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- The Mainstream Media Recognizes the Nakba
- The Near Triumph of the Nakba Denial Movement
- The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine
- The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
- Historical Analogies, False and True
- Some Other Books on the Israel/Palestine Conflict
- The “Holocaust Industry” and Israel
- Holocaust Denial, Explicit and Implicit
- Inversions of Reality, Now and in the Past
The Mainstream Media Recognizes the Nakba
Two weeks ago the Sunday New York Times Magazine published a long cover-story on thirty years of failed Middle East peace efforts between Israelis and Palestinians, a tragedy that resulted in the enormous bloodshed and destruction of the last couple of months. The discussion featured three Israeli and three Palestinian academics, moderated by staff writer Emily Bazelon, and the overall tone—for better or for worse—probably reflected the historical and ideological assumptions of the liberal Zionists who dominate the editorial leadership of the Times and most other major American media outlets.
Bazelon’s introduction ran a few paragraphs, summarizing the history of the conflict, which was portrayed as a struggle between right and right, with two unfortunate peoples battling over the same small piece of land. An early sentence stated that the Israelis saw the 1948 war as “an existential fight for survival, one that came just a few years after the Holocaust,” and that latter event, so endlessly covered in our media, obviously required no explanation for Times readers. But in the following sentence we were told that for three generations, Palestinians have similarly regarded 1948 as the year of their Nakba. That Arabic word was far less familiar to most Westerners, so Bazelon went on to explain that it meant “catastrophe,” the tragic circumstances under which 700,000 Palestinians fled or were forcibly expelled from their ancient homeland.
The following Wednesday, another Times article on the Israel/Gaza conflict similarly conjoined the Holocaust and the Nakba, this time in a single sentence, as had a different Times story a week earlier. These days there is even a Wikipedia entry running 3,300 words on those two interlinked historical traumas, so separately meaningful to Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs, and in 2018 an entire book was published with that title.
The increasing appearance of the term Nakba in elite mainstream publications such as the Times represents an important ideological victory for the Palestinian cause. Our media creates our reality, so concepts or historical events that lack an identifying name are far less likely to be considered important and remembered. Thus, the growing use of that one word may carry greater political weight than the actual historical fact that 700,000 pitiful refugees were expelled from their homes in Palestine.
There are now widespread suspicions that the current Israeli military attacks in Gaza are intended to drive all its Palestinians into the Sinai desert of Egypt, and will be followed by attempts to do the same to the Palestinians of the West Bank. Indeed, after decades of denying the reality of the 1948 Nakba, some top Israeli leaders are now proclaiming their plans for a new and far greater Nakba, finally ridding the Greater Israel they control of its unwanted Palestinian inhabitants.
I’m not sure when I first encountered the word Nakba in any of my publications. It might have been during the late 1980s when the first Intifada or “uprising” became a widely featured story regarding the Middle East, describing the Palestinian protests, violent and non-violent, in the West Bank and Gaza against what was then two decades of Israeli occupation. Or perhaps it was a few years later during the early 1990s, when the Oslo Peace negotiations between Israel and the PLO seemed set to finally resolve the conflict and move the region towards a reasonable peace agreement, one that included the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.
I had already often seen the phrase “Palestinian refugees” in many news stories, with the UN camps of the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, and elsewhere holding well over a million of those people, and I was vaguely aware that they’d fled from their former homes in Israel during the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948.
The media accounts that I casually absorbed over the years had been rather vague and sketchy, and they often presented severe distortions or outright falsehoods about those important events, being heavily shaped by the propaganda of Israel and its legion of partisans. We were often told that the flight of the Palestinians had been promoted by radio broadcasts of three or four neighboring Arab countries, which urged them to clear the ground for the invading armies that were expected to snuff out the newly-founded Jewish State. Those departures had been intended as very temporary, but after the professional Arab armies were unexpectedly defeated by the desperate, untrained Zionist militias, a Palestinian sojourn expected to last days or weeks ultimately stretched into years and decades. The unfortunate hardships of refugee life were worsened by the cruel refusal of the Arab states to integrate the Palestinians into their own societies, a failure that sharply contrasted with Israel’s rapid and successful assimilation of the many hundreds of thousands of Jews who had been expelled from Arab countries around the same time. Indeed, those neighboring Arab regimes sought to use the Palestinian refugees merely as political pawns against the newly established State of Israel, whose existence they viewed with such unremitting hostility. But little of this narrative was true, and crucial legal and historical facts were completely omitted.
As might be expected, the difficult existence of those many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in refugee camps eventually fostered the rise of violent militant organizations such as the PLO, which sought to capture the world’s attention through high-profile terrorist attacks. By the early 1970s, their plane hijackings drew widespread attention and this was followed by the infamous seizure and killing of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympic Games. Other terrorist groups such as Germany’s notorious Baader-Meinhof gang often cooperated with the PLO, and in 1976 their joint hijacking operation had been foiled by a bold Israeli commando raid at Entebbe airport in Uganda.
Prior to those incidents, the plight of the Palestinians had largely been ignored. But within a few years, the term “Palestinian terrorist” and “Palestinian refugee” both became widespread across our media, though the latter still included very little discussion of the circumstances that had originally created their predicament.
Far more typical was their villainous portrayal in Hollywood fare, such as the popular 1977 film Black Sunday, in which American FBI and Israeli Mossad agents together foiled a Palestinian terrorist plot to kill 80,000 Americans by blowing up the Goodyear Blimp over the Superbowl stadium, with our own President being one of the intended victims.
The Near Triumph of the Nakba Denial Movement
Although bombs and bullets have been weapons widely used during the 75 years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I think that the role of media coverage has been far more crucial to its trajectory, with the Israelis enjoying an enormous advantage in that regard given the massive pro-Israel bias of Western journalists and publications, let alone Hollywood productions. In evaluating both current and past events, thoughtful analysts should always account for that extreme bias—and the very sharply tilted playing field it creates—if they wish to correctly determine the reality of events.
I think that the first substantial wave of sympathetic media coverage the Palestinians ever received may have come in the wake of the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, culminating in the long, brutal siege of Beirut. Ariel Sharon, the hardline Defense Minister of Menachem Begin’s right-wing Israeli government, had been the mastermind of that project, which resulted in the deaths of perhaps 20,000 Palestinians and Lebansese civilians and his actions were roundly condemned by Times correspondent Thomas Friedman. The endless Israeli references to Palestinian “terrorists” were even ridiculed in Doonesbury:
Back then, invading an Arab country and besieging its capital city was an almost unprecedented event, and with American and international diplomatic pressure mounting, the PLO military forces who were the purported targets of Israel’s assault were evacuated under UN auspices. But once those fighters were removed, Sharon soon afterwards orchestrated a grisly massacre of the defenseless Palestinian women and children left behind at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. That unfortunate event produced a major public relations debacle for the Israelis and a renewed international focus upon the Palestinians. There was growing global sympathy for their plight and some possibility that the American media would focus on the circumstances of their original expulsion, although I don’t recall the discussion of any specifics at that time, let alone the appearance of the term Nakba.
Given that serious crack in the previously overwhelming pro-Israel media tilt, it’s hardly surprising that Israel’s partisans would soon launch a sudden, concerted counter-attack, a bold attempt to permanently remove the Nakba from world history even before that term made any appearance on the political stage.
As a Stanford physics graduate student, I remember that in 1984 or 1985 the subject of the Middle East conflict once happened to come up and one of my fellow grad students—a pro-Israel Gentile—declared that the entire “Palestinian refugee problem” was largely a hoax. To my considerable surprise, he explained that most Palestinians were actually not native to the area, instead being relatively recent immigrants from neighboring Arab countries who had arrived during the decade or two preceding the 1948 war, drawn by the economic opportunities produced from the growing Jewish settlement.
I’d never devoted a great deal of time to the Middle East conflict, but that claim seemed very surprising to me, contrary to everything that I’d read, and although I was hardly convinced, I vaguely wondered whether it might be true to some extent. Obviously, if many or most of the so-called “Palestinians” weren’t actually natives of Palestine displaced by the Zionist Jewish settlers who had created Israel but were instead themselves recent immigrants who had arrived around the same time or later, the entire political landscape of the bitter regional conflict would be transformed.
Some years later, I discovered that those striking claims had been presented in a lengthy, extremely controversial 1984 book, glowingly praised in mainstream and pro-Israel circles but condemned as fraudulent by its critics, with the latter eventually gaining the upper hand and the arguments gradually disappearing from the media. But it was only about a decade ago that I finally looked into the matter, and discovered a fascinating story.
Joan Peters had been a college drop-out and free-lance writer, with interest in the Middle East but having little historical expertise. Then in 1984, her name suddenly appeared as the author of From Time Immemorial, a remarkably scholarly volume, running 600 pages with nearly 2,000 footnotes, a book that made the revolutionary claim that the Palestinians did not really exist as a people. According to her Introduction, she had begun the research project years earlier quite sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian refugees and intending to focus on their miserable condition, but she gradually encountered more and more clues that they were largely a propaganda-concoction fabricated by Israel’s Arab enemies. So she then spent years digging in musty archives, carefully researching the underlying demographic data and finally producing her masterwork, which was eagerly released by a leading New York publisher.
A gigantic wave of almost uniformly glowing reviews praised her exhaustive scholarship, propelling her book onto all the bestseller lists. Even more importantly, she soon became the darling of the electronic media, reaching a vastly larger national audience through her 200 or 300 radio and television interviews, in which she exploded the widespread myth that the so-called “Palestinian refugees” had been longtime occupants of Palestine. Her monumental discovery was glowingly endorsed by top academic scholars, Pulitzer Prize-winning historians, and even the odd Nobel Laureate or two.
Back then, the media landscape was far more hierarchical and unified than today, with the Western prestige press lacking any significant global rivals or Internet critics. Given such strong backing, her surprising conclusions seemed likely to become deeply embedded in the accepted narrative, permanently relegating any doubters to the conspiratorial fringes. And if the “Palestinians” did not actually exist as a people, any notion that they had a legitimate claim to the land obviously evaporated.
This might easily have happened except for the determination of a young Princeton graduate student named Norman Finkelstein, having a strong interest in Zionist history. He became curious about this widely-praised new book, which seemed to contradict everything he knew about the subject, so he began checking some of Peters’ scholarly references, and discovered that many of them were severely distorted or even falsified. Notwithstanding her legion of prestigious endorsements, he concluded that her book constituted “a spectacular fraud,” with important sections apparently even plagiarized from a Zionist propaganda tract published decades earlier that no one had ever taken seriously.
Unlike the political world, academia is largely run on the honor-system, and very few individuals bother critically checking the footnotes in a text released by a major press and strongly endorsed by many important figures. So absent Finkelstein’s personal efforts, it’s quite possible that the entire Palestinian people might have vanished from recognized existence without the need for the Israelis to fire a single shot. The gigantic, blatant hoax of “Nakba Denial” would have hardened into concrete, with no one in the political mainstream being willing to publicly challenge it.
As Finkelstein and others tell the story, uncovering that massive fraud in a very high-profile bestseller was easy enough, but bringing those facts to wider attention proved extremely difficult, especially since so many influential Jewish intellectuals had already invested their reputations in praising and endorsing the work, along with so many important publications. Finkelstein’s letters to journalists and editors were completely ignored, and of the many academics he contacted, only Noam Chomsky of MIT bothered responding. Chomsky, a strong critic of Israeli policies, encouraged Finkelstein’s efforts but warned that he might be severely damaging his own academic career, a concern that unfortunately proved correct.
Finkelstein wrote up his detailed critique as a long article, which he submitted everywhere but it was similarly ignored, until Chomsky helped him place a shortened version in a tiny Midwestern leftist magazine. Gradually word of Finkelstein’s analysis began circulating, with journalists and scholars realizing that it was probably only a matter of time until the intellectual scandal exploded, but no publication was willing to be the first to expose the plagiarized fraud. The prestigious New York Review of Books solicited an evaluation from a leading Israeli demographic historian, who ridiculed Peters’ book as “sheer forgery,” merely amounting to regurgitated Zionist propaganda that no one in Israel took seriously, but the editors refused to allow his devastating review to appear in print. However, in those days, British intellectuals were less beholden to Zionist influence and they were alerted by Chomsky to Finkelstein’s detailed criticism, so the appearance of the book’s British edition quickly unleashed a wave of ridicule in leading London publications, which finally forced most of their shamefaced American counterparts to acknowledge those same facts.
The book and the controversy it provoked were sufficiently important that it has become the subject of a lengthy Wikipedia article that effectively summarizes the story, helpfully providing numerous links and quotations. I’d also strongly recommend a 2002 essay by Chomsky that is available online, along with a 2015 article in Mondoweiss on the occasion of Peters’ death:
- The Fate of an Honest Intellectual
Noam Chomsky • Understanding Power • 2002 • 1,900 Words - The legacy of Joan Peters and ‘From Time Immemorial’
David Samel • Mondoweiss • January 17, 2015 • 2,100 Words
In his discussion, Chomsky even suggested that Peters’ pseudo-scholarly tome had probably been concocted by some intelligence agency or pro-Israel activist organization, with her name as author merely slapped upon that fraudulent work. This seems quite plausible to me, given that she’d never before nor afterwards published any serious writings in history nor other academic research. Indeed, I think the primary asset she contributed to the project may have been the Gentile last name of her first husband, along with her reasonably telegenic appearance.
So if not for the efforts of one determined grad student, a massive historical hoax likely would have carried the day and become established in the media. Probably after a few years, Hollywood would have eagerly clambered on board, soon releasing a wealth of films and documentaries telling the story of the forlorn, almost empty land of Palestine, eventually revived by an influx of idealistic Jewish immigrants, whose economic success naturally drew in Arabs from all the neighboring countries of the Middle East. Perhaps some of those screenplays would have centered upon the heroic efforts of Peters herself, a brilliant independent scholar who labored for years to reveal a truth long concealed by a biased and arrogant academic establishment. And the entire Palestinian people, now numbering in the many millions, would have been completely erased from the official Western record, with only a few dissenting voices on the fringes of today’s Internet still stubbornly claimed otherwise and being endlessly hectored by the ADL for espousing such “anti-Semitic” beliefs. As I’ve emphasized in the past, what we regard as the reality of the world is probably far less solid than most of use believe.
We naively tend to assume that our media accurately reflects the events of our world and its history, but instead what we all too often see are only the tremendously distorted images of a circus fun-house mirror, with small items sometimes transformed into large ones, and large ones into small. The contours of historical reality may be warped into almost unrecognizable shapes, with some important elements completely disappearing from the record and others appearing out of nowhere. I’ve often suggested that the media creates our reality, but given such glaring omissions and distortions, the reality produced is often largely fictional. Our standard histories have always criticized the ludicrous Soviet propaganda during the height of Stalin’s purges or the Ukrainian famine, but in its own way, our own media organs sometimes seem just as dishonest and absurd in their own reporting. And until the availability of the Internet, it was difficult for most of us to ever recognize the enormity of this problem.
I recently reread Finkelstein’s excellent 1995 book Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict, which devoted a chapter to the Joan Peters case, and similarly deconstructed several other major examples of the massively biased scholarship and media coverage that have severely distorted American perceptions of the Middle East conflict. The Peters book itself has long been out of print and used copies available for sale quickly vanished following the outbreak of the recent Gaza violence, but fortunately a PDF version was temporarily available at Archive.org, which I downloaded and read. The contents seeming to confirm Finkelstein’s very harsh verdict, especially since none of his detailed charges were ever rebutted.
However, that hardly marked the end of the strange story. In the wake of the Second Intifada of the early 2000s, Israel’s public image in the West took another beating, so in 2003 Alan Dershowitz, a leading Harvard Law professor and fervent Zionist advocate, published The Case for Israel, which became a huge bestseller and repeated many of the same arguments about the non-existence of the Palestinians. Indeed, as Finkelstein soon demonstrated, that esteemed academic scholar—or more likely, his lazy ghostwriters—had extensively borrowed without credit large portions of Peters’ long-discredited book from two decades earlier. In a widely-discussed joint appearance on Democracy Now!, Dershowitz desperately tried to filibuster away Finkelstein’s devastating charges of academic fraud, and the resulting Dershowitz-Finkelstein affair even has a 4,500 word Wikipedia page of its own, as does the book itself.
Dershowitz was hardly pleased at the humiliating revelation that he had signed his name to the plagiarism of an already plagiarized fraud, thereby committing the sort of academic transgressions that would have gotten any freshman undergraduate expelled. Therefore, he launched a fierce campaign of retaliation, deploying his prestigious Harvard position and influential Jewish backers to drive his accuser from the academic world. Finkelstein had spent seven years as a faculty member at DePaul University, but although he was overwhelmingly recommended for tenure both by his own department and the entire College of Arts and Sciences, the backers mobilized by Dershowitz—and probably the wealthy donors they represented—exercised their veto, and he lost his appointment, leading to a bitter public lawsuit.
The story of Dershowitz’s fraudulent pro-Israel bestseller constitutes a major part of Finkelstein’s 2005 book Beyond Chutzpah, published by the University of California press, a prestigious academic imprint, and Dershowitz mobilized all his supporters to block its release, even recruiting Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to unsuccessfully lobby the UC Regents to ban the book. I had originally purchased that text more than a dozen years ago, but only now finally read its devastating critique of the dishonest propaganda so widely deployed on behalf of the history and activities of the Jewish State. His updated 2008 edition includes a very lengthy summary of the overwhelming evidence of Dershowitz’s plagiarism by a third party researcher who investigated the case, portions of which are also available online at Counterpunch.
So the academic plagiarist escaped any consequences, while the scholar who revealed that plagiarism was permanently exiled from the academic community.
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine
Dershowitz had become a tenured Harvard professor at the age of 28, among the youngest in that university’s history, and Jeffrey Sachs was one of his former colleagues who shared that same distinction. Sachs, like Dershowitz, came from a Jewish background, but was quite different in his temperament and personality, and over the last year or two he has become one of our most prominent public intellectuals, first with regard to the origins of Covid and the Nord Stream pipeline attacks, and soon afterward with his analysis of the Ukraine war and its political roots.
His extremely rare combination of topmost credentials in elite establishment circles together with a remarkable candor in challenging official narratives has propelled him into the media stratosphere, and his numerous interviews have often accumulated hundreds of thousands of views on Youtube, sometimes reaching a million or more. Two of his very early appearances in that rising media arc were with the Gray Zone and Steve Hsu’s Manifold, and these have become the most popular videos in the history of those channels, with the former now approaching a half-million views. Indeed, last year ago I’d suggested that the Columbia University academic had probably become a “rogue elephant” in the minds of his establishmentarian opponents:
- Jeffrey Sachs as Righteous Rogue Elephant
Ron Unz • The Unz Review • October 10, 2022 • 3,500 Words
Different scholars have different fields of expertise, and Sachs is an international economist, whose regions of focus have been the former Soviet Bloc countries, Latin America, and China, but apparently without much emphasis upon the Middle East. However, during the long Covid lock-downs, he expanded his knowledge of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by reading a recently published book by Prof. Rashid Khalidi, one of his Columbia University colleagues, then joined the author for a very interesting hour-long discussion available on Youtube.
By purest chance, I stumbled across that video several months ago, not long before the region suddenly erupted in unexpected violence, and found it an excellent presentation of the important historical facts, many of them previously unknown to me, while Sachs similarly emphasized that he was forced to “unlearn” much of the history that he had casually absorbed over the years. Although many of Sachs’ more recent videos have attracted hundreds of thousands of views or more, after two years this one hadn’t even reached 900, and despite the dramatic events of the last two months, it only finally broke 1,000 views a few days ago. Given the academic stature of the two participants and the current importance of the topic, I hope this may change once more of the world discovers it
This interesting discussion prompted me to read the author’s excellent book, which segmented the century-long struggle between Zionists and Palestinians into six separate conflicts. Although I found his detailed accounts of this history very helpful, I’d already been aware of the general outlines of most of the later portions of the history, so I gained the most from the first two in the list, especially his discussion of the earliest stages of the Zionist colonization project, which greatly accelerated during the two decades of Mandatory Palestine that followed the British conquest of the territory in the First World War.
The story the author tells is a simple one, but rather different from what has been presented in America’s mainstream media. The early Zionist leaders were mostly Central European Jews, and when they focused on Palestine, they explicitly envisioned the establishment of a Jewish nation-state, with most of them believing that the native Palestinians, living there for many centuries, must necessarily be induced to leave or forcibly expelled. Since the Zionist Jews were at first only a tiny minority, entirely consisting of newcomers to the country, such intentions were hardly broadcast, but instead planned for the future.
So in the early years of the twentieth century a small number of ideologically-zealous Central and Eastern Europeans plotted to seize a distant, already heavily-settled land and displace its many hundreds of thousands of longtime, existing inhabitants, a proposal of astonishing audacity, made more so by the fact that they ultimately succeeded. No obvious historical parallel comes to mind.
Although its origins have been disputed, Britain’s 1917 Balfour Declaration had somewhat ambiguously proclaimed that Palestine should become a national homeland for the Jewish people while also maintaining the rights of the existing inhabitants. So soon after Britain captured the country from the Ottoman Empire in 1918, conflicts naturally arose.
In 1921 a prominent American academic visited Palestine and he published his eyewitness account in a leading periodical, documenting the severe hostility between the fanatic Zionist settlers and the huge majority of native Palestinians, with large portions of his report subsequently reprinted in Henry Ford’s national newspaper. Back in those days, the mainstream American media was less totally one-sided than it eventually became, and the following year a long article appeared in a major newspaper syndicate describing those same facts, including the violence and extremism of the Zionists, with that fascinating time-capsule reprinted and discussed in one of our own recent articles.
- Destination 1922: A Return to Claims of the Arabs in Palestine
Sigurd Kristensen • The Unz Review • October 24, 2023 • 5,000 Words
These contemporaneous reports by American journalists and academics seemed to fully corroborate Khalidi’s historical narrative, but I also noticed a further, interesting detail.
For decades, Lord Northcliffe had reigned as Britain’s most powerful media mogul, the imperious owner of the Times of London and other publications, whose bombastic nationalist sentiments and political clout made him the William Hearst or Rupert Murdoch of his era. According to that 1922 news story, during his visit to Palestine, he became outraged over the violent Zionist attacks against both the local majority of non-Zionist Jews and the native Palestinians, and planned to orchestrate a media campaign against Zionism after his return to Britain. Instead, Northcliffe died soon afterwards, claiming to have been poisoned according to the later memoirs of Douglas Reed, his young personal assistant at the time, and the latter was convinced that the Zionists had used lethal means to protect their political project. We should note that in Ronen Bergman’s authoritative 2018 history of Zionist assassinations, one of the earliest victims was a prominent anti-Zionist Jewish leader, killed in 1924 for planning to lobby the British government against the Zionist enterprise.
Having successfully removed various political obstacles to their scheme, the Zionists focused during the 1920s and 1930s on Jewish immigration, seeking to raise their numbers to the point at which they could gain control of the country. The native Palestinians naturally suspected exactly this plan, and conflicts escalated, culminating in an Arab general strike and large scale revolt against foreign rule that began in 1936 and lasted until 1939, harshly suppressed by the British military assisted by Zionist militias. According to Khalidi, an estimated 14 to 17 percent of the entire adult male population of Palestinians was killed, wounded, imprisoned, or exiled during the conflict, severely weakening that community and especially its political leadership for the future military struggle against the Zionists that followed a decade later.
However, after quelling the Arab Revolt, the British sought to reduce future unrest by issuing a White Paper in 1939, sharply curtailing Jewish immigration and promising other restrictions. This provoked bitter Zionist resentment, culminating a few years later in their assassination of Lord Moyne, the British Minister for the Middle East. Indeed, although Khalidi is careful to avoid these very delicate subjects, once World War II broke out, one of the smaller right-wing Zionist factions led by a future prime minister of Israel unsuccessfully sought a military alliance with Hitler and Mussolini, just as the mainstream Zionist movement had heavily relied upon its crucial economic partnership with Nazi Germany throughout the 1930s.
Britain’s wartime leader Prime Minister Winston Churchill was very strongly pro-Zionist, and near the end of the war, he authorized the formation of a Jewish Brigade, allowing the militias of the nascent Zionist state to gain crucial military experience for the coming struggle over Palestine. Meanwhile, the Zionist forces strengthened their political ties to both of the newly emerging superpowers of the United States and the USSR, in the case of the former relying upon America’s influential Jewish community and in the latter upon Palestine’s local Communist Party, which was almost entirely Jewish.
By the end of the Second World War in 1945, Britain was bankrupt and exhausted, retreating from its imperial holdings across much of the world, and even about to lose control of India after more than a century. So the Zionists now sought to drive the British out of Palestine by unleashing a massive wave of violence against them, notably including the 1946 bombing of the King David Hotel, one of the greatest terrorist attacks in the history of the world to that date. Meanwhile, they also worked to bring in as much of Europe’s displaced Jewish population as possible, increasing their numbers for their looming struggle with the Arabs over Palestine.
Finally, in 1947 the British gave up and dumped their Palestine problem into the lap of the newly formed United Nations, which proposed resolving the Zionist-Arab dispute by partitioning the land into two new states. Jews then constituted one-third of the Palestinian population, with most of them having only arrived in the previous three years, while they only owned about 6% of the land. Nonetheless, effective Zionist lobbying persuaded the UN to allocate 55% of Palestine to the majority-Jewish state, with only 45% going to the native Arabs, a decision that the latter naturally regarded as outrageous and an obvious violation of the democratic principles supposedly enshrined in the UN Charter. Meanwhile, the Zionists viewed the glass as half-empty, and intended to gain control of most or all of Palestine while clearing out the existing Arab inhabitants. Therefore, violence soon escalated on both sides.
Backed by both the US and the USSR, the Zionists declared their new State of Israel on May 14, 1948, while the armies of Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, and various other nearby Arab states quickly intervened in support of the beleaguered and outgunned Palestinians. But with the exception of Transjordan’s British-officered Arab Legion, those militaries were puny and had little training, so the far larger and better-organized Zionist forces gained the upper hand, especially after they illegally received a huge shipment of Czech arms from Stalin’s Soviet Bloc during a temporary UN truce in the fighting. Count Folke Bernadotte, the head of the Swedish Red Cross, was appointed UN Peace Negotiator, but some of his proposals were viewed unfavorably by the Zionists, who expressed their displeasure by assassinating him, after which his American successor proved much less disagreeable.
Fighting eventually resumed and the Zionists won a sweeping victory, seizing almost 80% of Palestine and expelling a similar percentage of the Palestinians, who became refugees in the remainder of their territory or in neighboring Arab states.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
One of the major sources on the expulsion of the Palestinians from their homeland was the ground-breaking research by Ilan Pappe, an Israeli historian, and over the years I’d sometimes seen favorable mention of his 2006 book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. So prompted by Khalidi’s much briefer account, I finally read it, finishing the last page just a few days before the unexpected attack by Hamas suddenly propelled the Israel-Palestine conflict back to the center of world attention. Pappe’s work seemed to warrant all the critical praise it had received, with the scholar relying upon exhaustive archival research to reconstruct and document the plans of the Zionist leadership to remove all the Palestinians and create the purely Jewish state that they had always desired.
The term “ethnic cleansing” became widespread in the Western media during the bitter Balkan Wars of the 1990s. The blatant war crimes represented by that term were used to justify NATO bombing attacks against the perpetrators, and some of the leading architects were later brought to trial in the Hague, ending their lives in prison cells. So one very effective framing technique employed by Pappe is to open most of his chapters by quoting a short passage describing some of those Balkan outrages, followed by pages of text demonstrating that the same crimes or far worse ones had also been committed by the Zionist forces a few decades earlier. In those 1990s conflicts, Gen. Wesley Clark, a Supreme NATO commander of Jewish ancestry, had famously declared “There is no place in modern Europe for ethnically pure states.” But a certain Middle Eastern country had earlier received strong American support in its military efforts to achieve exactly that same objective.
One important point emphasized by the author was that from the beginning the Zionist leadership was quite confident of their comfortable military superiority over the forces they might face, not merely the almost unarmed Palestinian civilians whose towns and villages they planned to destroy, but even the armies of the neighboring Arab states that might eventually intervene. According to the myth of later Israeli propaganda, the local Palestinians only began fleeing after the State of Israel was declared and Arab armies invaded, but in actuality by that date some 200 Palestinian villages had already been attacked, with their inhabitants killed or expelled, and this brutal ethnic cleansing was what provoked the Arab military intervention.
Whether or not a local Palestinian village had amicable relations with nearby Zionist settlers was irrelevant and all were targeted for destruction. According to Pappe, the circumstances surrounding the notorious Deir Yassin massacre were particularly disreputable. That village had concluded a formal non-aggression pact with the main Zionist movement, so the leaders of the latter legalistically arranged for the Irgun and Stern Gang forces to launch the attack, which resulted in a brutal massacre of the inhabitants, with word of the horrific atrocities putting many other Palestinians to flight. Ultimately, more than 500 villages were attacked, usually with some of their men summarily executed and the remainder of the population expelled, while the buildings were destroyed and the entire village razed to the ground.
The population of all the Palestinian towns and cities were treated in similar fashion, with one subsection of the book entitled “The Urbicide of Palestine.” Sometimes the inhabitants of nearby villages were deliberately massacred in order to terrorize the urban population and precipitate their flight, which was further encouraged by a bombardment of mortar shells or other high explosives. Any Palestinian property was casually looted, while rapes and gang-rapes also occurred, sometimes culminating with murder, although the true numbers of those incidents cannot be determined.
The year 1948 had begun with only 6% of Palestine’s land under Jewish ownership, but the UN assigned 55% of the territory to the new Jewish state and its victorious military forces soon seized half of the proposed Palestinian state as well, only disappointed because they failed to seize the other half as they had hoped. Their original intent had been to expel all non-Jews from the territory under their control, and although they were ultimately 80% successful in this effort, their failure to dislodge the last 20% before the war ended led to later recriminations. But as Pappe explains, since 1948 Israel’s remaining Palestinian minority has been legally confined to just 2% of the land compared to the 94% they had owned prior to the Zionist seizures and expulsions of that year.
One important point that Pappe makes is that the British had spent nearly three decades maintaining law and order in Palestine, and their military and police forces were still present in very large numbers even after the disposition of the territory had been put into the hands of the UN. As a result, Palestinian civilians had naively assumed that they would be protected from unprovoked attacks by the Zionist militias, and they were therefore shocked and unprepared when the British forces instead stood by and did nothing, placing them at the complete mercy of violent groups who stole their property or killed them with complete impunity.
Although I have never paid much attention to fashion or celebrity magazines, sisters Gigi and Bella Hadid are American supermodels whose images have graced the covers of many of those publications. Their paternal ancestry is Palestinian, and their elderly father recently told the painful story of how his parents had willingly taken in a family of pitiful Jewish refugees who arrived in their country from Europe. But then his mother traveled to a neighboring town for a few days to be with relatives during the birth of her child and when she returned, that Jewish family had seized their home and dispossessed them, refusing to allow them entrance to take any of their family photographs or even a blanket for their new-born baby.
Mohamed Hadid, father of supermodels Bella and Gigi Hadid, talks about how the Jewish refugees his family took in, eventually betrayed his family:
"We were locked out — they wouldn't even let her enter the house to take a single photo of her children".
pic.twitter.com/ebAFC1e2Lb— Dr. Anastasia Maria Loupis (@DrLoupis) December 7, 2023
The United Nations had legally created the State of Israel and in late 1948 after the end of the fighting, UN General Assembly Resolution 194 required the unconditional return of the Palestinian refugees, something that typically happened after the end of every military conflict. But although many of the families had fled their homes only days or weeks earlier, the Israeli government refused to comply, leading to the threat of American sanctions, though these were never imposed. Meanwhile, the Israelis sought to forestall any such possibility by accelerating their destruction of the emptied Palestinian villages and quickly resettling Jews in the abandoned homes of the towns and cities they had seized. For years afterward, the Israelis would regularly shoot as “infiltrators” any Palestinians who tried to return to their homes and land, incidents that gradually set the stage for future wars.
Although I’d strongly recommend reading Pappe’s heavily documented book, those who prefer to absorb his important information in a different format can watch a long 2018 interview of the author, viewed nearly 300,000 times on Youtube, followed by Part Two of that interview or a shorter discussion of the book by a British blogger a few weeks ago.
Historical Analogies, False and True
As demonstrated in his interviews, Pappe is a deeply humanitarian individual of progressive sympathies and an outstanding scholar focused intensely upon the Middle East. So on other matters outside his area of professional expertise, he naturally shares views that are widespread in his ideological circles. For example, although his central theme is the appalling dispossession of the native Palestinians by Zionist settlers, he freely admits that the process was not so very different from what had previously happened in the United States, as European settlers dispossessed and ethnically cleansed the native Amerindians, and Finkelstein has sometimes made the same point. But I think that this historical analogy, so widely promoted both by Israel’s strongest defenders and its fiercest progressive critics, is based upon an extreme misrepresentation of the underlying facts.
Although the Amerindian societies of the Mexican Aztecs and Peruvian Incas were very large and heavily urbanized at the time of the Spanish Conquest, that was not at all the case for North America, which was thinly populated by numerous small tribes, many or most of which still maintained a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. No cities nor urban centers existed and the population was completely pre-literate, though some tribes did adopt civilized lifestyles and the use of a written language after a century or two of European contact.
The overwhelming majority of native deaths were due to the unintentional spread of European diseases for which they possessed no immunity, and most of these victims probably died before they had ever seen a white man or even heard that they existed. According to best estimates, perhaps no more than ten or twenty thousand Amerindians were killed by American whites across nearly three centuries of wars and massacres, a tiny fraction of those who fell in the constant inter-tribal warfare of that same period.
By the time the U.S. government began its successive waves of “Indian removals” during the nineteenth century, the white settler population had grown exponentially and outnumbered the natives by as much as 100-to-1. Furthermore, intermarriage had hardly been unknown, with the First Families of Virginia all proudly tracing their ancestry to an Indian princess, and many ordinary Americans also often made similar claims of having an Amerindian or two in their family tree.
During most of the 1920s, the Republican Senate Majority Leader was Charles Curtis, three-eighths Amerindian by ancestry and an enrolled member of the Kaw Nation. In 1929 Curtis became Herbert Hoover’s Vice President, with his political elevation merely regarded as a minor curiosity instead of something provoking any sort of racial controversy. Most of these important historical facts were effectively presented in Not Stolen by historian Jeff Fynn-Paul, published earlier this year.
Needless to say, if the Jewish settlers in Palestine had already constituted 99% of the local population on the eve of the 1948 war, the situation would have been very different, and the same would be true today if most Israelis proudly boasted of their real or imagined Palestinian ancestry, with a top Israeli political leader having been half-Palestinian. The settlement histories of Israel and America have almost nothing in common.
However, although the histories of the two countries are totally dissimilar, aspects of their current historiographies do share an interesting connection. From its earliest days, American society had been governed by its traditional Anglo-Saxon ruling elite, descendants of the earliest settlers and together with assimilated ethnic groups, constituting a large majority of the national population. But during the twentieth century, their dominance was challenged by rising Jewish elites in a quiet struggle in which schools and universities became a key battlefield. So it is interesting that Howard Zinn and other Jewish academics spearheaded the effort to promote a tendentious or even fraudulent history of American settlement, perhaps regarding it as an ideological weapon that could destroy the political legitimacy of their Gentile rivals, much like Joan Peters unsuccessfully sought to do against the Palestinians.
Although the story of America’s European settlement has little similarity to the unfortunate events that Pappe recounts, there does exist a strikingly close historical analogy, but one that receives no mention in his text. A couple of sentences on the back cover of the paperback edition accurately summarized the contents:
The 1948 Israeli War of Independence involved one of the largest forced migrations in modern history. Around a million people were expelled from their homes at gunpoint, civilians were massacred, and hundreds of Palestinian villages destroyed.
In reading his book, I had the sense that the author was shocked by the horrifying events he was describing, as were the Palestinian victims themselves, and he found it difficult to understand how the Zionist leadership believed that they could get away with crimes of such enormous magnitude, especially in the aftermath of the idealistic principles enshrined in the United Nations Charter by the victorious Allies of the Second World War. The opening pages of his book mention several previous ethnic cleansings, such as the 1913 case of the 200,000 Bulgarians expelled from Turkey. Yet he seems completely unaware that the largest ethnic cleansing in the history of the world, vastly greater in scale than the one he recounts, had taken place just a couple of years earlier, implemented with the full political support of the international organizations he admires.
Although Pappe probably shared the humanitarian sentiments of Freda Utley, it’s possible that he has never heard of that prominent mid-twentieth century journalist. Born an Englishwoman, Utley had married a Jewish Communist and moved to the Soviet Union, then fled to America after her husband fell in one of Stalin’s purges. Following the end of World War II, she traveled to Occupied Germany and described the horrific conditions she saw there, also including mention of events parallel to the subject of Pappe’s book, but more than a dozen times larger, as I discussed in a 2018 article.
Her book also gave substantial coverage to the organized expulsions of ethnic Germans from Silesia, the Sudatenland, East Prussia, and various other parts of Central and Eastern Europe where they had peacefully lived for many centuries, with the total number of such expellees generally estimated at 13 to 15 million. Families were sometimes given as little as ten minutes to leave the homes in which they had resided for a century or more, then forced to march off on foot, sometimes for hundreds of miles, towards a distant land they had never seen, with their only possessions being what they could carry in their own hands. In some cases, any surviving menfolk were separated out and shipped off to slave-labor camps, thereby producing an exodus consisting solely of women, children, and the very elderly. All estimates were that at least a couple million perished along the way, from hunger, illness, or exposure.
These days we endlessly read painful discussions of the notorious “Trail of Tears” suffered by the Cherokees in the distant past of the early 19th century, but this rather similar 20th Century event was nearly a thousand-fold larger in size. Despite this huge discrepancy in magnitude and far greater distance in time, I would guess that the former event may command a thousand times the public awareness among ordinary Americans. If so, this would demonstrate that overwhelming media control can easily shift perceived reality by a factor of a million or more.
The population movement certainly seems to have represented the largest ethnic-cleansing in the history of the world, and if the Germany had ever done anything even remotely similar during its years of European victories and conquests, the visually-gripping scenes of such an enormous flood of desperate, trudging refugees would surely have become a centerpiece of numerous World War II movies of the last seventy years. But since nothing like that ever happened, Hollywood screenwriters lost a tremendous opportunity.
- American Pravda: Post-War France and Post-War Germany
Ron Unz • The Unz Review • July 9, 2018 • 6,600 Words
Although exact figures are unclear, my impression from Pappe’s book is that several thousand Palestinian civilians probably died or were killed during the brutal events he describes, which began in 1947. But according to all estimates, two to three million German civilians had perished during a very similar process that had taken place just two years earlier, as they were expelled from lands they had peacefully occupied for many centuries. Surely the fact that those earlier ethnic expulsions had been ignored or endorsed by the Western governments provided the Zionist leaders with the confidence that their considerable political influence would allow them to do the same in Palestine, a confidence that proved completely warranted.
The Wikipedia article on Ethnic Cleansing runs 6,000 words and includes scores of footnotes and references, but as might be expected, it never mentions the case of the Nakba suffered by the Palestinians, although it was one of the largest such examples in history and is much in the news these days. And for very similar reasons, it barely hints at the German expulsions from that same time period, although these may have been larger than all the other ethnic cleansings in the history of the world combined. Moreover, while the Palestinian tragedy has now finally acquired the identifying name of Nakba in the Western media, no such term has ever lent reality to the contemporaneous, vastly larger expulsions of the Germans, which instead have almost entirely vanished from public memory. For those interested in exploring the topic, I would recommend the important books by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, a longtime human rights lawyer and historian, who spent decades working for the UN.
Some Other Books on the Israel/Palestine Conflict
The books by Khalidi and Pappe greatly fortified my understanding of the 1948 war that had established the State of Israel and simultaneously created a vast number of Palestinian refugees. During the early 1980s I’d read Dan Kurzman’s classic 1970 bestseller Genesis 1948, an entirely mainstream work that had formed my earliest understanding of the conflict. So with my knowledge of the facts now greatly expanded, the sudden outbreak of horrific violence in early October led me to reread that work again after more than 40 years. To my considerable surprise, it actually held up quite well, with the 800 pages of its paperback edition providing a gripping and reasonably even-handed account of the first Arab-Israeli war.
Kurzman was not an academic scholar, but as a prize-winning former Washington Post journalist he drew heavily upon the memoirs and books by some of the leading participants, supplemented by nearly 1,000 interviews with figures on all sides of the conflict. Although his emphasis might slightly favor the Israelis, he actually provided basic facts very different from the standard media narrative, mentioning the considerable superiority in size of the trained Zionist forces over the Arab armies, and the large quantity of new Soviet Bloc weapons the former had illegally received during a lengthy truce in the fighting. The notorious Zionist massacre of the Deir Yassin villagers was described at length, along with the deliberate efforts to expel Palestinians from a number of other communities. The stories of the internal political conflicts within both camps were also told, with the various Arab states often at bitter odds with each other; the same was also true of the different Zionist factions, with the right-wing Zionists actually staging a bloody attempted coup in the middle of the war, with many lives lost as Jew killed Jew. Both Arabs and Zionists made numerous tactical and sometimes strategic blunders, and top military commanders of each side were killed by their own troops under rather suspicious circumstances.
Kurzman’s book was very widely praised at the time it appeared, and although it cannot be considered a scholarly history of the conflict, after more than a half-century I think it still constitutes an excellent journalistic account of the first war, much less biased than the vast majority of everything else written at that time and afterward.
A very different sort of book that I’d strongly recommend is Against Our Better Judgment, self-published in 2014 by Alison Weir, a journalist and anti-Zionist activist. Just as indicated by the subtitle, her work very succinctly summarizes the “hidden history” of Israel’s creation, providing important facts ignored or severely distorted by the mainstream Western media. In her Preface, the author explains that what had originally begun as a long summary article ultimately became a very short book, with the main text running less than 100 small paperback pages, easily readable in just a couple of hours, but also including extensive notes and copious references for those who wish to dig deeper.
Although it contains some serious typos—in present-day terms the dollar value of the Palestinian property seized by the new Israeli state obviously totaled in the billions rather than the trillions—and makes one or two historical claims I find doubtful, Weir is generally a very careful writer and almost everything in her book seems quite solid and reliable, certainly far more so than some lavishly-promoted bestsellers issued by leading publishers and carrying the glowing blurbs of famous literati. If all educated Americans read this short book as a corrective to decades of skewed media propaganda, I think our Middle East policies would be in far better shape.
Evidence that America’s extremely one-sided treatment of the Middle East conflict stretches back for generations is provided by Violent Truce, a short 1956 book that I recently reread several years after first encountering it. The author was Cmdr. E.H. Hutchison, a professional American naval officer who had been assigned to serve as a leader of the UN-authorized international peace-keeping force stationed between Israelis and Arabs in the aftermath of the original 1949 truce agreement.
Near the beginning of the text, the author explained that due to the coverage of the conflict in the American media, he had begun with a strongly favorable impression of Israelis, believing that they were fully in the right on the particulars of the conflict and he was suspicious of their Arab opponents. But once he was on the scene, the day-to-day incidents he encountered quickly led him to a polar-opposite conclusion. Virtually all the illegal actions and truce violations were on the Israeli side, even including a number of potentially deadly incidents directed at the international peace-keepers, not to mention poor Palestinian civilians. Such conclusions obviously differed very sharply from what was presented at the time in most American publications, but his account was fully endorsed and corroborated by several other UN military officers, including the top commanding general, and these individuals provided three separate Forwards to his book.
This first-hand eye-witness account by an American military officer failed to secure any major publisher and was only released by Devin-Adair, a small Irish-American press willing to publish such controversial material. Despite its appearance shortly after the 1956 Suez Crisis and Arab-Israeli war, it attracted little attention and readership compared to subsequent best-sellers glorifying Israel in propagandist terms, such as Exodus by Leon Uris. The manuscript had been finalized in late 1955, and anyone reading it would hardly have been surprised that the following year Israel embarked on a war of aggression against several of its neighbors.
Then as now, major publishers almost invariably shut their doors to books critical of Israel, which could only be released by tiny, often ideological presses or even be self-published. The terrible violence of the Second Intifada during the early 2000s led Counterpunch Press to publish several short books along these lines, which I recently reread after a few years.
The Case Against Israel by Canadian political philosopher Michael Neumann appeared in 2005 and was obviously intended as a response to Dershowitz’s 2003 best-seller of the opposite title. The author effectively laid out the blatant immorality of the creation of the State of Israel as well as the unwarranted political and financial support it has continued to receive despite its harsh oppression of the Palestinians. But even leaving aside such philosophical matters of right and wrong, the text usefully provided a large quantity of important factual and historical information packed into its short length, which can easily be read in just a few hours.
Anyone who strongly criticizes Israeli policies let alone describes its origins and current status as immoral is certain to face bitter accusations of anti-Semitism, a word most recently extended to include criticism of the ongoing slaughter of Gaza’s civilians. The Politics of Anti-Semitism, edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair, was released in 2003 and covered exactly these recurring issues very thoroughly, containing essays by Finkelstein and Neumann along with more than a dozen others who have faced the same charges, notably including Prof. Edward Said of Columbia University. Nothing much has really changed in the last twenty years, except that the media censorship has become far more severe, necessitated by Israel’s far greater recent war crimes.
The “Holocaust Industry” and Israel
There is a close and obvious connection between the Holocaust—the planned extermination of six million European Jews during the Second World War—and the creation of the State of Israel, which followed just three years later. Indeed, in 1993 Israeli historian Tom Segev published The Seventh Million, discussing that exact cause-and-effect relationship, with the meaning of the title clear to everyone. So we should not be surprised that references to the Holocaust appear in almost all of the books discussed above, providing much of the explanation and justification for Israel’s creation. That former historical event has served as an extremely powerful ideological weapon for the Zionists, insulating them from any major repercussions for their conquest and expulsion of the Palestinians.
Without the reality of the Holocaust, the decades-long Zionist project to create a Jewish State almost certainly would have failed. For example, Pappe emphasizes that although the British maintained an enormous military force in Palestine, with 100,000 troops garrisoning a country of less than two million, the political aftermath of the Holocaust left them unable to suppress widespread Zionist attacks using the same harsh methods they had successfully employed a decade earlier to crush the Arab Revolt.
This close connection between Holocaust and Nakba had some ironic consequences. In 1999 Peter Novick published The Holocaust in American Life, a seminal work noting that during the years immediately following the end of World War II, the Holocaust had been almost totally absent from public awareness in America, even among American Jews, and it was only during the 1960s that it gradually became a major topic of public discussion and media coverage, as well as a central issue for American Jewry. In an angry review, Norman Finkelstein argued that the 1967 Arab-Israeli war explained that transformation, as the Zionists desperately resurrected that forgotten history to justify and excuse their war of conquest and the oppression of the Palestinians that followed, while also using that narrative of threat and victimization to cement the loyalty of their wavering American supporters.
The following year Finkelstein expanded some of those same ideas into a short but blistering book entitled The Holocaust Industry, and he is best known for that work, which I’d originally read about a dozen years ago and now reread. According to the first paragraph of his Introduction, the Holocaust has become “an indispensable ideological weapon” that Israel uses to defend its “horrendous human rights record” against the Palestinians, and in the pages that follow he documented the massive corruption and dishonesty of the Jewish organizations involved in Holocaust activism, shaking down countries around the world for many billions of dollars based upon totally fraudulent claims. He also emphasized that many of the highest-profile Holocaust victims were outright fabricators and frauds, with his second chapter entitled “Hoaxers, Hucksters, and History.”
Part of Finkelstein’s outrage came from his personal connection to those historical events, given that both of his parents suffered in the German camps and most of his extended family perished during those wartime years. But he is a specialist on the Middle East rather than the Second World War or the Nazi era, and his overall perspective on the Holocaust seemed absolutely mainstream and conventional, with his work winning the praise of Raul Hilberg, the founder and dean of Holocaust Studies.
Although his book was blacklisted and almost totally ignored by American publications, Europe’s press was much less controlled in that era, and The Holocaust Industry became a huge publishing sensation there and across much of the rest of the world, reaching the top of many national bestseller lists and being translated into at least sixteen different languages.
Finkelstein was certainly correct in arguing that the Holocaust had become one of Israel’s most powerful ideological weapons over the last half-century, a universal get-out-of-jail-free card that allowed the Jewish State to regularly violate all established principles of international law without incurring any serious penalty, while tightly binding the loyalty of Diaspora Jewry in America and the rest of the world. But even the most powerful propaganda tool has an eventual expiration date, and more than three generations have passed since the events in question, so over the years Israel’s advocates have naturally sought out some effective replacement.
Under different circumstances, the Joan Peters theory later revived by Alan Dershowitz might have successfully established itself, with Western societies falling for the blatant hoax that the Palestinians were not native to Palestine, a “Big Lie” that Hollywood would have endlessly echoed in its productions. If so, the genre of “Nakba Denial” films might have gradually succeeded those commemorating the horrors of the Holocaust, thereby completely undercutting any public support for Zionism’s millions of Palestinian victims. It’s hardly surprising that Peters’ ridiculous fraud was strongly endorsed by a towering figure of Holocaust scholarship such as Lucy Dawidowicz, along with Walter Reich, the founding director of the U.S. Holocaust Museum, and 1986 Nobel Laureate Elie Weisel. But Finkelstein himself successfully exposed that hoax before it could grow too deeply entrenched to be challenged.
Therefore, during the current Gaza conflict, the Israelis and their numerous media allies have been forced to rely upon a series of totally grotesque and unsubstantiated atrocity-hoaxes to deflect any criticism of their ongoing slaughter of tens of thousands of helpless Palestinian civilians. First, we were told that Hamas militants had beheaded forty Israeli babies, a story that soon faded away only to be replaced by the tale of a Jewish baby roasted in an oven. Most recently, the mainstream media has been awash with the sudden discovery that Hamas had committed numerous brutal gang-rapes and horrific sexual mutilations on October 7th, events that apparently so traumatized all the victims and witnesses that no mention had ever been made until anonymous sources finally came forward to reveal those stunning facts almost two months later.
Some of these grisly reports of Hamas atrocities seem to echo past Holocaust claims involving Jews rendered into human-skin lampshades and bars of soap, fiendish Nazi atrocities that served as the lurid centerpiece of the Nuremberg Trials and other Allied propaganda, but which were eventually admitted to be total fabrications.
Just a few days ago Grayzone editor Max Blumenthal published an outstanding expose of the utterly disreputable sources of these current Hamas atrocity claims, an article that should be required reading for all journalists
- Scandal-stained Israeli ‘rescue’ group fuels October 7 fabrications
Max Blumenthal • The Grayzone • December 6, 2023 • 4,600 Words
He also discussed the same material in a segment of his recent podcast.
The willingness of all our political and media elites to accept and regurgitate most of those current Hamas atrocity-hoaxes has enabled the continuing slaughter of tens of thousands of helpless Palestinians in Gaza. Reading Blumenthal’s lengthy article describing the actual individuals behind those stories brought to mind a harsh verdict I’d rendered in a 2018 article:
Anyone who reads serious history books knows that Jews have generally enjoyed a reputation for producing many of the world’s greatest swindlers and frauds, hardly surprising given their notorious tendency to lie and dissemble. Meanwhile, the Jewish community also seems to contain far more than its fair share of the emotionally disturbed and the mentally ill, and perhaps as a consequence has served as a launching-pad for many of the world’s religious cults and fanatic ideological movements.
Holocaust Denial, Explicit and Implicit
I think that Blumenthal and others are completely correct in regarding these current atrocity stories as highly implausible propaganda, obviously concocted in support of Israeli policies. But they might be very surprised to discover that soon after Israel’s creation, knowledgeable individuals had condemned the entire traditional Holocaust narrative in very similar terms.
In his bestseller The Holocaust Industry, Finkelstein documented the massive dishonesty and self-serving corruption permeating so many of the most prominent aspects of that supposed historical event, but he never questioned his deeper underlying assumptions and casually dismissed so-called “Holocaust deniers” in just a couple of sentences. However, when I carefully investigated that same issue, I arrived at very different conclusions:
Some years ago, I came across a totally obscure 1951 book entitled Iron Curtain Over America by John Beaty, a well-regarded university professor. Beaty had spent his wartime years in Military Intelligence, being tasked with preparing the daily briefing reports distributed to all top American officials summarizing available intelligence information acquired during the previous 24 hours, which was obviously a position of considerable responsibility.
Beaty also sharply denounced American support for the new state of Israel, which was potentially costing us the goodwill of so many millions of Muslims and Arabs. And as a very minor aside, he also criticized the Israelis for continuing to claim that Hitler had killed six million Jews, a highly implausible accusation that had no apparent basis in reality and seemed to be just a fraud concocted by Jews and Communists, aimed at poisoning our relations with postwar Germany and extracting money for the Jewish State from the long-suffering German people.
Furthermore, he was scathing toward the Nuremberg Trials, which he described as a “major indelible blot” upon America and “a travesty of justice.” According to him, the proceedings were dominated by vengeful German Jews, many of whom engaged in falsification of testimony or even had criminal backgrounds. As a result, this “foul fiasco” merely taught Germans that “our government had no sense of justice.” Sen. Robert Taft, the Republican leader of the immediate postwar era took a very similar position, which later won him the praise of John F. Kennedy in Profiles in Courage. The fact that the chief Soviet prosecutor at Nuremberg had played the same role during the notorious Stalinist show trials of the late 1930s, during which numerous Old Bolsheviks confessed to all sorts of absurd and ridiculous things, hardly enhanced the credibility of the proceedings to many outside observers.
Then as now, a book taking such controversial positions stood little chance of finding a mainstream New York publisher, but it was soon released by a small Dallas firm, and then became enormously successful, going through some seventeen printings over the next few years. According to Scott McConnell, founding editor of The American Conservative, Beaty’s book became the second most popular conservative text of the 1950s, ranking only behind Russell Kirk’s iconic classic, The Conservative Mind.
Moreover, although Jewish groups including the ADL harshly condemned the book, especially in their private lobbying, those efforts provoked a backlash, and numerous top American generals, both serving and retired, wholeheartedly endorsed Beaty’s work, denouncing the ADL efforts at censorship and urging all Americans to read the volume. Although Beaty’s quite explicit Holocaust Denial might shock tender modern sensibilities, at the time it seems to have caused barely a ripple of concern and was almost totally ignored even by the vocal Jewish critics of the work.
Thus, Beaty’s huge 1951 national bestseller attracted enormous attention as well as massive criticism from Jews and liberals, yet although he was bitterly attacked on every other issue, none of them challenged him when he dismissed the Holocaust as merely a wartime propaganda-hoax that few still believed. Furthermore, a long list of our top World War II military commanders strongly endorsed Beaty’s book making that claim.
As Novick has documented, during the decade or two following the end of the Second World War, the Holocaust seemed to have almost entirely disappeared from Western consciousnesses, a very strange development for an event of such supposedly enormous magnitude. In support of this conclusion, one of the very few books discussed above that made no mention of it in the context of Israel was Hutchinson’s mid-1950s account of his experience as a UN truce inspector in that region. No one reading his story would have ever suspected that the Jews of Israel were “the seventh million,” the pitiful remnant that had survived the annihilation of nearly all of European Jewry. The corresponding postwar chapters of an exhaustive investigation of the U.S. military by Holocaust scholar Joseph Bendersky provided a very similar absence of any such awareness.
As I went on to explain during my 2018 analysis of “Holocaust denial”:
Beaty’s very brief 1951 discussion has been the earliest instance of explicit Holocaust Denial I have managed to locate, but the immediate postwar years seem absolutely rife with what might be described as “implicit Holocaust Denial,” especially within the highest political circles.
Over the years, Holocaust scholars and activists have very rightfully emphasized the absolutely unprecedented nature of the historical events they have studied. They describe how some six million innocent Jewish civilians were deliberately exterminated, mostly in gas chambers, by one of Europe’s most highly cultured nations, and emphasize that monstrous project was often accorded greater priority than Germany’s own wartime military needs during the country’s desperate struggle for survival. Furthermore, the Germans also undertook enormous efforts to totally eliminate all possible traces of their horrifying deed, with huge resources expended to cremate all those millions of bodies and scatter the ashes. This same disappearance technique was even sometimes applied to the contents of their mass graves, which were dug up long after initial burial, so that the rotting corpses could then be totally incinerated and all evidence eliminated. And although Germans are notorious for their extreme bureaucratic precision, this immense wartime project was apparently implemented without benefit of a single written document, or at least no such document has ever been located.
Lipstadt entitled her first book “Beyond Belief,” and I think that all of us can agree that the historical event she and so many others in academia and Hollywood have made the centerpiece of their lives and careers is certainly one of the most extremely remarkable occurrences in all of human history. Indeed, perhaps only a Martian Invasion would have been more worthy of historical study, but Orson Welles’s famous War of the Worlds radio-play which terrified so many millions of Americans in 1938 turned out to be a hoax rather than real.
The six million Jews who died in the Holocaust certainly constituted a very substantial fraction of all the wartime casualties in the European Theater, outnumbering by a factor of 100 all the British who died during the Blitz, and being dozens of times more numerous than all the Americans who fell there in battle. Furthermore, the sheer monstrosity of the crime against innocent civilians would surely have provided the best possible justification for the Allied war effort. Yet for many, many years after the war, a very strange sort of amnesia seems to have gripped most of the leading political protagonists in that regard.
Robert Faurisson, a French academic who became a prominent Holocaust Denier in the 1970s, once made an extremely interesting observation regarding the memoirs of Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle:
Three of the best known works on the Second World War are General Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill’s The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). In these three works not the least mention of Nazi gas chambers is to be found.
Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war.
Given that the Holocaust would reasonably rank as the single most remarkable episode of the Second World War, such striking omissions must almost force us to place Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle among the ranks of “implicit Holocaust Deniers.”
Many others seem to fall into that same category. In 1981, Lucy S. Dawidowicz, a leading Holocaust scholar, published a short book entitled The Holocaust and the Historians, in which she denounced so many prominent historians for having totally ignored the reality of the Holocaust for many years following World War II. Indeed, discussion of that topic was almost entirely confined to the Jewish Studies programs which committed ethnic activists had newly established at numerous universities throughout the country. Although Lipstadt’s poor scholarly habits and hysterical style hardly impressed me, she appears to have been among the most successful academics who began a career in those ethnic studies departments, which suggests that their average quality was far below her own.
Meanwhile, Dawidowicz emphasized that mainstream histories often entirely omitted the Holocaust from their presentations:
But it is plain from the most cursory review of textbooks and scholarly works by English and American historians that the awesome events of the Holocaust have not been given their historic due. For over two decades some secondary school and college texts never mentioned the subject at all, while others treated it so summarily or vaguely as to fail to convey sufficient information about the events themselves or their historical significance.
With regard to serious scholarship, she notes that when Friedrich Meinecke, universally acknowledged as Germany’s most eminent historian, published The German Catastrophe in 1946, he harshly denounced Hitler as the leader of “a band of criminals” but made absolutely no mention of the Holocaust, which surely would have represented the height of such criminality. Major British accounts of Hitler and World War II by leading historians such as A.J.P. Taylor, H.R. Trevor-Roper, and Alan Bullock were almost as silent. A similar situation occurred in America as late as 1972 when the massive 1,237 page Columbia History of the World, having a Jewish co-editor, devoted a full chapter to World War II but confined its discussion of the Holocaust to just two short and somewhat ambiguous sentences. One almost gets a sense that many of these experienced professional historians regarded discussion of the Holocaust as a considerable embarrassment, a subject that they sought to avoid or at least completely minimize.
Dawidowicz even castigates Slaughterhouse-Five, the 1969 fictional masterpiece by Kurt Vonnegut, for its bald assertion that the firebombing of Dresden was “the greatest massacre in European history,” a claim that seems to reduce the Holocaust to non-existence.
I myself had noticed something similar just a couple of years before Dawidowicz’s book appeared. The English translation of German journalist Joachim Fest’s widely praised Hitler had been published in 1974 and I had read it a few years later, finding it just as excellent as the critics had indicated. But I remember being a little puzzled that the 800 page book contained no more than a couple of pages discussing the Nazi death camps and the word “Jews” never even appeared in the index.
The vast majority of Hitler’s Jewish victims came from Russia and the Eastern European nations included in the Soviet Bloc. That was also the location of all the extermination camps that are the central focus of Holocaust scholars, and therefore the Soviets were the source of most of the key evidence used at the Nuremberg Trials. Yet Dawidowicz notes that after Stalin grew increasingly suspicious of Jews and Israel a few years after the end of the war, virtually all mention of the Holocaust and German wartime atrocities against Jews vanished from the Soviet media and history books. A similar process occurred in the Warsaw Pact satellites, even while the top Communist Party leadership of many of those countries often remained very heavily Jewish for some years. Indeed, I recall reading quite a number of newspaper articles mentioning that after the Berlin Wall fell and the sundered halves of Europe were finally reunited, most Eastern Europeans had never even heard of the Holocaust.
These days, my morning newspapers seem to carry Holocaust-related stories with astonishing frequency, and probably no event of the twentieth century looms so large in our public consciousness. According to survey data, even as far back as 1995, some 97% of Americans knew of the Holocaust, far more than were aware of the Pearl Harbor attack or America’s use of the atomic bombs against Japan, while less than half our citizenry were aware that the Soviet Union had been our wartime ally. But I’d suspect that anyone who drew his knowledge from the mainstream newspapers and history books during the first couple of decades after the end of the Second World War might never have even been aware that any Holocaust had actually occurred.
The late scholar Raul Hilberg is universally acknowledged as the founder of modern Holocaust studies, which began with the 1961 publication of his massive volume The Destruction of the European Jews. In his very interesting 2007 Hilberg obituary, historian Norman Finkelstein emphasizes that prior to Hilberg’s work, there had been virtually no writing on the Holocaust, and discussion of the topic was considered almost “taboo.” For a recent event of such apparent enormity to have been so completely wiped away from public discussion and the consciousness of historians and political scientists can be explained in several different ways. But once I began to investigate the circumstances behind Hilberg’s ground-breaking work, I encountered all sorts of strange ironies.
According to Wikipedia, Hilberg’s family of Austrian Jews coincidentally arrived in the United States on the exact day in 1939 that war broke out, and in his early teens he was soon horrified to read all the news reports of the ongoing extermination of his fellow Jews in the continent his family had left behind, even telephoning Jewish leaders asking why they were doing so little to save their kinsmen from annihilation. He subsequently served in the U.S. military in Europe, then majored in Political Science at Brooklyn College after the end of the conflict. The inspiration for his future scholarly focus seems to have come when he was shocked by a remark made by one of his lecturers, Hans Rosenberg:
The most wicked atrocities perpetrated on a civilian population in modern times occurred during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain.
When Hilberg asked how Rosenberg, himself a German-Jewish refugee, could have so totally ignored the murder of 6 million Jews, a monstrous crime committed just a couple of years earlier, Rosenberg sought to deflect the question, saying that “it was a complicated matter” and “history doesn’t teach down into the present age.” Since Rosenberg was a student of Meinecke, whom Lipstadt has bitterly denounced as an implicit Holocaust Denier, one wonders whether Rosenberg may have shared the beliefs of his mentor but was reluctant to admit that fact to his overwhelmingly Jewish students in emotionally-charged postwar Brooklyn.
Later, Hilberg conducted his doctoral research at Columbia under Franz Neumann, another German-Jewish refugee scholar. But when Hilberg indicated he wanted his research to focus on the extermination of Europe’s Jews, Neumann strongly discouraged that topic, warning Hilberg that doing so would be professionally imprudent and might become “his academic funeral.” When he attempted to publish his research in book form, it received numerous negative reviews, with Israel’s Yad Vashem fearing it would encounter “hostile criticism,” and over a six year period, it was rejected by several major publishing houses along with Princeton University, based on the advice of the influential Jewish intellectual Hannah Arendt. One naturally wonders whether all these established scholars may have quietly known something that a naive young doctoral candidate such as Hilberg did not. His book only appeared in print because a Jewish immigrant whose business had suffered under the Nazis funded the entire publication.
Consider the interesting case of Field Marshal Erhard Milch, Hermann Goering’s very powerful number-two in the German Luftwaffe. His father was certainly a Jew, and according to researchers Robert Wistrich and Louis Snyder, there is archival evidence that his mother was Jewish as well. Now it is certainly not impossible that a Third Reich supposedly dedicated with grim fanaticism to the extermination of each and every Jew might have spent the entire war with a full- or half-Jew near the absolute top of its military hierarchy, but surely that puzzling anomaly would warrant careful explanation, and Milch’s apparent Jewish background was certainly known during the Nuremberg Trials.
Indeed, the fascinating and widely-praised 2002 book Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers by Bryan Mark Rigg notes that aside from Milch, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers, with a large fraction of these being officers. All of these individuals would have had some fully-Jewish parents or grand-parents, which seems decidedly odd behavior for a regime supposedly so focused on the total eradication of the Jewish race.
My belief is that anyone who carefully reads the books of leading Holocaust scholars such as Peter Novick, Deborah Lipstadt, Lucy Dawidowicz, and Joseph Bendersky with an open mind and a skeptical eye will inevitably come to the same conclusion that I did:
I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so.
- American Pravda: Holocaust Denial
Ron Unz • The Unz Review • August 27, 2018 • 17,600 Words
Inversions of Reality, Now and in the Past
For more than two months, Israeli forces have relentlessly bombarded Gaza, committing the greatest televised massacre of helpless civilians in the history of the world. Israeli leaders have regularly used genocidal language to describe their plans, even suggesting that nuclear weapons be used to completely annihilate Gaza’s population of more than two million. Many tens of thousands of buildings have been destroyed, including hospitals, schools, universities, and all the other civilian facilities whose deliberate targeting during military conflicts have always been regarded as war crimes.
Yet when the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court recently visited Israel, his primary focus was upon preparing charges against Hamas and other Palestinian groups for the deaths of Israeli civilians in early October.
And even in that regard, there is growing evidence that many or most of the unarmed Israeli civilians killed in the original Hamas attack actually died at the hands of trigger-happy Israeli forces, suggesting that the true ratio of such victims may now be greater than 100-to-1 against the Palestinians.
All these facts are easily available to anyone who investigates the matter. But the vast majority of Americans who derive their knowledge of the world from our mainstream broadcast media probably continue to see the Israelis as the helpless, suffering victims, a remarkable inversion of reality. As I had explained in 2018, the unfortunate history of the twentieth century provides even greater examples of such strange reversals of reality:
Indeed, the topic of Communism raises a far larger issue, one having rather touchy implications. Sometimes two simple compounds are separately inert, but when combined together may possess tremendous explosive force. From my introductory history classes and readings in high school, certain things had always seemed glaringly obvious to me even if the conclusions remained unmentionable, and I once assumed they were just as apparent to most others as well. But over the years I have begun to wonder whether perhaps this might not be correct.
Back in those late Cold War days, the death toll of innocent civilians from the Bolshevik Revolution and the first two decades of the Soviet Regime was generally reckoned at running well into the tens of millions when we include the casualties of the Russian Civil War, the government-induced famines, the Gulag, and the executions. I’ve heard that these numbers have been substantially revised downwards to perhaps as little as twenty million or so, but no matter. Although determined Soviet apologists may dispute such very large figures, they have always been part of the standard narrative history taught within the West.
Meanwhile, all historians know perfectly well that the Bolshevik leaders were overwhelmingly Jewish, with three of the five revolutionaries Lenin named as his plausible successors coming from that background. Although only around 4% of Russia’s population was Jewish, a few years ago Vladimir Putin stated that Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government, an estimate fully consistent with the contemporaneous claims of Winston Churchill, Times of London correspondent Robert Wilton, and the officers of American Military Intelligence. Recent books by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Yuri Slezkine, and others have all painted a very similar picture. And prior to World War II, Jews remained enormously over-represented in the Communist leadership, especially dominating the Gulag administration and the top ranks of the dreaded NKVD.
Both of these simple facts have been widely accepted in America throughout my entire lifetime. But combine them together with the relatively tiny size of worldwide Jewry, around 16 million prior to World War II, and the inescapable conclusion is that in per capita terms Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close. And yet, by the astonishing alchemy of Hollywood, the greatest killers of the last one hundred years have somehow been transmuted into being seen as the greatest victims, a transformation so seemingly implausible that future generations will surely be left gasping in awe.
Our false image of historical reality is constructed and maintained on a daily basis by journalists, but I suspect that most of them remain just as unaware of the true facts as the rest of our society.
Consider the case of Emily Bazelon, whose New York Times Magazine cover-story described the tragic, three-decade failure of Israeli and Palestinians to achieve a just peace in their bitter conflict.
Based upon her background, I would assume that she is a staunch liberal, enormously proud of her grand-father David L. Bazelon, who reigned for more than two decades as the Chief Justice of America’s most important Appellate court, a jurist whose enormous influence on civil libertarian matters had established him as one of the most influential judicial figures of the twentieth century, a towering hero of American progressives. In that role, he had also served as a mentor to Alan Dershowitz, who had clerked for him, and surely helped shape the latter’s notions of honesty and justice.
I had never questioned those facts. But several years ago I read a pair of very thick volumes on the history of organized crime by Gus Russo, one of our leading investigative reporters on that subject and discovered that important elements had been airbrushed out of Bazelon’s celebrated background. Bazelon had been elevated to the bench at the age of 40, becoming the youngest Appellate justice in American history. But prior to that, his personal legal activities had been of a rather different type.
After beginning his career as a young mob-lawyer for Al Capone’s Chicago Syndicate, he had then played a central role in looting the property of the dispossessed Japanese-Americans of California and distributing their billions of dollars worth of seized assets to other Jewish families with Syndicate ties on extremely favorable terms, while becoming very wealthy through the huge kickbacks he collected. Thus, during exactly the same years that Zionist settlers were dispossessing and looting the property of the unfortunate inhabitants of Palestine on racial grounds, their Jewish cousins in America were doing much the same thing to a different group within the United States:
- American Pravda: The Power of Organized Crime
How a Young Syndicate Lawyer from Chicago Earned a Fortune Looting the Property of the Japanese-Americans, then Lived Happily Ever After as America’s Most Respected Civil Libertarian Federal Appellate Court Judge
Ron Unz • The Unz Review • July 15, 2019 • 13,000 Words
Related Reading:
- Bibliography
- American Pravda: Oddities of the Jewish Religi on
- American Pravda: Jews and Nazis
- Zionism, Antisemitism, and Racialism
- Pro-Israel Propaganda-Lies vs. Reality
- American Pravda: War Crimes and Atrocity-Hoaxes in the Israel/Gaza Conflict
- American Pravda: Gaza and the Antisemitism Hoax
- American Pravda: Holocaust Denial
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Given your prior assertion that Harvard should be tuition free, you must have some reaction to the spectre of major donors withdrawing their support after the anti-Semitism hearings.
The last UNSC Resolution to stop the Jews killing Palestinian women and children by Israeli Jews was vetoed by the U.S. The U.S. is complicit in all Israel’s war crimes against the Palestinians. It is doubling down on lies to justify war crimes. The Jew Antony Blinken went to Israel last week to consult with Netanyahu and attack the Palestinians again. Jews displayed truly chilling callousness and disregard for the sanctity of human life, with Western unconditional support to kill Palestinian children and babies. Since 07 October 2023, more than 20,000 innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians, including 7000 children and 5000 women, have been needlessly killed. A Palestinian child/baby is dying every ten minutes, slowly and agonizingly beneath the rubble of what used to be her home, hardly matters to Western politicians/Congressmen and their Zionist media.
According to UNICEF, the Jews have turned Gaza hospitals into massive graveyards. Israelis are very scared to fight HAMAS fighter. They avenge on the civilian population. It does not make sense and you cannot win war by killing women and children unless the aim is Genocide, a real holocaust. James Elder, spokesperson for UNICEF said: the world “cannot see more children with the wounds of war, with the burns, with the shrapnel littering their body, with the broken bones. This is a war on children.”
Say anything, you like about the German Nazis, but the Nazis never bombed refugee camps, schools and hospitals full of Jewish children. Jews are enjoying it every day, murdering Palestinian children en masse. We all know, One million Jews are not worth a Palestinian baby fingernail.
The hardest thing for me to understand is why Arabs don’t stick up for each other. I suppose if China did a Nakba in California a lot of Americans would secretly be happy and feel like the Californians deserved it. Is there a similar dynamic at play here?
Do you have any influence with a nation that can #InvokeGenocideConvention with the ICJ (International Court of Justice)? It only takes one country, and the ICJ would be forced to act.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/12/stopping-genocide/
For me, this current Israeli-Palestinian conflict means I can never support any conservative party or mainstream “conservative intellectual” ever again, (or conservative religious organizations such as Hagee’s, which have been exposed as evil). For them to grandstand on their various platforms as if this is not a slaughter and an human travesty…I simply don’t know what to say.
I’ve never been a religious person but I find myself reading a lot about gnosticism recently, which has been accused of “antisemitism,” but which strikes me as far more realistic and human than Judaism or Christianity. Rebel against the Hypostasis of the Archons!
Appreciate your straight as it is education on these subjects. A masterpiece!
Oh, FFS, whose bright idea was it to choose a Jewess to moderate a meeting between Jews and Arabs? Are you seriously going to tell us that there were no disinterested goyim available to at least give the appearance of neutrality?
Either somebody was inexcusably solipsistic and tone-deaf, or the Jews are once again letting it be known to everyone that they WILL be the dominant party in any dialog between themselves and Arabs, in any venue, optics and perception be damned.
Israelis continue to collect welfare checks from German taxpayers for the Holocaust but have they ever paid a single dime in reparations to any of their own victims? As Ron has previously noted, Jews are, per capita, by far the greatest murderers of the 20th century. Yet, weirdly, they’ve never paid any reparations to any of their own victims. Why?
Why hasn’t the global Jewish community paid any reparations to the victims of the Bolshevik Revolution, the Gulag concentration camp system or the programs of forced collectivization which killed millions, given that Jews were so massively overrepresented in the Soviet leadership? Among the most prolific of murderers were Genrikh Yagoda, Lazar Kaganovich and Filip Goloschtschokin, all of them Jews. Have any of their victims ever received a dime from world Jewry?
In the language of Winston Churchill:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism
Actually, Churchill was wrong about Lenin whom we now know today was also of Jewish descent.
Has the global Jewish community paid any reparations to the victims of the Nakba – to Mohammed Hadid and his family whose home was stolen by Jewish refugees that they graciously accepted into their homes in 1948? Or to the other over 700,000 other Palestinians who had their homes and lands stolen from them? Or to the tens of thousands of families who lost fathers and brothers due to Israel’s campaign of ethnic cleansing, terrorism and murder?
Has the global Jewish community paid any reparations to the victims of the war in Iraq or the other Middle Eastern wars which Americans were witlessly duped into fighting on their behalf due to lobbying by AIPAC and fraudulent “intelligence” by Mossad, which falsely claimed that there were WMDs (claims laundered by the Jewish New York Times and Jewish “journalists” like Judith Miller)?
Has the global Jewish community paid reparations to the Americans whom it tricked into fighting those wars? What about the families of Americans who died on 9/11 – an terror attack which was blowback primarily motivated by America’s blind irrational support for Israel? Israel as a powerful motive for 9/11 was clearly spelled out by the testimony of its architect, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and Bin Laden himself.
Furthermore, did Israel pay any reparations for having failed to alert America to the attack which it knew was imminently going to occur – as evidenced by the arrest and interrogation of Israeli spies on that day – the infamous “dancing Israelis.” One of these lovely chaps was quoted in FBI documents as saying “Give us 20 years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country.” It’s almost as if Jewish methods of subversion which in the West are denounced as “blood libels” – in Israel are unabashedly and generally recognized as fact.[1]
Not only have the Israelis *not* paid reparations to any of these various victims it continues to victimize them. Even as Israelis continue to live fat off of German “reparations” checks (80 years on) and American taxpayer money – and even as Israel continues to murder and dispossess the Palestinians from their homes and continuously endeavors to sucker America into dismembering its remaining regional enemies – like Iran.
Perhaps “reparations” are things that only gentiles pay to Jews and never the reverse? Like tribute? Why is that? Because Jews won the war? Because Jews control the media and therefore determine which “crimes” really “matter” – and thus warrant “reparations” – and which don’t.
Again, is any of this Western support really “reparations” that Israel has extracted from the West – or is it tribute? Tribute from their conquered slaves – the collective West. While Jews continue to play the helpless victims who require endless financial support and that rules, like FARA, always be broken in their favor, they sometimes can’t help but to carelessly boast of their true power and the nature of their relationship with the West, as being one not of victimhood but of conquest:
[1]
“Those to whom evil is done,” as the poet Auden put it,
“do evil in return.”
Holo Hoax
Thank you, Mr. Unz.
It’s been argued that George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” was about the Soviets being the pigs and taking over from the farmer. However, he may have had things only half right if that was his theme. Seems to me that the pig is the Totem Animal for a particular group who were most active in the original Bolshevik counter-revolution.
As anthropologists have long recognized, primitive Tribal peoples do not eat of the flesh of their Totem Animals.
But my oh my, that sizzling bacon sure does smell good.
“The Human Rights Watch also released a statement saying: “By continuing to provide Israel with weapons [and] diplomatic cover as it commits atrocities, including collectively punishing the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza, the U.S. risks complicity in war crimes.”
These condemnations were directed at the U.S. following its veto of the UN Security Council’s plea for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza. The responses underscore the fundamental stance in recognizing and vocalizing against unjust actions.”
——————————
Reminds me of the opening scene of “Kiss of Death” and Richard Widmark’s crazed voice laughing hysterically while pushing the wheelchair occupant down a long flight of stairs—-mens rea.
Psychopaths —–Biden Netanyahu Blinken
I know this is not the key point of the essay, but the description of the American Natives and their genocide at the hands of European settlers I challange. If one studies the subject close enough, one finds that the North American continent was well populated with many highly civilized people many of whom were organized into “Nations.” Note that the Constitution of the United States was in part founded on the Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy. That the land was only thinly populated by primative peoples is also a hoax, much like the hoax that Palistine was thinly populated, and Palistinians did not exist. I believe if one researches the subject properly, one will find there is much similarity between what happened in America then, and what is happening in the Middle-East now. One may come to see a much greater world dynamic is taking place over the course of history to which this latest Israeli atrocity is just the latest chapter. Quisling Middle-East leaders ought take heed, and study American history more closely.
This was very educational regarding the earliest interactions between Zionist Jews and the Palestinians. The terrible violence and theft committed by the Zionist settlers against the indigenous Palestinians prior to and shortly after Israel’s creation combined with the inversion of this reality by Israel’s supporters makes me even more pro-Hamas than I was previously.
The conquest of the North Amerindians’ land by white settlers clearly differs from what the Zionists did to the Palestinians, both because the overwhelming majority of Indians died of contagious diseases, and also because the Palestinians are a civilized people, not a set of primitive warring tribes of hunters and gatherers. However, I’m not sure it’s accurate to portray American Anglos and their leaders as having a lot more continuity with the Indians than Israeli Jews have with the Palestinians. Yes, a nontrivial fraction of American whites have a trivial amount of Amerindian ancestry, but isn’t there a very large Palestinian minority living within Israel that gets to vote and serve in government there?
It was nice to see the section recapitulating the evidence in favor of Holocaust denial appended to bunch of Israel material. The Holocaust’s role as the moral justification for Israel’s existence is the best reason to vehemently deny the reality of that huge historical event.
1. Probably they don’t want to be attacked in force by the decrepitating, crazed, but still powerful fully Jewish owned hegemon, otherwise known as Fatmerica and its vassals.
2. Quite reasonably other Arab nations don’t want to give the Jews a free ride by taking responsibility for their pestilent and unwanted Palestinian demographic. This demographic is quite reasonably deemed to be a problem fully owned by Jews.
Thus, the unfortunate Palestinians are fated to always be the meat in the sandwich. The only light on the horizon is the possibility of a nuke landing on the place after the Palestinians have all been killed off.
So American involvement in WWII had nothing at all to do with a mostly fictional Holocaust. But decades after the fact, that American involvement was retroactively justified by those mostly fictional accounts in order to support Zionism. The fiction being the following: Americans fought in Europe in WWII to save the Jews from the Holocaust, so we must continue to protect the Jewish State. The reality being the following: America fought in Europe in WWII to try to save the collapsing British Empire, which collapsed anyway.
And the British when their empire collapsed left the world with the Zionist mess via the British Mandate of Palestine. (How much of American history is a result of our being led around by the British like a dog on a leash?)
Interesting parallels to Lincoln’s War of Northern Aggression.
Decades after that war, it was retroactively justified as a war to free black slaves from oppression by Southern white racists. This fictional account was then used in the 1960s and afterwards to justify preferential treatment of blacks. The fiction being the following: Lincoln conducted war to free black slaves from white racists, so America needs to give blacks racial preferences to compensate. The reality being the following; Lincoln conducted the war because the South resisted being economically oppressed, tax-farmed by the North via confiscatory tariffs. Lincoln’s war was conducted to oppress whites, not free blacks.
And after destroying the economic structure of the South, Yankees have continued to oppress the white race and prefer the black race in a vain attempt to bring blacks up to a level of equality with whites.
History, like the Media, is a tool used by the Ruling Class for their own purposes.
7 million Hindus were expelled by Pakistan entity in 1947. They were not supported by UN aid and after a few years were settled in various parts of India that were left to the Hindus.
Same with multitudes of other people–the Germans, the Tibetans, etc etc. Only a couple of months ago, the Armenians of Nogorno-Karabakh suffered their Nakba with no outpouring of sympathy from goodthinkers.
Why are Palestinian refugees so privileged?
Another reason for Peace on Earth. [3 min]
The first „explicit Holocaust Denial“ was by Hermann Wilhelm Göring during the All-lies Nürnberger Tribunal.
The only connection between the Jews’ Holocaust – the killing of 20 million plus the displacing of another 20 million Germans – and the Jews’ Nakba is, that both crimes are essences of Judaism.
To stink that the Nakba is a consequence of The Poor Jews being displaced by The Evil Germans is Jewish essence blooming.
Unz, you are going well (up the stairway); good on you.
Here’s what they’re up against.
War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank
https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html
You could equally ask why Americans don’t stick up for each other, in the face of the same enemy.
From Uri Ben-Eliezer’s War over Peace: One Hundred Years of Israel’s Militaristic Nationalism:
“Her book also gave substantial coverage to the organized expulsions of ethnic Germans from Silesia, the Sudatenland”
Only traitors were expelled from Sudetenland. Those who did not welcome Hitler could stay. They first expelled Czechs in 1938, it was fully deserved what happened to them. They were expelled in organized manner, you are spreading lies.
“Joan Peters” and “Jordan Peterson”… We need to find a way to “smoke out” the C-Jews
The Nakba is real and has been going on for almost a century.
The Holohoax didn’t happen, it should have happened, and it will happen.
And the point you wanted to make was? Is there some action you are calling for by your readers, other than usual bleeding heart whining about the plight of the poor starving Palestinian woman and children?
These people are simply collateral damage. That’s unfortunate for them. I don’t understand why this point is so difficult to grasp. Collateral damage is part and parcel with warfare.
Probably it also has something to do with god belief and religions. But anyone’s personal religious beliefs are theirs alone.
There is nothing special about woman and children when it comes to war. Despite being paid off nicely by Israel/Qatar to remain peaceful, Hamas broke the peace. Therefore, Israel is exacting retribution upon Hamas. The civilians have been given adequate warning to get out of the way (which is more than say, Russia does). Many chose not to and so they will pay the price.
I doubt that the Palestinians will ever get their own state. Certainly, having a state made up of Gaza and the West Bank with Israel physically in-between would never work for a wide variety of reasons.
If the daily truckloads of free aid and the millions of $$ from countries like Qatar were removed, the Palestinians would not be able to survive independently. Their best options now is to integrate into other Arab country and come back to the new greater Israel as a tourist or contract worker.
Did you want to propose a solution, such as Hamas surrendering or did you just want to join the TUR whine cellar?
A couple of websites devoted to detailing the experience of specific villages during the 1947-48 War
Palestine Land Society
https://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/articles/2019/when-the-denial-bubble-bursts-an-israeli-kibbutz-faces-the-nakba
Balfour Project
https://balfourproject.org/classified-docs-reveal-massacres-of-palestinians-in-48-and-what-israeli-leaders-knew/
Some significant Aspects of Internarional Law regarding reparations due to Arabs worth reading:
UNR 194 (11.Dec 1948)
UNSC 2334 (2016)
And the remarkable ICJ advisory opinion of 2004
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-178825/
You armchair lawyers never learn. What Israel is doing is well within standard international law when a country is allowed to go after an attacker.
Additionally, what Israel is doing is not LEGALLY a “genocide”, which for your reference is defined as:
Killing 20-40k out of a population of 2.5 million does not meet the standard of large and two, Israel is going after Hamas. The civilians just happen to be in the way. Woe is them.
Ron Unz has yet again published an essay which is equal, or superior to, virtually anything produced by any media entity or organization anywhere in the world.
Succinctly, two points – the name Emily Bazelon rang a bell, and sure enough she is the granddaughter of the long-deceased (d. 1993) and, throughout a long and disgusting life, notoriously corrupt Federal appellate judge David Bazelon. Gus Russo’s outstanding 2006 book Supermob provides many details of Bazelon’s sordid personal and professional life. A look at “Wiki”-type sites provides nothing that is not kosher, so to speak (Bazelon was Jewish).
Point number two – there may be no one living who more admires the late Dr. Revilo Oliver than I. If you know who he was, no biography is necessary; if you do not, no comment on an internet site will suffice. He justly earned a reputation for scathing (and often hilarious) commentaries on Jewish control over befuddled Whites, but he admired honest and intelligent men like Richard Feynman (1918-1988), the ethnically Jewish theoretical physicist. Dr. Oliver wrote an admiring tribute to Dr. Feynman not long after Feynman’s death. I am certain Dr. Oliver would profess admiration for and recommend the works of Ron Unz.
Control the language and eventually control the thoughts. Refute their language. Refute antisemite, a ridiculous term, and instrumental in their storytelling. Since 10s of millions of Russian and Ukrainian people died last century, antislav would be a more evidenced term. Post modernism, critical theory and social justice are simply the Bolshevik tactics with terms swapped. Refute progressive – a zog slave world is not progress, it’s regressive. Refute far right, just right so far. Don’t use the term elite. They are not in any fashion elite, just clever and cunning. It’s time to question the victim narrative en masse, they can’t cancel us all.
Dear Mr. Ron.
Thanks again for another sparkle of reason.
I really have to ask two personal questions.
From where do you draw such an incredible
drive ? It almost seems scary. What is your I Q ?
My educated guess is ego and about 900.
I’m learning rapidly, daily as well. Your journey
here, as I follow along, is exponentially enhancing
my walk in this ever evolving quest. The dimensions
appear infinite. Overwhelming for most. Sad sight,
this human condition. Sincerely, THANK YOU.
And please keep it going. Maybe call Tucker or Alex
or Musk and grow this site to the top, where it should be.
Per Ron Unz:
That assertion is false.
Soon, Prof. Leonard R. Jaffee will publish a huge substack article that proves, inter alia, that “Israel” is not a legal state.
In his article “The Myth of the U.N. Creation of Israel,” Jeremy Hammond puts part of the proof that “Israel” is not a state. See https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
But, for sundry reasons, Hammond’s proof is insufficient.
I have read Prof. Jaffee’s proof. It is compelling. When Prof. Jaffee’s article is published, I shall reference it in comments I post under Unz Review articles that address the problem of “Israel” and Palestine.
Mr. Unz’s article is very useful — as have been his several other recent articles concerning the “Israel”/Palestine problem. I appreciate especially the references he cites. But his above-quoted false assertion harms the Palestinian cause.
Another excellent piece by Ron Unz on this very important matter. As ever, it is the often overlooked details which Mr Unz digs up which continue to fascinate me and, no doubt, other readers.
One, of many, grabbed my attention.
Far more typical was their villainous portrayal in Hollywood fare, such as the popular 1977 film Black Sunday, in which American FBI and Israeli Mossad agents together foiled a Palestinian terrorist plot to kill 80,000 Americans by blowing up the Goodyear Blimp over the Superbowl stadium, with our own President being one of the intended victims.
I have never heard of this film, not at the time or later. Even if I missed the screening, I would have seen the repeats on TV, but I never have. You say it was popular, but was it shown outside of America at all ? It sounds like the sort of film that Trevor Lynch should be reviewing, if he were still active at UR. (Assuming there are any copies out there to view )
PS I purposefully did not consult Wikipedia and other websites dealing with the film as I did not want to taint my memory, such as it is. It sounds like one of those films that has been memory holed by the MSM as deeply counterproductive, rather like that old George Arliss movie about the Rothschilds. I could be wrong, of course.
Yes one must wonder why a German Jewish refugee teaching political science in the 50’s would completly ignore a Holocaust if it actually happened.
@Ron Ald M Are they not just afraid of having sanctions put on them or having the US military descend upon them? They cower in fear of J power just like our own leaders.
Wait, this just in…. Bidens order for new munitions for Isrehell was released…OK I just did a little calculation and Gaza has 11,120 acres which is 8400 football fields. An article States that 57000 artillery shells are among this order. each 155 mm shell is 2′ long and has 24 lbs of rdx, has a kill radius of 50 meters or half a football field so with those shells the IDF can carpet bomb those 8400 football fields with 7 shells each asuring the death of every one not in a tunnel. Just the facts folks. So help me understand how are we helping the Gazans?
I do not have any influence. I am just an ordinary academic. The ICC is an instrument of US-West terrorism.
The Nakba and 75 years of violated UN resolutions need to stand alone as a catastrophe.
It is specious to keep mentioning Holocaust and Nakba in the same breath.
While much of Finklestein’s work is good, either deliberately or inadvertently he cements the Holocaust narrative.
In a recent Piers Morgan interview the clip that went viral was “Palestinians have a right to hate” implying that they are full of hate. And yet the prisoner swap, even if it was a dangerous PR exercise for Hamas showed the fighters being anything but hateful. They even took care of the dog, fgs.
In this sense, I sort of suspect his motives and his characterization as being a brave, self sacrificing speaker. By mentioning the Holocaust in EVERY SINGLE TALK on why Palestinians are mistrated, he just cements the idea that Nakba was needed because as we know, Palestinians are not worth as much as European Jews.
Nobody questions that Jewish people were rounded up and put in camps, a crime in and of itself. And under horrible conditions and surely there were individual atrocities committed against prisoners.
Yet for anyone who looks a the distribution of 6 million deaths in every year from 1945 to the present day, one finds that there is a different allocation between camps in every “scholarly” work. The narrative has changed too many times to count. This is a fact of Holocaust questioning.
The plaque at Auschwitz was changed in June 1992 following CIA activiy in Poland. Wales changed the number from 4 million to 1.5 million Jews. Just like that, 2.5 million deaths were disappeared.
Then “denial” criminal legislation began to be developed and passed.
The Arab world, where I currently reside, is broadly aware of most of the facts discussed in this article. It’s also aware of the enormous power of the US empire, and of the obvious domination of that empire by tribally-psychopathic Zionist Jews. So the pushback tends to be subtle, and honest about its slim prospects for success, at least in the short term. The exceptions are in “hot” zones like Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria.
As the hollowed-out US empire collapses, and the liberation of Palestine becomes a tangible short-term goal, I expect that regional leaders will vie for the honor of being the new Salah ad-Din.
AFAIK, this is not correct. UNGA181 (“United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine”) was passed by the UN General Assembly but with only a small majority and after some delay ‘allowing’ frantic lobbying.
Next and major *but*: UNGA181 was not considered by the UNSC so lacks UNSC approval = UNGA181 is thus not law.
A quote from wiki: “Subsequently, a civil war broke out in Palestine,[28] and the plan was not implemented” rgds
Mr. Unz should join Finklestein to discuss this on the MSM…ahh, but there’s the rub.
Also, getting on the MSM would make Unz, Finkelstein, whoever, an even easier target for physical and/or financial harm from the ‘powers that be’.
As always, beware the Power of The Cabal.
The genocide being conducted in Gaza is a planned and deliberate operation that the Israelis let the 10/7/23 Hamas attack take place.
Many hours before the attack the IDF soldiers at the rock concert were killed while they slept to make sure that United States and European citizens were taken captive. by Hamas so that the entire world would do nothing to impede this planned genocide.
Although many human beings find it despicable to kill children; many others do not give a shit how many people are killed if profit is to be made.
This genocide is about the money and ethnic cleansing! The United States and Israeli governments have no qualms or morals in the way of those goals. Our leaders would sell their own mothers for the right price: of that you can be absolutely sure of.
No one is going to start World War III over Israelis killing Muslims and stealing their land. Parts of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon will soon be seized by these war criminals and no one is going to be able to stop it. This is only the beginning!
Thank you, Ron Unz, for the lucidity, fair-mindedness, and thoroughness of your coverage of this issue and of the other matters you have been addressing in the magnificent series of commentaries that constitute American Pravda.
This series of essays has been educational to countless readers, some of whom, like yourself in your naïve days, considered ourselves reasonably knowledgeable about the headline historical developments in recent times as they affected public policy and the common understanding of social phenomena. We may be capable professionals in our own specialist areas, but we have learned massively and beneficially from the thoroughness and insight that you bring to these essential topics of global relevance, and from the further reading that your essays have inspired.
This a just personal tribute and expression of gratitude from a retired Irish lawyer who is happy – and often downright thrilled – to see the obvious good faith, and the concern for justice, candour, and historical accuracy, that animate this historically-important series of essays.
“Insulating”?
——————————————————————————————————
Perhaps readers of this article on ethnic cleansing would have some interest in a related topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoethnicity
That Wikipedia article has some disputable points, e.g., Italy’s major ethnic group is listed as “Italians”, but everyone knows that Southern Italians are different in culture and physical appearance from Northern Italians. But overall I found it useful as a reference.
I.e., “rape-washing” the killing of children, ethnic cleansing, and, potentially, genocide.
Who by merest coincidence is Jewish. This is akin to a Biden debate or interview.
My forecast for the Palestinian death toll in Gaza was 100K at the beginning, you cannot drop 1000lb bombs in urban areas and not kill masses.
{ It only takes one country, and the ICJ would be forced to act.}
Forced to act and do what?
You can declare something a ‘Genocide’, and then what?
If powerful countries don’t use brute military force to stop it, nothing will happen.
US — a big, powerful country — is backing Israel 100%.
