have its Huanjing disaster monitoring satellites, but these are intended for a higher orbit than the US-A. Additionally they only have about a dozen of them.
American confidence is due to the usual wishful thinking and our successful history of naval warfare. The Pacific War is to the US Navy what Trafalgar is to the Royal Navy.
I agree that this confidence is unwarranted, especially going forward. I am not in favor of war with China, but there's a certain logic to Steve Bannon's desire for war with China in the next five years.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
Whilst the Viscount, Comet and VC 10 were all innovative ultimately only the Viscount racked up significant sales, with the others being flawed in some way deterring international buyers. BOAC had to compete internationally and couldn’t carry the British commercial airliner industry on its own. There was a good documentary on this recently.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9507019/Jet-When-Britain-Ruled-the-Skies-BBC-Four-review.html
Reiner Tor, as our resident Hungarian, could you perhaps give a description of Mi Hazánk and what their political position in relation to Jobbik and Fidesz is?
One possible reason is Israel: the Americans have a more or less stated official policy of not letting any country in the Middle East be stronger than Israel, so they never sell the Muslims the latest military technologies. With Erdogan’s moderate (?) Islamism and general unreliability, they probably wanted to avoid a situation where Israel would face Turkish Patriot PAC3 and THAAD in Syria.
Another possible reason is simply the Turkish requirement for sharing technology and indigenous production.
Or they simply didn’t trust Erdogan or even Turkey in general (especially in light of the Turkish refusal to grant airspace for the invasion of Iraq in 2003), regardless of Israel.
Now, the Turks probably threatened that they would then buy from the Russians, and finally made good on their threats. Probably the biggest bang for the buck, though I think the Patriot PAC3 plus a THAAD provide better capabilities - albeit for something like five times the money. Except for the 400 km range, which is probably not very useful for the Americans. (Due to the shape of the Earth it only works against very high flying targets, and probably the Americans are correct to assume air superiority anyway.) Even if Turkey didn’t provide the most high tech components for the F-35 program, it still has some details and specifications. Its pilots are already receiving training, so presumably they have a lot of interesting things to tell about its vulnerabilities or as simple things as American tactics. There is something to it (I also read about East German air-to-air missiles and MiG-29 fighters which fell into the hands of the Bundeswehr: Soviet missiles worked better against Western fighters, and vice versa, presumably because both sides developed and tested their own defenses and countermeasures against their own weapons), but I don’t think there’s a silver bullet against any weapons system. The Russians had to fight Soviet (often Russian) weapons the hard way in Georgia and Ukraine, and presumably it’d be the same with the Turkish S-400. Similar to the issues Iranian F-14s posed to the US. But that’d defeat the purpose of the whole policy against Turkey: the policy intended to starve the Russian MIC of orders would end up providing it with a new customer as well as accelerating the Su-57 development. The Turks might even provide a few ideas or technologies from the F-35, though I already wrote that.
It’d also be great marketing for Russian military technology (or at least the S-400) if Turkey broke with the West merely to be able to buy it. If I were an American policy maker, I’d probably try to avoid such an outcome.Replies: @Thorfinnsson, @LondonBob
The Israelis detest Erdogan, hence the neocon dislike. Pompeii and Bolton do not inhabit the real world so think they can kick Turkey about without consequences.
https://indianpunchline.com/us-israel-punish-turkeys-erdogan/
They are a splinter group of Jobbik. Jobbik has been moving to the left, and those are people who got fed up with it after a point. They theoretically criticize both the leftist opposition and Orbán, but in the National Assembly they have so far mostly supported Orbán.
I now read a little bit of their program (for the EU elections), and their idea is a “Northern Civilization” (as opposed to Western Civilization), which includes all European countries (and Cyprus) except Turkey, so Russia is included, too. I would have expected them to stupidly include Kazakhstan based on our common nomadic roots or something, but at least on the map they didn’t – while in the text they say that they include or countries of Europe and Eurasia with Christian roots (the map interestingly excludes Georgia or Armenia, though), it’s even wider in their idea (so, Kazakhstan should be included). They also say in the first paragraph that they are equally proud of the history of the thousand years of Western and Christian culture and the previous “wild” (the exact word they use is often used to describe wild, unbroken horses; so I guess it means nomadic) heritage of our nation, so they cannot really bring themselves to exclude Central Asian nomads.
Their criticism of the EU is the following:
– they criticize the New Cold War as a way of breaking up the unity of this perceived Northern Civilization
– the EU is trying to politically centralize Europe, destroying national sovereignty and leading to a centralized mega-state, so overly unifying politically its turf
– while at the same time, recreating the economic disunity with an economic core in Western Europe and colonial periphery in countries like Poland and Hungary
The solution is a European Union which would protect the traditional national communities and traditional values in Europe, and strengthen European families and increasing the birthrates among Europeans, instead of using immigration to avert the demographic catastrophe.