The only country that can militarily stop it is Russia, and Russia is not going to start a global nuclear war with US/NATO for Palestine. And the Islamic counties that can potentially, militarily stop it are not going to risk nuclear annihilation by US/NATO to stop it. Sorry, that is the sad truth.
But why even go there?
Arab sheikdoms can stop or restrict oil production, and the Israel war machine would grind to a halt.
Turks can stop the oil flow from Azerbaijan to Israel and the Israel war machine would grind to a halt.
But none of them will do anything other than bloviate.
While the defenseless Palestinians are being carpet bombed by American-made jets and American-made bombs.
Where is God?
btw: the Craig Murray link ‘stopping genocide’ is itself bogus.
The GloboSorosaWest falsely accused Serbs of committing genocide, and the attack dog NATO was illegally unleashed on Serbs to carpet-bomb them into submission and take Kosovo from them. Kosovo became an Islamic heaven for drug trafficking, sex trafficking, organ trafficking,…..So much for ICJ.
ICJ is a tool of the GloboSorosaWest.
It is neither “International”, nor “Just”.
They’ve been carefully pitted against each other. Their army organisations designed to oppress their own folk.
Edited your comment for clarity.
“And after destroying the economic structure of the South, Northern Jewish Bankers have continued to oppress White Deplorables and prefer the black race in a vain attempt to bring blacks up to a level of equality with White Deplorables.”
You’re welcome!
What we practice we obtain in fact.
Apropos of something in particular
Yeah, the Pittsburgh Steelers were a team featured in the film.
Personal awareness or unawareness doesn’t necessarily correlate with popularity
You will be arrested and put on trial, then some of you will be executed like a rotten rat, should a opportunity arise, zionist mass murderers. You will receive what you deserve, for your crimes against not only Palestinians but the world population idiot, don’t worry baby killer, genocidal and thieves.
Collapse of empire does not mean the US will stop supporting Israel, or will stop being at the very top of military technology. And by the time the US military and financial supremacy deeply erodes, which may take a decade or two, there will be no more Palestinians left in so-called Israel.
Arabs will not dare attack a technologically advanced nuclear power like Israel fully backed by the USA with legions of Evangelical fanatics willing to fight for Israel. Besides no Arab country has made any strides towards military self-sufficiency and you can bet their US supplied arms will not work if used against Israel.
Only a land and sea embargo can cripple Israel and force its people to leave. And that will require a mighty navy willing to confront US navy in the east Mediterranean. Not likely.
Or constant low-level attacks against Israeli civilians, by thousands of cuts, leading to emigration of Jews from Israel. But who will do that?
What are you are talking about is at least 50 years to a century in the future, a future that is so far away that it is not predictable.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Always follow the money to find the truth!
Qatar, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Israel by Thierry Meyssan!
https://www.voltairenet.org/article220118.html
The inconsistencies of October 7 (II)
Contrary to the way Qatar is portrayed, the emirate is not a neutral negotiator in the case of the Al-Aqsa Flood hostages. A blunder by its minister, Lolwah Al-Khater, who came to follow the negotiations in Tel Aviv, shows, on the contrary, that Doha exercises authority over Hamas. The new members of Israels war cabinet were surprised to discover that Qatar had taken part in Benjamin Netanyahus plot to attack Israel on October 7, 2023.
This article follows “What lies behind Benjamin Netanyahus lies and Hamass dodges”, by Thierry Meyssan, November 28, 2023.
Lolwah Al-Khaters blunder
Lolwah Al-Khater, Qatari Minister for International Cooperation, visited Tel Aviv on November 25, 2023. It was the first time a Qatari official had visited Israel. She was received by the War Cabinet to resolve problems with the implementation of the hostage exchange agreement. She also visited Gaza.
Accustomed to discussions with Mossad director David Barnea, she didn’t seem to grasp that the war cabinet included not only loyalists of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. In order to gain time, she made decisions in the name of Hamas, without referring to it.
Members of the former opposition who joined the emergency cabinet and witnessed this discussion were shocked to see her step out of her role as mediator and reveal her links of authority over Hamas, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.
After the meeting, Joshua Zarka, Deputy Director General for Strategic Affairs at the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, declared that Israel would “settle accounts with Qatar” as soon as it had completed its role as mediator. Indeed, if Qatar can give orders to Hamas, it can no longer conceal its responsibility for the October 7 attack. Not only is it not a mediator, it is an enemy of the Israelis.
As soon as it was created, the Brotherhood set up militias to assassinate its opponents. It developed first in Egypt, then throughout the Arab world and in Pakistan. The United Kingdom and the United States were quick to use its politicians (such as Brother Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq in Pakistan or Brother Mahmoud Jibril in Libya) and its militias, such as al-Qaeda, Daesh and the League for the Protection of the Tunisian Revolution. As soon as he arrived at the White House, President Barack Obama appointed a member of the Brotherhood, Mehdi K. Alhassani, to his National Security Council, in order to establish a permanent link with it [5].
In 2018, Qatar is paying the salaries of Hamas officials in Gaza. With the agreement of Benjamin Netanyahu, its ambassador travels there with suitcases full of $15 million in small bills. The operation will be repeated every month.
In 2022, United States President Joe Biden elevated Qatar to the rank of Major Non-NATO Ally, an honor reserved for only a dozen countries worldwide.
Lolwah Al-Khaters blunder shows that Qatar is more than that. It exercises authority over Hamass political and military strategy.
Thierry Meyssan
Yet another brilliant essay (and podcast) by Mr Ron Unz. Many Thanks!
Glad you’ve formally acknowledged what many have repeatedly pointed out here on your webzine.
The word “other” is your best clue that Bazelon is, indeed, Jewish.
‘The Horror! the Horror!’, Revisited in Palestine
The jungle is here – creeping inside all of us.
PEPE ESCOBAR • NOVEMBER 28, 2023
https://fr.news.yahoo.com/video/zelensky-lights-menorah-first-night-093805433.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/argentinas-milei-cites-hanukkah-story-at-inauguration-gifts-menorah-to-zelensky/
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-777167
None of the players in the old mix of things in the middle east has any idea of what and how Xi and the Chinese are thinking or planning. No one knows if the Chinese can stop these players from stabbing each other in the back at every opportunity or not.
Getting the Saudis and Iranians to the same table was a major accomplishment; moving forward in a win-win direction with these cut-throats is another thing altogether!
So why was this honest assessment about its slim prospects for success not performed by Hamas for the attack on 10/7? Even if not all accounts of the events of that day are accurate, it’s fairly certain that some of them are — I don’t think anyone is claiming that nothing happened. Hamas should have known the retaliation would be swift and severe.
And to what purpose do the tunnels serve? Why don’t the Gazans and Hamas use the foreign aid given them to improve conditions at ground level, rather than using it to pour more concrete and expand their underground castle?
Well, I haven’t really paid much attention to controversy other than what I’ve read in the newspapers.
But as I’d emphasized in my previous article, “antisemitism” is basically a hoax and probably always has been, so firing university presidents for being insufficiently sensitive to that horrific problem is just the sort of nonsense we’d expect in today’s bizarre America:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-gaza-and-the-anti-semitism-hoax/
The Jewish Murder Machine extends beyond the borders of Gaza and IsraHell all the way to the shores of you and me. The war against the Palestinian children is waged by every single hack on Capitol Hill, the senile pervert in the White House, and his entire staff of kikes in every possible rank, file, and office. The war against the Palestinian children is waged by every single evangelical who worships Jews more than he worships Jesus.
The war against the Palestinian children is waged by the Yids who own the media, run academia, own JewTube and Google, and finance the war machine via the FED and its entire consortium of Jew-run Central Banks and Equity Firms throughout the Western World.
The Israeli War Machine
https://rumble.com/v40l9n6-the-israeli-war-machine-brother-nathaniel.html
https://nobinger.com/joomla/index.php/911-terrorists-attacks/911-proof-of-who-did-it
In this video, a Jewish student is waving an Israeli flag on the campus of a community college in Livermore, California, and when a Muslim student confronts her, angrily denouncing Israel as a racist Nazi genocidal regime, the latter is punished with expulsion while the former provocateur is portrayed as the victim.
If we are going to discuss “Inversions of Reality”, we have to back a few centuries to where all this started, back to the 1666, back to Sabbatai Zevi
Zevi was the Ur-Zionist.
Jacob Frank was a disciple of Zevi, and even claimed to be his “reincarnation”. Frank was also the founder of the illiminati, along with the Mayer Amschel Rothschild, Adam Weishhaupt.
The Balfour Declaration where England “gave” Palestine to the Jews was addressed to “Lord Rothschild”.
Sabbatai Levi ==> Jacob Frank ==> Mayer Rothschild ==> Walter Riothschild ==> Bibi Netanyahu. This is no small coincidence.
As Russ Winter explains:
The true nature of these Sabbateans is far more sinister than just their eagerness to commit “genocide” or the projection of their own sins on innocent people. The are deeply committed to every aspect of Wokism including pedophilia, homosexuality, transgenderism and even human sacrifice. Hence all the assassinations by Jews. Hence the willingness to implement the Hannibal Doctrine. Hence the willingness to provoke “Pogroms” and even the fake Holocaust.
There isn’t anything to wonder about. The South only began to celebrate the victimhood of the Confederacy long after the American Civil War. Does that mean that Sherman’s march through Georgia was invented a quarter-century or so after the American Civil War? Of course not.
Most people in 1945 were very wary of a return to the Great Depression. It may seem ludicrous today, when we can see how the US economy got a great boost from worldwide demand after 1945. But at the time it seemed plausible that the end of World War II would just mean a renewed economic collapse. The Depression in the 1930s had done a lot to animate interest in books which were highly critical of “the war to make the world safe for democracy.” Although World War II eventually acquired the status of The Good War, it wasn’t obvious in 1945 that that would happen. If a sudden economic crash had occurred in 1947 similar to 1929, then the whole war would probably have been remembered differently.
Under those circumstances, it made perfectly good sense for Jews to play down anything special about Jews and World War II for the first quarter-century. By 1970, the economic boom was coming to an end. But the previous 25 years of prosperity had done a lot to enshrine the memory of World War II so that it was now easier for Jews to publicly acknowledge the special role which they had played in Hitler’s ideology.
Excellent survey with a fine bibliography.
The Nakba has been a continuous process.
Here are photos and a film from the destruction of villages in the Latrun Salient which the Israelis captured in the 1967 War. The Palestinian inhabitants were expelled, mostly across the River into Jordan. Much of the area, including the site of the town of Imwas/Emmaus, was turned into a park with financial assistance from Canadian Jews.
Ron, I believe it was a comment by me here on unz.com some years ago that referred you to the Russo book and to Bazelon’s role in the massive theft of property owned by Japanese-Americans. I am pleased to have contributed in some small way to your essays in forensic history. This latest entry in the “American Prada” series is superb.
‘“Antisemitism” is basically a hoax and probably always has been.’ — Ron Unz
You can’t say that … in the dogmatic mainstream media, at least.
For instance, this morning’s New York Slimes serves up a provocative headline based on inverted values:
Is Anti-Zionism Always Antisemitic? A Fraught Question for the Moment.
Whereas the only sensible question is: Is anti-Zionism ever antisemitic?
And some follow-on queries: Is anti-Zionism as much a moral obligation as anti-colonialism? Is anti-Zionism in fact synonymous with anti-philistinism?
Middlebrow Slimes readers cry out for expert guidance on these tricky conundrums.
> Wales changed the number from 4 million to 1.5 million Jews.
The Soviet plaque never said anything about “4 million … Jews.” It claimed four million victims, but gave no hint of Jews. If you want to know what academic works said, you might look at Gerald Reitlinger’s book from 1953:
—–
The world has grown mistrustful of ‘rectified coefficients’ and the figure of four million has become ridiculous. Unfortunately Russian arithmetic has blurred the stark and inescapable fact that little less than a million human beings perished in Auschwitz, its gas chambers and its camps.
—–
— Reitlinger, The Final Solution, p. 460.
Reitlinger’s belief that “little less than a million human beings perished in Auschwitz” could easily be an inflated overestimate. But the point is that such was the claim made in 1953, long before the Soviet plaque in Poland was changed.
Ron, …. what do you think we western goys in places like Canada should do? I am personally isolated now, in terms of IRL interactions with the baby boomer cohort that I came up with, …. I think bringing up the JQ in terms of the holocaust topic is very very very bad for one’s social situation. I really can’t tell you how deeply that hurts. It feels like those that I tend to view as colleagues (other baby boomers) have discounted me now, as crazy and emotionally ill, and so avoid me now (but without even owning up, that that is what has happened). I thought I had invested quite a bit in those relationships over my entire life, …. poof, … all gone, it seems (I don’t think I am imagining this, ….. this has been a long time coming and has happened in stages). And I only brought the JQ topic up with 3 or 4 people in my circle, …. but then did bring it up in an overwhelming, big way with these 3 or 4 that I thought might have what it takes to so-appreciate, …. as encouraged by your well-reasoned-type takes for instance, which I had already learned about before purviewing the UR, …. all long long before these most recent October 7th issues, and I think what has happened is that word has got out, and people have talked behind my back.
Another thing that I have noticed is that Baby Boomer Canadian Slavs that I have known nearly all my life don’t tend to judge me so harshly for JQ speculations (more willing to take it as a matter of opinion), yet these same said Slavs will go ballistic if I say anything about the ethno-fascist element informing the Kiev regime in Ukraine.
All this hurts because I already sorted out ‘crazy’ from ‘not crazy’, during some psychological/spiritual tribulations I experienced for a couple of months when I was 12. I can’t go back to consideration of ‘the crazy’ …. I am quite sure that would spell the end of me. Ron, … what I am saying is that the JQ issue seems to be upheld by the very ‘crazy’ circumstance, I struggled with at age 12 for some bizarre reason (probably testosterone-mediated) …. it is very deep, very disturbing, life-taking narcissism that overcame me for two months at the age of 12, …. and if taken to the limit, renders the practitioner (or is better said as ‘sufferer’?, … which is the way I experienced it at age 12 for a couple of insane months before I was able to reason my way out of that mess) as just about the sorriest being on the planet (imbued with the gnawing belief that there is no reality outside of my own narrow subjective reality, …. which renders said believer, as unbelievably, soul-crushingly lonely and isolated).
Look, …. I have known a rabid narcissistic or two, in my life. (isn’t that going to be the norm for any reasonably social person, by the age of 64?). In the end (after experimenting around this), one will find that the best strategy is simply to avoid these narcissistic people. And that is the way I am being treated now, by my colleagues, in the main. It is just so convoluted and gut-wrenching that I have had to wonder whether my Baby Boomer colleagues are actually sort of like narcissists in disguise, or something, which scares the shit out of me (as if there really is something to this ultra-derealization that I experienced for a couple of months, crazy-like, at age 12).
People should be for people, in the main. The ethno-shit should be secondary to the prime principle: … it must be: Humans first. That was the way I was raised. I then found out that the reason I was raised that way, is because said sentiment in fact is ‘true-west’.
I really don’t know what to do now. I am lost (and isolated IRL, to boot), …. but I do make sure I do have social outlets for myself nevertheless, … everyone needs this, …. but I cannot do more than make small talk within these social outlets, …. like choir let’s say, ….. that is, if I don’t want these outlets taken away from me too (almost already happened at choir over vaxxo-rama-drama, … if I would have fully responded in turn to the coercion offered, instead of always deigning to stay ‘rational’ in these social exchanges, I would been a goner from the choir now, instead of somebody now, I guess, that is just tolerated but otherwise relegated to just bite his lip, now, outside of actual singing).
I don’t know what to do, except to wait and see if my Baby Boomer colleagues will have a change of heart. My impression is, … that if the have a change of heart around the events of October 7th, it will not be because they themselves have changed. And so if there is a change of heart around the events of October 7th, it will be done in way to uphold their own goyish narcissism. That is what it looks like to me. Sad. If you got some advise for me, … I’m all ears.
The King David Hotel was the HQ of British Mandate Palestine. Zionists dressed as Arabs placed explosives on the main support pillars of the building which collapsed killing 91 people.
It’s interesting that Netanyahu attended a celebration (July 2006) “to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel” (organized by Menachem Begin Heritage House).
That’s the same Netanyahu who went on to describe the mysterious 9/11 WTC terror bombings as “Very good for us”. So maybe he’s even looking forward to his very own anniversary celebration.
As usual, Ron does the research work few of us have time for. Very good addition to the Pravda series. And i have 2 new books to read. Not to mention links to other work.
Thanks!
I believe you are wrong. Your assessment only takes into account a finite, rather small number of determinants (excludes the rapidly rising influence and power of Russia-China), and has no trend extrapolation based on the delta of causative factors presently.
Examples: regime change in USA. UN wholesale condemnation and new widespread sanctions on Israel. If Azerbaijan cuts off oil supply to Israel, it is dead in the water. If the USA cuts off munitions supply, e.g., tank and artillery shells, Israel is DOA.
I don’t think that you understand the broader reality of the people living in Gaza. It is obvious by your open-ended questions (“please explain to me, someone, willya?”) that your knowledge base in narrow and shallow.
What collapse? When is this collapse scheduled to take place? What exactly are the details of this collapse?
Suppose that the USA has a big famine during the years 2025 through 2028. The USA’s population of unjewish Europeans falls to the amount of 1900, when the total estimated population was 96.2 million. Urban unjewish Europeans get wiped out, as do their ilk in the suburbs.
Further suppose also that the USA’s populations of d-Indians and east Asians fall very litle during the famine. The Mexicans and meztizos suffer, but not quite so badly as European degenerates.
Now, why would it be reasonable to expect the USA’s empire to collapse under these conditions? or to collapse and not be restored by pious enthusiasts? Would not there be a draft during the famine to protect the ruling class from riots and starvation? Would not the combat platoons of the U.S. Army be refilled and swollen with the usual robotic, obedient, imperialist, European goons?
Don’t give me that old song and dance about the manufacturing base. There remains lots of that in the USA, and there are plenty of east Asian and d-Indian engineers moving through the USA’s engineering schools already. You’ll need a better reason to believe in your collapse.
Saudi Arabian founder Abdulaziz bin Abdul Rahman Al Saud employed as a high advisor, Harry St John Philby, father of Third Man, Kim Philby.
It is alleged that Ibn Saud actually favored Jewish immigration into Palestine.
Isn’t it about time someone produce evidence of the 10,000 ovens necessary to fry up 6 million yids extra crispy? And evidence of the 30,000 Oven Waffen necessary to operate, replace, repair those 10,000 ovens 24/7 for a couple of years? And evidence as to which industrial enterprise built those 10,000 ovens? Or is the whole thing just another self-serving yid fraud from the filthy demonic fucks who rule over us peasants who actually work for a living?
Deliberately targeting non-combatant and non-military facilities and people IS a war crime, you stupid, solipsistic moron and putrid swine turd.
The deliberate targeting and bombarding and shelling of civilians in the Donbas for 7 years to the present is a war crime, i.e., collective murder. Karma payback for Israelis and many Jews will be in kind. Perhaps you will find yourself under tons of rubble one day, the life crushed out of you, and perhaps your loved ones-babies and other innocents as well. Then, you can can wipe your ass after you shit yourself with the pages of the Talmud.
Filthy dreck.
> it was fully deserved what happened to them.
That’s probably going a bit too far, since things like this almost always end up claiming innocent victims along the way. But it is noteworthy the way that this piece uncritically reproduces the most inflated claims about German expellee deaths (“according to all estimates, two to three million German civilians had perished”). In reality, about 500,000 excess deaths may have occurred from the evacuations. Most of these deaths occurred under Third Reich authority, as a large number of the evacuations were carried out before Soviet troops had reached a region. There were further expulsions which went on after the war, but a lot of the most dramatic cases of large-scale movements by German populations to the west happened while the Third Reich still held authority. It’s been estimated that between 15-30 thousand German Czechs may have died in expulsions; probably 15 thousand German Poles died in internment camps between 1945 and 1949; more than 53,000 dying in Yugoslavia; and more than 17,000 in Denmark. But the claims of 2-3 million are just propaganda, almost as bad as the “20 million” hoax peddled about the Soviet Union.
Then Unz links to two jews, one being the KNOWN liar, Elie Wiesel.
Puhleeze, Ron.
You make very valid points but I hope to present you with other things to think about.
Bibi and Biden both knew the 10-7-23 Hamas attack was coming.
In Israel Bibi’s ” partners” have to deal with the knowledge that Bibi knew what was coming and aided and abetted it. The ” Muslim Brotherhood ” itself is funded by our C.I.A. and the Mossad and that means that they control what Hamas does 24/7.
Both Bibi and Biden are treading on very thin ice and each faces dissent in many unpleasant directions.
The Pandora’s box this whole thing has opened up has only begun to show its side effects. How are the IDF with Bibi killing their troops? What happens when powerful Jews in the United States learn the Muslim Brotherhood is funded and run from the White House?
This shit-storm has just begun!
Implosion can be caused by many things other than military defeat.
Pertaining to your comment about the Jews paying for what they did in the Soviet Union and my questions to a few educated old Soviets, is that they weren’t told about Trosky and his N Y connections at all. In other words – with all of the puzzled looks on the people I’ve asked – including my Odecca Univ. educated wife – they weren’t taught exactly the truth and it was just a Civil War. So I told her that it’s looking like the same people who published your text books , were the same that published our text books. – and I think I’m pretty close in my observation . Sabe’ ? Понимаю
I’d love to hear from anyone else that has questioned other old Soviets about this. I know that President Putin has acknowledged the Jewish influence during the Bolshevik Revolution, but how many people put 2 + 2 together.?
Emily Bazelon (the moderator of the first NYT article mentioned above). WHERE have we heard THAT name before?
Answer: her rapacious grandfather, David L. Bazelon – Jewish, like Emily.
He was chief justice of the District of Columbia Court of Appeals in the mid-1940s, from which vantage point he administered the Office of Foreign Assets, through which he dispossessed thousands of innocent Americans of Japanese, German, and Italian descent of their life’s savings, and distributed them to his (mostly Jewish) friends and family. His victims even included Nikola Tesla, even though the former Serbian was a naturalized American citizen by the time of his death.
Yes, THAT Bazelon. You’ll find no hint of this in his Wikipedia article. You’ll have to look harder, as I have.
Sure, Black Sunday was never an ultra-popular film or a film classic, but I think it was reasonably popular, and although I never saw it in the theater, I think I watched it on TV two or three times over the years. There were quite a number of other Palestinian terrorism movies during roughly that same period, many of them in the “made for TV” category, including one on the Munich Olympics attack and Raid on Entebbe. But I think Black Sunday had the biggest budget and it was the one that came to my mind.
No, it’s not. Holocaustists don’t allege that 6m corpses of Jewish supremacists were burned in ovens. They say that some of the 6m innocent victims were shot, then buried in pits.
Go back to work. Your grousing is hurting GDP and tax receipts.
Sure, I never meant to suggest that America had always been a Mestizo nation, with most white Americans having substantial Amerindian ancestry. Due to simple statistics, I’d guess that most Old Stock Americans have some Amerindian ancestry, but it’s probably less than 0.5%, maybe even 0.1%.
In 1948, Jews were about 1/3 of the population of Palestine and most of them had arrived in the previous three years, which is why their mostly successful effort to seize control of the whole country and drive out the natives was so extraordinary.
Suppose the situation had been analogous to America, with the Jews being 99% of the population and having arrived 150 years earlier. Under such circumstances, nobody would have been very surprised if they’d seized the whole country and just absorbed that sliver of natives, while driving out the ones who violently resisted.
> Trosky and his N Y connections
Trotsky spent 2 months in New York delivering speeches against US entry into World War I. That hardly qualifies as a big New York connection.
> it was just a Civil War.
The Right-wing White forces lost the Russian Civil War because they had absolutely no support from the Russian populace. Nobody in New York did anything to determine this outcome.
> President Putin has acknowledged
Putin repeated a lie which originated from Robert Wilton. Wilton routinely made up fake lists of names for the White propaganda. One such fake list involved a claim that the Council of People’s Commissars had 22 members, with 17 of them Jewish. This was where Putin got his phony “80-85%” claim from. But it was a fake list. Here is the actual list of the Council’s membership:
https://alphahistory.com/russianrevolution/decree-forming-soviet-government-1917/
The Twitter post below has excerpts from a book, The Road to Mecca, by a Jew who later converted to Islam. He arrived in Palestine 1n 1922. Early Zionist leaders were secular psychopaths.
https://archive.org/stream/the-road-to-makkah-by-muhammad-asad/The%20ROAD%20TO%20MAKKAH%2C%20BY%2C%20Muhammad%20Asad_djvu.txt
Unz has done it again. To say that his research is thorough would be to greatly understate the breath, depth, pertinence and utility of his research.
I can’t say with certainty whether he’s actually read the books he claimed to have read cover to cover, but his masterful summaries of each of the germane academic and popular works as well as his placement of the them into their proper context (in terms of their accuracy, historical impact, and relation to other works) is simply astonishing.
While Unz borders on the conspiratorial at times, I find he carefully documents which points are sourced and which are of a conjectural nature, leaving it for the reader to decide the truth, as any good academic should.
He simply wipes the floor clean, standing head and shoulders above all other academic writer in the fields of political and historical analysis, in terms of
1. the great depths to which Unz penetrates, the controversial nature of the subjects he chooses to write about,
2. the brilliant weeding out of bullshit sources and inclusion of important, relevant sources,
3. his easy-to-understand and non pretense-laden prose
4. His helpful analogies and contextualizo actions which make framing the relative importance of certain historical events, political figures, the influence of varying historical personalities and works simple
4. His willingness to take bold and controversial stances.
With the possible exception of Chomsky as a historical/political analyst of US imperial history and Norman Finkelstein as a specialist in Middle East/Holocaust studies, I dont know if academic writer who come even close to Ron in the depth, breadth, incisiveness, and relevance of their scholarship. (But I’m open to recommendations!)
That being said, Ron is not perfect, and he makes the occasional mistake. However, the mistakes – when they do happen – tend to be in the right direction, meaning a misstatement of fact or incorrect assertion tend to represents a true concept even if the fact or assertion itself were untrue in technical grounds..
An instance if that in this article is when Ron mentions the following:
Ron is correct that the Wikipedia article on Ethnic cleansing indeed fail to list the Nakba or the German forced relocation as examples of ethnic cleansing. However, the page does redirect the reader to a second page titled “List of Ethnic Cleansing Campaigns” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_cleansing_campaigns) which contains a list of ethnic cleansing campaigns, and includes the Nakba as well as the forced relocation of the Germans.
However, the way the page is organized and the fact that the main Wikipedia article on ethnic Cleansing redirects one to a separate page outlining specific examples without providing some meaningful outline or summary seems to me to be a clever way to hide these two unseemly instances of ethnic cleansing.
First, To click through to a second page in order to view a complete list of ethnic cleansing necessarily means fewer people will see that list, causing many (Unz included) to miss it.
Second, the way the list is organized by historical epoch/century, rather than by magnitude of victims, obfuscates the true impact (and possibly the existence of) the Nakba and the German ethnic cleansing for the casual researcher. These ethnocides, which impacted roughly ~900k and ~13 million people, respectively, are buried within tedious lists of ethnic cleansings which claimed only hundreds or thousands of victims.
To make the list potentially more useful, a brave wiki editor should try to reorganize this list according to magnitude of the number of people ethnically cleansed, which is how the pages for largest mass casualties have been organized.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll)
Ron’s failure to notice this second list wasn’t a mistake per se, it was more like an oversight. But the message still stands, Wikipedia editors are obscuring or hiding these two massive ethnocides via obscure page formats and redirects, rather than highlighting these as clear, paradigmatic examples of ethnic cleansing.
In Short, Ron Unz lives up there with Chomsky in my book as a prolific, penetrating, fearless scholar whose brilliance and unwavering dedication to public scholarship makes the world a more enlightened place. All this without the comfort, resources and income stream of a tenured Ivy League professorship.
**Edit – A high ranking honorable mention in the annals of brilliant and under appreciated public scholars is Steve Sailer. However, I find that his short form writing fails to truly dig deep into issues as long form writing like Unz’s can.)
@Unz – pls add Jeremy Hammond to this website
It’s your word against Viezel’s.
Honors and Awards:
• Prix de l’Université de la Langue Française (Prix Rivarol) for The Town Beyond the Wall, 1963.
• National Jewish Book Award for The Town Beyond the Wall, 1965.
• Ingram Merrill award, 1964.
• Prix Médicis for A Beggar in Jerusalem, 1968.
• National Jewish Book Award for Souls on Fire: Portraits and Legends of Hasidic Masters, 1973.
• Jewish Heritage Award, Haifa University, 1975.
• Holocaust Memorial Award, New York Society of Clinical Psychologists, 1975.
• S.Y. Agnon Medal, 1980.
• Jabotinsky Medal, State of Israel, 1980.
• Prix Livre Inter, France, for The Testament, 1980.
• Grand Prize in Literature from the City of Paris for The Fifth Son, 1983.
• Commander in the French Legion of Honor, 1984
• U.S. Congressional Gold Medal, 1984.
• Four Freedoms Award for the Freedom of Worship, 1985.
• Medal of Liberty, 1986.
• Nobel Peace Prize, 1986.
• Grand Officer in the French Legion of Honor, 1990.
• Presidential Medal of Freedom, 1992
• Niebuhr Medal, Elmhurst College, Illinois, 1995.
• Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement, 1996, presented by Awards Council member Rosa Parks at the Academy’s 35th annual Summit in Sun Valley, Idaho.
• Grand Cross in the French Legion of Honor, 2000.
• Order of the Star of Romania, 2002.
• Man of the Year award, Tel Aviv Museum of Art, 2005.
• Light of Truth award, International Campaign for Tibet, 2005.
• Honorary Knighthood, United Kingdom, 2006.
• Honorary Visiting Professor of Humanities, Rochester College, 2008.
• National Humanities Medal, 2009.
• Norman Mailer Prize, Lifetime Achievement, 2011.
Loebenberg Humanitarian Award, Florida Holocaust Museum, 2012.
• Kenyon Review Award for Literary Achievement, 2012
• Nadav Award, 2012.
• S. Roger Horchow Award for Greatest Public Service by a Private Citizen, an award given out annually by Jefferson Awards, 2013.
• John Jay Medal for Justice John Jay College, 2014.
• Bust of Wiesel was carved on the Human Rights Porch of the Washington National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., 2021.
ANYONE who can get under Alan Dershowitz’s skin and make him squirm is OK in my book!
10/7/23 was a case of those to whom evil had been done doing evil in return. I, a classic Irish Catholic, have witnessed grossly Ant-Semitic attitudes such as Islamic water purification plant technicians accusing a blind Jewish vending machine attendant of going to restaurants and lifting rolls of bread from the breadbaskets in the restaurants to sell in his vending machines.
“The early Zionist leaders were mostly Central European Jews, ”
A common misconception.
The roots of modern Zionism are to be found in 1840s England, among a group of mystically leaning Protestants. This thread continued in a pretty straight line down to Balfour and Lloyd George.
See https://yplus.ps/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Scholch-Alexander-Palestine-in-Transformation-1856-1882.pdf
See also: https://balfourproject.org/a-timeline/
“19th Century
“Literal reading of the Bible taking off and developing into Shaftesbury’s political campaign to get Jews to Palestine to speed a second coming of the Messiah. Creation of the Palestine Exploration Fund, ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Jews in the Pale of Settlement (mainly occupied Poland and Lithuania). Then the role of William Hechler the evangelical chaplain of the English Embassy who was sponsored by Shaftesbury. He played a significant part in the development of Zionism. The Dreyfus affair [[Herzl]] and the first Zionist conference [[Herzl]].”
At the same time the idea of planting a Jewish colony in Palestine was definitely one element in the ongoing struggle between the British and the Russian Empires in the Great Game, the struggle for control of Central Asia. One locus of this struggle was SW Asia (then called the Near East or the Middle East).
See this: ” https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/attachments/jps-articles/2537686.pdf
. . . .BRITAIN IN PALESTINE, 1838-1882 41 . . . The most important event in Palestine in this connection was the estab- lishment of a British consulate in Jerusalem in 1838. Because the Ottomans had to continue with Muhammad ‘Ali’s policy even after the Egyptians were expelled in 1840, Jerusalem witnessed the entrance of still other European consuls2 and religious dignitaries. As a result, the European public’s interest in the “Holy Land” markedly increased. Thus, Palestine fell into that whirl- pool of opposing European interests: the Great Powers’ “Eastern question” of the nineteenth century. Once the “Holy Land” had come into view, inor- dinate desires were awakened, plans were devised, and visions were given free reign. None of these, however, was politically feasible, despite the fact that the sultan would not have been able to drive the Egyptians out of Syria and Palestine without European (primarily British and Austrian) help. Given that European intervention was undertaken for the sake of main- taining the integrity of the Ottoman Empire (Britain’s Middle Eastern policy in particular held the conservation of the empire’s core as an urgent goal), there could be no question of partitioning Ottoman territories. The prob- lem-the nineteenth century’s “Eastern question”-was how much of the Ottoman Empire had to be preserved, and in what form, in order to protect the interests of the European powers. Since European penetration could not take the form of territorial control, then, it could only be a matter of influ- ence. One of the most important vehicles through which the European pow- ers tried to exercise their influence was the “protection” of non-Muslim minorities in the Ottoman Empire.
The Establishment of the English Presence and European Cultural-Religious Penetration In England’s view, Russia and France had taken the lead in the race to gain influence by means of “protecting” minorities. The former was the traditional “protecting power” of the Orthodox Christians, while the latter held the same position for Catholic Christians, both in Palestine and in the Middle East generally. It was high time that this lead was narrowed. But as heads of Europe’s Protestant powers, England and Prussia first had to find (or, more exactly, create) their own proteges: Jews and Protestants. They recognized that, just to set foot in Palestine and exercise any right to be in- volved, they would to some extent have to contest the “natural” strong points of Russia and France. This resulted in the appointment of a British consul for Jerusalem in 1838. At the outset, he was supposed to form a counter- weight to the feared expansion of Russian influence.3 Thus the first step in a systematic European penetration of Palestine was made in the context of Eu- ropean rivalries concerning the “Eastern question.” This rivalry continued to be the most important factor in the period under consideration. . . .”. . .
Palestine was conveniently located near the Suez Canal, which was central to Britain’s communication route to its most valuable colony, India.
Herzl came along and provided an important missing piece. However, he did not invent the idea of Zionism, nor did he seem to understand the geopolitical potential that was soon spotted by a group of British imperialists (Milner Group, which included Balfour), who wanted a war with Germany and lusted after lands and control in the ME, then controlled by the Ottoman Empire. They became the go-to group for Herzl, and Chaim Weizmann, who provide(d) reasonably presentable heroes of Zionism both then and now.
Not at all heroic and also generally left out of the “mainstream alternative” narrative about the development of Zionism is the growth of political Zionism in the Slavic world, led by Victor Jabotinsky. These cadres—David Gruen (Ben Gurion), Rabin, Josef Trumpeldor, and other violent and fanatical Zionists, instead of staying in Russia to help develop that country after the Revolution, or even going to Europe to fight the Nazis as guerrillas, descended on Palestine to harass and murder the local farmers and Bedouins, and seize their land, their wells, their orchards, etc., illegally import weapons (including from the US Kosher Nostra), and terrorize the by now hapless British trying to manage their illegal, concocted-in-secret “Mandate.” They soon tossed Herzl and Weizmann under the Zionist bus and took charge of leading the self-declared Israeli State into what became a war of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine: The Nakba.
This was the group that made deals with Hitler so that the latter in effect helped the Zionists populate Palestine, where very few European jews wanted to go.
Binjamin Netanyahu’s father was Jabotinsky’s right-hand man. BTW Netanyahu is another one of these made-up names.
Killing human beings has always been very profitable.
War! What Is It Good for? by Declan Hayes
https://strategic-culture.su/news/2023/12/11/war-what-is-it-good-for/
Though Edwin Starrs version of WAR! was a Vietnam War era blockbuster hit, it was much stronger on the musical than on either the economic or factual fronts.
According to its lyrics, war is good for “absolutely nothing” because “it means destruction of innocent lives”, “tears to thousands of mothers eyes when their sons go off to fight and lose their lives”. War, according to Starr, is an “enemy to all mankind”.
If all that was the case, then war would have ended with The Great War, “the war to end all words”, as its pimps marketed it, or at some other important historical juncture.
Because wars just as terrible as Vietnam and that cynically marketed war to end all wars are still with us and will remain with us for many years to come, there are clearly many important policy makers, like Dick Cheney, and enforcers, like Smedley Butler or United States Defense Secretary (ex Raytheon and future POTUS) Lloyd Austin who benefit from NATOs endless wars.
And though Israel has taken relatively severe casualties in Gaza, that project, as far as I can see, is fully on track. I expect Israel and their United States of American partners in crime to level it with bunker bombs and to send its survivors off into the wilds.
And then it will be the turn of Lebanon, Syria and Yemen before zooming in on Iran, the next beefy carcass these vultures hope to leech off.
And sure, there will be tonnes of casualties along the way but Israeli or United States of American expendables do not matter, except to make homely youtube homecoming videos to cynically pull at the heart strings, as Citizen Kane might today do had he a youtube channel.
The main thing, the thing war is really good for, is enriching and further empowering those in Black Rock, Haliburton, Monsanto, Big Pharma and Defence, who are the real and only voices Dick Cheney, Liz Truss, Tony Blair, Benjamin Netanyahu, George Bush and that von der Leyen idiot hear when they lie that God is telling them to cause the carnage Starrs song laments!
Instances of (at least purported) good speech by A in response to (at least purported) bad speech by B are often if not always perceived by B as a infringement of B’s 1A rights.
Bizzarro World no?
Bizzarro Zion hell hole 🕳 World.
Iraq, Lybia, Syria and Lebanon were once vocal supporters of Palestine on the global stage. Now these once-great nations are now destroyed, facing a similar fate to their linguistic brethren in Gaza. Iran has been next on the list for 20+ years, and I have hope the US empire is now too weak to, “Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran” to quote Jon McCain.
The Arab leaders know the drill:
“If you want to stay alive, the Zionists will thrive!”
Thanks for the extremely kind words. This very long article took quite a lot of effort to put together and I’m very glad at least some people found it useful.
When I include the cover-image of a book in one of my articles that means I’ve carefully read it cover-to-cover, unless I indicate otherwise. I often find that important details are buried deep in the text and I’ll only discover them with a full, careful reading. As a counter-example, I never read the Alan Dershowitz book, so although I linked to it, I didn’t include a cover-image.
And you’re entirely correct about the Wikipedia article on Ethnic Cleansing. I casually read it and noticed that the two I was focusing upon weren’t included in the half-dozen examples cited, but I’d missed the link-reference to the comprehensive list of cases, though that tends to be obfuscatory just as you suggest.
>today’s bizarre America
So what do you think accounts for ‘today’s bizarre America’? — what makes the America of today bizarre? — you seem to do a lot of reading and pontificating, so why not spend some time thinking about what has made ‘today’s America’ so ‘bizarre’? — that seems rather important, right? — here are a couple of suggestions to get you started: 1) racial diversity, and 2) Jewish influence, especially in the media.
Yes, In a sense I concur with your comment; that the Palestinian genocide taking place is just a run of the mill genocide, and one that has yet to be completed. What is amazing about the whole affair is how the Palestinians are able to hold on for so long. I would not call the Palestinians privileged in any sense, afterall they are victims to an atrocity that should not be taking place, but I would rather say they are “slick” in being able to stand up to this stuff. Maybe it is because they happen to be located where three major religions have thier epicenter, and thus the microscope of the world is upon them? Maybe good PR? Maybe something else? If for nothing else, the world should study their case, learn from them, and maybe some other future genocides can be mitigated.
Thanks. I know that I’d heard about the Gus Russo books five or six years ago from commenter here, but couldn’t remember who it was. And thanks also for the very kind words.
Such as Israel’s domestic rift between the ruling coalition and the opposition, which portends increasing internecine conflict with long-term implications for the political character of Israel.
Conscription-averse Haredim are the fastest growing political bloc in Israel, a phenomenon which will gradual weaken the country’s military strength. This same constituency is top-heavy with Jews who eschew secular education acquired for the regular workforce, which will negatively impact Israel’s economy.
Add to this the pressure to enact and enforce more Talmudic law in the public square, and the secular crowd will simply go elsewhere. Many already have. They’ve lost confidence in the state security apparatus and the prospect of re-occupying Gaza will add to Israel’s already hemorraging economy the fiscal, martial and political burdens that they had eliminated when they first withdrew from there.
We also haven’t mentioned how the political opposition of younger generations of Americans presages ill fortune for Israel in the years to come. It’s losing the PR war on that front badly.
I don’t see Israel being able to hold together enough to weather the coming storm. Give it a generation, tops.
Argentina. Weimar Germany. Post Perestroika Russia. Venezuela. Ho-hum.
The military of the USA is a paper entity. You assume that its power projects at present levels. No evidence. At present trends, the USA is devolving into lawlessness, resembling the war lord eras of ancient China.
Add to this, a defenseless America could be easily be overwhelmed and over lorded by China-Russia in the very near future.
In the school year 2020-21, 437,302 STEM bachelor’s degrees were awarded in the United States. Additionally, 146,573 Master’s degrees in STEM fields were awarded in that year.
The Countries With The Most STEM Graduates
https://www.statista.com/chart/7913/the-countries-with-the-most-stem-graduates/
About half of advanced degree STEM graduates in America are foreigners.
America is in DECLINE. Do you know what the word means? What do you think the TREND is? Do you think that ANYTHING in the physical Universe can decline forever and endlessly? Does the complete breakdown of law and order compute with you, as synonymous with collapse?
https://collapse.news/
Will inflation continue unabated? Will wages CONTINUE to lag inflation?
You appear to be glib and superficial in you prognostication. Most likely due to procrastination in availing yourself to inductive evidence and solid facts.
You’re welcome.
When you think you are “God’s Chosen” it becomes easy to treat everyone else as lesser and not worthy of your time. Makes it easy to dehumanize and brutalize.
Thanks to you and Unz’s later reply to another poster (post 101), for me going back and reading the last part of his long article having to do with Bazelon 😊 which was edifying.
Mafia? Ha! The Jews were the more successful gangsters.
thank you ron unz. again for a great read.
they say history doesn’t so much repeat itself as it rhymes.
i suggest you read a little bit of the history of ireland to add to the parallels to modern israel.
in short, the plantation system set up by the british(yes, them again) over subjugated ireland ran into
very harsh opposition in northern ireland. the answer to this problem by the brits was to introduce a huge
inflection of scottish protestants into the fiercly catholic area. this happened starting over 400 years ago. there is still sectarian violence there in this united kingdom province to this day.
this gives one a view as to how things will never settle down with the israelis and the palestinians.
it also will give insight as to why the irish have such attachment to the palestinians.
Metropolitan Police are hunting for a young women with a placard at the Gaza march in London depicting Nazi atrocities during ww2 and Naked Palestinians lined up and kneeling with IDF soldiers standing by. With the question what’s the difference?
https://twitter.com/zn_ebrahimi/status/1734226579734024607/photo/1
(I have only read a few passages of the text early today, I will read it completely later).
I have seen some people who find it good what is being done in Gaza, who are ready to justify it as completely reasonable or to deny it as the reality. I think that the only way to do that, to ignore what is being done or to accept it as necessary is to have a very strong ideology which allows all kinds of distortions of the reality. It’s a fanatical ideology, or an ideology for fanatics. People who are followers of this ideology don’t think like normal people. But they also have the means to cause normal people to be fooled about what is happening.
actually, at the time of secession, the southern states knew that the justification of aggression by the northern states was slavery. and they also knew and repeatedly said that it was a false justification.
all one has to do is read the statement of secession by the georgia legislature. they state it quite openly.
The zionist Israeli genocide of the Palestinians should come as no surprise , given the track record of zionists being the agent provocateurs in wars, starting with WWI and right down to the war in the Ukraine and the genocide of the Palestinians.
The wars in the middle east were brought on by the Israeli and zionist neocons attack on the WTC on 911 and blamed on the muslims to give the excuse to destroy Iraq and Syria and Libya and Iran all to the benefit of the zionists and their greater Israel agenda, and this genocide in Gaza was also a false flag using the Mossad front Hamas to do the false flag attack on Israel, this is the truth, and as Orwell said , telling the truth in a world of deceit is a revolutionary act.
Zionists are destroyers of nations and humanity and they are proving this in their genocide of the Palestinians, and they will do the same here in America if the American people do not wake up.
I think a combination of the death-of-a-thousand-cuts scenario, Israel’s vulnerability to non-return-to-sender (i.e. anonymously delivered) WMD, and massive delegitimization due to the worst televised genocide in history, will finish Israel off. The decline of US relative power will be a contributing factor.
My comment and questions, while somewhat rhetorical, were addressed to Kevin.
With advancing managerial sclerosis in the dominant academic institutions, the Zionazis need to reinforce their fake scholars. Crooked pedo perv Dershowitz getting handjobs at Epstein’s is just not enough anymore.
So the Izzie fifth column is decapitating the shiksa administrators. They replaced a Dutch holdover at Penn, Bok, with the Beria of the Jew pressure groups, along with the skiksa president Magill.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381724
Traditional money-grubbing usury Jew Ackman and his Izzie scarecrow wife who looks like Beetlejuice are going for the scalp of Harvard’s schwartze shiksa prez.
Now they can nip future Finkelsteins in the bud and destroy them before they can call bullshit on Kike State war propaganda.
Anyone can steal a few hundred thousand dollars. Even a million dollars–could have been anyone. But if someone steals a billion dollars, then you know it had to be a Jew, such as Bernie Madoff and Bankman-Fried. Yet we shouldn’t neglect that other Jewish propensity; they love to entertain. Isn’t that what this fake atrocity porn coming out of Gaza is all about? It’s reality tv for the goys, and some people must be eating it right up like a serial romance novel, released one chapter at a time. While people are distracted and bemused by the latest Hamas atrocity, thousands of Palestinians are being killed, and America is sending money and weapons to the Israeli state
Hey, WM.
Pardon the interruption, but I can’t help but respond to your heartfelt comment.
I think you speak for millions of European-derived Canadians who are struggling to make sense of the clown world in which they currently find themselves.
The first thing to note is your use of the terms “should” and “must” in this sentence:
To begin with, a distinction is necessary between “normative” versus “positive” statements.
Positive statements can be confirmed to be true by an appeal to the facts, e.g., the earth revolves around the sun.
Normative statements are an expression of one’s opinion and cannot be confirmed to be true by an appeal to the facts, e.g., the crime rate is too high.
Your statement is normative, not positive.
That’s because the “ethno-shit” as you put it has been and always will be part of the human condition. It’s natural for people to feel closer to their own family members, their own clan, and their own tribe. That’s because it was critical for their survival.
It was Jewish Supremacists who developed a game plan to conquer the goyim by introducing the gaslighting operations of Tikuun Olam.
The first attempt, Operation Tikkun Olam 1.0, got goyim to prioritize class over ethnicity. They sold it as a Workers’ Paradise. It took several decades, but it ultimately failed.
Their second attempt, Operation Tikkun Olam 2.0, put the emphasis on humanity, especially non-white humanity. So, they sold it as a Wokers’ Paradise. This Big Lie will also be exposed and inevitably fail.
When I was in highschool I was introduced to two concepts in a social science class that I never heard before, “alienated” and “disaffected.” Little did I know that several decades later, I would become intimately familiar with these two terms.
European peoples have been subjected to a massive deracination program by our eternal enemy, especially after WW2. We need to reverse the effects of this programming.
We need to understand and accept this unfortunate reality. Then we need to reclaim our European identity and work toward European unity.
I’ll close by offering my unsolicited advice…give serious consideration to moving to an area in which the majority of the people already think in a racially conscious way. There are a couple of places already established, especially south of the border in Northern Idaho, the Ozarks, for example.
Once again, apologies for the interruption.
Looks like this was the comment in 2019.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-secrets-of-military-intelligence/?showcomments#comment-3269278
Is he the same one who got a standing oafation at his address to both Hoe Houses of Congress? The same one from the nation that attacked deliberately an American ship, and killed Americans?
Uncle Sam, the image of the Jewessay, bent over, squealing, “Sock it to me”.
Amurka, the indispensable clown porn comedy nation.
Impressive! UNZ is its own university. Having said that I’d like to point out some underlying problems not with this article but with our general point of view, as a culture. The classification of this or that group, event, series of events as “good” or “evil” in some moral view does not survive very long in the full light of our political history.
We do not, in the West, share a coherent moral philosophy that would help us judge what is a “war crime” actually is. Societies have gone to war, plundered farms and city, salughtered million sometimes just for the fun of it. Thus, as we sit here, I don’t believe there is such a thing as “international law” because passes for “law” has been violated consistently, blatantly, and deliberately particularly (in recent decades) by the USA and Israel at least on the level of inter-state relations. There is not even the remotest chance we will go “back” to the ideals articulated by those factions that created international organizations like the UN.
So what do we do?
Thanks. But I’d actually read the Gus Russo books back in 2018, so it must have been a different comment or a different commenter.
We are witnessing a global coordinated effort to genocide a people whom Zionist Jews and their pay to play background actors display as example and threat to all those who refuse to submit to a Zionist World Order (ZWO), and the message is, you are next.
These past and present color revolutions are not coincidental. These are planned events supported and funded by every Zionist controlled Black Rock, Vanguard, State Street, Wall Street, Zionist Occupied Government around the world.
This is Global Civil War 1.0 between good and evil.
CQ – Time Traveling Messenger of Truth
“By the end of the Second World War in 1945, Britain was bankrupt and exhausted…”
Actually, Britain was pretty much bankrupt and exhausted in 1939. Almost immediately WW2 began in Europe, the British government had to go on its knees begging for money from the USA. You can be sure it did not do that willingly or happily.
Britain fought most of WW2 on American loans, and finished making the repayments in – from memory – 2006.
Excellent as always, Ron Unz. Thank you.
Hoping American Pravda is reaching a wide readership in USA.
It’s very needful, certainly.
Currently in this tg, detailed news of IDF attacks on S Lebanon, following a reported Israeli demand for Hezbullah to retreat behind the Litani River.
Great Satan long time active in undermining Lebanon.
Which of course greatly benefits American citizens (sarc).
Anyway, just a variant on “War Is The Jews’ Harvest”.
My Life Already, if you can’t turn a penny from this situation …
https://t.me/LebUpdate/35742
skrik, re 41, the UNGA makes law too. A resolution passed by acclamation or a dominant majority can become customary international law. And resolutions against Jew State extermination and apartheid have been passed by the most lopsided majorities of all – many with no votes against but Israel and the US.
In cases like the Jew State extermination campaign, many resolutions invoke jus cogens. When a predator state like Israel breaches jus cogens, “You should have known” applies. Even if no conventional international law governs the specific facts, the wrongful acts give rise to responsibility in international criminal law.
So it’s like Dr. Barrett says. Izzie genocidaires will get away with it as long as their goombas in Langley got clout. As CIA criminality stops working, under SCTO/G-77 pressure, Israel will get decapitated in tribunals and reconstructed back to sovereign responsibility – that is, a free Palestine.
” Count Folke Bernadotte, the head of the Swedish Red Cross, was appointed UN Peace Negotiator, but some of his proposals were viewed unfavorably by the Zionists, who expressed their displeasure by assassinating him, after which his American successor proved much less disagreeable”.
Just as, after John and Robert Kennedy were murdered, subsequent American presidents and candidates were much, much more respectful toward Israel. When Lyndon Johnson, for example, shamelessly covered up the determined Israeli attempts to sink USS “Liberty” and kill all her crew, JFK’s murder was less than 4 years in the rear-view mirror. He may well have thought, “Rather a bunch of unknown sailors than me”.
Ronen Bergman’s book “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations” is an eye-opener. Not least in its sheer length and detail. One is inclined to wonder whether to classify Israel as the world’s greatest ever successful con trick, or the world’s greatest ever criminal conspiracy. Although no doubt the Mafia could have done better had nearly all the world’s governments, banks, and media been in its pocket.
Can you write a prediction of how you think Israel will fail? When it does will happen to A. The 7million Jews who live there and B. Their immense military arsenals
‘In those 1990s conflicts, Gen. Wesley Clark, a Supreme NATO commander of Jewish ancestry, had famously declared “There is no place in modern Europe for ethnically pure states.” But a certain Middle Eastern country had earlier received strong American support in its military efforts to achieve exactly that same objective’.
If it is true (and it’s head-swimmingly difficult to know what is true in these matters) that Jewish religious fundamentalists believe Gentiles to be creations of the Devil, and that, in the words of Rabbi Kook, “The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews… is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle”, many things fall into place.
Especially since such extremely bigoted opinions are apparently held not only by religious Jews, but even by supposedly “secular” Israelis of high military and political rank. I have no idea how deep Mr Netanyahu’s religious convictions are, but he has unhesitatingly referred to the Jewish genocide documented in the Book of Joshua, explicitly linking the Palestinians with “Amalek” as a hostile race that God has commanded the Jews to exterminate utterly. I can’t think of any non-Jewish modern political leader who started a war ostensibly based on religious writings thousands of years old.
If a Jewish leader lies to Gentiles, one has to consider that he may see it as no sin but rather an act of moral merit. General Clark’s words might have deceived Gentiles, but would hardly fool Jews who understood the context.
JFYI Americans.
Reissue of book.
UR ten+ years ago mentioned in this review.
Post contains link to purchase for anyone interested.
https://t.me/antelopehill/1897
From reports I’ve accessed over the years, it is close to evident that the Saud clan originated with a Mesopotamian Jew who migrated to Arabia Felix from Baghdad. He did the old name-change shtick and then became outwardly…at least…Muslim. So if indeed the Sauds “favored Jewish immigration into Palestine” we now have a probable “smoking-gun”.
How many pages can he read per hour?
How many hours straight can he read?
Been struggling for 2 weeks to finish my 600 page book on Mexican history. By the way, Unz mentions the societies of the Mexican Aztecs. The Azteca (Mexican) were merely one, albeit at the time the most powerful, of the hundreds of major city-state like political entities/peoples encountered by the conquistadors. Better to refer to societies of Mesoamericans (e.g. various Maya, Nahua, etc. peoples).
For Ron Unz and others, for your files, a key article justifying the colonial attack on the Palestinians, from the left wing journalist Martha Gelhorn, for whom the Gelhorn Prize is named, winners including Jonathan Cook and John Pilger, ironically enough. Shows clearly that the so called ‘left’ was fully on board with the zionist project back in the early sixties. This article was very important in legitimizing zionism.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1961/10/the-arabs-of-palestine/304203/
Though the 3rd Reich still existed at the time and sent one of their last surviving large ocean-liners into East Prussia to evacuate surrounded German soldiers and civilians, that ship had no air-support or even an escorting naval vessel. It was sunk with almost all hands drowning, by a prowling Russian submarine.
Then we must consider the Devastation of Dresden, the most highly cultured city with more architectural and art treasures than any other German city in April of ’45, just scant weeks before Gross Admiral Karl Doenitz surrendered all German armed forces to the Allies. There were no military forces or industries in Dresden…but it did house countless thousands of refugees from further east as the fronts advanced.
British bombers by night and American big-birds by day completely demolished that city in an orgy of blood-sacrifices as well as burnt-offerings, as ordered by the Sanhedrin highest rabbinical “authorities” who through, their central banking apparatus headquartered in City of London, had full operative control over both the British and American governments…and war machines. The actual casualties were well over the MINIMUM estimates in the range of 50,000 martyrs to the delight of the ancient Hebrew Tribal WarGod JHVH/Yahweh/Jehovah…may piss be upon him.
More Bull$hit by a Talmudist cowering behind an Irish monicker. I’m onto you, creep. Trotsky was financed by Rottenchild Uber-agent, Jacob Schiff and the former housemates in Frankfurt with the Rottenchilds, the descendant known as Warburg…to the tune of $15 MILLION in gold.
No, the Bolshevik revolution was not a “civil war”. It was fully subsidized with millions by the usual suspects, the International Bank$ter cabal.
You, P.M. are nothing but a shill for the Talmudist agenda….fake name and all.
“So in the early years of the twentieth century a small number of ideologically-zealous Central and Eastern Europeans plotted to seize a distant, already heavily-settled land and displace its many hundreds of thousands of longtime, existing inhabitants, a proposal of astonishing audacity, made more so by the fact that they ultimately succeeded. No obvious historical parallel comes to mind.”
In 711 AD, the Moslems attacked Spain, conquering most of the nation. At that time, Spain was a Christian nation. It took roughly about 780 yrs until the fall of Grenada in 1491, when Spain was reconquered for Christianity. In other words roughly 80% of Christian Spain was conquered and the Christian community of Spain (which had lived there for several centuries prior to 711) the Christian communities were driven northward (where the Christians still maintained the land). Over the centuries, longtime Christian residents of three quarters of Spain were forcibly moved out, and Islamic residents “suddenly” moved in (from North Africa, and other parts of the Middle East)
That is a quite obvious historical parallel, Mr. Unz. Many nations of the world during the conquests have exhibited similar degrees of successfully removing native inhabitants of the lands they’ve recently conquered. Another obvious example of course, would be the American Indians, if one wants to be technical.
Aside from that section of your article, I tend to agree with the basic points regarding the Palestinian question. Thank you for the valuable information regarding the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Thanks for the comment. I dunno, …. I guess maybe it’s the way I was raised. My parents were both cerebral who tried not to censor the children too much, realizing the kids needed to think in order to work out a good life, … so don’t discourage thinking for Godsakes, …. that type of thing, …, and it was a large boisterous bright family of both boys and girls. So every strange corner of contrasting differentiation was mercilessly explored by me and my siblings (me smack dab in the middle of all that action, age-wise), in order to differentiate ourselves, each from each other, and then from our parents, as the case may be, according to the developmental stage of each kid, over a 12-year range. Also little kids can be quite mean-spirited little tyrants to their brothers and sisters, at times, whilst working towards this differentiation. Maybe that’s where I got this sense from, …. at the end of the day, us children could take on any damn identity-fantasy we wanted for awhile, … as an experiment for a bit, without parents freaking out too much…. none of that was discouraged, …. what was discouraged was to pretend that your brothers and sisters were not doing precisely the same thing, and so needed to be given some leeway too. It’s just all so obvious, … what are little kids supposed to be doing? … playing – right? We were encouraged I think, to love our own selves enough, to make room for ourselves experimental-warts-and-all, … and how can you do that with all these brothers and sisters, if you don’t allow room for that to happen, for themselves too, …. because you love them, because you can appreciate them for their neotenous fragility/resilience, because you love yourself. It’s so simple.
Then you go out in the world and work that mode beyond your nuclear family (give some space for people’s experimental identity antics, because they are like you, …. just a searching human being like all the rest). How do you say this? What’s wrong with?:
It’s not just the ethno-shit that should be secondary (and of course I get it, that this tribal aspect is innate and every last person on earth has got it impinging on their psyche at the innate level). It’s any of these self-identities that a person will use all the time (including me, we all do it all the time) that should be secondary. Be it gay or straight. Of religious or not. Or Christian or Muslim. Or white or blue collar. Etc. etc. etc.
I think it is a fact that we all struggle with identity issues. I am pretty sure that is not just my opinion. So, …. what are we gonna do about it? How about realizing what it is about oneself, that you actually value (human attributes) and the looking around to appreciate those attributes wherever you see them (they can be astoundingly easily observed within the life of any human being, from anywhere, for any background). We are all searchers, bound together by our grasping in the dark, … which is just so much better and less anxiety provoking, if we deign to grope along together. Thus: People first. Meaning human identity first, and then all the other identities are going to be secondary to that, for such a person, … and no, …. not sweeping the spicy differences otherwise, under the rug. Because people need to be given space to think. And in order to think, they need to be able to talk to each other (and not just polite-mode, past each other).
“The United Nations had legally created the State of Israel…”
I beg to disagree. The UN General Assembly’s resolutions are non-binding. Moreover, how can an assembly of the representatives of a bunch of foreign countries dictate to the inhabitants of a non-member country what government they are to have? I cannot, no matter how hard I try, think of another occasion on which the UN was said to have “created” a brand-new nation.
Once the UNGA had adopted Resolution 181 (29 November 1947) recommending the partition of Palestine, two things happened – neither of which had anything to do with the UN. Nor did anyone make the slightest attempt to implement Resolution 181, then or later.
The British, whose UN Mandate ended on 15 May 1948, decided to get out of Palestine as soon as possible (thus keeping to a minimum the number of their soldiers and civilians murdered by Zionists). While still in the country, the British were careful not to intervene in “local politics” as they no longer had a shred of authority to do so. In Jaffa, however, the British did help to evacuate Jewish soldiers injured by flying debris from houses they themselves had dynamited with their owners and their families asleep inside.
The Zionists seized the initiative and systematically grabbed everything they could get. Within months they had taken control over almost all of Palestine. On the last day of the British Mandate, the Jewish Agency in Palestine issued the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, otherwise known as the “Israeli Declaration of Independence”. I have never understood from what the Zionists were declaring their independence, as the British Mandate had ended the previous day and no one else was trying to control them. Perhaps the informal title “Declaration of Independence” was chosen to appeal to Americans, who had actually had to fight to gain theirs, and to get their sympathy against the British, who were cast as the villains of the piece.
The maxim of the “Pirates of the Caribbean” more or less sums up Zionist policy in those days, and since.
“Take what you can; give nothing back”.
Some great resources, Ron! BTW, the fact that Germans were expelled from all those places means that it would be quite feasible to expel all the Jewish settlers from the West Bank — unless they want to apply for Palestinian citizenship, which I expect will be as likely as Nazi war veterans converting to Judaism. We could even give them longer than 10 minutes to pack up.
Not to mention the Mexican immigrants driving the Blacks out of Compton!
Audiobooks? They’re the greatest innovation since Gutenberg’s invention of the printing press. That plus synthesized voice readers for e-books. These allow me to get through 100 books a year, only of which about 10 are the print variety.
Posted previously by me:
December 05, 2023
Who Is Really Behind The Mass Slaughter In Gaza?
Who is really behind the Israeli mass slaughter of the people of Gaza?
Here is the answer to that question:
Israel’s dependence on the United States was stated bluntly by retired IDF Maj. General Yitzhak Brick in an interview earlier this week.
“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the U.S. The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability. … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”
Period.
https://www.moonofalabama.org
You will raise your knowledge and consciousness by reading my comments.
“Oh, FFS, whose bright idea was it to choose a Jewess to moderate a meeting between Jews and Arabs?”
Three words: “New York Times”.
Ha’aretz is far more honest and unbiased.
Time to Divert Holocaust Reparations from Jews to Palestinians
78 years after the end of World War II, Holocaust Reparations are still being paid to Jews.
e.g. see this article from 2023:
Germany agrees to record $1.4 billion in annual Holocaust reparations as survivors age
By Asaf Elia-Shalev
June 14, 2023 11:59 PM
https://www.jta.org/2023/06/14/global/germany-agrees-to-record-1-4-billion-in-annual-holocaust-reparations-as-survivors-age
It is time to divert those Holocaust Reparations from Jews to Palestinians.
This is not a matter of denying the Nazi Holocaust, but of denying that it is the ONLY Holocaust.
Another one is happening right now, in the full glare of the world media, yet politicians do not have the courage to take on the Jewish State or its Lobby.
I call on the UN General Assembly to pass a motion recommending that Holocaust Reparations be diverted from Jews to Palestinians.
This motion would not be binding in any way. But it have great symbolic value. It would affirm that 78 years of Reparations to Jews is enough, and that One Holocaust Does Not Justify Another.
It is necessary to link the two Holocausts. As long as the world speaks of “THE Holocaust”, Jewish suffering is given primacy even though the Jewish state is enacting its own Holocaust of Palestinians.
“Those to whom evil is done,” as the poet Auden put it,
“do evil in return.”
But apparently to different people who have done them no harm.
Balfour Declaration – Breach of Contract
World Jewry has breached its contract with Britain, by which Israel was created.
David Lloyd George, PM at the time, wrote that the Balfour Declaration was “a contract with Jewry” (meaning the Jewish Lobby; other Jews did not support Zionism).
It stipulates that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”.
Netanyahu has invoked the Amalek genocide of 1 Samuel 3, implying genocidal intent in Gaza and perhaps the West Bank too,
Would there be a court at which a Breach of Contract claim could be brought?
Not just Mesoamericans.
https://taospueblo.com/about/
https://www.nps.gov/chcu/index.htm
etc.
>2) Jewish influence
There is always a slim chance that something totally unpredictable like the scenarios you mentioned might happen to tip the balance of power say within a decade or two. I would not rule it out. But I don’t think anyone can predict that at the present time.
Please absorb the unfortunate reality that Jeremy Hammond’s “The Myth of the U.N. Creation of Israel” presents patently insufficient proof that “Israel” is not a state.
I am (and since 1972 have been) law professor. My expertise includes International Law, pertinent Evidence Law, and the rules of International Court of Justice litigation. I assure you that if, on premise of Hammond’s argument, either Palestine or an aggrieved U.N.-member State (e.g., Syria) filed an International Court of Justice [“ICJ”] application seeking an advisory opinion that “Israel” is not a state, the Court would dismiss the application summarily for being patently insufficient.
Hammond’s proof does not account United Nations Security Council [“UNSC”] Resolution 69 (4 March 1949) or United Nations General Assembly [“UNGA”] Resolution 273 (11 May 1949). UNSC Res. 69 asked the Gen. Assembly to admit “Israel” to the U.N. as a Member State. UNGA Res. 273 purported to admit “Israel” as a Member State.
In a comment he posted under his article, Hammond mentions UNGA Res. 273. But he does not begin to show that Res. 273 is invalid. In that comment, he mentions he wrote a book.. That book does not show Res. 273 invalid.
Unless Palestine or a U.N.-member State files an ICJ application and proves those two Resolutions — or at least UNGA Res. 273 — invalid per the U.N. Charter or some other pertinent/sufficient U.N. or ICJ-recognized document or legal premise, “Israel” can continue — properly (at least per “custom”) — to maintain that it is a legal State.
[In my earlier comment (comment # 34, to which your comment replied), I referenced a soon-to-be published article of Prof. Jaffee. (See https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/#comment-6308161 ) Prof. Jaffee’s article proves both UNSC Res. 69 and UNGA Res. 273 invalid.]
Because an even larger number of Muslims were displaced by the Indian extremist Hindus. India bjp was trained by mossad. Hindu extremists killed women and children during the Gujrat riots they burned pregnant women pulling their fetus out yes the unimaginable crimes of bjp
No doubt both the US and Israel are divided. I read that 370,000 Israelis have left since October 7. But are any of the trends you mentioned going to have a sufficient impact on the fate of Palestinians? Within a year the picture may become clearer.
Furthermore, here’s the Schwartzer Chef:
Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, who is typically a reliable mouthpiece of the military-industrial complex, nevertheless recently declared that Israel, by continuing the assault on Palestinian civilians, risked a “strategic defeat” in Gaza. It was a surprising admission, and suggests that the Biden administration’s blanket support for Israel may be eroding.
Jimmy and Americans’ Comedian Kurt Metzger talk to The Dive host Jackson Hinkle about why someone like Austin would be expressing doubts about the Israeli assault on Gaza at this time.
Thanks for clarifying, Ron. You mention the book in this April 2019 comment:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/a-theory-about-why-judge-bazelon-could-empathize-with-criminals/#comment-3144976
Here is a July 2016 comment mentioning Supermob under one of your pieces.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-legacy-of-sydney-schanberg/#comment-1489375
December 2017 comment by the same commenter (who also replied to the David Bauer comment I linked earlier).
https://www.unz.com/article/moneybull-an-inquiry-into-media-manipulation/#comment-2104811
The Dershowitz Finkelstein controversy is a Jewish sectarian one. From my reading, Palestine had become a semi desert very backward place by the middle of the nineteenth century as recorded by Mark Twain. Then it quickly developed from the settlements from emigres from the Balkan conflicts and Zionist Jewish emigres. That explains to a large extent the sympathy the Palestinians generate outside the Middle East. Many are, as their propagandists emphasise, white. Indeed they invariably look like the Trump family. The Palestinian town in ancient Caesarea was called Bosniak named after its Bosnian refugee population. It’s gone and is replaced by modern Caesarea which is a resort town with Rothschilds and Netanyahu homes. After the Nakba, the identity of Palestine as an ethnic entity was created. Previously, Palestine was a regional name and also the name of a carved out British Protectorate. Nakba is red underlined by online spell check, Holocaust, Chutzpah, Pogrom are not.
A most impressive analysis. You seem to have founded a new field of historiometrics, to complement econometrics.
What happened with Finkelstein’s law suit against Dershowitz?
Your comparison of the plights of the Palestinians with the American Indians is particularly helpful, since guilt over the latter seems to be what thwarts effective American criticism of the Zionists.
My focus listening to audiobooks is dismal. Have to constantly relisten. Retention is worse. Audiobooks work for light stuff.
The truth is the Arab leaders detest the Palestinians and will only pay lip service to the cause. They are just as captured by Mammon as west. Nobody wants another deluge of refugees. So don’t expect them to do anything. So the answer is “yes” there is a similar dynamic at play.
Still, the two most populous regions with large scale civ that were conquered by the Spanish can be largely thought of as Mesoamerican civ (Maya, Zapotec, Mixtec, Nahua, Tarasca, etc) and Andean civ. Other parts (e.g. North America, Cone of South America, Amazon) of the Americas were relatively sparsely populated as Unz says. Ya some interesting exceptions like the one in Aridoamerica that you pointed to
This pattern probably mostly explains the trend in ancestry that exists until this day. For example, America and Argentina having less Amerindian ancestry than Peru and Mexico. And northern Mexico having less than southern Mexico.
Suppose we are derailing the thread.
A must see video that exposes Operation Tikkun Olam’s endgame.
Jewish Truther Warns The World – Interview with Elizabeth Glass:
https://odysee.com/@IsraeliNewsLive:a/jewish-truther-warns-the-world-interview-with-elizabeth-glass:0?r=4TDQHJFHuHHAfMKrpJRSJvSCYSKzDpYe
Description:
Excerpt from 45:25 – 47:03…
Jana benNun – How confusing is this? Dr Zelenko is heading a medical freedom movement. And every chance he got on every platform… he brings up the Noahide Laws. Now, that’s confusing. Could you comment on this?
Elizabeth Glass – Well, as I said before, they have to warn people that this is what their plans are… And as absolutely horrific as it is for… I’m doing this for Jewish people so they learn the truth because we are being used to push this agenda. So, it’s like a triangle… the people at the top are demons and they use the good people at the bottom, via deception, to push this agenda. And so and I learned this from you actually, the demons at the top they think of Jewish people as Gods unto themselves. So, that’s why its so critical for jewish people to learn what’s going on and speak out en mass… learning about this and educating others like in real life is probably better… That’s really critical to do… because all the gentiles are going to be Palestinians, unless the jews en mass speak out.
> The actual casualties were well over the MINIMUM estimates in the range of 50,000 martyrs
The report of March 10, 1945, made up by the Höhere SS- und Polizeiführer Elbe, stated that:
https://fpp.co.uk/History/General/Dresden/TheTimes070766.html
—–
Casualties: by 10th March, 1945, 18,375 dead, 2,212 seriously injured, and 13,918 slightly injured had been registered, with 350,000 homeless and permanently evacuated.
—–
With 18,375 confirmed dead by March 10, it was predicted that the final death toll would reach 25,000. The real death toll is not likely to be much beyond that. In his earlier years, David Irving was more honest and hence the above letter which he wrote to the Times pointing out the above.
The Palestinian population were a quiescent population historically. They more or less capitulated during the Oslo accords era. Gaza was designated a sister city to Tel Aviv and big plans were afoot to turn it into a tourist resort. The differencee between them and other ethnic cleansing is their situation is never static. They can’t settle down and get a life as for example the post war German refugees. The Israelis keep stealing from them every day. Anyone who personally encounters Israelis can attest to that. In cheap lodgings only YMCAs are safe from their depredations because of its C word.
One solution would be for your employers to stop the psychopathic genocidal bombing campaign.
But that’s a feature of psychopaths, isn’t it? The inability to recognize their own sickness.
Agree.
Sheer murderous criminality of Israel is without recent precedent.
There has however just occurred an interesting development ref UNGA Res 377.
We will see where this goes ref the Hyena and its protectors. (my bold below)
https://t.me/TheMediterraneanMan/3726
Several years ago I investigated this story and found a piece by Christopher Hitchens which demolished the propaganda lies about those “broadcasts”. Start at page 81 of the linked book for the relevant chapter.
https://refugeeacademy.org/upload/library/Blaming_the_Victims_Spurious_Scholarship_and_the_Palestinian.pdf
Joan Peters: I want to thank Mr. Unz for the details he provided about this woman and her silly book. I’d heard about the “Empty Land” BS before, but hadn’t investigated it because it was so obviously nonsense that the work involved seemed pointless. I’d already known Alan Dershowitz was a jackass, but hadn’t previously heard of his involvment in this story. Better not say any more about that ***** **** ** **** because he has unlimited money to start lawsuits and ruin careers. But I was able to download both of Finkelstein’s books on the disgusting story and will hopefully find time to examine them someday. Once again, thank you for bringing them to my attention.
My own theory about what happened with this UN vote is that a bunch of “delegates” were discreetly offered piles of money – and such other considerations they might desire – to vote the “Right” way. The UN was brand new, probably everything was chaotic, and the deed went unnoticed. (This notion mirrors another theory of mine involving the 1940 Republican Primary Convention. Lots of Southern Republicans from states which would be guaranteed to go for Roosevelt went to the big city to have a good time, and suddenly found themselves being offered piles of extra spending money if they cast their votes for Wilkie. British Intelligence wasn’t leaving anything to chance with the US getting into WW2. Like with the Zionists in 2024, every candidate in 19 was a “safe” one.)
My interpretation of the “Jewish Brigade” is different. A “Brigade” is not a very large unit, and by September of 1944 the European War was nearing an end. The Zionists didn’t anticipate the Battle of the Bulge offensive by the NAZIs, so the war didn’t end by Christmas as many expected. The Brigade was actually sent into combat in Italy, and when it took a few casualties the unit was quickly yanked back to safer conditions. Fighting Germans was only an excuse for the formation of the Jewish Brigade – its actual contributions to the war barely merited the term “negligible”. Its real work began after the end of WW2 in Europe.
Even before the fighting had ended, the American wing of the Zionists swung into action with the demand that the surviving Holocaust Jews get better treatment than the other displaced and ravaged victims of NAZI Germany. Earl Harrison was dispatched to Europe on an official mission, and his report started a political firestorm. (Lots of publicity!) The Jewish survivors were indeed suffering horribly, but so were all the rest. What happened was that the Jews got more food and improved conditions, but at the expense of the rest of the sufferers.
The Harrison Report and its Repercussions
https://tinyurl.com/yetwufp2
Now we must return to the real goal of the Jewish Brigade. Their teams of experts took exclusive control of the Jewish camps, and the inmates became putty in their hands. Recall how Netanyahu has claimed that the Palestinians were the true cause of the Holocaust? Imagine being a survivor of years of NAZI horrors, and suddenly learning that they’d been put up to it by filthy sub-human squatters in the “Holy Land”. Not only do you want to get out of Europe, but going after the swine responsible for killing your friends and family must have also been high on your to-do list as well. Of course it wasn’t all “work” for the Brigade members, for they took time off to murder random Germans. Just as they’d done during their brief time in “combat” when they’d execute POWs.
A Visit to Three Arab Kingdoms: https://ufile.io/4vyws29b I was a beginner when I scanned this years ago – my technique has improved since then. 🙂
2002 Hasbara book: https://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf
2009 Hasbara book: https://www.docdroid.net/fa9h/the-luntz-report-the-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary-pdf Page 4:
That’s one lie they (the savage barbarians of “Holy ‘Israel’”) have totally discarded.
Zionist Propagandists may not be publishing “how-to” books anymore. Gossip has it that they’re using AI bots to do the work instead. If you run into any of these critters, be advised that “reasoning” with a computer program isn’t very productive.
The port of Caesarea was built by King Herod. He backed the wrong side during the Roman civil war and built the city to demonstrate his loyalty to Augustus Caesar. It replaced the former port of Joppa, where Jonah embarked on his journey. Whether it was Herod or Rothschild, Caesarea has always been a place to graft oneself onto the seats of power
I have made the experience, that my retention is better listening to podcasts.
Why is that. That’s strange. Instead of writing about history why not have an article on this frontal attack on all venues of free speech?
“American Pravda” today is what is published regarding these current events. If you are not gaming people here with unz review, you quite clearly need to be paying attention to what “Pravda” is printing about these events.
Thank you.
Yes, I know the 4 million was not only Jews. I didn’t write the sentence carefully. But still, you can’t just disappear 2.5 million deaths, no matter whose deaths they are.
And if you can ….that raises even more questions.
> Trotsky was financed by Rottenchild Uber-agent, Jacob Schiff and the former housemates in Frankfurt with the Rottenchilds, the descendant known as Warburg…to the tune of $15 MILLION in gold.
Ridiculous lies. No one who has ever studied anything about the Russian Civil War imagines that gold played any role in allowing the Bolsheviks to win.
—–
After the abandonment of Irkutsk on 12 July [1918], discipline eroded quickly in many fleeing Red Army units. … the Anarchist detachment of Efrem Perezhogin led an infectious degeneration into banditry… Perzhogin and company seemed to worship gold, and the Tsentrosibir’ commissars were toting 200 poods (about 7,220 pounds) of it, taken from the state bank in Irkutsk…
Having not been paid their salaries for some time, the ignoble revolutionary mob was demanding that the soviet pay them from their arrears before the Whites arrive and execute them. No one was foolish enough to accept paper currency, which would be worthless under a White occupation, so the authorities gradually began to dip into the state bank in Chita. Including the gold Tsentrosibir’ had carted in from Irkuts, the bank held about four tons of gold and six tons of silver…
At dawn on 25 August Perezhogin led a large gang into the state bank, dispersed the security detail, and began hauling out scores of boxes of gold…
Perezhogin and the first wave of bank robbers were already on an eastbound train to Blagoveshchensk… The Transbaikal Bolshevik boss, Ivan Butin, grumbled ‘The bastards have slapped Soviet authroity.’ The anarchist bacchanalia continued in Blagoveshchensk, seemingly mindless of the approach of the Japanese army.
— Jamie Bisher, White Terror, pp. 84-5.
Bisher’s account of how the anarchists were looting banks where gold had been kept is just an indication of how unreliable gold really was as a tool in the Russian Civil War. If the Whites had been willing to support a popular government led by Social Revolutionaries and Mensheviks, then, sure, the Bolsheviks would have lost under those terms. But Right-wing coups against the popular Left were never going to deliver a victory. The Bolsheviks could be the least popular faction on the Left, but the only workable alternative was the more popular Left. A coup by Admiral Kolchak never stood a chance of winning.
That was why I quoted Reitlinger as having given a number close to 1 million in 1953. Reitlinger never claimed that 4 million, Jew or otherwise, died at Auschwitz. The plaque at the camp was just Soviet propaganda. But that should always be kept separate from Western academics, even when one still has some criticism of these academics. Raul Hilberg may have been wrong on a number of things, but he never gave the number 4 million.
The Yad Vashem Museum in Israel has a file of millions of names of Jewish holocaust victims. What do you make of this? Is the whole collection materially false?
General question, only slightly OT:
Since when did words like “disappear,” “genocide,” “suicide,” etc., become action verbs?
For example, “You can’t just disappear 2.5 million deaths…” or “We are witnessing a global coordinated effort to genocide a people…”
Who knew there were winners and losers in…war?
Who knew that when Hamas, backed by billions through the Mullahs of Iran, declared to Israel: We want to kill you. We will kill you. We exist only to destroy you…..
would result in their target killing them? To the Leftist groups expressing shock over this is disingenuous at best.
Watching this unfold has changed me.
I started out never doubting the Holocaust. The Jewish side of my family never spoke about it, because they were too busy having a great life.
Then, I started reading on TUR, Taki Mag and a few other outlets. I then calibrated my views. I started to believe the Holocaust was greatly exaggerated. 6 million did seem absurd. Where are the bones? Where is the evidence? And Jews would not shut up about it. That Germany criminalized any discussion doubting the Holocaust did not sit well with me. I began to see the entire matter differently.
However….this response to the 10/7/23 murders has shifted me back to believing the entire Holocaust narrative.
Why?
Because in this entire thread, and indeed Ron’s article…not one person is being intellectually honest. Hamas started this war. And, to use the language of the streets…they fucked around and found out. #FAFO
No one cared about the Palestinian people…until Jews started winning. Is it an optimal situation? Of course not. Are some cultures superior to others? Yes. Should a group that pledges to murder another group have global protection from that group? No.
This is nothing more than a diabolic orgy of Jew Hatred and Leftist virtue signaling. False. Wretched. Sinister.
From a review of Segev’s The Seventh Million,
_____
Extraordinary work of historical revision/journalism Ron; thank you.
In my opinion, these two paragraphs are worded in ways that convey unfortunate impressions:
Re “cause-and-effect relationship” — a cause must come before its effect.
The zionist project — Israel — was in existence and fully operational for over 25 years before an alleged holocaust of Jews in Europe in world wars.
Israel was not “created” as a result of a holocaust which, by the way, is not and never was a “reality” but a narrative; one of history’s most persistent and pernicious feats of propaganda.
Further — honestly, the meaning of Segev’s title, The Seventh Million, is not at all clear to me (I have not read the book).
IF, in Segev’s context, “six million” signifies “planned extermination of six million European Jews during the Second World War,” then The Seventh Million signifies the “planned extermination” of another million — Palestinians?? By Germans??
Or is Segev unwittingly revealing what I believe to be a plausible scenario for What Really Happened in Germany/Russia/Poland in the course of two world wars (a scenario that puts cause-and-effect in their logical relationship):
Zionists schemed for the deaths of XXX numbers of superfluous Jews from Eastern Europe and the migration of more useful Jews, especially wealthy and skilled German Jews, to Palestine where, as Edwin Black has recorded,, without them the decades-long Zionist project to create a Jewish State almost certainly would have failed.
My father had a much older brother, born about 12 years before my father who was born in 1921. Family have secrets, not necessarily ones intentionally made. My father was with the British army in Palestine in 1936. He joined the army then, because as he told me when I asked, he was hungry. But “why were you hungry?”
History, including family histories, do not emerge all of a piece. After reading thousands of books about past events, it is easy to be led to believe that unlike us who live their lives with barely any awareness of the events of their day, that the main protagonists we read about did either. Most of us have an aha moment.
We are far more easily deceived than we can imagine, even when the deception ought to have been as plain as the nose on our faces. It is not that we believe what we want to believe — although that is certainly true — but more, that we naturally believe our own perceptions.
Our perceptions in the moment do not include and cannot include much more than the intelligence we receive. We are carried along by momentum. We are carried along on flimsy evidence — and disturbingly later after we discover we acted on flimsy evidence — we are mystified that much stronger evidence existed for entirely different actions.
These actions are often done out of false perceptions. Much of our beliefs are falsifiable but we cling to them the way we would cling to a life rafts in a maelstrom. Beliefs added to events cause us to rationalize insane behaviours.
The gullible are not them — they are us.
Shrewd operators calculatingly manipulate us into believing hoaxes which touch our emotions. Unearned sympathies cause us to support at a distance things which we have no possibility of verifying and would not support — if it was our ill adjusted brother in law making the plea to borrow you car for a day or so, “Just one more time. Trust me.”
A friend may wonder why you were so negative towards your brother in law. The friend goes home and tells his wife how unreasonable you were. “His brother in law seemed like a really nice guy.”
Your wife says, “I hope you didn’t get sucked into one of my brother’s sob stories again! Last time he had the car for almost two weeks.”
“Not this time,” you say. “How was I to know the errand was in California.”
There they are, the famous last words, “How was I to know…”
My father was repulsed by the things he saw in Palestine. Not only in Palestine did he experience the terrors of combat. He was captured on Leros. Leros is an island in the Aegean Sea. Churchill wanted to open a southern front to attack Germany from the south. But he abandoned the notion and abandoned the British force stranded on various islands in the Aegean, without back up.
He was captured by German paratroopers. And sent to a prisoner of war camp near Munich. The guards were teenagers. By the time my father had successfully escaped and returned to Britain he understood all kind of things differently than people on the home front believed.
Later in the 1950s his older brother said some things which caused my father to completely repudiate his Jewish forebears. My grandfather was severely wounded when he was blown if his horse during WW I. He died shortly after my father was born.
My grandfather had owned some properties but after he died the lenders foreclosed. The lenders kept the properties including the equity. My grandmother barely understood the reasoned but my father did not enjoy the comforts of the home his older brother had grown in. No more piano! No more books! Barely enough to eat! After the war Britain was bankrupt. Not everyone was bankrupt. My understanding did not arrive with any particular piece of the puzzle. It took many years. I heard conversations my mother and father had about his different take on events we would watch on TV.
He was obviously Jewish looking but I never made the connection until after he died. After he died I saw photographs of him taken in Cairo and in Jerusalem. I read his war correspondence. I realized then many things which should have been clear to me. I, like many people accepted the Holocaust. Indeed the narrative camouflaged the entirety of Jewish history. In fact things my father said ought to have given me pause to include his subtle reflections in my own.
Curiously I can recall the things he said and his complete repudiation of anything religious. When I asked him about things I heard in school about religious stuff he deflected. Although we went to a Jew owned bakery and a Jew owned deli and his closest friends were Jewish I never made the connection.
I heard the term black Irish from my mother. She said my father was black Irish. My father was in The Royal Irish Fusileers. I just presumed an entire medley of things which I failed to falsify. One has as a rule four grandparents and eight grandparents. I moved with my parents to America as a young boy. All these antecedents were distant in time and place.
The fifties were larded with comic books, movies, TV, novels, Cold War machinations, and for a young kid WW II was indeed a world war. WW II was presented in simple terms to the general public. The more I read the more confused I became. But I persisted. I inherited all my father’s books. A library of books is itself revelatory. The dates of publication cannot be falsified. A book written in 1955 cannot include revelations which emerged in 1975 or the history of events between 1955 and 1975.
A certain revelation was disconcerting. People deceive, they lie, they obfuscate, they mislead. I am in completely in accord with Ron Unz. We have been intentionally deceived. Jewish perfidy did not begin in the 20th Century. It began a long time ago. Jewish lending practices were never not intentionally deceptive. Their beliefs captured Jews as well as Gentiles, Arabs, Negroes, Chinese, Japanese, Americans, Germans, etc. Being a Jew is being bred to be against the entire world. Being born a Jew is enough justification to kill the world. Organized anything is inherently Fascist. People crave belonging. But Judaism is in the grip of a small faction of deceivers. “ How were we to know the depths of Jewish obscurantism and willful misdirection?”
I doubt most Jews understand to what extent they have succumbed to their own promulgations? Most of it ingrained habit reenforced by certain cultural attachments. I doubt most Jews ever read their “books.” Their brainwashing is intentionally maintained by the constant repetition of a handful of tropes and memes. Then maintained by self fulfilling behaviors which cannot hope but invite repudiation by others. The history of Zionism in Palestine began long before the present Nakba.
There they go again. The Jew will never be satisfied. This time the entire world is witness to Jew perfidy. The Jew believes he can kill without the world ignore their intentional provocation to eradicate the Palestinians. The Jew is holding the world to ransom. I doubt it will be state violence against the state of Israel which will bring down the Jew. It will be something much worse. The world will act against the Jew just as the Jew is acting now against the world. Where is the justice or mercy in Gaza today? Intentional injustice does not deserve mercy. Jews do not understand the Sefirot!
What is Zionism? Jews seem uncommonly susceptible to the temptation of being Gods chosen. Jews collectively believe they are uniquely deserving of special treatment and consideration. Why? Where is the evidence of their superiority? They know not, restraint. This is a curse! They have chosen a hill upon which to die. They have engaged in the 21st Century in their age old behaviors especially towards Ukraine, COVID, the opioid scam, and now in Gaza. These are the manifestations of overweening power and arrogance warned about over the centuries as leading to a downfall. Actions in the world can no longer be camouflaged despite Jewish control of education, media, industries, and especially banking. Benjamin Netanyahu is most certainly in the grip of Jewish mania. The Jew today never knows a days rest. They live their lives in perpetual anxiety. They never have enough of anything. They imagine that if they could eliminate everyone but themselves they would finally be at peace. This is a delusion.
Jews are tribal. Tribes tend to have totems. Everyone in a tribe must pay obeisance to the tribes icons, their beliefs, and their world view. No one but the tribe can ever truly understand the world view to which everyone must attend — on pain of death. This includes members of the tribe and all others not of the tribe. Most icons have a deeper meaning. Conscious missing of the mark is not worthy of redemption.
Is it possible to get along? We had better learn or we are doomed. We need to admit our tendencies to succumb to the need for certainty. We must talk. We must speak against tyranny.
The history of the Jews did not emerge all of a piece. Jewish history as presented is false. It is easily falsified. Read the books Ron Unz quoted in his essay. It took me most of my life to sort out my confusion about my Jewish nature. Sadly I gradually discovered my father was right to keep me away from being contaminated by any association with Jews. There is no righteousness among Jews.
Judaism is a strange phenomenon, a kind of intricately woven evil. It makes me wonder if Satan really exists, with Judaism his manifestation on earth.
AGAIN! Israel is NOT “deliberately targeting non-combatant and non-military facilities and people“.
Israel is targeting Hamas, who happens to HIDE among civilians and has operations in places like hospitals and schools.
The 3rd Mrs. Ernest Hemingway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Gellhorn
Whatever and who cares? Jaffee has no agency. Nothing will change. Israel will not be disassembled. Life will continue on while you all play the skin flute.
Life’s a bitch and then you die.
A Bible verse by St. Paul:
For you suffer the same things from your compatriots as they did from the Jews,
who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and persecuted us; they do not please God, and are opposed to everyone,
trying to prevent us from speaking to the Gentiles that they may be saved, thus constantly filling up the measure of their sins. But the wrath of God has finally begun to come upon them.
Lol,
here is Netanyahu doing it again just a couple of days ago:
It may be helpful to see the organization’s definition of the term ‘holocaust victim’ because, as regards the compensation fund, a victim can simply be any Jewish person that was alive during the years of the Reich
Snowball (Trotsky) was the Scapepig, rather than scapegoat.
Even Karl Marx seems to have had a similar and complementing opinion about Jews:
Listening to the usual hysteria of the lying Zionists and their legacy media and political whores is no-longer a problem to me because I have divorced myself from that rubbish with the simple flick of a switch.
But the Jews cannot divorce themselves from the Zionist for some reason and as such are complicit in their crimes…so the next time a Jew calls you anti-Semitic call them Semitic child killers.
And next time I pull a product off the shelf and it says product of or made in Israel…well it goes back on the shelf.
If we are serious about a new world then you have to walk the talk!
Strive for peace, Ann Nonny Mouse.
Much of the world is in an emotional frenzy provoked by the ghastliness of the deliberate killing of Palestinian children. So blatant.
I recall when the Rwanda genocide was news. I forced myself to remain on the couch and watch as bulldozers shoved uncountable numbers of bodies into graves. The image is in my mind sharper than the photo of my children.
On other thing — yesterday I started reading Richard Overy’s The Bombers and the Bombed, about the Allied air war against Germany (and Italy, France, and Hungary). Overy’s reporting is heavily biased — the British and American pilots were victims; the civilians on the ground who were killed by their miles-high bombs — well, foolishly, they got in the way. Wrong place wrong time. tut tut.
They bombed Rome. They dropped bombs on Florence, Italy, aware that a wind in the wrong direction might destroy Brunelleschi’s dome — they got lucky. They dropped bombs on the Vatican. The Monastery at Monte Cassino was bombed again and again under the mistaken notion that Germans soldiers were hiding there — they were not: people from the nearby villages had sought refuge there. They were killed. The remaining tall walls formed a fortress where German soldiers soon DID encamp — thanks for the suggestion, Allies!. Overy traced the ways that various British decision-makers deflected responsibility for calling for the destruction of Monte Cassino. Weasly little men making exerting their weasly little power.
The air war against civilians in the world wars has taken over my brain. I can’t talk to people in any casual setting, I want to preach and demand that they share my outrage at these crimes, for which no one has been called to account for all these years.
Does any of this mitigate the evil that Jews/zionists are carrying out against Palestinians? No it doesn’t.
But reading Overy, I realized that Jews were not the only evil-doers.
And that maybe evil is not a grand delusion; not the “huge imago that makes a psychopathic god,” but the outcome of terrible small-mindedness. Of people otherwise ineffectual — like the IDF humanoids who video’d themselves smashing children’s toys in a Palestinian shop. How completely devoid of a life and any sense of dignity and manliness must one be to celebrate smashing children’s toys?
They do not rise to the stature of evil.
Call them what they are.
Cowards.
Nonentities.
Human less-than-zeroes.
Wasraelis.
So the Jews are Satan’s Chosen People, right?
See 177.
So from Trotsky financing the Bolshevik takeover in November of ’17, which you term as ridiculous; you immediately jump off well beyond the Urals in attempt to buttress YOUR ridiculous denial of gold payments to rioters and side-switching military elements used to pull off the Bolshevik terror.
I wonder about the ethno sympathies of Jamie Bisher. Sources can be used any which way, including for the purpose of misleading.
BTW “the Russian civil war” began AFTER the Bolshevik takeover. There was essentially no significant opposition from the multifarious Kerensky politicians and their handfuls of supporters who were actually willing…and able…to take up arms against the evil ones.
I believe the same sentiment has being shared since the 7th with a lot of Jews all over the world.
Towelheads, of course, stick to their sentiments.
The combo above is quite promising re serious, prolonged, conventional warfare in the M.E.
Fingers crossed.
Meanie JooJoo. You are a baldfaced liar. What is it about Talmudists who have literally no conscience as they lie, steal, cheat and murder the innocent?
Did your evilness begin when the Mohel sucked you off immediately following the Unkindest Cut. Do you suppose he enjoyed the teste of the blood of a (then) innocent infant?
Thanks. I hadn’t realized how outrageous Jewish settler behavior in Palestine was in those early decades. In fairness though, I think it’s also good to point out that Jews and Palestinians are very closely related genetically, so Jews were lesser interlopers in Palestine than Anglos were in North America. In any case, the modern Israeli leadership deserves to get hanged in The Hague for their more recent actions.