In Hungary, they want to reopen the treaty to join the EU, and unless the EU gives us concessions, they would want a new plebiscite on whether to stay in the EU. (This is the kind of thing which leads to nowhere. The EU won’t give us concessions, and then your bluff will be called anyway.) They also want to strengthen and enlarge the Visegrárd group.
Their motto is: Hungary belongs to Hungarians, and Europe to Europeans!
Of course, as all nationalist splinter groups, it attracts the usual number of tinfoil hat people and all kinds of crackpot fantasists. But maybe it could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship, who knows?
You can see the map of their “Northern Civilization” if you open the second or third page of the program (click on the green book at the top).
But it is not. http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russian-government-allocates-additional-10-5-billion-roubles-mc-21-project/Replies: @reiner Tor
They have to wait years for the 737 MAX deliveries anyway. If there was any delay, they could just temporarily lease a few planes in the meantime until serial production of the MC-21 starts.
Have you ever read Corelli Barnett’s books? He is very good on the subject of the failures of British industrial strategy after the war (amongst other things)
You can use small fishing or commercial vessels for this purpose in a smaller war, but I doubt in a serious war with China (which is basically a world war already, or almost a world war) they would run that risk.
But I still don't get the US Navy's confidence here. I'd guess the Chinese have prepared spy satellites with their launchers (shouldn't be bigger than an ICBM, in fact smaller), which could then be used to launch such satellites very quickly and dispatch the information to the ASM sites. Unless the low flying satellites could be destroyed immediately the Chinese can already easily target. And even if they manage to take it down within a few minutes of the launch (by that time the important information could easily be dispatched to the ASM sites), the Chinese can launch another one shortly before the anti-ship missile arrives within a few minutes of the target area and dispatch the updated position of the naval vessels in question.Replies: @Thorfinnsson
The largest value would likely be actionable intelligence for use at the very outset of the war, as obviously the ships would scatter after the outbreak of war and inter themselves in neutral ports. Some might try to return to China depending on what coalition America assembled for war.
The value of these ships once war broke out would of course be low. Some of the ships might be camouflaged as vessels belonging to neutral merchant marines which would allow for wartime intelligence until boarded by American warships.
I’m not aware of the PLAN having developed naval tracking polar satellites that can be launched on demand. This capability of the Soviet Navy was known during the Cold War. That said, obviously China has the capability to develop such systems and could have done so in secret. But I doubt it would keep such a system secret unless it actually wants war with America. Another problem with such secret satellites is that they cannot have been tested, as otherwise their existence immediately becomes known to the US and Japan.
Soviet satellites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
China does have its Huanjing disaster monitoring satellites, but these are intended for a higher orbit than the US-A. Additionally they only have about a dozen of them.
American confidence is due to the usual wishful thinking and our successful history of naval warfare. The Pacific War is to the US Navy what Trafalgar is to the Royal Navy.
I agree that this confidence is unwarranted, especially going forward. I am not in favor of war with China, but there’s a certain logic to Steve Bannon’s desire for war with China in the next five years.
Basically, if they have a rough idea where the target is, they launch it up, and once it starts dropping, theoretically it can use its own sensors to choose the exact path, acting as its own naval tracking satellite.
The difficulty is that it's dropping at a speed of 10 Mach, which might not be enough to overcome AEGIS BMD defenses. But perhaps many of these could overwhelm those defenses. (Ideally they'd be able to communicate with each other, or to broadcast their info to the ground.) I'm not even sure these need to be satellites. It depends on how precisely you know or need to know the position of the enemy vessels. (Or troops. It should work over a continent, too.) So you'd shoot a very small drone above the area, and it'd look down to check if there's anything, and broadcast to the launch station (or another station) what it sees. It could be very high (satellite), or lower, maybe only 50 km or or 30 km or less above ground. (If you know roughly where the enemy vessel is, you just need a precise info.)
But yeah, we'd probably know something about them.
No, but I am aware of him and he is on my list.
This movie I would consider early modern, based on the subject matter: unhappy marriage, and homosexuality. I’m actually a bit surprised it came out as early as 1958. It is interesting how they started pushing some of these things out in the late ’50s, despite the Hays Code. One infamous example, is “Ben Hur” (1959) in which Gore Vidal inserted a homosexual subtext.
I’m generally not too big on theatrical adaptations. I feel they are overacted. And generally, I think that the political compass of theater is even worse than Hollywood. I recall seeing “The Merchant of Venice” in a theater when I was a kid – two men French kissed. The Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, is really exceptionally gay – of course a lot of that is based of musicals, which is probably even worse than theater.