By the way, Wikipedia doesn’t mention the ethnic cleansing of the East European Germans on its list of massacres that took place in Poland. You’d expect at least a couple of the constituent death marches from the largest ethnic cleansing in history to appear there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Poland
But it does list “Intelligenzaktion”, the alleged Nazi policy of murdering Polish intellectuals. However, according to John Wear, the Allies didn’t prosecute the Nazis for this murderous policy at Nuremberg, so it must have just been another hoax.
Hamas did NOT start this conflict. Cooped up within a barbed-wire enclosure, particularly for those descendants of refugees who lived in a nearby settlement, who can actually look beyond that restricting wire barrier to actually see their stolen ancestral home…can one then condemn them for lashing out at their oppressors?
TKK: You are obviously a Talmudist supremacist and keep making excuses for the worst genocide in the Western world in numerous decades…a deliberate targeting of doctors, journalists and UN assistance organizations…that on top of massacring thousands of non-combatant women, children and elders.
What is it that warps you into those exclusionist, supremecist beliefs? Why do you hate all the rest of the human race and tend to destroy us if you are unable to make us your slaves?
When the Mohel chopped off your man-hood in order to make you a fear-dominated follower of Talmudist doctrines and dogmas…something truly human was also severed from your consciousness.
You people are clinically psychopathic and utterly insane. You will have nightmares. Many will curse you. The longer the genocidal process, the more enemies you will make. There is no security for those whose existential fears engender hatred and erases love for the other.
Your excuse-laden apologias will only disgust those who seek liberty and justice for all. Believe me, Talmudists will not always be in the proverbial drivers’ seats. Karma is a bitch and Kali makes her look tame.
This is helpful in understanding the psychotic fuckedupness of Jews diverting attention from actual Izzie genocide with Jewy mass hysteria over fabricated and hypothetical incitement.
The delusion of persecution IS the war propaganda. The pretense of fear IS the war propaganda. Jews made World War II all about them with fabricated extermination camps, and used that to justify Israeli extermination of indigenous peoples. In exactly the same way, Jews are now using imaginary persecution to justify and even sanctify Israeli extermination in Gaza.
This is exactly what Article 20 prohibits – organized advocacy of hostility, discrimination, and violence constituting war. Judaism is a religious cult claiming to be so fucking neurotic that scores of thousands of protected persons have to die to calm Jews down.
I’m coming around to viewing synagogues as mental asylums full of John Wayne Gacys and Jeffery Dahmers and Elaine Wornoses and Charlie Mansons and Ted Bundys all bouncing off each other. No wonder young sane Jews flee their family freak show.
Collective consciousness becomes collective (bad) conscience with the Zionazis. This genocide, Nakba II as various Zionazis have admitted, even boasted, was clearly planned in all details.
The phony ‘escape’ from the Gaza internment camp, the massacres by the IDF blamed on the Gazans, and all Palestinians, the outrageous atrocity lies, so ludicrous that they constitute a loyal subservience test for Western politicians and MSM, the vicious slandering of those who oppose Zionazi depravity as ‘Jew-haters’, the diabolical barbarity of the onslaught, the driving of Gazans towards the Sinai, the coincident massacres and pogroms on the West Bank-all meticulously planned, just like 9/11.
At the same time in Hungary at the age of 14, George Soros was participating in looting the property of Jewish families.
Soros later wrote that 1944 had been the happiest year of his life.
Needless to say, we are all happy for you, Georgy.
No one quite like RU. A genuine truth teller and man of conscience.
Another fan-boy for mass child murder. It has really revealed just how rotten to the very core of their being Zionazis truly are. He believes in the Nazi Judeocide, most definitely. He has made it his model to emulate. Another example of the psychopathic transference from the German Nazis to their victims and imitators, the Judaic Zionazis.
As always, Mr. Unz, well done. And I notice a growing amount of mordant humor, which I do appreciate.
LOL. I assume the people at the organization believe that only an antisemitic person would ask such a question 🙂
And you are guilty of the same Academic FAKE claims. I am often deeply shocked that even PHDs in History completely ignored the HISTORY of Palestine prior to 1948. They ignored that even according to the Bible, the Philistines/Palestinians ancestrors were in those lands for thoudand of yeras BEFORE the jews. The jewish Biblical myths sustains that God commanded Abraham to go into Canaan the Land of the Philistines, Israel was NEVER a state/country jews were members of Tribes, so all EVIDENCE archeologial/antrhplogical/Academic/Historical/genetics/DNA prove that Palestinains were the original inhabitants to the Lands of Canaan.Irobically most jews in Israel today have NO DNA/Historical links to the jews in Palestine, 99% of Israeli jews were born in Europe/Russia/Gremany/America/NYCity..etc.
Re FAFO:
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/the-tyranny-of-battle-drill-6/
Your side took the wisdom above very well, so far. Hopefully they’ll keep it in months, one could hope even years, to come.
The problem is that, once in a frenzy of blood-lust, the worst of the Jews are very difficult to restrain. After all, their ‘religion’ defines killing civilians, children, even babies, and the genocide of whole populations (eg Amalek) as ‘mitzvot’ or good deeds. In fact the death-toll in Gaza has not, yet, reached the extent of that in Beirut in 1982.
Sure, many require further stimulus to enjoy the slaughter or simply ignore it, hence the lurid atrocity lies, but for the Talmudists, the secular racists and fascists and sundry psychopaths, the butchery is delightful. I did read long ago an ultra-orthodox savage attacking other Judaic religious leaders in Israel, because, as he said, they would be useless when the time came to drive the Palestinians into the gas-chambers.
Needless to say, I was gobsmacked, and doubted its veracity, it being so ludicrously ironic, if that word is powerful enough, and have never seen it reported anywhere else, since. I wonder if anyone else is familiar with it, and its credibility, or not.
Yes, you are right, and I am one of them.
However, as far as I am concerned, I was chosen for a role that nobody wants: I was born in a dysfunctional family, slightly autistic, have never had any real friends or any sexual relationship, have never experienced a feeling of well-being, have never had a decent job, have never enjoyed a vacation or weekend, have never been treated well by any boss or coworkers, and the list goes on and on.
My question to Satan: What the fuck have you chosen me for, asshole?
Take a look an the ancient Carthography dating back to about 5Kyrs ago..those maps labels read PALESTINE..The ancient Biblical maps called those lands PALESTINE.the ancinet Bedouins nomads traders/arab/muslims/Africans/ as far as the Mongols/Chinese called those lands PALESTINE..the Macedonians/Geeks/Carthage/Vikings/Romans/Persians/Romans/Ottomans/Turks UK/USA/Europeans Spanish/Portuguese explorers called and label their maps those lands PALESTINE….Israel is a fake/synthetic/fabricated/ ENTITY..based on fake Biblical citations..Even The Torah says that only and only their Moschiac will take the jews to their promised land..NOT the Zionists..
https://israelinewslive.org/our-channel/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=iLILJvfo8nM
The hardest thing for me to understand is why Arabs don’t stick up for each other.
Has there been a unifying and inspiring leader like Nasser after he died?
Most Arab leaders alarmed other Arab countries. Hussein and Gaddafi weren’t popular with a lot of Arabs.
And look at the divisions in Syria that the West exploited to set off a war there.
Many dissident rightist types are hardly better. They are rubbing their hands in glee over the mass slaughter of Palestinians as a golden opportunity to win Jews over to the right that signals it’s A-OK with killing countless Arab women and children.
And some of them are cheering on Jewish oligarchs using their financial muscle to have college presidents fired. Not that these college presidents are deserving of respect, but removing them won’t change a thing as it’s just one more example of Jewish Power using whatever means to silence and cancel people they don’t like.
Rightist dissidents may delude themselves that the dismissal of such figures spells victory for the right, but it’s just another case of the same old actors pulling the same old stunts.
Not long ago, Jewish money used those very presidents to suppress white voices but now those president must go because, for the very first time in their lives, they stood for something resembling principle by allowing speech and expression denouncing the Zionist genocide of Palestinians. They didn’t get canned for their support of cancel culture but because, finally at last, they showed some real courage and convictions.
White right idiots think the cancellation of those anti-white presidents is a win for their side, but it’s just another win for the Jewish Power side as the only reason they were removed is they displeased Jewish big donors. White idiots cheering on super-rich Jews deciding who gets to be college presidents is a hilarious but pathetic sight to see.
“highly civilized people”
only if running around naked, shooting arrows at each other, and living in holes in the ground covered with animal skins
is “highly civilized”. Face it: the white conquest of North America was an amoral power struggle which the much more “highly civilized” Whites won….
….until recently: now the Jews and their imported shitstain stormtroopers are winning.
For centuries,their Talmud religion has ‘cleansed’ Jews of all empathy for anyone non-Jewish. That is the definition of psychopathology. No wonder all the cultures they ‘parasited’ eventually expelled them.
Thank you you’re right.
The Jewish bible writes of Philistines. Greek and other historians wrote of Phoenicians Romans called the province Palestine. The ByzantineEmpire called it Palestine. So did the Turk empire and mongóis. The Arab Muslim conquerors called it Palestine. So did the Europeans
And so did the Zionists.
I’m afraid the Palestinians are losing this round. In the last few days Jews have captured towns and Hamas bases in Gaza.
Mocking their army, Israel commentators call out fake ‘Hamas surrender images’
https://alethonews.com/2023/12/11/mocking-their-army-israel-commentators-call-out-fake-hamas-surrender-images/
Israeli observers and journalists accused the occupation army spokesman, Daniel Hagari, of lying by fabricating pictures and videos showing alleged members of the Al-Qassam Brigades’ Elite Forces surrendering.
Most highlighted that many of those shown in the pictures were elderly men in their 60s and not young fighters in their prime who would normally make Elite Forces.
Ori Goldberg, researcher at the Interdisciplinary Centre- Herzliya, said in a series of posts on X yesterday: “After reports of terrorists who turned themselves in, it turned out that these were groups of men who were arrested and taken from compounds where hundreds of Gazans were seeking refuge, together” to escape the bombing by the occupation army.
According to Goldberg: “To win a guerrilla war, you need clear goals and clear political guidance. Otherwise, the war breaks down into endless incidents and explosions and operations and assaults and does not come together for a decision. The IDF can fight for 18 years in Gaza, as in Lebanon, and the war will not end until the political echelon calls for its end. There are no clear goals and no clear guidance.”
Bibi’s ” government ” is ready for regime change as the truth comes out.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article220118.html
There is your justification and it is a justification shared by many, many Jews. History through does not favour the Zionist claims to Israel. Argue if you want but the Balfour Resolution did not give the Jews all of Israel. The British provided the force of arms to legitimate and enforce Jewish immigration into Palestine — and they used it. Remember though the Resolution did not give the Jews the entirety of Israel. The Jews stole it. The Jews murdered Palestinian men, women, and children long before 1948.
Well in my view Jews established illegitimate control over all of Israel using force of arms. Now Jews are using force of arms to exterminate the Palestinians. Foolishly Jews are establishing a precedent. No longer will Jews successfully claim the moral high ground. Jews had the benefit of the doubt until the 2023 Nakbah. Few in the world knew what the Jews promulgated in 1948. The ‘catastrophe’ refers to the violent displacement and dispossession of Palestinians, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. 500 Palestinians villages were destroyed. 7000,000 thousands Palestinians were displaced.
The trope that because the Palestinians did not accomplish what the Jews accomplished in Palestine this justifies exterminating them. Of course if you steal a million dollars from me it is likely you will build a family at my expense while I may be homeless as a result.
Of course money from the U.S. had nothing to do with the Jews’ success in the land they stole, did it?
Throughout history Jews were welcomed into different lands occupied by others. But soon the Jew begins to exploit, steal, rape, deceive, cheat, rob their erstwhile hosts. This is the nature of the Jew. Their survival always depended on being able to move to other places where they were not well known — and if they were recognized they deployed the Jewish lie. “They didn’t like us. We did nothing.”
I’m afraid the Palestinians are losing this round.
This isn’t about palestinians;
Palestinians are the first line, this is about Al Aqsa mosque and two billion Muslims who are gonna come in hordes Genghis Khan style ‘n bite your Jew ass.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-11/ty-article/.premium/israel-should-know-by-now-the-perfect-victory-image-doesnt-exist/0000018c-5a32-db23-ad9f-7afa757e0000
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-11/ty-article/.premium/six-reserve-soldiers-killed-in-combat-in-gaza-another-dies-in-car-accident/0000018c-59d6-d6bd-a1ad-7bd6cd040000
Isn’t that what the sign said over Auschwitz?
Evil not done to Jew/Yid.
Jew/Yid perpetrators of evil.
5ds
More Nakba
[The hardest thing for me to understand is why Arabs don’t stick up for each other.] This requires understanding that criminals are criminals because they commit crimes, irrespective if justice comes to their victims. That is, also understanding the nature of power, of crime, criminality, justice: in terms of psychology, sociology, social-psychology, morality, the nature of amoral, law, amoral law, history of law, and what absence of law means when this happens, as was Palestine especially during British Mandate [& how that came to be] and since, etc.
Nakba in English loosely translates as Catastrophe. More than century of Nakba ongoing in Palestine.
British Military Occupation of Palestine ended with UNGA Partition Resolution 181: How many hundreds of thousands of troops would have been needed to implement 181?
Two decades later, following June 1967 War, UNSC 242: How many hundreds of thousands of troops needed to implement 242?
Why weren’t hundreds of thousands of troops marshaled to implement the 1947 plan? or the 1967 plan?
Where are the calls today, to marshal hundreds of thousands of troops to implement these ideas?
Where are the cowards of Europe, especially Britain and France, and including Russia, who created the Jewish Problem — why aren’t they ponying up the troops needed to implement this idea?
And the cowards in USA, for this idea’s implementation?
All of the above never say boo about marshaling hundreds of thousands troops needed to implement what they claimed they wanted in 1947, 1967 and since — instead run like rats; abdicate responsibility for what these governments all perpetrate: More Nakba.
You also assume or suppose that if China did a catastrophe in California a lot of Americans would secretly be happy and feel like the Californians deserved it. May I ask how much thought went into that theory?
-30-
I am afraid that the other Arab Muslim Nations as well as the Christian nations dont care either about Islam/Christians/Churches/Mosques….it s shameful the muted silence from the Vatican/Anglicans/Lutherans/Episcopelians/Orthodox greeks/Orhodos Russians/ and all the M<uslim Countries that have betrayed Islam/and Palestinians..they are the sacrifcial lambs that Muslims Arab have given to israel…to continue business as usual..Israel already announce post to demolish AL-Aqsa Mosque..Muslims will live to regret abandoning the Palestinians to be genocide…Israel will not stop until it achieves Greater israel project..
BREAKING: ISRAEL KILLS INTELLECTUALS; GAZANS PARADED NAKED; US SENDS MORE WEAPONS
It’s infuriating. I see that and I want to help, but I know that Israel will block any kind of relief that I would try to support sending in.
@palestineredcrescent
21h
Their favorite targets! Women, children, elderly and unarmed civilians..
it’s not hard to be humane… unless you’re an american or a zionist
They bombeda UN shelter a few years ago in Lebanon. Those killers would stop at nothing cause they believe the laws do not apply to them! Hence, The recent veto by America!!
Israil shot many of them.
Just EVIL !!!! 👹
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0syyVKrsex/
Footage of a Palestinian child left alone in the rubble of houses destroyed in Israeli airstrikes has gone viral.
The death toll from the Israeli war on Gaza has risen to over 18,000, most of them women and children
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0tz6hbA3EH/
BREAKING! Offices of Israeli shipping company Zim are currently being occupied in both Toronto and Montreal! Zim is the main provider of shipping services to Israel. It is active in this genocide and has transported weapons that are being used on the people of Gaza. Zim is exploiting Canadian railways and ports to fuel the Israeli war machine!
take action from home! Swipe for more details and see the link in our bio.
#ShutDownZim #CeasefireNow #StopArmingIsrael #FreePalestine #globalstrike4palestine
Global Strike for Palestine Reaches the Doorstep of the New York Times
Protestors picketed in front of the New York Times in response to calls from Palestine for a global strike.
Activists specifically called out the New York Times for their complicity in publishing Israeli propaganda and obscuring the truth about what’s happening in Gaza.
Exactly correct. Well said.
Folks, these Israeli Terrorists are actually making confessions whilst making accusations. Everything from 911 terror to all other terror in Middle East since IsraHell came into being is orchestrated by these Criminal Cabal of Murderer’s. They will continue to do so until they build their Third Temple to usher in their Anti-Christ Messiah. They are being exposed by their own evil actions.
The Matrix is Collapsing
https://www.brighteon.com/6c2b7557-2344-4ee4-8736-dcab86d7afbd
Israel Apologists Are Psychopaths by Ms Caitlin Johnstone!
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2023/12/12/israel-apologists-are-psychopaths/
I refuse to conflate the Jewish religion with the criminal activity of a government and its military, and I think it is dangerous that people insist that I should.
Israel apologists are such psychopaths. In the last few days I have seen two separate articles attacking the idea that there are innocent people in Gaza, one from The Times of Israel titled “Innocents in Gaza? Do not be naive” and another from Town Hall titled “There Are No “Innocent Palestinians””.
What kind of sick f-ck tweets something like this in December of 2023?-
Caitlin Johnstone (caitoz) December 8, 2023
Just as disturbing as seeing the endless stream of dead babies and childrens bodies blown apart by military explosives on my feed is having to read so many of my fellow humans defending these horrors in the most sociopathic ways imaginable.
One of the most braindead responses I get from Israel apologists all the time is “Just tell Hamas to surrender and this whole war ends.” Like that is a thing. Like Hamas are hanging on my every word and they will be like “Hang on you guys, one more white westerner just said we should surrender! Let us wrap it up, fellas.”
Like even if you accept the pants-on-head moronic notion that these horrors are 100% the fault of Hamas and 0% the fault of Israel and everything it has done since October 7 and prior to October 7, and even if you ignore international law which says Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against hostile occupiers while Israel has no right to launch an attack to “defend” itself against people it is occupying, this argument still makes no sense. Hamas, unlike Israel, has no political responsiveness to the demands of the west. They have no reason to listen to anything we say.
Westerners putting political pressure on our own governments to stop facilitating this nightmare absolutely does have an effect, and we are seeing more and more signs that both Israel and its western allies are getting very nervous about the mounting international pressure from the public.
No, these things are settled on the battlefield and always will be.
Thank you.
The Zionist Mafia Tribe members should be arrested and executed with their supporters located in the Western Capitals along with those who are funding this FAKE tribe with FAKE history.
Israel has NO right to EXIST
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
The genocidal zionist jews must pack and go to where they came from, now.
They are mainly from East Europe who were living around the black sea. They have NO connection to Palestine. Keep Palestine for the Palestinians who are living in their own land for centuries and are Semites. The Zionists are NOT Semite, but they use this term to silent people under FAKE ‘antisemitism’, to keep the stolen land. This is NOT acceptable to the people in the region or to the people in the World. YOU must leave now.
Biden is a partner in Genocide with Netanyahu of Palestinian people and their toddlers.
Shame on you zionist liar. Hope to go into your resting place soon, because people are fed up with your genocide in Gaza and your LIES. You are not a leader but a zionist clown.
By the way, the Gazans are still firing their rockets, still promising more attacks. The Gazan appetite for war is still unsated.
When they want war, why are you all here shedding tears?
To whom did you think you were addressing this?
I really doubt that. A lot of them came in the 1933-1939 time period, after all.
That’s right, Pretzel, the fix was not yet in and/or it never happened, certainly not as they claim it did, i.e., two tiny, wooden, peasant cottages, retrofitted into modern gas chambers with no heat mechanisms, ventilation, nor sealed windows – just little mail-drop slots to stuff in Zyklon-B tablets, and then a trench is excavated in swampland, a fire is stoked, and they toss the bodies therein, somehow collecting the human fat to baste the bodies; on a good night, a truckload of living infants arrive, and the Nazis take turns tossing them into the inferno…..did I get that right? If you think I’m lying, just have a listen to Gabbai, Tauber, and Nencel.
There is credible evidence of the destruction in Georgia. However, unlike 1939-1945, there was no aerial photography; no Red Cross witnesses; no murderous Bolshevik/Soviet forces slinking around fabricating, looting, and destroying evidence, AND battle sites and grave sites can be excavated in Georgia, as their is no convenient prohibition against disturbing Gentile graves sites….so, the comparison is ridiculous. There’s no credible evidence of the so-called Holocaust.
Is that so, Pretzel? Why don’t you tell how displaced Jews, in rather large numbers considering they had recently been exterminated, swarmed back into Germany/Austria, many fleeing the Bolsheviks that they had supported and unleashed upon Eastern Europe, to reside in hotels, ski resorts, and all manner of property ripe for Jewish real estate/speculative markets. Do the Jews ever really suffer an economic collapse? You always leave the good stuff out of your spiels….
How long does it take to determine a death count? 4-5 years? 20 years? How long does it take to cremate one body? Why didn’t Eisenhower or Churchill write on those gas chambers in their WW2 memoirs?
It was obvious to General Patton what happened in 1945, wasn’t it? I wonder why he didn’t write a WW2 memoir? Somebody made sure that would never happen.
When do the Jews ever downplay their misery? How would it be beneficial to wait? If it had happened as they later claimed, they would have been shouting from the rooftops whilst the evidence was still fresh, and all the witnesses were alive. Every Sonderkommando said – I never wanted to speak on the horror! Besides the fact that they lied through their teeth, the disparities in their stories were due to the fact that some of them were never actually in a camp.
What a load of crap. Do you cringe when you write this BS, Pretzel? Their special role was to prevent the world from knowing Hitler was right.
Why would they drag past horror/misery (cough, cough) up from their bowels after 25 years of prosperity and just getting on with their lives? Testimony should be made immediately after an occurrence, not decades later. It is NOT possible for an inmate in a camp to be unaware that the Nazis are tossing living children into an inferno, raging in a pit, dug in land with a high water table, next to the wooden barrack that they’re laying in, and yet most seem to have failed to notice these events, and if it was true, why in God’s name would they refrain from telling in 1945? Please, Pretzel, quit lying to everyone.
Because we Americans have better things to do with our money, arms and influence around the world than participation/complicity in a multigenerational ethnic struggle which has moved from periodic bouts of ethnic cleansing to war crimes and mass murder.
After mass murder and genocide in Gaza hiding behind the Holocaust is going to be a bit more difficult for Israel and its friends in the USA.
Your assertion does not justify cutting off water and electricity to the civilian population of Gaza nor depriving the Palestinians of food, fuel, medical supplies and shelter. These are war crimes, pure and simple. We Americans are being forced to fund these outrages because our political system is controlled by the donor class. Our Solons act as if Israel were part of the USA.
Are you ignoring the difference between the ICJ and ICC through intent, or ignorance?
Perhaps you’ve also missed how the Jewish Zionists (not sure what the Christian wackos are saying) are TRIGGERED by mere mention of GENOCIDE.
You know that double triangle logo on the IsraHeil flag… What’s it called? The Swastika isn’t it? IsraHeil waves swastikas everywhere? Makes sense.
The Old Testament, a Jew book (they call it the Torah) lays out clear rules about who may and who may not be raped during wartime.
“So your contention is that the victims should have been raped in a more “Jewish” fashion? When in Rome, n’est-ce pas?”
“Uh, bluh, uh, well, I ….”
What are the 4 principles of jus cogens?
Most authorities agree that the laws prohibiting slavery, genocide, piracy, and acts of aggression or illegal use of force are jus cogens laws. Some suggest that certain human rights provisions (e.g. those prohibiting racial discrimination) also come under the category of jus cogens.
Jus cogens – Oxford Reference
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100027487
Genocide and acts of aggression or illegal use of force = what Zionists have done, still are doing to the hapless natives of Palestine.
The Jeremy Hammond article referred to in 34.Loup-Bouc has some details of what UNSC processing was done, but without getting fancy, all ((they)) need to learn is:
“Don’t touch things not yours!” = one of the 1st socialisation steps of ‘bringing up baby.’ rgds
PS Let the prosecutions begin, and from the river to the sea, Palestine *must* be set free.
“The reality being the following: America fought in Europe in WWII to try to save the collapsing British Empire, which collapsed anyway”.
Not quite. From probably before 1914, the American plan was to destroy the British Empire and asset-strip it. Which was exactly what they did.
In 1920 the US Navy assumed that its first major war would be against Britain. WW2 saved it the trouble of defeating the Royal Navy, which by 1945 was dwarfed by the US Navy.
Why on earth would the US government, its leaders, or its owners, wish Britain well? From the mid-19th century they had been planning to replace it, and they were impatient. There is convincing evidence (much of it provided by Mr Unz) that the US government under FDR deliberately started WW2. It’s possible they also engineered WW1. The net result of the two wars – which weren’t really separate, but more like the two halves of a game – was to give the US elites everything they could possibly have wanted. Britain was ruined, Germany and Japan were literally reduced to rubble, and no country had an economy that could compete with the USA. Moreover the USA emerged as the greatest military and naval power, as well as the first nation to have nuclear weapons.
I’m still looking for concrete evidence that Americans precipitated WW1, but the circumstantial evidence is persuasive.
Thank you, once again, Mr Unz, for your courage and dedication to truth.
One day we may erect bronze statues in your honour! Certainly you are worthy of such recognition.
Yours most sincerely,
Kali.
It sounds like you ran yer yap far too much.
The problem isn’t your politics.
The problem is your lack of social skills.
As a case in point, look no further than your own tedious overly long post. Shut up. Be mysterious. Be kind to strangers but don’t make a big thing about it. I know you will and it will ruin it. Being kind to strangers may be too advanced at the moment but we’ll circle back to it. So shut up and be mysterious.
they are trying to kill the future pf the Palestinian people
The Russian Empire was played just like the Americans are being played today, except it’s 2023 and the Jews and their thousands of Trotsky’s, are looting the Americans before they completely destroy the country. And Central Headquarters is still NY, N Y. @ merging majority has pretty much called your bluff , so there is no need to go any further. Like I said – my wife’s text books in the Soviet Union were published by the same Tribe that published mine in the USA, that way the lies and the cover up would last.
And the old old Soviets were forcefully trained not to question authority or their government in Moscow or else they were severely punished as Soltzinitsin has written about the gulags and the other punishments. This is why the Israelis loved to have the old Soviets in their country – they were already trained not to buck the system.
I’ll Say again but for 2023, the old old AMERICANS are being forcefully trained not to question authority or their governments narratives coming from Washington or else they will be severely punished as WE can easily see with the 9/11 Gov. narrative, the Covid narrative and now the Israeli genocide narrative. Are there Gulags in the USA – well if sources are correct – just north of Fairbanks they say there is one big enough for 1 + million people. And it gets pretty cold up there in Ak. since I spent over 3 decades there. The writing is on the wall , read it before the invisible ink fades.
Suck it up and wait for Israel to finish the job of exterminating Hamas and leveling Gaza.
Were there Jews involved? If not, then no one here cares.
That is from the good old days.
Now, there is a lot of intermarriage, which is good for the genetic stock but bad for Jewish cultural cohesion. Sad…
Thanks to an honorable human of Jewish heritage. This time around, with the existence of social media and ubiquitous camera/video phones…the entire world will become well aware of the perfidy of the Talmudist Jews. Perhaps there is some hope for the Neturei Karta and other “True Torah” Jews. They are no worse than the many Christians who believe in the Yahweh/Jehovah entity.
Growing numbers of younger Jews appear to be approaching the light of understanding. Despite Chosenist programming, their innate human qualities of empathy and kindness to others, the love which the Great Spiritual Teacher, Jesus, the most famous Jew in modern history…taught to the previously deluded Yahwists…indicates that they are recovering their personal humanity.
Blessed be the peacemakers.
Your account is at odds with what I know (which is admittedly little). The orthodox Jews are known to be resistant to placing ethnic concerns above religious ones. They were anti-Zionist in the beginning, and some of them still are (these are the ones who are usually called “ultra-orthodox”). Here’s an article about this issue (it’s very old, so I don’t know whether the present scenario is somewhat different; on the other hand, your own story is from “long ago”):
Israel’s Ultra-Orthodox
https://merip.org/1992/11/israels-ultra-orthodox/
Mr. Unz’ article is extraordinary, amazing, stupendous, combing through large swaths of history, and making the most hair-raising and disturbing statements about history, all with perfect tranquility of mind.
I’m going to have trouble sleeping tonight.
Oh shut up Zip, this weak shit isn’t going to make us forget about the Israeli officials calling for genocide or the or the actual genocide talking place before our eyes.
You people lost the information war weeks ago and the battle for hearts and minds years ago. Insulting our intelligence isn’t going to change that.
You’re done, enjoy the feeling of murdering women and children while you can. Feel big while you can.
I am flabbergasted at the Finkelstein/Dershowitz debate.
THANK YOU, RON UNZ !
Excellent work, well done !
I like the Gnostic myth that the bloodthirsty narcissist of the Torah was a demon, who was vanquished by Jesus. This parallels the original legend (a fragment of which remains, expurgated, in Deuteronomy) that the supreme god, Elyon, created lesser deities for different tribes. Yahweh was the storm-god he assigned to the Midianites. He was later adopted by the nomadic goat herders of Canaan and the Sinai as their own.
Virtually all the early mainstream church fathers were unanimous in their hatred of Jews. Several denounced them as devil worshippers, perhaps influenced by the old tales and their recent revival.
The real pity of it is that you can go into any museum today with a good Middle Eastern collection and see for yourself the crude clay and bronze figurines of these various and sundry, and wholly imaginary, beings. The gods and goddesses they represent are simple expressions of human wishes, hopes, dreams, and fears, and yet they have also inspired so much cruelty and bloodshed, enabling the very worst in human nature, rather than encoraging its “better angels” to flourish.
666. An apt number of Zionists here and in Izrael. That would include quite a few non Jews.
But in reality, you can cut that number down to 100. I have a list.😆
Not only would it solve the Palestine issue but would make for a much more peaceful world.
>with most white Americans having substantial Amerindian ancestry
What exactly does that mean, Unz? — would you care to justify or quantify this statement? — the word ‘most’ definitely means more than half — what do you mean by ‘substantial’?
Or is that just more glib bullshit, like your claim that ‘in the years prior to Frank’s killing, many thousands of black men throughout the South had been lynched’?
Well, Khalidi is a highly-reputable academic specialist, and I think that’s what he said in his book. Anyway, it seems very plausible to me.
I think fewer than 100,000 Jews had arrived during the 1930s, mostly from Germany as part of the Nazi-Zionist economic partnership. Then the Second World War cut off almost all immigration for five or six years, but afterward a huge wave of Jewish “displaced persons” began arriving. For example, Leon Uris wrote his huge bestseller Exodus about this, later made into a big movie starring Paul Newman:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_(Uris_novel)
I’m sure there’s data on Jewish immigration to Palestine easily available somewhere on the Internet, so if you think what I said was wrong, just find it and show me.
Hmm. Here’s what I’d actually written:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/#comment-6308550
So I was obviously saying that most white Americans didn’t have substantial Amerindian ancestry.
You seem totally incompetent, someone with severe reading comprehension problems, or perhaps just extremely dishonest.
Forming rationalizations for slaughtering children is, without dispute, evil. You and your paymasters are evil personified. You have ceased to be members of humanity and have become outliers. You demonize yourselves with your disgusting rationales for murdering innocents.
The entire world recoils in horror before your malevolence.
I think he’s one of those deranged hindutva types. They’re as hateful and psychopathic as their Zionist role models.
Why do the Israelis and their supporters around the world aim to obviate Zionism’s original sin, the expulsion of the Palestinians? Israel created the Palestine refugee problem let them solve it by giving the Palestinians back their homes, farms, shops, etc. Why should the world reward the criminal?
I may have missed something in what you said about Ron’s occasional mistakes. What is admirable about Ron is whenever he runs into more accurate information, he doesn’t hesitate to correct himself. He owns up without much effort. Kudos to him.
“The word “other” is your best clue that Bazelon is, indeed, Jewish”
Does not seem to be any secrecy around the Bazelon family being jewish:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Bazelon
“Her family is Jewish but not especially religious; she said in an interview, “I was raised to see Judaism in terms of ethical precepts.”
These Jewish immigrants to Palestine along with the Jewish camp survivors who ended up in Western Europe constituted a large fraction of the “Six Million” – many of them must have reached out to relatives in America shortly after the war, squelching fears that they had all been murdered by the Nazis.
Has Mr Unz read Brit MP Arthur Ponsonby’s remarkable 1928 study of WW1 propaganda?
Talk about nothing new under the sun.
http://www.vlib.us/wwi/resources/archives/texts/t050824i/ponsonby.html
Just to second what others already have said- great article, Ron, once again a wealth of well researched information, no article in any media (from all mainstream “renowned” outlets to the alternativ ones) have I come across dealing with the topic in such a thorough and holistic way.
Which made me catch myself while reading/listening to it wondering half aloud when and how the state of todays “normal” journalism ever get so miserable in contrast and what it would/could be like if outlets like the NYT, TWP, Wallstreet Journal and others would actually publish works like this one….?
Let’s not forget the lack of any “decontamination procedures” for the (supposed) “gas chamber victims. There is not ONE WORD about decontamination in any of the claims made by holohoax (oops, I mean “holocaust™”) survivors.
If poison gas had been used, decontamination procedures would have been required.
One more holohoax claim bites the dust.
Oh, really? Will he finally admit he was wrong about the safety of the jabs in light of this new information?
Advance society will not have government. Break the chains. Think for yourself.
http://www.theanarchistalternative.info/index.html
This is what we do. It’s the most organic way forward to enhance human organization & cooperation.
Next Marvel superhero: footnote checker man.
Always check a few of them. With search engines it’s easy. A third of the time the best part of reading a book might be what you learn with the odd footnote lookup.
Not sure how shutting up and being mysterious could possibly amount to any kind of cultural adjustment on the JQ. The people, …. in this historical order, are the people that I thought might appreciate what is going on: Older sister (2014 – 2015). Best friend (2017 – 2022). Younger brother (2021). First cousin ( mid-November 2023).
Why do you spend time at UR? Ron Unz has cleared the air, many times now, advising us all he is dead serious about his JQ claims, and in that sincerity, is not expressing the matter in hyperbole-mode whatsoever. OK, ….so then you should judge Unz’s offerings at face value, … are the arguments rationally solid, or not? If they are solid, and Ron Unz is sincere, then we can assume that Ron Unz isn’t just undertaking this Unz Review publishing, just as a play-thing – right? Has Ron Unz ruined relationships with Jewish colleagues (or goy colleagues for that matter)? I would assume that must be true (however, it would be good to hear from Ron Unz on that, one way or the other, …. maybe for him it doesn’t work that way, …. formidable intellect or something). If Ron Unz has ruined relationships that he had invested in, all his life, because of his JQ offerings, …. maybe then he has some advice for someone like me?
Weird how you implied I was the type to be a pretend-dogooder that will just fuck things up with that attitude, so I suppose the implication there, is that you think IRL people should steer clear of me for my propensity to fuck things up socially because I am a pretend-dogooder. Look …. I think it is ‘kind’ to deign to tell the truth, about matters so large the matter affects everyone. And as well, I am pretty sure I am not a dogooder, pretend-wise or otherwise (because instead I am only a guy that thinks, for some big cultural things like the JQ, it is better to set polite discussion aside with the few you trust enough to discuss said big cultural things, more deeply, one-on-one.) What the devil are you driving at?
Thank You Mr. Unz
an excellent summation
Well said. The truth though is ugly, isn’t it?
“The main thing, the thing war is really good for, is enriching and further empowering those in Black Rock, Haliburton, Monsanto, Big Pharma and Defence, who are the real and only voices Dick Cheney, Liz Truss, Tony Blair, Benjamin Netanyahu, George Bush and that von der Leyen idiot hear when they lie that God is telling them to cause the carnage Starrs song laments!”
There is no curbing these men and women or their lust for power. It is not money they want. What they want is to be remembered. They want to be seen as important and powerful. This is how they see themselves. They jostle among their peers for a permanent place in the firmament. Pity them.
The history of man is the history of crime! There are endless slots for these aspirants to occupy. They live in gilded cages. Doomed to repeat their lives through endless eternity. They are self created fixtures of endless time. The mirror of existence only reflects themselves. They know their lines perfectly. Groundhog Day is everyday for them. They are doomed for eternity, destined to repeat the days of their lives forever. They would bring the world down around their own heads and celebrate it.
The universe is full of higher order existences where being growth continues. The power possessing beings are doomed to repeat the lives endlessly cycling and endlessly trapped on planet purgatory forever. There is no evolution for them or devolution either. There can be no redemption for them. Or real joy either.
Where’s Germany? They were the engineer’s engineers. Sad what’s happen to those once-proud people.
I’ll have a McYid.
I couldn’t agree more, Mr Ron Unz!
This commenter is either an ordinary brainwashed idiot or a dishonest retard trying to “shed new light” on the excellent article of yours.
Thank you. Please see my comment #265 further on. Modern man piles up knowledges in endless heaps. Of course they contradict. Knowledge demeans understanding while attempting to crush the wise underfoot.
Knowledges can be deployed by the power possessing addicts as a means of gaining more power. Knowledge can be deployed aggressively
by masses of mindless men and women. Understanding is not deployed. Understanding is held. Try using knowledge to explain that which you understand. We cannot give another our understanding.
We can teach our young arithmetic. We can read to them. We can help them learn. In this way they may accumulate more knowledge. But you cannot give or gift them your understanding. This is why the wise do not occupy positions of power. Neither would they want a position of power.
I have it on good authority, one Dario Gabbai, that 3,500, sometimes more, persons can be removed from a gas chamber, within about 15-20 minutes after gassing, with…..the hook end of a cane. You don’t need gloves, but the gas will make you scream – Agh! – you will then jump back, but recover quickly and get back to work. That’s the only decontamination equipment needed, apparently.
We need to get our Molochaust facts, aka Jewish fairytales, straight……a cane, a loud scream, and a reverse hop was all that was needed.
The only Arabs who liked Nassar were Nassar and his Egyptian leadership. His, Nassar’s leadership. Not all or most Egyptians.
1_The reality is that the Mohammedan invaders do not want a two-state solution because they consider the Holy Land including the Judeo-Christian Jerusalem as a Mohammedan waqf. In other words one can not blame the Judeo-Christian side for taking a strong self-defence position. We wouldn’t blame the Mohammedans if they were to defend Mecca and Madina against invaders, would we ?
2_Mr Abaza, the former head of the Egyptian Wafd party, states in the video below – among others – that if sharing is not possible one of the two sides has to vacate the place either through ” persuasion ” or force. In the latter case Egypt and Jordan will be affected.
I’m not an expert, but when people used to commit suicide with carbon monoxide (in old gas ovens, or leading a hose from the exhaust pipe into a car), iirc all that was required was to open the doors and allow fresh air into the house or car.
Hydrogen cyanide gas is lighter than air, so opening all doors and waiting should be enough to let out all the cyanide.
However it’s on record that anhydrous ammonia (itself pretty deadly) was used in US gas chambers to neutralise remaining hydrogen cyanide, but I’m not sure it was essential.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber#Using_hydrogen_cyanide
The education of our young has been intentionally dumbed down. Why? It was said by powerful people at the turn of last Century that there was no use educating more than a small elite. Powerful industrialists saw the educated as a threat to their hegemony. As well jobs in mining, manufacturing and assembly work was done far more with labor than with machines. Steel plants in 1875 employed thousands.
The curriculum was far more challenging in 1900 than it is today. But generations of teachers have themselves been taught by generations of teachers among whom today they teach a pre digested curriculum the contents of which they barely understand. Children used to be taught to read by breaking words into their phonic sounds. “Sound it out.” Of course this leads to being able to decipher increasingly difficult texts.
The whole word method is a means of restricting access to more difficult writing. Texts that hold views countervailing prevailing orthodoxies are of course discouraged. Stretching out the years one spends in school and making the markers of those years obligatory before being considered for employment has had the consequence that the labour force is stratified.
Some of the dumbest people I have ever met are degreed idiots. What is truly appalling is these overeducated dumbos imagine they are educated rather than brainwashed. Surely some of the people reading here on Unz.com have been in homes without a book in sight.
People have become replaceable parts in a giant impersonal machine. Their beliefs are mere opinions rampant. There is no appealing to reason. People who cannot reason cannot be expected to be reasonable. The masses are incapable of deciding anything for themselves. They are more or less like ants. Their choices are made for them. Sometimes by force most often by coercion. What is media but a means of coercing the masses?
Marshall McLuhan saw and elucidated for the attendant reader the essence of modern life. Famously he summed up his insight: “The medium is the message.”
Consider media from that point of view. What does media do exactly? It removes from the individual his autonomy. Media conveys attitudes we are expected to emulate. It suggests. It is insidious and infinitely repetitious. It is however the tip of an iceberg. Far more is not said than is sayable.
Our lives are lived in a stream of constant striving for approval. And its corollary, fear of disapproval.
Millions around the world are cowed. People one would expect to be appalled by our collective degeneration encourage it. Where is the outrage? It appears to me that inside each of us is a dead core.
Outwardly we appear to think but in reality we are not thinking at all — we are selecting from a limited palate. We are slaves. We dare not think. We willingly buy a TV for every room. “The medium is the message.”
How is it possible we turn on our TVs and accept that Joe Biden is President of the United States? Or in countries around the world accept that these puppets — clones of Joe Biden — they see on their TVs are worthy. Only a mass of uneducated cretins would accept these clowns! The masses have been “programmed to receive” exactly as the Eagles would have it!
We are not educated. We are brainwashed. We are indeed programmed to receive!
Its the bodies that would absorb the hydrogen cyanide in the amounts needed to achieve death that would be the problem. Handling the bodies without neutralizing the hydrogen cyanide compounds would be a major problem.
The protocols for handling of bodies of the executed would be far more detailed than is claimed by so-called “holocaust ” promoters.
Where is the tattoo?
Why America destroyed British Empire plus French and Portuguese African mid east empires .
You are correct that America wanted to destroy the British empire for economic gain. And other empires too. Definitely not for liberty and equality.
Going back to the first Portuguese colonies more than 500 years ago ; the economic arrangements between the Imperial country and the colonies. Applied to all European colonies
The colonies sold raw materials to the imperial country. And bought manufactured products from the imperial country. It wasn’t bad for the colony. As the colony had a steady market at steady prices for its products commodities . And were protected from the ups and downs, often disastrous downs of commodity prices. It was good for sub Saharan Africans and American Indians.
Not so good for Indian Indians and European colonists who were capable of manufacturing finished goods from their raw materials themselves. That was a major reason for the American revolution.
Another problem was that the imperial country forbade other countries to trade with its colonies. If other Europeans wanted to buy say, Virginia tobacco, furs lumber etc they had to buy it from England. Or American gold silver and cocão had to be bought from Spain. Indian Indian rice, cotton and other products from Britain which is also why European countries always fought for colonies.
End of WW2 much of Africa and mid east was still European colonies. And America could not sell our manufactured products to those countries. One example coke pepsi nehi and other soda companies. Africa and mid east are hot, filthy diseased water lots of Muslims not supposed to drink alcohol. A great market for soda. And everything else from pots and pans to cars tractors etc.
President John Kennedy really pushed our dearest beloved ally and mother country Britain to get out of Africa. To ensure liberty and freedom for Africans to buy American soda. And sell cocão directly to Hershey. That’s what America really was after: freeing British French Dutch and Portuguese colonies for free trade mostly with America.
The British were so eager to destroy Germany they cooperated. And destroyed its empire in the process. Even lost its oldest colony, Ireland. But kept its Caribbean banks. And still has the Commonwealth for what it’s worth.
You might want to read the substack article William M. Briggs has written about this subject – and the remarks, blogger eugyppius has made about Briggs’ findings on his substacka dn on X.
Bottom line: At most a close-to-nothing-burger, if not a full blown nothingburger alltogether.
– Or look at Iceland and/or Swedish data***: The increasing life-span and the extremely low number of excess deaths there for 2021/2022 esp. (Sweden is highly vaccinated – 73% – (booster rate: 90%+).
***at Orwell2024 substack and on his X thread.
Willima M. Birggs tweeted on Dez. 11th – –
My thread on the leaked New Zealand vax data analysis shows in one hour, which blog and SS are posted.
Prediction: I make nobody happy.
I answered his post on X:
·
11. Dez.
“detectable mortality signal” – that sounds as if it might not amount to much. – It sounds as if at worst there might be a weak correlation for a young age group in NZ and Germany where we might (!) see – .h.o.w. .m.a.n.y. ca. – in simple numbers? – half a dozen deaths for NZ?
Btw. – if Scott Atlas, Jay Bhattachasrya and Martin Kulldorff are right about the damaging effects of lockdwons we might well have one of the reasons for increasing death numbers.
Related: Ron Unz’ article about vaccine safety problems and the damages done by obesity
“Hamas started this war. ”
Absurd.
BTW, Million thanks to Ron Unz for calling out the Bazalon family.
(To give myself credit, I am quite that I have cited the Russo books and the dirty line from Bazalon to the Pritzkers and Obama more than once on this blog.)
Note that only the white woman, Liz Magill of Penn, had to resign so far. It was just announced today that the black president of Harvard, Claudine Gray, will keep her job. Sally Kornbluth, the Jewish president of MIT, is still employed as of this writing. Isn’t that interesting?
And you’re correct about the so-called “dissident” right. Just read Jordan “Give ’em Hell Bibi!” Peterson’s screed denouncing the college presidents and campus antisemitism. He’s frothing with indignation. You can practically see the flecks of spittle on the screen as you read:
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/blog/the-jews-today-and-you-tomorrow/
I’ve never seen him get this worked up over anti-whiteness in colleges. In fact, every time the concept of “whiteness” was brought up, he would sermonize on the evils of tribalism and “collective victim mentalities”…Peterson has followed this up with an essay arguing that Iran is ultimately to blame for what’s unfolding (Peterson has called for going to war with Iran before):
1_The reality is that the Mohammedan invaders do not want a two-state solution because they consider the Holy Land including the Judeo-Christian Jerusalem as a Mohammedan waqf. In other words one can not blame the Judeo-Christian side for taking a strong self-defence position. We wouldn’t blame the Mohammedans if they were to defend Mecca and Madina against invaders, would we ?
That is correct, and it is the fault of the Jews for trying to appease them, because there is no appeasement and they do not want a state. They want Israel gone, and all Jews eliminated, because if one Jew is alive they know their claim to the Holy Land is fake. All Jews must be eliminated. Sharing is an insult because they believe it belongs to Islam.
It says in the Koran, the Torah and the New Testament. It says in Genesis, that Israel is Issac’s inheritance. The descendants of Isaac’s inheritance. Hashem said that he would make a great nation out of descendants of Ishmael, and Hashem gave them all of Arabia, with vast oil wealth. But Israel is the inheritance of the Jews, and they know it. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran, it is Mecca and Medina, and Mohamed never set foot in Jerusalem, or Israel. It is time for the Jews to stand up and say no to the two state solution, More like a 3 state solution. The West bank becomes part of Jordan, Gaza is administered by Egypt or other Arab nations. Trying to appease just gives credence to their false claim. A state to the Islamist means Israel. It means replacing Israel. All of Israel is the inheritance of Issac’s descendants. And all of Islam knows it, They just use it as an excuse to eliminate the Jews. It will not work. Israel will eliminate Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. And the world will thank them, and a new dawn will emerge in the ME. All of the Suni Arab countries want to move on with a peaceful Israel for peace and prosperity, tourism etc. Enough with this death cult.
To prove my point. Ron knows it also, that is why he needs to side by side it with the Holocaust the trigger for all Jew haters and Jihadist. He needs that seed of Jew hatred to bloom. What better way than mentioning the Nabka and the Holocaust. Go Ron.!! Ron and Kevin are so clueless. Kevin is hoping that the destruction of Israel with be the begging of the fall of the West. LOL Kevin. The west is not going to live under Islamic law, Sharia Law, where women cover themselves. Wait till they see what is coming. Israel is going to track every leader down who is in Doha.
According to Imam Muhammad Al-Hussaini, traditional Islamic commentators from the 8th and 9th century onwards, such as Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, have uniformly interpreted the Qur’an to say that the Land of Israel has been given by God to the Jewish people as a perpetual covenant.
Listen to a brilliant sage Manis Friedman tell it like it is. For whatever reason the people on UR need to denigrate the Jews and Israel, must relieve endorphins or something to get high.
No links or titles that could help narrow the search for these documents?
Sad? What good is cultural cohesion if the race declines in intelligence and health?
You sound like a crazy deluded Islamist, pissing in the wind. Israel is not going to be finished off by televised genocide. The Arabs genocide each other with impunity, They never distinguish civilians from fighters, that is why you never see Arabs take other Arabs as hostages what is the point. Did the televised Assad murder of 500,000 of its citizens stop him?
Only Islamist play mind games with the hostages knowing that the Jews care for its citizens far more than Islamist do. You do not see moral clarity in that? You do not see immoral clarity in the Hamas fighters hiding in tunnels while the Gazan people are being killed so they can live? It should be morally speaking the other way around. The citizens should be in the tunnels and the Hamas fighters fighting above ground. The tunnel dwellers steal all the food and supplies also.
What is moral clear or right from wrong in your world?
Love Ron Unz, but sure wish he would write shorter articles!
In the half-hour I read, I found more Jews than you can shake a stick at …
myself, a former Jew
Ron
Norman Finkelstein
Joan Friedman
Noam Chomsky
Phil Weiss
Amy Goodman
Alan Dershowitz
Jeffrey Sachs
David Samel
Reads like an NPR announcer list
only the weak Rashid Khalidi representing the “other side”
And yes, Dershowitz OBVIOUSLY got his vaunted sense of truth and justice from Bazelon.
I don’t think any international player expected to see Israel do what they’ve (you’ve) just done. Sure we heard about Saddam tipping babies out of the incubators but it was all a bunch of lies. Now we have seen what Israel is made of.
Israel is one, my dear.
1:40:00
No one will forget or forgive.
Apparently the number of Jews who moved from Europe to Palestine between 1939 and 1948 was 110,000:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/aliyah-bet-1939-1948
But Palestine’s overall Jewish population was slightly over half a million by 1948. So, it doesn’t appear to have been anywhere near a majority.
By the way, Ron, I know that you unfortunately got badly burned by giving $500,000 to Greg Cochran in the past, but I have a charitable proposal for you where your money could be put to better use:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/desperate-parents-10-year-old-11133679
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/lifestyle/health/family-brave-conjoined-twins-appeal-help-raise-75k-separate-57196/
If I myself had that kind of extra cash to spare, then I would gladly help them out, but unfortunately I myself am nowhere near a millionaire. You yourself are quite rich, though, are you not?
I hate to make a personal appeal like this, but it’s not on behalf of either myself or anyone whom I know, but rather for two sympathetic girls whom I have heard and read about on the news and who live in the Philippines.
Are you referring to braindead like this:
https://www.unz.com/jcook/how-israel-uses-an-ai-genocide-program-to-obliterate-gaza/#comment-6307041
or this:
or this:
or maybe this pants-on-head moron:
Three guesses what pants-on-head braindead moronic psychopath posted these.
I must say that I got a frisson of , if not joy then satisfaction, from reading of the Polish MP who snuffed out a Hannukah candelabrum in the Polish Parliament with a fire extinguisher. To have such a symbol of Judaism burning as Gaza also is swallowed in flames, and in your Parliament, is a symbol of Sabbat Goy servitude, courtesy of the vile Chabad Lubavitcher movement, that sees the goyim as lesser beings, as repulsive. If Israel was at peace with humanity, that would be another thing, but today, as the slaughtered children pile up, it is an obscenity.
see my No. 284 above – the answer to my original comment –
and see this tweet and the answer*** to it and irts predecessors:
****in the answer is a link to Ron Unz’ vaccine-safety article
It’s not ‘caring more’ for its hostages, you God-awful hypocrite. How does the Hannibal Procedure, the deliberate killing of hostages by the Zionazi regime show ‘care’? The ‘mass Hannibal’ on October 7, where IDF helicopters firing Hellfire missiles obliterated Jews and Palestinians alike, how is that ‘care’ you race-hating monster? Your Zionazi ‘moral clarity’ puts Heydrich to shame.
We see here why Melanie is so deranged and bloodthirsty. Reality means NOTHING to her. A series of fables concocted by psychopathic Jews over the centuries is reality for this insane monster. Forget International Law, substitute Judaic Law instead. Do away with protecting civilians in wartime, and make killing them a ‘mitzvah’ or good deed.
Don’t protect children and babies-make killing them, if they would grow up to ‘oppose the Jews’ another mitzvah. And this hideous death-cult, without precedent in history in its power and duplicity, now controls humanity’s destiny. With the West under its thumb, with the US regime almost entirely staffed by Zionazi Jews at its highest level, with the US operating, still, under the Wolfowitz (a Zionazi Jew, one of the neo-conservative cabal of Zionazi Jews)Doctrine, that NO other power, not even China in East Asia, its home, may be permitted to contest US (ie Zionazi) power ANYWHERE on EARTH, ever, the Zionazis imagine that they have it sewed up, at last, just as their self-authored Holy Books always said.
And monsters like Melanie slaver over the dead children and babies. Such a ‘Holy People’, indeed.
I made a comment to you a few weeks back under a Kevin Barrett article that got censored for some reason (long and off-topic, apparently, but it was also incisive and cutting, though not cruel, anti-immigration, and probably shorter than most of your comments). So I’ll keep it even shorter here.
I know the PNW south of the border, and it’s gone shithouse nuts west of the Cascades and in liberal metro areas. I get the impression that W. Canada is as bad or worse. I said something to the effect that I would cut people off who are pro- open-borders. Drop them like a hot potato. You said, ‘try that here and see how isolated you’ll be.’
I get it. I’m on the outs with various friends in that region. Too bad, some things are not negotiable.
I asked, in that censored comment, how many of those in your circles who take the virtue of multiculturalism as a given have the integrity to say that a man can’t become a woman by taking hormones and cutting off his dick? Along the same lines:
– how many of them have the integrity to stand against ‘gender affirming’ transitioning of minors? Or men in women’s sports?
– how many of them are Covid cultists?
Just my opinion, it’s not that you need to tell people who fail the above tests to go to hell, but I do think it’s best to let them know exactly what they are unacceptably wrong about and distance yourself. Presumably some will eventually pull their heads out, and the friendship may resume. Meanwhile, I’d look for new social contacts. Cultists are rotten company.
Ha ha. Caitlan Johnstone is a little known Aus leftist writer that relatively few who is desperate to get attention but no one will give it to her..
One couldn’t take RU seroously without wondering about actual Israeli casualties caused by Hamas or IDF but I haven’t seen anything definitive which allows someone to be as positive in assertions about the “Hannibal procedure” and its rexent applicability as you have been, and
especially your description of the Israeli firing of hellfire missiles. I am open to any slander of Netanyahu and his government. Regardless of any overstatement I would at most award him a farthing damages (nd he would pay the costs). So, sources please.
Au contraire. If Hamas is hiding among the civilian population, then all must pay the price to allow Israel to chase down Hamas fighters.
Bad lighting.
Agreed. Wisdom seekers are not partial to piling up pelf, nor are they anxious to accumulate credentials and degrees. Even if a person starts out on one of those trails, the inner compromises one must make in those game-structures ultimately indicate to the conscientious and honorable ones that that well-paved superhighway is not the direction in life appropriate for them.
You should see the menorah in Gaza, it would break your heart.
There is NO “Judea-Christian” SIDE in Palestine. As Talmudist fanatics frequently spit on evident Christians; there can be no doubt that you are hereby found guilty of once again twisting the narrative.
Thank you. Well done, Sir.
Civilians do enjoy protection in wartime, WHERE POSSIBLE. But both sides have priority for chasing down the military of the opposite side and if civilians get in the way, then they are just collateral damage. This is how the legal system works.
Were this not true, then any military that chooses to hide behind civilians would be immune from attacks. Is this so difficult for you to wrap your puny mind around?
I’ll remind everyone of a famous saying often attributed to Joseph Stalin:
“the death of one man is a tragedy but the death of a million is a statistic”
This means that the higher the Palestinian casualties, the less the world will care. Hamas would do well to heed this and surrender now, if they want to end the deaths and maiming of their people.
.
I agree. But furthermore, LBJ was Jewish.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181103201448/https://orjewishlife.com/something-you-might-not-know-a-jewish-u-s-president/
“When Lyndon was a boy, his father and grandfather worked to seek clemency for Leo Frank”
https://web.archive.org/web/20190530011341/http://www.5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/
“The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.”
“FIVE DAYS after taking office in 1937, LBJ broke with the “Dixiecrats” and supported an immigration bill that would naturalize illegal aliens, mostly Jews from Lithuania and Poland.”
“Historians have revealed that Johnson, while serving as a young congressman in 1938 and 1939, arranged for visas to be supplied to Jews in Warsaw, and oversaw the apparently illegal immigration of hundreds of Jews through the port of Galveston, Texas….”
“According to historian James M. Smallwood, Congressman Johnson used legal and sometimes illegal methods to smuggle “hundreds of Jews into Texas, using Galveston as the entry port.”
“According to Gomolak, Novy and Johnson then raised a very “substantial sum for arms for Jewish underground fighters in Palestine.” One source cited by the historian reports that “Novy and Johnson had been secretly shipping heavy crates labeled ‘Texas Grapefruit’ – but containing arms – to Jewish underground ‘freedom fighters’ in Palestine.” ”
etc.
Note how both links have been relegated to the Wayback Machine. Save and share!
Actually, I’m not that fast a reader. It probably takes me three hours or sometimes even four hours to read 100 pages, since I never try to rush myself.
But Palo Alto has dozens of small parks, many of which are pretty quiet most of the time. So unless it’s raining or especially cold, I often spend my days in one of them, reading and sometimes writing.
Actually, you missed a few: Emily Bazelon, David Bazelon, Michael Neumann, Dan Kurzman.
Though to be fair, quite a few of the other books I briefly discussed had Gentile authors.
Just go to the Grayzone. Max Blumenthal and others have discussed it in numerous videos.
Something like 100 Israeli cars were incinerated by Apache Hellfire missiles, probably with nearly all of them either driven by Israelis or with Israeli hostages inside. Israeli eyewitnesses who survived have reported that all the other hostages in their group were killed by tank shells or Hellfire missiles, and all the destroyed buildings in the Kibbutzim show that sort of damage. A police station was seized by Hamas and totally destroyed by Israeli shells, killing all the Hamas fighters and also the captured police officers. An Israeli general whose base was seized by Hamas explained that he hid in a blast-proof basement shelter and then called in airstrikes to kill all the militants and also all his own troops whom they’d captured.
Some Israeli commander explicitly described what had happened as a “mass Hannibal” situation.
There’s no way of knowing the exact numbers, but based upon all those documented facts, my guess is only about 200 unarmed Israeli civilians were killed by Hamas fighters, perhaps even as few as 100. I wouldn’t even be surprised if almost half the Israeli soldiers were also killed by the IDF.
Jew Suss rather than Jud Suss. Au Contraire about the lighting. Oppenheimer is depicted in the most positive light possible. Absolute Blackout.
I’m not convinced at all that 2000 Arab gunmen could kill 1,700 opposing people (some armed some unarmed, with increasing IDF aerial support through the hours event) in 48 hours. A lot of that had to be hysterical over reaction by trigger happy pilots and panicking garrison commanders calling in fire on their own positions.
“the death of one man is a tragedy but the death of a million is a statistic”
[This means that the higher the Palestinian casualties, the less the world will care.]
Then why is your FAKE 6M in hollohoax kept holy for such a long time that no one can touch it? Why is this fake number getting more important as time goes by for them, idiot? Why the Jewish mafia tribe does not care less? knowing that your history is F for FAKE, FAKE, FAKE, FAKE.
Make your fu*king mind. Why isn’t your FAKE hollohoax a statistic yet? Why do you present it as real for ever? Why do you still crying wolf with FAKE slogan like “never again” idiot?
With all due respect I think I’ll just wait for the official account:
Hmm… You’re correct…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah
Perhaps I somehow misremembered what Khalidi had written or maybe he made a serious mistake. I’ll see if I can find where he made that claim in his book.
BUT this is the very core issue..and it seems that the other Arab Muslims countries really do NOT care about ISLAM/neither about the fate of Al-Aqsa Mosque..worse the Arab elites dont care about the Palestinians..in fcat they are offering Palestinians as sacrificial lambs to appease the Zionists. This position is not pnly shamefiu but I will lead to the israeli/jewish/Zio hegemony over all the Middle east. The same critique can be made about the Chrostians Vatican/Anglicans/Lutherans/Greeks/Russinas orthodox etc.
Oh P-L-E-A-S-E. There are videos from Hamas’s own Go Pro cameras. Sounds like H denial. Many people, journalist and world leaders saw the barbarity of Hamas. The sexuall assaults on women, were multi rapes where women were bleeding from their vaginas, and torture while the rapes were going on, like broken bones. Breast removal. What you want to see who shot hellfire missiles. Max Blumenthal was and is a total ass.
Keep looking for the Hannibal procedure. There is plenty of talk about went when on. The brutality of Hamas killing all of those people at the concert and the attack on the Kibbutz. What more do you need to know?
MOST jews 99% of them in 1948 had come from Europe..they were NOT aboriginal populations..
Maybe you should suit up, you know with a green bandana and get a good tunnel seat just in time for the flooding. Take pics!!
Support for common sense is appreciated. Thank you.
Thing about you Talmudist extremists: You have this habit of believing each others’ lies…and then adding to them.
Dear Melanie cannot differentiate between facts and psychopathic, wish projection, Zionazi ‘atrocity’ lies. I bet you still believe that babies were beheaded, baked in ovens, hung from clotheslines and thrown into the air to be impaled on bayonets-oops, wrong atrocity lies.
And the ‘cut off breasts’, ‘heads used for football’ etc, are all similar lies, designed to dehumanise Gazans to justify really occurring genocidal barbarity. And, boy, do I have news for you, Mel-the world doesn’t believe your lies any more. Whether that is good news, because you just love being hated, because it justifies your visceral loathing of ALL goyim, I can’t be sure, but I’ve never seen any group so intent on digging its own grave.
Of course you haven’t seen any evidence, Ooze, not with your ‘Nelson eye’ for the facts. A steady diet of Murdoch and ABC swill would complete the process. You really could try Grayzone and Max Blumenthal for a start. Then there is Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada, al Jazeera, Middle East Monitor and that’s just from Googling October 7, Hannibal Procedure. Too hard, is it, or are you afraid to be slandered as a ‘Jew hater’?
Jews have written a lot about Zionism and Palestine. There could easily be a lot more Jewish writers discussed in the article. The Palestinian Richard Hanania could also be discussed, but he’s rabidly pro-Israel. I don’t know how much of his support for Israel is sincere or due to influence from Jewish donors.
Charles Martel France:
Charles is laying it on so thick one sentence requires three brackets. But the basic point is true. The Muslims do not want peace. Neither side is willing to compromise. Both sides believe that their god has promised them mastery in Palestine.
Fran Taubman:
This only goes to show Jewish paranoia and fascination with genocide. Sorry Fran, I know the true meaning of Passover and have even read the book of Esther. When Jews claim that other people are trying to kill them, it is a justification for Jews to kill them first. When the Turks ruled Palestine, Jews were permitted to settle there. To claim that the Muslims demand “all Jews must be eliminated” is simply a fabrication, hysterical words unconnected to reality.
Fran Taubman:
Yes, you have a book that says so, don’t you? And Jews still have the condescending attitude that they are the only people in the world who know how to read, but that was 1000 years ago, so please try to keep up. I’ve read the Old Testament, Fran. Have you read the Edda? They are quite different books. Thor never told the Norwegians they were better than anybody else, and didn’t promise them any land. To the contrary, it is written
Lokasenna 22
The Norse believed the side that trained harder deserved to win, and they dared to reproach the gods if they didn’t. No mention of a chosen people.
Palestinians occupied Palestine up until 1948; this is a meaningful historic claim to the land. Jews have an ancient book, which nobody is obliged to believe.
Fran Taubman:
And there’s the problem. How much territory is that? Is that the 1948 borders? the 1967 borders? From Dan to Beersheba? From the Nile to the Euphrates? Israel has not stayed within its borders and nobody knows when its expansionism will be sated. Intentions change with capabilities. Israel has atomic bombs.
What a wonderful comment. I’m like that too.
Thank you for this article, and for all that you do.
It would not surprise me if you speculated as I have that one’s reading speed can be dominated by one’s peculiar neurology. After I graduated from university and was preparing for professional life I took, and blitzed, a rapid reading course, with very high speed and comprehension. But I soon discovered that it was not the way I was designed to read because my “fissiparous” brain as a generally applauding teacher one described it flashed all over the place and by the end of two paragraphs was likely to notice
1. that’s an odd spelling
2.That’s ungrammatical and I wonder if that reflects the logic
3.That seems inconsistent with what has been said above…. etc
A number of other aspects of my mental functioning may, I speculate, have similar causation inasmuch as delay is caused while I seek adequate certainty to accept that I know something. Examples are my problems with accents because I guess they cause me to delay deciding what I have heard. I had to give up watching Tagvart where the hero was a very Scottish detective and a Scottish gentleman tour guide with his throwaway funnies had everyone laughing but me whose brain, I surmise, was still examining the sounds. Similarly a lady with very poor eyesight would enthusiastically name a bird that she had just seen fly into the top of a tree and I, who had very good eyesight then, would struggle to see it till it was flying away from the other side of the tree. Does this make any bells even tinkle?
Thanks pending my checking the Grayzone.
I used to spend an apreciable amount of time reading Greg Cochran. You write as if there was some fall from grace at Ron’s expense. Can you please tell me more.
The JEWISH HOLOCAU$T DOGMA in a nutshell:
The Jewish Holocau$t Dogma was/is built on THE HUGE “6 million” LIE and was/is ALL MONEY DRIVEN.
The Jews excel at turning FICTION into REALITY. The HOLOCAU$T is a prime example and has become a Dogma that no one is allowed to question.
Jewish history, from their Supremacist Racist TORAH calling for the genocide of the non-Jews, AMALEK, to the HOLOCAU$T is all a pack of LIES and BS.
Leading archaeologist says Old Testament stories are fiction
ABRAHAM, Jacob, Moses, King David, and King Solomon in all his splendour, never existed, a 15-year study of archaeological evidence has concluded. Exodus never happened.
INDEPENDENT, Sunday 28 March 1993
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/leading-archaeologist-says-old-testament-storeis-are-fiction-1500431.html
Germany is still paying and will be paying for a long time to come for the HOLOCAU$T that never happened, since the “agreement” forcing Germany to pay for “Nazi Crimes” was signed in 1952.
THE JEWISH CHRONICLE, September 13, 2022, exposing the REAL REASONS for “Holocau$t reparations”:
https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/all/the-70th-anniversary-of-the-german-reparations-agreement-gives-little-cause-for-celebration-6h2u7Z5ThLNfP6cRKxVEvh
The 70th anniversary of the German Reparations Agreement gives little cause for celebration
Israel needed money to build the state – but the price was helping Germany to rehabilitate itself
That Israel agreed to receive reparations from Germany had nothing to do with forgiving the Germans, and everything to do with securing the survival of the Jewish state.
Accepting reparations from Germany signified the victory of the needs of the state over individual feeling.
Nahum Goldmann, Israel’s chief negotiator, called the agreement “a downright salvation” for Israel. It was: German deliveries were a huge push toward the industrial development of the Israeli economy and laid the foundations for the high-growth, high-tech [stolen US technology] Israel of today.
Holocau$t reparations were/are needed to pay for Israel’s infrastructure.
THAT is why the Holocau$t Dogma is not to be questioned! There would be such a huge backlash against the Jews were the people to find out about “THE HUGE 6 million LIE”.
The Jewish Gangsters WANT THE MONEY and will destroy and jail anyone questioning and exposing THEIR HOLOCAU$T DOGMA = MONEY GRABBING SCHEME.
Norman Finkelstein the Jewish-American political scientist published his book ‘The Holocaust Industry’ in 2000 and by then the German government had already paid Israel $60 BILLION.
Norman Finkelstein: “Much of the literature of Hitler’s Final Solution is worthless as scholarship, the field of Holocaust Studies is replete with nonsense if not sheer fraud.
Given the Nonsense that is turned out daily by the Holocaust industry, the wonder is that there are so few skeptics”.
Finkelstein’s parents were in Maidanek and Auschwitz and his mother made the comment:
“With so many survivors who actually did Hitler kill?”
The German government must by now have paid Israel close to a $100 BILLION, if not more, and will be paying Israel for a long time to come.
How trauma suffered by Holocaust survivors has affected the next generation
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/holocaust-survivors-children-psychological-impact-trauma-1.6489378
Study of Holocaust survivors finds trauma passed on to children’s genes
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes
The reparations programs are generally structured in a way that the payments are limited to Jews, even though there were millions more non-Jews who were victims of the German camps and prisons. Recently there have even been claims that the traumatic holocaust experience might have caused genetic damage, meaning that the need to address the issue by extorting money from the German and other governments will conceivably extend into the foreseeable future.
https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/more-holocaust-reparations-for-2020-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving/
Germany to give $1.4 billion to Holocaust survivors globally in 2024
https://apnews.com/article/german-jews-holocaust-survivors-claims-conference-compensation-6e50867ada8a79d32d192c99020ee1cc
It is no secret that Israel is the world’s leading recipient of US aid since World War II. According to data provided by the US Congressional Research Service, ISRAEL HAS RECEIVED $146 BILLION OF US TAXPAYERS’ MONEY AS OF NOVEMBER 2020.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-american-money-tree-the-untold-story-of-us-aid-to-israel/273993/
The Jews have been stealing $250 BILLION from American and German tax payers since 1948.
THEY hate the non-Jews with a vengeance. Why is no one talking about that ?
To the Jews all the non-Jews are AMALEK, their Eternal Enemy to be destroyed.
Their “vaccines” are used to DEPOPULATE the world.
They literally brag about it: “The Jews were behind the invention and creation of the COVID vaccines that are saving humanity now from what would be an unbelievable and unspeakable catastrophe.”
Yes, the Jewish “vaccines” are THE catastrophe. 1 million vaccinated died in the UK over the past 2 years compared to 61,000 unvaccinated.
Video Link
Rabbi, Mizrachi: “Goyim, at least 6 billion of them are idol worshippers and according to the Torah do not have the right to live and deserve the death penalty”.
Video Link
Might interest you ; A Fascinating long letter to the NYTs –
Einstein Arendt Letter 1948
……(excerpt) The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.
In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country.
It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin…….
https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948
Right Moron, Putin was wrong about telling the History of the Jews and their leadership in the Bolshevik Revolution. That’s a good one – Putin isn’t a habitual liar and butcher like Biden and Netanyahu are . Those two psychopaths even put their war crimes on TV – nightly- for all to see.
This is a must read column. I swear that Stephens has to be following TUR to depict antisemitism so accurately!
——-
Antisemitism: A Guide for the Perplexed
Dec. 12, 2023
Bret Stephens
In a season of widespread condemnation of antisemitism, many struggle to define it. I can imagine having this conversation with any number of people trying to understand this age-old phenomenon:
Question: I’m having trouble making sense of some of the claims and counterclaims being made about what is, or isn’t, antisemitic speech and behavior. To be honest, it doesn’t help that so many prominent Jews have sharply different takes on the subject.
Answer: Two Jews, three opinions.
That sounds like a stereotype.
It is. It’s also one of the few things that most Jews agree is true of us as people.
OK, so in your opinion and a half, what is antisemitism?
It’s a conspiracy theory that holds that Jews are uniquely prone to use devious means to achieve malevolent ends and must therefore be opposed by any means necessary, including violence.
Is that the commonly accepted definition?
No, it’s my own. A more widely cited definition comes from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, which defines antisemitism, in part, as “a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews.” But the phrase “a certain perception” raises more questions than it answers.
So why do you call antisemitism a conspiracy theory? Isn’t it just simple bigotry against Jews?
Few things are simple about antisemitism because few things are simple about Jews. We are a nation, a religion, a culture, an “other.” At various times we’ve also been thought of, falsely, as a race, most malevolently by the Nazis.
Antisemitism has expressed itself over the centuries as political opposition to Jews, religious hatred, cultural disdain, xenophobia or racism. It’s a shape-shifting virus that has adapted itself to the reigning prejudices of different eras. But a common thread linking one strain to another is that antisemitism typically takes the form of a conspiracy theory.
…
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/12/opinion/antisemitism-jewish-israel-war.html
Fran Taubman #320 says:
LOL !!! ROTFL !!!
NO EVIDENCE. No evidence for the “beheaded babies” either.
NO, HE IS NOT. YOU, FRAN TAUBMAN, ARE A TOTAL ASS. You don’t like the truth, do you ?
Hamas October 7 was an Israeli Psy Op, the pretext they needed to Genocide the Palestinians and start WORLD WAR III.
Yes, Hamas killed Israeli soldiers, BUT it was the Brutality of the Genocidal Jews killing their fellow Jews on October 7 with tanks and Apache helicopters.
https://counterinformation.wordpress.com/2023/11/21/what-really-happened-on-october-7/
Hamas have ALL THE RIGHT to kill Israeli soldiers. They are NOT the TERRORISTS. THE JEWISH TERRORIST STATE OF ISRAEL ON STOLEN PALESTINIAN LAND HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST.
To claim that the Hamas attack on Israel, on October 7 was a surprise attack is the biggest tell that this war, Genocide !, was contrived by Israel.
Israeli intelligence veterans said that there is no way this attack was a surprise.
The Israel Attacks: Beyond the Obvious with Efrat Fenigson
Israel have informers in Gaza and everything is monitored electronically. There is no way that that fence could have been breached in 15 places without the Israelis NOT knowing it.
Netanyahu, real name Mileikowsky, father born in Warsaw, Poland, called it a “Pearl Harbor”. How appropriate as the JEW Roosevelt was goading the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor, so he could then have his War with Germany.
ISRAEL BURYING Burned Cars They DESTROYED on October 7, NOT HAMAS,!
Hundreds of cars and trucks were destroyed, most of them burned, during Hamas’ October 7 attacks inside Israel. Hamas did NOT have the weaponry to destroy those cars. Israeli Apache helicopters destroyed those cars and killing so many Israelis.
Now the Israeli authorities have announced that these vehicles will all be shredded and buried, ostensibly because under Jewish custom all human remains must be interred in a timely fashion. But is that the real reason for this course of action? Of course, NOT.
They want to bury the evidence that they destroyed those cars.
The Official Story Of October Seventh
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2023/12/07/the-official-story-of-october-seventh/
There are vehicles with charred bodies very much like the road of death out of Kuwait. These types of injuries are typical of air strikes with missiles. I’d assume that the pilots were trying to hit retreating Hamas gunmen. But the reality is that they were lighting up anything that moved.
One thing that I do not understand about the debacle is that Hamas only breached the wall in a few places. IDF has helicopter borne brigades that should have just landed around the breaches of the wall. It was manageable. But caution obviously gripped the commanders of these elite assault troops who could have simply sealed up the wall breaches.
Ron Ald M #3 says:
The Arabs are more than willing and ready to fight for the Palestinians and attack Israel, but the JEWS ruling Turkey, the second largest military force in NATO after the US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan have betrayed the Arabs in those countries.
Turkey is, of course, not an Arab country, but definitely Muslim, could make all the difference. Putin could also make a difference and send his military to Gaza as he did in Syria and impose a no-fly zone over Gaza. But Putin is, of course, also Jewish.
Putin Supports Israel’s Right to Self-Defense and Calls for Two-State Solution, Oct 14, 2023
https://time.news/putin-supports-israels-right-to-self-defense-and-calls-for-two-state-solution/
Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Libya supported the Palestinians. Only Iran has not yet been attacked by America, Israel’s Attack Dog.
Israel-Palestine war: Arab regimes have betrayed Gaza. It’s time to change course
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-gaza-arab-regimes-betrayed-time-change-course
The HOUSE OF SAUD, ruling Saudi Arabia is JEWISH.
WERE THE WAHABBIS & THE SAUDS JEWS ?
The House Of Saud: It’s Jewish Origin And Installation By The British Crown
https://themillenniumreport.com/2015/12/the-house-of-saud-its-jewish-origin-and-installation-by-the-british-crown/
THE DOCUMENTED JEWISH ROOTS OF SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY
https://concisepolitics.com/2016/04/28/the-documented-jewish-roots-of-saudi-royal-family/
Egyptian President Al-Sisi is a Jew. Apparently this is old news! Kevin Barrett revealed it ten years ago:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130918091705/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/16/al-sisi-jew/
Don’t expect Egypt to come to Gaza’s defence.
Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi is flat-out legally Jewish and would be kosher under Israeli Law of Return.
He had a Moroccan Jewish mother … his take-over is said to have been a Mossad coup.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130918091705/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/16/al-sisi-jew/
“General Abd al-Fattah al-Sisi, is a Jew. His mother, Malikah Titani, is a Moroccan Jew from Asefi, which makes al-Sisi a Jew and an automatic citizen of Israel. … al-Sisi has concealed his Jewish identity and Israeli connections from the Egyptian people…and destroyed their nascent democracy through deception and mass murder.
Al-Sisi is almost certainly a Mossad agent. … No wonder the Israeli ambassador called al-Sisi “a national hero for all Jews.” … Egypt … a permanent province of Greater Israel, ruled by a Jewish-Zionist thug who has appointed himself pharaoh, while hiding his real background and loyalties.
Al-Sisi’s uncle, Uri Sibagh served in the Jewish Defense League from 1948 to 1950, made his Aliyah to Israel, and became a bigwig in Ben Gurion’s political party, serving as the secretary of the Israeli Labor Party in Beersheba from 1968 to 1981. Uri’s sister – al-Sisi’s mother – presumably emigrated to Egypt on a mission from the Mossad. That mission culminated when the Mossad overthrew President Morsi and installed its agent al-Sisi in the coup d’état of July 3rd, 2013.
Turkish President ERDOGAN is also JEWISH.
https://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2014/08/turks-elect-jewish-president.html
Ergün Poyraz, in his 2007 book Children of Moses, wrote that Turkey’ Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and his wife, are crypto-Jews, who secretly work with Israeli intelligence.
In 2007, Poyraz was arrested and eventually sentenced to 29 years in prison.
Erdogan has helped the Israel in its attacks on Syria and Iraq.
Turkey has a large crypto-Jewish population.
“Erdogan is a Jew who tries to sound a Muslim” Erdogan’s Former Minister
https://www.islamicinvitationturkey.com/design/erdogan-is-a-jew-who-tries-to-sound-a-muslim-erdogans-former-minister/
MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK, “the Father of Modern Turkey” was also a JEW.
https://www.islam-radio.net/ataturk/jewish.htm
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk Was A Jew And A Nasty Kafir
Jordan’s King ABDULLAH II is also JEWISH.
His mother is an aristocratic British Jewess named Antoinette Avril Gardiner. Muslims carry the lineage and surname of the father but a Jew is only a Jew through his mother.
For me, reading and writing are things to do exclusively inside, with total quiet.
For those interested, here’s a long two-part interview I did a few days ago on Red Ice, discussing the Israel/Gaza conflict and the related issue of antisemitism:
Video Link
For folks who have been hiding behind the Holocaust for many years, the friends of Israel are pretty keen to justify mass murder these days.
What is it about the IDF which reminds me of special Nazi units operating behind the Eastern Front during WW2 eliminating “undesirables,” be they men, women or children?
BTW, have you thought of registering under FARA?
[This is not an anti-vaxxing thread, and don’t be surprised if these sort of comments get trashed.]
Thx for that.
According to Steve Kirsch, however, the NZ leaker’s data has been validated by two of the world’s most highly respected experts on data, risk, and epidemiology, Norman Fenton (Professor of Risk Information Management, Queen Mary University of London) and Harvey Risch, MD PHd; (Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Scientist in Epidemiology (Chronic Diseases); Yale Institute for Global Health).
In SK’s slide deck (linked below), slides 76 85 86 and 91 basically summarize that the leaked data removes all doubt about the vaccines killing massive numbers of people:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSRlvhl5g5_y6BGPm8qJ44uPiiLXwOt7g7cz2QxuDxRHAUUT8mVtfyfUg6gOOmz77peNvbrgVHP5B_V/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&pli=1&slide=id.g29e4488c625_0_274
Speaking of pics…
> Trotsky financing the Bolshevik takeover in November of ’17,
What on earth is that supposed to mean? Do you have images in your mind of Trotsky passing out suitcases of dollar bills while he recruited soldiers around Petrograd? Nothing of the sort has ever come to light. The only historical evidence shows that Russians were tired of the war and wanted to carry out major changes promptly, while the Provisional Government continued with the war and perpetually put off changes such as the land reform which Kerensky’s party had built its reputation on advocating. But nothing in more than a century has ever come to light to suggest that big expenditures of money from mysterious sources played any role at all. The Bolshevik Revolution was mainly a low-budget enterprise.
> “the Russian civil war” began AFTER the Bolshevik takeover.
Duh! Why else would anyone distinguish the Revolution from the Civil War? The Right-wing Whites had an opportunity at first to turn things, but they fouled it up. Kolchak’s view on the dismissal of the Constituent Assembly were the following:
“I think that even though the Bolsheviks have few positive sides, the disbandment of that Constituent Assembly is truly to their credit. This, one should consider their positive asset.”
— Vladimir Brovkin, Behind the Front Lines, p. 195.
The elections to the Constituent Assembly had given a predominance to the Social Revolutionaries, which was Kerensky’s party. But Kolchak was no more interested in defending the Assembly than Trotsky had been. Instead, Kolchak organized a coup against the government in Siberia which the SRs had formed after they were forced to retreat from Petrograd. There was never any support for Kolchak’s coup, and that was why he lost. The Bolsheviks came out the winners because Kolchak and other White leaders had made it impossible for the SRs, Mensheviks and other such popular parties to function outside of the regions controlled by Lenin’s party.
> There is credible evidence of the destruction in Georgia.
Which only strengthens my point. For the first couple decades after the American Civil War, there wasn’t a lot of publicity given to the destruction in Georgia. People just concentrated on economic recovery. Only after the latter had been achieved, did a fascination start to grow with remembering the destruction in the South. Likewise, whatever the evidence may support about what actually happened with Jews during World War II, there should be no surprise that it wasn’t until the late 1960s that a new fascination with Jewish experiences in the war began to grow. It simply is a false deduction to try to argue that “If such-and-such had really happened during the war, then people would have been publishing big books about it right after!”
> I wonder why he didn’t write a WW2 memoir?
Because he died 12 days after suffering a car accident. The accident occurred on December 9, 1945. Patton was talking all the way to December 12, when he died of a heart attack. The problem with claiming that this was a hit is that it would be the clumsiest hit in world history. If Beria had decided to bump someone like Patton off, then it would probably have been done with some sort of fast-acting food-poisoning. But in this case, was around for 12 days when he could have accused anyone of faking his car accident. There’s no evidence that he ever did make such an accusation during those 12 days. So, it was probably just a legitimate accident.
Thanks. Brings to mind Argentina’s new Zionist president, Milei, supposedly a gentile who wants to become Jewish.
> The Russian Empire was played just like the Americans are being played today,
The key decision in Czarist Russia which one could possibly compare with some made in the USA today was the order to mobilize on July 31. There is no evidence that any of the Russian officials who made this decision were influenced by any Jews. They did it simply because they thought they would uphold their Pan-Slavic credibility by supporting Serbia against Austria.
> thousands of Trotsky’s
That’s a really bizarre delusion on your part. Whatever critique one may wish to make of it, Trotsky’s politics bear no resemblance to anything that is prevalent outside of miniscule groups today. Most notable was Trotsky’s insistence that the war between Germany and Britain which began on September 3, 1939, was an inter-imperialist war in which the task of socialists was to preach for the revolutionary overthrow of the bourgeoisie of both sides. You certainly won’t find those types of views expressed by Chaim Weizmann anywhere.
Probably everyone has now seen the result.
In Favour 153. Against 10. Abstain 23.
https://t.me/intelslava/53801
Thank you, Egypt.
Thank you, Mauritania.
Why? Because the Israelis are armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, that’s why. The Arab and Turkish governments all know this. If things start to go south for the Israelis, e.g., if Hezbollah launches a full-scale attack on northern Israel (rather than the skirmishing they are doing now), or the Turks decided to intervene, the Israelis won’t hesitate to start blasting away, that’s why.
They were brandishing the nukes when the 1973 war was going bad for them, which is why Nixon rushed weapons and money to Israel at the time.
The only deterrent are the Pakistani nukes, but if the Israeli leadership feels their country’s position is severely threatened, they’ll figure they are going down anyway, so might as well use them.
Letting the Israelis get nuclear weapons was they worst foreign policy mistake in US history (Thanks, LBJ!!!).
1_You can not deny that the Holy Land with Jerusalem at its centre belongs to Christians and the Jewish people.
2_If you are confused Judeo-Christian refers to the culture shared by both Christians and the Jewish people.
3_Remember this : Jerusalem for Christians and the Jewish people, Mecca and Madina for Mohammedans. That is fair, isn’t it ?
4_Mohammedan greed ( their aggression on Jerusalem and Constantinople, threats on Rome ) and warmongering is a recipe for disaster.
Most likely Patton WAS assassinated. When the car accident didn’t kill him, being hospitalized would. Being hospitalized is one of the easiest places in which to perform an assassination. Hooked up to an IV, it would have been easy to inject something into an IV line to cause death. As medical personnel are always running around, not paying attention to a small detail as someone entering Patton’s room, assassination would be easy to effect.
Patton regarded the German military as honorable and wanted the it to to be reconstituted and used to “push back” the soviets out of Europe.
The jews were not about to let that happen, hence Patton had to be rendered “out of the way”.
If Patton had lived, he would have run for public office and would have exposed the perfidy of jewish interests who were consolidating political power at that time. It is no secret that Patton had no use for jews.
I place Patton in a place of high honor among fellow patriots being Charles Lindbergh, Father Charles Coughlin, and Henry Ford.
Apologies for just brief tg.
Here is the UN website with more detail.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717
PS. I have this volume and can recommend it to all interested.
Winner of the English PEN Award.
You can buy it from your local Palestine Association in hard copy, and even add a small donation as you are able and as you may wish.
There is nothing wrong with respecting your Judeo-Christian culture.
I think that the disappointment was that Greg Cochran didn’t use that money to write more stuff or do more research. One could argue that he still deserves that money because he’s a very smart person and has five smart children, so he definitively breeds very eugenically, but then he should have been up front with Ron about what he was and was not going to use this money for.
I still think that helping separate the two Filipino conjoined twin girls that I mentioned above would be an excellent use of an extra $100,000 or so of Ron Unz’s money, though. Their quality of life is terrible due to them being attached to the face and being too poor to afford separation surgery by themselves.
Putin has his own record of lying without any need for Biden or Netanyahu. You’re a gullible fool if you don’t understand that. In this, Putin was simply repeating Robert Wilton’s hoax. The textual material of Wilton’s claims can be read here:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Jewish_role_in_the_early_Soviet_Regime
Or else the English edition of Wilton’s book that was published by the IHR can be found to have the same material. Unfortunately, all of Wilton’s claims are fabrications. In this case, the lie which Putin was repeating was derived from Wilton’s fake list of alleged members in the Council of People’s Commissars, which you can read on the above link. The actual listing of the Council’s membership is given here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_People%27s_Commissars#Original_People’s_Commissars
All of Wilton’s lists are fake. He cooks up a list of the Central Committee which he claims had 12 members, 9 of them Jewish. That’s bogus. Some actual data about the party-membership can be found here:
http://holocaust.skeptik.net/misc/party.htm
You can look up the membership of the Central Committee (TsK) either on August 16, 1917, or on March 8, 1918, when it was reformed. In either case, Wilton’s claim is fake. Putin was not making a statement based on historical archives when he made this comment:
https://forward.com/opinion/179038/putin-jews-ruined-russia-but-now-were-pals-eh/
He was just recycling Wilton’s propaganda.
The oldest Cartohraphy records show those lands as Palestine..The ancient African Nomad traders called them Palestine, the Macedonians (BC), Geeks, Roman,Persians.Ottomans. UK. they called them PALESTINE…the old BIBLES maps label them PALESTINE…the country/nation/STATE of Israel never existed before 1948…only jewish tribes/clans..NOT a State..
Ron,
Why have you never mentioned the Jewish Nabka? The forced eviction of the 800,000 Jews from Arab countries in1948. Jews resided in Arab lands peacefully since before temple times. How come you never mention the Jews refugees, that Israel took 100% in?
Where do you think you rate as a historian on the Holocaust, WW2, The Nabka, and the Israeli Palestinian conflict? My guess is that outside of Islamist and lunatic Jew haters and H deniers on your website, I do not believe your voice and writings are taken that seriously. I wonder why?
> If Patton had lived,
He would have been severely crippled. He had been paralyzed from the neck down and was on record as commenting that “This is a hell of a way to die.” Yet there is non record of his having expressed a belief that he had been victimized by a conspiracy. Why didn’t he say something, if that was a serious possibility? All of the evidence shows that was likely just an ordinary accident.
There is truth and veracity in the Orthodox Jews consistent claim of heresy in the establishment of Israel, and its unholy and un-Godly status. However, they are a generally impoverished and considerable minority compared to the secular, sick Jews aka “Reformed”.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-12-12-israel-hamas-fighters-civilians-humiliated-dehumanized-idf.html
Get rid of the “judeo” in Christianity and Christianity will do just fine.
Question:
Why do Evangelical Christians love Israel and Netanyahu?
Answer:
It’s all about the shekels.
That fat bastard Hagee is a prime example. A close second is that of those who preach the “prosperity gospel” insisting that “God” will make you wealthy if you just “believe”…which couples directly with judaism which celebrates the “God” of money and wealth, strictly jewish concepts. The jews purchased Hagee a jet…for all of his “help”.
Every Christian or Catholic sect that promotes judaism is not following any of the precepts of Christianity or Catholicism.
Judaism is the exact opposite of Christianity or Catholicism and must be recognized as such. The concept of “judeo-Christian” faith must be abolished.
Is it possible to be a Christian or Catholic without falling into the error of promoting the jews?
Absolutely YES.
However, it requires a recognition that both the Old and New Testament Bible is NOT the “inspired word of God” but is a text which does have some usefulness in guiding human behavior. “Sola scriptura” is a false doctrine along with the Scofield “translation” of the Bible which cemented the jews to the status of “our elder brothers”.
The Old Testament “God” is a vengeful “God” who has to constantly remind “his people” “who is boss”. Punishment was always a part of the equation.
Contrast that with the New Testament “God” who is a “God” of mercy and forgiveness…two different concepts, indeed.
Keep in mind that jews have never repudiated slavery or genocide. Both abominations are still a part of jewish doctrine. It’s all in their talmud.
Judaism is the polar opposite of Christianity and especially Catholicism.
The worst people of any faith or belief system are those who “wear their faith on their shoulder” who insist that “their way” is “the only way”.
Now for differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism…
Protestants, especially Baptists have a “hard on” when it comes to hatred of the Catholic Church. They consider Catholics to be an “enemy” and the Catholic Church to be satanic…
Protestants take a small part of the Bible and concentrate on one small aspect ignoring the rest of the “message”. A good example of this is the practice of Baptist “snake handlers” who handle poisonous snakes, relying on the “spirit” to “save” them.
Protestants believe in “sola scriptura” in which the “written word” of the Bible is sacrosanct, despite the Bible being written by men, quite often with their own agenda. Even a shyster Schofield got his biblical licks in, elevating the jew to that of “our elder brother” and absolving the jews from responsibility for the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ despite vitriolic jewish hatred of Jesus Christ which exists to this very day.
Protestants also believe that “good works” have no bearing on “salvation” which I have a hard time with).
In protestant doctrine, one can be a grievous sinner all of his life, hurting and destroying others, and on his deathbed profess a belief in Jesus Christ and will automatically be “saved”.
Even if “good works” have no bearing on the possibility of “salvation” they can’t hurt…
Catholics do not worship saints. Those individuals who have lived exemplary lives and have proven themselves to be worthy of veneration by being good examples of what ALL human beings should emulate are recognized by the Catholic Church.
The Pope is (supposed to be) the “spiritual leader” in our temporal realm, nothing more.
Yes, the Catholic Church has problems, and will always have problems, but has still done more for humanity than most.
The first hospitals, educational institutions, and charity organizations in the middle ages and beyond were founded and run by the Catholic Church.
Yes, the Catholic Church “went off the rails” by selling “indulgences” (a fast-track to heaven)-a big mistake.
I make no excuses for the behavior of the Catholic Church. Hell, at one time, there were three “popes”…talk about confusion (lol).
I stand by my statement that the “Vatican II Ecumenical Council” was a power grab by jews and protestants and was detrimental to the Catholic faith.
Fortunately, there are “old-line” Catholic parishes that still exist, despite efforts by “Novus Ordo” clergy to stamp them out…
It will no doubt be interesting to read the latest chapter, which will “chronicle” this conflict.
“the culture shared by both Christians and the Jewish people.”
You’re talking about Hollywood/Epstein/Hagee/Trump?
Jews believe that the churches in the Holy Land should be razed and they spit on Christians in Jerusalem.
You may “share” something with them, but they sure as hell ain’t sharing anything with you, cuckold.
Pretzel, you just make stuff up as you go along from your Bolshevik Bubble in the basement of your favorite Gulag. Your ridiculous assertions will only be considered by those unfamiliar with the truth of WW2/Soviets/JQ, which is your obvious objective.
So, let’s see if your supposition is true:
The Camden Daily Journal, September 8, 1864
FROM THE GEORGIA FRONT
Macon, Sept. 7 – The enemy continues to retire his main forces on the Macon and West Point railroad towards Atlanta. We drove them out of Jonesboro, and retook a great many prisoners. Our loss from all causes in the battles of last week is now ascertained to have been 1500.
NORTHERN NEWS
[…] The Confederate Loan had advanced 3 per cent on the reception of the news in England of Grant’s repulse before Petersburg.
Petersburg, Sept. 7 – […] Sherman officially reports that he has withdrew from Atlanta, made a breach in the West Point railroad, and reaching a good position, struck the Macon road… Hood finding Sherman between him and a considerable portion of his army, blew up his magazine and left when the 20th corps entered Atlanta…Says he has over 300 dead, 250 wounded and 1500 prisoners….The Herald says the blow at Atlanta has put down the rebellion, the mountains of Virginia may be unpleasant for years to come. There is great rejoicing in Burlington, New Jersey, over the fall of Atlanta. New York City is exempted from the draft.
The end.