The value of these ships once war broke out would of course be low. Some of the ships might be camouflaged as vessels belonging to neutral merchant marines which would allow for wartime intelligence until boarded by American warships.
I'm not aware of the PLAN having developed naval tracking polar satellites that can be launched on demand. This capability of the Soviet Navy was known during the Cold War. That said, obviously China has the capability to develop such systems and could have done so in secret. But I doubt it would keep such a system secret unless it actually wants war with America. Another problem with such secret satellites is that they cannot have been tested, as otherwise their existence immediately becomes known to the US and Japan.
Soviet satellites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
China does have its Huanjing disaster monitoring satellites, but these are intended for a higher orbit than the US-A. Additionally they only have about a dozen of them.
American confidence is due to the usual wishful thinking and our successful history of naval warfare. The Pacific War is to the US Navy what Trafalgar is to the Royal Navy.
I agree that this confidence is unwarranted, especially going forward. I am not in favor of war with China, but there's a certain logic to Steve Bannon's desire for war with China in the next five years.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
I just thought about the Chinese anti-ship ballistic missile.
Basically, if they have a rough idea where the target is, they launch it up, and once it starts dropping, theoretically it can use its own sensors to choose the exact path, acting as its own naval tracking satellite.
The difficulty is that it’s dropping at a speed of 10 Mach, which might not be enough to overcome AEGIS BMD defenses. But perhaps many of these could overwhelm those defenses. (Ideally they’d be able to communicate with each other, or to broadcast their info to the ground.)
I’m not even sure these need to be satellites. It depends on how precisely you know or need to know the position of the enemy vessels. (Or troops. It should work over a continent, too.) So you’d shoot a very small drone above the area, and it’d look down to check if there’s anything, and broadcast to the launch station (or another station) what it sees. It could be very high (satellite), or lower, maybe only 50 km or or 30 km or less above ground. (If you know roughly where the enemy vessel is, you just need a precise info.)
But yeah, we’d probably know something about them.
A rough idea of where the target is, well, rough. And in just one hour’s time a carrier group could be anywhere within a 3,000 nautical mile area.
Furthermore for obvious reasons ballistic missile warheads don’t have room for large sensors.
Honestly China’s best break here might be indiscipline on the part of American naval forces. Perhaps a female-captained destroyer would break radio silence to complain about a shortage of pizza MREs.
A “very small drone” would not have useful endurance.
I'm not an expert on radars, the DF-21D has a diameter of 1.4 m (4.6 ft), probably it's not large enough for a good radar searching such a large area. And you're probably correct, increasing the diameter would result in a host of engineering problems, lower speed, higher requirement for an energy shield, etc. Anyway, for what it's worth, at Mach 10, half the energy of the impact comes from kinetic energy, so even replacing all the explosives with sophisticated radar and other electronics would only cut the destructive power in half, so as long as you can increase your chances of hitting the target by 100% or more, it's worth it. I thought about one without propulsion, only sailing or parachuting (or using a balloon to keep itself high until shot down), giving a useful snapshot of the battlefield. Any minute it'd spend after sending the initial snapshot (which could be gathered in a very short time, maybe a few minutes or less? a visual snapshot would obviously need just a few seconds, and in good weather, you could just launch flying cameras above the target area) would just be a bonus.
But maybe it's still just a fantasy, impossible to implement. Or maybe not too useful.
737 MAX deliveries will begin in Autumn 2019.
So either they should reduce the number of flights, or they should find a short-term solution like a short-term (three years) leasing agreement.
Buying Western airliners makes little sense, given the current geopolitical situation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Mitleser
I'm generally not too big on theatrical adaptations. I feel they are overacted. And generally, I think that the political compass of theater is even worse than Hollywood. I recall seeing "The Merchant of Venice" in a theater when I was a kid - two men French kissed. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, is really exceptionally gay - of course a lot of that is based of musicals, which is probably even worse than theater.Replies: @Dmitry
I thought the opposite. The film seems relatively old for 1958 (this is the same year a very modernist film of Alfred Hitchcock, was released – Vertigo).
The story could also be written in the late 19th century, and it would not be different (except one scene where their father arrives in a plane).
These themes of unhappy family, which is arguing for inheritance from the dying oligarch, and of an ambiguously impotent or possibly homosexual husband preventing them from having children to inherit the fortune of the father – seem more from the 19th century.
Also it seems like the play is influenced by Henry James’ view of Americans? They have a histrionic family argument. Eventually they go to the cellar under the house, which is full of objects they have bought in Europe, without understanding them.
–
I thought the most modern aspect of the film was choice of actors who look like fashion models for the main roles, and then filming them like they are just posing for a 1950s fashion catalogue?
I think I could understand all of the language .
It’s an interesting culture shock to see Hollywood would just film a play in 1958, without even varying the house scenery for two hours.
Nowadays, since Avatar, even the camera has to constantly move and change place every 5 seconds, like an audience is expected to have so much attention deficit they need constant movement not to leave the cinema in boredom.
https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2019/04/01/chinas-acceptance-un-lgbt--cautious-optimism
China falls to the forces of Homintern
Such art films still exist – another excellent example of a film with almost all of the action taking place in a single set is Reservoir Dogs. I suspect its another example of “corruption” of art, if you would, by successful hyperfocus on a specific kind of spending audience. The Pareto Principle successfully applied maximizes profits, but not necessarily artistic marvels.
The missile could cover the 2,000 km range in roughly fifteen or twenty minutes. So if you exactly knew exactly where the target is at the time you launched your missile, it might be at most 20 km (but probably less) away from that point. Of course, the less exact location you have, the farther away it will be. But the rougher the original idea, the larger the area to be searched through.
I’m not an expert on radars, the DF-21D has a diameter of 1.4 m (4.6 ft), probably it’s not large enough for a good radar searching such a large area. And you’re probably correct, increasing the diameter would result in a host of engineering problems, lower speed, higher requirement for an energy shield, etc. Anyway, for what it’s worth, at Mach 10, half the energy of the impact comes from kinetic energy, so even replacing all the explosives with sophisticated radar and other electronics would only cut the destructive power in half, so as long as you can increase your chances of hitting the target by 100% or more, it’s worth it.
I thought about one without propulsion, only sailing or parachuting (or using a balloon to keep itself high until shot down), giving a useful snapshot of the battlefield. Any minute it’d spend after sending the initial snapshot (which could be gathered in a very short time, maybe a few minutes or less? a visual snapshot would obviously need just a few seconds, and in good weather, you could just launch flying cameras above the target area) would just be a bonus.
But maybe it’s still just a fantasy, impossible to implement. Or maybe not too useful.
It’s needs a short term solution. Buying Western planes exposes Aeroflot to a possible future Western sanctions regime, like how Iran cannot maintain its fleet of airliners because of the US sanctions.
So either they should reduce the number of flights, or they should find a short-term solution like a short-term (three years) leasing agreement.
Buying Western airliners makes little sense, given the current geopolitical situation.
The Iranians can maintain their aging fleets in the short-term, the real problem is what happens in the long-term to their already decades old air fleets.
That is currently much less of an issue for the Russian air fleets whose Western planes are much less old.Replies: @reiner Tor
Thank you, you are as always informative.
China falls to the forces of HominternReplies: @Hyperborean
Access is denied, can you summarise the article?
Oblomov was the 1981 Best Foreign Film award winner of the American National Board of Review.
https://twitter.com/DerSPIEGEL/status/1114196258351198214
AfD
Putin's puppets
How the Kremlin is using the right-wing party for its own purposesReplies: @songbird, @Mitleser
Russiagate: German edition
Just as fake as the original.
.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
https://www.publicomag.com/2019/04/wochenrueckblick-ein-sozialismus-mit-dem-antlitz-von-robert-habeck/
Just as fake as the original. .
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
https://www.publicomag.com/2019/04/wochenrueckblick-ein-sozialismus-mit-dem-antlitz-von-robert-habeck/Replies: @reiner Tor
I know a liberal guy in Hungary, he’s an attorney, high income, erudite guy, in his early thirties, who runs a liberal Facebook page (now with a couple thousand readers, which includes a few lurking right wingers like yours truly), and it regularly ran all Russiagate hoaxes whenever they emerged, with zero retraction if and when they proved to be baseless. I don’t think it’s because he’s dishonest, but mostly because he believes all the accusations, and then doesn’t read or believe the retractions or thinks the retractions are just mere technicalities (“the evidence was slightly weaker than believed originally”). I’m sure this propaganda is very effective for all liberals or leftists (keeping them in the fold), though might be ineffective with nationalists already skeptical of the narrative.
The value of these ships once war broke out would of course be low. Some of the ships might be camouflaged as vessels belonging to neutral merchant marines which would allow for wartime intelligence until boarded by American warships.
I'm not aware of the PLAN having developed naval tracking polar satellites that can be launched on demand. This capability of the Soviet Navy was known during the Cold War. That said, obviously China has the capability to develop such systems and could have done so in secret. But I doubt it would keep such a system secret unless it actually wants war with America. Another problem with such secret satellites is that they cannot have been tested, as otherwise their existence immediately becomes known to the US and Japan.