Pretzel, do you note the similarities in the information coming from Macon and Petersburg? It’s basically the same story. Now, there are in Archives over 600 entries in various publications about Atlanta’s fall (and Georgia’s) in 1864; I didn’t read all 600 +, but I read several, and they all REPORTED THE SAME INFORMATION – nearly exactly the same information. I choose this particular article because it provides information obtained from two reporting entities; there is a reference to Money Interests In England; and NYC/New Amsterdam wiggled off the draft hook. Same story again on the last two points, yes?
If Sherman had said, he had 4m dead, no 1.2m dead! – then we may wonder – was he lying? I found no references to human bologna, human fat used for fuel, southern belles slapping Sherman with their knickers….you know very well the Jewish testimony is wildly varied amongst witnesses who were interred at the same place at the same time….Pretzel.
Yes, we all know Patton died and was unable to dictate his memoir from his MASH bed. Considering the things he publicly said about Jews, Stalin, Germans, and Eisenhower, only a Bolshevik hustler like you would say it was a legitimate accident. You did write probably, so I suspect you know perfectly well he was assassinated.
The Molochaust didn’t happen; the Nakba did happen; it’s happening still in Gaza, the US, Europe, and certainly in Germany, and there’s absolutely no way the attack on October 7 was a surprise to Israel – they enabled it or planned it outright with settlers or soldiers posing as Arabs. Probably. Most likely. Definitely.
Wonderful. Why not check with Amazon or Netflix and see if they want to fund a movie. Otherwise, why should anyone care?
Just more unrequited whining.
My speculation is that whilst he spoke openly/critically about Jews, Germans, the war, etc., like most Americans, then and still somewhat today, the idea of a rot so deep within the American government and military that would enable the idea/probability of executing our own soldiers, generals, or heroes, was not within the realm of consideration. He learned another truth in his MASH bed, didn’t he? I further speculate that he may have kept quiet in order to protect his family, as he knew there was no way he would survive to protect them.
I once thought – there’s no way Bill Clinton would so boldly/blatantly lie – he’s the president of the United States of America. I still thought our government was honest, and for the most part, tried to affect good in the world. My grandfather came back from the war deeply disturbed about what happened during WW2, and he despised FDR, but he could never bring himself to denounce America and the men/boys who died believing they were fighting against a real enemy. Like Patton, he said the Germans were not our enemy.
Unrequited? No, because Moloch knows his Jews never snivel or whine about anything at all.
I think they are absolutely prohibited from happiness, gratitude, and telling the truth to Gentiles about the misery within their self-imposed Ghettos, Shitels, mitzvah baths, chicken slinging festivals, and penile torture rituals on infants….
Fran Taubman:
It says in Genesis, that Israel is Issac’s inheritance. The descendants of Isaac’s inheritance.
======
Who cares what it says in Genesis?
Only the fake heirs to the estate, that’s who.
Like any heir who figures he is the only heir.
Like you, Fran Taubman. Grow up and get out of the sandbox
For more useful, relevant insights on inheritances and rightful heirs, check out a few Agatha Christie mysteries.
the jews who own both netflix and amazon won’t allow the truth to be exposed
Patton wouldn’t have known that he was being assassinated. As I previously stated, any one of a number of killing agents could have been introduced into his IV. easy peasy in those circumstances.
“Whatever critique one may wish to make of it, Trotsky’s politics bear no resemblance to anything that is prevalent outside of miniscule [sic] groups today.”
Huh?
I thought that the Neocons are basically (1) American Zionists, and (2) Trotskyites.
Meanwhile, Ukrainian Jews are selling out Ukrainian national resources to American Jews (‘holobiz survivors”). https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/zelensky-circus-comes-to-town-for
To reiterate: The jews in Ukraine want to close the deal with the jews in the US by selling “all strategic enterprises of Ukraine: nuclear power plant / hydroelectric station / PHC / oblenergo / regional farms / plants, and most importantly, subsoil and land will go under the control of a multinational company.”
Mazel Tov, Nuland and the whole parasitic Kagans’ clan, plus the obnoxious mediocrity Blinken, and other dual-loyalty scum like Schumer, Klobuchar, Yellen, et al, on your efforts at the Nazification of Ukraine to wage Judea War on Russia. The hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were sacrificed to ensure that “Soros, BlackRock, MIC defense corps, et al” can parasitize on Ukraine forever.
The sadism and anti-human greed are the systematic features of the jewish community at large. The ongoing genocide of the Palestinian children and women exposes the same horrendous features of the “most moral and most victimized” profiteers on the lucrative “shoah”business.
JFYI.
Another aspect of especial concern to Red Sea Pedestrians is currect action by Houthi.
Square Mile not slow to react to their embargo on all shipping to IsraHell, an embargo that they are stepping up and strictly enforcing.
Per diem insurance rates for supertankers up 50%.
Other details/link gCaptain
https://t.me/CIG_telegram/40465
One might imagine that without Red Sea Pedestrians in positions of power in ME, also Square Mile etc etc, not only would indigenous Palestinians be able to live in peace in their native country, a very major blessing, but oil would be cheaper for everyone which in turn would drive down prices generally.
This is Episode 5 872 394 of With Jews You Lose.
A case of a thieving Josef Korbel (father of a genocidal criminal Albright): https://www.jta.org/archive/wealthy-austrian-family-claims-albrights-father-stole-paintings-2
Shameless thieves and genociders your people are, don’t you think so, MyauMyauJew?
“Most moral and most victimized?” — is this what your parents and yeshiva teachers have been teaching you?
Millions of decent people now do believe that zionists are thieves and mass-murderers — because jewish children are indoctrinated in amoral jewish customs / mentality. It is hard to be a righteous Jews among the regular tribal jews. Look at the principled and highly intelligent Mearsheimer, Unz, Mate, Max Blumenthal, Katie Halper, Finkelstein, and the rabid hatred they invite from the lewd Dershowitz and hysterical and demon-obsessed Lipstadt.
Patton died in the hospital “of an ’embolism’, that is a bubble of the blood which is fatal when it reaches a vital organ. It can be introduced into the bloodstream with a syringe by anyone with brief medical training.” (https://nationalvanguard.org/2022/06/why-general-george-s-patton-was-murdered/)
Yet it was a low-speed collision that sent him to the hospital and neither of the other passengers were injured. Decades later, a former OSS Agent, Major Douglas Bazata, came forward to say “that he had been part of a hit team that was tasked to assassinate General Patton. He had fired a low-velocity projectile into the back of the General’s neck, in order to snap it and cause him paralysis. When Patton failed to die and was showing signs of recovery, he was murdered in the hospital by Soviet NKVD agents.” (https://libertysentinel.org/the-assassination-of-general-george-patton/)
The ‘last’ chapter, in fact.
An eye for an eye, eh Melanie. You certainly invented ‘civilization’ I must say. Culminating, so far, tragically and ironically, in the Judeocide. The worshipers of genocide become its victims, but now you’re really back in business. ‘…down to the last suckling babe’, just as Yahweh loves it!
OSS and NKVD, eh? But where were The Illuminati, I asks?
I do see your point, but I disagree.
Patton had been squaring off with Eisenhower, and it is/was reported by his family members that he was commenting about “his luck running out.” I don’t think he inferred assassination, but he was disturbed in the few months before his accident. It’s clear he had come to the realization that both FDR and Eisenhower had been lying about Germany, and he publicly said so by comments/writings such as: Patton’s letter to Beatrice, written the day after his meeting with Ike, indicates the turmoil in his mind: “The noise against me is the only means by which Jews and Communists are attempting and with good success to implement a further dismemberment of Germany.” He ended it by saying that he had no wish to be “executioner to the best race in Europe.”
He was insulting the Jewish population publicly (by telling the truth of his observations), and I’m sure he was aware of the official comments/rumors about his state of mind or becoming unhinged, which is exactly a pattern that occurs when someone is being readied to “die” suspiciously/accidentally. Anyway, it’s pure conjecture, of course, but as he was conscious after the accident, he must have been told the official story, that it was an army truck that crossed paths with his vehicle while he was on his way to a hunting trip. I find it unlikely that it never crossed his mind that he was being taken out after the collision occurred, if it had not been a concern beforehand. The fact that he was quite vocal before the accident, yet rather silent afterwards, may be a clue to his realization that he had messed with the wrong enemy.
Yes, many things get by me
But your sentence: “The United Nations had legally created the State of Israel…” is not true, as Tom Welsh (comment 136) says.
UN Res. 181 never went to the SC for ratification. Jews just declared statehood, Russia gave a thumbs up, so did Truman, and the rest his false history
Additionally, we can take a look at the map of countries voting nay on 181: they all surround Palestine, their votes should have weighed more than Australia’s, b/c their lives would be most impacted by the intrusion of a Jewish supremacist state. But of course they weren’t.
Alan Hart (RIP) explains the illegitimacy part better:
https://www.alanhart.net/israel%E2%80%99s-right-or-not-to-exist-the-facts-and-truth/
Following the UN vote in which Israel/USA managed to get another eight nations to join them in opposing any halt to Israel’s slaughter of Gaza civilians, as opposed to 153 nations voting for ceasefire, US has clarified its position.
Golem will only cease ammo supply if Israel says so, in fact.
USA can keep doing this whatever the outcome.
Or whatever anyone might think of it.
Or whatever consequences might ensue for itself.
Great American brains have carefully thought this out.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/13/716330/US-Israel-support-sources-CNN-Gaza-war
Why do you call Fran Melanie, I asks?
Good for the clear sighted and humane young Congressman.
Why do you quote approvingly “apparently illegal” when you also quote the assertion that LBJ was arranging for visas to be supplied to those immigrants? “illegal”? But with “visas”?
Thank you. I admire your sentiments but I would nominate for the use of Ron’s money the commissioning of research for which he would seek dollar for dollar from his readers. I have in mind for example gettimg a bright Stanford graduate student (Masters or PhD) to write a thesis on African caste systems and their implications for past slavery and biological variety. That’s just one of fiifty I could nominate. I have from time to time offered modest contributions of my own to encourage him, not more than $5000 that I can clearly remember. Indeed, Ron, what about doing an in house “go fund me” for the Unz Forbidden Topics Research Fund, and another perhaps called “Unz Forgotten and Unnoticed Topics Research Fund.?
The image of Banality of Evil: https://www.rt.com/news/589005-sharren-haskel-interview/
This supremacist ignoramus is a pure expression of Enemy of Humanity. She is shameless, easy with lying, hateful, and of genocidal persuasion. If the jewish state has been attracting this kind of anti-humanity scum, then the state does not have the right to exist.
The dictum “is this good for jews?” has made jews into monsters: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-safe-haven-paedophiles-jerusalem-sex-abuse-jewish-community-watch-a7445246.html
The jewish state has been exposing the Banality of Evil since the state’s inception. https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/7652
What else can be expected from the nest of jewish criminals of all sorts but the ongoing shameless genocide of the Palestinian children and women? The profiteers on “shoah business” expect “others” to accept the atrocities committed against civilians by the “most moral eternal victims.”
jewish fraudsters: https://www.timesofisrael.com/are-french-jewish-criminals-using-israel-as-a-get-out-of-jail-card/
jewish money launderers: https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/16788-israel-sees-massive-jump-in-organized-crime-money-laundering-in-2021
jewish rapists: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/03/Former-Mexican-diplomat-arrested-in-Israel-on-sex-crime-charges
https://apnews.com/article/cyprus-israeli-british-woman-rape-9dbcff8aac4578ad1ce6b93165b058cf
https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Sela
https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-israel-gaza-and-broader-issues/?showcomments#comment-6233469
Short answer No I have even widely circulated Jonathan Cook’s penultimate piece with the shocking story of misused AI, mostly to gentiles but also to my rabbi friend who loathes Netanyahu but loves Israel, or at least his friends there.
In another lofetime I might follow up all those sources you and Ron cite. After all I’m beginning to wonder if you aren’t the funny little nerd with a big head who won the top Scripture Knowledge Prize when I did some time as a teacher at a grand school before he/you went off the planet maybe understandably caused by discovering what your father or uncle or godfather Ian George Peacock was doing in his last years at ASIO. (I wonder if King Charles knows that the school he sort of attended in Australia also educated that venal traitor).
Maybe the Illuminati were involved, but Stepan Bandera, hero of the Zelensky regime, made a guest appearance. He defected to the Americans and informed the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corp that “Soviet High Command has been ordered by Marshall Stalin to kill U.S. Army General George Patton.” Instead of heeding the warning, Donovan of the OSS turned Bandera over to the Soviet authorities. Somehow, Bandera made it to West Germany, but the KGB killed him in ’59.
https://libertysentinel.org/the-assassination-of-general-george-patton/
One can cite “authorities” and various authors till the sun turns blue. You can buttress your viewpoints on behalf of the Bolsheviks simply by choosing the “correct” sources.
Evidently Admiral Kolchak was not particularly astute as to political realities. However, he was far from being the sole White commander. However, to describe silly Kerensky and similar parties as “popular” is a bit of a stretch. No party was popular, particularly amongst the peasant majority who basically detested the Bolshies, but were temporarily conned by those Khazarian schemers, promising them land.
“Great American brains” you say. What a laugh. There are precisely none in the District of Corruption. Even the minds of their many think tanks are massively warped by the hidden hands of the “persuaders”.
In general I don’t trust people who claim to ‘speed-read’, it’s usually a sign that they’re just poor readers. Of course it depends on the material, an extremely information-dense like Israel Shahak, or a writer that uses complex, branching or run-on sentence-structure like Gibbon is going to take much longer to read. On the other hand, material that contains a lot of repetition, like a typical PHD thesis, or with lots of emotional rhetoric and stating the obvious, like a typical hack journalist, well that’s when you skim through.
Speaking of which, Ron Unz should really order Israel Shahak’s two other major books, Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel and Open Secrets: Israeli Foreign and Nuclear Policies.
Both are just as packed as his by far better-known Jewish History, Jewish Religion, but the latter discuss quite a few topics that I’ve hardly seen written about much since, such as Israeli involvement in the international drug-trade, the close and even friendly relations Israel enjoys with the Arab states. There Shahak makes the quite counter-intuitive argument that the more cordial Israel’s *public* relations are with that country, the less leverage Israel usually has over that country’s government in practice, highlighting Israel’s cold peace with Egypt in particular.
Jewish Fundamentalism also contains a lengthy bibliographic discussion of the Jewish Internal Press (though this dates to the early 90s, when the average newspaper was still worth reading), repeating the same point made by Chomsky, Atzmon, Finkelstein and others that there exists far more leeway for criticising Israel or Jews in general within Israel itself than the US (this could arguably now be expanded the West in general).
Speaking of Atzmon, he’s still dropped entirely off the map… maybe he’s still anticipating the mass-deaths from COVID vaccinations and has sequestered himself in a bunker somewhere.
When Russia removes the current terrorist regime in Kiev, it is to be expected that they will support a new government for those Oblasts which primarily speak the Ukrainian dialect of Russian. This newly established government will be encouraged to negate all cessations of Ukrainian land and resources to foreign entities.
In other words, fuck Blackrock, Monsanto and the other evil corporate entities which wish to enrich themselves and their shareholders on the basis of bribing officials of the corrupted “officials” currently holding orfices in Kiev.
Are you saying you would like more Blacks for your neighbors over other Euro-American Whites?
Man, you must hate yourself and your race.
Now that’s actually a good line.
My excuse if needed for making this comment here is that you seem to be in benign learning mode which is less than usual. Perhaps the evil, and misfortne for Israel that can be attached to Netanyahu, is a cause so popular that you are baskingin the atmosphere.😎
I have just been sent a graph showing the corruption rating of Hungary and Ukraine over the years with, now,contrary to the barbs of Tuvker Carlson and Victor Orban, Hungary’s rating has gone down below Ukraine’s since Orban took power and Ukraine’s started going up (i.e. beczuse of less corruption) after the 2014 Revolution of Dignity.
You used to believe a lot of nonsense about the supposed illegitinacy of American support for Kyiv would- be European democrats in early 2014. So perhaps you can explain why Orban is still in power. Where’s your CIA coup when you need one? Perhaps you can get an article on it from John O’Sullivan who would be the most trustworthy almost insider that you and I know. After all it is strange indeed that Hungarians haven’t got rid of Orban with little help when you see how well the Poles understand the Russian danger.
OK we know the jokes about Hungarians being those who go into a revolving door behind you and come out ahead and add to that the probability that Hungarian is even lower on the list of languages American spooks can speak fluently, especially at influential levels, but does that mean they aren’t trying something, so far not successfully.
I can believe that but can you cite good studoes of how the peasants were gulled and by whom before the days of massive opinion polling?
Montgomery was also in a nearly fatal plane crash around the time that Patton died. A little known fact. It’s very odd.
https://www.historynet.com/montgomery-ww2-leadership/
What is the reasoning? Why would it be the opposite to foreign relations between other countries? In order to deflect attention to non-transparent internal influence, Israel and the other country must issue somewhat hostile or negative public statements?
Apparently, the Israeli-American relationship would be an exception.
That’s always been my impression as well. And although this particular article was based upon almost a dozen different books, it wasn’t as much as it might seem. For example, I’d actually finished reading a couple of the longer ones just before the October 7th attacks and five or six of the others were really pretty short as I mentioned. Still, I did need two seeks to get everything done and the article written.
Sure, I bought and read them at the same time as the other book, something like 15 years ago. In fact, I linked and briefly mentioned them in the same original article:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/
That was my impression. He’d published a long series of rather “excitable” articles claiming that since Israel had some of the highest vaxxing rates in the world, everyone there would soon be dead. So I assume he just got a little embarrassed when nothing actually happened and he decided to drop out of sight for a while.
Frankly, if his vaxxing fears had been correct, I think our current Middle East problems would be much less severe…
“Without the reality of the Holocaust, the decades-long Zionist project to create a Jewish State almost certainly would have failed. ”
This is half the reason why it is illegal to question the Holocaust in many Western countries and why revisionist history regarding the Holocaust is completely excluded from mainstream discourse.
The other half is because those lovely paychecks that get deposited in the bank accounts of “survivors” would be equally impossible if that “reality” was ever seriously looked into.
Sure, perhaps I should have mentioned something about that, but it would have been a digression from the main subject and the article was already very long.
I assume you’re aware that the ingathering of the Jews from the Arab world was a top-priority project of the Israeli government, one that they actively supported and encouraged in every way possible. That even included launching a secret terrorist bombing campaign against the Jewish synagogues of Iraq to terrify the Iraqi Jews and force them to move to Israel after having lived in that region for something like 2500 years. The story came out several decades ago and caused quite a bit of controversy in Israel.
So the Zionists used terrorist bombings to drive the Palestinians out of Israel and also used terrorist bombings to drive the Iraqi Jews out of Iraq.
Hard to be sure. But various people in the past have certainly been quite impressed by some of my work:
https://www.unz.com/ebook/our-american-pravda-series-ebook/#cover-quotes
Actually, if you’re interested in the Patton case, you might want to take a look at the fairly extensive article I published on the topic back in 2016:
https://www.unz.com/runz/was-general-patton-assassinated/
As I’ve emphasized before, Eustace Mullins was a pretty disreputable character, widely denounced in conspiratorial anti-Semitic Far Right circles as a notorious liar and fabricator, making it very difficult to trust anything he wrote. So it’s really not a good idea to cite his writings on anything controversial.
I think the Wilcox book published in 2008 is by a very wide margin the most comprehensive and solid treatment of the topic.
Well, I spent a few minutes hunting through the appropriate chapter of his book, and didn’t find anything. Maybe it was in a footnote or maybe he misspoke during his discussion with Sachs. But I think it’s far more likely that I just somehow misheard or misremembered him.
Joseph Massad penned an article about the subject. An excerpt, drawing generously from Tom Segev:
Thanks for bringing the very long article to my attention, and I just finished reading it. As you say, it might have had a significant impact upon elite mainstream perceptions at that point.
She actually seems like a very good journalist, and I can’t really fault her for writing that piece, severely mistaken though it was on many very important points.
She obviously wasn’t a Middle East specialist, so in those pre-Internet days I assume she was operating within the factual framework established by the mainstream books and articles she’d read, and if those were severely biased or distorted, how was she to know?
For example, she accepted everything she’d seen reported at the Eichmann trial earlier that same year, which described the horrific Nazi extermination of all the European Jews. So when some of the Arabs she talked with had claimed that the Zionists had actually worked with Hitler to establish Israel, it sounded like total conspiracy-lunacy and probably severely damaged their credibility on other matters. The same when they claimed that Hitler’s killing of Jews was wildly exaggerated. But imagine if she’d actually known that Eichmann had been the main liaison between the Nazi SS and the Zionists, regarded as a strong philo-Semite who’d studied Hebrew, and that Israel had probably eliminated him in hopes of permanently burying that reality. But all those facts only came out decades later.
Also, when the Palestinians claimed that the Zionists had committed lots of brutal massacres to drive them out of Palestine, she seemed pretty skeptical. Why should she believe them as opposed to all her trusted mainstream sources of information?
Suppose that the Internet didn’t exist. How would you know anything about what was really going on the world or what had happened in some other place or time? Prior to the Internet, I certainly wouldn’t have discovered even 1% of the things that I have.
I’ve read plenty of accounts on reactions of the peasants after being taken for a ride by Bolshevik schemers. The Reds get some support from urban industrial workers in the larger cities…but they were a tiny minority, even though they were majorities in those minority population centers. In 1917 the vast majority of Russians lived on the land.
Do your own research. I do not have time to fool with keeping files.
Even my 7th grade American history book had something about the Union targeting Atlanta because it was a major city. And destroying the railroads. And confiscating the vast amounts of stockpiled cotton. A couple chapters later the exploitation of cheap labor and southern resources Plus cutting down entire forests or clear cutting.
And when the Yemeni Jews arrived in Israel, their children were used in the infamous, but unknown in the West, ‘Ringworm Affair’, where 20 thousand to 200, 000 Mizrahi Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, were subjected to ionising radiation, supposedly to treat ringworm of the head.
Although radiation treatment was used widely before medications became available, the doses were hugely greater than those usually used, and was part of a US program to ‘investigate’ the effects of large exposures to ionising radiation. One hundred thousand were irradiated, of whom six thousand died shortly thereafter, and many developed head and neck cancer in later years.
Then there was the Yemenite Children Affair, where somewhere between one thousand and five thousand Yemeni children were stolen from their families after they arrived in Israel, after being taken to hospitals. Their parents were then, curtly, informed that the children had died, although many were apparently given to Ashkenazim for adoption. They’d have been better off staying in Yemen, but they were hardly given a choice. ‘A Light Unto the Nations’, no doubt.
Dear, oh dear. Where did you get this ‘graph’ from? You certainly peddle a deal of raw bull-dust Ooze, but this is a real beaut. The ludicrous, Banderite, description of the neo-fascist and neo-Nazi, CIA organised putsch against a democratically elected President, as the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ is a sordid PR lie. You might as well call Pinochet’s coup the ‘Revolution of Western Values’ perhaps, although that’s more honest.
You seem pig ignorant of the Western efforts to organise a ‘coalition’ of disparate parties to depose Orban in the last election, a familiar Colour Revolution tactic, but the Hungarians refused to co-operate. Oh, wait-I know. Orban and Putin rigged the election! Of course, you have a ‘graph’ that shows how they did it, you pathetic, old, reactionary, duffer you. No wonder the Yankee Empire is crumbling, when they have to rely on stooges as ludicrous as you.
Ooze, I understand that the years weary and the facts condemn, but this is a very important point. If Israel, which dominates Western cyberspace activities, has utilised artificial intelligence (programmed by Zionazis), we have passed a real tipping-point to that Hell of automated slaughter that has long been predicted. Give ’em a few more years of Internet surveillance, AI development, autonomous drones and killer robots (Musk’s new one is a doozy)and they’ll be in the position to eliminate anyone who ‘gets in the way’ of the ‘Exceptional’ Anglosphere-Israeli Empire. You’ll be safe.
I do sympathise with your Rabbi friend-to be in a group where the very worst members have taken charge and begun behaving with exquisite wickedness must be very disheartening, particularly for Jews. Rather like the feeling that sane and decent Indigenous must get when surveying the likes of Mundine and Price.
Typical: news of “deadly ambush” but they won’t say how many. One KIA, one wounded…. why headline it deadly?
Israel vows to fight on in Gaza despite deadly ambush and rising international pressure
https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-vows-fight-gaza-despite-081936364.html
So, why hasn’t anyone else in the UN raised this issue to the Assembly in the last 75 years?
Do you think that the writer (and yourself) just discovered a new dark secret that everyone else overlooked for 75 years?
Or more likely, perhaps your just consumed by conspiracy theories?
Israel is compressing the Gaza Palestinians into the southern border but Egypt doesn’t want them and won’t allow them to cross. I suggest Israel arrange a corridor to the West Bank that they can transit to.
————
Why Egypt doesn’t want Palestinians in Gaza to cross the border
By Scott Neuman NPR
December 12, 2023
TEL AVIV, Israel — As the bombardment of Gaza intensifies, forcing Palestinians to flee their homes, Israel’s military is directing them to the territory’s southernmost Rafah governorate. There, hemmed in by Israeli forces and the Mediterranean Sea, Palestinians seemingly have only one place to go — across the border into Egypt’s Sinai Desert.
It’s an option that Israel has apparently considered. A “concept paper” drafted by Israeli intelligence shortly after the start of the war in October proposes moving Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to tent encampments in northern Sinai and then building permanent cities. However, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office has said the report is only a hypothetical exercise.
According to Gaza’s Health Ministry, more than 17,000 people have been killed since Israel’s air and ground assault began. It came in response to the Oct. 7 Hamas attack on southern Israel, which killed 1,200 people, Israel says.
Some 85% of Gaza’s 2.3 million people have been internally displaced since the start of the war, according to the United Nations. U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres, who last week sought a Security Council resolution calling for an immediate cease-fire, which failed because of a U.S. veto, warned on Sunday that the humanitarian situation in Gaza is in free fall.
“I expect public order to completely break down soon, and an even worse situation could unfold, including epidemic diseases and increased pressure for mass displacement into Egypt,” Guterres said at an international conference in Qatar.
…
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/12/1218388766/egypt-israel-gaza-palestinians-hamas
Humpty Dumpty summed that all up with perfection. Read the book.
How good it is that the victim people are not an impostor people – I say this because the religion of the victim people is the basis of Western religion and controls the parliament of the great power USA.
It seems that despite your alleged skepticism about the existence of antisemitism, the word, or at least the adjective derived from it, still holds enough descriptive power to warrant its use by you.
That’s surely an odd remark considering the piece she wrote was based on personal visits to Arab refugee camps. (She had earlier visited Dachau.) The following piece does a sort of profile of her.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/considering-martha-gellhorn
Barbarities like circumcision and ritual slaughter of animals might be what you call “Judeo-Christian”, but they definitely aren’t Christian!
I believed Alan Dershowitz when he denied having sex with that Epstein girl, and threatened to sue her. But after seeing how easily he published his lies in his book, I am no longer so sure. In the debate with Finklestein, he appears to be a very brazen liar.
Thanks for your response Mr. Unz and for taking the time to read the article. It was used directly by the zionists of the day to promote the Israeli version of reality.
I’m putting an excerpt from an excellent article below, with a link.
Also, you might not know about a book by a prominent jewish american writer of the 50’s Alfred M. Lilienthal, who argued about the danger of Israel for American Jews in ‘What Price Israel’. Link below also.
cheers, a fan of your website. Thanks for your work!
Review of ‘What Price Israel’ from 1954
https://www.commentary.org/articles/milton-himmelfarb-2/what-price-israel-by-alfred-m-lilienthal/
Article about Gelhorn, the Atlantic, and the zionist media campaign:
https://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2010/08/17/the-israel-lobby-swims-the-atlantic/
The Israeli government and its U.S. lobby invested heavily in arguing against the return of Palestinian refugees through The Atlantic, according to yet another secret AZC report [.pdf]:
“The Atlantic Monthly in its October issue carried the outstanding Martha Gellhorn piece on the Arab refugees, which made quite an impact around the country. We arranged for the distribution of 10,000 reprints to public opinion molders in all categories. Acting on information that anti-Israel groups were bombarding the Atlantic with critical letters, we stimulated a letter campaign designed to counteract their impact. …
“Interested friends are making arrangements with the Atlantic for another reprint of the Gellhorn article to be sent to all 53,000 persons whose names appear in Who’s Who in America…
“The November issue of the Atlantic carried a special 64-page Supplement on Israel, with articles by some of Israel’s top names. …
“Our Committee is now planning articles for the women’s magazines for the trade and business publications.”
Stick your ‘Judeo-Christian’ BS up your rectum.
The tradition I see is a schism and 2000 years of animosity kept alive by Jewish hatred, ethical double standards and shyster behavior.
Furthermore, you won’t have to distance yourself. They’ll do it for you, if you speak the truth out loud. If that’s the case, I’d suggest stating your position clearly, and then give them space until and unless they come to their senses.
It’s really quite Biblical — no surprise since we’re under the thumb of the literal and spiritual descendants of the Pharisees(->Talmud->Rabbinic Judaism->Frankist-Sabbateans). One doesn’t have to be Christian to see the truth of that and understand how problematic that might be.
Thank you for the response. I read the article. You accept that Patton’s death appears to be an assassination. “I personally found the evidence for Patton’s assassination quite persuasive.” You also do not dispute the confession by the purported assassin. “There are extensive personal interviews with the self-confessed government assassin.” Is it the claim that Patton died of embolism that you disbelieve? Was Eustace Mullins the source of this claim? I didn’t say that he was murdered in the hospital, but suggested that with a syringe and limited training, an embolism could be maliciously induced. Your article does not touch upon Patton’s time in the hospital, so it does not refute the statement cited in your response.
The book “Ben Gurion’s scandals” by Naim Giladi (if memory serves) talks about this in detail. I’ve not read it yet, but you might find it interesting. It’s also amusing how half the Wikipedia entry on Naim Giladi is dedicated to refuting his claims of Zionist false flags on Iraqi Jews.
> So, let’s see if your supposition is true:
It is true that once the American Civil War had ended, all of the contemporaneous reports about the destruction in the south were laid aside for a few decades. That is exactly like what happened in World War II. In the last days of the war, you had claims flying around about gas chambers and human soap and lampshades. But a lot of this faded into the background once the war was over. Likewise, most of the talk about devastation in the south was allowed to recede after 1865. It only picked up again when the south had economically recovered. Nothing in your news citations from 1864 contradicts this.
As ususal, you’re a time waster and gadfly, Whiz.
The quotes are to give the gist of the man. Both links are Jewish sources. Take it up with them.
“clear sighted and humane young Congressman.” — Says a lot about you. One of the biggest POS ever to occupy the Oval Office, and that’s saying something.
Are you looking for the following NEWS:
Israel-Palestine: Ten Israeli soldiers, including senior colonel, killed in Gaza ambush
Meanwhile, White House national security advisor plans to travel to Israel after Joe Biden said Israel was losing international support over its ‘indiscriminate bombing’ of Gaza. (Is he really coming out of his deep sleep? I don’t think so) Biden is as criminal as Netanyahu and his mafia tribe.
TEN Israeli soldiers, including a SENIOR COLONEL who commanded a forward base of an elite infantry unit, were killed Tuesday in an ambush in northern Gaza, the army announced on Wednesday.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-soldiers-senior-colonel-killed-gaza
So, according to the report 10 IDF including a SENIOR Colonel were killed.
It wouldn’t be necessary for Patton to weave any deep conspiracy theory in order to simply provide a statement that his alleged car accident was faked. There’s no indication that he ever testified to that. From all evidence, this was a legitimate car accident which resulted in Patton being paralyzed from the neck down. The accident happened while Patton was in a car with Hobert Gay and Horace Woodring. Their Cadillac crashed into a truck driven by Robert Thompson. If there had been anything suspicious about the behavior of any of these three men (Gay, Woodring, Thompson), it would have been easy for Patton to make a statement without subscribing to any grand conspiracy theory. He never indicated any such suspicions.
If all those holocost allegations were true, how come that not one iota of verifiable forensic evidence has ever been produced?
Something along the lines that the Germans produced when they discovered the site of the Katyn Forest massacre perpetrated by the Soviets.
An argument was made that cremation destroyed all the evidence but this is a lie that any crematorium operator would understand.
Now that it is claimed that many holocost “victims” were executed by shooting or whatever and then buried, that should make the production of verifiable evidence a cinch, don’t you think?
Unfortunately Ron pulled another Unz. He first provides some Wikipedia knowledge about the Peters/Finkelstein/Dershowitz affair. He then adds the long-debunked Holohoax conspiracy, even using arguments long rejected by serious revisionists themselves (e.g. why allied leaders didn’t write about it after the war). The end result is that people like Dershowitz can now claim that only Holocaust deniers question him and his expertise. Be careful everybody. Eichmann was no philo-semite, most Zionists didn’t cooperate with Hitler, while Hitler did cooperate with the Arabs.
Atzmon now lives in Greece and expresses his views primarily on Telegram, although he also has active Facebook and X accounts.
A colonized people cannot be traitor to the Czech colonizers. The Czechs colonized even what is now part of the Ukraine.
An important technical point here is: do you actually that the original accident which paralyzed Patton from the neck down was orchestrated by a conspiracy? Or do you simply think that Patton was assassinated on the spur of the moment after an unintended accident had already effectively put him out of action? Neither claim is very credible, but one should be specific about any hypothesis made.
Patton’s paralysis would have largely ended his capacity to act as a political threat to anyone. So, a conspiratorial angle would make more sense if we tried to assume that the accident which paralyzed Patton was somehow rigged up. But there’s no evidence that Patton thought it was. Supposedly, Patton picked a dog and let the dog sit in the front while he went to the back. Shortly after, the accident happened. If Patton had stayed in the front of the vehicle, he probably would have been alright. That doesn’t really sound like the work of a conspiracy.
As for the possibility of Patton somehow done away with after the accident, it’s hard to see why that would have been necessary. His career was over because of that accident. He was paralyzed from the neck down. If no conspiracy had been made to kill him before the accident, then it’s hard to imagine that anyone would have bothered with it afterwards.
Well, …. isn’t this interesting, coming from the Gateway Pundit, just about as one-sidedly pro-Israel (whilst at the same time, also being vehemently pro-Trump) in its coverage of the conflict all along, but particularly since October 7th, 2023:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/12/billionaire-hamas-head-ismail-haniyeh-begs-negotiations-as/
Let’s think this through. Let’s use the 10 to 1 metric apparent in tit-for-tat action on the overall Israeli vs. Palestinian historical conflict. Through that lens, Netanyahu (through the IDF mouthpiece mentioned) is implicitly saying that Hamas should now arrange to put a bounty on his own head, to assassinate him, … offering $4,000,000 , ….. i.e. – it should take 10x as much enticement to attract a ‘kill-Netanyahu’ Palestinian crazy person …. and I’m saying ‘crazy’ because this kind of bounty action, for either type of Palestinian crazy person within the conflict (the other kind of Palestinian crazy person being the kind that might take the $400,000 offer to arrange for the death of the Hamas leader), will put a giant target on the successful bounty-hunter’s head for evermore, … not so smart, on the personal front.
So I guess it is OK now, … just by the logic of Israel/Jews telling the rest of us all what to think (media control), … to now go around suggesting Hamas should use some of the pro-Hamas billionaire funds they have access to, to offer a $4,000,000 bounty on Netanyahu’s dead hide? (that is, if we are going by the historical tit-for-tat logic of the conflict, all round, … and after all, …. a Netanyahu assassinator probably risks about 10x the chance of being caught and made into a massive scapegoat than a Hamas-leader assassinator, …. so the laws of the marketplace suggest that the hit should be worth 10x more)?
Crazy – huh? What in the devil is Netanyahu doing? Maybe purposely making himself into the embodiment of the Christian Zionist notion of the Anti-Christ? Sure looks that way. Just so nuts. We still do not really fully understand what is going on here, within the most insular Jewish circles of faux-west globalist power. Methinks Jewish esotericism and occultism, mysteriously, hold quite a bit of sway, over this dynamic – this Hasidic Judaism as outlined by Chaim Potok in his novels. We still are not seeing it all (all the strangeness that is Israel).
I only quickly glanced at the Mullins article, and it’s perfectly possible that everything he wrote was 100% correct. But since he was a notorious fabricator, relying upon him for anything is a terrible idea, and citing him is just as bad.
I remember a few years ago I was reading an article by Revilo Oliver, one of the leading Far Right academics. He mentioned that he was once talking with Mullins about something, and the latter made some very surprising statement. So Oliver told him it was obviously incorrect. Mullins responded by saying he never cared whether anything he said was true or false, just that it provided him a useful stick to beat the Jews.
Similarly, that Gordon Duff fellow had publicly bragged that 40% of everything he says is a lie. Would you really rely upon him for anything?
It’s bad enough having to rely upon fringe sources. But relying upon fringe sources known for their dishonesty is a disastrous strategy.
About 4 of the earliest neoconservatives had some very limited past connections with a Trotskyist group. Bill King gave a coherent summary here:
https://enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0304/0304neocontrotp1.htm
https://enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0304/0304neocontrotp2.htm
Let’s think this through some more.
Further to my comment #435, ….. didn’t Bush 2 offer some ludicrous bounties (at least a million bucks) for Islamic hides during his presidency? For the ‘American-hegemonic-brute’ component of the ‘faux-west globalists/ dumb-American-hegemonic-brute/Israeli interests’ triangulation, …. the marketplace ratio of bounties offered for assassinations, for those at figurehead within the American-hegemonic-brute component, would have to probably be about 100x what it would be for the bounty on an Islamic hide, … taking the much much huger risk of being caught and made into a massive scapegoat if you assassinated the American figurehead, into account.
Mmmmm. $100,000,000 for Bush 2’s head on a pike, during the aftermath of 9/11 ….. why wasn’t that offered by the billionaire Islamists? (In other words, why is Bush 2 still alive?). Look, …. my western Canadian Muslim regular run-of-the mill work colleagues, of the early 1990’s (in the wake of the Kuwait conflict), already were painting the precise geopolitical dynamic around Israel and the JQ-behaviors that makes ‘Israel’ possible, that we now all clearly see and can no longer pretend was just some Islamic ‘sour grapes’ (as they all heard their Imams in their mosques spelling this out, way way back at that time … and would tell you all about it, if you expressed interest, over coffee and lunch break convos). The early 1990’s! That’s a long time. Is this apparent Islamist reticence to go personal-threats-mode (when their adversaries do on the regular) …. is this really superior forbearance or is it something else? I don’t get it. You would think it should be fairly easy to kill anyone, anywhere, on the face of the earth, if the assassinator is skilled and determined (but successfully getting away afterwards, … that part might not be so easy, … but then on the other hand, …. $100,000,000 …. can you buy some safe harbor, somewhere in the Islamic world, with that kind of dough?)
Patrick McNally @ 437 (reply functions again not working):
“About 4 of the earliest neoconservatives had some very limited past connections with a Trotskyist group. ”
LOL.
And none of the prophets are alive today, so no Zionists have any past connection with them.
You are a silly billy.
The Social Revolutionaries repeatedly won in elections amongst the peasantry. That’s about as close as one can come to determining what was popular. It’s also the case that the SRs had more of what you would call “Khazars” than the Bolsheviks had. Chaim Zhitlovsky, Abram Gots, Pinchas Rutenberg, Fannie Kaplan are just some of the better-known names. The Mensheviks were the political faction which had the largest share of Jewish members, with leaders like Julius Martov, Fyodor Dan, Raphael Abramovitch. Only White pogroms forced most Jews to eventually default towards supporting the Bolsheviks in the Russian Civil War. But the same thing happened at a slower pace among the general population.
—–
Finally the volunteer army occupied Kiev and this became master of the situation in the Ukraine… The village was again made happy with the landed proprietors of blessed memory. The land was returned to its former owners. Then came the famous order about the third sheaf which the peasant had to give up to the landed proprietor… The peasant in the Ukraine began to use the same methods of fighting the new government as he used against the previous one. Suddenly and with quick precision there grew up before Denikin’s army the internal front already described.
—–
— Elias Heifetz, The Slaughter of the Jews in the Ukraine, p. 102.
If Denikin had simply been willing to accept that the politics of the SRs were what peasants supported. then he could have avoided such conflicts and restricted his role to a purely military one of defeating the Red Army. But none of the White commanders were willing to recognize those terms and so they lost support whenever they seemed to have gained a victory.
—–
It is logical to assume that the leaders of the White movement saw their supreme goal as a resolute struggle against Bolshevism. Yet they were not willing for the sake of the supreme goal to seek a compromise with other political forces. Bolshevism was defined broadly. As a liberal Russian historian, Sergey Melgunov, put it: “the very notion ‘Bolshevik’ was so vague that one could mean anything at all by it.” The Socialist Revolutionaries were certainly “Bolsheviks.” Peasants who resisted the draft were also “Bolsheviks.” Workers who clamored for higher wages were “Bolsheviks” as well. General M. K. Dieterichs, at one point the commander in chief, in a private conversation with another general defined the supreme goal in eradicating all leftist currents: “[It is] enough tp play with the followers of Kerensky and Chernov.”
—–
— Vladimir Brovkin, Behind the Front Lines, pp. 193-4.
It was always clear that this type of White politics was totally unworkable and would only play to the advantage of the Bolsheviks. None of that was brought about by Jacob Schiff or any imaginary Rothschild-conspiracy. It was just the stupid arrogance of the Whites themselves.
Peasants weren’t gulled by anyone. All of the evidence shows that whenever they were given some space for political expression their supported tended overwhelmingly to the Social Revolutionaries. The SRs were the party which had historically built its legacy as advocates for the peasants. During 1917, the decision to remain in the war meant that Kerensky choice to postpone any measures of land reform because he knew would desert the army if they heard that land redistribution was happening in their home village. That enticed Lenin into advocating a land redistribution program of his own. But it was always clear that this was just a short-term political maneuver that didn’t have the same level of long-term commitment as the SR-program.
Peasants who carried out major land-confiscations throughout the countryside were not acting because they had been somehow fooled by Lenin. They did so because this was the program which they were impatient to see the SRs enact. The peasant rebellions across the countryside in the later part of 1917 were crucial in making it possible for Kerensky to be overthrown in the cities in November 1917. But none of that was about peasants being gulled anywhere.
Once the actual civil war had begun in 1918, everything hinged upon the ability of the Whites to show that were willing to accept the ramifications of the peasant rebellion.
—–
The worldview of the Whites was profoundly conservative. They reckoned that peasant conscripts would do their service, barred from politics, and that would suffice to win. They believed they could win the civil war against the Red Army without the support of the dumas, or trade unions, or peasants or workers. Clearly this approach doomed the White cause from the very beginning.
—–
— Vladimir Brovkin, Behind the Front Lines, p. 195.
Pretzel, isn’t that what I previously wrote? Patton was belligerent as heck, in general, yet he was silent after his accident? It’s out of character, and likely due to the knowledge he wouldn’t be around to protect his family.
Have the official investigation records been released? I don’t think so. Why not?
I will assume you’ve seen the photos of the vehicle’s front-end smashed to bits? It doesn’t look like a low velocity collision.
What happened to the two drivers? I see this report everywhere:
On 13 December, an investigation determined that Private Woodring and the truck driver, T/5 Robert L. Thompson, had been careless, though not at fault. Neither was disciplined.
That’s unusual. Careless driving, especially if a death occurs as a result, is a moving violation and charges of manslaughter often result. A world famous general, an American hero, is killed due to carelessness, which is dereliction of duty, and they don’t even get their hands slapped?
I’ve read this, once or twice, but I can’t cite a specific source:
At first the crash seemed minor, the vehicles were hardly damaged, no one in the truck was hurt, and Gay and Woodring were uninjured.
Wikipedia:
[…] He also resisted Eisenhower’s orders to evict Germans from their homes in order to house Jews….Patton spent most of the next 12 days in spinal traction to decrease the pressure on his spine. All non-medical visitors except Patton’s wife Beatrice, who had flown from the U.S., were forbidden.
The end.
So, who could he tell, if it’s true access to his hospital room was restricted?
Detroit Evening Times October 14, 1945
Patton Sounds War Warning
Wiesbaden, Germany, Oct. 13 (UP) – Gen. George S. Patton was on report today with a statement that an “inevitable” third World War will destroy the United States unless America is “armed and prepared.” (Patton was reported slightly injured today in an automobile accident near his headquarters.)
Patton affirmed in a press release that “ we must have universal military training.” He declined to forecast combatants in the next World War, asserting that “since we cannot determine when or where such unbalanced individuals will appear, it is impossible to prophesy when or whom we shall next fight.”
Detroit Evening Times December 14, 1945, page C – 15
Washington Scene
By George Dixon
[…] However, I have a column I would like to print, but cannot do so now without explaining what happened. It involves the man whose fate has saddened millions of Americans – Gen. George S Patton.
In this business, columns of necessity are written several days in advance. And it so happened I had a piece of inside stuff, brought back directly from the great hero…. When the news came through of Gen. Patton’s accident, the office wanted to know what to do about the column, and all I could think of at the time was to kill it and substitute another. But a couple of days later one of my editors said he thought it should be run anyway, and as much as the information was directly from Patton, so here’s the column that didn’t appear:
Present plans call for Gen. George S Patton to return to this country early next month, a prospect which is causing no end of trepidation. Too many of our better-known citizens are afraid he will talk. These better-known citizens know only too well that Patton can blast the pants off many a high-class reputation, if he chooses. They know he has the ammunition, and a good shooting eye. Now that we started horsing around with metaphors, let’s give ‘em a good mixing. Patton has taken a lot in silence, but if he ever opens up the floodgates – it’s a case of run for the hills, men, and no women and children first.
Patton has taken it on the chin in silence, because he’s a soldier. And, as long as he continues to remain a soldier, his lips will stay sealed. But heaven help a lot of people if next month sees private citizen Patton going around, un-gagged: many overtures have been made to Patton in attempts to keep him under wraps. Offers of many sorts have been made. But he will decline them all. There is only one job – and one only – that he will consent to take. And that is president of the war college here.
Patton can do any of three things when he comes back. Having more than 40 years of army service behind him, he can retire on pension, or he can wait another four years until he reaches the automatic retirement age of 64…..
The end.
I don’t think his murder is/was a grand conspiracy theory; it was a Grand Actuality.
Stick to cherry trees, Pretzel.
You’re the nitwit here. Read over the summary provided by Bill King in the links that I give. Even Irving Kristol never actually joined the Socialist Workers Party, which would have been a fundamental requirement to be recognized as “Trotskyist” in 1940. It’s pretty absurd that Leon Trotsky directed his followers to denounce the Roosevelt administration’s war as “imperialist,” yet dimwitted paleo-cons today try to claim that that somehow the invasion of Iraq was motivated by “Trotskyism.”
10 minute compilation of the Judeo side of the tradition you’re trying to sleaze off on us.
https://rumble.com/v24xqrm-in-their-own-words-edom-is-america.-edom-must-be-destroyed-and-wiped-off-th.html
The aggressive cancer of amorality and sadism has destroyed the already weakened soul of jewish tribe: “Supremacism inevitably leads to crime, ” by Thierry Meyssan
https://www.voltairenet.org/article220139.html
Zionist Jews are an order worse than German fascists during WWII. Similar to Ukrainian followers of Stepan Bandera, Zionists enjoy torturing, crippling, and mass-murdering children. At least, Germans have never whined about their “victimhood,” and they have never engaged in the greedy business of extracting hefty sums from decent people by using a suspiciously unreliable yet profitable schema of “shoah business.” Zionists are criminals to the bones.
So one had to be a member of the SWP in order to be a Trotskyite? My late friend David was active in the SWP for a number of years and then there was a break. He remained enamored with Trotsky, but was no longer a gang member.
The Neocon Straussians were a variety of permanent revolution Trotskyism. They still remain in their Straussian dogmas, however snaked their way into calling themselves “conservatives”. Anything but conservative, but political reality in our ruptured republic is dominated by the Bank$ters, particularly the several Talmudist crime clans who constitute the ownership circle of the Feral Reserve Bank. As Talmudists, Robert Kagan being Khazarian royalty, as was Lazar Kaganovich; the neos are anything but conservative and are traitors to the republic and the Bill of Rights.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/gaza-school-attack
Well, “Patrick McNally” is a notorious prevaricator, who can’t really be trusted about anything, but in this case he happens to be entirely correct. If you’re interested, I published a long article regarding to origins and rise of the Neocons a few months back, which included this clarifying paragraph:
https://www.unz.com/runz/the-neocons-and-their-rise-to-power/
It’s partly a matter of semantic confusion. Most of the founding generation of the Neocons had their roots in the non-Stalinist sectarian Left, of which the Trotskyites were one of the most prominent components. So in a lazy fashion, lots of people just called them all “Trotskyites,” and since some of the Neocons actually had been Trotskyites, the term stuck.
“The hardest thing for me to understand is why Arabs don’t stick up for each other”.
Sir, the 22 Arab countries are ruled by very oppressive regimes that run the daily affairs with an iron fist.
They will hurt you and your family very badly if you dare talk about politics.
The intelligence services or mukhabarat spy on everyone in buses, crowded markets, mosques and even family gatherings.
There is a saying used in Iraq, Syria and Egypt that goes ” you’ll disappear behind the sun”. Your family will never find you, no lawyers, visits, medics, proper food, etc etc etc.
Prisoners in Egypt have no light in their cells.
That’s why.
Arab regimes are way worse than Israel even.
Because they are dictators run by england, the US and France.
It’s called neo-colonialism.
That’s why Hamas’ attack is so espectacular and out of place.
The last event that tried to do something about all this was the Arab Spring but it died in Syria.
Well, I’d emphasized that she seemed like an excellent journalist, and indeed the first two-thirds of the article covered her visits with the Palestinian refugees, whom she found to be very fine people.
But I think she concluded that they were horribly brainwashed by dangerous, crazy propaganda. For example, they seemed to claim that the Zionists had cooperated with Hitler to create Israel and that Hitler’s alleged killing of six million Jews was wildly exaggerated. Also, they claimed that the Zionists had massacred large numbers of peaceful Palestinians and violently driven them out of their homeland. So after she spent the last one-third of her article visiting Israel and found that the Israelis seemed like nice people, she reasonably concluded that it would be dangerous for Israel to allow people who had been so massively brainwashed back inside their country.
The problem is that everything they were saying was more or less true, and instead it had been Gellhorn who had been brainwashed. But she can’t really be blamed in those pre-Internet/pre-Amazon days.
The Atlantic article is very long, something like 20,000 words, but if you read it, you’ll see what I mean.
Apparently, Gellhorn had just covered the Eichmann trial, and heard all the gripping eye-witness testimony that Eichmann had been a horrific fiend who’d helped exterminate all the Jews in Europe. But Eichmann had actually been the main SS liaison officer with the Zionists, a philo-Semite who’d studied Hebrew, and the Israelis had to kill him to cover up their Nazi partnership of the 1930s. If Gellhorn had known those facts, she probably would have fainted dead away.
Thanks, that’s very interesting. Pro-Israel activists have always been excellent at their media propaganda, and I think that the mass distribution of that Gellhorn article was probably extremely cost-effective.
At this point I can thank you for plausibly explaining a tendency to over emphasise the neocons slight connection with Trotskyism . And I seeem to have misssed or not closely read some of your previous attacks on neocons. So I shall postpone any attempt to get you to think more flexibly about neocons byy seeing them as would-be WASP successors as elitists taking over the benign functions of the British Empire. Hpwever I will stick my neck out. prrhaps dangerously, by saying that, years bsck, I got to know Nathan Glazer and his charming intelligent Tamil wife quite well at conferences where we dined together at least a couple of times. Perhaps it was the subcontinental connection that made me imagine Glazer as more of am imperial successor than a Zionist. I also got to know and like Paul Gross whom
I remember as still recalling antisemitism in the 1950s (or 60s?) if not scarred by it. But I woildn’t have associated him with neo cons. Should I have?
Is there solid evidence of an alliance between Zionists and Nazis that you have access to, with links perhaps?
Joseph P. Farrell has presented some evidence that the Nazis managing economic matters started to get dissatisfied with Hitler’s management of the war and smelled future defeat and took steps to accommodate the Americans. He goes as far as claiming that the US atom bomb lacked enriched uranium and Germany provided the remaining enriched uranium via a submarine to the USA. Operation paper clip was the tip of the iceberg. Many Nazis were allowed safe passage out of Germany and were allowed to keep and invest some of their wealth from their new homes in South America.
They are like infants in the womb being fed through the umbilical cord by the West. They have invested their vast wealth in the West and especially the USA. They import most of their goods from the West, and the lifestyle of luxury the Arab sheikhs enjoy is a reward for their obedience to the master. The master allows them to sell their oil (while sanctioning that of Iran, Russia, Venezuela) in exchange they must recycle some of it with purchases of US arms and Western goods (industrial and agricultural, and luxury goods) and spend the rest on palaces and luxury buildings but not in developing their indigenous scientific, industrial, and technological capabilities.
They actually stick together well, that is the Arab countries who are US vassals. and form the bulk of the Arab world. Lone Syria is managed by Russia which is allied with Israel under the table. Iraq when dissenting is threatened with sanctions and quickly obeys. Palestinians of course are excluded from this club.
Huh? Too deep for me.
You write: “As I’ve emphasized before, Eustace Mullins was a pretty disreputable character, widely denounced in conspiratorial anti-Semitic Far Right circles as a notorious liar and fabricator, making it very difficult to trust anything he wrote.”
My response: I don’t regard Eustace Mullins as a disreputable character.
I read most of his books in the late 1980s. His book “The Secrets of the Federal Reserve” is excellent, and his book “Murder by Injection” helped open my eyes to the evils of the medical establishment. Certainly Mullins made some mistakes, but I don’t regard him as a notorius liar and fabricator.
Without wishing to quibble too much with the facts you assert, especially as I am no master of relevant details, I question the the logic of “the Israelis had to kill him to cover up their Nazi. W partnrrship of the 1930s”. Why did it become important in the late 1950s? Why wasn’t hauling into court in Israel risking the opposite of the desired result? And of you say they had some way of preventing that, how could they be sure it would justify a kidnapping in Argentina and creating a forum for Eichman and his lawyers while the whole world was watching. I acknowledge that Eichman had drawn attention to homself by giving some interview. But I can’t see that motivation to shut him up as standing out as the plausible one fo?r his abduction and killing. Don’t you think ot more likely that he stood out as someone to make an example of for harming Jews
I once saw an interview with David Irving, where he said, that unless you reinforce the walls of the pits for mass-graves with wooden structures, then you can dig about a meter before then wall comes down on you. Since the volume of a grown person was about a cubic meter (Irving said this in the same interview), you need about a square meter for every corpse.
If the Germans had really buried half of the alleged 6 million holocause victims in pits, then there would be around 3 million square meters of undiscovered Jewish mass-graves somewhere in Eastern Europe.
Sure, it’s all based upon absolutely solid historical sources, and elements of it were even covered in the elite MSM decades ago, though not these days. I discussed most of it in a long 2018 article that you should read, which also provides references to the underlying sources:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-jews-and-nazis/
However, your other claims are the total crackpottery found in lunatic fringe sources, and you should disregard it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually promoted by Zionist activists to make their critics look ridiculous.
Well, I’ve never read any of his books, and its perfectly possible that much or most of their information was correct. But since he was a pathological liar and a notorious fabricator, it would be too much effort for me to separate the truths from the falsehoods, so I don’t bother.
For example, I think he claimed that the Lindbergh baby was killed in a ritualistic Jewish murder, which seems very doubtful to me, and he also had a bad habit of claiming that anyone he didn’t like was “a Jew.” Maybe he was secretly being subsidized by the ADL to make their opponents look ridiculous.
Just read my 2018 article on the subject:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-jews-and-nazis/
I find it extremely suspicious that the first and only Nazi the Israelis decided needed to be tracked down and killed had actually been their closest Nazi ally and liaison officer, the individual who had the best first-hand information regarding the crucial Nazi-Zionist economic partnership that laid the basis for the creation of the state of Israel.
Thanks. I should have read the article.
{I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually promoted by Zionist activists to make their critics look ridiculous.}
AGREE.
Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are indeed very profound works of philosophical fiction. I was referring to the famous sentence by a character in the latter book:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumptyism
You write: “Well, I’ve never read any of his books, and its perfectly possible that much or most of their information was correct.”
My response: If you can find the time to read it, in my opinion Eustace Mullins’s book “The Secrets of the Federal Reserve” is his best book. It may not be a good as “The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin, but it is certainly a major contribution to the subject. Griffin cites Mullins’s book both in the text and Bibliography of his book.
You write about Eustace Mullins: “But since he was a pathological liar and a notorious fabricator, it would be too much effort for me to separate the truths from the falsehoods, so I don’t bother.”
My response: Eustace Mullins was not a pathological liar and a notorious fabricator. You are using a statement from Revilo Oliver and other vague references to attempt to totally discredit him.
You write: “Maybe he was secretly being subsidized by the ADL to make their opponents look ridiculous.”
My reponse: There is no credible evidence that I know of that Eustace Mullins was subsidized by the ADL. If you can find any evidence for your speculation, please let me know.
Very well said.
Agree 100%. Along with Anthony Sutton, they were a strong light in this dark world of lies, misinformation, perpetuated by the evil NWO INTERNATIONALIST cabal, bent on enslaving the human race. And if anyone has any doubts of their existence, here’s the quote on record of one of its high level priests:
“Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal, working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists,’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it”.
David Rockefeller Memoirs page 405.
Let’s see if Ron Unz can dispute this.
The argument is not that people/journalists/historians often arise to make analysis of historical happenings once the dust settles; the argument is that the official story of the so-called Holocaust deviated wildly from the initial information; the new/revised story, arriving decades later, insults the limits of probability and scientific possibilities; AND it deviates wildly amongst the survivors themselves.
The standard of analysis between those two events is completely different; if a Jewish person left Germany in early 1939, that person was a victim of the Holocaust. If a Georgian left Atlanta in late 1863, they were not victims of Sherman’s march. Nor did they qualify for a lifetime of reparation payments.
Yes, and do you know what else was flying around before 1939? That’s right, Pretzel – Six million Jews are in peril! Six million must perish before our Lord (Moloch?) returns to help us manage the Cattle! (I made some of that up – they don’t (publicly) use the term Moloch, and they only use the term cattle in their Talmud and/or amongst themselves). But, rumors of gas chambers were around after WW1, and you know it, Pretzel.
Kindly explain to me why 6 million murdered was not adjusted after the Dachau gas chamber allegations and the 4 million murdered at A-B allegation were/was refuted/withdrawn?
And, why is it that the only gas chamber allegations still standing are those alleged to be in the camps liberated by the Soviets, or those formerly in Eastern Europe?
My news citations revealed that the data reported was consistent amongst various sources, and that was my point. It was never deemed false because it wasn’t false. It did not take 25 years to conclude on what happened in Georgia during the Civil War, and unlike the so-called Holocaust, anyone is free to investigate or object to the claims made by the witnesses/soldiers/politicians.
The Holocaust dies in brightness, Pretzel. You know it’s true.
Any new revelations on the Cherry Tree or the banging of Sally by Thomas?
That’s what they all say, Sweetiebuns.
The more I learn of the Nakba the less respect I have for the Zionists and their shilling boot lickers.
Jews, in their bible, brag of their genocide of: Canaan, the Midianites, Jericho, Ai, Makkedah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir, and Hazor. What do you think they are up to in Palestine and what other genocides do you think their bloodthirsty g-d will command next?
It seems you like to use or cite the term CONSPIRACY THEORY. Let me let you in on a little secret then.
The term “conspiracy theory” was invented and put into public discourse by the CIA in 1964 in order to discredit the many skeptics who challenged the Warren Commission’s conclusion that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald, who himself was assassinated while in police custody before he could be questioned. The CIA used its friends in the media to launch a campaign to make suspicion of the Warren Commission report a target of ridicule and hostility. This campaign was “one of the most successful propaganda initiatives of all time.”
So writes political science professor Lance deHaven-Smith, who in his peer-reviewed
book, Conspiracy Theory in America, published by the University of Texas Press, tells the
story of how the CIA succeeded in creating in the public mind reflexive, automatic, stigmatization of those who challenge government explanations.
By the way, Bret Stephens is a slimy fake news reporter writing for the slimy NYT, a paper which is a primary corporate tool of the criminal NWO cabal.
When the Jews rejected Christ, Judaism became the antithesis of Christianity.
The Jews were cursed and cast out of God’s Kingdom. Judeo-Christian is a
logical absurdity except in a linear, historical sense.
Further update to USA being globally isolated in what is correctly called “shameful behavior” elsewhere on UR.
Nicholas Maduro publicises that USA has spent (so far) $32,000,000,000 in weapons and Ammo for kikes to kill children in Gaza.
You could update lots of infrastructure for that.
Not to mention $137B more on Jew war 1 in Ukraine.
As a further sign that Mad Dog is appropriate, US gives assurance of assistance for Israeli assault on Hezbollah if negotiations fail. The very idea that Hezbollah will negotiate with the Hyena or retreat behind the Litani River is itself laughable.
Second, as houthi continue attacks on Israel bound shipping and the port of Eilat now lies empty, major shipping lines declare a “pause” on entering Red Sea.
There is now the possibility that the floating coffins of USN will sail around to give combat to Houthi, who almost certainly have Iranian ship-sinking missiles and are eagerly awaiting Captain America’s arrival.
More strategic planning catastrophe from Keystone Kops aka US military.
As illustration/JFYI
https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/3935
This tg has vdo of Iranian surveillance of USS Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group exiting Persian Gulf (maybe to meet Houthi). It contains following exchange —
I have been searching for the video I once discovered of American soldiers in Iraq/Middle East speaking on their realization that the U.S. government had lied to its citizens about everything. I few of them went AWOL. They suffered to abandon their fellow soldiers, knowing they might soon be dead. They made some interesting observations, including being fired upon by the soldiers of our greatest ally. If I find it, I will post it.
Pat Tillman was an American hero/soldier, who apparently had a clue and spoke on it. Friendly fire shut him up.
Patton had Irish ancestry; of course he did. Supreme scrappers if there ever were any.
Maybe someday there will be a reckoning.
Here’s a 4 minute speech of the Fuhrer – ever the war monger – speaking to Germany’s youth – “We want to be one people…We want to see no more class divisions….We want our people to love peace, but also to be brave. And you must be peace loving….Because you are the flesh of our flesh, and the blood of our blood. And in your young heads burns the same spirit that rules us. You cannot be other than united with us…. Before us, Germany lies, in us Germany burns, and behind us Germany follows.”
https://truthpodium.org/v/jHHLUN
I was about to try a “yes, but….” when it occurred to me that even if he was only one of twenty they would like to silence it was much better to kidnap him in Argentina and extract him than to do so in Europe where, nnonetheless, the message would be received that the prime witnesses had better not draw attention to themselves by uttering indiscreet truths.
Mind you I don’t really understand the Israeli sensitivity to mention of the Havara agreement etc though it mighthave included fears that the murderous terrorism and Nazi connections of the likes of Yiitzhak Shamir might get air time. But it is surely just stupid habit that got Ken Livingstone ousted much more recdntly d by British Labour friends of Israel when he mentioned early 30s German realities.
Still, to stop me using my now slow reading on a merely interesting subject can you tell me what hold the Israelis used to stop it all cooming out at the trial? I guess he did still have children and maybe grandchildren who matterred to him even though he could only hope to see them rarely. Right,?
Yes, I also thought it a little ironic that Ken Livingston was purged for merely repeating the same “conspiracy theory” that had been widely presented in the august Times of London and other elite newspapers several decades earlier. Shades of George Orwell…
Well, my analysis was entirely speculative and here’s what I’d written in 2018:
As far as I know, I’m the first and only person to suggest that hypothesis. But I do think it’s probably more than coincidence that the first and only Nazi leader the Israelis made such enormous efforts to track down and kill had been previously been their closest ally and collaborator.
And while I have a moment of your attention allow me to proffer somethi g worthy of analysis and judgment by the aithor of the American Pravda series:
How do you think it rates against American Pravda, and is it not likely to backfire against Russia? Do you think Amrtica still commands the cunning and brainpower to turn it againdt Russia?
For those living in the land of the free and the home of the brave remember not to say “merry CHRISTmas”, this season.
You’re to say: happy holidays.
Why?
Because CHRISTmas got the word Christ in there and it might upset certain people.
Careful.
Just for the record, and to acknowledge my mistake: I misinterpreted your comment, and reacted in haste — I did not read and consider the entire context carefully, perhaps partly because I immediately recalled your recent article where Hispanic IQ vis-a-vis white IQ was a topic (I disagreed with some of what you said there) — so my apologies, and thanks for your answer.
51 Questions and Answers–Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis by Lenni Brenner
I think it is available as a PDF.
“a very odd coincidence” – It is not odd. They knew him from the time in Austria before war when he was very helpful and very effective in organizing Jewish emigration and thus in retrospect saving lives od 10’s od 1000’s of Jews (many of whom ended up in Israel). Only later he got involved in being equally effective in organizing transports from Hungary in 1944 to concentration camps. And before that in 1939 he was involved in not so well known Nisko project that was cancelled by Himmler and Frank in 1940.
On behalf of one Jewish functionary whom he knew very well he even went personally to Auschwitz because this Jew requested his help via the commandant of the camp Rudolph Hoss.
I strongly recommend reading Hannah Arendt’s book. It appears there is a fabric of reality that apparently you are missing like a person who writes about chicken soup on the base of cookbooks while never cooking it and never eating it.
Is the Ooze really this stupid, and desperate as his beloved Banderites are crushed, or is he just doing his dooty for the Great White, Western,Exceptional, God Chosen Empire? The concept of the lying BBC sewer ‘exposing’ ANYONE, even Beelzebub himself, as ‘lying’ is truly hilarious.
But to hold a trial was to expose Israel to the very possibility you say they were trying to avoid, because Eichmann could then talk. A clandestine execution in Argentina would have avoided that possibility altogether, so why wasn’t this the preferred course of action?
Furthermore, there is a long interview with Eichmann made by one Willem Sassen in Argentina. Did Eichmann reveal anything that has any connection with Israel in that interview? The tapes were even used at the trial as incriminating evidence against him.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-eichmann-tapes
Feigning terminal naivetee’ and rampant dementia, again, are we Ooze? Livingstone was crucified, and still is by the likes of the loathsome Deborah Lipstadt, as an ‘antisemite’, because he spoke of a forbidden topic. Mention ANY topic that the Zionazis have decreed verboten, say the Nakba, Deir Yassin, the Haavara Agreement etc, all of which the Zionazis have declared never occurred and must never be mentioned, and you show yourself to be a ‘Jew-hater’ and ‘antisemite’.
And, I hate to remind you Ooze, but you mentioned Haavara yourself, you old Nazi, you. I just reported you to Colin Rubenstein, and, shudder, Sharri Markson. Better start checking under your car every time you think to start it up.
I see you’re quoting the BBC regarding Ukraine. Perhaps you should take a look at this long article by Jonathan Cook that we just published regarding the BBC’s utterly dishonest coverage of the Israel/Gaza conflict:
https://www.unz.com/jcook/why-is-the-media-ignoring-evidence-of-israels-own-actions-on-7-october/
If the BBC is a pack of total liars regarding Gaza, why would you trust them regarding Russia/Ukraine?
‘…I am no master of relevant details…’ There you have it, from the horse’s mouth. Masterly understatement, in fact. Never stopped you, though, did it?
I’ll admit I’ve never bothered reading that Arendt book, but I suspect that I know certain things about it that you do not…
Back around 15 years ago when I was busy with my archive digitization project, I happened to stumble across some very interesting articles and exchanges in the leading Jewish NYC publications regarding Arendt and her book.
As you may or may not know, although Arendt’s Eichmann book was very widely praised all across America and regarded as a great classic, she was ferociously and viciously attacked for writing it by a large segment of the NYC Jewish intelligentsia, on grounds that utterly mystified everyone else, even including the remainder of the NYC Jewish intelligentsia.
The whole situation was a huge puzzle, both at the time and afterward. However, I eventually discovered that in some of her private correspondence following that trip to Israel, she’d basically denounced the Israelis and their government as a bunch of bloodthirsty lunatics, as they’d revealed themselves to be at the trial. I strongly suspect that some of that correspondence had somehow gotten into circulation, and those strongly pro-Israel Jews who became aware of it were the ones who so viciously attacked her for her rather bland book. Furthermore, I think most of her correspondence was originally written in German and I also discovered that the English edition of her letters was much, much shorter than the German original, suggesting that a significant fraction of her letters had been excluded out of that version. However, it’s been fifteen years and the details are fuzzy in my mind.
Anyway, the Holocaust is obviously just a hoax, so why would I want to read a silly book about a totally fictional event? I have a few novels sitting around unread that are probably much more realistic and better written.
Would I want to read a book describing the precise details of how Hamas beheaded forty Israeli babies?
Well, the 1930s Nazi-Zionist economic partnership was the deadliest possible danger to the Jewish State if it leaked out in 1960. In fact, an important Israeli official had already been assassinated just a couple of years earlier, probably to help ensure it stayed secret.
With Eichmann facing the hangman, isn’t it a little odd he never mentioned anything about it to the crowd of international journalists covering the trial? He was the Nazi figure who knew the details better than anyone else in the world and he could have destroyed Israel in his own Sampson Option.
As I pointed out in my article, that may have been the real reason he was kept in a sealed glass booth, allowing the sound to be turned off at a moment’s notice.
If you don’t agree, why don’t you suggest why Eichmann didn’t spill the beans on his way to the gallows.
This is false unruly scholarship. You cite the Iraqi manipulation to force the Jews to immigrate to the newly formed Israel, a story mostly unverified that I have heard before. But you ignore the forced expulsion of the Egypt Jews under Naser, and the expulsion of the Jews from most of the Arab countries like Syria, Morocco, etc. Jews had to give up their land, their bank accounts etc. Yet Israel took in every refugee. The Arabs on the other hand refused to allow the Palestinians to immigrate to Arab countries and kept them in refugee camps. They refused citizenship to Arab refugees.
You suggest that it was always the desire of the Zionist to expel all of the Palestinians from Israel, but you fail to mention that the Arab countries refused to let the Palestinians to refugees immigrate as equal part of a manipulation to keep these Palestinians refugees living in tents, permanent refugee status as a political football to delegitimize Israel, 3rd generation Palestinians living in tents with keys to their homes from Palestine in their hands. What is the sense of that?
There have been population transfers through out Europe from war to war. Parts of Poland changed hands 3 or 4 times with original populations not being allowed to return. The separation of the Muslims and the Hindu and creation of Pakistan.
You also fail in your scholarship to admit the core problems with Islam accepting any Jewish sovereignty which they deserve as much as the Arabs. The problems within Islam of accepting non Muslims as equal. These are hue areas that contribute to this dispute, that you ignore.
I personally know hundreds of evicted Syrians living in NY, Persians living in Long Island. Vast communities of expats to Arab lands. Believe me they had no choice and left with nothing. That is the story from the people that left.
You show nothing but bias, and a failure to acknowledge the other side. Like not even mentioning the expelled Jews.
You lost your mind. You are beyond help.
Thanks, I didn’t know those details. I haven’t made up my mind about your hypothesis, but I suppose they could have envisioned the trial as a dual purpose thing, better than a simple execution without a trial which would not promote Holocaust awareness as much or at all.
As for not having mentioned anything earlier to Sassen, I suppose Sassen might not be interested in Israel, so who knows?
Oh, OK. Wish I had thought of that! It perfectly describes many here who want to ascribe their own definitions to words like genocide or laws of war.
Top leadership of Israel openly saying that we are going to starve the population of Gaza. There will be no water, no food and no electricity in Gaza.
Fight american and british by legal means, especially as american and british are being attacked from all sides. Now is the right time to fight evil by legal means. Prepare and join a legal resistance movement against our american, british and israeli enemy. Fight evil and Satan by legal means.
Well you have a couple of things point blank wrong wrong wrong.
1. Hannah Arendt was hated because she thought that Jew hatred was brought on by the Jews. The theory being if you stand alone. A well founded theory that the chosen bring it on themselves. She was also in love with Heidegger, a fellow philosopher who did not like Jews. Aren’t was anti Zionist philosophically because she thought it would perpetuate the problems, and she was correct. But her argument was intellectual not emotional. Later on she wrote about the need for Zionism. As a philosopher she did not believe in a define being.
2. Eichmann was a salesman not pro Zionist. He sold Jews for great amounts of money. I know someone whose parents paid Eichmann to get papers for them. My friend was raised as a Catholic in a Catholic house until he was eight. He is now 95. Eichmann approached Zionist leaders and wanted to sell 100,000 Jews for trucks. He did manage to make quite a bit for a sale of 100 Jews to Zionist. Which was condemned by many people after the war. So if the Holocaust was a hoax why was Eichmann selling Jews? Eichmann’s big sales were when the Warsaw Ghetto was being liquidated and everyone knew that death awaited them in the camps.
3. Do you believe that Norman Finkelstein’s family did not die at Auschwitz? What about Shayak who wrote about the Holocaust as a child living thru it?
Your work lacks nuance and an inability to connect with regular Jews who (are dead now) but have experienced. Eichmann selling Jews is well known. Just google it Ron.
It’ll start with sinking shipping containers
You are better than that. Turn your mind to the nimber of canyankerously or merely determinedly self respecting educated individuals there are working for. or with the BBC. (You can’t be ignorant of that, and surely don’t want to appear so). And how the hell does the possibility that some people in the BBC were (to your satisfaction) proven dishonest or craven in relation to news concerning Israel have the slightest bearing on the truth of the report about Russia and Ukraine, let alone making it unworthy of any consideration?
it is the same logic as
You’ve missed it completely. To confirm my previous recollection that Eichman had children I Googled for “did Eichman have children” and the answer to why he didn’t talk/wouldn’t have said anything Israel didn’t like is clear. He had four young sons who were loyal to him.
That’s rich coming from someone who writes insouciantly regardess of the fact that he allows ot to appear that he is not master of any details.
Israeli military says soldier opened fire on hostages holding white flag
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/16/israel-gaza-war-hamas-news-updates/
The bastards do it all the time against the Arab citizen and then influence the western morons to reject any wrongdoing .
Regarding that second quoted sentence, Unz was probably a little irritated at my somewhat sloppy posing of questions without a thorough examination of all the circumstances which were involved. His hypothesis about Eichmann’s kidnapping is not negligible, I now think, but I perceive it to be quite independent from the Holocaust’s facts (if my reasoning is faulty, please help me correct it).
Khazarians such a you, Fanny, have no right to live in Occupied Palestine. It’s that simple. Perhaps Brooklyn should be designated as the new “promised land”.
Ahhhhh. The Chutzpah. Meanie harping on the “laws of war”. So Meanie, are you doing your bit to achieve the status of Chutzpahtizer of the Year Gold Medal?
Oozer. Is this your attempt to win the Master-Baiter of the Week award? Details, Schmeetails.
“delegitimize Israel” Franny, really? Israel was never legitimate to begin with and is still the most illegitimate bastard of a “nation” in history. If it ever had even the slightest whisper of legitimacy then it certainly has not even a trace of it now; genocidal, pariah state that it is (and long has been) showing itself to be!
The two factors you mentioned are important yet minor. Most of the cause of America’s current bizarreness (and the rest of the West) is dysgenic breeding, i.e., each generation is worse – less intelligent, madder, etc. – than the last. The West’s Industrial Revolution lowered youth mortality from 50% to less than 1% in the West, and the youth who survive today who would not have survived in the past are of significantly worse quality than the average.
For more details, see an excellent interivew of Professor Edward Dutton, “The Rise of Spiteful Mutants”, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIechsT1grk.
Thank you, Tiptoes, for that well known speech of Adolf Hitler addressing the Hitler Jugend. National Socialism is the greatest missed opportunity for our world. But it will return probably via China. There will definitely be a reckoning.
I’m glad to hear your news on those American soldiers in Iraq. Anything that mitigates the dreadful record of Stormin Norman (jingoism for morons) needs to be seen and widely publicised.
Meanwhile Great Satan continues to double down.
It’s only money belonging to tax cattle after all.
🇺🇲🇵🇸 The State Department has announced a reward of up to $10 million for information leading to the destruction of Hamas’ financial networks. In addition, the US administration is offering a reward of up to $10 million for information that will help identify five financiers helping to sponsor Hamas.
According to the report, Americans are interested in information about front companies that work in the service of Hamas, organizations or individuals that help the terrorist organization evade sanctions, Hamas money transfers, online fundraising campaigns, addresses of digital currencies used by Hamas and criminal activities , which helps Hamas and its supporters make financial profits.
Roya Hakakian is a rabid zionist and a CIA/Mossad agent. She poses as ‘journalist’ and ‘writer ‘where should not be taken seriously for either, because majorfity of her writings are propaganda lies to topple this or that government to promote an erection of a second Israel in the middle east as Israel’s ALLY, that is kurdistan.
She was deeply involved in ‘mahsa amini’ PROJECT, a Mossad/CIA policy against Iran, to bring chaos where makes it possible to partition Iran, but it FAILED.
This criminal and terrorist figure, now, is very angry with what she sees on the ground, of course not for thousands of deaths in Gaza especially the Palestinian children, she believes Israel has a right to defend itself to kill 6 year old or 6 month old Hamas terrorists, but with lack of support from the ‘left’, the ‘feminist’ like Gloria Steinem or the world opinion. Now, she is activated the FAKE holocaust to bring support for the jewish people whose suffering is ‘unique’ and cannot be compare with zionist mass murderers’ genocide. Hakakian, who is an arrogant fool, has this to say about ‘holohoax’:
Roya Hakakian
@RoyaTheWriter
“The Holocaust remains an exceptional historical crime—distinct from other acts of organized lethal violence directed against other minorities—precisely because it was perpetrated by a highly sophisticated nation-state that had within its borders the world’s finest universities. That is why American universities cannot regard antisemitism as just another expression of “hate,” no different from, say, Islamophobia—a neologism that should not be mentioned in the same breath.”
Shame on you the racist and a liar.
Apologies. Link for $10M “reward” story.
Great Satan mentions reward or relocation.
Anyone foolish enough to deal with Satan in this matter might ask for relocation to Alpha Centauri since the chance of escaping detection is zero to nil.
https://t.me/intelslava/53875
Scroll down same tg to read the sad eventuality of Zelensky in Knesset2. Includes mention of “gay” pornography being filmed in US Senate w assistant to Sen Cardin.
What’s that abt “shithole” countries, Americans ?
Good news,too.
* likely failure of AFU “suicide attack” on Krynki (L Bank Dnepr R)
* Houthi drone attack on S Israel.
* NATO —
JFYI
Dear reader
Apologies for posting this unspeakable kike behaviour.
This is what your tax $$ are supporting, Americans.
If not for USA, this abomination called Israel would have folded long ago.
Can these “people” really be human ?
https://t.me/LebUpdate/35929
Thanks for the reference — I’m familiar with Dutton’s work, including his YouTube channel.
I’m not sure Jewish media influence has been ‘minor’ — Whites have been deracinated and psychologically neutered by decades (i.e. over multiple generations) of guilt-mongering propaganda — related is that in general society has been feminized — regarding ‘dysgenic breeding’, perhaps conscientious Whites may have been more affected by this propaganda, but I’m also aware of data suggesting no correlation between conscientiousness and intelligence (the picture is a bit mixed, see the link).
I would also expect that ‘dysgenic breeding’ among Whites is relatively minor compared to the effects of massive demographic change and the inevitable discord of a multiracial society — low birth rates among all Whites as a racial group may be more important — in fact, ala Robert Putnam increasing ‘diversity’ and the alienation it brings may itself depress white birth rates — in any event, I think all the problems of the West would be a lot easier to solve without racial diversity, which complicates literally everything.
Albeit I agree civilization is generally dysgenic because it insulates mankind from selection pressure in the environment — in fact all over the West taxpayers subsidize dysgenic breeding, primarily of their growing non-white populations, which doubtless do not make a net contribution to the first world technocratic economies found in white countries.
Well, you haven’t been around here much lately, but I always had the impression that you were a gullible, elderly crank.
I first published an 18,000 word article in 2018 explaining why the Holocaust narrative seemed like rubbish, and over the last five years have probably published another dozen articles saying much the same thing. If you’ve never noticed my views until now, you’re totally blind:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
Since you apparently deeply believe in the reality of the Holocaust, here’s a homework assignment for you…
Obviously, just as Holocaust scholars claim, the Holocaust would have been one of the most dramatic events in the history of the world, and certainly the central element of World War II.
Yet as far as I can see, there was virtually no mainstream mention of it anywhere for about 15 years after WWII, say from around 1946 to 1960:
Indeed, in 1951 a conservative former high-ranking Military Intelligence officer published a book that casually ridiculed the Holocaust as long-debunked wartime propaganda, and his huge bestseller was endorsed by many of our top generals. Jewish groups like the ADL ferociously attacked him on every other point, but they never challenged his explicit “Holocaust denial.” I found a couple of academic reviews of that book, which also were fiercely critical on many of his other claims, but they also never challenged his “Holocaust denial.”
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#explicit-and-implicit-holocaust-denial-after-world-war-ii
This and a number of other facts seem to strongly indicate that throughout the 1950s almost no one in the American mainstream actually believed in the Holocaust.
Perhaps you can find a few major counter-examples for me.
But if almost no one believed in the Holocaust right after it had supposedly happened, why should anyone believe in it three generations later?
It’s absolutely possible that many of Norman Finkelstein’s relatives died during World War II. Something like sixty million people died during WWII, only a small fraction of them in the alleged “Holocaust.” The same sort of thing is also true for Israel Shahak and his family.
Since you’re so well-versed on the Holocaust issue, here’s a question for you, which I just asked someone else.
As far as I can tell, there was virtually no mainstream American coverage of the Holocaust for about the first fifteen years after the end of the war, say between 1946 and 1960. A huge national bestseller in America ridiculed the Holocaust as debunked wartime propaganda, and neither the ADL nor any other Jewish group ever challenged that claim.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#explicit-and-implicit-holocaust-denial-after-world-war-ii
So why don’t you hunt around and find me a few examples of mainstream American sources during the 1950s that seemed to believe in the Holocaust. But if almost no one in America seemed to believe in the Holocaust just after it had supposedly happened, I think it probably has about as much reality as the recent story of the forty beheaded babies.
Noted with interest
Noted and – apparently – comtradicted ,(infra)
Are you happy to be shown to be someone so broadly antisemitic that he condemns someonr for assisting Jews with genuine fears for their lives and property to escape Europe? Doesn’t it say alot about you?
Maybe an altrrnative take is that it took quite a long time for two main ideas to come together in a way that appealed to influencers and the influenced.
One was that several million Jews had been killed or allowed to die (including worked to death) and the other was that a modern civilised more or less Christian nation, thr best educated too, could have become so deadly, by prejudice or intimidation, against a very small and largely assimilated minority and then extended its reach throughout Europe by reference to a fabatic populist conception of race or….. (“what the hell were those Nazis up to rounding up Jews including women, children and elderly to remove them from West and Southern European countries”)
So it takes a while to crystallise (supported it is true by propaganda value and pecuniary advantage) into the Shoah/Holocaust. It is easy to become cynical and diverted by the sacred 6 million nonsense and the lobbies and grifters who have latched on to it.
You seem totally confused, as usual.
The Holocaust was officially and publicly proclaimed as reality by the Allies just after the war and was a central element of the Nuremberg Trials, at which they hanged a bunch of the Nazi leaders. Truman even mentioned the Six Million figure in one of his speeches, much like Biden recently said that he’d seen the photographic proof of the forty beheaded Israeli babies.
So the Holocaust was officially true and universally accepted in 1946, including the Six Million figure.
However, it then seems to have almost totally disappeared for about the next fifteen years.
In his huge 1951 bestseller, Prof. John Beaty, an important wartime figure in Military Intelligence, casually declared that the Holocaust had just been ridiculous wartime propaganda that almost nobody still believed, and his book was enthusiastically endorsed by a long list of our top generals, who urged all patriotic Americans to read it.
Jewish groups and academic reviewers ferociously attacked Beaty and his book on all sorts of other issues, but they never challenged his Holocaust denial.
I think that suggests that almost nobody still believed in the Holocaust during the 1950s.
What’s your explanation?
A few years after the end of WWI, everybody admitted that the stories about the Germans raping Belgian nuns and eating Belgian children had just been wartime propaganda, and I think that’s exactly what happened with the Holocaust after WWII.
Noted as it happens while I am looking for a place to add for Ron Unz’s consideration a NYT article about Trump and a further not entirely challenge to say, as with Orban, where’s the CIA oup when you need one – in this case rippling the Trump brain or killing him.
It’s hardly surprising that non Jews lost interest and were seen to have lost interest in something which could be and was characterised as a wartime propaganda beatup especially when so many US military people -and others of the once ruling class – were antisemitic. That is why I see it as unsurprising that those who wanted to get up a memorable horror story for both good or acceptable and arguably bad (Zionist) reasons had to proceed carefully and shrewdly to put together undoubtedly anti Jewish action, many deaths, and the extra phenomenon of an educated people with a tiny minority of mostly assimilated Jews turning viciously against them.
You also consider yourself not today confused and certainly an intellectual cut above David Cole (Stein) as you probably are. So I challenge you to challenge him to a publicly available debate which the whole world can see and hear. You would make the case that the Holocaust of 1939-45 crimes against Jews was a hoax got up as wartime propaganda and resurrected long after the war to protect Israel and obtain money from Germans.
Why not? Your failure to issue the challenge would say it all. Of course it wouldn’t have to be David Cole on the other side. Deborah Lipstadt comes to mind.
Your earlier reference to 60 million dying because of WW2 is also very likely a reason for not particularly numerate people who hadn’t even heard the word genocide to be initially inclined to say ” so it’s very sad, you and every Jews I meet in New York seems to have had a dozen distant cousins turned into lampshades: yeah, well, get over it like all the other millions whose fathers brothers and children were kied”.
Following my previous comment in reference to Orban “where’s there a CIA coup when you need one?” I ask you quite seriously to assess the chances of Trump being murdered or just poisoned or infected so as to be disabled. (Novichok on his pitching wedge seems appropriate). Perhaps a Ukrainian dying of cancer might blow himself up while being greeted in his wheelchair. In short, someone who can believe CIA people to be possibly involved in so many famous killings must surely consider it as an answer to the Trump danger to America, its allies, and it’s place in the world.
You really are a Humpty Dumpt** who likes his nice “knock down arguments”but you shouldn’t have exposed yourself by ignoring what was easily to be found starting with Goovling for when Holocaust was first used in its current usual meaning. Just the Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Holocaust?wprov=sfla1
tells you that the kopine Greek “holocaust” has been used for a thousand years or more for any number of disasters and was quite controversial as applied to Jews’ Nakba – in Hebrew Hashish- until Yad Vashem blessed it with capitalisation several decades after the war.You would find that the figure of 17 million was said to be the number of Holocaust victims by some though the sacred 6 million may have just been reached by including the gypsies by various names. To the extent that you are right about the murder of millions of Jews being a major part of the charges in the War Ctimes Trials (bearing in mind that the crime of genocide had only just been defined) I suspect that you would find that it had a lot to do withthe convenience of prosecutors wanting to put together a manageable
case – aded no doubt by young Jewish lawyers and military interrogators). I am more convinced after that small amount of research that it took a long time to
put together a telling but simple enough version to have The Holocaust up in lights with the right emotions and factual evidence to capture the heights of intense. People have and had a lot of things to take notice of. Zionist Jews have been clever at getting focus on the Holocaust. Moi, I would long ago have switched attention to the European fertility rate falling we below reproduction and sub Saharn
Africa’s rate of 7+ doubling populations in 20 years…..
**.
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Articles
A Nice Knock-Down Argument
by Peter Williams (after Lewis Carroll’s ‘Through the Looking Glass’)
The notion of ‘language-games’, often cited and discussed in my lectures at University, has become something of a pet hate with me. The concept comes originally from Wittgenstein, who asked us to “think of words as instruments characterised by their use.” The general idea is that the meaning of language is dependent upon the user, and words only have meaning within a particular context of use called a ‘language-game’. Some have argued that religious language, for example, should be recognised as a distinctive language-game. This implies that philosophical questions about religious matters, or matters in any ‘language-game’, should be restricted to questions about the role played by words in that particular game; philosophy is prevented from saying anything about the validity of the game itself.
I have no problem with the concept of ‘language-games’ as ‘universes of discourse’ where words are used in a particular context, but I do hold serious objections to the thesis that such universes of discourse are distinct from each other and to the relativistic idea that meaning can be wholly private and purely subjective. Words do not mean certain things because of the way in which they are used; words are used because they mean certain things. Any new or ‘invented’ term must be defined by pre-existing and meaningful terms.
In the hope of explaining myself in an engaging style, and engendering some debate upon the hot potatoes of languagegames and of relativism, I offer the following fable…
“There’s glory for you.”
“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory’,” Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t – till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’”
“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
Alice considered a little. “But surely,” she said in a sudden flash of inspiration, “you simply have to agree with me that ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’, it means ‘glory’.”
“Not in the slightest bit,” humphed Humpty Dumpty, “I disagree with you totally.”
“Ah,” replied Alice cunningly, “so you do agree with me, for when I hear someone say ‘I disagree with you’, I think they mean ‘I agree with you totally’, don’t you? When I hear a word, it means just what I choose it to mean – nothing more nor less.”
“It is a most provoking thing,” Humpty Dumpty cried, breaking into a sudden passion, “when little girls make it impossible to disagree with them.”
“So,” said Alice, “now you do agree with me that ‘glory’ means ‘glory’.”
“Wrong!” Humpty Dumpty exclaimed triumphantly, “it would be alright for me to say that ‘I disagree with you’ meant ‘I agree with you’, because I believe in that sort of thing; but you don’t, or you wouldn’t be being so awkward about it! You can’t go using other people’s arguments against themselves, that’s plagiarism!”
(“He talks about it just as if it was a game!” thought Alice.) Trying hard to conceal her vexation with the phantasmagorical egg, Alice delivered her coup de grâce : “I’m afraid that you can’t get out of it like that Mr. Dumpty, it just won’t do at all. You think that words mean whatever you choose them to mean, but in order to say that I disagree with you, you have to agree with, or understand, my use of words; and if you agree with me, then you can’t disagree!”
“It’s very provoking,” Humpty Dumpty said after a long silence, looking away from Alice as he spoke. “I’d rather see that done on paper.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so little.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “who is to be master – that’s all.”
Alice waited to see if he would speak again, but as he never opened his eyes or took any further notice of her, she said “Good-bye.” and quietly walked away: but she couldn’t help saying to herself as she went, “Of all the unsatisfactory people I ever met –” She never finished the sentence, for at that moment a heavy crash shook the forest from end to end.
Sorry I bungled the putting of my footnote into the text and then separating with a Next division.
You will find the amusing little reminder of the Lewis Carroll character if you skittle first few paragraphs after my double asterix.
I hope I haven’t obscured my point that the ignoring of what Germans did about the JQ for 15 years or so didn’t prove the non existence of attempts to wipe out whole Jewish co.munities.
Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem announces further news on heroic IDF.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/17/716528/Israeli-sniper-kills-Gaza-Christian-church-
Btw with Houthi closing Eilat port and shippers refusing to enter Red Sea, there has arisen a food supply problem for Israel. But no worries, seems United Arab Emirates Jordan and Kingdom Saudi Arabia have stepped in to ensure supply.
“Brotherly Arab Nations”.
How thoughtful is that. IDF can have lettuce/tomato w their burgers.
And the US-supplied ammo being put to good use.
Looks like win-win all round.
https://countylocalnews.com/2023/12/16/saudi-arabia-uae-jordan-aid-israel-in-bypassing-houthi-blockade-first-fresh-food-shipment-arrives-from-dubai/
It’s quite a delicious thought. Eichmann was the actual Moses of contemporary Israel. Without his curious role Israel might not have had the capital or human material to survive the 1930s.
He could not be allowed to cross the Jordan unless he’s in a soundproof Plexiglas box. The Ark.
Aside from the wretched Arab merchant-States, which deserve, and probably will receive, a word all on their own, here is an assessment of the unfortunate US official John Kirby who presents to the world the “humane” US policies.
In my humble opinion “wretched” does not even begin to describe this posturing poltroon. Andrew Mitrovica does a good job ref Kirby/similar ghouls.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/14/biden-kirby-and-dead-ungrateful-palestinians
You write: “Why not? Your failure to issue the challenge would say it all. Of course it wouldn’t have to be David Cole on the other side. Deborah Lipstadt comes to mind.”
My response: Deborah Lipstadt has always refused to debate anyone on the Holocaust. She does not want to give “Holocaust deniers” an audience.
Not to worry Franny, I can help you with this research if you need assistance.
Here’s a few articles on the six million, mostly, but you just say/write the word, and I’ll get on those gas chamber/Holocaust articles. I will fit it in with my I’m-nailing-Untermeyer-as-a-Zionist-before/during-1917 assignment.
The American Jewish World
July 5, 1918
Mr. Ben Avi was delegate to the convention from Palestine and discussed the form of government which will probably be established in Palestine. He said the constitution will be drawn along the lines of the United States although the president will not have as much power. He claims Palestine has room for six million Jews.
Rock Island Argus
January 5, 1916
A plea for the suffering Jews of Europe was made by Rabbi Harrison of St. Louis….
[…] “the greatest war of history is raging now,” he said. “ in the awful area, swept by canon fire, on side of the battlefront, between Teuton and Slav, are nearly six million Jews.”
The Sun
June 6, 1915
By Herman Bernstein, editor of “The Day”
Since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem the Jewish people have had no darker page in their history than that which the Russian Government is writing today. 6 million Jews, one-half of the Jewish people throughout the world, are being persecuted, hounded, humiliated, tortured, starved.
The Bridgeport Evening Farmer
March 13, 1916
[…] These small amounts of money for relief are supplemented by money raised in energetic campaigns carried on throughout this country to send to the six million Jews reported starving in the warring countries…
The Washington Herald
September 15, 1917
[…] New Year of 5678 has a world significance for the Jewish people. The horrors of a world wide-war have emancipated six million Jews in Russia….
The American Jewish World
July 27, 1917
[…] To Mr. Jacob H. Schiff, the American banker, belongs the glory of the impersonal pioneer of liberty, for his financing of Japan in her war against Russia was deliberately belligerent. That he should now declare himself a “very substantial” contributor to the Russian Liberty Loan and should moreover present a complete hospital unit to Russia is significant of the new Jewish orientation, and disposes finally of the foolish attempt of the London Times to represent him as a pro-German puppet.
[…] and to congratulate Russia on having rid herself not only of the Romanoffs, but of her suicidal policy of degrading six millions of her ablest subjects.
Jews Will Save Russia
The leaders of the new Russia have indeed long since come to understand, with the old Franciscan Father, that “ whatever a man does onto others, he does unto himself,” and they have long blushed under the humiliation of their Jews as something that tainted themselves in the eyes of civilization….Their [the Jews] industrial and commercial genius, given for the first time free play in Russia, will save her from future German penetration and supply the missing factor necessary to bring her into line with the Western Powers to whom she is allied and whom – by an irony of history – she is now destined to liberalize.
The Theocrat
August 10, 1918
[…] nobody can tell what intensification in German anti-Semitism will result from the virtual turnover to Germany of some five or six millions of Jews….
These are questions for deep pondering upon the part of the Jews. And the effect of a Germany victorious in the East upon the prospects of Jewish Nationalism in Palestine must also by no means be overlooked. That Palestine should be free from the influence of Turkey and from that of Germany is the keynote of British as it is the brightest hope of Zionist policy. It is quite evident that Germany’s policy is exactly contrary.
The end.
How about those plans they had in Russia? That article almost indicates the Jews are admitting responsibility for the Russian Revolution. It almost seems like they’re admitting they intend to liberalize the west, as if it was their destiny.
Thank you for this link and the donmeh ones.
Can you imagine any western leader today speaking to the youth of their nation in that manner? So, what is the effect on young people who have never once heard their “leaders” speak of pride/honor/duty to their own people/nation?
Ha! What an abomination. I guess Wild Billy Clinton set the standard, yes? Magnus Hirschfeld would be proud!
Many (maybe most) Americans are unaware of the money/goods/equipment given to Israel annually. Jim Traficant tried desperately to inform the American public, yet I never heard of him until after his “accident.”
Maybe Robinette Biden is a blessing in disguise; we all know he’s hardly conscious; we all know the border is not closed; we all know these millions upon millions of dollars seem to be plucked off a money tree somewhere; many of us are aware that he is surrounded by Jews. Maybe it’s the beginning of the end for the MolochPeople in America, but how does that happen without Hitler II?
This is what I do not understand, Mr. MacBride. Why don’t other Arab/Muslim nations help the Palestinians? I hear/read that the elite of many of these Arab nations are actually Jews; do you think this is true?
Now look up who really counted – when it came to Jews – the Chka. As in the Guinness Book – the record for the most executions for a single individual in a month – documented even – your Boyz. Quit being a Sucker and get out of the Matrix.
A troll, am I, Mr. Oz?
So, Patton, who often fought alongside the soldiers under his command, yet survived a war, argues repeatedly and vociferously with Eisenhower over the perfidy of the Jews, the viciousness of the ambitions of the Soviets/the inevitable spread of communism, and the illegal treatment of German POW‘s, and thereafter suffers a few minor traffic accident/incidents before succumbing eventually in a low speed accident wherein he is the only injured party. The two drivers are deemed careless, which is a dereliction of duty, by the way, yet they are not sanctioned, nor reprimanded, in any way. Why yes, Mr. Oz, nothing to see here, folks!
David Cole? Hasn’t he already been beaten into submission for pointing out that the crema/gas chamber facility at Auschwitz-Birkenau was remodeled after 1945?
There is footage of HD David Irving trying to challenge Debbie in a public forum. She declined for some strange reason considering she’s an expert, and Irving is/was a court sanctioned fibber of the highest order. He should have been easily toppled, yes? I suppose it was beneath her dignity to engage thusly, just as many Sonderkommandos nearly all reported after over twenty years of silence – I swore I would never speak on it! Can I have a tissue? What can I tell you about my bar mitzvah? I don’t remember anything about it, I’m sure I had one though – for the love of God, where are those tissues!? Got any apples?
Yes, it would say your challenge is ridiculous, as are most of your arguments.
But Mr. Oz, since you’ve got a bee in your bonnet over all of this, I will take the challenge provided it can be done in Germany. You make the arrangements, ok?
{every Jews I meet in New York seems to have had a dozen distant cousins turned into lampshades: yeah, well,}
lampshades… these lies are still repeated where people know they are lies, the same with holohoax, that NEVER HAPPENED. The reason zionists still give us these stories is to make people silent about their crimes against humanity that have committed against many groups, so to bring the gullible people into submission. Look at what an arrogant and racist rabid zionist, Roya Hakakian, is telling about their FAKE holocaust:
Roya Hakakian
@RoyaTheWriter
8:31 PM · Dec 13, 2023
{{“The Holocaust remains an exceptional historical crime—distinct from other acts of organized lethal violence directed against other minorities—precisely because it was perpetrated by a highly sophisticated nation-state that had within its borders the world’s finest universities. That is why American universities cannot regard antisemitism as just another expression of “hate,” no different from, say, Islamophobia—a neologism that should not be mentioned in the same breath.”}}
Your fake ‘holohoax’ has been placed ABOVE everything else that no one can touch it. This is fake, so your f*cking ‘antisemitic’. No one has forgotten the real holocaust in Rwanda in the 20th century.
How american, british and Israel always re-write history and change rules as they see fit. Too easy:
https://youtube.com/shorts/7iLkV9xqozo
> I will assume you’ve seen the photos of the vehicle’s front-end smashed to bits?
Irrelevant, since Patton was seated in the back:
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/us/h-l-woodring-dies-at-77-was-driver-in-patton-crash.html
—–
”Woody, go and bring that dog inside the car,” Patton said. ”He looks cold.”
Private Woodring fetched the dog. Patton got out of his seat and climbed into the rear with General Gay. The dog sat up front.
”That simple act of kindness toward an animal ended the life of a national hero,” Mr. Woodring wrote. Moments later Patton slammed against the partition separating the front and back seats and became the only passenger injured. The impact broke the general’s neck.
—–
Patton might have actually survived if he had remained in the front, instead giving his seat over to the dog and moving to the back. That’s exactly the kind of detail which is difficult to account for based upon any conspiracy-scenario.
In the relevant period of 1939-40, the Socialist Workers Party was indeed the only party which could be classified as “Trotskyist” in any honest way. After World War II, there started to emerge a new wave of political fissures within the traditional Left-wing. Not surprising, since the postwar economic boom meant that a lot of the visions formed in the 1930s were out of date. As old political parties began to fracture apart, there is some legitimate for arguing about which one was more authentically “Trotskyist” (or, for that matter, Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist/whatever).
Even in this later period, one should only apply the term “Trotskyist” to people who seek to form some well-disciplined party guided by the actual teachings of Trotsky. Just as one should not describe as “National Socialist” anyone who expresses some hazy kind of admiration of Adolf Hitler, the mere fact that someone indicates some respect for Leon Trotsky as a historical figure doesn’t really mean much when determining whether such a person is “Trotskyist.” The most important feature of Trotsky’s arguments for the last 2 decades of his life was claim that, after initially being critical of Lenin’s model of a revolutionary party, he had been persuaded that Lenin in 1903 was right. That meant that he scoffed at people like Boris Souvarine who expressed some general sympathy for his status as a political exile, but refused to join any new party.
Patton a hero? Typical american/british. A simple murderer and a war criminal. It makes rest of the world sick to see complete arrogance and narcism of american and british, who are vicious criminals full of themselves with intelligence much less than people they are murdering and terrorizing.
Just another sick criminal less.
I wonder why Driver had not a single injury? No boo-boos anywhere? I wonder why a 19 year old, wet-behind-the-ears farm boy from Kentucky was the designated driver for America’s greatest warrior?
Whilst you’re exculpating/shilling for SLBFDR/Eisenhower/Bolsheviks, see if you can dig up the transcription of the interviews with the two drivers. Surely those records must be available to the public by now?
Patton might have actually survived if he had kept his mouth shut over the habits/machinations of the Jews, the Soviets, the abandonment of Berlin to the communists, and the perfidy/criminality of Eisenhower.
Those details mean nothing without documentation/proof of the specific injuries sustained by Patton, and an effective/unbiased cross examination of the witnesses.
Conspiracy = an agreement between two or more people to commit an illegal act, along with an intent to achieve the agreement’s goal.
> Kindly explain to me why 6 million murdered was not adjusted after the Dachau gas chamber allegations and the 4 million murdered at A-B allegation were/was refuted/withdrawn?
This much, at least, does have a perfectly clear answer. It is because neither of those stories were ever maintained by any recognized historian and therefore were never open to retraction as far as historical works go. The Auschwitz in the Poland that was part of the Warsaw Pact did maintain a plaque which gave a number “four million” but said nothing about Jews. It was taken down after Gorbachev allowed Poland to exit from the Warsaw Pact. It had nothing to do with anything by historians.
As far as the alleged Dachau gas chamber, there was a Joint Committee representing the Senate and House of Representatives which visited Dachau and made some claims about a Dachau gas chamber. But this was never accepted by historian. If you want a benchmark for what did historians claim, you should get ahold of a 1953 edition of Gerald Reitlinger’s book The Final Solution. While it’s necessary to accept all of his claims, this will at least you know what the orthodox academic story was since 1953. Nothing about Dachau gas chambers, nothing about 4 million at Auschwitz.
> A few years after the end of WWI, everybody admitted that the stories about the Germans raping Belgian nuns and eating Belgian children had just been wartime propaganda
While some exaggerated versions were given publicity during the war, it is generally accepted by historians that around 6500 Belgian civilians were executed by German occupation forces under circumstances which had little to do with counterinsurgency. For details:
John Horne & Alan Kramer, German Atrocities, 1914: A History of Denial
The events in Belgium in 1914 and subsequent arguments over these actually show why it is meaningless to base an argument around a crank like John Beaty. During the 1930s, the effects of the Great Depression created enormous disillusionment with World War One and this not only made many media-sources such as The Nation willing to promote antiwar revisionism, but it even got overplayed to the degree that many people today don’t realize exactly which acts of brutality by German forces in Belgium were genuine and authenticated. Many people in 1945 were actually afraid that the Depression would return after the war. This also raised the possibility that antiwar revisionism would grow again in response to a renewed Depression. Hence, it was wise for Jewish groups to say little on the matter until it could clearly be seen that the postwar economy had recovered.
Actually, the famed Leon Jaworski’s 1961 book After Fifteen Years explicitly described the gas chambers at Dachau, and the Introduction by Vice President Lyndon Johnson endorsed and praised everything he’d written. So the man who was about to become our President certainly believed in the Dachau gas chambers.
But since you’re so well-read on the subject of the Holocaust, perhaps you can help me out with something. I’ve been unsuccessfully trying to locate any significant mention of the major elements of the Holocaust story anywhere in the mainstream writings of the 1950s. As far as I can tell, almost nobody in the American mainstream was aware of the Jewish Holocaust during that decade or at least believed that it had actually happened.
Did virtually all of American society and every American journalist, academic, and writer suffer a sudden bout of amnesia about such colossal world events that had transpired just a few years earlier? If not, I’m sure you can locate a few major articles or references for me.
There were certainly an avalanche of articles and films about World War II, Nazis, Jews, anti-Semitism, Zionism, and Israel. But seemingly nothing on the Holocaust, which strikes me as quite odd…
> Now look up who really counted – when it came to Jews – the Chka.
OK, let’s look:
—–
The proportion of Jews in the Cheka as a whole was not very high (compared to what White propaganda often alleged): 3.7 percent of the Moscow apparatus, 4.3 percent of Cheka commissars, and 8.6 percent of senior (“responsible”) officials in 1918, and 9.1 percent of all members of provincial Cheka offices (Gubcheka) in 1920. As in the Party, the majority of Cheka members were Russians, and by far the most over-represented group were the Latvians, consistently and successfully cultivated by Lenin as the Praetorian Guards of the Revolution (35.6 percent of the Moscow Cheka apparatus, 52.7 percent of all Cheka senior officials, and 54.3 percent of all Cheka commissars, as compared to about 0.09 percent in the country as a whole and about 0.5 percent in Moscow). But even in the Cheka, Bolsheviks of Jewish origin combined ideological commitment with literacy in ways that set them apart and propelled them upward. In 1918, 65.5 percent of all Jewish Cheka employees were “responsible officials.” Jews made up 19.1 percent of all central apparatus investigators and 50 percent (6 out of 12) of the investigators employed in the department for combating counter-revolution. In 1923, at the time of the creation of the OGPU (the Cheka’s successor), Jews made up 15.5 percent of all “leading” officials and 50 percent of the top brass (4 out of 8 members of the Collegium’s Secretariat).
—–
— Yuri Slezkine, The Jewish Century, p. 177.
Again, I’ll repeat, all of Robert Wilton’s claims are fake. Now it’s true, as Slezkine notes above, that there was an adequate share of Jews in the Cheka to deserve some notice. But the Cheka was never dominated by any ethnic group, not even by the Latvians.
> I wonder why Driver had not a single injury?
The relevant facts are explained in the link. You yourself have been saying that it wasn’t such a serious car-crash. Why would you be surprised that the driver was OK? What happened with Patton:
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/us/h-l-woodring-dies-at-77-was-driver-in-patton-crash.html
—–
Patton slammed against the partition separating the front and back seats and became the only passenger injured. The impact broke the general’s neck.
—–
He should have stayed in front and put the dog in back. The dog would have died, and Patton would have been OK.
Do historians typically determine/certify an official death count after an event, such as a world war, or a war between the states? Who, besides a nation’s government/military, has custody of military records? Or, census records?
Historians often snoop around looking for confirmation of claims, and they are sometimes granted access to archival records. And Pretzel, if they’re snooping around the so-called Holocaust archives, they are often sent to Moloch’s Dungeon, the Irving wing. I checked for records of the Marching Sherman dungeon, but no one was ever banished accordingly.
It is not the realm/purview of journalists or historians to do the official retracting.
On whose authority was the plaque for 4 million made in the first place? How did they arrive to that figure? Who confiscated the Auschwitz records upon liberation? Whilst the Russians were dressing the children in pajamas, (the very children whom Irene Weiss claimed to the world, repeatedly, did not exist at Auschwitz because they were all gassed to death within the first hour of arrival) and having them pose for photos, I wonder why they didn’t bother to go take photos of the homicidal gas chambers?
How about this benchmark – there were gas chambers. They were used for delousing. Delousing was done during World War I as well, and allegations of homicidal gassing of civilians/jews/combatants, etc., popped up here and there in reports, but they didn’t really stick. They popped up again during/after World War II, and after 20 odd years, someone finally found a way to make it stick. And, once again, 6 million! is popping up all over the place, and the official Jewish library/history/albums/web-sites do not budge from the 6 million! regardless of what historians/scholars/scientists/honest witnesses/reason/common sense/a calculator say/report.
People who came through Ellis Island were often made to disrobe, shower, get a haircut, get dusted/doused with an insecticide, yet no one was trying to exterminate those people.
Testimony of Shoah witness Paula Lebovics – arrives to Auschwitz-Birkenau in August, 1944, at the age of 10; she is marched into a shower, and although she thought she would be gassed, she took a shower, and then she was deloused with a powder; she worked in the kitchen peeling potatoes, although Fran Taubman insists every not-fit-to-work person, which included young children, was immediately murdered upon arrival.
Please inform Eileen Weiss, who was there at the same time as Paula, of her errors, and stick to cherry trees, Pretzel. I’ve already informed Franny.
The Holocaust is a leisurely inner-tube ride over Niagara Falls. You know it’s true, Pretzel.
https://youtube.com/shorts/qAjVV9RqcO8
Its pointless to negotiate or have a real conversation with a british or an american, same thing. They are so completely stupid or so completely dishonest and deceptive that they cant stop lying and acting clueless.
What do you mean? I dont understand. What do you mean by that? I Wonder who did that.
OK Reitlinger wasn’t English but he had “large sales” for two 1950s books in English.
Wikipedia tells me
Where do you fit Reitlinger into your version. Maybe you now know his sales in he US and have read up the reviews, but it looks to me as if there was a big gap in your US centric rrading when you launched your John Beatty based version.
> So the man who was about to become our President certainly believed in the Dachau gas chambers.
Obviously, no one regards LBJ as a historian of any sort at all. Certainly, no academic historian would recognize him as such. He doesn’t even fit the definition of a popular historian, of the sort which Arthur Butz cites in his discussion of historians. As far as English language publications go, the first book that would be given some credentials as a historical study on the subject was Gerald Reitlinger’s The Final Solution, published in 1953. If one is going to speak of an “orthodox Holocaust history” in terms of books that are recognized among academia, that is the starting point. Raul Hilberg’s publication in 1961 is follow-up.
There certainly is nothing especially odd about the fact that there was no rush in academia to publish about the subject right after the war. How many academic publications were produced about the Turkish/Armenian events during the years 1918-33? I can’t say offhand, but most publications on that subject which I’ve seen appear after 1945. This is not strange. The idea that historians are supposed to swiftly produce studies of every new act of violence is a contemporary notion, something which developed after 1945.
https://youtube.com/shorts/8kCTMyh1oqw
Movie about Nakba outraged many jews and Israel. Israeli themself describe how they rounded up palestinian and massacred them or how they raped palestinian women over and over and over again. American and british havent been any better in Germany, Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Syria etc.
Hopefully truthful documentaries and movies would come out about war crimes of american and british as well and not just israeli. I dont think we will ever see the truth coming out in a similar fashion. They still havent made actual movies about how american and british intentionally terror bombed purely civilian targets in Germany, Vietnam, Japani etc. How they ran torture programs and wiped out civilian children, women and elderly in Vietnam in seek and destroy missions and in The Phoenix Program. How they did intentional terrorist attacks in Operation Gladio and blamed communists/left for it (Operation Gladio still continues to this day). How about Operation Paperclip, where american and british smuggled nazis, japanese and soviet scientists, doctors etc. to continue their work FOR THEM. How about Operation Underworld and MK Ultra? With Lend for Lease program they gave massive support to the Soviet Union against Finland and Germany. The list goes on and on. And you blame jews for everything you do american and british?
By jewish media influence being minor, I meant the deracination and psychological neutering you mentioned is mostly caused by the genetic decline I mentioned. Almost no-one appreciates that youth mortality going from half of all babies/children dying before they reach reproduction age to about 100% of babies surviving to adulthood is a hugely negative sea change – much bigger than any other factor, and, I think, bigger than all other factors combined when talking about Western decline.
Another almost completely unknown and huge genetic change over the last two centuries or so in the West is the level of genetic closeness in Western populations. Even Prof Ed Dutton rarely talks about this, but he has said that the ideal average genetic difference for genetic fitness in a population is 3rd or 4th cousin. Eastern Europeans are 5th cousin on average – still fairly close to the ideal – but Western Europeans are 11th cousin – a long way from the ideal.
Inbred populations that are closer than 3rd cousin on average tend to be fiercely loyal to their family, friends and people, e.g. Afghanistan. Outbred populations beyond about 4th cousin tend to be the opposite – disloyal to their family, friends and people. Westerners are the most outbred people in the world and so naturally a lot of us tend to prefer outsiders to our own people – a lot of us are traitors/wokes, unfortunately.
So, of course jewish control of Western media means our media is strongly antiWhite and intentionally exacerbates the existing problems, but that influence is minor compared to the huge problem of perhaps two centuries of dysgenic breeding (poor-quality people having the most descendants (they’ve always had the most babies), and most Whites being outbred and feeling alienated from and having significant antipathy for their family, friends and people, etc.).
I agree that society has become more feminised, but again, that’s probably mostly a genetic issue, not a jewish media issue. The genes for obesity have been consistently becoming more common in Western populations for many decades at least, which causes people to overeat more. Fat people are more feminine because fat releases oestrogen; it makes people slower, less energetic and less aggressive, etc. The historically-unprecedented fatness of modern Western societies is also often ignored, and almost never ascribed to genetic causes, but this paper convincingly shows that there have been rapid, negative genetic changes in White populations such as increasing genes for fatness since at least around 1960 (and of course almost certainly before): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35790706/.
The data I’ve seen indicates there is a positive correlation between IQ and industriousness (and between IQ and more or less all positive traits) but I’m not sure what point you were making there.
I also agree that nonWhites are an economic drain on Whites. Patriotic Alternative, a White nationalist group in the UK which has been illegally barred from forming a political party three times in the last few years, estimates that each nonWhite costs Britain on average more than £1.1 million over an 81-year lifetime: https://assets.nationbuilder.com/patrioticalternative/pages/1432/attachments/original/1652267065/Point_Three_Demographics_of_the_UK.pdf. (It was very disappointing to read Ron Unz’s articles promoting costly nonWhite immigration to America. NonWhites cost America socially as well as economically.)
I expect that jews are by far the most expensive immigrant group in every way, and they may even end up costing the West, and the world, everything if the apocalyptic, zionist “neocons/globalists” fully get their way with ops like provoking Russia in Ukraine and China in Taiwan (no real sign of that so far, thankfully). While all large-scale, nonWhite immigration costs the West by destroying societal cohesiveness and trust (see these 100 studies proving it: https://archive.org/details/100studiesonthenegativeimpactracialdiversity/mode/2up), there’s one nonWhite group which MAY have an economic benefit – Orientals / Far Easterners. I’ve seen a Danish government analysis which indicated they were on the positive side of the ledger.
Anyway, bit of a long and somewhat rambling reply. 🙂 To conclude, genetics is usually the most important factor in social analyses and social change and yet it is the most-ignored.
REALLY unfair to claim that all British and American people are like that blinkered, lying arsehole, Piers Morgan. It’s only a large majority of us. 😉
Just like the Zionazis who, when asked for evidence of mass rape, necrophilia, child beheading etc, allegedly committed by Hamas, start screeching that they MUST be believed, and it would be an affront to the victims to even question the allegations. Chutzpah at its finest.
It’s the nature of my facts, not my ‘mastery’ of them, that you cannot abide. Your Austfailian, Lieberal Party, upper class brainwashing (I’ve observed it up close so I know it when I see it) has left you brainwashed, inculcated, and, effectively, brain-dead. Forgive my forthright observation.
God’s bodkin! The Ooze has reached the Ultima Thule of derangement. The BBC full of ‘…cantankerously or merely determinedly self-respecting educated individuals…’???!!! Who?? Where??!!
And how is that these paragons, like the similar scum at our ABC, ALL say the same thing regarding Russia, China, Iran or any other enemy of the Glorious Anglosphere Empire? Quote me ONE article from either propaganda organ that treats those three countries in a positive light in regard to ANYTHING. You need to read ‘Manufacturing Consent’, Ooze. The Western MSM is and always has been, a propaganda machine for the REAL rulers of ALL Western States-the rich owners of the economy.
Israel did pay compensation for the USS Liberty attack, first to the families of the dead, then to the wounded, then to the US taxpayers for damage to the ship.
Your other accusations are insane bunk.
Tell it to someone who doesn’t know about the transfer agreement, Kastner, etc., asshole. Jews made their bed, it’s not gentile animals’ responsibility to save them from lying in it. As if the Zionists couldn’t have saved them if that had suited their agenda. But as everyone here knows, the Zionists wanted to drive Jews to Palestine (but only the select, who could make a real contribution), so they closed other escape routes to them. So GFY with your stupid BS.
And why should I be glad about a traitorous congressman whose first loyalty was to Jews, not the country to which he swore an oath? And what did Jews who came to the USA in the 1930s do? They completely fucked over the country. The Frankfurt School, the long walk through the institutions, cultural Marxism / Woke. Has ANY country that ever welcomed Jews not been fucked over by them? Look what you assholes did to South Africa and are now doing to Australia. I’m a second class citizen in my own country as a result. So no, not a one ever should have been allowed in as far as I’m concerned.
LOL. Do yo really imagine deploying that term here is useful or meaningful? Can you even help it? It’s like a nervous tic. WTF does it even mean, anyway? Just another weasel word for human chameleons. If you mean anti-Jewish, why don’t you just say it, rather than wrapping yourselves in some broader identity (just like with the sleazy Judeo-Christian schtick). Can an ‘anti-semite’ have Jewish friends? Because I do. But that’s a rhetorical question. I don’t like you. It would be nice if you never address me again.
If you got to Auschwicz when even the dimmest SS guard would be worried about just how soon the Red Army would be there you would be pretty safe I guess. That’s why Anne Frank nearly survived.
Well, I assume you’re just another one of the totally dishonest Jewish activist-types who hangs around here. But on the off-chance that you might be sincere but extremely ignorant, you should take a look at my very comprehensive review article from a couple of years ago on the Liberty Incident, that discusses all those issues in considerable detail:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/
Those are not my claims. Joseph P. Farrell has a Ph.D. from Oxford and provides references for all his claims concerning the Nazi atom bomb project, and they sound very credible once you examine the multiple sources and references he quotes.
Of course I’m aware of Reitlinger’s books. But he was a (probably Jewish) British art historian who developed an eccentric fixation upon the supposed Holocaust, and as far as I know, his books were only read by Jewish activists. That’s why I included the word “mainstream” in my question.
Don’t forget that the Holocaust had been a mainstay of British wartime propaganda and none of the Allied governments ever publicly admitted it had just been a hoax, so I’m sure that lots of ordinary people continued to believe in it, just like probably hundreds of millions today still believe in the Forty Beheaded Babies hoax. Furthermore, the Israeli government continued promoting it into the 1950s, which is what inspired Beaty’s sharp criticism. But none of the serious historians seemed to believe it and the mainstream just ignored it.
Meanwhile, around the same time, a French Communist historian named Paul Rassinier, who’d actually been imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps, published the first books debunking the Holocaust story, though they weren’t translated into English for a number of years. Since almost nobody in America paid attention to the Holocaust, nobody paid attention to Holocaust Denial.
And if we’re talking about this period, I’d repeat something I’d quoted from Faurisson mentioned in my text:
One more amusing point. There are apparently declassified documents in which British propagandists describe how they had invented stories about the Germans killing people in gas chambers and blasting these into Occupied Europe as propaganda to hurt the Nazis, while being a little concerned that the claims were so ridiculous they might backfire.
So according to the orthodox Holocaust narrative, by an absolutely amazing coincidence, the Nazis suddenly decided to begin using real gas chambers not long after the British propagandists had begun drenching Europe with totally fabricated stories about the same thing.
Well, it depends on the individual, of course. But the small minority that understand enough to blame Jews tend to be much better informed than average, in general, so I would say that most of them understand that a big part of the problem is lowlife gentile collaborators. I think that Henry Makow’s got it right when he refers to the culprits as the Judeo-Masonic Mafia. (henrymakow.com)
There are a lot of non-Jewish Americans that ought to face a firing squad. That said, yes, evil Jews have been the largest factor in America’s crimes and its sorry state.
Well, I’m exceptionally skeptical. Apparently his book is called Reich Of The Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons and he sounds like a total crank and crackpot, or maybe a swindler. He apparently specializes in all sorts of weird things, including UFOs and Transhumanism.
Here’s what he said on his Amazon page:
If he’d really attended Oxford, wouldn’t he have said so?
Since I’ve never heard of him, why don’t you provide a link to the highest-credibility individual or publication that has endorsed his work or even taken it seriously. I’d guess he’s not quite mainstream enough to have ever been mentioned by Alex Jones.
Right – and the 2 % Jewish population in America has not taken over the US Government. Not the Federal Reserve, not the Dept of Comerce, not the Congress – lol I live in old Хазария { Novo Rossiya } and I can honestly see that – the CHka has now moved to America and you will see the same Jewish massacre in America as in Gaza. In fact it has already started. Удачи
He never claimed to have a degree in Physics, and your quote mentions that his publisher made this claim.
I have not read a single one of his books. I have listened to dozens and dozens of hours of interviews on YouTube. He is described as a crackpot, indeed. He speculates a lot, and many of his claims about aliens and Egyptian pyramids are wild speculations. When you listen to him you know that a scholarly type is speaking, totally different from all other so-called crackpots, so I believe he has a Ph.D. in Patristics. He often qualifies his own speculations as being just that, wild speculations.
His research into Nazi history however does not sound like crackpottery to me. But maybe I am not qualified to judge. He claims that after the breakup of the Soviet Union a lot of archives from East Germany that used to classified became available to the public. He quotes a number of authors’ names and books and other publications but I don’t remember any specifics. Perhaps his sources are questionable, I don’t know. Or maybe he jumps to conclusions unwarranted by his sources. It is possible. He also provides some interesting information about the connections between Mohammad Atta and IG Farben.
I think one of his emails is public ([email protected]) if you wish to contact him directly perhaps he might be willing to provide you with some answers, if you ask him politely without labeling him a crackpot.
P.S. He published a book called Yahweh the Two-Faced God and another called Babylon’s banksters (he does not sound Zionist to me, though he never criticizes Jews directly)
Its clear that historically to this day, jews have been in a very significant role in a lot of movements and groups, which have often been very negative to everybody, but what I meant by american and british accusing jews of EVERYTHING, I find that even jews are more honest than american and british, which is a lot said. American and british never admit doing anything wrong and something being their own fault. They are neurotically putting blame on others and its never their own fault. American and british have minds and personalities of a typical criminal. You often hear criminals thinking like american and british think.
Even jewish Henry Kissinger stated that its worse being friend of american/british and in this he was perfectly right. Like professor Mearsheimer described, an american or british will first hug you like his best friend, until he doesnt need you or something else is more beneficial. Totally disgusting users and manipulators of people and pretenders of being christian, when in fact they are clear satanists in disguises.
History is written by victors. If they say something is true or not true and just repeat it for decades, it becomes true without any evidence. American, british and many jews have done this for few hundred of years now. Thats why a lot of modern history views are complete rubbish, not based on anything and a lot of history isnt told as it went, because the victors have written the history how ever they wanted and they didnt allow much negative views. This would undermine their claims and image of being oh so moral, oh so good, so cultured, forces of good.
You can drop the “probably”, because he was interred at the Willesden United Synagogue Cemetery, and was thus definitely Jewish.
https://pt.findagrave.com/memorial/255765636/gerald-roberts-reitlinger
The Wikipedia page does not have any information about his Jewish origin, but you can consult it for his complete name and years of birth and death and then compare that information with that on the Find a Grave page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Reitlinger
Anne Frank nearly survived because she was sent to a hospital, rather than to a (non-existent) homicidal gas chamber, and she was sent to a hospital because there was no mass extermination program.
Irene Weiss repeatedly said in interviews/speeches, “ the very first thing they did at the train platform is to separate children, babies, and their mothers and kill them within a half hour to an hour upon arriving..” And, “ there were no children in that place.”
Irene, who arrived to A-B in May/June 1944, at the age of 13, explains her survival by a fortuitous haircut that she received before arrival, therefore she appeared older, and her life was spared.
Irene claims that the Nazis forced them to evacuate upon the approach of the Soviets, whilst Paula Lebovics said all the inmates had an option to remain, and she (Paula) remained. Her photo was amongst the photos of the children in striped pajamas that is found in the Auschwitz genocide Album.
Thanks. I’d seen an explicit claim online that Reitlinger came from a Gentile background, but was suspicious, given his name, his father having been a banker, and his preoccupation with the Holocaust and Nazi Germany. So it looks like my suspicions were correct.
Well, people who get most of their knowledge of the world from watching videos are generally stupid people.
That’s especially true if those videos involve aliens, Egyptian pyramids, and secret Nazi atomic bombs.
Well, clearly we’re not going to change each others’ minds, as we seem to have already arrived at restating our initial assertions.
While I acknowledge some truth in what you say, you greatly over-state your case. It’s quite rich to say “even jews are more honest than american and british”. You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but in light of the vast network of institutionalized lying called the ‘mass media’ run by Jews, it’s a pretty laughable opinion. I think what you’ll find is that the worst Americans and Brits are the ones thoroughly Judaized, in perfect alignment with their Jewish indoctrination.
Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder due to unfortunate interactions with some asshole Americans &/or Brits (heaven knows there are plenty of them), and you’ve drawn exaggerated generalized conclusions. You seem to have a weak understanding of just how intertwined Jews have become with the power structures in the US & Britain, and how that has played out over generations.
Or maybe you’re just another of countless disingenuous Jewish termites seeking to deflect and distribute blame.
A large portion of commenters here at Unz are dedicated to collective accusations playing into divide and conquer. A bunch more just wallow in despair and doomsaying. That is to say, TUR suffers from a high parasite load of trolls.
Since our good friend Patrick McNallywitcz will not be able to refute the veracity of your comment, he’ll probably ignore it.
Farrell starts with a few facts and then ventures into conspiracy fan fiction. His conjectures can be quite entertaining. He is one of the world’s foremost proponents of Nazis from outer space, who used their Die Glocke anti-gravity technology to escape from the Allies. He also claims that a loan from Martin Bormann became due in 2001 and this was related to 9/11. Not a serious researcher
> On whose authority was the plaque for 4 million made in the first place?
By the authorities in Poland, most likely with some approval from Moscow. That plaque had nothing to do with Western historiography at all. It was part of the propaganda maintained in the Warsaw Pact up until 1989.
Ok, therefore everything written about Adolf Hitler/World War II in the mainstream is not true.
The so-called Holocaust is presented as truth with no actual evidence. The legal prohibitions in Europe/Canada serve no other purpose than to prevent public inquiry or any refutation of the official narrative. If it was true, no such legislation would be necessary, nor would all the grisly details arrive in force 25 years later.
I have yet to see/read you whinge on about the lies of the Soviets/Bolsheviks; Or, the brutality of the Arabs, Turks, Mongols, Africans, et al, the grisly details of which are curiously obscured from mainstream history, although technically none in that group were/are victors over the West.
For some particular reason, millions of people clamor to arrive to the oh so moral, oh so good, America/England.
I can’t defend the American government, nor the English, but the people are a different matter – the legacy people – the European-blooded people. For better or worse, the prosperity in the Middle East arrived by the discovery of oil, which was made by the English, and the world has electricity grids, automobile travel, air travel, advanced communications, etc., due to European exceptionalism; and in every case – free/open society, technology – a certain group has arrived to use it to their own ends and exploit whenever/wherever opportunities arise or opportunities can be created – it seems a cockamamie notion, but it also seems true.
Why don’t you stop blabbering on about Americans/Brits and paddle on over to North Sentinel Island to live the life you oh so desire – free from White Devil hellscapes.
People who make comments such as the ones quoted above are generally intellectually lazy, careless, and narrow-minded people.
> Don’t forget that the Holocaust had been a mainstay of British wartime propaganda
That isn’t really true. If anything, Allied propaganda on all sides (UK, US, USSR) tended to downplay any special focus on Jews. No one was interested in playing up to Hitler’s charges that the war was being fought for Jews. Jews could get mentioned occasionally, but nothing about Allied propaganda ever gave a sharp focus to Jews.
If you want actual listings of members in the highest ranks of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union and a general identification of which members were Jewish then this page should be helpful:
http://holocaust.skeptik.net/misc/party.htm
Not to my knowledge. He talks about the Nazi bell having been an experimental project. The farthest he went was to say that it is possible that some of the technology developed in that project may have been transferred to Argentina. He does not even agree with those who claim that post WW2 Nazis are hiding in a base in Antarctica.
Nazis in outer space in flying saucer with a base on the moon? He has not even speculated about such things to my knowledge. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I agree with you well reasoned, and well constructed statements. Rather than add my own addition, I cite the following which encapsulates what I wanted to say in the main.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/they-are-programming-you
It seems nothing is beyond the beastiality of kikes.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/18/716600/Iran-Kamal-Adwan-Hospital-Gaza--Nasser-Kan-ani-alive-Palestinians-
Don’t trust Unbornawakened. He is a jewish Troll, acts different from other crazy Troll. He is not very aggressive, but acts like a divider, putting one against the other, is trying to create doubts. If you go through his comments you will find out he is very much against Arabs including Palestinians but soft on one and hard on others. One thing is obvious that Israel is not his target.
Farrell is the type of author that catches your attention when you first discover him. Then you read his books and feel underwhelmed. The pattern seems to be that he selects three or four sources, then makes connections between them, and speculates on possible what-ifs. Perhaps I am conflating him with someone else. It has been a few years, but this is my recollection of what he wrote about and talked about in interviews
There are entire libraries devoted to factionalism in Arab nations, Tiptoes, so much information that I am entirely unable to even begin an answer to your question.
There is information on Donmeh/”Young Turks” you might want to research ref Jews. One feature of crypto Jewish power that is CONSISTENTLY SEEN is persection of Christians. By this I mean authentic ie Orthodox Christianity, the kind of bullshit you see in USA, “baptists” and the like, is no threat to Jews.
Ref Cyrus I. Scofield “bible notes” and Samuel Untermeyer.
You may make of this what you will.
But I advise long and thoughtful consideration.
Secondly, you are wasting your time (valuable though some of your content may be) in responding to “Patrick McNally” who has been identified correctly as a devious troll, including by Mr Unz. In reference to this, please re-read the latter half of Mein Kampf chapter 2 on debating with Jews. It is very useful imho.
https://mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v1c2.htm
Ron, …. on the Christian Zionist front, ….. I don’t really know what was being discussed in Christian religious circles, generally, in the 1950’s (before my time) except to note there seems to have been a deep melancholy and desire for self-discipline, that befell certain 1950’s Christian strains – Thomas Merton and his writing for example – that apparently dissipated more-or-less within Christian circles in the 1960’s (in the wake of Vatican 2), which was the beginning of my time of much Christian exposure (born 1959), … which I can more-so speak about by way of my own personal experience.
So, …. I don’t really know what my grandmother and her many Christian Zionist colleagues were talking about, among themselves, in the 1950’s, prior to the release of Hal Lindsey’s 1970 book ‘The Late Great Planet Earth’ (that spelled out the crazy Christian Zionist end-times doctrine, in gaudy technicolor), …. however I can tell you that the family lore (my mother telling it, … and my mother was very devout too but not a Christian Zionist, …. contemplating that horror was too much for her gentle soul to bear) has it that my grandmother and her many colleagues (including at least one sister) were earlier beholden to this very same end-times doctrine as preached by the tent revival evangelists that swept North America during the 1920’s and 1930’s. But maybe grandma and grand-auntie stopped talking about it in the 1950’s? – I dunno. However, I can also tell you Ron, that I have known (at work and elsewhere) quite a few people from very arcane Christian sects that believe in their own end-times prophets of not the pre-war era, but the post-war era, ….. William Branham … commencing his ministry in 1946. And so at least is some very small circles, this crazy Christian Zionist end-times stuff now featured in the 1950’s (at which time Branham grew in popularity).
What does what I offer here have to do with the popularity or not of the holocaust discussion, during the 1950’s? Quite alot, I think. Because there already were tons and tons of Christians in North America, by that time (the 1950’s) that did believe (or at least consider) this crazy Christian Zionist end-times stuff featuring the rebuilding of King Solomon’s temple, as a necessary foretold sign or precondition (fucking awful prophesy-making machinery again … this time of the Christian ilk) of the coming Antichrist, who will bring conflagration, and usher in a 7-year period [if I am remembering that part right as to number of years] of dreadful strife, … all to be resolved by the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, to gather his remaining flock [the loyal remnant] to reign supreme upon a peaceful earth for 1,000 years. I think the whole holocaust narrative plays very well, into the hands, of these crazy Christian Zionist end-times tropes, which tropes were already apparent by way of the rather massive tent revival evangelicals of the 1920’s and 1930’s. Maybe it took these Christian Zionists a couple of decades though, to put it together, that the holocaust trope helps their end-times cause. Perhaps this false holocaust trope (I respect your scholarship around this issue, Ron) would not have caught on without the presence of these numerous Christian end-times Zionists in North America, and then this group finally realizing the the holocaust trope helps their end-times cause. Also, from a personal anecdote perspective, …. by the time I was in grade 7 (maybe even earlier) they began to show us alot of 8 mm or 16 mm films in class (everybody usually liked film time because it was such a novel break, at the time) of completely naked Jewish men, women, and children, being herded around on their way to their deaths, all to be shot naked in the snow and dumped into a mass grave, …… which was just all so jarring (the nakedness was a very weird departure, to show in class, for those times, late 1960’s early 1970’s, for one thing), …… plus the young mind was left with this burning question screaming in their minds (at least my mind): Why were these people not fighting to their last breath to avoid this execution, instead of being so passive? It was so weird to me, at the time (because this funsy-not holocaust-film time did not stop), …. I started to glean that the old lady teachers were getting off on it. Weird, …. the first embers of the then growing feminist victimhood shtick, feminists liking this particular holocausty victimhood shtick in order to put the masculine-western-mode on trial, type thing, …. which at the time of course, all I knew, as a little kid, was that the old ladies were getting off (tells apparent) on this horror show and that that was mighty weird. It was only much much later (only 20 years ago, or so) that I figured what had been going on, all along with the various weirder and weirder permutations of feminism.
Anyways, …. not a direct answer to your query, but perhaps it may help, all round, …. the provision of the various historical insights on this we may each have (even if partially anecdotal).
What I said about the Liberty is true, and nothing you or anyone else wrote can erase that simple and crucial fact. I note the total lack of acknowledgement from both you and the OP that his initial claim or accusation that Israel/Jews have never paid compensation for harm they have done is visibly, objectively false. Instead you “accused” me of being Jewish and posted a link to a Liberty article that, again, in no way erases the reality of what I wrote.
For all the self-congratulation you and this site do about bravely stating unpopular things, why don’t you have the courage to defy and annoy your masses of Jew-hating readers by acknowledging the simple reality of what I said, and how it refutes the claim I responded to?
Instead you join the hordes of yahoos yelling “JOOO”?
Whether I’m Jewish or not is irrelevant to the facts I am pointing out. I’d expect your site’s commenters – and some of its writers — to make such an irrelevant “accusation” — but I must say that, despite your own swimming in the muck of kookery like Holocaust denial etc, I was still surprised you would do that.
As it happens, I’m not Jewish in any way – religious, ethnic, you name it – and never have been, nor am I at all likely to ever be. I do not practice Judaism and never have; I have no Jewish ancestors or descendants; nor am I married to anyone Jewish in any way, etc etc. (“Not,” as the saying goes, “that there’s anything wrong with that.”)
So why do I stick up for them here? Because I think of them as one of us (or at worst similar enough to be allies or friends). Because regardless of whether they are “us” I care about the truth and they’re being maligned. And because I understand that, especially for pro-whites and race realists, falling into the rabbit hole of delusionary thinking that places Jews at the center of everything and blames them for all our problems is a suicidal disaster. It repels the mass of people we desperately need to reach and activate (ordinary decent whites). It plays into the hands of our enemies. It completely unnecessarily provokes formidable and even crushing opposition that would otherwise be weaker or even non-existent.
The hour is extremely late – every year a vast number of low-IQ mestizos and other aliens swarms across the border or overstays. We can’t afford the luxury of indulging in phantasms; we have to face reality as it is.
Having said all that, as I’ve said elsewhere here, if I were on a site that had a sycophantic level of Judeophilia like the evangelicals who believe God has ordered everyone to always support Jews and Israel regardless of anything else, or which accused ordinary Christians who want school prayer or Christmas / Easter displays of being anti-Semitic, etc., I’d be criticizing THEM and be accused constantly of being a Nazi.
Further, IDF again assaults Jabalia Refugee Camp, killing another 100 +.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/100-killed--100-under-rubble-in-new-jabalia-massacre
Plus
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/-new-guantanamo---hundreds-of-gazan-detainees-killed-under-t
How is it going to be possible for this bloodstained monster “Israel” to be allowed to continue to exist in the company of civilised nations in the future ?
How can it be justified ?
Pretzel? You are quite the gadfly, however ultimately not very effective as you are nearly always flat-ass wrong. There are thousands of headlines/articles that prove your supposition wrong.
The Waterbury Democrat
November 30, 1938
MORE WARNINGS FROM GERMANY
Danger for all Jews in Naziland – Americans Held up to Scorn
By FREDERICK OECHSNER
(United Press Staff Correspondent)
Berlin, Nov. 30 – (UP) – Das Schwarze Korps, official organ of the
the elite Blackshirt Guards, warned today that any attempt on the life of a German official by a Jew or a person inspired by Jews would result in the extermination of Jews in Germany.
In the same editorial, the publication attacked President Roosevelt, “Joy drunk” Americans, and the American Press.
[…] “the American government, neither banned nor reprimanded the newspaper. It did not even declare that it deplored either the proposal itself or the attitude of the newspaper.”
Detroit Evening Times
October 8, 1943
GESTAPO RAIDS ON DANISH JEWS HITLER’S OWN IDEA
Evening Star (Washington D.C.)
February 23, 1943
Palestine Jews Assail Lack of Allied Action
[…] denounced what it called the lack of effective action by Allied and neutral countries to liberate from Nazi-occupied Europe Jews who were described as being in danger of complete extermination….
The Ypsilanti Daily Press
April 20, 1943
London – The Nazis since the start of the war have slain 2,000,000 Jewish men, women and children and 5,000,000 other Jews are in immediate danger of extinction, the inter-Allied information committee on occupied countries said today.
Exactly so. Allied propaganda (Anglo-Americans and Soviets had different reasons) downplayed Nazi crimes against Jews. Articles like this one from 1942 were rare: Daily Telegraph (5th page in 6 page issue):
https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/27/daily-telegraphs-holocaust-article-in-1942-that-went-unheralded
The big comparison I didn’t see made in this article is the way these two genocides/ethnocides are treated under Israeli Law.
As most of your readers are probably familiar with, it is illegal in Israel , Canada and 17 European countries to deny, distort or minimize the Holocaust (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial)
However, what most of your readers may not be aware of is that in Israel it is illegal to recognize, acknowledge or commemorate the Nakba. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Law or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial#Legislation)
While other countries have not adopted such legislation (yet), many countries have passed laws making it illegal to voice support for a boycott of Israel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws)
Given that I am visually impaired (glasses cannot correct for my loss of vision), for the past 15 years I have stopped reading books. I can read and type on a computer because I use very large fonts. That is why I have not purchased any of his books, as I got to know him only recently, not because I am stupid as Mr. Unz seems to imply.
As far as crackpots go, and I don’t like to apply this label gratuitously to Dr. Farrell as I have a lot of respect for his scholarship and intellectual prowess, he is unique. He is very meticulous in his research and always provides sources and references that are in print. People who label him without having read a single book or listened to a single interview, and like only to do a quick google search where his detractors defame him, are just ignorant people who think they know it all.
What I like about him is that despite his scholarly background he dares to speculate about many topics forbidden deemed unworthy by academics. He likes “weird stuff” as he admits.
And I have no doubt he has a Ph.D. from Oxford. Boris Johnson and him were classmates at Oxford. Mr. Unz likes to defame people he knows nothing about based on a 1 minute google search and I have lost all respect for him. Not that I had much respect before, he is always promoting his own views and seems to be afflicted with an inflated sense of self-importance. Mr. Unz seems to jumps to conclusions with far less reliable sources than Dr. Farrell, and Dr. Farrell’s breadth and depth of knowledge far exceeds that of Mr. Unz. On the other hand, I disagree with many of Dr. Farrel’s opinions on many subjects, and I find some of his speculations ridiculous if not laughable. Though on Nazi Germany he has many interesting things to say, partly because he is fluent in German and has access to many sources that are not translated in English.
You’re correct that Israel did pay pathetic sums as compensation. But that money came from a larger than usual foreign aid package from the United States taxpayers.
While America was being destroyed by Jewish affirmative action, aiding abetting and encouraging black on White crime desegregation and aiding abetting and encouraging the destruction of our great cities by the black criminals so beloved by Jews. Jews hate the goyim so much that although American Jews were always city dwellers they destroyed the great cities that were Jewish strongholds.
Of course of course, no compensation PROVIDED by Israel or Jews is ever enough.
No need to speculate how you’d portray Jewish/Israeli complaints that compensation they RECEIVE is not enough. You’d be TOTALLY sympathetic and understanding, and would NEVER portray them as holding a bitter grudge forever despite apologies, crassly milking a tragedy over and over to extract more cash, etc. Right?
Still, for foreign aid, I agree it was always outrageous and irritating that Israel ever got any foreign aid from us.
Sure, they may have started from a low point in a poor land ravaged by internal and international conflict, inhabited increasingly by (mostly destitute and traumatized) refugees from Europe, but this was a country of high-IQ people that would have prospered and reached First World status without any aid from us, as Hong Kong and Singapore did, and as Jewish immigrants to the US and their descendants did.
It should be said that taxpayer provided economic aid for Israel ended a long time ago, and the only “aid” Israel has been getting is purely military, and that money comes right back to us in the form of purchase orders for military hardware, thus helping our strategically important defense sector and industrial workforce.
I agree with you that the lopsided US Jewish support for liberal/left policies on race, including crime (at least in the past) and affirmative action, is infuriating, not least because it’s so idiotically self-defeating FOR THEM as well as us. So much, at least, for Jew-haters’ claims that Jews pull all the strings in society to benefit themselves, that they are genetically super-selfish and uniquely ethnocentric, etc. — quite the contrary, as I keep pointing out, both Jews and non-Jewish whites adopt suicidally stupid policies out of misguided idealism and/or competing for social status according to destructive norms.
Those quotes don’t help your case. In particilar they are not MSM which might be influenced by the desire to avoid supporting the Nazi narrative that the Jews are guilty
Well done. But it’s sad that Ron is being so subjected to the thousand cuts of fact hounds that that he loses credit for the value his vigorous mind and hard work have provided.
I am not surprised by allrgations that Allied propaganda invented joax gas chambers even made in all honesty ny insiders. It is not difficult to imsgine a middling level propaganda officer, ignorant of anything behind the Daily Telegraph 1042 story, rubbing his hands at the way they used those marvellous – but surely fabricated -stories that someone who wanted a feed had given them.
I write this on my way to finding a place to tell Ron about some devastating attacks on his favourite US pro Russian propagandists, Douglas Macgregor and Grayzone, for which Ron begind to look like the useful idiot.
We all know what The Ooze’s idea of a ‘devastating attack’ is. Some scoop (of faeces) from the Kiev Daily Banderite or some Atlanticist shit-tank. As Healey said, it’s like being savaged by a dead sheep.
The text in the box is the claim/assertion of Pretzel. He said the issue regarding the Jews was downplayed, or not made a central point, regarding Hitler/Germany/the war.
I selected four random mainstream newspapers for reference, out of thousands, that indicate otherwise. I excluded the information contained within the Jewish World/Jewish American publications.
The “plight” of the Jews, in the crosshairs of Pagan Rome and/or Christian Europe, since the beginning of Christian Europe, is everywhere, all the time, never withheld, always cited, constantly decried, since Moloch decided the world belonged to himself and his minions.
Mr. Oz, it is not a rumor that Jews control media/Hollywood/publishing/banking/vulture capitalism/communism/pornography – their over-representation, and sometimes complete control (Hollywood/ABC/NBC/CBS/History Channel/Disney), is easily independently verified. You should look into it yourself.
It can’t possibly be by coincidence, can it?
Why couldn’t western nations support the Nazis? Why wasn’t Hitler’s message accurately reported? If you are interested in a translation of his comments on war, in general, you let me know.
Yes, it should have been the ‘Late, Sometimes Great, Human Race’. The planet Earth will recover from our destructiveness after a few million years, and we’ll just be an ever fainter electro-magnetic memory, preserved on endless repeats of ‘Bilko’ and ‘Dr Who’, telling other species what a dreadful mess we made of it all.
I waa about to thank you tentatively for that but as you can see below I now remain unimpressed with what you say about war time beliefs and actions on the Allied side (e.g. I can believe that some ptopaganda officer THOUGHT he was running with a splendidly ghoulish fake story).
Now I want to help you tune your credibility by asking yourself how you could have gone so far down the line with Douglas MacGregor
1/16 https://t.co/lDRw12utRv
(https://twitter.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1609831498156331008?s=03)
Then he turns on Grayzone which you have cited to me
1/13 https://t.co/p6rpp6qF61
(https://twitter.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1609560497384308736?s=03)
OK I haven’t compared what he says about Grayzone with what you cited to mecas sources. But it’s you that really needs to get it right and I hope this is helpful.
Thank you, Mr. MacBride. I’m familiar with Scofield, et al, but not the Young Turks, other than cursory information – I’ll give it a study.
On McNally = Pretzel, he’s a thorn-in-the-side, but I am stubborn, and frankly, I’m indignant over the lies we have been spoon fed, and the danger/misery wrought upon Christian/European nations, and the ongoing creep into the rest of the world. In the real world, I don’t pick fights, but I don’t back down if someone wants an argument. I just can not abide the Bolshevik Pretzel.
We seem to be going down, as predicted, and maybe I will, as well, but I’m going out swinging, until the bitter end, just like the Fuhrer said to do.
I will re-read that chapter, but I’m not letting Pretzel get away with his nonsense.
Szmul Zygielbojm behind teh 1942 Daily Telegraph article committed suicide in May 1943 in protest of indifference of Allies to the plight of Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szmul_Zygielbojm
Jan Karski, courier from Poland reported about annihilation of Jews to FDR, Felix Frankfurter and others in the US in 1943 who unfortunately did not show sufficient interest perhaps of too much crying the wolf by Jews in the past or because it was important to not make the WWII appear as a war for Jews. But by the end of 1943 Polish Jews were no more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Karski
FDR’s administration feared the charged of ‘a war for the Jews’.
Sept 25 1945 letter of Thomas J. Dodd from Nuremberg to his wife in the US:
Jan Karski recounts his meeting with Felix Frankfurter in 1943:
https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/karski-recalls-his-meeting-with-united-states-supreme-court-justice-felix-frankfurter-1943-claude-lanzmann/dgFS7OKiw9qznQ?hl=en
Further to my first reply comment (#586), … perhaps you are familiar with the movie ‘O Brother, Where Art Thou?’.
Those Coen Brothers are very sensitive artists (western treasures to my mind) who love and deeply appreciate the character types they give life to in their visual stories. The brothers caught the vibe of the 1930’s tent revival evangelicals, in that movie. These are the people (gentle Christian folk, for the most part) that can easily take on Christian Zionist themes, and as far as I know, did take up such themes, as early as back in the 1920’s and 1930’s.
White people. So much to like. Even though they (we) go bonkers, on the regular, and are gullible in the most endearing ways (it’s enhanced neoteny, in my estimation). Truth be told, the Jewish mind is a good match for the western mind, ….. if only. There needs to be some love. Those Coen Brothers get it.
Sorry it took so long to respond, I have been really busy with work and every time I started a response I fell asleep. I am surprised that you would ask me to find you stuff about the Holocaust and as you know the tick tock facts are mostly propaganda. No one from Israel ever claimed that 40 babies were beheaded. You know that most news is made up.
Odd you would ask me for information from the 1950’s, as proof that the lack of writing concerning the Holocaust must prove that it is a fake a hoax. I have been on UR for many years and have repeated my story often, odd you would question me on facts. I will recap incase your forgot.
At 70, many of my mother’s family were survivors. My parents sponsored relatives from DP camps in Europe allowing them to immigrate to the US. Not just my family, I grew up in religious Jewish community of survivors. I was raised with their children, and knew many survivors. You might say I was steeped in the Holocaust like a tea bag. There are also in my family 2 PhD’s in Holocaust Studies, as well as a famous Nazi Hunter. So you are asking me why we never discussed the Holocaust in the 1950’s. That is your question? Like we decided to invent the Holocaust in the 1960’s?
So Ron, I am sure my family is not that much different then your family, do you think we sat around one day in 1960’s and decide to create a Holocaust myth that the Germans planned to murder all of European Jewry, by inventing gas chambers and ovens? Would anyone in your family make up a story with gas chambers and cremation ovens, like a major death industry. Would you invent something like that? Would anyone you know invent a story about locking Jews in a room and killing them with poison gas, then dragging their bodies men, women and children to ovens to be cremated on mass? Speak up if you know someone.
The survivors did not discuss their experiencess, because as survivors they were humiliated and had tremendous guilt about surviving when there was so much death around them. I never heard of Auschwitz until I went to college. I thought there was one concentration camp that housed all the Jews. I knew nothing about the specifics. The survivors were so humiliated, and guilty that they would have preferred to be SS guards, or Himmler rather than survivors. I guess you are really clueless about the human conditions that motivate people.
So how did we know that the Germans planed the deliberate murder of Eastern European Jews, men women and children.? What a great question. The survivors would take out photographs of their families to show us. This is my mother, my father, my Grandmother. This is my sister, her husband…….. and then they would say they were all dead. They did not make it out of the war. So simple Ron. That is how we knew. Life really is simple and basic. People die and then you never see them again. Here today gone tomorrow. That is the way it was. You go somewhere with your family and most of them disappear at the train station.
My cousin Ben Shuster came to Baltimore, he had lost 10 brothers and sisters and his parents, He had been in the Polish army as he did not look Jewish, and escaped. He bought grocery store in an all black neighborhood, with borrowed money. After a few years he bought more food stores, and then he started the first grocery store chain called Key Foods, he bought food in bulk as a distributor inexpensively and warehoused it, which allowed him to sell products at cheaper prices then other stores. He worked 7 days a week, Key Foods was the first food store chain and is a case study at the Harvard Business school. Ben Shuster died a multi millionaire with generational wealth for his family. So that is the way it all rolled Ron. Before they all died (the survivors), they told their stories. My families stories were recorded by the Fortunoff foundation and stored in the Yale Library, you need a password to access it.
So back to Finkelstien. You say his family “might” have died in the Holocaust. No his family on both sides were gassed and cremated in gas chambers in Auschwitz. And as for Shayak, he wrote about what it was like growing up in a camp and watching people die around him.To Shayak the sadism and cruelty he witnessed was beyond understanding. Why not read what he wrote, you really respect him. You can access his memoirs. People being shot over a bowl of soup. That is what Shayak said.
And while the Jewish deaths have little impact on the entirety of the war deaths, it is important to note that at no time in history, has any army sought out non combatants from a country that they occupied for death and destruction. If Rome was conquering a country, they murdered everyone in that country, but they did not seek out to murder citizens from other neighboring countries. We are talking beyond medieval sadism and barbarity. The Germans were sadist, they went into the countries they invaded and without jurisprudence took citizenship away from that countries Jews , stole their houses, land, money, art and all their possessions, rounded them up into ghettoes, then proceeded to invade the ghettoes in the East with murder squadrons that gunned them down, or they were shipped to camps, worked to death, starved to death died of disease, or they were gassed and cremated. Most Jews died the day they arrived at the camps.
An example: There were 2.1 million Polish Jewish citizens in 1939, there were 20,000 left in 1945. In Hungary there were 800,000 Jews in 1939 and 200,000 in 1945. Country by country, If you survived the war, there was no home to go back to. There was almost no Jews left in occupied German countries. By design by the Germans.
The Germany’s hunting and rounding up of the Jews was so shocking it enraged the world against the Germans, and made the end for them by carpet bombing their cities. This is why I do not understand your question about silence of the Holocaust until 1960. You say that there was nothing written in the 1950’s. But during the war everyone knew what was happening to the Jews. There were messages sent to the allies by every resistance army throughout Europe, it was not a secret. There was a lot of discussions about bombing the rail roads to the camps. There were soldiers from many countries that liberated the camps and saw what happened in those camps. You complaining that there was no literature published in the 1950’s, cannot stand as your reason for believing that the Holocaust as told is a hoax,
Finally there is a rubicon that you cross when denying the Holocaust and the systematic design to murder all the men women and children so there would be no future Jewish generation.. That rubicon Ron (that the Jews made up the stories and they were not real ) is what separates real historians from fake ones. Intelligent people from crazy people. Conspirators from the true students of history. In other words Ron, it does not matter much what you think vis a vie the truth about the Holocaust as told, more importantly it is what people think of you. No one thinks much of Holocaust deniers in 2023. All deniers like John Wear can say is : ” There were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz”. Don’t you find that response a little lame Ron?
I think your historical writings are pretty useless, at this point in time. You got a big rope around your neck. No normal person is a Holocaust denier in 2023.
If you hunt through all of the media reports, then you obviously will find statements made by Jewish groups attempting to promote their own special cause. For a more general overview, you might start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_propaganda_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Britain_is_at_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_of_the_Lightship
Frannie keeps talking about the effect but never the cause.
Why did the Germans do what they did, Frannie? The same reason the Americans (and all other European and European-derived homelands) will do what they will do…
mess with people’s homelands, don’t expect them to be overjoyed….
It’s a Jewish fundamental value to welcome the stranger, goy!
This presentation does not strike me as having been written by its alleged poster. Looks like a joint effort by an intel agency.
Most likely? How did they arrive to the figure of 4 million murdered? Why doesn’t/didn’t the reduction in deaths at A-B change the official number?
(2023) Council of Europe
“To forget a Holocaust is to kill twice” – Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and human rights campaigner. The Holocaust is the name given to the systematic murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and their allies during the Second World War.
[…] The “Final Solution” was devised in 1942 and soon afterwards mass killing began in the gas chambers of camps like Treblinka and Belzec. The slaughter was only stopped by the allied invasion of Germany and Nazi-occupied Poland in 1945.
[…] The Holocaust was one of the reasons why the Council of Europe was set up in 1949, just four years after the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau. The aim was to prevent such a genocide happening again in Europe, and to ensure that human life and human rights would be respected, no matter what the person’s nationality, ethnicity, race, religion or sexual orientation. Within its wider role of promoting and protecting human rights, democracy and the rule of law, the Council of Europe works to combat anti-Semitism, homophobia and anti-gypsyism, and to promote the rights of Roma, LGBTI people and the disabled.
The end.
I checked for archival information regarding The Holocaust, and the homicidal gas chambers, in relation to the Council of Europe – one of the primary reasons for formation – for about ten years, 1949-1959 – and I found nothing. Here’s what I did find:
The Sunday Star, Washington DC, Sunday, February 6, 1949
Mutual Defense Issue Barred In Proposed Council of Europe
Move to Bar Red Criticism
The communique said discussion of common defense matters would be barred.
This was interpreted as a move to forestall Soviet criticism of a European Parliament by leaving the problem of mutual defense to the North Atlantic defense pact now being discussed by the United States and Canada with Western European powers…
Russians Charge Plot
… since the decision to set up a council of Europe, Russian leaders have criticized, moves toward western unity as a plot against the Soviet Union and her satellite bloc.
By excluding defense from the council powers, the Western Union planners hope to make it easier for the Scandinavian powers to join without drawing pressure from Russia, one informed source said.
Evening Star, May 15th, 1949
The council of Europe has little to do with the Cold War. It is the outcome of the movement for European unity – a unity that is desired by many Europeans for its own sake, quite apart from any Russian menace. If the Council of Europe serves any immediate political purpose, it is that of making peace with Germany rather than of waging Cold War against Russia.
Evening Star, July 24, 1949
Italian Senate Approves Role in European Council.
[…] Communist senators …sat glum…[…] The council was formed by 10 Western European countries. It will be limited to debate and recommendations on political, cultural, and some economic matters….
Evening Star, August 19, 1950
Council Talks Reveal Alarming Indecision on Red Peril in Europe*
Strasburg, this month, revealed a picture of alarming indecision. Despite the transcendental peril that confronts Europe…
The end.
*Whoops! I guess Hitler was right, after all. I wonder why/how the Cold War started so soon after 1945? Any BS on that issue, Pretzel?
> He said the issue regarding the Jews was downplayed,
It was. If you look at statements which were made by leading officials and major news outlets, you will find that only a small percentage of war propaganda was focused on whatever was happening with Jews. There were Jewish groups who tried to advocate for their own viewpoint, naturally. But the more prominent statements issued through major outlets and by top leaders kept themselves restricted to a very perfunctory treatment of the Jewish issue.
Arthur Butz also readily acknowledged that much of Allied propaganda was directed elsewhere than at Jews:
https://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/7.html
—–
It is out of the question to survey all of the atrocity and extermination propaganda pertaining to the European theater in World War II. Here we may economize on the magnitude of the survey to be undertaken by noting that we are interested only in the Jewish extermination question and only in what important people were doing. We will therefore find that examination of stories concerning alleged Jewish extermination that appeared in the New York Times, spring 1942 through 1943, together with a summary of 1944 propaganda, which will be presented in Chapter 5, is all that is required to get a satisfactory conception of the propaganda. Therefore, we start here with spring 1942 stories.
…
Survey Graphic for April 1943 carries a two page article by William L. Shirer. The subject is the whole range of alleged German atrocities and thus Auschwitz (Oświęcim) is mentioned, but only in connection with an alleged high death rate of 250 Poles per day, due to “executions, inhuman treatment, hunger, and epidemics.” Shirer claims exterminations of Jews at Belzec
—–
So, Shirer talks about Poles dying at Auschwitz. Now, obviously, if you do want to go looking for statements about Jews in these old media reports, then you can find them without too much trouble. But it still stands that this was not what was emphasized to the public at large.
> How did they arrive to the figure of 4 million murdered?
It was just a number invented for propaganda. It had nothing to do with Western publications.
> I wonder why/how the Cold War started so soon after 1945?
Some places to start if you ever do take an actual interest in the beginnings of the Cold War:
Frank Costigliola, Roosevelt’s Lost Alliances
Curt Cardwell, NSC 68 and the Political Economy of the Early Cold War
Frank Kofsky, Harry S. Truman and the War Scare of 1948
The Cold War would have been largely avoided if Hitler had not been bent on his aims of driving to the east to conquer living space. Europe could have settled into a cool peace for 20 years, with the Third Reich and the Soviet Union eyeing each other suspiciously while Poland and Czechoslovakia acted as intermediaries between the two great powers. Then, in the 1950s, Hitler and Stalin would probably have both passed away from declining health and the new government under Khrushchev would have detente with a post-Hitler Germany. But after Hitler’s attempt to conquer eastern Europe and subsequent defeat, there was a new vacuum in Europe which increased the likelihood of Cold War between East and West. Perhaps if Roosevelt had lived out his fourth term, the Cold War might have been minimized.
Pretzel, What is your point? That we can always find Jewish people/groups kvetching about Jewish peril? Finally, Pretzel, something you suggest is actually true. Their kvetching is never-ending.
You claimed – Allied propaganda on all sides….tended to downplay any special focus on Jews. No one was interested in playing up to Hitler’s charges that the war was being fought for Jews – and I searched random archival mainstream/non-jewish records and found a voluminous amount of propaganda doing exactly what you claimed was not done.
Get off of Bolshevik Wikipedia.
Probably IDF unit 8200. They have nothing but time to spout diatribe.
Elie Wiesel quote:
In [my] book “One Generation After” there is a sentence which perhaps explains my idea: “Certain events happen, but they are not true. Others, on the other hand, are, but they never happen.” So! I undergo certain events and, starting from my experience, I describe incidents which may or may not have happened, but which are true. I do believe that it is very important that there be witnesses always and everywhere.
I’d recommend Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin: America’s Ambassadors to Moscow by Dennis J. Dunn. It’s a highly underrated book which rightly emphasizes the expansionist nature of the Marxist-Leninist state and FDR’s appeasement folly. It’s a good counterbalance to all the Soviet propaganda you promote.
You write: “No one thinks much of Holocaust deniers in 2023. All deniers like John Wear can say is : ” There were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz”. Don’t you find that response a little lame Ron?”
My response: I actually have more to say than that there were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
I have recently written nine articles concerning the Matt Cockerill versus Thomas Dalton Holocaust debate. Five of these articles have already been posted on Inconvenient History, while all nine are currently posted on my website at wearswar.com. If you have an interest, please read them and get back to me if you have any questions or comments.
Time, April 1935
“I only hope the French realize how much Germany would prefer the outstretched hand of friendship to the clenched fist!” cried General Goring, Premier of Prussia etc., etc. “Germany has no need to occupy Danzig by force, because natural laws impose themselves. . . . We are ready to cooperate for a world peace which respects Germany’s honor and freedom….
Leon Trotsky, Hitler’s Program
On May 17 Hitler replied to Roosevelt and the powers in his peace speech to the Reichstag…..Hitler’s speech in the Reichstag staggered everybody with its unexpected pacifism…The idea proclaimed by Hitter of the necessity of re-adapting the state frontiers of Europe to the frontiers of its races is one of those reactionary utopias with which the National-Socialist program is stuffed…Hitler speaks exclusively in defensive terms […] The declaration of May 17th contains a clear indication on the other, the positive, side of the Nazi program: the struggle against Bolshevism […] (October 1932) Open Letter of Hitler to Papen – “It is absurd to think”, Hitler explained to Papen, “that the power which disarmed us, will today seriously also disarm itself without being forced to do so.”
SLBFDR, Fireside Chats:
We know that Germany and Japan are conducting their military and naval operations with a joint plan. Germany and Italy consider themselves at war with the United States without even bothering about a formal declaration….Your government knows Germany has been telling Japan that if Japan would attack the United States Japan would share the spoils when peace came. She was promised by Germany that if she came in she would receive control of the whole Pacific area….and also a stranglehold on the west coast of North and Central and South America.
[…] On the other side of the picture, we must learn also to know that guerilla warfare against the Germans in, let us say Serbia or Norway, helps us; that a successful Russian offensive against the Germans helps us… Remember always that Germany and Italy, regardless of any formal declaration of war, consider themselves at war with the United States….And Germany puts all the other Republics of the Americas into the same category of enemies. We Americans are not destroyers—we are builders.
The Fuhrer:
We need no hoorah patriotism. All of us know how terrible war is. Not one of us is worth more then the men and women who lived in the past. We thought that maybe in the last minute, an appeal to the good sense of the peoples, could bring the war to an end with no further bloodletting. In these circumstances, I considered that I owed it to our German people, and the countless men and women in the opposite camps, who as individuals were innocent of blame, to make yet another appeal to common sense, and the conscious of their statesmen. On October 6, 1939, I therefore, once more publicly stated that Germany has neither demanded, nor intended to demand anything, neither from Britain, nor from France. That it was madness to continue the war, and above all, that the scourge of modern weapons of war, once brought into action, would inevitably ravage vast territories. I warned them of the effects of heavy and long range artillery against civilian settlements, which would only lead to the destruction of wide stretches of land on both sides. I warned them of the Air Force, which would bring about destruction of Europe, with its long reach to all which has been built up by centuries of hard work. They declared the peace could not come about until the German Reich was destroyed and its destitute people would be queuing in front of kitchens of their enemies, begging for food. I did not want this, immediately after the first confrontation, I extended my hand again. I myself was a soldier, and I know what it costs to gain victory. How much blood, misery, despair, deprivation, and sacrifice it takes. However, my hand was rejected even more discourteously. And since then you have seen how every single peace proposal was presented by the warmonger Churchill and his followers to the worried people that this was a sign of German weakness – that it was proof that we could not fight any longer and were near capitulation. Therefore, I gave up trying this way again. I came to the conviction that we must fight for a clear outcome. Eine Entscheidung mit Auswirkungen auf die Weltgeschichte der nachsten 100 Jahre. – A decision with an impact on world history for the next 100 years.
Das Ende.
“A curse should rest on me, because I love this war. I know it’s smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment, and yet I can’t help it. I enjoy every second of it.”
Winston Churchill, Feb 22 1915
You should be ashamed of yourself, Bolshevik Pretzel. And, I left out SLBFDR’s nonsense over that Secret Map, since you and I have already circled about it endlessly.
Sure, I don’t doubt that there were all sorts of wild rumors and beliefs among Jews during the 1950s.
As I’d mentioned in a previous comment, there are apparently declassified British government files in which the British propagandists discussed how they had invented totally fictional stories about Nazi gas chambers and bombarded Europe with these, hoping to cause trouble for the Germans. So surely many of these Jews living there heard those stories and believed them. That was probably one of the origins of the Holocaust narrative, which continued on after the end of the war.
But what I asked you for was something different. Everyone agrees that the Holocaust was probably the greatest crime ever committed in the history of the world. So surely you can find numerous leading mainstream journalists and historians heavily discussing it throughout the 1950s, just a decade after it had happened. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any such examples, but I’m sure you can.
On the other side, you might want to take a look at this very long “Holocaust Denial” video documentary that someone put together a dozen or so years ago. I think it was originally up on Youtube, but it’s still available on Bitchute. I watched most of it five or six years ago and it seems quite persuasive to me:
Video Link
Have you seen the files? Source? If not you who have seen the files?
Yeah. Agreed. The Frannie presentation was not at all like her earlier original stuff…like before this latest genocidal outrage. The Talmudists are in defensive mode now as the whole world is catching on to the level of evil of deliberately murdering innocents…and hospitals…and medical workers…even attacking UN facilities…churches, like pissing off the Pope.
Seems like there’s no end to the outrage. They have shot themselves in the foot and have a grabbed a tiger by the tail while not knowing how the hell to get off the merry-go-round of death and destruction.
They are exposed…naked to the opinions of the whole world…even here in the $tates, where they own the fukkin government and mass media. People are catching on. In the Arab and other Muslim lands, the temperatures are edging on boiling over.
David Cole says the very best Holocaust book ever written is the 1953 book The Final Solution by Gerald Reitlinger. Have you read this one?
https://archive.org/details/finalsolution0000gera/page/n3/mode/2up
The most plausible explanation I have come across for the comparatively low profile of and relative lack of discussion about the Holocaust in the immediate postwar years is a combination of shame and fear.
It has to be not just horrifying but also humiliating to have been the singled-out target and victim of a serious and significantly successful extermination campaign. Despite scattered resistance and revolt attempts, the sheer staggering scale of the atrocity clearly shows that the Jews were overall (at least at first) massively naively blind to their mortal danger and (throughout) essentially helpless, unable to save themselves from being massacred on an industrial scale. Practical intelligence and combat prowess are two of the things most often bragged about, and their claimed or real absence are two of the most common insults. You would avoid talking about a Holocaust of your own people for the same reason that Americans like to allude to the Moon landing and Frenchmen like to talk about Napoleon. So that’s the shame.
And now the fear. There had to be fear that everyone talking about it would not only, once again, set Jews apart and alone, but also give rise to suspicion that such a ferocious attack on them had to have had some reason, some terrible wrong they had done, or something deeply bad about themselves, so that they in some way, at least to some extent, deserved it or had brought it on themselves. Talk could plant seeds that otherwise wouldn’t have been planted, start and spread notions that otherwise would never have occurred to the Gentiles in what had heretofore been the comparative safe haven and oasis of America.
Apparently? what documents are you referring to, I have never seen or heard of them? There was much written about the the Germans and the war and the attempted extermination of the Jews. which was followed by a long spell of Holocaust denial, which was then followed by a concerted effort of historians, scientist, researchers and technical people who poured over the bulk of the H denial, and revisionism, and debunked most of the revisionist claims. Historians all the denier and revisionist claims to be a form of pseudoscience, and fake both scientifically and historically. You can find that on your own. Pseudo science and pseudo history, where you employ analytical and academic skills to prove a point, and then manipulating the data making it appear as scientific fact when it is actually not.. Moving decimal points to the left and right is how revisionist did it with the scientific stuff.
Whenever I see videos designed to show that the murder of the Jews could not have been plausible to do ….. whatever I am reminded of the Bumble Bee story.
You can prove using mathematics, and physics on paper that it is impossible for a bumble bee to fly, yet then you see them buzzing around pollinating from flower to flower. Knowing that on paper their flight is impossible. All science works like that, things are impossible until they are not.
The first book I ever read on the Germany and WW2 including the German plan to eradicate the Jews was the book:
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany Paperback – October 11, 2011
by William L. Shirer (Author), Ron Rosenbaum (Introduction)
First published in 1960, which I am sure was researched for several years prior to publication, taking you to the mid 1950’s Does that count for your request for documentation after the 1st 10 years of what you call silence on the deliberate murder of the Jews, during the war.
If you want to really take measure on whether the German’s really did plan and execute the extermination of the entirety of European Jewry, you Rod should take a quick study of what happened to the Hungarian Jews in the summer of 1944. That short 1944 summer window, pretty much explains the entire process of Jewish extermination (ie the Holocaust) The book The destruction of Hungarian Jewry is new book. There are a few books on it.
The Holocaust in Hungary: Evolution of a Genocide (Documenting Life and Destruction: Holocaust Sources in Context) First Edition
by Zoltán Vági (Author), László Csosz (Author), Gábor Kádár (Author)In
In Brief:
The Germans invaded Hungary in 1944 to avoid Hungary making a separate peace with the Allies. The war was coming to an end and Germany and it was known that Germany was going to lose.
Upon entering Budapest, Eichmann in 8 short weeks ordered the round up and ghettoization of all the Hungarian Jews, in all of the outer villages to ghettoes in Budapest, which was the Standard Operation Procedure for Jews under German occupation. The Hungarian Jews having heard what happened to the Polish Jews, the camps and shooting squads, the death and destruction of the Polish Jews, thought they had escaped the worst of the war on the Jews.
Eichmann instead of focusing what little resources the Germans had left towards supporting the front lines, and aiding in the war effort, instead focused (obsessively ) all of his efforts towards murdering all the Jews he could up until the very last moment of the war. Eichmann (said at his trial ) that he thought it was his duty to rid Germany and the world of the Jews. He would gladly end his life in pursuit of that goal. Himmler and others warned him to stop and Hungary did stop when the allies threaten war crimes against Hungarian officers if the transports didi not stop. In October they finally stoped after 350,000 Jews died in a few short months.
Eichmann wasted the last of Germany’s precious depleting resources (especially fuel) to achieve his goal. Both Hungarians and Germans that worked under Eichmann were shocked at the speed and logistics he harnessed to achieve the murder of as many Jews as possible before the end of the war. In the summer of 1944 475,000 Jews were transported to Auschwitz, 350,000 were murdered they day that they arrived at the train station, before Hungary orders the transports to stop by world pressure, especially the pope.
In preparation for transporting the Jews Eichmann ordered longer train ramps accommodate the larger transports, he ordered faster more powerful ovens, and created a moment by moment transportation meeting places and complex train schedules. There was a train apace and meeting location for every Hungarian Jew. If you did not show up they hunted you down. Eichmann ran around Budapest like a mad man. making sure all of the Jews were boarding their trans. This observation was reported by the local Hungarian population, who said it was like living in a horror zombie movie. Everyone in Europe and the world knew what was happening to the Jews. Eichmann offered to trade armaments for Jews. Things got crazy.
It was reported officially that only employable Jews were transported to Auschwitz to help Speer in his armaments factories. Germany was desperately armaments.
After the fall of the Soviet Empire, and the discovery of a photo album, in 1988 it was discovered that not only non employable Jews were shipped to Auschwitiz-Birekenau, the transports included women, babies, the elderly and disabled. Eichmann professed that it was his duty, to rid the world of the Jews, the enemies of Germany. The sadism and cruelty of the selection process at Auschwitz on the train platform, of which Jews were to live and which were to die was mind boggling a mother’s baby would be handed to a grandmother, and both the grandmother and the baby were sent to die. Story after story is told of this selection process.
What is so hard for you to understand Ron about the simplicity of what happened to the Hungarian Jews in 1944. It Is said that if Eichamnn had spent more time towards helping the front lines and less time murdering Jews the war might have come out different. This can be said for the entire German effort. If you read Hitelr’s Mein Kamff, it is pretty clear what Hitler’s obsession was, it was the Jews.
The Jews could have easily waited out the war in their ghettos in Hungary. The labor camp systems were falling an apart, there was not enough room to board, feed or house any of the Jews being transported that summer. There was not enough provisions to keep the people already at Auschwitz alive.
The 350,000 Jews were never seen again anywhere, and no revisionist historian can explain where they went to, only that their were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz and that Auschwitz was a transit hub not a death camp. Where do you think they were transporting those disabled old Jews the grandmothers and the babies in 1944, certainly not further into Germany. Can you imagine being a Holocaust revisionist in 1988 and discovering the new documents and photo album of the old and sick Jews hanging out at crematorium 4 and trying to explain what and why were they hanging out at a crematorium of they were not being murdered, and incinerated. It is pretty hardening to look at those photos.
Hopefully this photo album will suffice and satisfy your need for information that was never discussed in the 1950’s because the Jews would have had to travel back in time to create those photographs to go along with the stories that they were fabricating in the 1960’s that accurately describes what was in the photos from the future. Do you see how implausible the idea of fabricating what was already documented?
https://mchekc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/AuschwitzAlbum-1.pdf
Exactly. As is 1.1 million; as is 6 million; as are homicidal gas chambers; as are 3-4 bodies stuffed in one muffle and then incinerated to ash in 30-40 minutes; as is The Holocaust.
Why was he silent on the Holocaust? “I was afraid of language,” Wiesel remarked. He needed to be sure he was using the right words. He described this groping, aching search for language in his preface to the 2006 translation of Night…
[…] I knew that I must bear witness…I did not have the words to say them. Painfully aware of my limitations, I watched helplessly as language became an obstacle. It became clear that it would be necessary to invent a new language….
Spark Notes, 2023
NOTE: Although Night is not necessarily a memoir, this SparkNotes guide often refers to it as one, since the work’s mixture of testimony, deposition, and emotional truth-telling renders it similar to works in the memoir genre. It is clear that Eliezer is meant to serve, to a great extent, as author Elie Wiesel’s stand-in and representative. Minor details have been altered, but what happens to Eliezer is what happened to Wiesel himself during the Holocaust. It is important to remember, however, that there is a difference between the persona of narrator of Night, Eliezer, and that of its author, Elie Wiesel.
Wikipedia, 2023
Night is a 1960 memoir by Elie Wiesel based on his Holocaust experiences ….
Yes, Pretzel, just like if Finland had just told the Soviets – just come on over and just take whatever you need – our Isthmus/gateway to Finland? Help yourself….
How about if SLBFDR had not been bent on funding the Bolsheviks/communists and lying to get America into the war? Europe might still be Europe today, and Muslims wouldn’t be urinating in the pork section of a meat market in The Netherlands, and Africans wouldn’t be raping their way across France and Germany, and Palestine/Israel wouldn’t be the Mecca for Jewish criminality and home base for The World to Come.
Mein Kampf, Chapter 2
[…] First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid….The Jew….rattled off his same old nonsense…
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.
[…] Yet one fact seemed conspicuous: there was not one paper with Jews working on it which could have been regarded as truly national….
I swallowed my disgust and tried to read this type of Marxist press production, but my revulsion became so unlimited in so doing that I endeavored to become more closely acquainted with the men who manufactured these compendiums of knavery.
From the publisher down, they were all Jews.
The end.
It reads as if it was written yesterday because what he wrote was true, and is still true today.
I think you might add puzzlement, a clumsy sounding word that I would hesitate to use in speech but turns out to be capable of apt definition, to wit
I think it would be slightly different in each country but I can see in most reason for reluctance to dwcide how to describe what happened and why.
Perhaps it will take some time for Unz to locate those sources. In the meantime, perhaps you and others would be interested in the following article from 2007 which seems to be very ‘mainstream’ and not include any of the alleged revelations Unz mentions.
The representation of the Holocaust in the British propaganda campaign directed at the German public, 1938-1945
https://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/29538
People with enough interest might want to pay for it or (gasp) check if it is available on Sci-Hub.
You’re sick. And self pityingly pathetic. A self proclaimed “sevond class citizen”!!!
“apparently” and you haven’t had an elementary search done to verify this!
How can you expect anyone to give credit to UR as a source authority for anything?
What you might well find is some ignorant mid level propagandists boasting about what they had made of third hand stories picked up in a pub that they didn’t believe to be true (or false) but enjoyed the idea of the trouble it could cause.
Nah, it’s just Franny and her rabbi and a few of her knitting circle mates. They sit round doing knit one pearl one and “Did you see that jew-hating comment that emerging majority wrote about me? I’d like to give him a piece of my mind but I don’t know where to start!”, “Well, whatever you write, remember to mention the photo album and the poor Hungarian jews, that’s solid proof, that is.” Etc.
> You claimed
And quite correctly. Any thorough investigation of the whole range of Allied propaganda will show that talk about Jews was deemphasized by all of the main actors. Rabbi Stephen Wise was not a leading representative of the Allied governments. People like were on the sidelines in comparison with the message that put out to general audiences.
Let’s not forget how this little tangent started here. The claim was made that:
> the Holocaust had been a mainstay of British wartime propaganda
From this it was implied that British authorities should have been very eager after to sponsor academic studies of what was happening with Jews. Truthfully, if you look at the propaganda statements made by someone like Winston Churchill, there isn’t much prominence given to Jewish matters. Churchill in his speeches focused much more on allegations that Hitler was threatening the British way of life. Hence, it is not surprising that after the war he shifted his focus to speeches about the Iron Curtain and the Cold War. There’s nothing about wartime record which should make you think that he would have wanted to talk a lot about Jews after the war was done.
You write: “The 350,000 Jews were never seen again anywhere, and no revisionist historian can explain where they went to, only that their were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz and that Auschwitz was a transit hub not a death camp.”
My response: We discussed this issue in the Holocaust debate led by Mark Bahner.
Carlo Mattogno’s book “Dr. Miklos Nyiszli: An Auschwitz Doctor’s Eyewitness Account” lists the names of many Hungarian Jewish children who were still at Auschwitz when the Soviets liberated the camp on January 27, 1945. Pages 396-407 of this book also list the names of twins who were at Auschwitz when the Soviets liberated the camp, although this list does not specify the country of origin of the twins. The link to this book is at https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/37-aadea.pdf.
A quick scan of the internet shows other Jews who were transported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau and survived the war. For example, at https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/auschwitz-survivors-70-years-laters/5/, we see some young Jewish children who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. One of these is Susan Pollock, who was transported from her home in Hungary to Auschwitz, and was later liberated by British forces at Belsen.
Josef Perl was a young Jew who survived the camps of Auschwitz, Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Gross-Rosen, Balkenhain, Hirschberg and Buchenwald after the Hungarians took over control of his town in 1938 after Germany signed a peace treaty with Hungary. The Hungarians took over the administration of the area in which Perl lived, under German orders.
We also have the case of Zofia Wareluk, who was born in Auschwitz two weeks before the camp was liberated. Her mother was sent to Auschwitz when she was four months pregnant.
Nicholas (Miklós) Hammer is a Hungarian Jew who survived Birkenau. (See https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/nicholas-hammer-37370.html).
The Ovitz family was a family of Hungarian Jewish actors/traveling musicians originating from present Romania, who survived imprisonment at the Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovitz_family).
Irene Fogel Weiss stated: “So in the spring of 1944 my family – my parents and their six children, the oldest of whom was 17 and I was 13 – found ourselves in the Munkács ghetto and from there being taken on cattle carts to Auschwitz in Nazi-occupied Poland.” (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/tales-from-auschwitz-survivor-stories).
Gisella Perl is another Hungarian Jew who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisella_Perl).
Lily Ebert, a 98 year old Hungarian Jew, also survived Auschwitz-Birkenau (See https://www.newsweek.com/auschwitz-holocaust-survivor-celebrate-98-birthday-nazi-jews-concentration-camp-1664053).
Edith Eger was another Hungarian Jew who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. (See https://www.history.com/news/auschwitz-holocaust-survivors-stories).
If you care to, you can also watch the film “The Last Days,” the winner of the 1999 Academy Award for best documentary feature. James Moll’s film, a profile of survival against all odds, is presented by Steven Spielberg and the USC Shoah Foundation. It traces the lives of a handful of Hungarian Jews who survived the “Holocaust”. (See https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-last-days-hungary-and-the-holocaust/).
Among the survivors in this film are Irene Zisblatt of Polena, Renee Firestone of Ungvar, Alice Lok Cahana of Sarvar, Bill Basch of Szaszovo, and Tom Lantos of Budapest. Interestingly, Lantos went on to become the first and only “Holocaust” survivor to be elected to the U.S. Congress.
Germar Rudolf writes on page 304 in the 4th edition of his book “Lectures on the Holocaust”:
“Since late June 1944, large transports of Jews arrived at Stutthof. They came mainly either from the Baltic countries or from the Auschwitz Camp. The first set was the result of the Red Army advancing into these countries, leading to the evacuation of all sorts of camps in that area, while the second set consisted of Jews from Hungary and the Lodz Ghetto, for whom Auschwitz had only been a transit camp.”
Rudolf continues:
“If we follow the orthodox narrative, the vast majority of the Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz since May 1944, as well as the Jews deported to Auschwitz from the Lodz Ghetto in August 1944, are said to have been murdered on arrival without having been registered. The data about the Stutthof Camp prove, however, that at least some of these unregistered Jews (23,566, to be precise) were not murdered on arrival but were transferred to other camps as forced laborers.”
Even some Jewish historians say that Hungarian Jews survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. For example, Robert Abzug writes:
“As with the other camps, conditions at Mauthausen began to get even worse after 1943 with the movement of prisoners west from Poland. Mauthausen, because of the geographical proximity of Hungary, was particularly affected by the late but efficient roundup of the country’s Jews. Especially after the evacuation of Auschwitz in December 1944, the Nazis sent thousands of Hungarian Jews to Mauthausen and its sub-camps.” (Source: Abzug, Robert H., Inside the Vicious Heart, New York: Oxford University Press, 1985, p. 107).
There is more that I could write. Hopefully, this is enough to show you that large numbers of Hungarian Jews survived their internment at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Well, as I mentioned, Reitlinger was a Jewish art historian who became intensely focused upon the supposed Holocaust, and I think his only distinction is that he was one of the very first authors to write a book about it in 1952, though few people paid much attention. Around the same time, Paul Rassinier, a Communist who’d actually been in some of the Nazi concentration camps, published the first Holocaust Denial book, and nobody paid much attention either. I think some Jewish fellow whose name I forget also published a short Holocaust Denial book around then. The classic text that everyone mentions is Raul Hilberg’s huge 1961 volume, which launched the whole movement. I extensively discussed Hilberg’s work and more than a dozen other Holocaust books in my long original 2018 article:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
As for Cole, as far as I know he’s a high school dropout, who got involved in Holocaust denialism, probably as some sort of a media gimmick, but later faked his own death and changed his name, then resurfaced many years later. I don’t think he has any sort of scholarly background, so I’m not sure why I should care about his opinion on the Reitlinger book, since very few people ever cite it for anything.
That’s a very silly argument. As I’ve repeatedly emphasized, the WWII memoirs/histories of Churchill, Eisenhower, and De Gaulle run more than 7,000 pages, and no one carefully reading them would ever suspect that the Holocaust had occurred. Were Churchill, Eisenhower, and De Gaulle all ashamed of their roles in WWII? Those volumes were published from 1948-1959.
The obvious explanation is that they were writing books meant to permanently enshrine their enormous place in history, and all of them were convinced that within five or ten years, twenty at the most, the Holocaust hoax would have been completely debunked and recognized as ridiculous.
So if they mentioned it in their books, they believed they would be endlessly ridiculed by future generations, and they wanted to avoid that fate.
I’ve never looked into it, but I assume that all the prominent Allied leaders who published books after WWI were very careful never to include any claims that the Germans raped Belgian nuns or ate Belgian children.
Ukrainian, Polish and Lithuanian emigrants of Turkish, Persian and Italo-Roman origin arrived (1917-) behind the British Empire and unleashed Terror on the Arab-Hebrew population by stealing their homes and lands and doing what the Romans did not do: expel them.
The curious thing is that these violent emigrants are deeply anti-Semitic as they would like “the land of Canaan” to be an island somewhere between Denmark and Norway. And they despise the people and the land of an Arab king who built the Temple: Herod the Great.
Let us not forget that “Yahweh” is an Arab divinity, and “Hebrews” is the name used by palace scribes for some Arab tribes.
The Cold War developed after Roosevelt had passed away. It was largely the result of the fact that conservatives like Robert Taft made the Truman administration feel like they could only sell aid to western Europe on Cold War grounds. After the war ended in 1945, Truman officials came to conclude that they would need a massive economic bailout of western Europe, and this would have to be part of a prolonged effort aimed at the integration of western Europe so that there would be no future Franco-German wars. One item which I did not mention that is worth adding to the list if John Gimbel, The Origins of the Marshall Plan. Simply put, Gimbel concludes that the Marshall Plan was intended to alleviate Franco-German tensions. It was not motivated by a fear of an imminent Soviet threat to western Europe.
Frank Kofsky, Harry S. Truman and the War Scare of 1948, goes over a lot of old intelligence reports coming into Truman officials during 1947-8 which repeatedly stated that no likely Soviet offensive was foreseen. Yet during the same time, Truman officials were publicly invoking the specter of an imminent Soviet invasion of western Europe. They did this because the type of policy which they wished to sell the public on (prolonged aid and bailout for western Europe) could not be sold to conservatives except under the assumption that it was needed to forestall an imminent Soviet attack. In the process, a Cold War was created that should have been avoidable.
I was busy with a few other things, but fortunately I found the references in the first place I looked, Nick Kollerstrom’s 2014 Breaking the Spell. Kollerstrom is a historian of science and his book was one of the best recent Holocaust Denial books, which I discussed extensively in my big 2018 article:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
Unfortunately, the Kollerstrom book was included in Amazon’s big purge five or six years ago, but although it’s quite short, I’d greatly recommend it. I’m not exactly sure where you can still buy it, but a copy is up on Archive.org. Here’s a descriptive summary:
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=31
The material was pretty much what I remembered. On pp. 102-103, Dr. Kollerstrom writes:
In addition, he cites the 2002 opus by Robert Jan van Pelt, a leading mainstream Holocaust scholar, who found this August 28th, 1943 statement in the British archives:
Just as I said, the British propagandists bombarded Europe with what they privately acknowledged were ridiculous lies about Nazi gas chambers. But by an absolutely astonishing coincidence, the Nazis suddenly decided to actually implement exactly those same policies.
Well, I doubt whether I’ve spent even 2% of my time on the Holocaust and I’d recalled those facts from five or six years ago. But fortunately I had a very easy time digging them up and quoting them in a comment.
And since you like videos so much, you really should watch the one I embedded upthread, which is extremely comprehensive and persuasive if lacking expensively polished production values.
> Time, April 1935
What on earth does a press commentary from 1935 have to do with the form that wartime propaganda took?
> SLBFDR, Fireside Chats
No mention of Jews there. Is that supposed to contradict what I had said about how the main lines of official war propaganda did not really emphasize Jews? It doesn’t.
> there are apparently declassified British government files in which the British propagandists discussed how they had invented totally fictional stories about Nazi gas chambers and bombarded Europe with these, hoping to cause trouble for the Germans.
That seems doubtful. You’re welcome to go looking for a reference, but this really doesn’t match with any well-known document. The closest thing I can think that just slightly smells of what you’re claiming is a letter from the British Ministry of Information to the BBC, dated February 14, 1944, which contains not a single word about “gas chambers” but simply warns that Red Army troops are likely to commit depredations among the populace as they advance into central Europe, and urges that the BBS should “distract public attention” by supporting “various charges” which would be made against the Axis powers. The text of this letter can be found in Edward Rozek, Allied Wartime Diplomacy, pp. 209-10. While the latter document has some interest in itself, it falls far short of what you are saying.