Soviet satellites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
China does have its Huanjing disaster monitoring satellites, but these are intended for a higher orbit than the US-A. Additionally they only have about a dozen of them.
American confidence is due to the usual wishful thinking and our successful history of naval warfare. The Pacific War is to the US Navy what Trafalgar is to the Royal Navy.
I agree that this confidence is unwarranted, especially going forward. I am not in favor of war with China, but there's a certain logic to Steve Bannon's desire for war with China in the next five years.Replies: @reiner Tor, @reiner Tor
What is the difference between a normal satellite and one which could be launched on demand? I guess the launcher, which needs to be preferably solid fuel for a rapid operation. So, do they have a modified ICBM which could be used to launch a satellite to low orbit? Do they need to separately test such ability?
Anyway, they have a low cost solid fuel satellite launch capability, I’m not sure if such rockets could be carried around and launched from transporter erectors, but since they were developed from military missiles, and are explicitly called “quick reaction” launchers, I guess that’s the case.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/china-launches-satellite-on-low-cost-solid-fuel-rocket/articleshow/66007959.cms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuaizhou
EDIT:
Yes, that’s definitely the case.
“the launch can be conducted on rough terrain”
“Satellites can be installed on a Kuaizhou rocket and stored in a maintenance facility. Once needed, the rocket is deployed by a transporter-erector-launcher vehicle (TEL) to a secure location. Launch readiness time can be as short as several hours.[13][14]”
So there’s no way to tell how many naval satellites they have in storage, nor how many launchers they have. Though the numbers currently are probably small.
Though it'd still make sense for them to keep some satellites in storage, because the ones in space might be destroyed in the first hours of war, so having a few in storage would make a lot of sense. But maybe they don't have any in storage.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-wants-satellites-watching-every-ship-in-south-china-sea-2018-8?r=US&IR=T
And yes, solid fuel is desired for a rapid launch capability. This is why ballistic missiles are ordinarily solid fuel. It's also why Japan's "space program" launches solid fuel rockets.
The issue here isn't that China lacks solid fuel rockets, it's that they lack nuclear powered satellites intended for extremely low orbit operation.
There are possibly other things they could launch than radar however. Optical and infrared imaging for instance has improved tremendously in the past generation, and unlike radar doesn't require a lot of power. So perhaps China has developed battery-powered (or RTG) imaging satellites for this purpose.
Such satellites could be quite small and launched with glorified sounding rockets.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vishnugupta
China doesn’t yet have all satellites needed in orbit.
Though it’d still make sense for them to keep some satellites in storage, because the ones in space might be destroyed in the first hours of war, so having a few in storage would make a lot of sense. But maybe they don’t have any in storage.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-wants-satellites-watching-every-ship-in-south-china-sea-2018-8?r=US&IR=T
So either they should reduce the number of flights, or they should find a short-term solution like a short-term (three years) leasing agreement.
Buying Western airliners makes little sense, given the current geopolitical situation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Mitleser
And buying American planes makes even less sense than buying Airbus. The Americans usually have tougher sanctions, introduced at shorter notice, while the Europeans often include grandfathering provisions and they usually take longer to implement. Their sanctions are usually less stringent, or at most exactly as tough as the American sanctions. In 2014 the American sanctions might not have been tougher than the EU sanctions, because it was under Obama, and probably EU and US officials coordinated a lot about it. But then the Americans could and did quickly and unilaterally snap further sanctions, which the Europeans basically never do, so on average, you always end up with tougher American than European sanctions, especially when averaged out for longer time periods.
Therefore, buying complicated maintenance-heavy equipment like airliners from the US makes less sense than buying from the EU.
Putin’s S-400 deal with Erdogan seems to be successful, so far.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-08/erdogan-and-putin-pledge-deepened-military-ties-meeting-despite-us-threats
So either they should reduce the number of flights, or they should find a short-term solution like a short-term (three years) leasing agreement.
Buying Western airliners makes little sense, given the current geopolitical situation.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Mitleser
You mean a mid/long term solution.
The Iranians can maintain their aging fleets in the short-term, the real problem is what happens in the long-term to their already decades old air fleets.
That is currently much less of an issue for the Russian air fleets whose Western planes are much less old.
As such, the 737 MAX is not even more advanced than the MC-21. If anything, it's the other way around. So they are now locking themselves into an obsolete technology because... well, to be able to fly them three years earlier. That's what I meant: they need a short term solution for those three years.
But, as I wrote, Russia is not serious about supporting its aviation industry. Except for a large number of horrible accidents these old airplanes patched with duct-tape suffer every once in a while. These Iranian planes are probably worse than old Soviet planes are. So Russia shouldn't worry about what would happen in a decade, because... hey, look, a squirrel!Replies: @Mitleser, @Dmitry
The Iranians can maintain their aging fleets in the short-term, the real problem is what happens in the long-term to their already decades old air fleets.