> Exactly. As is 1.1 million;
Whatever the element of doubt which one may wish to cast on the 1.1 million number, this is distinctly different from Soviet propaganda. The four million number was presented on a plaque within the Warsaw Pact and was therefore never a part of Western academic cannon. That is exactly what you have repeatedly tried to obscure. Now just because Western academics have favored a number doesn’t mean that it should be viewed as correct. But the four million claim, made on the plaque, is simply irrelevant.
Even granting for the sake of argument that the Holocaust is a hoax, my argument, while “misleading” given its “false” premise, is at worst plausible and logical.
But (and acknowledging my own bias in evaluating my own posts) not “silly”, and certainly not “very silly.”
As for your own hypothesis re the memoirs of leading statesmen, I’ll come back to that later.
You keep framing Soviet takeover as an imminent military attack, rather than a deceptive takeover of the political system by parties subordinate to Soviet interests. Of course, Stalin was not an idiot. After the war, he had said that the time was not ripe for military intervention and that the communist parties would have to first gain ground and build up their base in each country. If they could gain enough support, then Red Army intervention was a possibility, but every situation was unique. Future wars between capitalist states were always imminent and anticipated in the Marxist-Leninist worldview. But in the meantime, it was very important to make any Soviet-approved takeover appear “organic” rather than a CPSU operation. That was the situation in Czechoslovakia. Greece and Iran both had Soviet backed communist parties on the path to taking power, but British interest in those countries, among other reasons, was too strong for the Red Army to intervene without a big risk. The Soviet Union tried to takeover the Austrian political system, but they were too hated to gain a strong influence there. The next best option then was “neutrality”, which would at least remove American troops, but first the Warsaw pact had to be locked up. The German reunification propaganda was a publicity stunt which worked fairly well. The Cold War was imminent because the Soviet Union was eternally at war with the West and “capitalism”. Conversely, America was on a mission to ‘Americanize’ the world. The only alternative to overt antagonism would be for one side to kowtow to the other, which was the FDR position.
As a pre-teen I read the book “Gegen Willen auf Weiter Fahrt.
This book was a first-hand account of a German soldier who fought in Belgium to march into France which had declared war on Germany, again for the 41st time.
The author’s commentary regarding the Belgian campaign was that Belgians used lead bullets that tore terrible woulds, and was against a Geneva (or other) agreement.
Combatants caught with such ammunition were not treated in accordance with international agreements.
Yes I heard all excuses why “innocent” and “neutral” Belgium was invaded by the nasty Germans for no reasons at all…
As a phenomenon I’d just take the Holocaust as a given. The irony is that it contradicts Stalin’s dictum that “one man’s death is a tragedy 6000000 is a statistic.” And exposes out current condition as fallen.
Let’s just say it happened…So what we are left with is the question that most western people would have asked before 1939.
“What would Jesus (or if exotic Moses, Buddha, Confucius) have thought or done in response?”
The self examination now required post 1945 is comically pathetic…
“Let me and you do the opposite of that evil guy, Hitler!”
That’s the tragic reality of our world today.
So the gas chamber story was too good to pass up for the British government, and they endorsed it. The story really blew up more than they ever could’ve imagined.
It must’ve been like a Monty Python sketch or the movie In the Loop behind the scenes once the British cabinet realized they had spread that monstrous lie about Germany. They must’ve agreed to not talk about it publicly once the war ended. Nobody came out and repudiated it, though, so it didn’t die, it just went dormant.
Yes, it was a broad stroke, However – the mainstream narrative, and what you often claim, is that Hitler/Nazis were warmongers who had no justification for expansion in the East, such as the recovery of lost resources/citizens, which did include sweeping the territories of belligerent/partisan/Bolshevik Jews, and according to you, said expansion was for no other purpose than to rule Europe by force, and/or acquire Lebensraum for Germany, and for which said acquisition of space is only permissible for the English, French, Soviets and Zionists, which is a rather curious turn of policy denied to Germany, and about which the Fuhrer did remark on more than once. The Time article was an example of the conciliatory statements often made by the Germans prior to war, which are often overlooked or are largely unknown.
But also, Pretzel, if you read just the text in the box, I highlighted – If you look at statements which were made by leading officials and major news outlets – and that was my primary focus, as I had already moved on from your Ridiculous assertion that the peril of the Jews! had been downplayed by mainstream media. I was therefore providing you with statements made by leading officials……
Nothing gets past you, Pretzel…yes, no mention of Jews, but nothing but lies, lies, and more lies! And I know you just loved the nod to guerilla warfare by the leader of the free world; didn’t the free world agree to attempt to refrain from that sort of combat?
I previously contradicted your Ridiculous claim by posting four random articles, out of thousands, indicating you were wrong. How many more would you like to see? You let me know, Pretzel, and I’ll send some more.
I was writing specifically on your exact words in the box, out of context; I don’t like to pass up an opportunity to juxtapose the words of the Germans with the verbal assaults/insults to history/reality made by the Leading Officials of America/Great Britain.
If you want proof beyond doubt that the Germans planed and executed the mass murder of European Jewry, just read the Holocaust denial posts on UR. especially Ron’s statement. Ron knows of secret documents that prove that a British intel agency spread a lie that the Jews were gassed and cremated in ovens and everyone believed it, and it made the Germans look awful. A success. The Jews took the story and ran with it. No matter about where this info is or who started it because it is not important because the Jews would have made the stories up anyway, because that is what Jews do. The Jews look for big stories to blackmail the world into submission. The more unbelievable and fantastic the propaganda and lies the better.
Holocaust deniers like Kollerstrom are not biased and so believable unlike the Jews who need a lot of big drama to present to the world.
Hey Ron why not cut to the chase scene and ask Norman Finkelstein what happened to his parent’s family?
Be a whole lot easier than finding some vague whatever statement in a British archive, without attribution as quoted by a leading H denier.
Ron Unz aka Sherlock Holmes.you have zero attributable data. Zero.
How so? Because unlike the Soviets, the Poles conducted independent research/analysis to conclusively determine that 1.1 million is/was the actual death toll? Where is that data? What was the purpose of the reconstruction of the Crema/gas chamber facility, which was not publicly proclaimed as a “model,” until they were called out for it? Who demolished those extraordinary thatched/wood shacks which were famously retrofitted into effective gas chambers? Why don’t you answer these questions, Pretzel, with something other than – I have no stake in those claims….
You can piddle with the facts/numbers/lies all you want – the 2.9 million was NOT retracted from the 6 million total.
Is the excess of 2.9 million included in the six million deaths which is/has been part of the entire western world’s cannon? Yes or no, Pretzel?
What? I don’t recall reading anywhere in the western academic cannon that the official death toll for the Holocaust was 3.1 million Jews were killed!
Yes, exactly. Mainstream Western academia is so unbelievably Judaized and corrupt, I can hardly believe it. Regarding WW2/Hitler/Germany/Jews, I view virtually nothing, or very little, they claim as correct.
Irrelevant to whom? Is it irrelevant to the 6 million dead Jews! claim Ben Shapiro/Dennis Prager sling around college campuses every year? In point of fact, Pretzel, I believe the Talmud says lying to or cheating Gentiles is just fine. Do you/they say, it’s a mitzvah!?
Since old records are my new thing, check out this information from documents in the UK government archive; make note of text in bold:
# 1) Situation in transit camps
FROM BERNE TO FOREIGN OFFICE
Mr. Norton
No. 3767
11th August, 1911
D. 8.00 p.m. 11th August, 1944.
R. 2.00 a.m. 12th August, 1944.
My telegram 3229.
The Swiss Government inform me orally that Bergen-Belsen is the Transit Camp to which all jews eligible for repatriation are temporarily sent. The Jewish camp at Westerbork in Holland is in process of being dissolved.The usual number of inmates fluctuates between 40,000 and 50,000. The present number is approximately 2,000. The Jews are evacuated from Westerbork in three directions; those eligible for repatriation fall to Bergen-Belsen; technicians and persons likely to be of use to the German war effort are sent to Theresienstadt in Czechoslovakia those who are considered useless are sent to Auschwitz for elimination.
O.T.P.
# 2) Auschwitz and Auschwitz-Birkenau
[…]
30. SS barracks, square, kennels.
a and b. concentration camp for women
c. gas chambers in a wood west of Brzezinki/Birkenau/
d. crematorium, in a wood probably west of the barracks
[a hand-drawn map of A-B is attached to the above camp description, attributed to:] – tttt
Topographical Sketch of the Concentration Camp at Oswiecim.
/Auschwitz/
Drawn according to the description of a former prisoner of the camp.
# 3) Report from Poland
EXTERMINATION OF THE JEWS IN POLAND.
According to recent reliable reports received from leaders of the underground movement in Poland, the process of extermination of the Polish Jewish population of over 3 million and of the large number of Jews deported to Poland from Germany, Austria and the occupied countries of Europe has been carried far towards its final completion.
Although at first the Germans established a number of ghettos in various Polish cities and towns, thus deluding the Jews into the belief that they would be allowed to survive in this way, they proceeded early in 1942 with the mass extermination of the Jews and it is known that the principal ghettos, those of Warsaw, Wilno, Lwow, Krakow and Lublin have now been largely liquidated. It is known that some time in April the remnants of the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, offered desperate resistance to the German military and police attempting to remove them, and that the complete destruction of the Jews in this ghetto was preceded by street and house-to-house fighting lasting several days.
The dreadful mass slaughter of the Jews in Poland is being carried out in several death camps, the largest and most notorious of which is that of TREBLINKA. The Polish Government have received a detailed description of the circumstances and methods of the mass slaughter, based on the personal accounts of several Jewish grave-diggers who succeeded in escaping from the confines of the camp and are being sheltered by the Polish underground movement.
The Slaughter Camp of TREBLINKA
“The extermination of Jews in Poland by methods of mass slaughter continues with unabated intensity. Not only Polish Jews, but those from other occupied countries of Europe, including France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Czechoslovakia, etc., are being deported to special Death Camps and murdered by the thousand without discrimination as to age or sex.
“The principal Death Camp has been established near the village of TREBIINKA situated near the main Biazystok-Warsaw Railway Line. At first, the Germans used this camp as a Penal Concentration Camp for Poles, where many thousands of them were executed: in March 1942, however, the Germans proceeded to construct a special Death Camp for the mass
The end – no date affixed to document/no author – tttt.
# 4) The Affidavit of Dr. Charles Sigismund Bendel – […] “I do not know who constructed the gas chambers, but I know they were built in 1942. They were made of reinforced concrete and were very strong. The hermetic doors were very strongly made of wood.”
So, Pretzel, no one claims there was no disinformation/propaganda circulating around/during the war. But, the above four items are contained within the official Evidence of the Holocaust.
1) Hearsay; who informed?; Why are Jews being repatriated when they’re meant to be exterminated?
2) gas chambers in a wood = little wooden houses?; the crematorium was probably where?; prisoner’s name?; hearsay.
3) Hearsay; how/why was A-B replaced as most notorious? Without a date, the claim can’t be properly evaluated; the Polish government received detailed descriptions of kill methods? Such as? No mention of gas chambers? Who were the grave diggers?
4) Hearsay; why is a medical doctor testifying on the construction of a building for which he was not a material witness? Gas chamber doors made of strong wood?
This mumbo-jumbo is largely representative of the evidence for the so-called Holocaust. Maybe I drifted off-topic again….but, I think it’s relevant.
I think that ‘puzzlement’ is a wonderful word, and quite euphonious. My dictionary has a picture of you, dear Ooze, next to its entry, and the very same definition as yours, but with ‘unrecognised’ interpolated between ‘through’ and ‘lack’.
Melanie you are rightly outraged by the mass murder of Jews, so why are you so approving of the mass murder of Gazans? You’re not a racist, are you?
Mel, the LIES, bog standard Zionazi lies, of forty beheaded babies started in Israel with one of the ultra-orthodox ‘salvage’ gangs, one beautifully described by the excellent Max Blumenthal, a good Jew, at Grayzone. Just like the LIES of ‘babies baked in ovens’, ‘babies hung from clotheslines’, ‘woman, even the dead, raped by Hamas animals’ etc, bog standard Zionazi LIES designed to incite hysteria and hatred, and justify the always intended genocide of the Gazan Amalek. When lying, Mel, try to be more believable. I would have thought that you’d be quite expert at it.
In the secondary history curriculum 1980-95 UK the Holocaust is treated as a completely separate category and didn’t feature in the Modern European History OLevel, GCSE or ALevel. The rise of Hitler certainly was covered but the war 1939-45 is considered a vortex into which students don’t look and instructors are not required to cover. Suddenly the Anschluss turns into the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift. Lol.
Looking back upon that gap of 6 years I do have to wonder if it was left out for precisely these sorts of reasons. Most of the claims by everyone are bullshit, exaggeration or lies and there’s no good evidence to work on.
Of course the main point of the secondary qualifications is to identify students who can cope with complex documents and evidences of things so they can become tax lawyers later in life. Or possibly barristers and judges if they don’t know what’s good for them.
I’ll take Nick Kollerstrom and Ron Unz. You can have Deborah Lipstadt and Pat McNally. I think there’s a clearly correct side in that matchup.
> You keep framing Soviet takeover as an imminent military attack
Cold War propaganda in the period 1947-8 did indeed rest on repeated charges of an imminent Soviet attack on western Europe that was alleged by the Truman administration. For details see Frank Kofsky, Harry S. Truman and the War Scare of 1948. The intelligence reports which Truman had received did not support this, but the claim was made because this was considered a useful way of selling the US public on policies which had other motives than simply a fear of a Soviet attack.
As I indicated already, a major concern of the Truman administration was that, if the US reverted to an isolationist stance such as in the 1920s, then western Europe would go under without any need for a Soviet invasion. As a long-term interest of the US, Truman officials decided that they needed to maintain an economic presence in western Europe that would lead to economic recovery and avoid traditional European rivalries. The claim that the USSR was about to invade western Europe was a way of selling this policy to the public.
Without the accusations made by Truman officials in the late 1940s which told the public that the USSR was planning an imminent attack on western Europe, the Cold War as we know it would never have happened. There would simply have been a division of Europe into spheres of influence of a sort which people like George Kennan and Richard Nixon would have easily accepted. But the daily worry that the 2 superpowers might go to war against each other at any moment would not have been there.
German massacres of civilians were upon charges of guerilla warfare by civilians, rather than whether or not some type of bullet was used by the Belgian armed forces. For example, the burning and sack of Louvain had nothing to do with lead bullets. It was triggered when panic over a false report of an imminent Allied offensive caused some German soldiers to engage in friendly fire with each other.
> Yes, it was a broad stroke, However – the mainstream narrative
You obviously jump into broad narratives to a point which makes anything you say meaningless. The issue which had started this specific tangent was over the claim that British propaganda had somehow emphasized the exterminationist claims of the Holocaust during wartime, and therefore we should expect that British academics would be in a rush to publish books about after the war if they thought they could. That is false.
As far as Hitler’s repeated declarations of his aims to conquer living space in the east, all of that is clearly documented from any source that is close to Hitler. He declared this aim repeatedly. The reason that arguments have been made around the alleged Holocaust is because even mainstream academics acknowledge that Hitler didn’t make any clear statements about gas chambers that can be documented. But that’s a different kind of specific issue from Hitler’s general aim of conquering eastern Europe in order to expand the Aryan living space.
> How so? Because unlike the Soviets, the Poles
No, Poland was under the Soviet bloc for 45 years after World War II. It’s not clear how much is this stupidity or dishonesty on your part, but you’re repeatedly trying to smudge the distinction between Western historians and things put together within the Soviet bloc. Gerald Reitlinger was the first notable author among English publications in the West. He claimed that between 800,000 to 900,000 had died at Auschwitz. When commenting on Reitlinger’s book in 1979, David Luck maintained that Reitlinger had:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4467046
—–
… produced what is still widely regarded as a definitive account… What can be established beyond dispute, though, is that Reitlinger ignored and misused documents to understate significantly the dimensions of many specific mass killings.
—–
— David Luck, Use and Abuse of Holocaust Documents: Reitlinger and “How Many?”, Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 41, No. 2, Spring, 1979.
So, Luck has some credits and criticisms for Reitlinger. Without wading into the veracity of Luck’s criticisms, the only point here is that someone Luck would probably have increased Reitlinger’s estimate of 800,000 to 900,000. Raul Hilberg, in the 1973 edition of The Destruction of the European Jews, p. 572, gives a claim of “one million” dead for Auschwitz.
In any event, these are the types of sources which you need to be critiquing if you wish to be challenging the version of history that has grown within the West. What some Polish plaque says is totally meaningless for the first half-century or so after World War II.
> Just as I said, the British propagandists bombarded Europe
Your own citations support the opposite conclusion. What you’ve cited there is the charge that Poles and Jews were making such charges, but that the British were cautiously restrained. There’s no evidence in your own references that British propaganda ever came close to “bombarding Europe” with the stories about gas chambers. It was the Poles and Jews who were trying to spread that story, and the British kept a distance from it. Instead of giving quotes where British sources express skepticism of the claim, try providing some actual publications by purely British sources which actually promote the gas chamber story. Poles who have some general contacts with British intelligence do not count.
I think you’re confused or more likely disingenuous…
Upthread, you’d challenged me to find any British documentary references regarding their promotion of knowingly-false gas chamber propaganda-hoaxes and I did exactly that.
In those declassified documents, the British propagandists mention that Polish activists had made probably false claims about Poles being killed in gas chambers and Jewish activists had done the same thing. But neither the Poles nor the Jews controlled any large-scale means of broadcasting their stories across Europe, so all they could do was to spread a few small rumors here and there.
Meanwhile, the British controlled an enormous wartime propaganda apparatus, including powerful radio broadcasts across Europe and the ability to drop enormous numbers of leaflets from planes, and their Psychological Warfare Executive had apparently done so with those claims:
In fact, some years ago I remember reading somewhere that the British had dropped large numbers of propaganda-leaflets promoting those false gas-chamber claims, though I doubt I’d be able to locate the reference. But that evidence seems to be fully confirmed by those declassified British documents.
Again, we have proof that the British had promoted knowingly-false gas chamber hoaxes. Then, by an amazing coincidence, the Germans decided to implement exactly that same atrocity-policy, and did so in a particularly ridiculous and incompetent fashion, as you’ll discover if you read any of the books or watch the video I embedded.
Well, it annoys you, so there is some utility in it as far as I’m concerned.
Oh? I think you are a bit imprecise here, Pretzel.
You referenced & responded:
RU: Don’t forget that the Holocaust had been a mainstay of British wartime propaganda
Pretzel: That isn’t really true. If anything, Allied propaganda on all sides (UK, US, USSR) tended to downplay any special focus on Jews. No one was interested in playing up to Hitler’s charges that the war was being fought for Jews. Jews could get mentioned occasionally, but nothing about Allied propaganda ever gave a sharp focus to Jews.
But, here is the greater/actual context:
RU: Don’t forget that the Holocaust had been a mainstay of British wartime propaganda and none of the Allied governments ever publicly admitted it had just been a hoax, so I’m sure that lots of ordinary people continued to believe in it….Furthermore, the Israeli government continued promoting it into the 1950s…. But none of the serious historians seemed to believe it and the mainstream just ignored it.
The real argument is why didn’t clear evidence/testimony regarding homicidal gas chambers come to light when the Allies were liberating those camps and poking around the camp grounds to determine what had been going on? Were the gas chamber rumors, more or less, considered to be just rumors/propaganda, as frequently occurs during conflicts, or was there any veracity to the claims/rumors? Obviously, the consensus was/is they were considered rumors. And they were considered rumors because there was no direct evidence obtained/apparent of homicidal gas chambers immediately after the camps were liberated/war’s end.
So, you then asserted that Allied propaganda downplayed any special focus on Jews, as the Allies wanted to avoid the appearance of a world war being fought over the Jews (which it was), and whilst the Jews were occasionally mentioned (they were often mentioned), no sharp focus was made (November 30, 1938 – MORE WARNINGS FROM GERMANY – Danger for all Jews in Naziland; October 8, 1943 – GESTAPO RAIDS ON DANISH JEWS HITLER’S OWN IDEA; February 23, 1943 – […] to liberate from Nazi-occupied Europe Jews who were described as being in danger of complete extermination; April 20, 1943 – The Nazis since the start of the war have slain 2,000,000 Jewish men, women and children and 5,000,000 other Jews are in immediate danger of extinction…so, what’s the focus then, if not Jews in peril?), yet I find numerous (thousands) headlines/articles that seem rather sharp and focused, therefore you’re wrong, Pretzel.
Who denies he commented on eastern expansion? The arguments are over whether it was entirely expansion, rather than recovery, and the other purposes of strengthening Germany against economic sanctions /blockades, as was perfidiously done after WW1, and future Soviet/Bolshevik incursions.
Because there were no homicidal gas chambers, Pretzel.
I suppose it’s all a sub-issue of this core circumstance described by a speaker unknown to me; his comments are regarding America, but it’s applicable to Europe, as well:
Jewish immigration really only became a big thing at the end of the 19th century, and Jews looked around when they arrived here, en mass from Eastern Europe primarily, they arrived in the United States like a hacker arrives at a website, and they look around, and they looked for the design flaws in the United States that they could exploit, and they saw this pre-existing design flaw; this pre-existing conflict between people who basically defined their interest economically and were pushing the idea of the United States as a proposition nation versus the people who had an ethnic idea of Nationhood. And they allied themselves with the former tendency and they put a great deal of money and cleverness and energy behind pushing this notion of the United States as a non-ethnically defined nation – why? Well, because if you defined the United States as a northern European protestant nation, a WASP nation…, Jews are definitely excluded; they’re definitely outsiders, and so they warred against this identity for America and replaced it with a propositional identity based on universal rights and the desire for economic betterment, and freedom of religion, and so forth, because that made Jews insiders, and of course, then Jews made sure that they, over a century, have become the ultimate insiders, and really, I think the people who control all important aspects of the American system. They’re not the sole power in America, but they are a dominant group and they definitely get their way on any issue that really matters to them. And, one of the things that they have worked tirelessly for is to prevent any kind of nativist movement to prevent the white population of America, from defending itself ethnically from indigenous blacks basically, from the blacks we imported, I should say; from Indigenous native peoples, especially the ones coming from south of the border in enormous numbers, and basically now, from people all over the world who want to come here. Jews, basically have promoted non-white immigration and non-white emancipation in America because they believe that once whites become a minority in this country, that it will be impossible for there to be an ethnically defined, nativist, white movement that opposes Jewish interests to arise…. they want to make sure that in any white country where they exist…. they’re trying to create a society where they will not experience the kind of resistance to their presence and interests that existed before the Second World War in places like Germany…. They promote multiculturalism, multi racialism, and the demographic decline of whites, and they’re doing it in the United States, and they’re doing it in every other European country, as well…. they’re all for Jewish ethnic pride, Jewish education, and so forth, and yet they oppose these very things for whites in white countries. They are for open borders in white countries; they are promoting miscegenation and race-mixing… they are opposed to any forms of white patriotism… opposed to monocultural, Eurocentric education…
The end.
What say you, Pretzel? Irrelevant?
Happy Kwanza, my Bolshevik Pretzel…may you simmer (not boil, cuz it is Christmas, after all) in Bolshevik ecstasy this holiday season.
One of the paragraphs quoted by Ron Unz says ‘we have spread’, which I construe as ‘we the British have spread’.
The article which I linked to in (#626) is considerably detailed, though referring to propaganda directed at the Germans. Until 1942, what you said is true: they were not emphasizing Jewish suffering. In 1942 and 1943, however, there was a period during which the Holocaust was frequently mentioned. Thomas Mann referred to gassings in several of his radio emissions. Witness’ reports were sometimes used in British propaganda:
Also the gassings in Auschwitz deserved mention:
The propaganda directed at the allies followed a similar pattern:
“Europe against the Germans”: The British Resistance Narrative, 1940-1950
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27752640
I don’t know what you consider the “Cold War” to be. This assumes that spheres of influence were the desired end state of each side, that ‘peaceful coexistence’ could just go on indefinitely. But that was not the case. In reality, the ‘containment’ strategy was the least aggressive method to slowly erode and destroy the Soviet Union’s sphere of influence. It was a method of war to weaken an enemy by using the least effort. In a way, even FDR wanted to destroy the Soviet Union by excessive appeasement and passive liberalization, as bizarre as that sounds. But in this effort, he was a total failure. At the core of both states, each side sought to expand their ‘sphere of influence’ indefinitely. Both sides of the dialectical conflict wanted the other side to disappear. And that’s not because of some decisions made by individual statesmen in 1945; it’s due to the core ideological foundation and long term objectives of each state. To put it bluntly, both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were crusader states leading the global vanguard against the other. If that isn’t a “Cold War” or a war of some kind, I don’t know what is. Here I would recommend you read J. V. Stalin, especially speeches in 1927-29 on the international question. In his mind, he was definitely at the center of a long term war for world domination. We can look at Spain 1936-37 as a test case for Soviet foreign policy since it ended up being a subverted and failed puppet state not ‘contained’ to Eastern Europe. Similar ideas were in mind for Italy and France after 1945.
Perhaps some of the more egregious moments of the Cold War could’ve been avoided if FDR had been more assertive earlier, but NATO and the Warsaw Pact would’ve happened as instruments of containment and eventual slow expansion. So, given these actual and real premises, there’s no way to avoid the Cold War, only a better way to wage it.
FDR’s strategy was to demure, hand over foreign territory, grovel for Stalin’s favor, and get rid of people who weren’t telling him what he wanted to hear. He had no interest in George Kennan’s ideas at all. The only ambassador FDR liked was Joseph E. Davies, a man who I initially assumed was a Soviet agent based on his egregious reporting. But apparently, Davies was just an able and willing liar and “yes man” for FDR. At any rate, for all of his humiliating submissiveness and groveling, FDR never received Stalin’s favor anyway. Apparently, the General Secretary of the CPSU respected Churchill more and was happy to run roughshod over the liberal American dupe. And had FDR lived, perhaps all the money and support that the Soviet Union was pumping into the Italian and French communist parties would’ve led to a more favorable outcome.
> find any British documentary references regarding their promotion of knowingly-false gas chamber propaganda-hoaxes and I did exactly that.
You really did not, but I’ll provide the full text so that people can judge for themselves.
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In my opinion it is incorrect to describe Polish Information regarding German atrocities as “trustworthy”. The Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up. They seem to have succeeded.
Mr. Allen and myself have both followed German atrocities quite closely. I do not believe that there is any evidence which would be accepted in a Law Court that Polish children have been killed on the spot by Germans when their parents were being deported to work in Germany, nor that Polish children have been sold to German settlers. As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done. There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up in P.W.E. rumours without believing that they had any foundation. At any rate there is far less evidence than exists for the mass murder of Polish officers by the Russians at Katyn. On the other hand we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for manual labour.
I think that we weaken our case against the Germans by publicly giving credence to atrocity stories for which we have no evidence. These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the story of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie and led to the true stories of German enormities being brushed aside as being mere propaganda.
—–
This note Victor Cavendish-Bentinck. The obvious points to note are that:
1) CB is charging the Poles and Jews with having a tendency to “exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up.” The whole thrust of this document as an expression of caution against casually promoting atrocity stories without checking the factual basis.
2) Despite that he remains convinced that “the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for manual labour.” He may have been wrong about this, but it is hardly an example of knowingly promoting something that is false.
3) It’s only in an exercise of self-flagellation that he says “we have played them up in P.W.E. rumours without believing that they had any foundation.” We don’t actually have any real documented case of British officers knowingly promoting a false gas chamber story. Instead, we have the charge that Poles and Jews are promoting false stories and British officers may have been reckless in repeating them. This hardly qualifies as an example of British propaganda pushing the gas chamber story.
If there were any major effort by British propaganda to promote a gas chamber story, then you should simply be able to name some widely promoted British publications. This doesn’t rise to that. At most, it some British officers felt there was too much a willingness to pass along stories which came Poles and Jews.
On a more finessed level, it’s worth pointing out that while he remarks at the start that “Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities” his subsequent emphasis is on criticizing stories having to do with Poles:
“I do not believe that there is any evidence which would be accepted in a Law Court that POLISH children have been killed on the spot by Germans when their parents were being deported to work in Germany, nor that POLISH children have been sold to German settlers.”
In the original transcript, the capitalized instances of “Polish” are underlined by Cavendish-Bentinck. It’s clear that his main direct emphasis was on the possible exaggeration of atrocity stories involving Polish victims. The reference to “Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities” is not the main thrust of the commentary. If anything, this serves as another example of what I already said: Allied propaganda tended to play down the whole Jewish Question and in this case Cavendish-Bentinck was mainly accusing the Poles of spreading some exaggerated stories of anti-Polish atrocities.
For anyone who wants to see the printed text of the note, either Richard Evans, Lying About Hitler, p. 130, or Robert Jan van Pelt, The Case for Auschwitz, p. 127, may be used.
> I don’t know what you consider the “Cold War” to be.
The Cold War was an era when a major leading message taught to people was that the Soviet Union aimed to achieve a military conquest of the world for which it was ready to launch a nuclear war in the belief that this would lead to a triumph of global Communism. There was no evidence that Soviet officials ever thought this way. But that was a central theme of Cold War propaganda. Without that, a partitioning into spheres of influence would have been much less dangerous than what became the Cold War.
George Kennan himself was both the original founder and the subsequent critic of “containment policy” as it was practiced. Kennan repeatedly tried to warn that people who had taken up themes which he had started with the X-telegram were doing it all wrong in his opinion. As I said above, a major reason for this was that the Truman administration found itself forced to invoke exaggerated Cold War threats in order to carry through policies that were really based upon a need to bail out Europe.
In The Origins of the Marshall Plan, John Gimbel shows how it was incipient Franco-German tensions which led Marshall to form his famous plan. The Marshall Plan was sold to the public with the claim that an imminent Soviet attack on western Europe was threatening and this could only be halted with foreign aid. But fear of a Soviet attack was not the motive for the Marshall Plan.
> In 1942 and 1943, however, there was a period during which the Holocaust was frequently mentioned. Thomas Mann referred to gassings in several of his radio emissions.
That statement is general enough that no one will seriously argue. But the general facts are very different from what has been asserted by other posters here. This was how Arthur Butz summarized things, after going through a review of various New York Times stories all the way through 1943:
https://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/7.html
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This completes the survey of relevant New York Times stories for the period of spring 1942 through 1943. Selectivity on my part was, of course, necessary, but I believe that an adequate picture has been given of the sort of stories that were in circulation in supposedly intelligent circles.
What cannot be recaptured is the hysterical atmosphere of the time. The unusually critical reader will have noticed the rather high page number of many of the stories cited, especially those which report specific instances of mass killings. In practical politics only page one counts, and these things seldom appeared on page one. If Roosevelt said something, it was normally printed on page one, but only because he said it, not because he said anything interesting or significant. The allegations of exterminations of Jews do not appear to have had great importance to the public during the war, if one judges from the lack of any prominence given to such stories. Another way to express it is to say that if one spends some time examining the newspapers of the time, a high degree of hostility to the Nazis is obvious, but the specific basis of the hostility is virtually impossible to distinguish. Thus, there is something of an emotional nature missing from our survey, but this is unavoidable.
—–
Let’s narrow that down more sharply:
“The allegations of exterminations of Jews do not appear to have had great importance to the public during the war, if one judges from the lack of any prominence given to such stories.”
In particular, this accounts for why no one felt any imminent need to begin researching the “allegations of extermination of Jews” right after the war.
As usual, you’re quibbling in ridiculous fashion, including numerous unimportant sentences to distract from the central point. Here’s what the declassified British documents contained:
So the British admit they knew those “mass executions in gas chambers” stories were probably “a grotesque lie,” just as ridiculous as the WWI atrocity-hoaxes, yet they “played them up” in their propaganda.
As was noted upthread, the British freely used those “mass executions in gas chambers” stories in their propaganda broadcasts by Thomas Mann and others. As an example:
Are you suggesting that the British considered the mass extermination by gas chambers ridiculous, but sincerely believed that two million Jews had been killed by “hot steam, and electric shock”?
Here’s another direct quote:
So according to the head of British propaganda, the Jews were the absolute worst exaggerators of German atrocities. Yet you seem to think that British official sincerely believed the Jewish claims that millions of their people had been killed in German gas chambers. So what were those ridiculous exaggerations? Were the Jews also claiming that the Germans had been eating them all with sauerkraut and pickles? Please explain what he meant by such extreme Jewish exaggerations?
And since you’re so well-versed in the mainstream literature of this subject, have you had any luck meeting my challenge by locating any significant number of mainstream American articles from the 1950s that seem to accept that the Holocaust story was real?
After all, it was the worst crime in all of human history, had been officially denounced by President Trump and our entire government at Nuremberg, and had only happened a decade earlier. Surely, someone in America other than Jewish-activist groups must have mentioned it somewhere.
And when Prof. Beaty’s huge 1951 bestseller ridiculed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda and was endorsed by so many top American generals, why didn’t the ADL ever challenge him on that point, as they did on so many others?
You are spot on. I really do not understand Ron’s point about propaganda being hyped regarding German atrocities. The above quote that you cite, that Ron cites and that Kollerstrom refers to was written by one man as an opinion with nothing to back it up, and no attributes to data or information. This is solely an idea from Cavendish-Bentinck, who is a diplomat not a historian or observer.
Why doesn’t Ron ask Norman Finkekstein what his parents had to say about the deaths in camps and the Warsaw ghetto of both his fathers side and his mothers side? Would not Finkelstein be a more accurate source then Kollerstrom or Cavendish-Bentinck.l? Straight to the source from anti Zionist Jew hater? Both Finjestein’s parents survived the Warsaw Ghetto.
As for Kollerstrom he is a crackpot conspiracy freak who believes the conspiracy theory that Paul McCartney is dead. Well I can tell you for certain that he is not dead I have Sir Paul numerous times in the East Hampton Citarella gourmet store where he lives(East Hampton) along with that fat slop Carl Bernstein who I really wish was dead. Kollerstrom is not quite a flat earthier but close. Keeping score:
Survivors 1
Deniers 0
Paul McCartney is not dead.
What you’re trying to do here is conflate the specific circumstances as they played out with the underlying conflict itself. The Cold War was not the outcome of “failed diplomacy” or hysteria; it was the existential antagonism that could only exist between opposing states seeking global hegemony. There could only be a temporary deferment of hostilities if there was a mutually desired outcome which required cooperation, the Second World War being one such instance. And even in that case, there were increasing instances of antagonism between allies.
From the Soviet Union’s perspective, the Cold War actually began when the Marxist-Leninist state first came into existence in a world of hostile “capitalist encirclement”. That was the natural state of being from their perspective, which could only be resolved through the eventual supersession of world capitalism. The leaders of the Soviet Union could never trust capitalist “counterrevolutionaries”, especially “Social Democrats” like Franklin Roosevelt who Lenin and Stalin would’ve especially distrusted. Always they imagined there was a trick or trap behind every olive branch. They did not believe capitalist states could be dealt with in ‘good faith’, and they used this ideological premise to rationalize their own incredible deceitful and dishonest tactics.
Kennan’s critique was aimed at how the Cold War was waged, but he did not question the conflict itself. This is Wikipedia’s definition which I think is mostly suitable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
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Except I would say it started before 1945 and never really ended because the nature of the American state ensures it will always be in a “cold war”, or a war of some kind, with any state who challenges its global hegemony.
LOL. Victor Cavendish-Bentinck was “the head of the British Psychological Warfare Executive” and in his private reports, he declared that the wartime propaganda service he controlled had been promoting stories about “mass executions in gas chambers” but that these were probably “a grotesque lie.”
But you still haven’t addressed another important point I’d raised…
During the years 1948-1959, Churchill, Eisenhower, and De Gaulle published their memoirs and histories, which together ran over 7,000 pages.
These men were the greatest victorious heroes of World War II and the massive works they published were intended to permanently establish their places in the world history, not merely for the next few years, but for the many decades and even centuries to come.
You firmly believe that the Holocaust was probably the greatest crime ever committed in human history, the rapid extermination of six million innocent victims by diabolically advanced scientific means.
Those three leaders had led the global campaign to defeat the country responsible for the Holocaust, which had only occurred about a decade earlier.
Yet no one reading those 7,000 pages of text would have ever suspected that any Holocaust had occurred.
How do you explain that?
My computer is being repaired. I am on my phone not possible to respond touch typing on my phone. I will get back to you when I pick up my computer to tomorrow.
What? How did the Soviets come to power in Poland? Surely they didn’t invade Poland, as the Brits/French would have declared war against Russia for so doing, yes?
Stupidity on my part? I’m not always right, but I’m never wrong, Pretzel.
The Soviets fell in the late 80’s, yes? The Soviet authorities left Poland in 91/92, yes? When was the plaque revised, Pretzel?
I looked it up just for you, as I already knew –
Chicago Tribune May 7, 1992
[…]
Jewish and Polish scholars of the Holocaust now agree that the Auschwitz death toll was less than half the four million cited here for four decades. The actual number was probably between 1.1 million and 1.5 million-and at least 90 percent of the victims were Jews.
The fiction that more than a million non-Jews died here was a myth created by Poland`s communist leaders.
It was only after the fall of the last communist government in 1989 that Polish historians were finally allowed to say what Franciszek Piper, manager of historical department at Auschwitz, says he had known for five years. Jewish scholars say they knew the truth for at least 10 years.
[…] Piper said that years of research were needed to get to the truth and that then, ”the people in charge of publishing” in communist Poland ”didn`t believe” the lower number.
[…] ”The numbers that we dealt with before were numbers that were politically motivated,” said Miles Lerman, chairman of international relations for the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council in Washington.
The communists tried to ”de-Judaize” Auschwitz to emphasize that other nationalities, particularly Poles, died at the hands of the Nazis, said Lerman…
[…] The communists tried … to de-emphasize the suffering of the Jews, said Aaron Breitbart, research director for the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles…, so they tended to misappropriate the Holocaust for their own political goals,” said Breitbart.
[…] The Poles and other non-Jews were mostly starved, poisoned or lined up against the infamous Death Wall and shot. The Jews were herded into the gas chambers…
Piper said he used the transport records uncovered by scholars throughout Europe to determine the number of victims. The results of his study were first published by the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem last year. He calculates 1.1 million died…
[…] His study indicates that the Soviets got their original estimates from the testimony of former inmates, camp guards and the camp commander.
Israel Gutman, a historian at Hebrew University in Israel and former Auschwitz prisoner, estimates there were 1.5 million victims at Auschwitz…
Piper agrees the number could be greater…
But what does dramatically lowering the number of victims do to the previous estimates of six million Jewish victims of the Holocaust?
The downward revision actually strengthens the case that 5.5 million to six million Jews died in the Holocaust, said Breitbart. The earlier estimate of two million or more Jews killed at Auschwitz, added to the numbers who died elsewhere, produced a total of more than seven million.
”We have to be careful with numbers,” said Breitbart, ”because it just gives Holocaust-deniers the opportunity to come up with the idea that there was no Holocaust because the numbers were wrong.”
The end.
So, what did we learn? I learned your real name may be Aaron Breitbart.
Am I? Do I? I think I smudge western historians (mainstream) and Soviet BlocPeople equally; generally – liars/obfuscators/activists/Bolsheviks/Useful Idiots – all.
What has been established, beyond dispute, is that there were no homicidal gas chambers at A-B, nor at any camp. What has been established, beyond dispute, is that millions of people cannot be killed, by gas or otherwise, within a period of approximately 2 1/2 years with no traceable evidence/remains. Asking – where did they all go? – is proof of nothing.
In any event, I don’t need to read a single book by any historian to understand what actually happened, or to determine the core premise of the Holocaust is a lie – I watched/listened to the oral testimony of numerous eye-witness Sonderkommandos/inmates; never in my life have I seen/heard more obvious, blatant, ridiculous, nonsensical, outright lying.
I cannot/will not believe that a person who claims to have witnessed thousands of infants/children/elderly sent to their deaths daily would choose to remain silent over it for decades. Are we to believe they All chose silence as a coping mechanism?
What some Polish plaque says today is totally meaningless. And, yes Pretzel, fabrications/lies that destroy Gentile people/nations matters not to organized Jewry.
As an aside, I bothered to read some reviews of Roosevelt’s Lost Alliances: How Personal Politics Helped Start the Cold War by Frank Costigliola. I’ve seen this author mentioned a few times in other places and I’ll admit upfront that the book title is “problematic” in my opinion. Even though I haven’t read it, some reviews confirmed my suspicions.
According to one review, Frank Costigliola apparently claims FDR could’ve averted the Cold War by using economic aid and nuclear technology as bargaining chips, combined with Roosevelt’s personal charm I’m guessing. My question is, what would he be bargaining for? This is from the review:
David Reynolds (2012) Costigliola, F. (2012). “Roosevelt’s Lost Alliances: How Personal Politics Helped Start the Cold War”. Diplomacy & Statecraft, 23:4, 780-782, DOI:10.1080/09592296.2012.737280
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There are many things wrong with this. Firstly, the Soviet Union was an ideological state. Its leaders, especially Lenin and Stalin, were anti-capitalist revolutionary ideologues. Even in the 1920s, their international outlook was something like a global “cold war” between the Soviet sphere and the capitalist sphere, which would culminate in a final showdown. This was evident in a speech Stalin delivered at a Meeting of the Active of the Moscow Organisation of the R.C.P.(B.) on May 9, 1925, if anyone cares to look that up. I’ll just summarize by saying that Stalin outlined a bipolar world order consisting of “Anglo-American” capitalism at one end, versus the Soviet Union at the other end. He said there was temporary stability, but the two poles were locked in a power struggle which would eventually result in winner take all. The USSR did not crave equality; it wanted to win. And it expected the capitalist states to do most of the heavy lifting by destroying each other first.
Secondly, I don’t see how FDR could use the atomic bomb, or nuclear technology in general, as some kind of carrot (or stick) to move Stalin this way or that. Mostly because Stalin was already aware of America’s secret nuclear development program and had established a parallel nuclear program for the USSR. It helped that Soviet ‘agents’ and extensive espionage networks were stealing America’s secrets. So, whether FDR wanted it or not, the Soviet Union was going to have nuclear reactors and atomic bombs soon. I don’t know if Frank Costigliola mentions that or is even aware of that. The USSR especially always regarded technology as something they could steal if there was no other means to obtain it.
Thirdly, any attempt to use economic aid as a bargaining chip would be viewed with resentment. That was shown in the joint-occupation of Germany, where some American leaders had that same thought: use potential reparations and economic concessions from Germany to get some kind of compromise with the Soviet Union. The Soviets immediately detected this attempt to ‘influence’ their behavior and became defensive.
Fourthly, I’ve seen no indication that Stalin thought much of FDR at all. If Roosevelt thought Joseph Stalin had any interest in being his ‘friend’, then I think he was grossly mistaken.
And lastly, but most importantly, FDR’s signature strategy was to give the Soviet Union whatever it wanted while requesting little or nothing in return. And in this regard, I believe Roosevelt dug a deep hole for himself for which he had no exit strategy. Assuming he had lived and finished his fourth term in office, how or why he would’ve changed is unclear to me. He had spent four years dismissing anyone who thought the Soviets should have to reciprocate or concede something in exchange for gratuitous American support. Had he changed his tactics suddenly after years of bending over, it would’ve only confirmed Stalin’s suspicions about him.
So, it seems to me, any premise where Roosevelt imagined himself as a master negotiator with ‘aces up his sleeve’ is totally misguided.
I don’t know whether the English legal tradition of preventing anything being said publicly that might prejudice a case before the Courts could have been a consideration, especially for Chuchill, but it is surely possible having regard to the War Crimes Trials being held at the time of writing and possible indignation amongst Germans who were willing to accept only fair trials. However I would probably look first to the explanation that they didn’t want to expose themselves and their countries to criticism of their patently inadequate efforts to protect the victims of maniacal genocide.
.
Perhaps you should try to get your dates straight…
The first volumes of Churchill’s lengthy WWII history, obviously dealing with pre-Holocaust events, didn’t begin appearing until 1948, with the potentially Holocaust-related volumes not appearing until the early 1950s.
Meanwhile, the Nuremberg Tribunals had already finished in 1946, with the leading Nazis having been convicted and executed towards the end of that year.
Offhand, it’s not clear to me how books published in the late 1940s and early 1950s could “prejudice a case” for individuals who had already been executed several years earlier…
For those who are curious, here’s what the highly politicized Wikipedia has to say about the holocaust at the Nuremberg Trials…
Selected excerpts from Wiki’s entry for the Nuremberg trials:
Most of the defendants were also charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity, and the systematic murder of millions of Jews in the Holocaust was significant to the trial…
On 29 November, the prosecution was unprepared to continue presenting on the invasion of Czechoslovakia, and instead screened Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps. The film, compiled from footage of the liberation of Nazi concentration camps, shocked both the defendants and the judges, who adjourned the trial. Indiscriminate selection and disorganized presentation of documentary evidence without tying it to specific defendants hampered the American prosecutors’ work on the conspiracy to commit crimes against humanity. The Americans summoned Einsatzgruppen commander Otto Ohlendorf, who testified about the murder of 80,000 people by those under his command, and SS general Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski, who admitted that German anti-partisan warfare was little more than a cover for the mass murder of Jews…
Although Soviet prosecutors dealt most extensively with the systematic murder of Jews in eastern Europe, at times they blurred the fate of Jews with that of other Soviet nationalities…
Lev Smirnov presented evidence on the Lidice massacre in Czechoslovakia, adding that such destruction of villages had occurred throughout eastern Europe…
The second film included footage of the Liberation of Majdanek and the liberation of Auschwitz and was considered even more disturbing than the American concentration camp film…
Soviet witnesses included several survivors of German crimes, including… two Holocaust survivors—Samuel Rajzman, a survivor of Treblinka extermination camp, and poet Abraham Sutzkever, who described the murder of tens of thousands of Jews from Vilna…
On 31 August, closing arguments were presented. Over the course of the trial, crimes against humanity and especially against Jews (who were mentioned as victims of Nazi atrocities far more than any other group) came to upstage the aggressive war charge. In contrast to the opening prosecution statements, all eight closing statements highlighted the Holocaust; and the French and British prosecutors made this the main charge, as opposed to that of aggression. All prosecutors except the Americans mentioned the concept of genocide, which had been recently invented by the Polish-Jewish jurist Raphael Lemkin. British prosecutor Shawcross quoted from witness testimony about a murdered Jewish family from Dubno, Ukraine..
The judges determined that crimes against humanity concerning German Jews before 1939 were not under the court’s jurisdiction because the prosecution had not proven a connection to aggressive war…
Initially, it was planned to hold a second international tribunal for German industrialists, but this was never held because of differences between the Allies. Twelve military trials were convened solely by the United States in the same courtroom that had hosted the International Military Tribunal…
These trials emphasized the crimes committed during the Holocaust. The trials heard 1,300 witnesses, entered more than 30,000 documents into evidence, and generated 132,855 pages of transcripts, with the judgements totaling 3,828 pages. Of 177 defendants, 142 were convicted and 25 sentenced to death; the severity of sentencing was related to the defendant’s proximity to mass murder. Legal historian Kevin Jon Heller argues that the trials’ greatest achievement was “their inestimable contribution to the form and substance of international criminal law”, which had been left underdeveloped by the IMT.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials
Whew!! Merry Christmas.
Touché, Wiz, touché.
I think this is the first time I’ve let you get to me, expert annoyer though you are. “You’re sick,” — well, you’re not all wrong, because I’ve been sweating through the hottest weather of my life for several months, and I’m dyspeptic on top of it. That may have contributed to my weak moment.
“second class citizen” — I can’t speak basic truths in public without destroying my career, so yes. I’ll keep my calm in this comment, but that’s an example of gfy with your gaslighting. It’s a great example of your obnoxiousness. Anyone who cares to know on this page has seen endless evidence of the truth of what I say. But that will never stop you from framing your statements from false premises and acting as if you expect us to take it seriously. You’re either a troll or a brainwashed weirdo, not at all mutually exclusive.
I don’t want to test Mr. Unz’s impressive tolerance, so I’ll keep this as brief as I can, but since my previous comment doesn’t represent my views well, and because I think this touches on an extremely important point, I feel the need to address this properly.
First, again, your initial questioning comments were playing the same obnoxious game, framing things in a way that disregards a LOT of known facts, and of course, jew-de-la-creme, false moral posturing for victimhood.
‘Eww! There you go again, playing with the J word! How awful! ‘ Well, again, if there’s one thing in abundance at TUR, it’s evidence of a mind-spinning variety of perfidy and malfeasance, from the almost laughably absurd, like the kosher food label ‘rabbi tax’, to the appalling 30 years of Middle East Wars, to the sickening, perverse, abusive cult of transgenderism. And let’s not forget the Federal Reserve, the War on Whites, the War on Christianity, etc. Oh, and the Cult of Victimhood.
Antisemite? We all know “It’s a trick”, so why do you prattle on? Oh, right. As John McAfee once said on video, ‘You can never admit a lie’ — you’ve got to maintain it even if they’ve seen the truth with their own eyes. Gaslighter. But some gaslighters don’t even know they’re doing it, I think. They have been gaslighted/brainwashed into a false perception of reality that is resistant to contrary evidence and logic, and they expect others to confirm their skewed perception.
To say I hate Semites is silly. If you want to say I hate Jews, say what you mean. Do I? LOL, I don’t think that’s the record my comment history establishes. Except in the minds of those Jews, and those duped by them, with that nervous tic. Even though I did use the word ‘kike’ once (as in, ‘Jew exhibiting stereotypically rotten behavior’). Gasp! The Hatred! LOL.
I will say this: if I hadn’t had a lot of Jewish friends, classmates, teachers, colleagues, most of whom I liked; and I came to find out about the seemingly endless bazaar of trangressions against me and mine and so many others, then I very well might hate Jews. And if I weren’t a pensive, deliberative person who tries to be honest and fair. And who tries to think of a non-disastrous path out of the mess that we’ve all gotten ourselves into. But all those conditions apply, so no dice, Wizzle. If you want to see how I think about Jews, check out Henry Makow, eye-rollers notwithstanding. A great man, imo.
In fact, contrary to what your fear-shriveled* little peabrain tells you, the truth of the matter is that, though I love the wider exposure of Jewish perfidy, I’m concerned that not enough attention is being given to other aspects of a bigger picture, and that this contributes to, 1) imbalanced anti-jewish sentiment that scares Jews into circling wagons around their criminal leaders/manipulators and supporting extreme agendas; 2) enfuriating Euro/Euro derived countries, and others, into disastrous actions, that will almost certainly not be good for many ‘little Jews’. Not good for anyone. *I prescribe the great Israeli documentary, Defamation.
And yes, I am one who thinks the satanic leaders behind all of this mess would sacrifices masses of little Jews if and when it suits their purposes; I think they’ve done it before. So sorry, you need to confront your abusers, not your put-upon neighbors. Some good Jews are doing so, but a lot more need to follow suit. And I say the same thing about Americans. A lot of awful things have been done in our name, and many have supported them and still do. Those of us who love the idea of America that we grew up with need to work on peeling away peoples’ misinformed and brainwashed allegiance to schemes of evildoers.
So much of the divisive commentary here at TUR is aimed at Divide et Impera. All kinds of collective guilting. My view, we all need to focus on criminals. And mafias.
But yes, and I suppose this is anti-Jewish in your mind, there is the Jew Question. This was once commonly recognized, but this has been memory-holed in the Anglosphere, and a number of European countries apparently. Talmudic culture is a criminal culture. And many non-religious Jews still have plenty of residue from that millenia-long hate-based totalitarian theocracy (Shahak’s description, I believe).
So what are we to do? The damage already done is incalculable. Something has to be done.
Well, that’s why we’re under attack from all directions — demographic warfare, medical, financial, information/psychological, reproductive, drug ODs, etc. So that we don’t do anything, until it’s to late to do anything. Doom trolls here at TUR sound like a chorus of frogs, “We’re done for. It’s all over. It’s hopeless. Ribbit.” Maybe they’re right, who knows, but I don’t think so, nor do I see any angle in betting on it.
I do think events will overtake us and many ideas about what ‘we should do’ will be totally irrelevant. But hey, nothing starts without some thoughts put into words, so here’s for a hopeful vision.
Let’s all realize that most of the criminality comes from a very small portion of humanity. If enough turn on them instead of bickering amongst ourselves, they’re done for, their globalist project over (now that’s a multiculturalism I can support). End the wars. End the fiat currency, usury-based, privately owned central banks. Different cultures deserve their sovereign territory where they may do things according to their values, free of weaponized immigration / demographic warfare. So a lot of people need to go home. Claw back all the ill gained wealth of the globalist mafia to finance this repatriation and to use for reparations to compensate somewhat for all the damage done around the world by the rampaging globalists & zionists & their lackeys.
What about Jews? Well, I sympathize with what early Zionists said, about becoming a ‘normal people’ with their own country. But I don’t recognize the Biblical right to take Palestine, and they’ve mucked it so badly with their Bronze Age behavior that I don’t see any future in it. It’s too small, anyway. I fear this is why Ukraine is being liquidated. If I were asked to sit at the negotiating table, I would say, ‘How about Biobidzhan?’ Maybe there’s some reason I don’t know of, but I don’t know why it couldn’t be a lovely country. Snug there between the bear and the dragon to keep them safe and out of trouble. Of course I would be in favor of leaving Jews wealthy enough to build a decent, modern country. And there are a lot of talented Jews, so I have no doubt they could prosper.
I do think the supremacist rabbis, and all criminals need to be separated from humanity so they can do no more harm. A pleasant farm prison on an island somewhere, perhaps? Sure, I can understand the appeal of guillotines, nooses, drawing and quartering, pillories, etc. But I’m not too sanguinary myself; the important thing is that they stop making problems, and that we dampen the vicious cycle rather than reinforce it.
Of course the whole thing is awful to consider. But something needs to be done, and this is just a mental exercise, what the hey. What about all the good Jews? And part-Jews? What would be the cut-off criteria? I gather the nazis wrestled with these vexing questions, and many wanted exceptions for their ‘favorite jews’. We would be just the same.
Get it through your hard noggins — we Europeans are nowhere near as barbarically cruel and vindictive as are Jews. I doubt there are many who want to exterminate Jews despite trolling comments to that effect here. I guess I can see how someone might feel that way, reviewing centuries and centuries of persistent, recurrent, HORRIBLE problems, since before the time of Christ. But I’ve barely ever heard that sentiment in real life, and even then it was probably in jest. I’d never turn on my Jewish friends and the rest I’ve known that way, and I haven’t arrived at that level of brutality in my sentiments even for the irritating, complicit ones like you. That’s you guys, dude. Though, yes, I’m fully aware of the crimes of American and British goyim in war. As Patton said, there was something ‘semitic’ about it all. Sadly, like many Jews, many Brits and Americans have been brainwashed by the same satanic clique. And the military is like a satanic death cult within a cult. Remember that song, “I’m turning Japanese”? Looks to me like they’re turning Jewish. Whine all you want about it, my answer: Gaza, and Guynot’s article are sufficient.
https://www.unz.com/article/the-devils-trick-unmasking-the-god-of-israel/
But r.e. extermination, of course, when/if blood starts flowing, thinking can change for a lot of people; and given the pattern of Jewish criminality, I can see how so many of them are neurotic about payback. And Americans and the people of many other countries are being prodded to provoke rage. I think it’s very, very important that enough people become educated to ‘know their enemy’ so as to avoid being goaded into ill-considered actions like a bull chasing a red flag. And for that, we need to know other sides of the story, not just Jewish perfidy.
But, yeah, ho hum, events will probably overtake us, so prep, too.
As for LBJ helping those Jews into the USA, I stand by that, but I reject your framing. LBJ was a traitor to the USA, for Israel with the USS Liberty. He was also a traitor to the USA for giving higher loyalty to Jews than to his country. If he wanted to rescue Jews, excellent! But he shouldn’t have done it in that capacity. Get that through your head, dingle-weed. Just. Stop. It. You definitely need to go to Birobidzhan, if you haven’t committed serious crimes. And consider, most of America’s heinous crimes have been committed since Jews cemented their power over the country, one hundred ten years minus one day ago, Dec. 23, 1913. So no one in the world has any reason to celebrate the Jewish influx into the USA, any more than they’re celebrating the events in Palestine (Jimmy Dore, great Jew, quoted 95% world demonstrations Pro-Palestine, Anti-Israel).
Doesn’t mean I wish they all died. I don’t accept your Holocaust narrative, which is not to say a bunch of Jews didn’t die. And no, I don’t think it was anything unique in the annals of the world. And it doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that a lot of fine Jews came to the US as well. But I don’t know enough about the era to know what solution I would have proposed. And it’s not worth discussing with a false-framing gadfly.
Much more relevant, what really moved me yesterday is the plight of these two guys, Ryan Samsel and Jake Lang (that may well be Jewish, I’m thinking), rotting in the DC dungeon, as well as so many other J6 prisoners. I hope people can help Samsel before it’s too late.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/12/j6-political-prisoner-ryan-samsel-cant-walk-suffers/
But, okay, since this is just one idea to throw on the table, I’ll finish floating a couple rules and thoughts about who should be forced to live in a Jewish country. Anyone over half Jew. Half and less, who haven’t been up to mischief could choose. Maybe a condition of committing to outbreeding for a few generations. Now, there’s a lot of great Jews that I would be willing to let stay, but on the other hand, they are the most important for setting a new Jewish country on a good trajectory. So I’m open to discussion. These are just ideas. Maybe others have better ideas. But something needs to be done. I would love to talk it over with good Jews, among others. But not you, WoOz.
I merely reported what was written by someone who was there and experienced it first hand.
You’ll forgive me if I no longer believe any “Germany was sooo baaad” propaganda. The more I read from many sources the more I come to the conclusion that Germans were choir boys compared to the capitalist and communist forces ie. allies.
Strewth, Ooze-you missed a career as a stand-up comic. The very silliest ever ‘explanations’ of the non-appearance of Holocaust discussion in all those tomes. Anyone who takes the ‘protections’ of the Common Law seriously is deranged or a humbug. Or both, of course. They didn’t want to prejudice the trials, which in Nuremberg’s case were legalised lynchings, rigged after Goering, in particular, made fools of the prosecution (reminiscent of the legalised lynching of Milosevic)???!!! And the Germans might have been annoyed??!!! ROFL!
I am convinced that European Jewry suffered a genocide in WW2. But why, dear Melanie, do we hear about it ALL the time, endlessly, relentlessly, but NEVER, or rarely, hear of the genocides of the Armenians, Pontic Greeks, Assyrians in Turkey after WW1, or the genocides of Soviets, civilians and POWs, Chinese, Roma, Sinti, Poles, southern Slavs and others during WW2, let alone the VAST genocides committed by Western Imperialism, most of which VASTLY outnumber the genocide of the Jews. Why this horrendous disproportionality in interest and concern?
And is there anything more odious, more despicable, that the Zionazis’ use of the ‘Holocaust’ card every time they step up their genocide of the Palestinians? Surely you must be shamed by that.
Seeing the menorah on the Arch of Titus in Rome cheered me up no end.
Chabadnik Fran shame? lol
Why would the murder of the Jews be in these men’s memoirs? I would never expect the extermination of European Jewry to be part of their story, because it was not part of their war effort. The murder of the Jews was an unknown event during the war, a rumor. No one knew for certain what was going on. It was not apart of Churchills, or Eisenhower’s planing and daily goings on of the war. The Holocaust is a separate subject that was discovered and revealed after the war. It has always been approached as a separate topic. What did these men know about the camps in 1940 to 1944, probably zip. So if that was the period they were writing about, it would not be in their purview. It was a part of German memoirs. Speer, and German historians like Irving. William Sheer writing about Germany and the war.
You firmly believe that the Holocaust was probably the greatest crime ever committed in human history, the rapid extermination of six million innocent victims by diabolically advanced scientific means.
This is such hype Ron. You calling the Holocaust exaggerated rumors pounced upon by the Jews for hysterical effect, is like the kettle calling the pot black. Have you caught some of your hyped to death titles:
Let’s extinguish the Fires of Jewish Supremacy.
The Death of Israel
My absolute favorite like 7 October is a false flag. The Jews murdered themselves, so they could have an excuse to genocide the Pals. Popcorn anyone?
Why is the media ignoring Evidence of Israel’s own actions on 7 October.
Imagine if there were a UR in 1950?
I digress, let’s take a very linear approach to the attempt by the Germans to eliminate all of European Jewry- minus the hype, and examine the known facts, not the how many bodies can fit into the oven problems. It is important to note that what happened to the Jews during WW2 is not the greatest crime ever committed. There have been many genocides thru out history with far higher body counts, although I do not see anyone looking for the graves of the 2 million Cambodians that were murdered by the Khmer Rouge to validate the murders. Like how many was it 1;1 or 1.3 where are those bodies??
The attempted extermination of European Jewry was not the biggest crime in human history, but it is one of the most curious and mind boggling. How it happened, why it happened, and the way in which the Jews in all the occupied countries were destroyed. The Jews were not a country with an army, or a people with power within a country, like Hezbollah is to Lebanon. The Jews were not a militia fighting anyone in any country. They were just citizens who happened to be Jews. I am generalizing the main theme of the curiosity to counter your rather childish claims that it was all hyped, and the atrocities like gassing and shooting were not accurate according to CB as he claimed made up. It is so childish that one just shrugs it off as below incompetent, because there are certain indisputable facts that make up the entirety of the tragedy still to this day inexplicable, unlike other human events.
Let’s start from the beginning, because the beginning is a good place to start. The extermination of world Jewry is less about the Jews and more about the pathology of Hitler, the NS, and the Germans, if there was any group of people who destroyed themselves in a quest for racial purity and perfection it was the Germans. Sacrificing being merely great on the road to perfection. Because perfection of the race was what the Germans wanted.
Without dispute Hitler gassed using CO2 to murder 70,000 German citizens who were mentally or physically disabled, some severely and some just had limps. The examinations, and decisions for euthanasia especially of children became intolerable for the church to handle. Morality aside it is a sin against god to murder lesser than humans. I mean we are talking about a Christian country in 1939 not the vikings. The church and the Germans made Hitler stop. He was admonished and embarrassed. I would also like to remind you that this is above any sort of question of did this really happen. It is well documented with signatures. And the Germans families of those killed were hysterical, like this was an atrocity similar to what you accuse the Jews of.
The first gassing of the Jews was at Chelmno, with C02 poisoning in vans. The same people that were involved in the euthanasia of the disabled Germans set up the Chelmno vans for murdering the Jews. You can see the connection as a continuity of a murderous ideology of murdering people of lesser qualities. Not exactly a great leap to think about the Jews being gassed, when you study the Euthanasia program and how it was carried out. It was ghoulish. I am leaving the gassing of the Jews at Chelmno.
Let’s skip to the Warsaw Ghetto, which is another indisputable event that was documented by the non Jews living in Warsaw. In 1940 under the cooperation of the Jewish Judenrat run by Adam Czerniaków, who oversaw the round up of 40o,000 Warsaw Jews being walled into 1.3 miles of territory, averaging 7 people per room, with no sanitation, normal toilets or showers. Jews had to where armbands with stars of David. All of their possessions, houses and bank accounts were seized.
The Germans insisted on food allotments of 1125 calories per day, which Czerniaków oversaw. The Judenrat in all the ghettos was run like a corporation with meeting rooms, memorandums, German orders etc. The Germans said what they wanted and the Jews complied. 80,000 Jews mostly children died from starvation and disease in the first year. By 1942, the transports began to the camps East. Two years the Ghetto existed. Once the Jews realized that they were being transported to camps to die, there was an uprising. Stroop the Germans SS officer in charge burnt the Ghetto down and the Great Synagogue of Warsaw down, followed by the burning and complete destruction of one of the most beautiful European cities. Hitler burnt Warsaw completely to the ground. Just cause. That is what the Germans did they burnt things to the ground. Czerniaków killed himself failing to save the Jews from the worst disaster possible and having assisted the Germans, in the transport of Jews to their death. There were 3.1 million Jewish Polish citizens in 1939 and something like 385,000 in 1945 at the end of the war.
Now was this the worst tradedy in the world. Nothing compared to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not even close. But that is scarcely the point. The point is what was the point? What possible threat did the Polish Jews pose to the Germans? Your childish mind immediately goes to well the Jews deserved it for being Jews, and then they made up atrocities because that is what neurotic Jews do, become hysterical and make up atrocities. As you say you are always cynically skeptical when it comes to the normalcy of the Jews. But to the mature mind it is the pathology of the Germans that raises questions and is just maddening to understand.
How could such a civilized society as the Germans home to Goethe, Beethoven and Bach participate in such barbarism. For the cruel treatment of the Jews served no useful purpose. NONE. They were not in power, they were just people in a country. As I mentioned it is not the pathology of the Jews which you choose to dwell on, it was the pathology of the NS Germans, who dressed impeccably with shiny leather boots, bolts of lighting on their uniforms, polished buttons, and white gloves who presented an impeccable and disciplined soldier. The NS SS officers displayed such sadism over a perceived weaker and lesser being then the Germans, that they stood over the Jews like they were their prey, a dynamic of master and servant thru out occupied Europe, posed no threat to them, Why starve Jewish women and children? It was witnessed with horror by the Christian Poles because there was a trolly car that ran thru the ghetto where you could see children dying in the street. The Germans created a spectacle. Such a spectacle that by the wars end, the Allies bombed the citizens of Dresden and Hamburg, just to inflict equal suffering. The Germans were reviled not for their oppression but more for their sadism, and the excitement the sadism brought to them. They say that in the lines for selection at the camps, the SS guards wore white gloves. Why? What did it do for them, how did it help them to win war? They were not conquering a people for land. What was the point of their behavior. This behavior is what stands out as Never Seen Before in Human History.
To understand the curiosity of the sadism of the Germans for pointless gains, pointless, you need only three events to study. Other countries when committing acts of barbarity do it for land, or to conquer a civilization that is a threat to them. But the Jews had nothing the Germans could want or use.
Three events, only three events sum up the Shoa (sick of the word Holocaust).
– The 70,000 Germans disabled citizens that were euthanized.
-The Warsaw Ghetto
– The needless and pointless round up and transportation of 475,000 Hungarian Jews in the summer of 1944 to Auschwitz by Eichmann when the war was about to end in a few short months.
All completely pointless. A pathology worth studying and discussing. No it was not the worst event, just the most mind boggling.
An addendum::
When Hitler murdered via gassing 70,000 Germans for imperfections he was playing god. Not really playing he thought he was god. He was deciding who would live and who would die. So let me get this straight you and DB are questioning the exaggeration of atrocities of the Britts and Jews to enhance the evilness of the NS and Hitler. But Hitler as god, and most of Germany accepting Hitler as god, and his determining life and death of everyone including Germans during the war, making men freeze and starve on the Russian Front for him. For Hitler because he was god. Not being able to question his decisions, causing ruination of Germany. That does not bother you.
You cannot make this up. That does not bother you but you are for sure convinced the Jews made up atrocities not only atrocities but the worst atrocities that mankind has witnessed.
That Ron puts you somewhere behind David Irving but still in front of Carolyn Yeager as a viable accurate historian of WW2 and your inability to fully comprehend the Germans plans and desire to eradicate European Jewry, up to the very end of the war. Just pathetic.
My impression is that very large-scale massacres of Jews did in fact occur during WW2, although not in gas chambers, but were mostly shot on the eastern front as partisans or as reprisals against partisan attacks.
Whilst the partisan centres of activity were in eastern Poland, Western Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, areas that had particularly high Jewish populations at the time. Irving himself conceded that “at least” 3 million Jews were killed in reprisals during these period.
Anyway, my position is “the holocaust” largely did occur, but for the most part merely exigencies of German War planning on the eastern front. Whether the number is 3 million or 6 million is not particularly important to my understanding, the main point is that Germans automatically understood Jews in particular to be a group particularly prone to guerrilla activity, and reacted accordingly to wartime conditions.
In the end the results in terms of murdered Jews might not be particularly different from the official narrative, but the issue of gas chambers and pre planned intentionalitity is particularly emotional to many people.
You sound desperate, like the entire holocaust narrative is unraveling. If you continue to go on and on like this, Frau, people who never thought much about it are going to start looking into details
.
I doubt you are the author of this entire post, Fran. I doubt it was Pretzel/Gelding writing for you. Who was it?
[…] Germany has stood for and remains an intricate part of Western Civilization. It is the land of Goethe and Schiller, of Beethoven and Bach. Germany is the pioneer of universal primary education and the modern research university. National Socialism took over, not in a cultural backwater but the most literate, educated, and refined industrial economy that stood at the forefront of scientific discovery and technological development.
How can a political movement of such sheer barbarism have come to power in such a civilized society?
Author – Eric Shierman
After all, Germany was not some barbarian backwater of a bygone era, where one might reasonably expect to discover heartbreaking acts of wanton savagery… This was post-enlightenment, über-industrialized Germany, birthplace of Bach and Beethoven and Brahms, the nation that had gifted the world Goethe and Nietzsche….. If cultural accomplishments, scientific achievement and aesthetic apices were to serve as bulwarks against bare-knuckled, pre-civilized, Hobbesian dystopias, what nation on earth was better equipped to stand sentry than Germany?
Author – Joel Bowman
Fran, I think you should remove Beethoven from your list of Apex Germans, as due to the enlightenment brought/wrought to Europa by Ignatiev, Spectre, Untermyer, Rothschild(s), Soros, Warburgs, etc., – you know, the Aristocrats of the World – we now have a plethora of Useful Idiots, ergo:
How Young America Came to Love Beethoven
On the 250th anniversary of the famous composer’s birth, the story of how his music first took hold across the Atlantic…
But his cultural ascendancy in America was far from a foregone conclusion. As historian Ann Ostendorf has written, a number of music cultures coexisted in colonial America, from the music of enslaved Africans, the many types of Native American music…
As European colonizers settled and amassed wealth…
A port city, the South Carolina city’s status as a hub for the rice trade and an epicenter for the enslavement and sale of people had made it home to some of the wealthiest men in the country….Many of these men—and membership was exclusively limited to men, with women only allowed to attend concerts as guests—had doubtless made their fortunes, in part, through the enslavement of Africans. “In one sense, then, Beethoven arrived in America on the backs of African slaves,” Broyles writes in Beethoven in America.
Author – Nora McGreevy (She gets an eye-roll button)
By my count, there are over 70 Holocaust Museum/Memorial Centers in America. Have you been to the Illinois Holocaust Museum and Education Center? It’s rather swanky, although a post-modern, architectural abomination, and it surely costs millions to maintain and operate annually. Of course, I would never set foot in such place, but I do wonder if there is a section devoted to the half million men/boys who died during World War II? Why do we need so many Holocaust museums/monuments in America? I wonder what would happen if a Gentile opened a Center for the Jewish Colonization & Degradation of America/Europe/Germany?
Why does Sweden need a Paideia Center? – … the trials and tribulations that European Jews have persevered against requires time and resources to understand….has tirelessly worked towards strengthening Jewish culture in Europe… as there are still goals to accomplish as it pertains to providing a level playing field across Europe…. 17 years after it’s inception, PAIDEIA has over 750-program graduates from over 40 countries working in a number of different areas all over Europe; academia, communities, interfaith, education, journalism, the arts and more.
Why does England/Ireland/Scotland need South Asian men to save those countries from – Everyone here is White! – ? Do you Jews ever consider that people from Mexico/South America/Africa/the Middle East/Asia don’t give a rat’s ass about your Holocaust?
Maybe the real concern is/was that the Best of Europe figured out that the Lights-of-the-World-People were trying to flip the switch off? The world is certainly Darker, literally and figuratively, for all the Jewish meddling.
Happy Kwanza to you and your ghost-writer.
You write: “Without dispute Hitler gassed using CO2 to murder 70,000 German citizens who were mentally or physically disabled, some severely and some just had limps.”
My response: Yes, the German euthanasia program did happen. However, the so-called Holocaust did not happen as described.
As I show in my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/9/3/4885, the evidence for the German euthanasia program is overwhelming, while the evidence to support the Holocaust story is severely lacking.
It ties in with jewish supremacy, something that “Frannie” exudes through every pore of its being.
You see, jewish supremacy exalts jews to a higher level than us mere humans. In this way, jewish suffering is seen as more deserving of retribution than the suffering of us mere humans, who are considered to be “livestock with souls, born only to serve the jews”.
The jews had to “invent” the “holocaust©” in order to keep alive their eternal victimhood, to which they succeeded beyond even their wildest dreams.
The “holocaust©” is rapidly losing steam (a good thing) as the true nature of the jew is being exposed for all to see.
The internet makes it impossible to hide jewish atrocities, although the powers-that-be are still attempting to exact “damage control” by trying to control the flow of information. The will not succeed.
> So according to the head of British propaganda, the Jews were the absolute worst exaggerators of German atrocities.
According to the exact same document, in the very next paragraph:
“On the other hand we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for manual labour.”
So, he claims that “we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age.” This is obviously a much more indeterminate document than what you are trying to imply.
> Yet you seem to think that British official sincerely believed the Jewish claims
No, that’s your childish way of thinking. You seem to think that if any author, whether it’s the author of an intelligence commentary such as Victor Cavendish-Bentinck or the author of memoirs such as Churchill, de Gaulle or Eisenhower shows any indeterminacy over what was happening, then you can read your favored interpretation into it. That is not how historical analysis works.
Butz was being more consistent when he stated:
https://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/7.html
—–
The unusually critical reader will have noticed the rather high page number of many of the stories cited, especially those which report specific instances of mass killings. In practical politics only page one counts, and these things seldom appeared on page one. If Roosevelt said something, it was normally printed on page one, but only because he said it, not because he said anything interesting or significant. The allegations of exterminations of Jews do not appear to have had great importance to the public during the war, if one judges from the lack of any prominence given to such stories.
—–
You just developed a hang-up on your claim that somehow the British academics would have been determined to publish big scholarly works about what was going on, unless they somehow knew that everything was essentially fake. That’s absolutely childish false logic. If anything, one would expect most postwar academics to simply allow the dust the settle on the events for a decade or so before any major scholarly research was done. That is totally consistent with the traditional performance of academia.
> And when Prof. Beaty’s huge 1951 bestseller
It really is funny the way that you’ve taken a fascination with Beaty when in every other context you’ve shown disagreement with people who have tried to rehash his viewpoint. Beaty’s book can be briefly summarized in a few words as “Khazars! Khazars! Khazars!” He doesn’t really have much of a traceable argument beyond that.
“The allegations of exterminations of Jews do not appear to have had great importance to the public during the war, if one judges from the lack of any prominence given to such stories.”
That and older people heard similar things many times before in one form or the other. There’s an Holocaust denial debunker who provides on his website pages and pages full of news headlines going back to at least the 1910s announcing the imminent death of millions of Jews in Europe typically from starvation and reporting requests for donations to Jewish organizations. He uses the reproductions to argue against the idea that Jewish groups had announced a Holocaust many times in the past and his examples support the claim, the articles he provides are hyping starvation not murder. Still, it seems likely that the volume of such promotions in American papers over a course of years must have made people hesitant to believe the claims, true or not.
> the nature of the American state ensures it will always be in a “cold war”, or a war of some kind, with any state who challenges its global hegemony.
If one is going to go to such a general conclusion then there really isn’t much serious to argue about. But that is obviously not what is usually presumed in typical commentaries. The traditional take on things was that any flaws in the Truman administration’s policies were based not on some drive for global hegemony by the US but simply on a failure to intervene fast and hard enough in, say, China before 1949. Criticism of the handling of the Marshall Plan was based on the charge that Marshall was not a rugged warrior in the manner of MacArthur. There was no public dispute over the claim that the fundamental motive for the Marshall Plan was an imminent threat from the USSR. In actuality, the Marshall Plan was brought about by French demands for German reparations, and the belief that this was unworkable. To stop the French push, the Marshall Plan was offered, and it was justified by claims that a Soviet invasion of western Europe was feared to be imminent, even though actual intelligence assessments concluded that it was not.
As I said, a major motive for Truman officials in making exaggerated claims of an imminent Soviet threat was to defeat isolationist centered around Robert Taft. There were some valid arguments for this. Truman officials feared that an economic collapse in western Europe would cause much more complicated problems than a hypothetical Soviet invasion. They felt that it was essential for long-term stability that western Europe should be bailed out. But economic aid would not have been a popular argument with Taft-followers. Charges that Truman was facing an imminent Soviet attack on western Europe silenced conservative criticism.
> the Brits/French would have declared war against Russia for so doing, yes?
The intent was to launch a campaign against the USSR that would begin with an attack on the Baku oil fields. For anyone who may actually be interested in the details, see Patrick Osborn, Operation Pike. Once Hitler had struck at France, this became irrelevant.
> Stalin outlined a bipolar world order consisting of “Anglo-American” capitalism at one end, versus the Soviet Union at the other end.
That’s a bit of a distortion of Stalin’s speech.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1925/05/09.htm
—–
Thus, the characteristic feature of the present situation is not only that capitalism and the Soviet system have become stabilised, but also that the forces of these two camps have reached a certain temporary equilibrium…
What is the difference between these two stabilisations? Where does the one and where does the other lead to?
Stabilisation under capitalism, while temporarily strengthening capital, at the same time inevitably leads to the aggravation of the contradictions of capitalism :
a) between the imperialist groups of the various countries; b) between the workers and the capitalists in each country; c) between imperialism and the peoples of all colonial countries.
Stabilisation under the Soviet system, however, while strengthening socialism, at the same time inevitably leads to an alleviation of contradictions and to an improvement in the relations: a) between the proletariat and the peasantry in our country; b) between the proletariat and the colonial peoples of the oppressed countries; c) between the proletarian dictatorship and the workers of all countries.
—–
Stalin is predicting that the capitalist stabilization will be transitory and lead to new outbreaks of conflict between rival imperialists, domestic factions in the imperialist countries, and rebellion in the colonies. Meanwhile, Stalin reassuringly promises that successes in the USSR are going create a more stable foundation for the latter. You can mock the rosy picture that Stalin tries drawing up of future Soviet development (this was before the drive for industrialization was launched with the 5-year plan of 1928, NEP was at its height when this speech was given). But the general tone which comes through in this speech is one of confident restraint. The imperialists are going to have their own wars amongst themselves. The USSR will continue to grow more stable.
It’s one of the propaganda tricks used by shysters like Ernst Topitsch and Vladimir Rezun that such a speech is presented as if it were evidence that Stalin was planning to recklessly launch a massive attack on western and central Europe. This speech is fully compatible with Costigliola’s view that it could have been possible to reach a spheres of influence agreement with Stalin. Compare that speech (when fully read) to Hitler’s repeated claims about the need to acquire living space for Aryans through a drive to the east. Nothing comparable is present in this Stalin speech.
Well, I read over your 1,700 word diatribe and didn’t see much of substance regarding my main points.
You seem to fully admit that no one who read the 1948-1959 WWII histories and memories of Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle—totaling more than 7,000 pages—would have ever suspected that any Holocaust had been committed just a decade earlier by the enemy nation they had successfully defeated. You seem to believe that’s because the Holocaust had nothing to do with WWII. I tend to agree because the former was obviously imaginary but the latter was not. As I’ve pointed out, as far as I can tell, almost no one else writing in the mainstream during the 1950s seemed to have ever mentioned the Holocaust or treated it as real. Why don’t you hunt around and try to find something for me?
You also mentioned the German killing of 70,000 mentally or physically disabled individuals, for which there seems to be enormous documentary evidence. But doesn’t that underscore the very strange absence of any similar evidence regarding the alleged Holocaust, which was supposedly almost 100x larger?
The problem is that you’ve obviously lived your entire life believing in a quasi-religious myth that had no reality and it’s extremely difficult for you to admit that fact.
The problem is that Irving made that “concession” only after his enormously successful career had been totally destroyed, he’d been driven into personal bankruptcy and lost his house, and he’d finally been imprisoned for a year, lucky enough to avoid spending the rest of his life behind bars.
Under such very difficult circumstances, it’s easy to understand why his public statements might “evolve.”
I suspect that if you or most of the other commenters here were faced with such difficulties, you too might be willing to modify your public positions.
As usual, you’re being extremely dishonest in your arguments. Here’s the reason I often focus upon Prof. John Beaty:
(1) He was a well-regarded American academic.
(2) During WWII, he had served as a colonel in Military Intelligence, being responsible for producing the daily Intelligence brief distributed to the White House and all our top military and political leaders.
(3) His 1951 book was a huge bestseller, going through 17 different printings.
(4) In that book, he explicitly denounced the supposed Holocaust as long-discredited wartime propaganda, and sharply criticized the Israelis for continuing to promote it. This is the earliest example of Holocaust Denial I have been able to locate.
(5) His bestseller was glowingly endorsed and praised by a long list of our top generals and admirals, as well as some Senators and other government officials.
(6) That same bestseller was ferociously attacked by the ADL and Jewish groups on numerous different grounds, but none of them ever challenged his explicit Holocaust Denial. The same was true for academic reviewers.
Thus, in his 1951 bestseller Prof. Beaty casually dismissed the Holocaust in just a page or so as debunked wartime propaganda, and based upon all available evidence, nobody at the time, whether Jewish or Gentile, liberal or conservative, much disagreed with him on that particular point.
Furthermore, this happens to be my own personal contribution to the Holocaust Denial portfolio, and I’m really rather proud that no one else seems to have ever previously noticed it.
You’re certainly correct that Beaty was probably mistaken in his support of the Khazar Hypothesis, but he was hardly alone in that view. Although it was a decidedly minority opinion, it had been held for many decades by numerous scholars, both Jewish and non-Jewish. Twenty years later, Arthur Koestler famously wrote an entire book making the same case, and I think it might also be part of Prof. Shlomo Sand’s much more recent international bestseller.
I realize that you’re probably just a paid shill, earning your stipend by stubbornly spouting specious arguments, but I doubt you’re convincing anyone of anything.
However, since you’re likely on someone’s payroll, why don’t you try to do something useful. Go ahead and find for me some a few major examples of mainstream journalists or academics who seemed to believe in the Holocaust during (say) the 1950s, the decade after it had allegedly occurred.
Surely, someone somewhere must have mentioned something about the greatest industrial massacre of innocent civilians in the history of the world, a cataclysmic even that had only taken place a few years before. If you fail to do so, I think that constitutes extremely telling evidence.
> Germans were choir boys compared to the capitalist and communist forces
The focus of my comment was on the rape of Belgium carried out in the summer and fall of 1914. Obviously, there were no “communist” forces in sight at that time (but feel free to critique the Czarist forces). As for the western Allies, whatever later criticisms one may make of them, the German atrocities in Belgium were a ground-breaking event in the context of the early First World War.
> Still, it seems likely that the volume of such promotions in American papers
Most ordinary US citizens would not have recalled anything about stories from 1900 saying that 6 million Jews were on the verge of starvation. Stories like that may have hung on somewhere in little corners of Jewish culture, but the average newspaper reader would have mostly ignored them even when they were first printed.
> (1) He was a well-regarded American academic.
He was a professor of English literature and as such had no special qualifications as historical commentator. Now I can agree with Arthur Butz that some of the most prominent historians on record have occasionally been people who were not academically degreed in the field but simply learned through independent study. One of the useful things about this is that sometimes the non-specialist who enters a field independently may feel a greater obligation to critically analyze sources than an academic who may lean on the prestige of their formal degree. Beaty, however, does not do this.
> Arthur Koestler famously wrote an entire book making the same case
A comparison with Koestler shows exactly the problem. Koestler may have been mistaken in his thesis, but he does actually attempt to defend significant claims. Beaty does not. Instead, Beaty uses his past employment in the intelligence service in much the same way that some people use a Harvard degree. “Ah’ve got my Hah-vahd degree, so you should listen to me!” For Beaty, it’s his past experience as an employee of foreign intelligence which provides his credentialism. But as soon as one ceases to be awed by this, it becomes obvious that he is long on claims and short on substance.
My good comrade, here you are being misleading again. I recommend reading the full speech to get the full context. In Stalin’s view—that is, in the Marxist-Leninist view—the ‘spheres of influence’ are a transitory state; a necessary division before the final equilibrium. What Stalin is talking about is the state of “World Revolution”. This is from the same speech:
My claim is that Stalin is outlining the basic “cold war” premise—a long contest between global factions which ends when one side triumphs over the other—which I think is quite obvious from the evidence. Once again you seem to be conflating ‘hot war’ with ‘cold war’, and also, you’re talking about your favorite—Rezun—yet again. For at least the fourth time now, I’ll point out that I’m not Rezun, so you can leave him out of this discussion. Will there be a fifth time? I bet there will.
Any who, the cold war was a contest that involved various methods of ‘offensive’ action other than just military strikes. This is generally known even if you don’t know it or pretend not to know it. Indeed, it was a war beyond simple military action; a long-term contest of ‘ebbs and flows’ to include all forms psychological, political, and economic battle, but the end result is collapse for one side, and total victory for the other.
Was Stalin content with a ‘sphere of influence’? Or a better question would be, did he work to expand the ‘sphere of influence’ to include the world? I’ll say yes, and I’ve already stated how he planned to expand his sphere without using overt military action (the blueprints being Czechoslovakia 1948, Spain 1937). But I’ll use one of Costigliola’s references to further emphasize the point.
Mark, E. M. (2001). Revolution by Degrees: Stalin’s National-front Strategy for Europe, 1941-1947. United States: Cold War International History Project, Woodrow Wilson International Center of Scholars.
——————————————————-
That is a very good paper by the way. I recommend reading the entire document as it is available for free online.
I did read part of Costigliola’s book btw, and it’s actually not bad. I completely disagree with the author, but he does a good job showing the dark cynicism, hypocrisy, and amorality of Franklin D. Roosevelt, as well as his general disdain of Europe as a whole.
Also, it’s kind of funny that FDR basically acepted the entire secret agreement of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. According to Costigliola’s sources, FDR was willing to ‘write off’ Finland as country that could be totally annexed by the USSR if Stalin decided to keep the Red Army there. I think it’s probably fortunate for Finland that FDR died when he did.
Roosevelt’s Lost Alliances, p. 202-203
——————————————————-
Of course, he was willing to go even further than that. We really don’t know what Roosevelt’s ‘appeasement’ limit was.
That was his job after the war. But during the war, Beaty was, as Ron Unz stated, “a colonel in Military Intelligence, being responsible for producing the daily Intelligence brief distributed to the White House and all our top military and political leaders.” In other words, he did have “special qualifications as historical commentator.”
You really are trying to mislead, aren’t you?
On the other hand, Irving had practically nothing to lose at the point he published his Himmler book. It seems odd that he would decide to “concede” on this point decades after his reputation had already been destroyed and his estate made bankrupt.
If one discards the lurid stories of human lampshades and the like, it’s completely unsurprising millions of Jews died in WW2. Actually it’s hard to even conceive how they couldn’t have, considering the bloodiest theatre of WW2 was fought almost exactly over the old Pale of Settlement.
It was acknowledged by entire political faction at the time that Jews were particularly likely to support Communism, whilst the Nazis were elected mostly on the fear of Bolshevism, something that terrorised all Eastern Europe as well.
Over 20 million citizens of the USSR were killed in the war, mostly civilians. Adding general casualties of Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, whose Jews were overwhelmingly urban, without peasant/rural relatives and disliked by the locals, it’s easy to see how they would be among the first to be shot in reprisals and
or simply starve.
Seems to beggar belief that millions of Jews didn’t die in WW2 along with the rest of Central/East Europe.
Ron or anyone, do you know how those 70,000 disabled Germans were killed?
The standard story is that they were gassed, by carbon monoxide, not Zyklon B. And then cremated. But after reading Ron’s articles on the Holocaust, I’m skeptical of the official stories.
If they were gassed and cremated in actuality, then perhaps that was a source of the stories about Jews being gassed?
From what I read, those atrocity allegations regarding the Germans in Belgium, were investigated and retracted after WWI, unlike the preposterous allegations of WWII, which still make their way into daily news stories today.
You write: “Ron or anyone, do you know how those 70,000 disabled Germans were killed?”
My response: My article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/9/3/4885 discusses this issue under the section titled “Discussion of Killing Methods.”
> In other words, he did have “special qualifications as historical commentator.”
Not in any capacity which is shown in his silly book. Sure, if he had simply attempted to publish something where produces whatever may have been declassified from intelligence reports, then that would have historical interest in the same way as The Pentagon Papers or Wikileaks. But that is not what he does. Instead, he spends a lot of energy blasting off about Khazars, without giving any indication that he has ever tried to study the subject. It’s just an ideological bullhorn which he blows around.
> You really are trying to mislead, aren’t you?
No, you’re just ignorant. You give Beaty special credentials because of his past employment as an intelligence officer, even though nothing that he actually elaborates anywhere in his silly book has any relevance to that. For Beaty, his past as an intelligence officer as is simply invoked as a type of credentialism for unrelated subjects. But you’re obviously easily duped by that kind of act.
And one more thing… it’s a bit odd to compare this Marxist-Leninist speech about world revolution with a Hitler speech about national expansion, considering the circumstances are totally different. Like America, Russia had already gone through the same territorial expansionism that Hitler envisioned, and the tsars were happy to bury any Asiatic kingdoms in Russia’s way. If Yermak Timofeyevich had 300 mechanized divisions of T-34s and T-54s at his disposal, I’m sure he would’ve been happy to drive all the way to the Pacific in one shot.
So the Russian version of the Drang nach Osten and Lebensraum was already a done deal by 1925. Yeah, I would expect some degree of ‘moderation’ at that point. And yet, that was not quite enough.
I guess you were not paying attention. There was a ton of evidence presented to you. You chose to ignore it. Why do you think that Eichmann used every last drop of fuel that the Germans needed for the war and commission all of those trains to transport grandmas and babies to.Auschwitz-Birkenau?
You do know that every major H denier has weighed in on this, the transport of Hungarian Jews by Eichmann. The great Butz claimed only 50,000 employable Jews were transported to help Speer in the war effort. But when Mattogno, Grafe and Rudolf realized that Eichmann transported 475,000 unemployable Jews, they all wrote papers on it.
Maybe you can answer that question ? It is a head scratcher. Mattogno looked at some photos and said he did not see smoke from the chimneys at AB.
But what say you Ron? Why did Eichmann waste every last German resource to transport 475,000 Hungarian Jews in 3 months in 1944, with the war about to end?
Why did the Germans wall in all those Jews into the Warsaw ghetto?
What was the point of hunting down Jews? What did it do for the Germans ? Took up a lot of time and energy. Why?
Anyone calling the Holocaust fake needs to answer those questions. What was it the Germans wanted from the Jews that they spent so much time consumed by them at the expense other parts of the war?
Well, there’s no way of telling exactly what pressures were put upon him or his family. It’s just when someone has reached his eighties and been totally broken and destroyed, narrowly avoiding being sent to prison for the rest of his life, I tend to be very cautious about taking any of his shocking sudden “concessions” at face value.
From what I remember, Irving’s off-hand guess in the 1990s had been that something like a million Jews probably died in WWII, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Since I think there were only something like 7-8 million Jews in the entire region, that sort of death rate would have been among the highest of any European group.
Supposedly, after Stalin occupied half of Poland, he became very suspicious of the huge number of Jews who refused to accept his generous offer of Soviet citizenship, and deported them all to Siberia, with Menachem Begin possibly being in that group. Since so many of them were soft city-dwellers and such mass Soviet deportations were often pretty “rough”, it’s possible that accounted for a substantial fraction of all the WWII Jewish deaths.
Actually, John Wear had published a 2017 article on exactly that subject, which prompted nearly 800 comments:
https://www.unz.com/article/evidence-for-the-german-euthanasia-program-compared-to-the-holocaust/
Ron. Why not ask Norman Finkelstein to write an article in the UR about what his parents and extended family told him about the Holocaust??
Why not ask someone with intimate knowledge whose parents were both survivors of the Warsaw ghetto. Too afraid he might corroborate the Holocaust? And not side with you and others that it is a hoax?
Common Ron seek out the truth?
Atrocity propaganda first and foremost is often a cynical (though quite effective) fear and terrorization control mechanism directed at the people from whence the accusations eminate from. A powerful secondary purpose is the demonization and suppression of a declared ‘enemy’.
It’s been done before. The defeated Southerners were accused of the planned mass murder of their Union POW’s in ‘the camps’ at the conclusion of the US Civil War in 1865. As part of these accusations, they were also accused of diabolically disguising ‘poisonous injections’ as innocent inoculation against disease.
[Had Zyklon B existed at the time and been used by the Confederacy for delousing there’s little doubt the Southerners also would have been accused of ‘gassing’ the Union prisoners.]
The problem for the North was that the accusations of planned mass murder at Andersonville and the other Southern camps were simply not true, nor were there any ‘poisonous injections’, but only honest innoculations against disease.
And due to the Andersonville camp commandant Henry Wirz refusing to lie (thus sparing his own life) and falsely implicate the upper echelons of the defeated South’s political and military leadership in the deaths at the camps, there was no spectacle of a series of show trials and hangings for ‘crimes against humanity’ as had been hoped for by the North.
That would have to wait another eighty years.
The below excerpt is from an October, 1870 article in The Atlantic Monthly entitled ‘Our Israelitish Brethren’. In more modern English the title would translate as ‘Our Jewish Brothers’.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1870/10/our-israelitish-brethren/306257/
‘Of the giant wrongs to which they [the Jewish people] have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded.’
Pretty impressive. You responded with obfuscating verbiage within about 20m of my comment. You’re certainly earning your pay.
Absolutely nobody cares about the Khazar Hypothesis one way or the other, and Beaty merely accepted the historical claims of others on that issue, which were probably wrong. He wasn’t an anthropologist or a genetic scientist and his opinion was mistaken. Who cares? He also was very fearful in 1951 that WWIII might soon break out, and he was also mistaken about that.
You’re extremely disingenuous. During WWII, Prof. Beaty had been responsible for collating all incoming intelligence and producing the daily intelligence briefing report sent to the White House and all our top military and political officials, meaning that he probably had as good access to American wartime intelligence as anyone in our government.
And in his 1951 bestseller, he casually dismissed the Holocaust story as ridiculous, half-forgotten propaganda promoted by Jews and Communists, so insignificant an issue he only devoted a page or so to it. Based upon the reaction to his statements, that seemed pretty much the conventional-wisdom at that time.
I’ve repeatedly challenged you to find a few substantial references to the events of the Holocaust by mainstream American figures in the 1950s. You’ve left numerous lengthy comments on all sorts of extraneous points, but have been totally silent on that matter, indicating you’ve had no luck.
So apparently almost no knowledgeable Americans believed in the reality of the Holocaust just a few years after it had supposedly happened. I wonder why…
“Most ordinary US citizens would not have recalled anything about stories from 1900 . . .”