That is currently much less of an issue for the Russian air fleets whose Western planes are much less old.Replies: @reiner Tor
No, I meant that it only needed a short term solution (the few years until the start of the MC-21 deliveries), if the Russian government was serious about supporting its aviation industry. And that assuming that 737 MAX will be re-certified quickly. There are growing demands of a full re-certification, because apparently it wasn’t adequately tested at all, and so fixing the MCAS only means that this particular issue won’t come up again. There might be other issues. Boeing has just found an unrelated problem.
As such, the 737 MAX is not even more advanced than the MC-21. If anything, it’s the other way around. So they are now locking themselves into an obsolete technology because… well, to be able to fly them three years earlier. That’s what I meant: they need a short term solution for those three years.
But, as I wrote, Russia is not serious about supporting its aviation industry.
Except for a large number of horrible accidents these old airplanes patched with duct-tape suffer every once in a while. These Iranian planes are probably worse than old Soviet planes are.
So Russia shouldn’t worry about what would happen in a decade, because… hey, look, a squirrel!
There are already orders for 175 MC-21s.
If Pobeda would order them now, they would have to wait at least half a decade because others like Red Wings which scrapped their plans to get new Airbus airliners would get them first. Not enough to ground their fleets for good.Replies: @reiner Tor
In total, 74 of the 737 8 Max planes are being delivered in Russia from the next year to different airlines - so the safety issue is very relevant for any of us who go, or have family who travel on these airlines. Consolation is all over the world will fly thousands of the same model. So at least the plane is beta tested across so many different airlines, that the crashes and problems will happen and be resolved more likely overseas. And Hungary's plane production is - 0? Currently, the government pays billions of dollars, into the domestic aviation production - so I'm not sure how this can be described as "not serious about supporting its aviation industry". When I was reading about it, I only had the personal feeling that there is too much money in the industry (e.g. I was reading about hundreds of millions of dollars of state owned aircraft money which went to Sergei Pugachev's bank account some years ago, and which they are trying to recover with legal actions abroad).Replies: @reiner Tor
Boeing has a big R&D centre in Moscow, or did when Biden visited when I was there in 2011.
That might have been a factor. Sounds like a better argument. The Russian aviation industry probably benefits from the presence of the Boeing and Airbus R&D centers, though the patents go to the parent companies only, so the benefits are not that large.
As such, the 737 MAX is not even more advanced than the MC-21. If anything, it's the other way around. So they are now locking themselves into an obsolete technology because... well, to be able to fly them three years earlier. That's what I meant: they need a short term solution for those three years.
But, as I wrote, Russia is not serious about supporting its aviation industry. Except for a large number of horrible accidents these old airplanes patched with duct-tape suffer every once in a while. These Iranian planes are probably worse than old Soviet planes are. So Russia shouldn't worry about what would happen in a decade, because... hey, look, a squirrel!Replies: @Mitleser, @Dmitry
Short term solution for whom?
There are already orders for 175 MC-21s.
If Pobeda would order them now, they would have to wait at least half a decade because others like Red Wings which scrapped their plans to get new Airbus airliners would get them first.
Not enough to ground their fleets for good.
There are already orders for 175 MC-21s.
If Pobeda would order them now, they would have to wait at least half a decade because others like Red Wings which scrapped their plans to get new Airbus airliners would get them first. Not enough to ground their fleets for good.Replies: @reiner Tor
In other words, there’s not enough capacity. OK, that makes sense.
The US-A satellites had nuclear reactors so they could operate at very low orbit. The ordinary method of powering satellites, solar panels, would cause satellites in such an orbit to fall to Earth too quickly to be useful.
And yes, solid fuel is desired for a rapid launch capability. This is why ballistic missiles are ordinarily solid fuel. It’s also why Japan’s “space program” launches solid fuel rockets.
The issue here isn’t that China lacks solid fuel rockets, it’s that they lack nuclear powered satellites intended for extremely low orbit operation.
There are possibly other things they could launch than radar however. Optical and infrared imaging for instance has improved tremendously in the past generation, and unlike radar doesn’t require a lot of power. So perhaps China has developed battery-powered (or RTG) imaging satellites for this purpose.
Such satellites could be quite small and launched with glorified sounding rockets.
This I guess is used to power a hall effect ion engine to maintain orbit.
This is pretty much standard on all space probes which need to travel beyond Mars where solar power doesn't work well and is relatively simple 50 year old technology.
The most difficult part is producing Pu 241 which any country with nuclear fuel reprocessing capability can produce.
Why do you imply it will be so difficult for the Chinese to develop such satellites?Replies: @reiner Tor
Unlike Iran I suspect Russia could manufacture its own spares for Western aircraft without too much difficulty if required.
And yes, solid fuel is desired for a rapid launch capability. This is why ballistic missiles are ordinarily solid fuel. It's also why Japan's "space program" launches solid fuel rockets.
The issue here isn't that China lacks solid fuel rockets, it's that they lack nuclear powered satellites intended for extremely low orbit operation.
There are possibly other things they could launch than radar however. Optical and infrared imaging for instance has improved tremendously in the past generation, and unlike radar doesn't require a lot of power. So perhaps China has developed battery-powered (or RTG) imaging satellites for this purpose.
Such satellites could be quite small and launched with glorified sounding rockets.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vishnugupta
In other words, the US Navy’s trust in its ability to protect its assets in case of war with China seems a bit overconfident.
Yes, though in fairness to the USN that’s probably true of most armed forces.
Worth noting that imaging for obvious reasons offers much less coverage than radar.
Of course it’s difficult to say if it’d work. AEGIS is also pretty sophisticated and has been upgraded for decades anyway. So maybe the US Navy is correct. But they definitely shouldn’t be so confident based on information we have now.
The shortest book: Karlin Posts in April 2019.
And yes, solid fuel is desired for a rapid launch capability. This is why ballistic missiles are ordinarily solid fuel. It's also why Japan's "space program" launches solid fuel rockets.
The issue here isn't that China lacks solid fuel rockets, it's that they lack nuclear powered satellites intended for extremely low orbit operation.
There are possibly other things they could launch than radar however. Optical and infrared imaging for instance has improved tremendously in the past generation, and unlike radar doesn't require a lot of power. So perhaps China has developed battery-powered (or RTG) imaging satellites for this purpose.
Such satellites could be quite small and launched with glorified sounding rockets.Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vishnugupta
I believe these satellite are powered by nuclear thermo electric generators i.e there is Pu241 which decays and produces heat and there is a thermo couple which produces electricity not miniaturized nuclear reactors(as in ones used in nuclear submarines).
This I guess is used to power a hall effect ion engine to maintain orbit.
This is pretty much standard on all space probes which need to travel beyond Mars where solar power doesn’t work well and is relatively simple 50 year old technology.
The most difficult part is producing Pu 241 which any country with nuclear fuel reprocessing capability can produce.
Why do you imply it will be so difficult for the Chinese to develop such satellites?
Anyway, it’s pretty likely that they have something - either they actually do have these satellites, or they have something which obviates the need for it.
This I guess is used to power a hall effect ion engine to maintain orbit.
This is pretty much standard on all space probes which need to travel beyond Mars where solar power doesn't work well and is relatively simple 50 year old technology.
The most difficult part is producing Pu 241 which any country with nuclear fuel reprocessing capability can produce.
Why do you imply it will be so difficult for the Chinese to develop such satellites?Replies: @reiner Tor
I think his point was not that it’d be difficult for the Chinese to develop it, but that they haven’t yet developed it for some reason. (Most likely budget shortfalls?)
Anyway, it’s pretty likely that they have something – either they actually do have these satellites, or they have something which obviates the need for it.
They might have to wait for nice weather to sink a carrier. The missile itself does have a radar anyway, so it’s enough to have a somewhat accurate location for the carrier. If I were them, I’d launch several missiles to make sure.
Of course it’s difficult to say if it’d work. AEGIS is also pretty sophisticated and has been upgraded for decades anyway. So maybe the US Navy is correct. But they definitely shouldn’t be so confident based on information we have now.
Thought I should bring this here
Thorfinnsson posted this chart in a thread elsewhere on Unz.com, one dedicated to Roosevelt’s role in World War Two.
That Soviet data is fascinating
A massive spike beginning in 1932, for some reason
A staggering drop off in the middle of 1934
A gradual return to a stasis in 1936
Then another large spike timed perfectly with Stalin’s great purge of the army brass.
Very, very interesting
Let’s get some Russian historians in here to tell us what this data means in relation to Soviet policies and history of that period
The situation with so many 737 MAX orders is to worry about, because of its safety problems.
However, Boeing company itself is a massive investor in Sverdlovsk region (where important 787 parts are produced).
Here was Ural Boeing quietly opening second production in Sverdlovsk region a few months ago.
–
About titanium valley, where Ural Boeing are the most important investor.
I wonder if the early 30s surge is related to Japan taking over Manchuria in 1931?
As such, the 737 MAX is not even more advanced than the MC-21. If anything, it's the other way around. So they are now locking themselves into an obsolete technology because... well, to be able to fly them three years earlier. That's what I meant: they need a short term solution for those three years.