The articles began in the 1910s and continued for decades. Regular newspaper readers would definitely recall reading such content especially if repeated enough times as it appears to have happened. Again, there are numerous examples of these stories coming from many newspapers.
The threat of the death of millions from starvation accompanied by requests for money is memorable. At least one author labeled ‘antisemitic’ by Jews, Belloc or Solzhenitsyn, also mentioned these fundraising appeals in their book on Jews. Boys crying wolf repeatedly can lead to cynicism which may help explain American indifference to Holocaust stories.
You ask: “Why do you think that Eichmann used every last drop of fuel that the Germans needed for the war and commission all of those trains to transport grandmas and babies to Auschwitz-Birkenau?
My response: Eichmann and the Germans had been sending Jews to Auschwitz-Birkenau and other camps throughout World War II. The transport of hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz-Birkenau in a few months in 1944 was a continuation of that policy.
The mass extermination of Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau did not take place. I explain how we know this in my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/15/2/8214.
You ask: “Why did the Germans wall in all those Jews into the Warsaw ghetto? What was the point of hunting down Jews? What did it do for the Germans ? Took up a lot of time and energy. Why?”
My response: My article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/14/1/8184 answers these questions.
Why do you think PM is being paid. No agency is paying people to go full on Zionist Jewish on UR. The Jewish powers think UR is one step above David Duke. They roll their eyes up at me. “WTF are you on that stupid site for?” Is what I get.
You think higher up’s are paying for controlled demolition Get a life.
Furthermore PM is one of the most knowledgeable people on this site. Historically he knows a vast amount of world history and speaks the truth. It’s funny the way you put him down.
How does it work then, Pretzel? Is it determined by rumors, innuendo, revenge, or ancient prophecy? Why don’t you explain how an accurate historical analysis occurs when specific/pointed allegations arise decades after the event, and significant evidence has been destroyed, dismantled, corroded, designated a sacred burial site, and it is illegal to analyze anything with regard to said historical event?
Oh, the old “enemy of my enemy is my friend” bit? So, England and France knew the Soviets were a menace to Europe, and of course, they thought Germany was a menace to Europe, yet they allied with the Soviets. I wonder what was the determining factor? I wonder……
Yes, France gave assurances to defend Poland, yet they were incapable of defending themselves against Germany; doesn’t that seem rather odd? It seems almost a deliberate effort to give Poland a false sense of security.
[…] Franco-Polish Military Convention which, according to historian Richard Watt, stated that “on the outbreak of war between Germany and Poland, the French would immediately undertake air action against Germany. It was also agreed that on the third day of French mobilization its army would launch a diversionary offensive into German territory, which would be followed by a major military offensive of the full French army to take place no later than fifteen days after mobilization.”
The end.
Exactly how hard did the French press at the Siegfried Line? I understand their war cry was – Pourquoi mourir pour Danzig?!
Wikipedia: Operation Pike – […] British and French politicians were for the continuation of the conflict between Finland and the USSR to legitimize their attack on the Soviets.
Someone should have warned the Finns about English/French perfidy.
Maybe you’re right, Pretzel; maybe most Gentile people thought – what are the Jews kvetching about now? But, you claimed the media specifically avoided the issue of Jewish peril during the war, which is not true, Page 1 headlines notwithstanding. In any event, the real issue is the continual appearance of 6 million in peril, before and during the war, and somehow 6 million! is the definitive killed number.
I’m sure you’re aware of the June 25, 1940 Palm Beach Post article/prediction made by Dr. Nahum Goldmann? – if the Nazis achieve their victory, 6 million Jews in Europe are doomed.
Evening Star, January 18, 1940
Jewish Leaders See Death For Million in Reich
By the Associated Press.
NEW YORK, Jan. 18.-Two leaders of the World Jewish Congress predicted on their arrival from Europe yesterday that 1.000,000 Jews under German domination would be
*killed or starved to death” if the “present state of affairs” continued another year.
[…] They said 2,000.000 other Jews in German-controlled territory would *be reduced to a life of complete misery unless they will have ways of escaping by emigration,” that 6,000,000 Jews were living in prisons or concentration camps in Central Europe and that 3,000,000 in Soviet Russia were “not persecuted as human beings but prevented from living a Jewish life.”
Evening Star, February 10, 1940
400 Delegates Open Jewish Congress Here Tonight
Practical Relief Program For War Sufferers Will Be Presented
At least 400 delegates from 73 cities were gathering in Washington today for the American Jewish Congress called to hear reports on conditions in Europe and to formulate plans for the relief of war victims….
The visitors also will discuss measures to be undertaken in behalf of European Jewry in preparation for peace…..it was said, the congress also will consider good-neighbor relations in the United States to curb anti-racial propaganda and alleged discrimination against Jews in employment.
Speakers at a banquet tomorrow night will discuss the probable status of the Jew after the war. They will include Mrs. Franklin de Roosevelt… Dr. Goldman and Dr. Stephen S Wise.
The end.
So, America was necessary in determining the status of European Jewry in early 1940? I think we have evidence of a FOCUS on Jews. It’s too bad we didn’t/don’t focus on the European-blooded people in America and Europe.
You write: “The Jewish powers think UR is one step above David Duke.”
My response: David Duke’s book “Jewish Supremacism” is a good book. I recommend that you read it some time.
Fair enough. Indeed good debating answer but, remembering that Churchill was principally a political leader attempting a come back and had a large staff helping him with his “history” AND the actual telling of true history was likely to be well subordinated to the money he was to make out of it, his political future and his place in history (as to which he couldn’t claim to have done anything much for Jews) is it not likely that, while the first volume was being researched and written someone on his research staff might have said to him “given what is now being said about the killing of Jews isn’t it desirable to take the story of why it happened back to Mein Kampf – and your shrewd apprehension of it of course?”
To which Churchill might have had several reasons for finding it undesirable, and at least unnecessary, but shortly said ” no, nothing to be said about something which is or is likely to come before the courts. My God, those Nazis have got enough bad character problems to do for them without adding stuff which English lawyers would tell me is very naughty”. And so, it may just have become a verboten subject for those working for him, esppecially if, perhaps, he let out the occasionaladmission that he sometimes wondered if they could n’t have done more for the victims. And here’s an impromptu thought about testing Churchill’s views and motivation. What did he say about the Bengal Famine? Admittedly only about 3 million were said to have died.
I’ll pay you the compliment of having evoked a “Wow” frkm me without my reading more than enough to be sure my original short comment was probably cloose to truth.
Somebody had something to say about this at one time in the 20th century:
There is something you should be told – the nationalist name next to each politician and his affiliation means nothing since the Jews and their puppets were in control. Example : the American Joe Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist, but he is considered an American Catholic. PS : Zionists are 100% atheist = Pravda.
And the Zionists and their Pals will and can make up any document, article, book or BS , because they own the publisher companies. AS in my University textbooks were most likely made by the same Tribe that published my wife’s textbooks at the University -Odecca. Sabe’ or Panimyu ?
How did their high morality work out for the people of the fatherland. Aww too bad. The world thought THEY were the sickest people the world had ever seen. One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor.
The problem is that you’ve obviously spent your entire life ashamed at being Jewish, with such deep shame it created a psychological tick. You have devoted yourself to supporting the lowest form of Jew hatred and show an obvious inability to separate fact from fiction, even when the Jew hatred rises to the comical or product of mentally deranged people. You use this agency at great expense to your credibility and the rejection of you as an honest non biased historian.
The proof is in the review of your writings and ideas. Who today is a Holocaust denier???
Sure. Here’s a comment I left six months ago regarding “Patrick McNally”:
https://www.unz.com/runz/why-everything-you-know-about-world-war-ii-is-wrong/?showcomments#comment-6018908
Yes, I am inclined to agree. It has worked out very poorly for the people of Germany. If the world ever decides to move forward with peace, justice, and reconciliation, then there will have to be some kind of reckoning with the German people. War guilt has been imposed on them after two world wars.
The vanquishers have set a ceiling, as you say, which confines the vanquished, boxing the Germans in through a sense of guilt. At the same time, what is a ceiling for the Germans is a floor for the Americans, Israelis, and other parties, who extract tribute from Germany based on false conceptions of who started the wars and what was done during them.
Nevertheless, your tireless and desperate attempts to prop up the collapsing holocaust narrative have no doubt led people to do their own research, bringing us one step closer to the day of reconciliation with the German people. A lie must be constantly attended to, but the truth can stand on its own and will prevail
I seldom go back-and-forth with trolls, but your glassy-eyed numbskullery is just too tempting, WoOz.
‘Oooohhh, he wants us to have our own undisputed country, with no crimes committed in its founding, and no enemies on our borders! But with no possibility for expansion, and no goyim to fleece, as if our souls weren’t extra-special!! The Haaatred!’
Why do you insist on calling hostility down on your people with contemptible behavior? Do you hate Jews, WoOz?
Off to Birobidzhan with you, Weasel of ZOG!
Psychological tick? Queen Esther doesn’t get it and never will.
Only a Jewish Supremacist wouldn’t be ashamed of reprehensible Jewish Supremacist behaviour.
She’s just as clueless as Florida representative Randy Fine.
Here, I’ll let MMA fighter, Jake Shields, try and explain it to you…
The world was told they were the sickest people.
If Netflix or the History Channel would broadcast The Greatest Story Never Told or Europa: The Last Battle, the entire Holocaust narrative would collapse upon just a minuscule effort at fact-checking.
Survivor Anna Kaudrova Bergman, yet another un-killed Jew from Prague, who said anti-semitism in Europe did not hinder her fabulous life in any respect until 1941, was sent to Theresienstadt in late 1941, approximately ten days after her husband was transported thereto, and when asked what she packed for this terrible journey, she said- donuts. She had her home cook whip up a batch of her husband‘s favorite pastry. I guess she was blissfully unaware, somehow, of Jews dropping like flies immediately upon arrival of the Nazis and/or subsequent interment in “death” camps.
Hmmm,
The narrative evolved such that TRUTH = anti-antisemitism.
Now it is TRUTH = Jew hatred.
Franny and her ilk certainly have fertile, albeit sick, minds.
Truth = truth, and is verifiable. Whereas Franny’s caterwauling allegations are expected be accepted at face value because there are no verifiable forensic facts to substantiate any of them.
In this blog alone thousands upon thousands of posts have been written regarding facts and fiction of the holocost.
Yet NEVER has one verifiable forensic piece of evidence been offered in support of these baseless allegations!
Permit me to repeat this: Not one iota of verifiable forensic evidence in support of allegations of holocostianity, in thousands upon thousands of postings here.
There is obviously a moral here.
> In Stalin’s view—that is, in the Marxist-Leninist view—the ‘spheres of influence’ are a transitory state
Sure, of course, obviously. But your own cited passage supports exactly which I had made.
—–
How long this period will last it is difficult to say. At all events, there is no doubt that it will be a long one, and there is no doubt also that it will contain ebbs and flows. The world revolutionary movement at the present time has entered a period of ebb of the revolution, but, for a number of reasons, of which I shall speak later, the tide must turn again, and it may end in the victory of the proletariat. On the other hand, it may not end in victory, but be replaced by a new ebb, which in its turn is bound to be followed by another rise in the tide of the revolution.
—–
That is exactly how peace has traditionally been maintained. The British, French, Spanish et cetera may all be convinced that their own empire is the rising one. But was typically breaks when one specific power becomes more impatient. In the speech which you cite, Stalin shows a great latitude. Of course, the world revolution is bound to triumph eventually. But it has “entered a period of ebb.” Eventually though “the tide must turn again.” But even that inevitably occurs, “it may not end in victory, but be replaced by a new ebb.’
All of this shows a very patient long-term view by Stalin. Nothing in these passages even remotely hints of a reckless drive to begin invading other countries. The most one can read from it is that if circumstances are ever propitious, then there may come a time when it would be appropriate for the USSR to act in ways which are not suitable at present. But that must be evaluated carefully with close attention to changing circumstances. This, obviously, is how most periods of general peace have traditionally been maintained. Every power is willing to look out for opportunities, but cautious about rushing into anything. That is how the balance of power has traditionally worked.
Compare this to Hitler’s speech of February 3, 1933, just 4 days after gaining the Chancellorship:
—–
There are two possible ways of overcoming our desperate situation: firstly, seizing by force new markets for our production; secondly, obtaining new Lebensraum for our population surplus. A peace-loving public will not stomach objectives like these. It will have to be prepared for them…
We must make all our economic and military preparations in secret, and only come out into the open when they are 100 percent complete. Then we will have regained the freedom of decision…
Then we must decide: foreign markets, or colonies? I’m for colonies… One day the time will come when we can raise a mighty army (and let me emphasize that I will never use the armed forces to fight an internal enemy: I have other means of doing that.)
—–
— David Irving, The War Path, 28-9, Focal Point, 2013.
That is an example of a leader talking with the aim of making military preparations and then shifting to offensive action as soon the preparations are complete. Nothing like that will be found in Stalin’s speeches.
> those atrocity allegations regarding the Germans in Belgium, were investigated
No, they were not. What happened was that the climax of the war in 1918 left many people in Allied countries with a huge sense of waste. Because of this, the whole subject of exactly how the German forces behaved in Belgium was played down all through the 1930s.
—–
Particularly remarkable is the lack of curiosity, on the part of scholars as well as journalists both before and after World War II, about what actually happened in Belgium in August, 1914. The many volumes providing detailed and credible eyewitness accounts of the events were never consulted. The notebooks and boxes of additional testimony in archives in Brussels, Mechelen, Namur, and Liege were never disturbed.
—–
— Jeff Lipkes, Rehearsals: The German Army in Belgium, August 1914, p. 604.
> If Yermak Timofeyevich had 300 mechanized divisions of T-34s and T-54s at his disposal, I’m sure he would’ve been happy to drive all the way to the Pacific in one shot.
Perfectly easy to imagine. But not very relevant on the matter of whether or not Stalin’s speech in 1925 (or any other) really shows an inclination to recklessly start a war. It does not.
If one is going to try to search for a standard of comparison for Germany (whether under Hitler or Wilhelm II), the most natural reference is Britain. The period of rise of the British Empire can be mapped as 1707-1914, followed by the decline of 1914-45. Over the more 2 centuries of its rise, Britain many times accepted divisions of spheres of influence with powers even while its empire was gradually growing.
In the late 19th century, there were many signs that Bismarck’s Germany was rising to preeminence. But Wilhelm II took a reckless path of instigating confrontations such as with France over Morocco. Even though there was no evidence that formal colonies were likely add much to the German economy and might even be a drain. The result was World War I.
When Hitler gained the Chancellorship, he had the opportunity to be patient once more. Without Germany making attempts to seize living space in the east, Hitler could have easily built alliances with Poles, Czechs and other east European states. The USSR would have had to sit patiently while Germany became more influential through soft non-aggressive means. Then with Stalin dying in 1953, the USSR would have grown weaker in the aftermath of Khrushchev’s attacks on Stalin. The way would be open for German influence to grow even more.
But this was not satisfactory to Hitler. The drive to the east for living space was meant to accomplish goals which could only be attained through some application of hard military measures. At a minimum, something like the occupation of Czechia on March 15, 1939. Pushing things this way was what created the war.
There is a new Holocaust movie out called The Zone of Interest there is a review by n The NY Times that touched on a lot of the discussions on this thread.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/magazine/movies-holocaust-zone-of-interest.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
It is told thru the lens of Hoss. a couple of interesting quotes. The mythical aspects. Why it was not discussed in 1950 and 1960’s.
In doing so, he is pushing back against an edifice of conventional wisdom. Thinkers as varied as Jewish theologians and postmodern theorists have conceived of the Holocaust as a singular, almost transcendent disaster — Wiesel’s “ultimate mystery.” This impulse to sequester the Nazi Judeocide from the rest of human experience is understandable, but in the words of the historian Robert Jan van Pelt, it inadvertently consigns the death camps “to the realm of myth, distancing us from an all too concrete historical reality.” It is this concrete historical reality that “The Zone of Interest” seeks to recover.
> Absolutely nobody cares about the Khazar Hypothesis one way or the other
Except that Beaty obviously did care about it enough to harp on it throughout his book. Apart from that, what does he have to offer? People here have referenced his past career as an intelligence officer. Yes, he functioned in that capacity. But where in his book does he offer any detailed, clear, coherent, calm accounts of anything received in such a position? If anything, he invokes his past as an intelligence officer as a form of credentialism, the way some academics will invoke their degrees for such. But he doesn’t produce much from it.
Another interesting quote from the article by Primo Levy.
You write: “That is an example of a leader talking with the aim of making military preparations and then shifting to offensive action as soon [as] the preparations are complete. Nothing like that will be found in Stalin’s speeches.”
My response: I do not agree with your statement.
On May 5, 1941, Stalin made it clear to his generals that the Soviet Union would be the aggressor in a war with Germany. At a banquet a Soviet general toasted Stalin’s peaceful foreign policy. Stalin intervened:
“Allow me to make a correction. A peaceful foreign policy secured peace in our country. A peaceful foreign policy is a good thing. For a while, we drew a line of defenses until we rearmed our army [and] supplied it with modern means of combat. Now, when our army has been rebuilt, our technology modernized, [now that we are] strong [enough] for combat, now we must shift from defense to offense. In conducting the defense of our country, we are compelled to act in an aggressive manner. From defense we have to shift to a military policy of offense. It is indispensable that we reform our training, our propaganda, our press to a mindset of offense. The Red Army is a modern army, and the modern army is an army of offense.”
The general who made the toast to Stalin’s peaceful foreign policy was discharged a few days after this banquet. (Source: Suvorov, Viktor, The Chief Culprit: Stalin’s Grand Design to Start World War II, Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 2008, p. 205).
> At least one author labeled ‘antisemitic’ by Jews, Belloc or Solzhenitsyn
Neither of whom is a typical newspaper reader. As far as what stories appeared and who would have remembered what, something like the American Hebrew of October 31, 1919 (“The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!”) would barely be noticed by non-Jewish audiences. The New York Times of December 3, 1919 (“Ten Millions Face Hunger Death … the death by freezing and starvation of from 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 people”) would have reached a wider audience.
> England and France knew the Soviets were a menace to Europe, and of course, they thought Germany was a menace to Europe, yet they allied with the Soviets.
They were not aligned with the Soviets at the pertinent time. I already brought up the Osborn book, Operation Pike. Look it up if you’re actually interested. At the time from late November 1939 until Hitler struck against France, the view in Allied capitals was that Stalin and Hitler were allies. Both France and Britain were wary of attempting a direct offensive against Germany and landing in another Battle of the Somme or Verdun. Their strategy was to enclose Germany with blockade and sanctions so that the German economy would gradually starve (as had been occurring World War One).
When the Winter War with Finland began, this offered a perfect chance to send troops to fight the Soviets and simultaneously set up a presence which could eventually cut off Germany’s trade with Sweden. Hitler preempted this with landings in Norway and Denmark, and that put an end to Allied plans for sending troops to Finland. It was then that Allied plans shifted towards Baku. The argument was that this would disrupt Soviet deliveries of oil to the Third Reich, while allowing the Allies to establish a tighter presence around central Europe. The German offensive against France in 1940 put an end to this.
After the fall of France, British hopes for victory hinged on a falling out between Hitler and Stalin. Obviously, no one in London was going to advocate an attack on the USSR at that point. One silly argument that you sometimes hear from Hitler-apologists is that since the Allies didn’t actually declare war on the USSR, then they weren’t serious. Of course, Hitler didn’t declare war on the USSR until German forces were barreling into the country. Maybe he wasn’t serious either. Allied intent was to save any declarations until they were actually ready to launch an offensive. Hitler’s moves in Norway and France preempted this both times, so that there was no point in London or Paris issuing a declaration of war on the USSR.
I’ll be sure to share the good news with Rich Brownstein…
Introductory paragraph to The man who’s seen more than 400 Holocaust movies — almost every one ever made — has some takeaways:
Lol, I see this very careful wording you’re employing. Very good, comrade. Very good. Yes, a patient long term commitment… to the eventual destruction of the capitalist West, which was Stalin’s eternal enemy. This is like a distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. I can see how you’re carefully wording your sentences to stay within the ‘letter of the law’, so to speak. But your overall claim is misleading.
I’m afraid not. Because a ‘balance of power’ assumes there is some level of commitment to maintain the balance. It assumes the parties are not working to undermine one another, not working to subvert one another, not working to foment strife and dissention within another party’s ranks, and not working to annihilate the other. In short, it assumes a balance of power is the mutually desired goal for all affected parties, not a product of circumstance between warring enemies who cannot immediately destroy one another. What we have here is the latter.
Stalin was claiming this ‘stabilization’ between enemies was simply temporary, circumstantial, but the end goal was the greatest imbalance of power. His reference to the “ebbs and flows” of world revolution was more like a reference to the ebbs and flows in a war of attrition. He was telling his comrades something like, “We are in a long struggle with Anglo-American capital, and I don’t know how long it will last…”, meaning the balance of power is simply a lull in a continuous struggle. “Right now, the fighting has subsided, and we have a period of recovery. But sooner or later, this period of relative peace will pass, and we will be marching forward against our enemies again.” Then he says something to the effect of, “When the world revolution intensifies, as it inevitably will, it may result in our final victory, or it may lead to another period of recovery. But either way, it will be us who gains at the expense of our enemies (flow). And I can assure you, whether it takes years or decades, the Red Flag will ultimately fly triumphant over the graveyard of Anglo-American capital.”
While he was speaking figuratively, he did acknowledge an ongoing conflict which transcends simple military formations and yet does not exclude military action either. In the future, some unspecified “flow” of revolution might include Red Army offensives against Western capital, but circumstances will dictate. Maybe a communist party will be able to seize power in a Western country. At the very least, maybe we can sew dissention within the ranks of the capitalist system, and thereby gain at the West’s expense. In the context of his worldview, Stalin was alluding to all these possibilities. That is not how a ‘balance of power’ system works. That is a long war of attrition, a clash of civilizations that includes political, economic, propaganda, and, yes, even military conflict. In short, a “cold war” with the option of ‘hot war’. In strict military terms, it would be like an extended period between big offensives. That’s what Stalin was describing.
So, I agree that in this 1925 speech he wasn’t saying “We’re going to drive a thousand Soviet tanks over the ruins of Germany, France, and Spain”, but I think you’re being misleading on purpose. He identified himself, and the Soviet state, as the enemy of Anglo-American capitalism—American and Great Britain—and leader of world revolution. Stalin was saying, “We’re locked in a long struggle for the entire world against Western capital, and we will win”. And since the circumstances could change overnight (the ebb could lead to flow), he was not committing to ‘moderation’. In the face of overwhelming opposition, he was committing to building his forces and evaluating opportunities to increase the revolution.
> the nationalist name next to each politician and his affiliation means nothing since the Jews and their puppets were in control.
Do you actually mean that in reference to this page link which I had suggested?
http://holocaust.skeptik.net/misc/party.htm
If so, then that’s pure fantasy on your part. There was no general cooperation along ethnic lines between those members of the Bolshevik leadership who actually were Jewish. No one who examines the relations between, say, Trotsky and Zinoviev, would ever imagine that they were somehow close ethnic allies. Stalin was able to outsmart them all precisely because they never acted in unison for any length of time. The Whites had lost in the Civil War simply because they alienated the great majority of both Russians and Jews when it mattered. But that was all.
Van Pelt is not a historian, but lectures a the University of Waterloo School of Architecture.
This worthy is on record in a Toronto newspaper where he stated that: “For 99% of what we know of the holocaust, no evidence exists”. As an aside, how can one know anything without evidence thereof?
To any thinking individual the question would arise: “Let’s see the 1% evidence, then”. Unfortunately that evidence has never been offered; I asked that question of van Pelt.
Consequently the entire edifice of the holocost is built on hearsay, caterwauling, and arm waving.
Thousands upon thousands of postings on this blog has proved that no verifiable forensic evidence exists to prove any of those monstrous allegations for the purpose of blackmail, now of all western countries.
Maybe, just maybe, the fact that “Judea Declares War on Germany” in 1933 already, and Jewish murder of a popular German diplomat (plus other murders), may have something to do with this???
To say nothing of the constant Jewish agitation against Germany and the well-being of her people.
As is typical of the tripe you pen, the fact that Britain, France, and the USA defacto declared war on Germany, and not the other way as you imply in your scribbles above.
> On May 5, 1941
Maybe I should have added a stress on dates. The Stalin speech which was originally referenced by another poster on this board was from 1925. The Hitler speech which I referenced was from 1933. Both of these speeches are well enough away from the crisis of 1941 that they can be compared. You’ve jumped the gun over to May 5, 1941, which is a very different matter altogether.
We know that Stalin had not “made it clear to his generals that the Soviet Union would be the aggressor in a war with Germany” in that speech, because 10 days later Marshal Zhukov found it necessary to make up a recommendation which actually suggested a preemptive strike against Germany. Clearly, Zhukov would not have written this memo if Stalin had already affirmatively that the USSR was going to launch its own offensive against Germany before Hitler struck.
At the time when Stalin gave his speech of May 5, the intelligence had already been building for several months that Hitler was going to attack the USSR. Stalin was still suspicious that this a British attempt to trick him into the war. But he also expected that Hitler would likely precede any attack with a confrontation of the sort that had been carried on over Austria and Czechoslovakia in 1938 and with Poland in 1939. In that context, he gave a speech which was not merely kept secret, but which was allowed to partially leak abroad. In the leaks, it was made clear that the USSR was getting prepared for war. This was a way of communicating to Hitler that the USSR would be ready to fight if necessary.
But again, if the May 5 speech had been a definite statement of an intent to start an attack, then Zhukov’s May 15 would have read totally differently. For comparison, just look up Halder’s war diary from July 31, 1940, when Hitler stated his intent to attack the USSR, and thereafter. That’s how things read when the leader has given a clear statement of intent to attack.
From an engineering and logistical standpoint, NONE of the claims made by holocaust™ “survivors” and promoters is possible.
–Killing jews with “bug spray” (Zyklon B) is not only impossible, but is laughable on its face.
–Transporting jews to “camps”, utilizing scarce energy sources, transportation and logistical difficulties only to kill them is not only problematic but impossible as well.
–Tattooing camp inmates only to kill them is also problematic.
–If the “camps” were truly “death camps” why would medical facilities, recreational facilities, brothels, movie theaters, and other amenities be needed?
—“Gas chambers” with non-sealed wooden doors and the lack of ventilation systems for such facilities, once again, disproves the claims made by holocaust™ promoters. Doors that “swing the wrong way” would make retrieval of the bodies impossible. Ordinary light fixtures, rather than explosion proof lighting fixtures are claimed to have been the norm.
–Claims by holocaust™ promoters that gassed bodies were blue or green (rather than bright red) from poisoning are totally false.
–Claims that the inmates could tell when jews were being cremated by the color of smoke emitted from the crematoria chimneys are patently foolish and false.
–Claims that “gassed” bodies were handled without decontamination procedures that would have killed the operators of the supposed “gas chambers” is problematic.
–Let’s not forget “lampshades, wallets, soap and shrunken heads” made from jews is also laughable,
–Crematoria running 24 hours a day, without “downtime” for maintenance on the muffles and flames “visible out of the crematoria stacks” are also impossibilities. Crematoria are designed to burn “clean” with no visible smoke and definitely no flames outside the stacks would be possible. Not only that, the claims that thousands of bodies were cremated daily are a statistical impossibility as it takes approximately 1.5 hours to cremate a human body. If cremation were used on “6 million” jews, the cremation process would have been operating into the 1950s.
–The lack of depositories for bodies and ashes is more proof that the “camps” were not “death camps” but rather “work camps” for the German war effort.
–Anne Frank’s “diary” partially written with a ball-point pen which was not invented till the 1950s. Time travel, anyone? lol
Germans were (and still are) excellent engineers and could not have engineered the grievous errors that are claimed by holocaust promoters.
Follow the shekels…
That was never my claim. What I said was that Stalin identified himself as enemy of the West, and described the world in bipolar terms—a world divided between two antithetical and antagonistic powers, locked in a struggle for the whole. He made the systemic friend/enemy distinction and drew the global battle lines decades before 1945.
I don’t think NS Germany and Imperial Germany are really comparable in general; I view them as distinct states. But I really don’t see how Britain and Germany are comparable. That seems somewhat arbitrary since “Germany” didn’t exactly exist as a unified empire until the 19th century. Britain is also primarily a commercial and sea or colonial empire which extended itself all over the world through its navy. And Britain engaged in many wars–huge wars for world dominance, especially against France and other European empires, which you conveniently left out of your little history snippet. I imagine it would take awhile to explore, set up colonies, and conqueror foreign states in every region on earth, not to mention the various European wars. A lot of this ‘moderation’ you’re obsessed with is circumstantial due to restrictions on logistics, overcoming obstacles, defeating other empires, building up for war, etc. The British empire necessarily took time to physically build, so I think moderation was simply necessary. The further development of industrial and technological power has also caused changes to accelerate. And I don’t see how Britain’s circumstances are comparable to Germany.
No I think you’re misleading here. You can say Wilhelm II was reckless, but I don’t think he had any interest in committing to a big war against Britain, France and Russia. However, France definitely wanted that war. In the years leading up to 1914, France worked to isolate Germany from both Russia and Great Britain, specifically to tip the scale in France’s favor. They also bankrolled Russia’s military build up and encouraged Russia to back Servia over Austria-Hungary. And once France had Britain and Russia locked up in what they perceived to be an anti-German alliance, they committed to Russia’s mobilization, knowing that Germany would fall in line behind Austria-Hungary. And that was how they planned to get back Alsace-Lorraine.
Well, I’d hardly call it a “good debating answer” when I responded to your argument that Churchill had refrained from mentioning the Holocaust in his WWII books in order to avoid prejudicing the trials of Nazi leaders who’d already been convicted and executed years before he’d begun writing them.
It merely demonstrates once again that you’re a total ignoramus who endlessly spouts off on important topics about which you know absolutely nothing.
All you do is squirt barrels of squid-ink to try to obscure the crucial issues…
It’s been several years since I last read the 1951 Beaty book, but from what I remember he devoted much of it—perhaps one-third or one-half—to the then-raging Korean War, the worldwide threat of Communism, and his deep concerns about a Third World War on the near horizon. Some of his views on those topics seem sensible in hindsight and others less so, but none of them have any importance in today’s world.
By contrast, the issue of the Holocaust was an extremely minor matter to him, of so little importance that he only spent about a page or so on it, merely prompted by his irritation that the Israelis were still promoting that ridiculous story in their radio propaganda even after almost everyone else in the world had long since abandoned it as debunked wartime propaganda.
That casual mention could easily have been left out of his bestseller and nobody at the time, including the ADL or any of his other ferociously hostile critics, took the least notice of his criticism. But I think that evidence constitutes one of the most powerful arguments against the reality of the Holocaust.
Incidentally, you’ve now left another couple of thousand words of additional comments, but still don’t seem to have had any success in locating a single mainstream writer or academic who seemed to accept the reality of the Holocaust during the 1950s. Given your obvious diligence, that strengthens the likelihood that no such references exist, just as Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle excluded any mention of the Holocaust from the 7,000 pages about WWII they had published during that same period.
So it appears that (except for Israeli propagandists) almost nobody during the 1950s claimed that the Holocaust had occurred or believed in the reality of that gigantic event, which had allegedly taken place just a few years earlier. I think that has rather powerful implications.
Ha, ha. It’s obvious you haven’t read my lengthy 2018 Holocaust Denial article, because I made that exact same point.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#the-rediscovery-of-the-holocaust
“There was no general cooperation along ethnic lines between those members of the Bolshevik leadership who actually were Jewish.”
So the analysis of ethnic cooperation isn’t a function of participation in the Bolshevik cause generally but of the ethnic cooperation between members of an already filtered group, the leadership of that cause? You want to stick with this explanation?
These papers were distributed across the US not just in Jewish centers and the reference to Belloc and Solzhenitsyn was to corroborate the evidence as well as the characterization. The appeals show no evidence of being directed explicitly to Jewish audiences nor does their mention in secondary sources suggest Jews were the sole or even primary audience.
I was in a hotel room in the Mid West during the start of the Ukraine affair and was surprised to see an ad on Fox News appealing for contributions for Jews in Ukraine. I was surprised because I don’t watch tv at home. I came to learn these ads were being broadcast elsewhere in the US. That’s expensive advertising space for a target audience, Jews, that can be reached through other means, synagogues for instance.
We can agree that the entire Holocaust was unimaginable, unfathomable, and inexplicable. Does not mean it did not happen.
Primo Levy as a survivor who lived thru it could not explain it. That is why the events surrounding the Jews during WW2 draw so much attention not because of the drama of victimization or that what transpired was the worst event in human history. It was not the worst genocide or atrocity to take place in human history. it to this day is the most inexplicable.
I gave you a straight line between the institutional gassing of Germans with disabilities using C02, to the copying using the same institutional techniques and staff using C02 that gassed the Jews first in vans and then in buildings at Chelemno. Yet you thought my info was unconvincing. The Chelemno gassings of Jews are well documented and does not have the baggage of the deniers forensics around Zykon B used much later at AB, where walls were tested for cyanide. Yet you refuse to connect the very obvious dots.
If you were down to your last $5 that was going to have to last you a year to live on, would you spend it on food and water or use it to hire someone to kill someone you hated?
Well that is what Eichmann did with his last $5. It was inexplicable to the Germans under him to the Hungarians to the world and to the people who he tried to sell the Jews to for armaments. That is the way it went down Ron, and no one gets it.
Joseph G. Burg?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Burg_(writer)
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/burg.html
https://www.henrymakow.com/2017/09/Josef-Burg.html
The Israelis killed Churchill’s buddy Walter Guinness. I think Churchill never forgave that personal blow.
Merry Christmas and all the best in 2024, utu. Happy to have you back here.
It seems possible that McNally is doing a retirement job supplementing his pension from his time as an academic or, let’s broaden the possibility as a senior public servant with a long pursued avocation as historian. It shouldn’t surprise you to discover that such a person is, on some subjects, much better read than you. And, let’s say he has a rich Jewish employer. Why wouldn’t he stipulate that, if he is to be regarded as credible he must be allowed to tell it as his research shows it to be and that the deal is that he can’t be told what line to take?
Though even your woodenly clichéd verbiage like “total [ sic] ignoramus”
– not to mention “absolutely nothing about” – is a warning that the brain I know you have has not been switched on I think I should encourage you to try harder. When I said you made a debating point you should have considered whether the message that you were saying tha might sound smart but not stand up to detailed analysis might be right. If you did the work, and I actually did it for you, you would see that the way that the way Churchill’s tea. Of researchers and ghost writers may have responded to an early decision could be the basis for an alternative view. And of course there is the point that Churchill may have thought the Allies failure to do much to save Jews was a reason for leaving the issue out of Churchill’s if ot Hitler’s story.
There we have it! The holocaust is like the virgin birth and how we can have one God in three Persons. It is simply one of life’s unexplainable mysteries that we have to accept on faith
> Yes, a patient long term commitment… to the eventual destruction of the capitalist West, which was Stalin’s eternal enemy.
Great powers in competition with each other have often had long-term commitments to the eventual destruction of each other. That says little about how major wars begin. The Spanish, British, Russian and Ottoman Empires were all in rivalry with each other for lengthy periods. Sometimes this resulted in brief outbreaks of war, and sometimes it even led to alliances against Napoleon. But the outbreak of something like World War One requires special circumstances to explain, such as the reckless way that Wilhelm II instigated confrontations over such places as Morocco and Serbia. In comparison with most great powers throughout history, the Soviet leadership was actually very cautious and patient.
The common piece of tricksterism that always shows up with con artists like you is that any sign of evidence that Soviet leaders would have harbored a long-term aim of seeing their influence spread across the world is treated as evidence of an impending menace. But repeated documentable statements from, say, Adolf Hitler, to the effect that he expects to rapidly achieve gigantic conquests are simply trivialized as minor details. With such double-standards the whole game is rigged in advance.
Britain and France declared war on Germany after Hitler had not only invaded Poland but had occupied Czechia in violation of the Munich Agreement less than 6 months earlier. Hucksters like you always try to peddle your way around the facts. Chamberlain had promised the British public that Munich offered “peace in our time.” But Hitler never intended to follow the treaty. His plans for eventually occupying Czechia and then moving on Poland were already being laid out in October 1938. In the face of that, Britain and France had no choice but to make a firm stand over Poland after March 15, 1939. Failing to do this would have destroyed their credibility as European allies of any state in the future. That led to the declaration of war on September 3.
When the USSR invaded Poland on September 17, the leaders in London and Paris were irked over the whole thing in the same way they had been with Hitler’s occupation of Czechia on March 15. But they hadn’t declared war on Germany in March, and there was no reason to rush into declaring war on the USSR just yet. Instead, they began fashioning plans which involved offensives against the USSR as part of the general strategy for defeating Germany. First, they aimed to send troops to Finland and use this as a way of building up a Scandinavian presence. Hitler cut this off with the landings in Denmark and Norway. Then they planned to strike at the Baku oilfields. Hitler’s invasion of France stopped this.
> France definitely wanted that war.
The Schlieffen Plan, formulated in 1905, was predicated on the idea that any war with Russia would be a war with France as well. The Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5 had made the Russians appear incompetent, while French defenses seemed formidable. Schlieffen was not merely seeking to create an effective defense against a potential French attack. He planned everything with the idea that a German offense should knock France out early, thereby clearing the way for an easy offensive war against Russia. As a consequence, it was already predetermined that any war between Germany and Russia would also be a war with France.
If the German General Staff had been more flexible, they should have planned for a war scenario in which German defense lines hold the French close to the border while Russia is defeated. In that case, the responsibility for launching an offensive would have fallen on the French. Instead, it was Germany which declared war on France and the invasion of France was the first major event of the war. None of that can be rationally blamed on the French leadership.
Not quite. Millions of missing people, who other people saw die. Not quite the virgin birth. The attempt was to wipe out Jewry as was and for the future. Why else would you spend your last $50 to kill grandmas and babies.
Oh yeah that is factual.
> Some of his views on those topics seem sensible in hindsight and others less so, but none of them have any importance in today’s world.
More to the point is that none of it reflects any special experience in intelligence operations. Philip Agee wrote Inside the Company as an account of his experience as a CIA employee. Beaty was really just delivering commentary, whether valid or not, of a kind which lots of writers made. His off-and-on way of bringing up Khazars stands out simply because this is very obviously an issue for which his previous employment would give him no special credentials. Maybe if he had produced some air photos the way Brugioni & Porter (Studies in Intelligence, Special Unclassified Edition, Fall 2000) had, then one could say that his background played some role in the book.
It would be interesting to know what the sales figures for Reitlinger’s books were. Wiki claims that his books “achieved large sales.” But I would imagine that Beaty surpassed those sales. It could still be interesting to know, since Beaty’s sales figures have been given great significance here.
> the ethnic cooperation between members of an already filtered group, the leadership of that cause?
Weird ramblings. The Bolshevik faction was the group with the smallest share of Jews out of all the popular parties.
—–
Jews were members of the central committees of practically all the significant parties of Russia. And in the central committees of the parties of the left wing, the Bolsheviks and the Socialists-Revolutionaries, as a rule the Jews claimed from a quarter to a third of the membership. The Central Committee of the Mensheviks was half-Jewish. At the other end of the scale, three out of sixty-seven members of the Central Committee of the Constitutional Democratic Party who were elected at its Eighth Congress, were Jews.
—–
— Oleg Budnitskii, “The Jews and Revolution: Russian perspectives, 1881-1918,” East European Jewish Affairs, Volume 38, Number 3, p. 329.
Although the Constitutional Democrats had fewer Jewish members among their Central Committee, they had a much greater level support from ordinary non-political Jews. It was ordinary Russians who preferred either the Social Revolutionaries, Mensheviks or Bolsheviks (in that order) over both the liberal Constitutional Democrats and any type of conservatism.
—–
The revolutionary movement culminated in a mammoth general strike which lasted from the twentieth to the thirtieth of October and has been described as the greatest, most thoroughly carried out, and most successful strike in history. Russians seemed to act with a single will… On October 30, the emperor, as advised by Witte, issued the October Manifesto. That brief document … made the empire of the Romanovs a constitutional monarchy… After a free election, the First Duma convened on May 10, 1906. Contrary to its sanguine expectations, the government had suffered a decisive electoral defeat…
The cause of the Left in the First Duma had been injured by the fact that both the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Social Democrats had largely boycotted the election to the Duma…
In contrast to the first election, the government exerted all possible pressure to obtain favorable results in the election to the Second Duma… But the results again disappointed the emperor and his associates. Although … the Duma opposition, including mainly the Cadets and the Left, might have declined from 69 to 68 per cent of the total number of deputies, it became more extreme… The entire Left membership in the Duma rose from 124 to 216 deputies.
—–
— Nicholas Riasanovsky, A History of Russia, Fourth Edition, pp. 407-9, Oxford University Press, 1984.
The non-Left lost votes in the second election to the Duma despite the efforts of outside funders like Jacob Schiff to bolster the liberals:
—–
Western Jewish leaders favored a liberal rather than an extreme or revolutionary movement among Russian Jews. They more readily supported the League for the Attainment of Full Right for the Jewish People of Russia than they did the Bund. The League was founded in March 1905 without socialist participation. In matters of general Russian politics the League, like the Western leaders, favored the Cadets–the Russian Constitutional Democratic Party.
—–
— Zosa Szajkowski, “Paul Nathan, Lucien Wolf, Jacob H. Schiff and the Jewish Revolutionary Movements in Eastern Europe 1903-1917,” Jewish Social Studies, Volume 29, Number 1, p. 11.
The stuff about a “filtered group” is just your fantasy.
> I was in a hotel room in the Mid West during the start of the Ukraine affair and was surprised to see an ad on Fox News appealing for contributions for Jews in Ukraine.
Why should you be surprised? Clearly, Jewish groups in the USA today have a level of influence which is much greater than anything which could be claimed 100 years ago. But you’re missing the main point. I had brought up the New York Times of December 3, 1919 (“Ten Millions Face Hunger Death … the death by freezing and starvation of from 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 people”) as an instance of something which could have reached a lot of people, but which does not say 6 million. Sure, if you go looking through more examples of NYT editorials, then you ought to be able to find something which says the 6 million number. But if you focus only on things which ordinary readers would have seen then you can find enough cases of things like “5,000,000 to 10,000,000 people” that the general reader would have no reason to recall 6 million as something special.
“If you were down to your last $5 that was going to have to last you a year to live on, would you spend it on food and water or use it to hire someone to kill someone you hated?”
This is a tedious exercise presuming a series of unfounded assumptions including placing great weight on a presumption of perfect future foresight and planning that nevertheless, in your telling, was so wrong it must somehow support your theory. Try harder.
Change “someone you hated” to “a group of someones with a proven history of mass murdering out groups, like my people” and you frame the issue in a way reflecting Ron’s position and stripping your comment of the perplexing quality you seek.
“So the analysis of ethnic cooperation isn’t a function of participation in the Bolshevik cause generally but of the ethnic cooperation between members of an already filtered group, the leadership of that cause?”
Congratulations, you found a way to avoid the question by changing the timeline. Jews either did or didn’t constitute an important participating ethnic faction among the Bolsheviks at the time of the revolution and during the terror campaigns?
> Goldhagen’s 1996 book provides just a couple of short sentences spread across his 600 pages
Which is about all that is warranted. No one who seriously examines the politics of Weimar Germany in general and the NSDAP, KPD, SPD in particular would ever draw the conclusion that Hitler was particularly worried about the KPD of the Comintern. The Comintern regarded its greatest opponent as the Second International, for which the Third International had been formed as a rival. Theodore Draper’s article provides a good brief overview of how the Comintern viewed the landscape in the 1920s and early ’30.
https://www.commentary.org/articles/theodore-draper/the-ghost-of-social-fascism/#37
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Therefore, the Communists viewed as their greatest enemies their rivals for the support of the working class—the Social-Democrats. Therefore, the destruction of the mass base of the Social-Democratic parties and allied trade unions became the key to the coming struggle for power.
—–
If Hitler had somehow been particularly concerned about a possible growth influence of the German Communist Party, then he would have logically examined the actual statements made by the KPD and Comintern and realized that they regarded the SPD as their main barrier to power. Having done this, he would have proceeded to seek some type of informal alliance with the SPD. This was exactly the policy which the CIA followed after 1945 when they set up the Congress for Cultural Freedom. The understanding in 1950 was that any attempt to limit the growth of the actual Communist parties had to seek alliance with the older social democratic Left. This is exactly what Hitler would have been doing if he had ever been genuinely motivated by a concern over the KPD and the Comintern.
But he was not. Although one may certainly find hazy references to “Jewish Bolshevism” cropping up all around in Hitler’s speeches, an actual analysis of the contents shows that Hitler’s hostility was overwhelmingly directed at Left of Center and Centrist rivals of the KPD. Just as the attacks of the KPD were primarily directed at the SPD, not the NSDAP. This is hardly surprising because the KPD and NSDAP depended on some degree of social destabilization before they could hope to gain power. Hitler did not want a stable Weimar Republic in which the Social Democrats, Catholic Centrists and such liberal parties predominated over a coalition government.
This was why the KPD supported the 1931 Prussian Landtag referendum. This was aimed at dissolving the Prussian parliament which had been elected on May 20, 1928. The national elections of September 14, 1930, had shown that the SPD was the strongest party, with the NSDAP in 2nd place. Prussia was an important base for the SPD, and so the Right resolved to take the Prussian government down. The KPD supported this because the Comintern directed that it was better to have a defeat for the SPD would be better for the eventual revolution.
Rather than paying any attention to such political developments that occurred within the Comintern, Hitler ignored everything and treated vastly different political forces as if they were one giant blob. In terms of the order of priorities which he attached to things, it was obvious that Hitler was more concerned with tearing down the SPD than with politically countering the Communists. That same perspective is reflected in ideological tracts such as Dietrich Eckhart’s Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin. From the title one might expect that a portion of the pamphlet might be concerned with examining detailed facts about the recent political movements associated with the Comintern. But nothing of the sort is given. The pamphlet is just a hazy ideological tract which shows no interest in methodically analyzing the political movements of the day.
Goldhagen, whatever his other flaws, would be perfectly justified in giving a very low rank to anything involving the real KPD and Comintern in any description of Hitler’s motives and ideology.
Reconciliation is what drove people of good will, both Jewish and German (err…Northern and Southern, rather), to write about what actually had occurred in the South’s wartime Union POW camps after the war, such as the two linked books below.
They believed the hard truth, ie ‘the light of day’, was the best anecdote to hatred driven lies. [There are many close parallels -and not ‘just’ the one’s involving fraudulent postwar accusations against the defeated foe in regards to ‘camps’ and ‘cattle cars’- between the South’s 1861-65 war with the Capitalist United States and Germany’s 1941-45 war with the Communist Soviet Union, which I invite people to explore.]
The True Story of Andersonville Prison: A Defense of Major Henry Wirz (1908) by James Madison Page, a Union POW at Andersonville during the war.
https://archive.org/details/truestoryofander00pageuoft
The Southern Side: or, Andersonville Prison (1876) by R. Randolph Stevenson, a Southern surgeon who had served at Andersonville during the war.
https://archive.org/details/southernsideoran00stev
“Unrelated subjects”? He was responsible for providing the daily intelligence briefings for the political and military leadership of the United States during World War 2! Clearly, that is related to claims about the Holocaust.
You’re so dishonest, clearly intentionally so, that it’s impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Sure, it might be something like that. But he’s published over 265,000 words of comments so far this year, almost all of them very “mainstream” and pro-Jewish, so I doubt he’d be doing that unless he were being paid, whether by a private individual or an organization like the ADL. He may be very well read, but I think it’s more likely he has access to copious “briefing books” of prepared responses to standard arguments, with the latter suggesting that he’s part of some larger organization.
In support of that latter possibility, he seems utterly at sea when I’ve raised novel arguments, such as the implications of the Beaty book or the lack of any Holocaust references during the 1950s. I think I’m the first person to have ever raised these points, so his “briefing books” don’t cover them, and he has no effective responses.
As others have pointed out, he’s also extremely dishonest in his argumentation, underscoring his role as a paid shill, though you’re clearly too dim-witted to notice that.
Incidentally, since you’ve repeatedly said you prefer watching videos to reading anything, I’d really recommend that long Holocaust video from 15-odd years ago I’d linked in an earlier comment. You might really discover some surprising things:
Video Link
Look, I’ve known you on the Internet for almost a quarter-century, and in all those years I’m not sure I can think of a single intelligent thing you’ve ever said.
But the notion that Churchill’s WWII books published in the early 1950s deliberately excluded all mention of the Holocaust in order to avoid prejudicing the trials of Nazi war criminals who’d already been been convicted and executed many years earlier must be one of your dumbest arguments.
What obviously happened is that you hadn’t bothered looking at the dates of the Churchill books, which I’d conveniently included, or had forgotten the date of the Nuremberg trials, or both. And instead of merely admitting your careless laziness, you’re trying to bluff your way out.
Look, you’re just a paid shill, probably working off briefing-books.
Absolutely all the public statements by Hitler and the Nazis pointed to the terrible menace of Jewish-dominated Soviet Communism, which they often called “Judeo-Bolshevism.” That was the overwhelming reason they regarded Jews as so dangerous, especially after that regime had killed so many millions or even tens of millions of Russians, Ukrainians, and others. You may take issue with their analysis, but that’s what all of them said.
Perhaps that’s true to an extent, but ending a competing empire is different than ending all capitalist states and absorbing their people into your ideological world system. The Soviet Union was an enemy of all capitalist (or private property) states from its inception. And in the long run, it desired the equivalent of world domination and ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ everywhere, by whatever means would best achieve that revolutionary concept. The fact that ‘world revolution’ was a core ideological premise of the USSR, at least through the first forty years or so, is something I think you have trouble admitting. The USSR also had no legitimacy from the standpoint of the West–not even a semblance of free and fair elections, or some historically traditional government, or something like that. Its actual legitimacy was “might makes right”, covered up by Marxist ideology. It dealt with all ‘outsider’ countries through lies and deception, employing vast networks of espionage and propaganda before WWII ended. There was never a possibility of ‘fair dealing’, which is another thing I think you have trouble admitting. I don’t see why any Western state was obligated to jump through hoops to satisfy the desires and demands of the USSR, since it could expect little to nothing in return for even great concessions. As your boy Costigliola shows, the attitude of many American bureaucrats who wanted to always be friendly with the USSR was an attitude like, “They’re going to take it anyway, so we might was well give it to them”, which is simply pathetic and embarrassing.
Not exactly, my good comrade. Because I’m not a fellow traveler, or a communist, or a con artist–such as someone who claims the Soviet Union was sincere in pulling out of East Germany and uniting an independent and neutral Germany in the late 40s and early 50s–I simply react negatively to “spreading Soviet influence”.
Well, let’s look at the “cautious and patient” great power in action: Russia 1918, Spain 1936, Finland 1939, Estonia-Latvia-Lithuania 1940, Poland-Romania-Hungary and East Europe 1944-47, Greece 1946, Czechoslovakia 1948, Korea 1950, and several more instances. Doesn’t look too good to me.
Now, it wasn’t the end of the world for these countries, at least not for most people in them, but we have the benefit of hindsight. At any rate, Soviet rule ushered in an unnecessary period of suffering which typically included mass arrests, mass executions, perhaps mass starvations, and a general level of repression that is beyond what we understand in America, even now. As much as you would like to deal favorably with such an empire, I wish we never had conceded so much.
If you want to call me a ‘con artist’, I’m afraid you’ll have to provide some evidence using my own comments. I can gather the ‘lies by omission’ or outright falsehoods that you’ve told in your Soviet rehabilitation spree, and we can compare notes. It’s up to you, but I believe I have the right to call you a con artist and I can show why without invoking what some other person said.
As you are so fond of claiming, I’ll have to point out yet again that I never said the Soviet Union was going to imminently attack the West with overwhelming mechanized divisions at a specific time. I don’t know if that’s sunk into your head yet. Please spare me the “here’s what Hitler said”, or “here’s what Rezun said”, which you are so fond of.
At the beginning of WWII, I believe Stalin planned to eventually take Central Europe by force, possibly parts of Western Europe, but that was contingent upon Germany being significantly weakened by Britain and France. Stalin had said something to the effect of, “But if war breaks out we shall not be able to sit with folded arms. We shall have to take action, but we shall be the last to do so. And we shall do so in order to throw the decisive weight in the scales, the weight that can turn the scales.”
So I’m sure he was glad when WWII did break out, since he had done what he could to make that happen. And he was glad Britain and France declared war on Germany and not the USSR. And he glad Germany was smashing Britain and France too, since they were also enemies of the USSR, but he probably would’ve preferred the US to stay in the Pacific. His offensive plans seem fairly obvious, although the timing is in question. But he didn’t like that it was turning out so one-sided, and Germany’s eastern build up forced Stalin to haphazardly put into motion his offensive plans which were so inadequate in June 1941. He expected Germany to get smashed by a Western state before he could turn turn on them, and there was no contingency for an abrupt German invasion. I’m not sure what he would’ve done if Germany remained strong through the war, but a direct confrontation with a powerful state was something he typically avoided. A bully doesn’t like to fight someone who they know is going to hurt them badly; Stalin liked easy targets, easy wins.
No, you’re being misleading again. Just stop because you’re going to embarrass yourself again. I’ll just use Wikipedia to provide a counterpoint:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Russian_Alliance
France’s desire to regain Alsace-Lorraine is why they wanted Russia to escalate against Austria-Hungary, and why they promised to back them in any war with Germany. And French foreign loans gave them a lot of influence in the Balkans and Russia.
No, no bluffing. As I continue to try and give credit to the views of one who appears to have gone from being an intelligent and constructive young man to an elderly crank with delusions of his omnicompetence and 99% [yes, that ruly mad figure] correctness I increasingly take the view that there is priloably an alternative to the dogmatic Unz view and turn my mind to working out what it might be. I don’t suffer your apparent need to be a believer, albeit just a believer in whatever you have had time to arrive at on a particular subject, so looking at alternative approaches appeals.
You have obvipusly worried that someone might read and accept my sceptical/critical responses to you and chosen to try to bore them off the subject with contradictory – but incomplete – he said/you said blather. To which I reply that readers should read what I said and make their own judgment assuming they are willing and capable.
You condemn yourself by your totally untrue sneer that
If you were still the honest controversialist I once imagined you were you might even have acknowledged your amazing conversion to the video medium you once claimed to despise. If ot seems to flatter your ego when you appear in so many I’m afraid you may be deluded.
I di not now trust your judgment enough to accept your ipse dixit criticism of McNally being all at sea on some issues. I certainly don’t recall your demonstrating it. (I recall I think that you hardly got Beatty up to the presumptive trustworthiness level of your famously blowhard Colonel MacGregor).
You keep on boringly repeating clichéd descriptions of McNally as a “paid shill” but fail to even notice that I was offering an alternative view the terms on which he might be paid.
You do not aid your case by quoting supportive nutters on your webzine as calling his arguments “dishonest”. If you want something to really aid your relative credibility you would challenge David Cole (Stein) to debate your latest extreme view of the Holocaust. Now that it is you that likes videos, especiallyones that you are in, it is surely an iressistable temptation.
“just a paid shill” and “Absolutely all”. Oh dear can’t you even make the AI bot version of Ron Unz sound like a discriminating controversialist. Hiler’s anti Jewish views began accumulating ten years before he became a Nazi. Granted that Jewish Bolshevism as well as Lebensraum was a reason for focus on the East.
Look, I was extremely generous to you, and gave you the benefit of the doubt. You claimed that Churchill had avoided mentioning the Holocaust in his 1951 WWII volume to avoid prejudicing the trials of Nazis who had already been convicted and executed in 1946. Instead of saying you’d completely lost your mind, I merely suggested that you’d been too lazy to bother look at the publication dates I’d already provided.
Well, I’ve simply said that I’d still stand behind 99% of everything I’ve published over the last couple of decades, much of which was ultra-controversial at the time and also today.
Similarly, I assume you’re still standing behind your theory that both JFK and RFK were each accidentally shot and killed by their own bodyguards.
Ron Unz to Wizard of Trolling
May I ask why you constantly feed this Troll?
Is it credible that France wanted war in 1914 with Germany which was vastly more populous and outbreeding the French as well as having a greater economy and having shown its military superiority in the 1870s? How much did Alsace-Lorraine count when France had Africaand Indo-China on its agenda?
Is the video ‘1/3 of the holocaust’? if so I was the one who recommended it to you.
No polish, but the content is really great, and the guy follows big msm names, like Hilberg.
It was removed from youtube, and in Italy you cannot watch it on bitchute either, says it contains ‘incitement to hatred’, buhuhuhu.
Regards
Although the reality of the NS Euthanasia program is not in doubt, the details, including the methods used are NOT. This is something that is admitted even by the somewhat more honest of the holocaust court historians.
For ex, in the recent mainstream holocaust anthology ‘Neue Studien zu nationalsozialistischen Massentötungen durch Giftgas’,
Brigitte Kepplinger characterizes the body of source material with the following words (footnote 9 on p. 79):
In his excellent and recommended book ‘The Gas Chambers of Sherlock Holmes’, holocaust revisionist Samuel Crowell writes:
The holocaust revisionist heavyweight, Carlo Mattogno, basically says the same thing.
Regards
The way my comment is framed has nothing to do with a perplexing outcome. The Hungarian / Jewish history during the German occupation of Hungary is one of the most well documented events of the entire war. The timing, the condition and state that Germany was in, and all of the various countries involved., who wrote about it. Hungary, Germany, the Allies Russia, you name it the German occupation of Hungary in1944 was ground zero for political events that would change the course of the war and the world.
The history was written down on a daily, sometimes hourly bases. You would have to have pigeon shit for brains to not understand what the people involved were reporting read the numbered lists in the enclosed link to the one of many articles on Hungary and the Jews and the shocking and pointless transports of all the Hungarian Jews, babies, grandmothers and the disabled.to Auschwitz. This sort kills two birds with one stone.
-Tte transport of 475,000 Jews in 4 months to Auschwitz was pointless. A waste of resources. These Jews could not provide any labour for the Reich. They posed no danger to the Germans in their locked up ghettoes. Why did Eichmann insist against Himmler’s orders to send all of the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz? For what reason? It cost a fortune and the loss of the last fuel.
– The majority of the Revisionist-Deniers have a very hard time denying the obvious, that Eichmann deliberately transported the Jews to murder them. Until the fall of the Soviet Union and the documents from Vessenmayer and the Auschwitz album main stream Revisionist like Butz insisted that only 50,000 employable Jews were sent to work for Speer in the war effort. We now know beyond doubt that was not true. The cannot answer why babies and grandmothers were transported if not for mass murder.
The below documentation proves the German obsession with murdering Jews to the very end of the war. And the main points from Holocaust deniers regarding the transports are false and they have no answer as to where the missing Jews went. There were no transports out of Auschwitz. A pants down moment for H denial. To hear them talk or write about it us like watching someone dig a hole. The Germans were not baking to go orders of pizza in the 54 ovens at AB. Lol
Not only was it pointless for Eichmann to murder all these Jews so late in the war, it was bad for Germany. Word was out that the Jews were being murdered on mass and believe me, there was no denying of what was going on. The allies threatened the Hungarians with war crimes if they did not stop the transports. Can you fathom how pointless and mindless these huge transport to a death camp were in 1944? You got to think that the Germans were psychos. The world sure did. Eichmann did a terrible disservice to his country with his spectacle of rounding the Jews for mass murder.
Read all about it day by day.
Agitation added to absurdity, surprisingly perhaps for a bot. Not only failing to answer what I have writen but yet again regurgitating the untrue
The still just plausible speculation that RFK might have been killed by a bullet from the gun ofca body guard which wasn’t meant to hit him is not a “theory” to “stand behind” beyond being a posdibility that had not been shown to be wrong. As to JFK I only ever raised an Australian detectuve’s theory for examination at an early stage if a long discussion.
He even fed me at lunch in Palo Alto before intelligent youth finally gave way to grandiose omniscience in his gathering dotage.
Total BS. Tte names are in log books along with their medical records and reason for the Euthanasia. The institutional methods for the Euthanasia was equally well documented, called the T4 program. And yes it was a program copied to murder Jews in vans at Chelemno also well documented and executed by the same staff from the German T 4 program. John Wear wrote an extensive article on the Euthanasia of the disabled Germans. The negative response by the church and families forced Hitler to stop.
Yes, that’s the one. I knew someone here had brought it to my attention five or six years ago, but didn’t remember who it was, so thanks!
I actually just watched it again a couple of days ago, along with the others that same fellow had created, and just as you say, the content material he provided was very strong.
This is from a secret discussion between French and Russian officers—General de Boisdeffre and General Nikolai Nikolayevich Obruchev—in the summer of 1891:
Kennan, G. F. (1984). The Fateful Alliance: France, Russia, and the coming of the First World War. United Kingdom: Pantheon Books.
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These discussions were part of a long process, extending several years, which also included the French foreign office and Russian diplomats. But they show that recovering Alsace-Lorraine was a very high priority to the French army, and several key French politicians. Recovering that territory had become somewhat mythical in French propaganda. And the group of French “war hawks” believed that with Russia on one side, and Britain on the other side, both against Germany, then finally France could obtain that objective. This is why France did nothing to deescalate the situation. It was because they had locked up Russia into a military alliance going back nearly 20 years and had poured money into increasing Russian war fighting capability. By 1914, everyone expected Russia’s army to be the most decisive force in a European war. France also helped build the Serbian army with loans, which had big consequences. And France worked very hard at getting Britain to secretly agree to come in on their side against Germany, in the event war broke out.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying that France had sole responsibility for starting WWI; there is blame to go around and German statesmen could’ve made better decisions. Failing to secure an entente with Britain was Germany’s big mistake, before both wars. But I at least don’t see Germany as main culprit here. France had a clear objective in forming an anti-German alliance and had steadily worked towards that objective for 20 years.
This odd habit of referring to yourself in the third person is called ‘illeism’ apparently. The Walter Mittyesque ‘history’ gives it a further bizarre touch.
‘Plausible’ that a bullet fired from point-blank range might not have been intended? From a ‘guard’ who was a notorious hater of the Kennedys? No more night-time ‘tonic’ for you, Ooze.
What is it with your obsession with Unz? And all your sad and bathetic attempts to assume a position of moral and intellectual superiority, and your condescending blather of crude accusatory projection. As for judging you by your ‘product’-that would be like choosing the Champion bull by the size of his droppings, and their aroma.
I know practically nothing of history, so my comment has the only intention of learning, from you or anyone else.
All the things you say refer to Hitler’struggle for power before 1933. I don’t see how they make sense in connection to the discussion of Hitler’s actions *after* he rose to power. Applying common sense, Hitler’s focus after he became Germany’s leader would naturally shift to the more destabilizing segments of Germany. That would mean the Communists, not the Social Democrats.
You write: “The majority of the Revisionist-Deniers have a very hard time denying the obvious, that Eichmann deliberately transported the Jews to murder them.”
My response: Eichmann did not deliberately transport Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz-Birkenau to murder them. I document how I know this in my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/15/2/8214.
You write: “And the main points from Holocaust deniers regarding the transports are false and they have no answer as to where the missing Jews went. There were no transports out of Auschwitz. A pants down moment for H denial.”
My response: We have been over this before.
Pages 391-395 of Carlo Mattogno’s book “Dr. Miklos Nyiszli: An Auschwitz Doctor’s Eyewitness Account” list the names of many Hungarian Jewish children who were still at Auschwitz when the Soviets liberated the camp on January 27, 1945. Pages 396-407 of this book also list the names of twins who were at Auschwitz when the Soviets liberated the camp, although this list does not specify the country of origin of the twins. The link to this book is at https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/37-aadea.pdf. If Germans were murdering Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau, why did they let these Jewish children survive their internment at Auschwitz-Birkenau?
A quick scan of the internet shows other Jews who were transported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau and survived the war. For example, at https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/auschwitz-survivors-70-years-laters/5/, we see some young Jewish children who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. One of these is Susan Pollock, who was transported from her home in Hungary to Auschwitz, and was later liberated by British forces at Belsen.
Josef Perl was a young Jew who survived the camps of Auschwitz, Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Gross-Rosen, Balkenhain, Hirschberg and Buchenwald after the Hungarians took over control of his town in 1938 after Germany signed a peace treaty with Hungary. The Hungarians took over the administration of the area in which Perl lived, under German orders.
We also have the case of Zofia Wareluk, who was born in Auschwitz two weeks before the camp was liberated. Her mother was sent to Auschwitz when she was four months pregnant.
Nicholas (Miklós) Hammer is a Hungarian Jew who survived Birkenau. (See https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/nicholas-hammer-37370.html).
The Ovitz family was a family of Hungarian Jewish actors/traveling musicians originating from present Romania, who survived imprisonment at the Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovitz_family).
Irene Fogel Weiss stated: “So in the spring of 1944 my family – my parents and their six children, the oldest of whom was 17 and I was 13 – found ourselves in the Munkács ghetto and from there being taken on cattle carts to Auschwitz in Nazi-occupied Poland.” (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/tales-from-auschwitz-survivor-stories).
Gisella Perl is another Hungarian Jew who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisella_Perl).
Lily Ebert, a 98 year old Hungarian Jew, also survived Auschwitz-Birkenau (See https://www.newsweek.com/auschwitz-holocaust-survivor-celebrate-98-birthday-nazi-jews-concentration-camp-1664053).
Edith Eger was another Hungarian Jew who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. (See https://www.history.com/news/auschwitz-holocaust-survivors-stories).
If you care to, you can also watch the film “The Last Days”, the winner of the 1999 Academy Award for best documentary feature. James Moll’s film, a profile of survival against all odds, is presented by Steven Spielberg and the USC Shoah Foundation. It traces the lives of a handful of Hungarian Jews who survived the “Holocaust”. (See https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-last-days-hungary-and-the-holocaust/).
Among the survivors in this film are Irene Zisblatt of Polena, Renee Firestone of Ungvar, Alice Lok Cahana of Sarvar, Bill Basch of Szaszovo, and Tom Lantos of Budapest. Interestingly, Lantos went on to become the first and only “Holocaust” survivor to be elected to the U.S. Congress.
Even some mainstream Jewish historians acknowledge that many Hungarian Jews survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. For example, Robert Abzug writes that thousands of Jews were sent from Auschwitz to Mauthausen in December 1944:
“As with the other camps, conditions at Mauthausen began to get even worse after 1943 with the movement of prisoners west from Poland. Mauthausen, because of the geographical proximity of Hungary, was particularly affected by the late but efficient roundup of the country’s Jews. Especially after the evacuation of Auschwitz in December 1944, the Nazis sent thousands of Hungarian Jews to Mauthausen and its sub-camps.” (Source: Abzug, Robert H., Inside the Vicious Heart, New York: Oxford University Press, 1985, p. 107).
Thanks there’s a lot of inherent credibility there which I don’t know enough about to test with sufficiently knowledgeable and pertinent questions to avoid being irritating. I can easily imagine a gungho gang of revanchist senior officers having too much influence though there coild have been sensibly prudent politicians or fonctionnaires like members of the Grands Corps de l’Etat such as Inspecteurs des Finance who had a calming influence.
Given the lack of understanding of Russian military weeakness before the February 2022 invasion of Ukraine it is not hard to believe that the French, despite the Russo-Japanese War, overestimated the military strength of Russia.
I looked it up, Pretzel. I have no doubt that, in general, England/France viewed the Soviets/Bolsheviks as a danger to Europe. There is no way those in government were unaware of collectivism/starvation/property seizures/Gulags, i.e., the fruits of communism/marxism. Yet, they allied themselves with Russia, and basically handed over Eastern Europe in order to thwart Germany/Hitler, who, despite what you say, never proclaimed a desire to dominate all of Europe by force prior to the inevitability of a European war.
Allies? While the Agreement may have been a surprise to the average citizen, who was spoon-fed whatever the officials wanted the media to relay, that Agreement was nothing more than an attempt to stall, or buy time, or perhaps agree to live peacefully, if possible. But, why speculate? –
Berlin, Reichstag — Speech of October 6, 1939
[…]… I already declared that Russia was organized on principles which differ from those held in Germany. However, since it became clear that Stalin found nothing in the Russian-Soviet principles which should prevent him from cultivating friendly relations with States of a different political creed… The Soviet Union is the Soviet Union, National Socialist Germany is National Socialist Germany.
But one thing is certain: from the moment when the two States mutually agreed to respect each other’s distinctive regime and principles, every reason for any mutually hostile attitude had disappeared. Long periods in the history…has shown… two largest States in Europe were never happier than when they lived in friendship with each other. The Great War,…. was disastrous for both countries.
It is easy to understand that the capitalist States of the West are interested today in playing off these two States and their principles against each other. For this purpose, and until it is realized, they certainly regard the Soviet Union as a sufficiently respectable partner for the conclusion of a useful military pact.
Months ago I stated in the Reichstag that the conclusion of the German-Russian non-aggression pact marked the turning point in the whole German foreign policy…
[…] For many years imaginary aims were attributed to Germany’s foreign policy….insolent journalists in countries which rule over 40,000,000 square kilometers state Germany is aspiring to world domination!
German-Russian agreements should prove immensely comforting to these worried sponsors of universal liberty, for do they not show most emphatically that their assertions as to Germany’s aiming at domination of the Urals, the Ukraine, Rumania, etc., are only excrescences of their own unhealthy warlord fantasy?… it is true Germany’s decision is irrevocable, namely in her intention to see peaceful, stable, and thus tolerable conditions introduced on her eastern frontiers….. The two States are resolved to prevent problematic conditions arising between them which contain germs of internal unrest…
Germany and the Soviet Union have therefore clearly defined the boundaries of their own spheres of interest….
The end.
Hitler in the later Mannerheim recording: “Molotov makes demands with clear intent to rule Europe.”
On the subject of Allies – how loyal was England to her French ally? Did Russia break its treaty with Japan? Was Eisenhower loyal to his best General – Patton? Was SLBFDR loyal to 500,000 American men/boys? Today, is Israel the greatest ally of the USA? What has Israel/Jews done to show their appreciation for what the U.S. has done for them? Can you name one benefit to the U.S. as a result of allyship with Israel/Jews? The same goes for Europe.
British hopes for a victory also hinged on SLBFDR, Lend-Lease, American troops…of course, today we find all sorts of information that reveals the veracity of Hitler’s claims/warnings:
France24:
“De Gaulle wanted first and foremost to re-establish France’s sovereignty, and that meant getting the Americans out,” Grimaldi said.
His anti-American tendencies were echoed by France’s Communist Party, which wielded tremendous postwar influence thanks to its role in the Resistance.
The communists regularly reminded voters in the post-war period of the Red Army’s contribution. But Soviet repression behind the Iron Curtain steadily eroded support for them….
The Allies intent was to crush Hitler’s National Socialist Germany before it was obvious to the entire world that he was correct about organized Jewry as the same side of the Vulture Capitalism/Communism coin, and they chose to do this by any means necessary, including subsidizing one of the most brutal regimes in history, and unlike Hitler, who admitted his error in making a deal with/underestimating the Devil, and subsequently facing the foe head-on, the Allies left Eastern Europe/half of Germany stripped and ruined; they then whined about an Iron Curtain, which they surely helped to sew and unfurl; they then permitted the rise of anti-Gentile/anti-European factions to rise and infiltrate every existing European-blooded nation, and here we are, circling the drain, because we fought the wrong enemy, and because, apparently, WE are our own worst enemy.
Jews within the Bolsheviks never operated as an ethnic faction at any time. The myth that they somehow did was promoted by White propaganda simply as a way of dodging the reality that the vast majority of Russians supported a revolution. One can very well argue that many Russians would have preferred a revolution led by Mensheviks like Julius Martov and Social Revolutionaries like Abram Gots. But it was always clear that in any situation where Russians were forced to choose between Bolshevism or counter-revolution, the victory would go to Lenin. This was not the result of any especially tight bonds among Jews, but simply reflected the fact that Russians wanted a revolution. The Whites refused to see this and carried out coups against any popular alternative to the Bolsheviks. Inevitably, they lost and Lenin won.
Rambling about the Khazars obviously is an example of an unrelated subject. More than that, in regard to what one may wish to make of the Holocaust stories, he gives no argument. It could be different if he had written a book which attempted to summarize actual intelligence data that he had dealt in and which he was permitted to disclose. But he does not. Again, for a standard of comparison, see Philip Agee:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee
—–
Philip Burnett Franklin Agee (/ˈeɪdʒi/; January 19, 1935 – January 7, 2008)[1] was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) case officer and writer of the 1975 book, Inside the Company: CIA Diary,[2] detailing his experiences in the CIA. Agee joined the CIA in 1957, and over the following decade had postings in Washington, D.C., Ecuador, Uruguay and Mexico. After resigning from the Agency in 1968, he became a leading opponent of CIA practices.[2][3][4] A co-founder of the CounterSpy and CovertAction series of periodicals, he died in Cuba in January 2008.[5]
—–
That’s what it means for an author to actually use their past intelligence career as a source of information for a later publication. Beaty was simply invoking his past career for credentials, without providing anything of substance from it.
> Absolutely all the public statements by Hitler and the Nazis pointed to the terrible menace of Jewish-dominated Soviet Communism
No, that’s only vaguely true in the most hazy ideological way. A classic technique of propaganda is to merge multiple themes together: “Trotskyite,” “Fascist,” “Kulak,” “Counter-revolutionary,” “Imperialist,” ad infinitum. It may be impossible for an outside audience to know which is being referred to any given time, and statements can be reinterpreted at any time that is convenient. This was widely practiced in both the Third Reich and the Soviet Union during the 1930s.
When Hitler says something like on March 23, 1933, before the Reichstag:
“The splitting up of the nation into groups with irreconcilable views, systematically brought about by the false doctrines of Marxism, means the destruction of the basis of a possible communal life.”
— Norman Baynes, Hitler Speeches, p. 666.
That is directed not at the Communists but at the Social Democrats. It’s also a bogus claim. It is worth emphasizing that if the Social Democrats had simply dissolved in the summer of 1914, then it is likely that one would have seen disorganized strikes and mutinies breaking out in 1916 all across Germany. The Social Democrats played an important role in keeping the war-machine going, It was like the way that in 2002 many Democrat-voters were hoping to see some opposition to the Bush-drive for war in Iraq. But then the Democrats threw in the towel to Bush and things went ahead anyway.
But the ideological worldview which Hitler had picked up from George Schoenerer in Austria maintained that all such class conflict as the Social Democrats had organized around could be dispensed with as a trick by Jews and Slavs for dividing the Aryan race. This was an ideological program which was not driven by a specific response to the formation of the Soviet Union and the Communist International, but instead aimed at a much earlier time when the early labor movement began to organize workers as a distinct class apart from the bourgeoisie and the landed estates. No careful examination of the range of NSDAP-publications could ever lead an impartial investigator to think that Hitler was mainly propelled by reaction against the newer movement that had only started to gain traction in 1917.
> Perhaps that’s true to an extent, but ending a competing empire is different than ending all capitalist states and absorbing their people into your ideological world system.
The historical record shows that rival imperialists are far more likely to create an actual war. The USSR was able to go through around 45 years of Cold War without this ever breaking out into a hot war. It’s difficult to imagine that being the case with most of the older monarchical dynasties. People like Franz Joseph, Wilhelm II and Nicholas II were much more prone towards launching steps which would initiate a war. Not, of course, out of any grand plan of world conquest. But simply recklessness.
Lenin had always stated clearly that he expected that the revolution which he was beginning would eventually spread across the globe. At the same time, it was clear that he took a very patient long-term view of this. From his talk with Raymond Robins in early 1918:
—–
Colonel Robins, we look with confidence at the future. You may destroy us in Russia. You may destroy the Russian revolution in Russia. It will make no difference. A hundred years ago the monarchies of Britain, Prussia, Austria, Russia, overthrew the government of revolutionary France. They restored a monarch, who was called a legitimate monarch, to power in Paris. But they could not stop, and they did not stop, the middle-class political revolution, the revolution of middle-class democracy, which had been started at Paris by the men of the French Revolution of 1789. They could not save feudalism. Every system of feudal aristocratic social control in Europe was destined to be destroyed by the political democratic social control worked out by the French Revolution. Every system of political democratic social control in the world to-day is destined to be destroyed by the economic producers’ social control worked out by the Russian revolution. Colonel Robins, you do not believe it. I have to wait for events to convince you. You may see foreign bayonets parading across Russia. You may see the Soviets, and all the leaders of the Soviets, killed.
—–
— William Hard, Raymond Robins’ Own Story, pp. 162-3.
So, there Lenin is telling us that his vision of the future is compatible with the possibility that his own government may overrun and executed. It’s very much like Christian visionaries who would admit to the possibility that their land may be overrun by Muslims for a time, but their cause will out in the end. Things like this are so far-reaching that they say nothing about real practical politics in the here and now.
It should be noted that Lenin showed himself quite willing to use military measures in places where there was no likely risk, such as in Mongolia and Georgia. China and Turkey were the obvious potential rivals to Russia in these regions, but these states were weak in 1918-22 and there was no real risk in taking over a neighboring small country. In 1920, Lenin allowed himself to be bamboozled by Polish Communists who reassured him that the Polish working classes were ready to revolt. Despite advice by Radek and Trotsky that it would be reckless to attempt to advance into Poland, he allowed himself to think that the Red Army would be greeted by the Polish proletariat. He backtracked when he saw that this was an illusion. Really, there’s nothing which suggests that the particular ideological view of Soviet authorities made them more reckless about starting wars. On balance, they were usually more careful than most older forms of authority had been.
Thanks. And let’s not forget the blueprint for US/UK global conquest in three easy steps linked below and which was published and widely distributed in the United States in 1853. Those three steps were 1) US and UK rapprochement so as to form a practically unbeatable united front 2) The newly formed US/UK united front moves against Germany to conquer it, and in the process unleashes a future ‘world’s war’ upon the Earth 3) And the final end of history war between the US and Russia, in which the US is to prevail thanks to it’s indomitable air force.
This book is now effectively blacklisted. I wonder why?
Anyhow, as you say, ‘there is blame to go around’.
https://archive.org/details/newrome00poes/page/7/mode/1up
Happy Kwanza, Franny! Speaking of Kwanza, how are things in Baltimore these days?
Speaking of Kwanzaa/Baltimore/Useful Idiots, see the 35 second spiel below, from Daniel, about Nazi atrocities….note the cut-out in the wall of the “bunker” and the cabinets of Nazi atrocity records…I wonder where the files in the eastern European camps disappeared to?
I find it interesting that Idiot Daniel, from England, uses the term we when describing who held prisoners at the camp.
It’s too bad he/they missed León Bronstein; Lazar Kaganovich; Naftaly Frenkel; Aron Soltz; Ilya Ehrenburg; Bela Kun, and Matyas Rakosi; Erno Gero; Ana Pauker; Moshe Pijade; Roman Zumbrowski, Rudolf Slansky…all these Eastern Europeans ruling over Eastern Europe….was it Shangri-La?
Nothing which you’ve cited about the Franco-Russian alliance alters the fact that German war plans left no room for a war with Russia that did not begin with an attack on France. The Schlieffen Plan was specifically premised on the idea that the first theater of war would be in France, and all German war plans in 1914 reflected this.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Schlieffen-Plan
—–
Schlieffen wished to emulate Hannibal by provoking an Entscheidungsschlacht (“decisive battle”), using a massive force, in a single act, to bring a swift and conclusive victory. He decided that France was the enemy to be defeated first, with Russia held off until the French were annihilated. His plan called for four army groups, called the Bataillon Carré, to mass on the extreme German right. That northernmost force would consist of 5 cavalry divisions, 17 infantry corps, 6 Ersatzkorps (replacement corps), and a number of Landwehr (reserve) and Landsturm (men over the age of 45) brigades. Those forces were to wheel south and east after passing through neutral Belgium, turning into the flanks and rear of the hardened French defenses along the German border. After crossing the Somme west of Paris at Abbeville and Chaulnes, the main body of the Bataillon Carré would turn to engage the defenders of the French capital, with the Ersatzkorps lending support. The central group—consisting of six infantry corps, Landwehr brigades, and a cavalry division—was to attack the French at La Feré and Paris, eventually encircling the capital on the north and east. The third group would concentrate on the most-southern right wing, with eight corps, five reserve corps, and Landwehr brigades, with the help of two mobile cavalry divisions. The last group consisted of three cavalry divisions, three infantry corps, two Ersatzkorps, and a reserve corps on the left wing. That last group was to block any French attempt to counterattack, and it could be detached and transported to the extreme right if necessary. The Upper Rhine to the Swiss border and the Lower Alsace were to be defended by Landwehr brigades.
—–
This type of plan simply allowed no room for a Russo-German war which did not involve France.
If one simply refers to the wave of arrests which came after January 30, 1933, no one disputes that the KPD (Communists) was the target of the first wave and that the SPD (Social Democrats) were targeted in the later waves. That, of course, is a very different issue from claiming that somehow Hitler’s ideological worldview was driven by a response to the Communists. Statements like that of May 10, 1933, in Berlin:
—–
I regard it as my task before posterity to destroy Marxism, and that is no empty phrase but a solemn oath… We see in Marxism the enemy of our people which we shall root out, and destroy without mercy.
—–
— Baynes, p. 667.
Should be seen as directed as the whole legacy of the Social Democrats from the late 19th century onward, rather than as primarily a concern about the Communist International. The Comintern was actually in a great state of confusion at this time because they had taken the attitude it would be good for Hitler to seize power and crush the Social Democrats. They were waiting to this to now bring on the uprising of the German proletariat as the Social Democrats were banned. It was only in 1935 that the Comintern turned around and concluded that they needed to seek political alliances against Hitler, including with the Social Democrats.
You should be embarrassed to write this post. It reads like someone’s memoirs of a past life, than anything representing the current known facts and quandary concerning the fate of the Hungarian Jews. None of you deniers can answer the now known facts. You sound like a crazy person trying by naming 25 Jews that survived. So what?
The transport and destruction of the Hungarian Jews was a world event. It was not executed in a vacuum like other operations of Jewish destruction were during the war. Which occurred in obscurity and secrecy.
There is the main question of “ why” the round up, ghettoization , and transport of the Hungarian Jews to AB with such speed and ferocity that it appeared as an obsession to those around Eichmann. Why did the fate of the Jews become the primary focus of Eichmann after the occupation of Germany? The Germans received nothing in return. It was a waste of time and resources, that could have better been used in the war effort. The destruction of Hungarian Jewry was a net zero sum game for Germany.
Any responsible person would have to ask why? An answer like that is what the Germans did transport Jews to camps is not sufficient. The Germans transported Jews to camps for labor and the eventual resettlement of the Jews outside of Europe. Both of these results were null and void in 1944. There was nowhere’s to resettle the Jews. That entire concept was out the window as Russia was moving closer. The Jews that were transported could in no way help in the war effort and were just utilizing precious resources. What could a baby or grandmother do for Germany?
Unlike 1940 thru 1943 when Germany was big powerful and spreading, the world was getting pretty small for the Germans in 1944. So again you have to ask why a normal German war bureaucrat would engage in such a pointless folly.
The transportation of the Hungarian Jews was a world spectacle Sweden set up safe houses, countries as far away as Australia tried to intervene. The Pope tried to stop it and Hungarian officials were told they would face war crimes if the transports did not stop.
How stupid do you think people are John you think you can mass murder 350,00 Jews in a few months and people were not going to notice? People knew people who were transported never to be heard from again entire villages disappeared overnight.
So why did Eichmann risk everything to transport and murder all of those Jews knowing it would harm Germany and set them up as the biggest mass murders of non combatants in history. The Hungarian Jews once they were in their ghettos within eight weeks of the German occupation were zero threat to Germany. Zero.
You have no other answer other than Eichmann wanted to take down as many Jews as he could till the very last day. That is what he said. Why don’t you believe him?
> Yet, they allied themselves with Russia
At a time when everyone that the USSR was about to fall and leave Hitler with undisputed dominance over Europe.
—–
Churchill’s approach in private was not so straightforward–as his guest at Chequers on the weekend of the German attack on the Soviet Union had already discovered… How are we to make sense of Churchill’s behaviour and to reconcile his private and public utterances during this seminal weekend? Perhaps the most important point is that he believed, as did his military advisers, that the Soviet Union would ‘assuredly be defeated.’
—–
— David Carlton, Churchill and the Soviet Union, pp. 84-5.
When it looked at is if Hitler overrunning the continent was almost guaranteed, then people shifted to an alliance with the USSR. A few years later, Churchill tried to flip things again and called Operation Unthinkable. But at that point the whole country was simply exhausted. Obviously, this would have been avoided if Hitler had simply respected the Munich Agreement of 1938 and never marched across Czechia.
Let’s allow for a comparison between Boisdeffre and Schlieffen. Boisdeffre was made to resign at the turn of century.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_International_Encyclop%C3%A6dia/Boisdeffre,_Raoul_Fran%C3%A7ois_Charles_le_Mouton_de
—–
At the trial of Emile Zola (1898), during the Dreyfus agitation, he appeared full-uniformed in court, and in a much-applauded address to the jury, affirmed the existence of a third secret document incriminating the accused officer. When subsequently it transpired, through the confession of Lieutenant-Colonel Henry, that the document to which he had referred in good faith was a forgery, he tendered his resignation.
—–
Schlieffen also ended up leaving office, after having insisted on a war against France.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Schlieffen-Plan
—–
Schlieffen insisted on an immediate attack on France in 1905 as a “preventive war,” arguing that Russia had just been defeated by the Japanese and France was involved in a crisis in Morocco. German Emperor William II and his chancellor, Bernhard von Bülow, believed that Great Britain’s alliance with Japan would lead to an encirclement of Germany and were cautious of such an attack. Rebuffed, Schlieffen responded with belligerence, and he was dismissed.
—–
So, who is more relevant? You could argue that Schlieffen’s dismissal means that his advocacy for a war on France in 1905 makes him irrelevant. Then again, it was his military plan which remained in force in 1914 and determined the German decision to attack France as the first move in the war. If that’s not relevant, then Boisdeffre’s resignation would seem to make him irrelevant by the same standard.
What is really your point, though?
If we establish that,
1) at the very least, the USSR was not likely to engage in a war that would result in a significant retaliatory strike by the USA, or an organization such as NATO,
we still have these other problems:
2) the USSR was an enemy that could never really be trusted. Not only did it continuously lie about its own domestic and foreign operations, it funded or supported international communist parties (even after 1943) and always had the potential to engage in limited ‘quick wins’ warfare such as Spain 1936-7 and Korea 1950.
3) having amicable relations with the USSR essentially meant covering up for all their ‘crimes’ and oppression. For example, there’s not much chance America could’ve had good relations with the Soviet Union after it presented the truth of the Katyn massacre. Just exposing what was going on in the Soviet Union was essentially ending good public relations with the Soviet Union.
If the big deal here is that American statesmen or military advisors inflated the likelihood of an imminent massive Soviet strike in the late 1940s… okay, is your complaint that the Cold War was overly militaristic? Maybe it was. But there never could’ve been good long-term relations between the two countries anyway. The siege mentality of Stalin meant that he always imagined “imminent attack” where there was none. Back in the early 1930s, he imagined Poland and Romania invading Russia with Britain as the mastermind. He even imagined Britain coordinating an invasion with Japan as its proxy. Before WWII, always it was Britain as the big enemy lurking in the shadows. He would’ve thought the same thing about America after WWII.
This is from Roosevelt’s Lost Alliances, page 203:
You see what’s going on there? It’s Stalin telling FDR what to do, which is sell the American public a pack of nonsense. I think the author actually criticizes FDR for not investing more in Soviet propaganda, but FDR did at least attempt to do that… which destroyed U.S. credibility and firmly established a precedent of deception. In Eastern Europe, eventually people were going to be rounded up, property was going to be confiscated, show trials would happen, imprisonments and executions to follow… and FDR knew that. He also knew that these actions had nothing to do with the “historical Russian empire.”
American diplomats would’ve always had to compromise themselves, as Joseph E. Davies did and FDR did. You couldn’t talk about the famines honestly, you couldn’t talk about the forced collectivization honestly, you couldn’t talk about the show trials honestly, you couldn’t talk about any of the negative things honestly, and there were many negative things.
So, I don’t understand what grave injustice America committed, other than aligning with the Soviet Union at all. It’s really the Soviet Union that treated everyone else like they had the plague. Stalin killed citizens for being too much in contact with foreigners, like they were contaminated with “counterrevolutionary” ideas. The man most responsible for establishing successful contact with American industrialists, and therefore a man who was greatly responsible for jumpstarting Soviet industry, was eventually arrested in killed in the 1930s. And there were many such cases. I’m surprised that Litvinov lasted longer than Stalin, because on paper he was a prime candidate for a forced confession and execution.
Don’t pose as quarter witted. You are at least half witted and could have at least read and quoted what I wrote which was that the bullet – possibly – wasn’t meant to hit Kennedy who was no doubt moving in reaction to being shot at by Sirhan.
Okay, so what? The Franco-Russian alliance meant that Germany was going to be at war with both countries, since they both would declare war on Germany as soon as either one mobilized. That means Germany had to prepare to fight a two front war once Russia mobilized. Your big complaint is that, even though Russian mobilization effectively triggered German and French mobilization… Germany still started WWI because it should’ve only attacked Russia? These are just haphazard criticisms coming from an anti-German armchair general. It’s not even worth responding to.
Thanks. In fact your earlier comment (#803) was a very good laying out of the facts.
I was browsing through a book chapter called “Jews and the Left”, by one Jack Jacobs. It contains very useful information. The author seems to have quite the same view as you and much of the information contained in that article was familiar to me through reading your comments. The overrepresentation of Jews voting for — and in the leadership of — leftist parties is commented on, and, in the case of Germany, he opines, very reasonably, that
I remember that you pointed out exactly the same phenomenon in pre-revolutionary Russia. Whites, through their foolish actions, forced Jews to support the left.
But then we come to the following statistic:
I can accept your explanation for Jews joining the Left in Germany and Russia as the product of antisemitism or other oppressive circumstances, but in the United States, a liberal country, after a war in which the U.S. fought and defeated Jews’s greatest enemy, it may be somewhat perplexing that so many Jews would want to topple a regime which favored them so greatly. Maybe when they thought of an ally, the Soviet Union, who also fought against Hitler, and admittedly longer and harder than the U.S. did, loomed larger in their minds.
I suppose that the majority of immigrants to America, Jews or otherwise, were moderates, but, still, a noisy minority can make a big difference on the political life of a country.
Here’s the link for the book chapter I quoted from, which perhaps is also available on Sci-Hub.
Jews and the Left
by Jack Jacobs
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-history-of-judaism/jews-and-the-left/38EE87CF1AC54CBCB3C56256E712B71B
You write: “The Germans transported Jews to camps for labor and the eventual resettlement of the Jews outside of Europe. Both of these results were null and void in 1944. There was nowhere’s to resettle the Jews. That entire concept was out the window as Russia was moving closer. ”
My response: Actually, there were numerous places available to resettle the Jews.
I will quote from page 466 of the book “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp”:
“Of approximately 438,000 Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz from May 15 to July 9, 1944, about 10 percent were determined to be fit for labor. Some were retained to work in Auschwitz itself; the remainder were dispersed to 386 camps in the Nazi empire. The largest groups were concentrated in the notorious camps of Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Gross-Rosen, Gunskirchen, Mauthausen, Neuengamme, Ravensbruck, and Sachenhausen. Like Auschwitz, several of those camps had subcamps.”
So, we have 386 camps where the Hungarian Jews could have been sent. I will now use Wikipedia to determine how many sub-camps existed to the camps listed in this paragraph:
1. Bergen-Belsen–“Bergen-Belsen concentration camp had three satellite camps.”
2. Buchenwald–“About 136 subcamps and satellite commandos belonged to Buchenwald concentration camp.”
3. Dachau–“Dachau alone had more than 30 large subcamps, and hundreds of smaller ones.”
4. Gross-Rosen–“At its peak activity in 1944, the Gross-Rosen complex had up to 100 subcamps.”
5. Mauthausen–“By the end of the war, the list included 101 camps (including 49 major subcamps).”
6. Neuengamme–“Neuengamme was a network of Nazi concentration camps in Northern Germany that consisted of the main camp, Neuengamme, and more than 85 satellite camps.”
7. Ravensbrück–“Ravensbrück had 70 sub-camps used for slave labor that were spread across an area from the Baltic Sea to Bavaria.”
8. Sachenhausen–Wikipedia lists 70 subcamps at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_subcamps_of_Sachsenhausen.
So, we can add to the 386 number of main camps the following number of sub-camps: 3 + 136 + 30 + 100 + 101 + 85 + 70 + 70 equals a total of 981 camps and sub-camps. Of course, the number of sub-camps listed here are only from eight of the major camps. There were many more German sub-camps where the Jewish Hungarian children could have been sent.
I hope this helps. There were obviously numerous German camps and sub-camps where the Hungarian Jews could have been sent after being transited through Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Just about this:
“In 1949, it has been alleged, approximately half of those in the American Communist Party were Jews.”
You should bear in mind that by 1949, the CPUSA was in decline. During the 1930s, the party played a major role in organizing union battles. They were instructed by Moscow to take a friendly attitude towards Roosevelt, since Stalin did not want the latter replaced by someone further to the Right. So, the CPUSA managed to fit its way into the New Deal coalition as a junior partner of sorts. That lasted through the war.
After the war was over, you very quickly had people like Elizabeth Bentley who came forward to the FBI on November 7, 1945. Trade unions were now very well incorporated into the political body, and there wasn’t such a need for Communist Party members to act as organizers. The CPUSA’s membership is supposed to have peaked at 75,000 in 1947 and then dropped to 5,000 by the mid-fifties, with 1500 of the latter being FBI informants. How many there were in 1949 is something I can’t find off the bat, but you can be sure that the decline was well underway by then.
When the party shrank that fast, it is to be expected that the remaining ones will be quirky types of one kind or another. There undoubtedly were some who had gone so far out on a limb in praising the USSR as an ally prior to 1945 that it would have been pointless to walk back. I can believe that this would have included a high percentage of Jews. But this doesn’t really mean much in the context of the party’s decline from 1947 onward.
Why were they going to the expense of transporting non employable Jews anywhere in 1944?
You can never answer the prime question why transport non employable Jews from a ghetto in 1944 when you could not care for them?
In 1939, everyone thought the USSR was about to fall? To whom, Pretzel? To Finland? To Lithuania?