But, as I wrote, Russia is not serious about supporting its aviation industry. Except for a large number of horrible accidents these old airplanes patched with duct-tape suffer every once in a while. These Iranian planes are probably worse than old Soviet planes are. So Russia shouldn't worry about what would happen in a decade, because... hey, look, a squirrel!Replies: @Mitleser, @Dmitry
The problem here is a safety issue of 737 Max 8, which is already on a criminal level.
Ural airlines begins receiving 14 of the 737 8 Max planes from October this year. S7 was already flying two of the planes before the accident.
In total, 74 of the 737 8 Max planes are being delivered in Russia from the next year to different airlines – so the safety issue is very relevant for any of us who go, or have family who travel on these airlines.
Consolation is all over the world will fly thousands of the same model. So at least the plane is beta tested across so many different airlines, that the crashes and problems will happen and be resolved more likely overseas.
And Hungary’s plane production is – 0?
Currently, the government pays billions of dollars, into the domestic aviation production – so I’m not sure how this can be described as “not serious about supporting its aviation industry”.
When I was reading about it, I only had the personal feeling that there is too much money in the industry (e.g. I was reading about hundreds of millions of dollars of state owned aircraft money which went to Sergei Pugachev’s bank account some years ago, and which they are trying to recover with legal actions abroad).
@ Dmitry, 1070 has very similar performance to 1660-Ti but is almost three years old and just as expensive. No real point to it.Replies: @Dmitry, @donnyess
The 1660 ti seems to be the one you want given the requirements. It’s still a pretty expensive board at 280 bucks. The 1660 is about 220 bucks. Maybe monitor the sales figures and go with the best seller…again probably the 1660 ti. If none of these more expensive cards get a large user base…maybe try the Asus rx-570 4gb at 150 bucks or the MSI rx-570 mk2 8gb at 190 bucks….see how it works and wait until you upgrade your system.
In total, 74 of the 737 8 Max planes are being delivered in Russia from the next year to different airlines - so the safety issue is very relevant for any of us who go, or have family who travel on these airlines. Consolation is all over the world will fly thousands of the same model. So at least the plane is beta tested across so many different airlines, that the crashes and problems will happen and be resolved more likely overseas. And Hungary's plane production is - 0? Currently, the government pays billions of dollars, into the domestic aviation production - so I'm not sure how this can be described as "not serious about supporting its aviation industry". When I was reading about it, I only had the personal feeling that there is too much money in the industry (e.g. I was reading about hundreds of millions of dollars of state owned aircraft money which went to Sergei Pugachev's bank account some years ago, and which they are trying to recover with legal actions abroad).Replies: @reiner Tor
The 737 could have other issues, since it was obviously rushed into production. That much you can tell from the fact that they didn’t even care for basic safety considerations. There might be other issues. E.g. perhaps the jackscrew is used more heavily than on other models, so it will physically wear out earlier; this could be a safety or just a maintenance and depreciation issue. The turbofan engine might be too heavy for the wings; again, this could be later a maintenance and depreciation issue, or a more serious safety issue. But there’s more likely a problem I don’t think of now.
It’s pretty stupid to buy such a plane and lock yourself into such a technology for a decade or more.
How is that relevant? Hungary hasn’t had an aviation industry since 1945 (or November 1944, when the few still functioning factories were evacuated to Germany), and it’d be horribly expensive to start a new one out of scratch. (That’s not the case in Russia, which has an aviation industry which is often competitive internationally.) Hungary is too small for this anyway, both geographically (very little domestic aviation) and in terms of population (so we have fifteen times fewer engineers, fewer taxpayers to shoulder the investment, etc.), but anyway Hungary is of course trying to revive some domestic industry at taxpayer expense.
To get some returns on the investment, the government needs to create a market. It’s not very smart to create an industry but then keep importing inferior products.
I can give you an example of stupid subsidies. Hungary keeps subsidizing its national railway. It also keeps subsidizing its national postal service. Hungary also spends a lot of money on road maintenance (which still are full of potholes anyway). Until 2004 mail in Hungary was delivered between cities by rail. Usually late at night there was always the last train, which stopped everywhere, the mail train. It was used by too few people to make it worth it, but it was very useful for those people, and the train was paid for by the postal service anyway. So quite naturally under the Socialist and Free Democrat government they built a new logistical center which could no longer be serviced by rail, and instead they had to buy more delivery vans and trucks. So they stopped the mail trains, they offloaded extra traffic on the roads, which altogether was slightly cheaper for the postal service (but mail delivery actually got slower!), while it made it necessary to increase subsidies to the railway.
This is a stupid way to subsidize something.
You think these moneys wouldn’t be stolen if the government spent it on something else?