So…the Soviets/Bolsheviks assassinate the Russian aristocracy; they inflict mass terror/collectivization/starvation/property & asset theft within their own realm, upon their own citizens, and the Nazis, who brought prosperity to their realm; who offered cooperation to other nations; who said outright the Versailles Treaty was to be diplomatically upended, and about which there was nearly a universal consensus that the aforementioned treaty was unjust, and in so doing they removed the Jewish tentacles from banking, academia, media, etc., …..and the question for the western powers was – whom do we choose?
I’ll tell you how – he was a whiskey/brandy swilling swine of a pathetic man, who knew what the Bolsheviks/Soviets/International Jewry were up to and what they would do, but he Loved War! and apparently thrived amongst the ensuing chaos and attention/fame, and he was indebted to money-interests…..what other possible explanation is there for his earlier statements about the destruction wrought by organized Jewry/Bolshevism, and the good fortune of Germany to have their Fuhrer? It’s really not that difficult to draw a conclusion.
They believed the Germans would defeat the Soviet Union? But, you previously said they believed that Germany/Russia were allies. Which is it, Pretzel? Do allies prepare for war with each other? So, we’re back to the question of – who was better for Europe? The terrorist, communist, blood-thirsty nation, rife with spiteful, vengeful, revolutionary Jews, who hated Gentiles/Christians, or the genteel nation of blue-eyed blondes…the land of Beethoven, Wagner (? Fran left him out for some reason), Bach, Goethe…who incidentally proclaimed Jews to be a danger to Germany/Europe, banking systems, media, culture…? I just can’t imagine why this was a difficult choice.
Pretzel, you make this ridiculous assertion all the time – if only the world would have capitulated to whatever Lenin/Stalin/Bolsheviks wanted for Europe, then the World To Come would be that much nearer – what’s wrong with you? The Finns were wrong, the Poles were wrong (or at least the Poles taken to Katyn Forest), the Germans were wrong to attempt to control/manage their own country, the Gulags were not so bad, the English/French were clueless, no one really believed the BS spouted by SLBFDR, and Hitler Fooled Everyone!
HistoryIreland:
Britain went to war with Germany in defence of Poland, but the Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland was actually welcomed by Winston Churchill in a radio broadcast on 1 October 1939:
‘Russia has pursued a cold policy of self-interest. We could have wished that the Russian armies should be standing on their present line as the friends and allies of Poland instead of as invaders. But that the Russian armies should stand on this line was clearly necessary for the safety of Russia against the Nazi menace. I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest. It cannot be in accordance with the interests or the safety of Russia that Germany should plant itself upon the shores of the Black Sea, or that it should overrun the Balkan states and subjugate the Slavonic peoples of south-eastern Europe. That would be contrary to the historic life-interests of Russia.’
Consistency was never Churchill’s strong point, and a few weeks later he was urging Anglo-French intervention in the Soviet war with Finland….
Stalin hoped that this collaboration [with Germany] would last a long time— long enough for him to prepare the country’s defences against a possible German attack. Stalin saw war with Hitler possible, even likely, but not inevitable.
The end.
Apparently, Churchill fooled Ireland, too. Neither England, nor France, intended to defend Poland from Germany, and their assurances no doubt compelled Poland to resist a diplomatic solution, and no one in their right mind would invade Russia, considering the terrain, weather, water, lack of navigable roads/rails, etc, without a pressing reason…how long did it take the world to realize how strong militarily the Soviets were in 1941/1942 or to wonder why the bulk of their new, improved military equipment was installed so near the border of their allies?
Still, you are correct about the Germans being the most capable force in Europe to defeat communism/Bolshevism, which is the obvious reason the western nations, who love democracy and freedom, chose Stalin. America’s greatest Shame:
RadioFree Europe:
[…] Most famously, Soviet dictator Josef Stalin raised a toast to the Lend-Lease program at the November 1943 Tehran conference with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt.
“I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war,” Stalin said. “The most important things in this war are the machines… The United States is a country of machines.
Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war.”
Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion.
“If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war,” he wrote in his memoirs. “One-on-one against Hitler’s Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me.”
The end.
This war was fought over Jewish supremacy, and you know it, Pretzel.
You ask: “Why were they going to the expense of transporting non employable Jews anywhere in 1944?”
My response: The Germans had been transporting nonemployable Jews to their camps throughout the war.
The Holocaust story claims that virtually all Jews who were too sick to work were immediately killed. The documentary evidence, however, indicates that a high percentage of the inmates at Birkenau were disabled. Oswald Pohl, in a secret report to Heinrich Himmler dated April 5, 1944, stated that there were 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz-Birkenau camp complex, of which 18,000 were unable to work. In Birkenau there were a total of 36,000 inmates, of whom “approximately 15,000 are unable to work.” (Source: Nuremberg document NO-021, NMT (The “green series”), Vol. 5, pp. 384-385).
Such high percentages of disabled inmates at Auschwitz-Birkenau are not consistent with a program of mass extermination.
Evidence also exists that the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered measures to reduce deaths of inmates due to disease. For example, on December 28, 1942, SS officer Richard Glücks, who was the head of the camp administration office, sent a directive to commandants of the concentration camps. It ordered that “…camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps…The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor sites are improved as much as possible.” The directive also stressed that “the Reichsführer SS [Heinrich Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced.” (Source: Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2, NC&A (The “red series”), Vol. 4, pp. 833-834).
So, the Germans had always transported disabled Jews to their camps throughout the war, and were committed to keeping these Jews alive. Along with about 7,000 to 8,000 additional disabled Jews, Otto Frank and Primo Levi was left behind in Auschwitz. Although the Germans could have executed Frank, Levi and the other Jews in a few days, the Germans let them survive to tell their story about Auschwitz-Birkenau. (Source: Faurison, Robert, “Witnesses to the Gas Chambers of Auschwitz,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, AL: Thesis and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 142).
My question for you Fran is: Why did the Germans leave behind 7,000 to 8,000 disabled Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau when they could have easily murdered them?
“My response: The Germans had been transporting nonemployable Jews to their camps throughout the war“
Why do that in the first place? Moreover, what was the purpose of putting them in ethnic ghettos against their will? Why were Jewish boys and girls ripped from their families?
It is these simple questions that tie you up in knots.
Apropos of this, here’s this news article from today:
Netherlands spied on Holocaust survivors
The government considered the Dutch Auschwitz Committee an extremist group and communist front
https://www.rt.com/news/589727-dutch-holocaust-survivors-surveilled-communist/
The Germans had noticed that numerous Jews and their hangers-on were either members of the partisan irregulars or supporters thereof.
The Germans did not want to kill them contrary to what Franny would have you believe, but rounded them up and put them into concentration camps and ghettos.
That is a non answer that German’s did it before. What right, under what international law, did the Germans have to seize Jewish properties, bank accounts force them at gunpoint into unsanitary ghettoes and make them wear Jewish badges, and finally forcibly transport them to camps where people dying of starvation and disease?the Hungarian Jews had to wait in the open for days waiting for trains. Who died shot like that??? Psychos !! People with zero morality. To force them on trains with no toilets food or water. Where the stench of urination could kill you.
And you boo hoo about what happened to the Germans at Nuremberg or Eichmann and his unfair seizure and trial. What authority did the Germans have to seize 800,000 law abiding Hungarian citizens, like they were garbage?
The Hungarian Jews posed zero threat to the Germans. Your posts are an embarrassment to common sense and rationale.
I understand your retreat, after insisting on being a pest — Birobidzhan may be too much for you; you may well need the pleasant island prison-farm. But you know that is so much nicer than what the mob would want, if they understood what I understand (and they’re catching on).
If you’re not a numbskull (due to the trauma-based brainwashing inflicted on you by your psycho leaders and sick culture), you’ll pay heed to your better co-ethnics.
Like this lovely young woman:
https://archive.org/details/HowIBecameASelfHatingJew
And, more importantly, to Rabbi Marvin Antelman:
And you’ll call out your criminal co-ethnics, e.g.:
https://rumble.com/v2v1jrs-blackrock-ceo-slammed-for-force-behaviors-comment-after-2017-interview-re-e.html
https://rumble.com/v3wuqgs-rabbis-anticipate-the-destruction-of-christianity-and-the-west-compilation-.html
A belated Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to you 🙂
Hitler murdered disabled Germans. If there were disabled Jews they survived because of luck, busy crematoriums outside German problems. Certainty not because the SS cared for the Jews.
The situation for the Germans in 1944 was different. A new ballgame. The camp services were breaking down. Transport to Auschwitz was not necessary. Becauseyou say that the Germans did it before does not register as an answer. It is an answer a liar who had run out of lies says.
The Germans in 1944 had life saving measures to carry out to save themselves. The Jews in Hungary were none of their business. Not German citizens. Non combatants. And the transports were ordered stopped because the world saw and the world knew that the treatment of the Jews was inhumane. They were not using the Jews for labor. They should have left them the fuck alone. They were being transported to die. Which is why 350,000 were murdered in the summer of 1944 and you can not prove otherwise. Your list of camps was a joke. No one inside the Reich was being transported anywhere in 1944. Do you understand the dire straights the German’s were in 1944. !
What right, under what rules of war did the Germans have to transport Jewish babies and mothers to a hell hole like Auschwitz? For what reason??? Again why??? To care for them??
You write: “Why do that in the first place? Moreover, what was the purpose of putting them in ethnic ghettos against their will? Why were Jewish boys and girls ripped from their families? It is these simple questions that tie you up in knots.”
My response: For a detailed answer to your questions, please read my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/14/1/8184.
You ask: “And you boo hoo about what happened to the Germans at Nuremberg or Eichmann and his unfair seizure and trial. What authority did the Germans have to seize 800,000 law abiding Hungarian citizens, like they were garbage?”
My response: Again, my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/14/1/8184 answers why Jews were sent to camps and ghettos during World War II. During war, people who are considered to be a potential threat to military operations are often put in camps. The United States put approximately 120,000 Japanese-American civilians into camps during World War II for this very reason.
Your comment #824 emphasizes and asks a lot of questions about the immorality of German actions during the war. Since you are so concerned about morality and fair treatment, I have some questions for you:
1) What right or authority did the Allies have to steal all of the real property of approximately 15 million ethnic Germans after the war? The Allies carried out the largest forced population transfer—and perhaps the greatest single movement of people—in human history. A minimum of 12 million and possibly as many as 18.1 million Germans were driven from their homes because of their ethnic background. Probably 2.1 million or more of these German expellees, mostly women and children, died in what was supposed to be an “orderly and humane” expulsion. What gave the Allies the right to do this?
2) A conservative estimate of German deaths in the Allied POW camps is 1.5 million. This includes over 517,000 POW deaths in the Soviet Union, 100,000 POW deaths in Yugoslavia, Poland and other countries, with the remaining POW deaths in U.S. and French camps. The Germans who died in these Allied POW camps suffered miserably from exposure, disease, and slow starvation. This well-documented Allied atrocity is still denied by most historians today. What right did the Allies have to conduct such murderous policies against Germans after the war?
3) An estimated 5.7 million Germans already residing in Germany died from the starvation policies implemented by the Allies after the war. What gave the Allies the right to do this?
The sum of 1.5 million German POWs, 2.1 million German expellees, and 5.7 million German residents equals the minimum estimate of 9.3 million Germans who died needlessly after the war. This is far more Germans than died during the Second World War. Millions of these Germans slowly starved to death while the Allies withheld available food. The majority of these postwar dead Germans were women, children and very old men. Their deaths have never been honestly reported by the Allies, the German government, or most historians.
Again, what gave the Allies the right to commit such atrocities after the war?
“The Germans had noticed that numerous Jews and their hangers-on were either members of the partisan irregulars or supporters thereof.”
All Jews throughout Germany and Europe? Including the elderly? What about the young kids?
“The Germans did not want to kill them contrary to what Franny would have you believe, but rounded them up and put them into concentration camps and ghettos.”
But the Nazis did round them up and killed them. A rather high number. And what gave the Nazis the right to take all of them against their will and confiscate their property?
It really is remarkable what a wide coverage ADSL briefing papers for shills have😎🤣
You said “many Jews” were hostile. But you don’t give a number, and the reasons are specious. Why not simply arrest those directly responsible for “sabotage”? Nor do you give specific reasons as to why the children of Jews were also rounded up and eventually murdered. Is it justified to take young kids and kill them for the alleged “sins” of their parents?
Like I correctly said, you get tied up on knots.
What about what the allies did? No idea? But the way the SS and Germans treated their occupied countries had a lot to do with it. A more sadistic cruel people could not be found to match the NS rolling into town. Just ask the French women. Or anyone from countries they occupied.
Germans brought it on themselves. They should have surrendered.
Your article about Jews being partisans and trouble makers is full of shit. The Jews were never tried in a court of law for crimes. You can make anything up and that is what you do. The Jews were not a country an enemy country with guns and uniforms.
You think the Hungarian Jews the grandmothers and babies were partisan dangers to the Germans.? Your work is so tiresome because it is full of lies. Eichmann in fact no one said, not one person in 1944 that the Jews needed to placed in ghettoes because they are a danger to Germany or Hungary. To the contrary. Hungarians could not defend what was happening to anyone. And Jewish partisans was the last thing Germany had to worry about in 1944.
Write about what people said at the time the transports were happening Sweden set up international houses to save Jews. You think because they were the Taliban? The pope tried to intervene. The allies threatened war crimes if the transports did not stop. Did the German’s tell the Pope, we always round the Jews up put them in ghettoes and transport them to labor camps in the most barbaric dehumanizing way because they are partisans and pose a threat to us.
Just stop. Your work is irrelevant. Counter to rationale common sense.
You write: “You said ‘many Jews’ were hostile. But you don’t give a number, and the reasons are specious. Why not simply arrest those directly responsible for ‘sabotage’?”
My response: I have no means of knowing how many Jews were hostile to National-Socialist Germany. However, I think the majority of Jews were hostile to National-Socialist Germany, and many Jews would have taken actions against Germany if they had the opportunity. This is why Germany rounded up Jews and sent them to camps and ghettos.
You write: “Is it justified to take young kids and kill them for the alleged ‘sins’ of their parents?”
My response: The Germans did not have a policy of killing Jewish children during World War II. This is why so many Jewish children survived the war.
If you REALLY study the hows and whys of pre-WW2 behavior by the governments and NGOs (zionists) of the time, you might come to a different conclusion, assuming you are honest in your acceptance of the TRUTH.
Mind you not MY truth but the total unvarnished truth.
It’s no secret that the Wiemar Republic was one hell of a swinging place with all types of debauchery and other aberrant behavior not only tolerated but accepted.
At the same time, bolshevik communist elements (mostly jewish) were wreaking havoc within the political systems within Germany. The average German lived a threadbare existence because of the heavy war reparations exacted against Germany after the conclusion of WW1 unlike his jewish neighbors who were nor affected by the “war reparations” that were imposed on the German state. This further aided in resentment against the jews of the time. Unfair, perhaps?
Enter the zionists.
You have to admit that zionism is a political system that was created long before WW1 to foster jewish interests.
So far so good.
Marginalization of the jews living in Germany was a major goal of the zionist leaders. This was purposely done to “encourage” jews to move to the land that was promised to them by the British with its “Balfour Declaration”.
Most German jews lived comfortable lives in Germany, running most of the businesses, and in general living good lives. They had no desire to emigrate to what was then known as Palestine. They considered themselves to be German citizens and had no desire to leave their comfortable lives behind to emigrate to a relative unknown land.
Here is where the marginalization of the jews comes in.
Germany wanted to be rid of the jewish communist elements that were causing much social unrest.
Mind you, most jews were not a part of this cabal that was pushing bolshevik communism but “guilt by ethnicity (association)” was the order of the day. Not fair, but that is the way things were…
It is a fact that zionist interests saw marginalization of the jews as an opportunity to “encourage” emigration to Palestine.
Deals were made between zionist jewish leaders and the German government at the highest levels which were unknown to the average citizen in the street.
In order to assist with the marginalization of their own people, top-level zionists were the group that assisted the German government in this marginalization.
It was zionist interests that not only suggested but helped implement the wearing of the “yellow star of David”, and other restrictions on where and when jews could congregate or even do business.
This was a“feature” and not a “bug” as these practices aided in the “encouragement” of jews to emigrate. In fact, the German government assisted those jews who chose to emigrate with financial help, something that most people even today are unaware of.
A good tome on this subject is “51 Questions and Answers–Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis” by jewish (communist) Lenni Brenner.
Oh, hello, Corvinus. I don’t recall reading anything written/asserted by you to be correct.
As a matter of fact, last we corresponded, you claimed that John Wear’s book, Germany’s War, had been refuted. I asked for a specific detail, or a specific passage, subject of the refutation, and you never gave an answer. Perhaps you shall herein, as Mr. Wear is haunting this thread.
Any luck with the Belgian Malinois?
Sure, you must be referring to the subversives who stay out in the open, or those who freely admit/tell what they’ve been up to, as Jews historically do – they are known for forthrightness, honesty, fair deals, honesty, inclusion, honesty, tolerance, gratitude, honesty…..
So they could remain with their parents. That’s why there were family bunkers, children centers, etc., in the camps; children were not murdered in the concentration camps/centers.
No. Who said it was?
Are Palestinian children killed by Jews for the sin of being born to Arabs who live in the land promised to the Jews?
I believe Hitler once said that Palestine would be a safe haven for Jewish criminality; I couldn’t find the particular speech, but here’s something from early 1939 –
…The nations are no longer willing to die on the battlefield so that this unstable international race may profiteer from a war or satisfy its Old Testament vengeance. The Jewish watchword “Workers of the world unite” will be conquered by a higher realization, namely “Workers of all classes and of all nations, recognize your common enemy!”
You cannot get away with this absolute drivel. The Germans had no lawful right to seize Jewish property and place Jews into ghettos and then transport them to
Labor camps. They were non combatants. The German behavior was barbaric. When the world witnessed what Eichmann was doing to the Hungarian Jews, it lit a fire and it was never the same for Germany. The fact that Eichmann thought he could do what he did is proof how crazy he was. Did Eichmann like you John say no worries we are resettling the Jews to Bergen Belsen, or Dachau or other camps. He did not because it is too stupid to think anyone would believe him because Eichmann did not have to transport the Hews anywhere. Pointless. Auschwitz was the last stop.
There was no plan other than eradication of men, women and children. John this was an era before deniers. You think people around the world did not know? Listen to what they had to say below. What Churchill had to say. What Eichmann started was a world campaign to save the Jews.
Recruitment by the War Refugee Board
edit
At the end of May 1944, George Mantello received and immediately publicized two important reports given to him by Romanian diplomat Florian Manilou, who had returned from a fact-finding trip to Romania and Budapest at Mantello’s request. Manilou received material from Miklos “Moshe” Krausz in Budapest, who worked with Carl Lutz to rescue Jews. One of the reports was probably Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandl’s abridged version of the 33-page Auschwitz Protocols (i.e., the Vrba-Wetzler and Rosin-Mordowicz reports). The reports described in detail the operations of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp.[32] The second was a 6-page Hungarian report that detailed the ghettoization and deportation of 435,000 Hungarian Jews, as updated to 19 June 1944, by towns, to Auschwitz.[33]
Manilou publicized the reports’ findings immediately upon receipt. This resulted in large scale grass roots protest in Switzerland against the unprecedented barbarism against Jews and led to Horthy being threatened by Roosevelt and Churchill . Winston Churchill’s letter: “There is no doubt that this persecution of Jews in Hungary and their expulsion from enemy territory is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world….”[34]
Following the report’s publication the administration of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt turned to the newly created War Refugee Board (WRB) in search of a solution to the genocide against Jews. US Treasury Department official Iver C. Olsen was dispatched to Stockholm as a representative of the WRB and tasked with putting together a plan to rescue the Jews of Hungary. In addition to his duties with the WRB, Olsen was also secretly employed as the chief of “Currency Operations” for the Stockholm station of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the United States’ wartime espionage service.[35]
I agree that the German actions were barbaric. However, why is that when the Zionazis commit the same actions eg seizing property, forced displacement, placing the victims in ghettos, mass torture, extra-judicial murder and imprisonment etc, against the Palestinians, you are all in favour of it? Are you a hypocrite, or do you have a flexible, ‘two-faced’ morality?
Regretably, given your sterling reputation, you are acting eighth-witted. POINT-BLANK into Kennedy’s head, but he was aiming at Sirhan? Pull the other one Ooze-it has carillons on it! Always the Party Line with our Ooze.
Just as the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza today is a ‘world event’. The whole world, apart from the bribed and blackmailed ‘elite’ swine in the West, sees your crimes, Melanie, and they hate you for them-just as you prefer. And they really despise your endless arrogant lying, as well.
You write: “Eichmann did not have to transport the Hews [sic] anywhere. Pointless. Auschwitz was the last stop. There was no plan other than eradication of men, women and children.”
My response: I document in my comment #798 on this discussion thread many of the Hungarian Jews who were first transported to Auschwitz-Birkenau and ended up somewhere else at the end of the war. Auschwitz-Birkenau was not the last stop for these Hungarian Jews.
I also document in my comment #816 on this discussion thread many of the numerous camps where Hungarian Jews could be transported to after first being transported to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Your statement that Auschwitz was the last stop is not correct.
Quite simple. He pulled the trigger while focussing on Sirhan just as Kennedy swung back and across to avoid, or because he was hit by, Sirhan’s shot. Do I positively believe it happened that way? No, but my belief that iàt could have is supported by the fact that lots of lawyers and police must have believed something like that in the absence of the kind of FOIA evidence that Ron so noticeably fails to seek which might have disclosed something more complicated behind the scenes.
I have pointed to the sort of attitude that Hitler expressed about Jews as iin itself making the broad Holocaust narrative and indeed many of its distasteful details plausible but Ron has seemed resistant to that reasoning despite his willingness to leap to stramge conclusions based on odd factoids that have tickled his imagination.
The fact that 25 Jews ended up somewhere else, that another 25 survived does not change what transpired.
Why and by what lawful right did the Germans with the world watching uproot 800,000 Jews, seize their property and possessions, ship their artwork to Germany, place them into overcrowded ghettoes, assign them numbers to be transported and against all known sanity throw them into cattle cars and transport 475,000 Jews in 3 months to Auschwitz. A camp that had no room, no ability to house and feed them. Mostly the elderly, babies, children, grandparents and mothers???
What purpose, what benefit did the German’s receive from uprooting these Jews when Germany knew the war was over? Did transporting those Jews help their war effort? If so how?
Why couldn’t the 800,000 Jews stay in Hungary and care for themselves? They posed no partisan threat.
What happened to the 350,000 Jews that went missing. Disappeared on the train platform when they arrived? Mothers who never saw their babies again. Children that never saw their parents again. That day!!! Would the Germans transport babies and grandmothers somewheres else and leave the mother at Auschwitz? The selection process was barbaric a symphony of sadism. Memorable to all who witnessed it.
What purpose did this event serve with the world watching??? Eichmann transported those Jews to eradicate the Hungarian Jews. No sane person would undertake such a venture.
The Germans laid the ground work for their own destruction. They deserved everything they got. Why do insist on defending the indefensible? You sound like Eichmann.
I’m worried about you Ron. It’s not just that you fatally undermine your credibility by refusing to debate, or at least honestly challenging debate to, David Cole. I am concerned for your health. Here’s why.
You admit to not being a fast reader yet you describe getting through a vast number of words which you note carefullly and write about in detail. And now your new enthusiasm for video has led you to watch no less than five long videos in the series introduced to you originally by LK.
When do you sleep? My interest converges from two speculative observations. One is given concrete form by the travails of my 64 year old Jewish tenant who, by coincidence started a succesful business in the same converted stable flat in the 1980s, first assembling Taiwanese Apple clones and commisioning and writing software and later adding stints as Barry Hunphreys’ sound man on an Australian tour and being sent to the US to explain the Internet to dozens of laggard branches of Goldman Sachs. That was at the instance of the then head of Goldman Sachs in Australia, Malcolm Turnbull, later our PM, who had made a fortune out of email and other software.
He was once also a fine gymnast and super fit too. But he hardly slept. I don’t have the complete picture but it seems that he had 48 hpur periods without sleep and just recently he has been sleeping as little as one and a half hours, with satisfaction that a week of Covid had given him 4 hours some nights. I believe him btw, with evidentiary support.
He has returned as tenant after a number of disasters including his being over generous to the mother of his children, his fllighty ex wife. He battles on helping others, still commissioning software in low cost neighbouring countries, but having also had a triple cardiac bypass, very heavy medication for excruciating back pain,
two or three small strokes, shaky hands from Parkinson’s disease and occasional disorientation consistent with the early stages of Lewy Body dementia. He still puts me to shame as a cook and fixes my computer and smartphone problems caused – if I am to be excused – by my AMD.
The convergence with my other thoughts about sleep (of which I have always wished I felt happy with less) is that sleep is required for several different reasons and the normal curve is likely to apply to the efficacy of each of its functions independently so that only one in a million people is likely to enjoy right tail performance of all its functions and really need only two or three hours sleep in 24. Are you one of the one in a million unlike my poor tenant? I hope so.
You write: “The Germans laid the ground work for their own destruction. They deserved everything they got. Why do [you] insist on defending the indefensible? You sound like Eichmann.”
My response: You sound like Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, Henry Morgenthau, Ilya Ehrenburg, Theodore Kaufman, Raphael Lemkin and other Jews of that era. The Germans did not deserve the genocidal treatment they received after the war. You might want to read my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/11/1/6416 for more information on this subject.
Will the Americans deserve everything they’ll get, Queen Esther?
As prominent rabbis have admitted, German national socialism was a reaction to Jewish Bolshevism. The Weimar Republic was a Jewish reproduction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Weimerica is Wiemar 2.0. Is Esau not supposed to defend his homeland against the deliberate destruction engineered by Jewish Supremacists?
Speaking of Jewish Supremacists and defending the indefensible, do you disavow the 7 Noahide Laws, Fran?
Let’s see if you’re willing to answer this question directly and explicitly. I doubt it, because as a Chanadnik you embrace every word in the Babylonian Talmud as the true word of Hashem. So, you’ll never disavow the Noahide Laws. Prove me wrong!
Ever goy must watch this excellent video in which Vincent Bruno exposes the threat the Noahide Laws poses for the dumb goyim of the world.
Speaking with Vincent Bruno about the Noahide Laws
Video Link
NB: Should a goyim violate any of the 7 Noahide Laws, the mandatory mode of execution is decapitation.
Mulga, their perfidious nature is the primary cause of their frequent expulsions throughout history. And as Fran frequently says of the Germans, they bring this ire upon themselves. However, in the case of Jews, as a group, the ire is earned outright, whereas the German’s acts, as most others had been, were reactive/retributive/provoked.
The chronic expulsions occur for a reason; has everyone in the past centuries been wrong? And, if you conduct a bit of research into this terrible history, you find over and over, the same accusations that mirror the issues we see today, as well.
The Triumph of Judaism over Germanism – Wilhelm Marr, 1879
* since the time of Babylon, they have been hated by all peoples, and they were/are historically noted for – 1. A loathing of real work/toil; 2. A fierce enmity against non-Jews.
* The freedoms/circumstances of Rome (All Gods welcome in Rome) led to Jewish proliferation in Europe; “With the Jews, the Romans have forced a tribe upon the West, which as its history shows, was thoroughly hated by all the peoples of the Orient.”
* Jews use guile to wage war with the West.
* “New Palestine” was created in Germany, but not by plow and axe.
* Jews used religious tolerance as shields for business interests, etc., “Jews needed equal rights in creating laws and administering the very same state which it negated on religious grounds.”
* “The disintegration of the German state was for the benefit of Jewish interests – the press was dominated by Jews, as was critique of theatre, culture, music – at this time, criticism of Jewish rituals was “hatred,” but Jews could easily insult Christianity.
* “In all aspects of life, the way to one’s goal is subject to Jewish mediation. There is no “struggle for existence” without Jewry collecting its commission.”
* Upon conclusion of the Russian-Turk war/Congress of Berlin (1878), Rumania was opened to Jewry, but Russia – “Jewry did not yet dare to make the same demand. This is yet to come.”
* Take note of the Jewish “speculative spirit”; The Jews supported the Turks in Russian-Turk conflict, which resulted in the liberation of Rumania, Bulgaria, Serbia, and Montenegro from the Ottomans. Jews are always on the lookout for opportunities for advantages.
* They remain clannish, yet promote individuality amongst their host nations, “individual freedom, which really stands for the impertinence and gall of the most unbridled avarice.”
* Finis Germaniae.
Do you note a pattern mirrored in society today? Hitler was open/honest about his views on Jews, and yes, some secular Jews were innocent of plotting against Gentiles, but the issue is, and I also see this in personal experience – the “innocent” Jews mostly support Israel, their local synagogue, and certainly their relations, who are not secular or who agitate for change, as well as world wide support for Jewish interests; Steven Spielberg is a perfect example of this – I believe he was a secular Jew, and perhaps still is, but you cannot say he has not promoted Jewish interests in this country.
“I have no means of knowing how many Jews were hostile to National-Socialist Germany.”
Take an educated guess. Doe this figure include young children?
“However, I think the majority of Jews were hostile to National-Socialist Germany, and many Jews would have taken actions against Germany if they had the opportunity.”
So you (and the Nazis) justify the forcible removal of millions of people on essentially “I think they could be dangerous”.
“many Jews would have taken actions against Germany if they had the opportunity”
You really don’t know for certain.
“The Germans did not have a policy of killing Jewish children during World War II. This is why so many Jewish children survived the war.”
That’s not what I asked. Try again. Is it justified to take young kids and kill them for the alleged ‘sins’ of their parents?”
Like I said, you get tied up on knots.
“I asked for a specific detail, or a specific passage, subject of the refutation, and you never gave an answer”
I did. You didn’t agree with my response.
“children were not murdered in the concentration camps/centers”
Patently false.
https://alphahistory.com/holocaust/eyewitness-to-einsatzgruppen-1942/
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4698/2/3/157
“No. Who said it was”
Except the Nazis took kids away from their parents. Murdered them, too. Why are you seemingly endorsing it?
“Are Palestinian children killed by Jews for the sin of being born to Arabs who live in the land promised to the Jews?”
Of course.
You sound a lot like Eichmann. You would have transported those Jews to Auschwitz in a heartbeat. You have been in the closet, hoping, wishing the Germans would have finished the job. Because after all they (the Jews) deserve (deserved) it. You know that the Germans wanted to eradicate Jewry. Because at the end of the day it was the Jews that brought Germany down. They lost we won. But it is not like the NS didn’t try. That is why you are such a low life liar.
> But there never could’ve been good long-term relations between the two countries anyway.
That’s such a hazy statement that it would be pointless to try refuting. What defined the Cold War was precisely the sense that an impending general attack might come at any time when a willingness to carry on global interventions slackened. Good relations between countries have generally just arisen from a balance of power, and there was no obvious reason why this should not have been the case. Except that politics made it seem necessary to exaggerate the imminent likelihood of conflict, which in turn became self-fulfilling.
The 3 monarchies in Austria, Germany and Russia bear a general responsibility for war in 1914. The Austrians should have realized that after 2 earlier Balkan wars in 1912-3, it would be risky to have another go. Sort of like of hopping from a crisis over Berlin to Cuba and then to some third confrontation where US and Soviet ships face each other in the Tonkin Gulf. Fortunately, that never happened.
Wow with people like that sounds like it was and still is a good idea to wipe these horror shows of humanity off the face of the earth. No? But it did not happen? Hitler so full of truth and honesty never tried to do the right thing? The Jews made it all up?
And look at what those scum of the earth Jews are doing to those poor Arab babies. Killers. The perfidy!!
After Hamas, on to Hezbollah, than Iran. All will be defeated and the world will be a better place. You. Poor you boo hooing about these unrelenting evil people and their perfidy. God I love that word. Someone had got to get rid of them (the Jews)
> In 1939, everyone thought the USSR was about to fall?
Get your dates straight. In 1939, it was Germany that was aligned with the USSR. Britain only became aligned with Stalin after June 22, 1941.
Franny, your grasp on reality is so fantastic that I doubt that any truth would find its way in. Plus you sound like a broken record.
You write: “Like I said, you get tied up on knots.”
My response: Actually, I don’t get tied up in knots.
What National-Socialist Germany did to Jews during the war was not dramatically different from what the United States did to its Japanese-American civilians during the war. The United States saw Japanese-American civilians as a potential threat to the American war effort. Therefore, approximately 120,000 Japanese-Americans, which included women and children, were sent to American camps against their will.
It is well-documented that many Jewish women fought against the Third Reich during the war. Jewish historian Dr. Judy Batalion, in her book “The Light of Days”, states that Jewish women who resisted the Third Reich were far more numerous than she had ever imagined. She writes:
“At first, I imagined that the several dozen resistance operatives mentioned in Freuen comprised the total amount. But as soon as I touched on the topic, extraordinary tales of female fighters crawled out from every corner: archives, catalogues, strangers who emailed me their family stories. I found dozens of women’s memoirs published by small presses, and hundreds of testimonies in Polish, Russian, Hebrew, Yiddish, German, French, Dutch, Danish, Greek, Italian, and English, from the 1940s to today.” (Source: Batalion, Judy, The Light of Days: The Untold Story of Women Resistance Fighters in Hitler’s Ghettos, New York: Harper Collins Publishers, 2020, p. 4).
Many Jewish women used stealth and disguises to murder Germans. For example, 24-year-old Niuta Teitelbaum, from the Communist group Spartacus, wore her flaxen hair in braids, appearing like a young 16-year-old—an innocent disguise that hid her role as an assassin. She walked into the office of a high-ranking Gestapo officer, and shot him in cold blood at his desk. Teitelbaum pulled the trigger on yet another German officer while he was in bed in his own home. In another operation, she killed two Gestapo agents and wounded a third who was taken to a hospital. Disguising herself as a doctor, Teitelbaum entered the wounded Gestapo agent’s room, and murdered both him and his guard. (Source: Ibid., p. 219).
In another instance, Teitelbaum dressed like a Polish farm girl with a kerchief in her blond hair. She walked into a German command post, smiled, and then shot an SS soldier with her pistol. Another time, Teitelbaum strolled up to the guards outside Szucha, and said she needed to speak to a certain officer about a “personal matter.” The guards showed her the way to her “boyfriend’s office,” where she pulled out a concealed pistol with a silencer and shot him in the head. She smiled meekly at the guards on her way out. (Source: Ibid.)
For these and other acts of lethal resistance, the Gestapo nicknamed Teitelbaum “Little Wanda with the Braids,” and put her on all of its most-wanted lists. She survived the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, but was eventually hunted down and executed a few months later. (Source: Ibid., p. 220).
You ask: “Is it justified to take young kids and kill them for the alleged ‘sins’ of their parents?”
My response: National-Socialist Germany did not have a policy of killing young children for the alleged sins of their parents. This is a myth of the so-called Holocaust.
Arab children are dying because their army is hiding in tunnels leaving them above ground to fight. Hamas should come out of their tunnels and put the civilians in them. Reverse the situation.
Arab when they fight each other do not distinguish between fighters and civilians. Everyone is fair game look at the 150,000 Syrian children murdered. Only Israel and the west protect civilians and because we have those policies the Jihadist hide in children’s bedrooms and schools. We brought it on ourselves by our own morality. That is why Arabs never take other Arabs as hostages. What would be the point.
The jihadist set up the death of their own civilians as a war strategy. Hiding in tunnels. Israel being forced to kill above ground civilians unfortunately it is do or die for Israel if it means blowing the entire of Gaza to bits. Which is what Israel is doing.
Hamas, Hamas come out wherever you are give hack the hostages and surrender. What do you think Hitler would have done with Hamas.
You write: “You know that the Germans wanted to eradicate Jewry.”
My response: The Germans wanted to kick Jews out of their country, but they didn’t want to eradicate them.
You write: “That is why you are such a low life liar.”
My response: I am not a low life liar. Your personal attack on me has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing. I recommend that we stay on topic in the future.
No you are incorrect. John is the broken record with his repetitive lists of Hungarian survivors. And of course his list of disabled Jews that he parades around and post whenever I post.
I post verifiable facts. Nothing more verifiable then the murder of the Hungarian Jews in 4 months. And TT. How many times can you say the perfidy of the Jews in one lifetime?
For the umpteenth time, where is the verifiable forensic evidence to prove that Germans rounded up Jews and killed them, on the scale as asserted in the holocost fables?
Reprisal executions partisan paramilitary and their supporters are an entirely different kettle of fish and is practised by all military.
Well, it was Jews who declared war on Germany in 1933, making every Jew an enemy of Germany.
Thar’s what “Judea” means, right? Every Jew.
So take your complaints to those who proclaimed war.
A. Hitler did advise Judea that should they start another war against Germany, all hell would break loose.
Well, glancing over this long thread, which had now accumulated more than 150,000 words, I noticed that you’d added quite a lot of comments, including lengthy ones, on subjects having little connection to the topic at hand, such as a discussion of the German military strategy in WWI.
This is a favorite trick by “operatives,” who attempt to hide important points by concealing them in a vast forest of irrelevant verbiage.
Given your supposed historical knowledge and research skills, I’m still waiting for you to locate any mainstream discussion of the supposed Holocaust in the American publications of the 1950s. Given that it was certainly the most horrific war crime in the history of the world, with the loss of life being around 2,500 times greater than Pearl Harbor, surely someone would have mentioned it somewhere, just a few years after it happened. I’m absolutely sure there must be at least a few references, but I just haven’t managed to locate any myself.
Incidentally, I just finished reading an interesting book on the role of the Holocaust in Israeli society. Just as I’d assumed, there had been an immediate outpouring of books and articles on that subject, hardly surprising since such a substantial fraction of postwar Israelis were themselves Holocaust survivors from the camps. But apparently the most popular and influential of those personal memoirs described in great detail the widespread sadomasochist sexual perversions that the Nazi SS had inflicted upon the Jewish inmates at Auschwitz and the other death-camps. However, according to today’s mainstream Holocaust scholarship, none of that actually happened and those autobiographical memoirs were merely pornographic fiction.
Also, almost everyone in Israel was absolutely sure that the Nazis had rendered Jewish corpses into soap, and top government leaders declared it absolutely true. However, once again, today’s mainstream Holocaust scholarship declared it a hoax decades ago, include Yad Vashem, Israel’s most authoritative center of Holocaust information.
What part of “Judea Declares War on Germany” don’t you understand?
When Jews were taken into custody for anti-German activities, why should Germans look after the Jew’s children?
That’s why the entire family was put into custody so that their children stayed with them.
Is that really your recollection? I seem to remember your actual response was – moving on….
Why Are Jews So Influential? thread:
tttt – #570 – do you have the single refutation of a fact asserted in Germany’s War? No? Maybe the BlackMagicDebate People can help you out.
tttt – # 586 – Now, are you going to cite a refutation of the facts in Germany’s War, of your own determination, of course, and do you need a reference for a good kennel/breeder of Belgian Malinois?
Corvinus – #587 – It is one’s interpretation of facts, which is replete with confirmation bias. We’ve been over this before.
tttt – #600 – You said his book had been refuted. That’s what you wrote. I asked for a specific example. Where is it?
Corvinus – #603 – Buried in text. You’re simply not going to believe it anyways. Moving on…
tttt – #604 – What does it matter if I believe you? The whole idea of a debate/argument is the battle of opposing views. Why don’t you try to prove me wrong?
Corvinus – Nada…..
Ok, where was the einsatzgruppen concentration camp located?
If you mean to suggest children were victims of warfare, then yes, they were killed. There was no specific plan/intent to murder children. It is a known fact that the Allies instigated the specific bombing/targeting of civilian areas and/or areas with no acknowledged military targets. Perhaps you have bothered to study on the bombing of Dresden?
Partisan activities were the cause of many civilian casualties – Life World War 2 – The Partisans – […] among the bravest were guerillas who operated behind German lines… Peasants pulled a boatload of supplies to partisans hiding in the Bellorussian woods… gradually these irregulars transformed themselves into well armed squads…
What is it that I am endorsing? You are so thoroughly judaized, Corvinus, just like Pava LaPere, that you view the speaking/writing of truth as anti-Semitic or racist. I endorse the de-judaizment of America/Europe, and all western nations.
Poor judaized Corvinus is painfully unaware of the inherent hypocrisy rife within Judaism. The Jews say – we are the aristocrats of the world!; we are the best of all peoples; we are the light unto this world; we will usher in the world to come; Israel is for Jews, Europe is for everyone; my rabbi said, do not gaze upon the image of Christ! – remember, you are a Jew!; Kill Amalek, Destroy Edom! – it goes on and on….open your eyes. So, violence is appropriate to remove Arabs/Gentiles from Palestine, but it wasn’t appropriate to remove Jews from Europe? Personally, I endorse violence as a defensive measure if nothing else will suffice. I also endorse fighting one’s own battles. So, you see, I am not a hypocrite.
Have you read any Ilya Ehrenburg? Try We Will Not Forget. It’s a doozie. He gets an eye roll button and an award for spooky fiction.
Corvinus, that aforementioned book title sums up their attitude since the destruction of their Temple. So, there is no end to their attempts at retribution.
My dear Franny, there is no limit until my life is over.
But, I’m making up for lost time as I once defended Jews, in general.
“For the umpteenth time, where is the verifiable forensic evidence to prove that Germans rounded up Jews and killed them, on the scale as asserted in the holocost fables?”
Nice deflection. Stay on point.
So ALL Jews throughout Germany and Europe were potential saboteurs? Including the elderly? What about the young kids?
“Reprisal executions partisan paramilitary and their supporters are an entirely different kettle of fish and is practised by all military.”
Including the elderly and children who were not accused?
As far as forensic evidenc, it’s been well documented. But you and others deny it.
https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2000/jan/26/irving.uk
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unearthing-the-atrocities-of-nazi-death-camps/
“I’m still waiting for you to locate any mainstream discussion of the supposed Holocaust in the American publications of the 1950s. “
Let’s have the proper context here. You know better.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1396708
https://marcuse.faculty.history.ucsb.edu/classes/133p/133p04papers/CMaganaTextbooks046.htm
No, it’s actually not a hazy statement at all. It’s an easily reasoned conclusion based on the ideological, and deceptive, nature of the Marxist-Leninist state, as well as actual evidence:
Mark, E. M. (2001). Revolution by Degrees: Stalin’s National-front Strategy for Europe, 1941-1947. United States: Cold War International History Project, Woodrow Wilson International Center of Scholars.
———————————-
If you have any evidence the Soviet Union was an honest organization, then post it. But if you want to just deceptively spew forth ‘great power’ theory and mischaracterize the Soviet Union, then I’ll just keep reposting this.
> subjects having little connection to the topic at hand
It was another poster who began introducing the name of Yermak Timofeyevich, a Cossack Ataman of the 16th century. I don’t normally characterize this as a trick by someone. But if that’s your way of approaching things then you should take it to the one who started it.
Thanks for those helpful references, which demonstrate exactly the point I was making.
The first was to an article by Deborah Lipstadt that she later expanded into an entire book. The second relied heavily upon the research of Lucy Dawidowicz, which she also gathered together into a major book.
Both those books were central to my own 2018 article analyzing the Holocaust, and anyone who reads them carefully, together with the related works by other mainstream Holocaust scholars, will conclude that the Holocaust is an obvious hoax. In fact, I had cited both those book in this very article upon which you now commenting. I would even argue that the strongest evidence against the reality of the Holocaust can be found in the books written by leading mainstream Holocaust scholars:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#deborah-lipstadt-and-holocaust-denial
> an honest organization
Definitely an out of this world criterion. It’s rare for any poster in this board to implicitly suggest that other governments were honest organizations. But that’s the only context in which your comment would make sense.
Getting to the thrust of what you’re quoting from another author there, Stalin frequently expressed the belief in 1945-6 that a new imperialist rivalry was going to develop between the US and UK. It’s hard to determine whether he believed this (as he may have) or whether it was simply a contrived rationale (also possible). If he had taken a clearer look at the strengths of the US and UK in 1945, it should have been obvious that Britain would simply become a junior partner.
But the line which he took around 1945-6 was that new inter-imperialist rivalries were going to grow between the US and the UK, and that the USSR needed to stay on the sidelines as this happened. Obviously, it didn’t happen, and his forecast became irrelevant as NATO was formed. But again, the line taken there was not that the USSR should plan an early invasion of western Europe (as the Truman administration charged in 1947-8). It was simply that the USSR needs to stay in the background and let the US-UK rivalry develop.
Do you think Pat is just some Stalinist shill recruited by the ADL because he’s dedicated to preserving the official WW2 narrative? Maybe he’s like an evil twin of Leni Brenner, the Trotskyist whose ideological commitments led him to uncover the Nazi-Zionist partnership.
I agree with your comment in general, but I’ll have to add France to that list based on this evidence:
Clark, C. (2012). The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914. United Kingdom: Penguin Books Limited.
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As for the main French diplomats:
Hayne, M. B. (1993). The French Foreign Office and the origins of the First World War, 1898-1914. United Kingdom: Clarendon Press.
————————————————————–
Zuber, T. (2014). “France and the Cause of World War I.” Global War Studies. Volume 11; Issue 3.
——————————————————-
– Japan was and is a country that was at war with the US. Japan attacked the homeland of the US, at Pearl Harbor.
– The Japanese that were interned were not stripped of their US citizenship. Their property was not seized and assets stolen. They remained in tack as Americans. They were not sent off to camps where they were selected as laborers and housed in unsanitary diseased conditions.
The Jews were not a country and had no standing army. The war on the Jews started long before WW2. The Jews were falsely blamed as part of a conspiracy sabotaging the Germans involving the Versailles treaty. A false conspiracy. The Hungarians and Poles would have been happy to survive the war. I doubt they were any Partisans fighting the Germans, before the Warsaw ghetto when the Jews were sent to death camps.
There is zero similarity between the internment of Jews as compared to Japanese American citizens. Shameful for you to make such a ridiculous comparison.
Well, what I meant was is that there was no possibility of ‘good faith’ dealing on the Soviet’s part, and I’ve stated that more than once. The FDR appointed ambassadors who went to the Soviet Union would’ve all settled for a reciprocal relationship, assuming they could gain some level of trust and deal on ‘good faith’.
However, since the Soviet Union considered itself an existential enemy of the U.S., and all capitalist states, and since it outwardly projected a false image to cover up its many atrocities and oppressions–all of which were irreconcilable with Western beliefs in legitimate governance–there could never be any trust. In the entirety of its existence, no non-communist state trusted the Soviet Union enough to let its guard down. Except perhaps Czechoslovakia, and they paid the price for that. Well, maybe the Baltic States too, but they also paid the price for that.
Stalin viewed Joseph E. Davies as the most favorable American diplomat, probably the only one he liked, because Davies was willing to lie, deceive, and repeat any Soviet propaganda they wanted him to repeat. For a capitalist, he was a good comrade. As for FDR, to an extent he would lie on behalf of the USSR, but Stalin probably cared more that he could get concessions out of Roosevelt and give little or nothing in return. He was perhaps disappointed his subsidies might end with the death of FDR.
Because Stalin viewed the relationship as first and foremost a zero-sum game between two hostile spheres competing for world supremacy, he could only accept a transactional relationship where the Soviet Union gained at the expense of the West. His sphere had to be gaining, and the opposing sphere had to be losing. As soon as he determined he could no longer receive favorable concessions from his American adversaries, and since he couldn’t create conflict by turning America against Great Britain or vice versa, he had no interest in the relationship.
Um, about six gorrillion?
Incidentally, for those with idle time on their hands over the Holidays, here are three of the most comprehensive Holocaust videos, produced about 15-20 years ago by a San Francisco resident, which I recently watched again for the first time in five or six years.
They obviously lack the expensive production values of a big-budget Hollywood extravaganza and the quality of the narration is only so-so, but they do provide an enormous amount of extremely important information for those who prefer to get it through videos rather than books:
One-Third of the Holocaust • 4h15m
Video Link
Buchanwald, a Dumb, Dumb Portrayal of Evil • 2h21m
Video Link
The Auschwitz Hoax – Why the Gas Chambers are a Myth • 50m
Video Link
Given all vast quantity of all this evidence, those who accept the traditional Holocaust narrative are about as ridiculous as believers in a Flat Earth.
Well, I had a look at the references you cited; what a laugh!
Van Pelt is on record in a Toronto newspaper that: “For 99% of what we know of the holocaust, no evidence exists.” How can one know anything of a subject without any evidence thereof? And this “worthy” teaches at my alma mater. I no longer support my school for this and other reasons.
Sturdy Colls and her findings are a laugh! What did she find? Tiles with a Jewish star on the back. Turns out those tiles had the trade mark of the manufacturer! No evidence whatsoever of millions, thousands, or dozens of buried corpses.
Verifiable forensic evidence = zero.
Judea declared war on Germany in 1933! That means all Jews!
That is why believers and purveyors of the holocost narrative refuse to debate these issues with those knowledgeable with the facts.
I’d pay to see Mr Wear debate any holocaustian on public television. Not going to happen, and we all know why, because the available evidence proves the opposite of what holocaustians would have us believe.
As I wrote earlier, thousands upon thousands of postings on Mr Unz’s blog here, and not one iota of verifiable forensic evidence has ever been offered.
Instead we get such laughable tripe as by Corvinius in his post 866 above.
The worst part is that these people breed.
Well, thank goodness you’re here to teach/preach!
Pretzel, by now, please assume I have the basic dates square – the little usurpation by Hitler – January 30, 1933; the final usurpation no one in Germany wanted/approved/that never brought good results for Germans – August, 1934; Annihilation of All Austrian Flowers – March, 1938; Wool-Pulling of Chamberlain – September, 1938; The utter decimation of ancient Czechoslovakia, wherein no German had dared to tread – March, 1939; The beginning of World Conquest, also in a land were no Germans dared to tread – September 1, 1939; The Soviet/Bolshevik slip-in-through-the-back-door Offensive, yet no one cares/cared, except the Poles in the Katyn Forest – September 17, 1939; SLBFDR lies through his teeth incessantly and ushers in the Final Solution/Jewish Version for the ruination of America/Europe, for which there is actual evidence – 1933 – April 12, 1945.
The Germans/Soviets & Bolsheviks were never true allies, and there is no possibility that this was not known to Allied insiders; Britain is/was allied with the City of London and New Amsterdam/New Jerusalem, and there is no possibility that this is/was known to the average citizens of England and America.
Otherwise known as Germany’s War – aka Another Attempt to Free the World from the MolochPeople and their minions, and thereby save the western world.
Pretzel won’t work too hard on this assignment, however I have been looking into the deportations in Hungary, and I came across this interesting information a while ago:
Rudolf Vrba and Alfred Wetzler Try to Convince the Jewish Council
[…] After three days of hiding in the woodpile outside of Auschwitz, and fifteen days of walking more than 85 miles through occupied Poland, Rudolf and Alfred arrived at the Jewish Council headquarters in Zilina, Czechoslovakia on April 25, 1944….
On June 15 1944, the BBC World Service broadcast the report and on June 20, 1944, the New York Times published the first of three stories about the gas chambers at Auschwitz. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and other world leaders appealed to Admiral Miklos Horthy, dictator of Hungary, to stop the deportations…
[…] The story of the Vrba-Wetzler Report and the Auschwitz Protocols has been widely documented through Europe and North America, but according to Professor Linn, the citizens of Israel didn’t hear of the Auschwitz Protocols until the end of the 20th Century. She wrote that there has been a conspiracy of silence about it in Israel.
The end.
I checked a few newspaper archives in America; very few entries were found, and the story below was printed exactly in a few other papers:
Monitor Leader, July 3, 1944
Mass-Murder of Jews Told
[…] Execution halls at Auschwitz and Birkenau were said to be fake bathing establishments capable of dispatching 2000 to 8000 Jews daily. “Prisoners were led into cells and ordered to strip for bathing,” the Times dispatch said, “then cyanide gas was said to have been released, causing death in 3 to 5 minutes. The bodies are burned in crematories that hold eight to ten at a time. At Birkenau there are about 50 such furnaces. They were opened March 12, 1943 by a large party of Nazi chiefs who witnessed the disposal of 8000 Jews from 9 AM until 7:30 PM according to the report.
The end.
I think it’s reasonable to speculate that these allegations were considered hysterical/inaccurate/impossible, etc., at the time of the alleged occurrence/testimony, as the events were surely more easily verifiable. However, after a few decades have elapsed, and obviously time has eroded/destroyed much otherwise verifiable evidence, the story begins anew, and everyone suddenly breaks their vows of silence.
Thanks for the videos, and your lengthy posts/articles, which I prefer, as it is impossible to convey such controversial/contested information without voluminous details if your aim is to get readers to think critically about the information therein.
You write: “The Japanese that were interned were not stripped of their US citizenship. Their property was not seized and assets stolen. They remained in tack as Americans. They were not sent off to camps where they were selected as laborers and housed in unsanitary diseased conditions…There is zero similarity between the internment of Jews as compared to Japanese American citizens. Shameful for you to make such a ridiculous comparison..”
My response: The Japanese-Americans were forced to go to American camps against their will. They were forced to go to these camps because the American military was afraid that at least some of them would work for Japan. This is why Japanese-Americans were interned in American camps against their will, and is also why Jews were interned in German camps and ghettos against their will.
The horrific scenes encountered by U.S. and British troops when they entered German concentration camps at the end of World War II have been used to prove a German policy of extermination of the Jews. As gruesome as these scenes were, it was soon discovered that most of the deaths in the German camps were caused by disease and other natural causes. None of the autopsy reports shows that anyone died of poison gas. Also, contrary to publicized claims, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps. The virtual collapse of Germany’s food, transport, and public health systems and the extreme overcrowding in the German camps at the end of the war led to the catastrophe the Allied troops encountered when they entered the German camps.
Thus, while it is true that conditions in the German camps became far worse than the conditions in the American camps, this is because the German economy had essentially collapsed toward the end of the war. By contrast, the American economy was relatively strong. The Americans were able to feed its Japanese-American prisoners without any problem, while food shortages were extreme in Germany toward the end of the war.
“Both those books were central to my own 2018 article analyzing the Holocaust, and anyone who reads them carefully, together with the related works by other mainstream Holocaust scholars, will conclude that the Holocaust is an obvious hoax”
This is tortured logic on your part. To the contrary, any reasonable person will deduce that their works prove the Holocaust happened.
“Judea declared war on Germany in 1933! That means all Jews!”
This is flimsy, and served as an excuse for the Nazi regime to take extralegal measures, which included the murdering of children.
“Well, I had a look at the references you cited; what a laugh“
You can laugh all you want, but you haven’t disproved a thing I said.
“Corvinus – Nada”
We’ve been through this before. I refuted his notion that if one eyewitness account was found out to be false or inaccurate, then every single one is also invalid. Doesn’t work that way. Thousands of people, from German soldiers to Polish peasants provide detailed information about Nazi atrocities at the death camps. It happened.
“There was no specific plan/intent to murder children”
To the contrary,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822534/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yp6uObOZi8&feature=youtu.be
Why do you condone such wanton cruelty?
My point exactly. Why transport all those disabled Jews to a broken down camp system in the summer of 1944. The Hungarian Jews. They could have stayed in Budapest to the end of the war.
See you make zero logical sense. Auschwitz was not like the interment camps the Japanese Americans went to.
The system broke down in Germany because it was barbaric the way that prisoners were treated. The Japanese were treated humanely. You fail to acknowledge the inhumane treatment the German SS inflicted upon the Jews. The Americans were not sadistic to the Japanese.
You never mention how fucked up and sick the Germans were in the behavior towards interned civilians. It got the attention of the entire world. The Hungarians said it was like watching a zombie horror movie watching the Jews being placed on trains.
Well, I doubt you’ve actually read any of the books in question, so how would you know?
You also probably haven’t read the long article in which I discussed and analyzed them:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#deborah-lipstadt-and-holocaust-denial
Why not have Finkelstein weigh in on the Holocaust since his family were survivors.? Your work is childish polemics. You know very well that there is a ton of factual evidence concerning the murder of Jews. Yet like a child you love the soap story.
Polemical crap is what would call your Holocaust writings. Nothing more.
Ask Finkelstein to write an article on whether the Holocaust is a hoax? What are you afraid of.? He will leave out the lampshades and soap? Your favorite items of ridicule? You know n used to sell the Jews 100,000 for a “today” only price. Like those Jews would be gone in a day or two.
You write: “The system broke down in Germany because it was barbaric the way that prisoners were treated. The Japanese were treated humanely. You fail to acknowledge the inhumane treatment the German SS inflicted upon the Jews. The Americans were not sadistic to the Japanese.”
My response: The system broke down in Germany because of the Allied attacks on Germany by land, sea and air. No such similar attacks ever occurred on American soil. The virtual collapse of Germany’s food, transport, and public health systems and the extreme overcrowding in the German camps at the end of the war led to the catastrophe the Allied troops encountered when they entered the German camps.
Norman Finkelstein is certainly a fine scholar, but his specialty is the Israel/Palestine conflict and the Middle East. I’m not sure he knows much about the Holocaust or has read any of the books or articles on the subject.
As I’ve emphasized in my articles, I’m hardly a Holocaust expert myself and over the last few years I doubt I’ve even spent 5% of my time on that subject. However, I’ve now probably read at least twenty Holocaust books, enough to give me at least some basic understanding of the issues. The articles I’ve published have been based on analyzing and evaluating the material in those books, though I do think I’ve come up with some very effective and innovative arguments.
If you’ve read my articles, you’ve probably noticed that I deliberately tend to avoid the more technical issues. That’s because I really don’t trust my expertise on those matters, which are best left to researchers who have spent years or often decades focused on those topics.
Instead, the points I make are very simple ones. If a huge bestseller published in 1951 ridiculed the Holocaust as a hoax and the ADL attacked the book on every other issue but never challenged that one, one can draw some obvious implications from that reaction.
As expected. Fran Taubman, dodged disavowing the 7 Noahide Laws with a 10 foot pole, lol.
Logical conclusion? Queen Esther endorses the 7 Noahide Laws, whereby each Tzadik (righteous Jew) is blessed by Hashem with 2,800 Noahide (goyim) slaves.
Talk about Jewish Supremacy!
I have read those books, as well as your article and analysis. As I correctly stated, you employed tortured logic in portraying their works as supporting your thesis.
Why do you condone such wanton lying/exaggerations? Why do you accept a story that varies wildly from witness to witness? Why do you accept a story that must be adjusted accordingly as time/evidence brings forth new facts/impossibilities? Why do you accept a story that must be protected by legislation/criminal sanctions?
Corvinus, I don’t following your links, as I am familiar enough with your intellectual capacity and your ridiculous left-wing mumbo-jumbo/vapid platitudes, therefore I needn’t bother.
Why don’t you tell us how it works, then? You refuted nothing. And, Corvinus, who is he? I made the statement/assertion about lying witnesses.
If one witness is proven to be testifying falsely, to the extent the other witnesses offer the same testimony, under the same circumstances, they are ALL lying. Go ahead, make your refutation and tell me why/how I’m wrong.
So, apparently the initial gas chamber story, testified by eyewitness escapees was – 8 to 10 bodies were stuffed in each muffle; there were 50 ovens at Birkenau; 8,000 people were/could be gassed/incinerated in 12.5 hours…..how does this testimony align with the testimony of Sonderkommandos Gabbai, Tauber, Nencel, Venezia?
How’s your algebra? Get crackin’ on the math to determine the veracity of said claim, apart from any contradictions by other eyewitnesses, of course. Hopefully, you went to school before Maths was decolonized; if not, you let me know and I’ll help you….again.
Should I bother with the Belgian Malinois inquiry?
I explicitly asked Norman Finkelstein his take on Ron Unz’s views of the Holocaust in an email about 3 years ago.
I was specifically writing to Finkelstein in response to his article, in which he argued against Facebook and Twitter banning Holocaust denial:
https://peacenews.info/node/9757/why-we-should-rejoice-holocaust-deniers-not-suppress-them
I hope I’m not violating any confidences by summarizing that Finkelstein found some of Unz’s points interesting, but that Unz’s overall conclusions were wrong, and blandly referred to the vast amount of scholarship on the Holocaust.
In other words, Unz’s characterization of Finkelstein, as not being an expert on the Holocaust, seems accurate. (Anyone, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.) Also, Finkelstein had several times referred to his mother being a Holocaust survivor and many of his family perishing in it, in order to refute the attempts of other descendants of Holocaust victims trying to use that to shut down criticism of Israel. As you know, he’s a very knowledgeable and courageous critic of the Israeli government. But I think his family’s circumstance may color his view of the Holocaust.
By the way, my grandfather is an “official” victim of the Holocaust. He wasn’t Jewish, but an ethnic Serb living with his family in Croatia during WW II. Both his and his wife’s families had lived in Croatia for centuries. The Ustashe regime put in place by Germany were viciously anti-Serbian, and he lost his job as a result, and was arrested several times. He couldn’t flee because his parents and in-laws were too old (3 were in a Croatian-run concentration camp for a while, where one of them died), and his daughters too young. He was murdered in custody after his last arrest. Note: no crazy, improbable details are needed for this sad story:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/id-card/ilija-lemajith
I don’t think you understand logic, nor do you have the capacity for it.
Stick to Dr. Seuss, and those books written by intellectual giant, Ibram X. Kendi, about AntiRacist Babies….I hear Mr. Kendi struggles with Eurocentric math/accounting/logic.
Excellent.
(1) I think that everyone can agree that the supposed Holocaust would surely have been one of the most massive and remarkable events in the entire history of the world.
(2) The books by Lipstadt and Dawidowicz emphasized that a very long list of America’s top historians and academic scholars seemed to have been implicit or even explicit Holocaust Deniers for the first 15-20 years after WWII. What’s your explanation for this?
(3) During the early 1950s, Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle published their memoirs and histories of WWII totaling over 7,000 pages. No one reading those works would have ever suspected that the Holocaust had occurred just a few years earlier. What’s your explanation for that very strange omission?
(4) Prof. John Beaty had been a crucial figure in wartime Military Intelligence and his huge 1951 bestseller casually dismissed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda. The ADL and other groups ferociously attacked his book on every other issue, but never challenged his claims about the Holocaust. What’s your explanation?
I think he tried to do the right thing for Germany/Europe. I think he underestimated the levels of infiltration/influence of organized Jewry within the governments of England, and certainly, America, with its significant ethnic German population.
He seemed more honest and more admirable than SLBs FDR/WC. I think he preferred diplomacy/negotiations to violence, but sometimes force is the only option.
Fran, it’s not popular to say, but I’m really not overly concerned for the Palestinians. Of course, I don’t like to see the suffering of any child, but those children grow up to be hateful/resentful adults, who often wreak havoc in western nations, and Fran, why does Barbara Spectre want to flood Europe with Arabs and Africans? Can you explain that? I think this is another ploy to get more non-Europeans into Europe/America/Western nations.
I wouldn’t use the word perfidy to describe Israel’s actions, as they say often enough, and BiBi did recently – We will destroy Amalek! He said it, Fran, on air….what’s the difference between Amalek and Edom?
Or, (the Jews) could just stop behaving as they do, and come to the realization that we (the Gentiles) can manage just fine without their Guiding Light; we don’t want to be their cattle; people don’t get banished/sent away/deported again and again, centuries upon centuries, for no good reason at all.
“1) I think that everyone can agree that the supposed Holocaust would surely have been one of the most massive and remarkable events in the entire history of the world.”
No need to use the word “supposed here”.
“(2) The books by Lipstadt and Dawidowicz emphasized that a very long list of America’s top historians and academic scholars seemed to have been implicit or even explicit Holocaust Deniers for the first 15-20 years after WWII. What’s your explanation for this?”
Clearly you did not give even a cursory glance at the second source I provided since it addresses your inquiry.
—For the most part, early textbooks do not give the Holocaust its historical place in history. In the 1950s the Holocaust as a subject is not mentioned at all. There are small instances where under the heading of anti-Semitism there are references to the laws passed in Germany in the 1930s that deny certain rights to the Jewish population, while other accounts also include the Nuremburg Laws of 1938. As Holocaust scholar Eva Kolinsky wrote in her 1974 analysis of West German high school textbooks: “In the fifties, the textbooks treated the anti-Jewish measures after 1933 as a secondary topic. Most books devoted only one summary paragraph to the whole problem.”[2] These were fragments trying to depict a subject that requires a greater analysis of the events that constitute the Holocaust in order to convey the true meaning and to capture the magnitude of its effects in the history of humanity. “For over two decades some secondary school and college texts never mentioned the subject at all, while others treated it so summarily or vaguely as to fail to convey sufficient information about the events themselves or their historical significance.”[3] Both Kolinsky and Dawidowicz argue that the Holocaust was not discussed in textbooks to the degree that such an important event should be discussed and elaborated upon by historians.
The 1950s were a period with little or no mention on the Holocaust. Scholars such as Peter Novick argue that the reason was that most people wanted to distance themselves from a period which they associate with genocidal horror, which in turn evokes a sense of guilt, shame and distraught. Due to these reasons most people wanted to move away from the turbulent chapter in the twentieth century defined by the Holocaust. The distancing from the Holocaust is evident in textbooks from the 1950s. The 1950s texts do not mention the murders or the concentration camps. In essence the gruesome reality of the Holocaust is neglected. The texts in this period seem to focus on the civic lives that Jews were forced to live under the Third Reich. They briefly mention Jewish rights being taken away by decree of Hitler The brevity of the passages indicate that these events were considered secondary topics. Not until the 1960s do the victims of the Holocaust begin to be portrayed in gruesome depictions that we associate with the Holocaust, namely concentration camps such as Auschwitz, and accounts of murder.—
“(3) During the early 1950s, Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle published their memoirs and histories of WWII totaling over 7,000 pages. No one reading those works would have ever suspected that the Holocaust had occurred just a few years earlier. What’s your explanation for that very strange omission?”
Not strange at all. That is YOUR characterization. Do you have any evidence that strongly suggests they avoided the topic because they believed it did not occur? That is what you are implying.
A reasonable explanation is that all three may have wanted readers of their memoirs to focus on the WW2 and the victory (they are writing his history after all), rather than becoming involved in a controversy about the Holocaust justifying whatever comments they made in their memoirs.
Of course, who can ever forget that while Supreme Allied Commander, Eisenhower witnessed for himself the Nazi brutality at Ohrdruf concentration camp in April 1945. Bodies were piled like cordwood. Emaciated Jews hanging on for dear life. Do you deny this particular gruesome scene? Ike invited the media to document the scene and compelled Germans living in the surrounding area to see the spectacle themselves.
He starkly commented “The things I saw beggar description. … The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick … . I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
A reasonable person could conclude that Ike chose not to discuss the Holocaust in his memoirs due in part to this harrowing experience.
I have no ideas about de Gaulle.
Why don’t you ask their family members? Certainly with your connections and clout, you can learn more about their intent and motivations.
“(4) Prof. John Beaty had been a crucial figure in wartime Military Intelligence and his huge 1951 bestseller casually dismissed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda. The ADL and other groups ferociously attacked his book on every other issue, but never challenged his claims about the Holocaust. What’s your explanation?”
That’s quite the assertion. Perhaps you are willing to offer additional evidence regarding the ADL’s apparent silence on this matter? What is YOUR explanation.
It’s other than surprising that Beaty made those claims given this context.
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/804147
When, oh when, will we get a ‘Racist scum’ comment? I’ve felt, since about ten, that racists are the very worst of the worst, and this troll proves it over and over.
Melanie accusing others of ‘polemic crap’???!! Satire dies yet again!
Are you off your head?!?! Even when a country’s Government declares war, it does not follow that EVERY inhabitant of that country has declared war.
The Jewish boycott of Germany was proposed by some Jewish groups, and opposed by others. You remind me of a local Murdochite psycho who declared, hysterically, that by voting for the UNGA appeal for a truce in Gaza, that the Government was ‘…betraying EVERY Jew in Australia’, when thousands of Jews are opposed to Satan Yahoo’s genocide, and hundreds have marched against it.
“Their property was not seized and assets stolen.”
Well, actually, Franny, their property was stolen – by jewish gangsters. Maybe you should read some history instead of just hasbara briefing sheets.
Hey, Queen Esther, you’ve been awfully quiet lately. Do you disavow everything Vincent Bruno has to say about the Noahide Laws in this excellent interview?
Speaking with Vincent Bruno about the Noahide Laws
Video Link
Excerpt starting @ 1:02:07…
For the third time, do you disavow the Noahide Laws, Fran? Or are you a Jewish Supremacist?
You write to Ron Unz: “Of course, who can ever forget that while Supreme Allied Commander, Eisenhower witnessed for himself the Nazi brutality at Ohrdruf concentration camp in April 1945. Bodies were piled like cordwood. Emaciated Jews hanging on for dear life. Do you deny this particular gruesome scene? Ike invited the media to document the scene and compelled Germans living in the surrounding area to see the spectacle themselves.”
My response: Holocaust revisionists do not deny the gruesome scenes of large piles of dead bodies at Ohrdruf concentration camp in April 1945. What we contest is that these dead bodies were a result of a German program of mass murder or genocide.
When American and British forces took control of the German concentration camps, they were followed by military personnel charged with documenting evidence of German war crimes. One of these was Dr. Charles P. Larson, a leading American forensic pathologist, who performed autopsies at Dachau and some of its sub-camps. At Dachau Dr. Larson performed about 25 autopsies a day for 10 days and superficially examined another 300 to 1,000 bodies. He autopsied only those bodies that appeared to be questionable. Dr. Larson stated in regard to these autopsies at Dachau:
“Many of them died from typhus. Dachau’s crematoriums couldn’t keep up with the burning of the bodies. They did not have enough oil to keep the incinerators going. I found that a number of the victims had also died from tuberculosis. All of them were malnourished. The medical facilities were most inadequate. There was no sanitation…
A rumor going around Dachau after we got there was that many of the prisoners were poisoned. I did a lot of toxicological analysis to determine the facts and removed organs from a cross-section of about 30 to 40 bodies and sent them into Paris to the Army’s First Medical laboratory for analysis, since I lacked the proper facilities in the field. The reports came back negative. I could not find where any of these people had been poisoned. The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or another.…” (Source: McCallum, John Dennis, Crime Doctor, Mercer Island, WA: The Writing Works, Inc., 1978, pp. 60-61).
Dr. Larson did report that a number of inmates had been shot at some of the German camps and that the living conditions in the camps were atrocious. The average daily caloric intake of the inmates was far short of requirements, thus accounting for the extreme emaciation of many of the inmates. However, since Dr. Larson’s autopsy reports were inconsistent with a program of extermination or genocide, they were not introduced into evidence at the Nuremberg trials.
Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, was with U.S. forces at the end of World War II. Dr. Gordon determined that disease, and especially typhus, was the number one cause of death in the German camps. Dr. Gordon explained the causes for the outbreaks of disease and typhus as follows:
“Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them…
Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of population was occurring such as few times have experienced.” (Sources: Gordon, John E., “Louse-Borne Typhus Fever in the European Theater of Operations, U.S. Army, 1945,” in Moulton, Forest Ray, (ed.), Rickettsial Diseases of Man, Washington, D.C.: American Academy for the Advancement of Science, 1948, pp. 16-27. Quoted in Berg, Friedrich P., “Typhus and the Jews,” The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1988-89, pp. 444-447, and in Butz, Robert, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, Newport Beach, CA: Institute for Historical Review, 1993, pp. 46-47).
Dr. Russell Barton, an English physician who later became an American psychiatrist, entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student on May 2, 1945. Dr. Barton’s first impression of the camp was one of horror; some inmates were dead and piled up outside the huts, others were in various stages of dying, disease and dehydration. Barton examined the camp’s well-equipped kitchens and found record books listing the food that had been cooked and distributed going back to 1942. Dr. Barton determined from his examination of the camp records that there had been no deliberate policy of starvation at Bergen-Belsen.
Dr. Barton made inquiries with inmates, including Jewish doctors, who told him that Bergen-Belsen had not been too bad until the autumn of 1944. Then, as the Russian armies were advancing, the inmates said they had been given the choice of remaining in the camps about to be overrun by the Soviets or being repatriated back to Germany. Many chose to return to Germany. As a result, from the autumn of 1944 to early 1945, some 53,000 people were moved into Bergen-Belsen, which had room for only 3,000 inmates. The overcrowding was extreme and the staff at the camp resented it. Josef Kramer, the commandant of Bergen-Belsen, and Dr. Fritz Klein, the medical doctor at the camp, didn’t know what to do with the huge influx of inmates. Dr. Barton concluded that the horrific conditions at Bergen-Belsen were attributable to overcrowding and the collapse of the German economy at the end of the war rather than to an intentional program of extermination. (Source: Kulaszka, Barbara, (ed.), Did Six Million Really Die: Report of Evidence in the Canadian “False News” Trial of Ernst Zündel, Toronto: Samisdat Publishers Ltd., 1992, pp. 175-176).
So, Holocaust revisionists say that the virtual collapse of Germany’s food, transport, and public health systems and the extreme overcrowding in the German camps at the end of the war led to the catastrophe the Allied troops encountered when they entered the camps. The gruesome scenes that Eisenhower witnessed at Ohrdruf were not the result of a German program of mass extermination or genocide.
It should also be noted that Gen Dwight Eisenhower could have authorized the same public exposure of the lethal prisoner-of-war camps he ran in Germany. For obvious reasons he chose not to. The Allies made every effort to expose real or imagined German crimes, while hiding their murderous policies towards Germans after the war.
You do realize we are talking about Japan and Japanese Americans. Smoking a little too much reefer. WTF are you talking about.
When, oh when, will you open your eyes?
Yes, Bumblebrain, I’m an evil White racist. Boo hoo. Comment racist scum to your heart’s content.
Have you seen the current ad in Wales wherein two 12-14 year old girls promote immigration from Africa/Middle East into their country? Is it real? The journalist exposing the ad is an immigrant from Iran, for God’s sake. It’s almost impossible to believe, but so much meddling/distraction is rampant in western nations today, no one knows what’s really going on.
Grooming gangs in England aren’t comprised of English men, and when a Pakistani woman, who now lives in England, calls in to a broadcast to explain that this behavior is widespread amongst Pakistani men, in Pakistan, as well, what does Useful Idiot White guy say? He says her comment is…..racist!
Racist = meaningless today; racist = pattern recognition; racist = White; racist = violent crime statistics; racist = IQ tests; racist = advanced math; racist = any curriculum beyond the scope of indigenous ways of knowing; racist = White aircraft pilots/air traffic controllers.
So, pro-Hamas supporters in America are destroying Christmas displays and disrupting airports/traffic areas; Kanye West is now groveling to Jews for forgiveness; the Asian mayor of Boston throws a party for only non-white staff; grocery stores/pharmacies are looted/burned into numerous closures, so Blacks, supreme looters that they are, can complain about White Man efforts to NOT support their dying communities; Black kids, supreme stompers that they are, kill and maim white kids, the elderly, all over America and receive reduced charges for the sake of Equity; Muslim Mob Terrorizes Christmas Shoppers in Small, Peaceful Tennessee City; a new caravan of 15,000 black/brown/Asian people are on their way to the southern border……am I missing something? Yes, Ireland/Scotland/Canada are queuing up to accept Palestinian refugees.
Maybe Israel chose this specific moment in time to finish off non-Jews in Palestine because western nations have been mysteriously set ablaze in forests, factories, population centers; chemical spills are on the rise, as are vaccine schedules, and our countries have been sufficiently flooded with enough Muslims/South Asians who will stir things up politically, and keep immigration/refugee programs wide open, and we have plenty of African/Hatian/Mexican/South American immigrants to terrorize western people just enough to keep their focus elsewhere, and off of Israel and the Jewish/Israeli controlled government in America.
I see you have no problem hurling insults/truths at Melanie; if you think the Big Lie of the Holocaust and the ensuing changes to immigration policies, to ensure Never Again! was not deliberate, or at least it created a convenient opportunity to destroy White Gentile society, then you’ve stopped short at sufficient Holocaust analysis, and there is a reason that chronic immigration, be it from Eastern Europe or Africa, is destructive to a host nation – some people are just not compatible.
“Why do you condone such wanton lying/exaggerations?”
I don’t. You’re projecting.
“Why do you accept a story that varies wildly from witness to witness?”
You mean verified eyewitness accounts.
“Why do you accept a story that must be adjusted accordingly as time/evidence brings forth new facts/impossibilities?”
Wild generalization.
“Why do you accept a story that must be protected by legislation/criminal sanctions?”
Talk to officials as to the reasons why. Remember, free speech laws vary, and there is no such thing as unfettered free speech.
“therefore I needn’t bother.”
I know, because those links exposes your lies.
“I made the statement/assertion about lying witnesses.”
John and you made that assertion.
“If one witness is proven to be testifying falsely, to the extent the other witnesses offer the same testimony, under the same circumstances, they are ALL lying.”
It’s not as clean or simple as you both make it out to be. If part of the testimony for one eyewitness has been proven to be false, and four other witnesses also claimed it happened, then that part is thrown out. But when all five have their testimony verified and corroborated in other parts, then all are not lying. That’s how it works.
And, of course, you have to prove in each and every case that every single witness of Nazi atrocities is lying AND was coerced to falsely testify. Saying they were is merely speculation. That’s how it works.
“how does this testimony align with the testimony of Sonderkommandos Gabbai, Tauber, Nencel, Venezia?”
Of course there will be discrepancies and contradictions in such a monumental event. But that doesn’t automatically mean someone is lying, or that all eye witness accounts are thereby false. Overall, you piece together the facts. Venezia actually saw murdered victims alive and then, minutes later, dead. You now have to prove, not speculate, he was deliberately lying. Please show your work.
Why do you continue to waste your time reading (let alone replying to) utterly ridiculous Fran Taubman comments?
Please tell me.
“Well, I had a look at the references you cited; what a laugh!”
Doesn’t work that way. What specifically do you disagree with? Why?
“Van Pelt is on record in a Toronto newspaper that: “For 99% of what we know of the holocaust, no evidence exists.”
Here you need to show the exact quotation from the source for context.
“And this “worthy” teaches at my alma mater. I no longer support my school for this and other reasons.”
Red herring.
“Sturdy Colls and her findings are a laugh! What did she find? Tiles with a Jewish star on the back. Turns out those tiles had the trade mark of the manufacturer! No evidence whatsoever of millions, thousands, or dozens of buried corpses.”
Again, doesn’t work that way. I am engaging in dialectic conversation. Try to keep up.
“Verifiable forensic evidence = zero.”
You haven’t proven anything.
Actually, I think he’s probably some sort of fanatical Maoist because he claims the gigantic famine caused by Mao’s Great Leap Forward was just a hoax, jointly concocted by the CIA and the post-Mao government of China. I think that’s about his only unorthodox belief.
But fanatical Maoists need to earn a living, so probably the ADL or whatever pays him a modest stipend to also defend their own ridiculous beliefs. He’s certainly a hard worker, having published nearly 300,000 words of comments so far this year.
You cannot be serious?
First things first – Unz thread: Why are the Jews so Influential?
*Corvinus says:
*Accusations and speculations on his part.
*EVERY single one? No, he didn’t go into each case. The fact of the matter is that this direct eyewitness testimony of their own actions is irrefutable. So Wear tries to make an outlandish claim.
*Thanks for your projection.
*Corvinus says:
*Yes. And he has been debunked. I don’t expect you to believe it.
*That is outlandish on its face. You have to show proof in EVERY case.
*Corvinus says:
*And there it is, folks. Intellectual dishonesty at its finest. That is NOT how historiography works. You look at each case separately. You determine on its individual merits whether it is accurate or inaccurate, true or false, etc. You DO NOT merely and conveniently say “Well, since Situation A is a lie, any and all cases are therefore lies”, Rather, you investigate each and every case methodically.
*tttt says:
*Oh? The Holocaust is a single event. Please get cracking on the details of the six million cases.
*In a court of law, yes. Unless you’re tried at Cartoon Court in Nuremberg, in which case, only accusations are necessary/considered. History is not subject officially/legally to the same standards/procedures/consequences as civil/criminal process, as people/historians are not compelled to tell the truth, or they can/do lie by omission; offer personal interpretations; subjected to dated source material, etc., unless of course, you’re writing, in any way, in opposition to the official Holocaust narrative in many European countries, and Canada, where those particular historians are sent to History Dungeons for Crimes Against Jewish Plans to Destroy Edom/Amalek.
Corvinus says: Rather, you investigate each and every case methodically.
*If you knew anything about what has been done to refute the official narrative, you wouldn’t be making these silly suggestions/allegations. Do we need to speak to every resident of New Orleans to understand what happened during Hurricane Katrina? Sufficient corroborating evidence will do; scientific evidence confirms, etc. To be more specific, how many witnesses do we need to interview to determine the nature of the hellscape within the stadium-turned-refuge in New Orleans?
Corvinus says: The fact of the matter is that there were a plethora of eyewitness accounts
*The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot and Aliens in spacecraft; personally, I believe the Bigfoot People and the Alien People are more reliable/believable than the Holocaust People. Of course, the major difference is that both Bigfoot and Aliens can disappear of their own volition, whilst six million corpses can not.
*The fact of the matter is that you refuse to answer a single question I’ve put to you, which indicates you don’t have a clue about what you’re writing on, nor have you read the book.
*Absolutely no one says no Jews were killed/executed/died in a concentration camp.
Corvinus says: Again, you are ridiculously insisting that IF one witness was found to have lied, then ALL have lied. It doesn’t work that way.
*If one witness says – I watched as 3,500 persons were led into a chamber, they were gassed and they all died in 4-5 minutes, we pulled everyone out with a cane, and we sent the corpses up an elevator shaft, where they were stuffed 3-4 in one muffle – and this testimony is proven false/impossible, then every other witness who reports essentially the same story is LYING. There are contradictions….
Corvinus says: False equivalence. Hurricane Katrina had victims not human perpetrators but by a natural disaster…
*In this context, is there really a difference between a man-made disaster and one of a natural origin? Victims are victims. In point of fact, the organized nature of the camps should make the death count easier than one of a random nature. There are records of
deaths by shooting, execution/hanging, disease, but no record of death in a gas chamber.
The end of showing my work.
Please show your work.
“What we contest is that these dead bodies were a result of a German program of mass murder or genocide.”
They were, though.
“One of these was Dr. Charles P. Larson…”
This is the COMPLETE quotation, which lends support that there was a systematic effort to genocide. Why were they, including innocent children, put through this ordeal in the first place?
— The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another. However, we did probe into such questions as, ‘What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with them?’ Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then ordered to strip and take a ‘shower.’ Outside the building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then they’d blow the cyanide gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo’s opinion, were incorrigibles. But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi called them ‘mercy killings’ because there was no hope of them getting well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination was the answer.” (‘Crime Doctor,’ McCallum & Larson, p. 61. ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number
“Dr. John E. Gordon and Dr. Russell Barton”
Thanks to my archives for this cogent refutation.
—First off, letting hundreds of thousands of people intentionally die of disease and starvation from malicious neglect does not get the Nazis off the hook. The victims are just as dead whether they were gassed, shot, experimented on, starved, worked to death, beaten to death, or allowed to perish from disease.
Even if some camps, under some commanders, fell short of malicious neglect, does not take away their moral culpability. If you take away another person’s freedom, you are responsible for them. If they get sick and die because you put them in a camp with no effective public health, then their blood is still on their hands.
Blaming the Allies for the conditions in the camps is clearly misinformation. For example, in the Bergen-Belsen POW camp, at least 11,000 Allied POWs died of hunger and disease in the period July 1941 to January 1942, when Germany was still winning the war.
Secondly, there is an obvious case of bias here. “Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses.” — okay. Dachau was a labour camp — it was not an extermination camp. Although a gas chamber was built there, there is no evidence it was ever used. At least 28,000 people died at Dachau died, shot by the SS, or from disease, over-work and hunger, and medical experiments.
Likewise Bergen-Belsen was not part of the extermination camp system. It was part of the concentration camp system, and also used for POW. Most of the deaths in Bergen-Belsen were from neglect, hunger and disease. About 50,000 people died at Bergen-Belsen, including 13,000 people after the liberation by the British in 1945. You may be surprised to learn that people don’t instantly recover from disease and maltreatment overnight just because they have been liberated.
The Germans built 44,000 internment camps between their gaining power in 1933 and their defeat in 1945. They did not all exist at the same time. Some were prison camps for political prisoners, or forced-labour camps. Some were death camps set up to murder people in an industrial manner.
One, Theresienstadt, was built as a propaganda camp, to put a kindly face to the horrific reality. Some were mere holding camps used for people being transferred from one part of occupied Europe to another. There was no typical camp. At some, prisoners were intended to be exchanged for Germans interned in other countries, and they were well-treated and well-fed. In others, they were murdered on arrival.
It is cherry picking to single out the less-bad camps as if they were representative of all the camps.—
Eisenhower must have agreed with the later Holocaust revisionists, or else he would have simply endorsed the verdict at Nuremberg and maybe connected it to the scenes of piled bodies he witnessed at that concentration camp. Surely the mass murder of the Holocaust would have merited a mention in his war memoir if he actually believed it had occurred. As a General and future president, he presumably was an individual who was not afraid of recounting harrowing events.
The same goes for all the historians and European Studies scholars in America during the 1950s. At least ONE of them would have devoted a long article or a book to the Holocaust if it had actually happened. Many historians study and write about gruesome events for a living.
Yes, exactly, and thanks for the link to that article, which does a fine job of summarizing some of the same material found in the Lipstadt and Dawidowicz books. But unlike those, it’s online, so I can link to it in the future.
It looks like it was a term paper written by an undergrad taking a Holocaust Studies course at UCSB, and I would have given it an “A” or even an “A+”. The student thoroughly demonstrates that for almost the first twenty years after WWII, virtually no major historian nor standard history text recognized the reality of the Holocaust, with most of them ignoring it entirely. Since the fellow is just a student, he doesn’t draw any controversial conclusions from those basic facts.
Here’s a good analogy. Suppose a student taking a Transgender Studies course in 2040 wrote a paper pointing out that for many centuries every basic biological textbook had shockingly claimed that there were only two genders, male and female. However, by the late 2030s, new editions of these biology textbooks began correctly pointing out that there were actually 37 different genders, with the number steadily rising over time as our scientific expertise improved.
I made a simple factual statement. No one who carefully read the 7,000 pages of WWII histories and memoirs written by Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle would have ever suspected that any Nazi Holocaust had occurred during that conflict. You seem to agree with this, and others can decide for themselves whether your explanation seems plausible.
As I emphasized, the ADL and other Jewish activists ferociously attacked Beaty’s book on numerous other grounds, and given its huge sales, it also eventually attracted one or two very hostile academic reviews, highlighting all his supposed factual errors. However, none of those harsh critics ever challenged his explicit Holocaust Denial.
The obvious explanation is that almost nobody believed in the Holocaust in 1951, so Beaty’s dismissal of it as discredited wartime propaganda represented more or less the conventional wisdom.
If some right-winger had published a book in 1990 taking all sorts of right-wing positions but also casually mentioning that everyone was either male or female, I doubt that the many leftists who attacked him would have denounced his egregious “transphobia.”
You should ask that question to John Wear who always finds me and replies to my post, unrelated to him, after always ending each of our conversations while both of us agreeing never to speak to one another again.
Why is there an increase in hatred for Jews?
You’re the accuser therefore it is up to you to prove your allegations.
Please list the specific points in your references that show verifiable forensic evidence in support of your allegations.
“It looks like it was a term paper written by an undergrad taking a Holocaust Studies course at UCSB”
I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic here. The link o provided is a piece written by “John P. Jackson, Jr. a professor in the James Madison College of Public Affairs at Michigan State University. He specializes in the history, philosophy, and rhetoric of the scientific study of race. His work has appeared in Isis, Philosophy of Science, Rhetoric Society Quarterly, and other journals. He is the author or editor of six books, the most recent of which is Darwinism, Democracy and Race (Routledge, 2017) co-written with David Depew.”
“The student thoroughly demonstrates that for almost the first twenty years after WWII, virtually no major historian nor standard history text recognized the reality of the Holocaust”
You mean professor. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that those who came forward made up their experiences, or that there was a cover up of the event. It just meant that historians, those in the forensic sciences, and authors began a more earnest, exhaustive investigation into this monumental event. As a result, it led to the lay person to learn more about it and demand answers as to how and why it happened.
It is similar to that of how the general public became acutely aware of the problems associated with memtal institutions in the 1960s and 1970s. Researchers, the media, and various professionals intensely focused on the issue and made historic breakthroughs.
“No one who carefully read the 7,000 pages of WWII histories and memoirs written by Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle would have ever suspected that any Nazi Holocaust had occurred during that conflict”
Unless that person who read those memoirs was directly involved the WW2 and witnessed those atrocities themselves, OR had read accounts during the war about alleged Nazi extermination policies. Again, the explanation I provided is reasonable as to why the Holocaust was not covered by these men.
Moreover, what additional evidence regarding the ADL’s apparent silence on this matter? What is YOUR explanation? You didn’t address it specifically.
“If some right-winger had published a book in 1990 taking all sorts of right-wing positions but also casually mentioning that everyone was either male or female, I doubt that the many leftists who attacked him would have denounced his egregious “transphobia.””
Would you like some Grey Poupon for that red herring?
“The obvious explanation is that almost nobody believed in the Holocaust in 1951, so Beaty’s dismissal of it as discredited wartime propaganda represented more or less the conventional wisdom.”
The most obvious explanation is that it wasn’t covered extensively immediately after the war ended fir a host of reasons, as the link I provided made clear. So you are conveniently dismissing the cogent point I made. Once the ball got rolling, there was a deluge of meticulous sourcing.
Eisenhower later wrote, “I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however, that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.”
He went on:
—I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or the assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” . . . I not only did so but as soon as I returned to . . . headquarters that evening, I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion to leave no room for cynical doubt.—
You write: “Blaming the Allies for the conditions in the camps is clearly misinformation. For example, in the Bergen-Belsen POW camp, at least 11,000 Allied POWs died of hunger and disease in the period July 1941 to January 1942, when Germany was still winning the war.”
My response: Do you have any documentation for this statement? Were most of these deaths attributable to typhus? I have not heard of this, and will be glad to learn something new if you have documentation for your statement.
You write: “It is cherry picking to single out the less-bad camps as if they were representative of all the camps.—”
My response: There were no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German camps. This includes Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Chelmno, Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. I do not consider the camps in Germany to be less bad than the camps in Poland.
I have shown that you have no verifiable forensic evidence in support of any holocost allegations.
As the accuser it is your job to furnish such evidence.
I’m confused. The top of the webpage contains this heading:
https://marcuse.faculty.history.ucsb.edu/classes/133p/133p04papers/CMaganaTextbooks046.htm
So I assumed it was a “student research paper for History 133P written by Carlos Magaña in Spring 2004.”
I don’t see any mention of a Prof. John P. Jackson, Jr.
As for your other arguments, people can judge for themselves their plausibility. I don’t know anything about that the circumstances of that other Eisenhower quote, but his lengthy book was intended to help establish his place in history and he would have been very careful to exclude elements that would make him look ridiculous for future generations.
> That means all Jews!
It obviously did not mean the Board of Deputies of British Jews:
—–
The board also resisted the boycott of Germany and the formation of a protest movement against the persecution of German Jewry.
—–
— Israel Gutman, Editor-in-Chief, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Volume 1, p. 224.
Nor did it mean the American Jewish Committee:
—–
Therefore, the AJC opposed the anti-Nazi rally sponsored by the American Jewish Congress in March 1933, and refrained from joining similar rallies afterward. Similarly, the committee opposed the anti-Nazi boycott movement…
—–
— Ibid, p. 35.
You are really a sad man to continue without rhyme reason or by any rational standards of accountability the Germans treatment of the Jews and the US treatment of Japanese American citizens. Like really really sad.
One country ( can you guess) wanted to uproot every Jew from Europe intern them and transport them to another place outside of Europe to reside and on route killed between 5 to 6 million Jews. Are you out of your mind to think that this was due to the disloyalty of the Jews to Germany. Mien Kampf was written in 1928. There was already a declaration of war on the Jews so disloyalty would be normal. But Jews had no weapons or army. And really John the Jews went like lamps to the slaughter without much resistance.
The other country (can you guess) wanted to temporarily intern 100,000 Japanese Americans because the US was fighting a country called Japan. The US had no plans to expel these people or had any prior animosity towards Japanese Americans. It was precautionary. They Americans did not treat the interned Japanese Americans I inhumanely. The Germans treated the Jews as LESS THAN HUMANS.
Just sad your continued comparison of the two situations. The 120,000 Japanese survived. Millions of Jews died.
Do you understand inhumane. As a word as an ideology? As a German SS doctrine?
> I have the basic dates square
You simply practice incoherent rambling. Briain aligned itself with the USSR after June 22, 1941, at a time when it was widely presumed that the USSR was about to fall.
—–
Churchill’s approach to the Soviets in the first months of their involvement in the War seems indeed to have been entirely based on his initial twin assumptions: that the Soviets would soon leave the War and the Americans would soon join it. He accordingly showed no serious interest in sending British troops to fight alongside the Soviets… Gradually, however, Churchill was forced to recognize that his trust in the Americans might have been misplaced… Slowly then, Churchill was driven to take seriously the option of working more closely with the Soviet Union. For, against his expectations, the Soviets were still in the War by the autumn of 1941–even though most of their European territory had fallen to the Germans.
—–
— David Carlton, Churchill and the Soviet Union, pp. 85-6.
You know some people think my writing is so good I have a ghost writer or a team of writers from Tel Aviv to assist me. On more than one occasion I have been accused of not being the solo author of my posts. I am flattered. Also flattered that my writing bugs you so much you have cry to Ron like a cry baby. Typically on any thread I am on the posting goes past 900 postings. I think Ron likes that. Even if just see the crackpots write: “where is the forensic”, “not one item of proof . My favorite “Jews declare war on Germany”.
“I’m confused. The top of the webpage contains this heading:”
Let me please clarify.
The student research paper I linked to addressed your claim ““I’m still waiting for you to locate any mainstream discussion of the supposed Holocaust in the American publications of the 1950s.”
The link to Professor Jackson was in response to your claim ““(4) Prof. John Beaty had been a crucial figure in wartime Military Intelligence and his huge 1951 bestseller casually dismissed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda. The ADL and other groups ferociously attacked his book on every other issue, but never challenged his claims about the Holocaust. What’s your explanation?”
I would contend that Professor Jackson provides a compelling argument as to how and why there was early Holocaust denial post WW2 in light of concerted efforts to investigate Nazi plans to exterminate unwanted peoples.
“As for your other arguments, people can judge for themselves their plausibility”.
The question remains do YOU find them plausible? Why?
“and he would have been very careful to exclude elements that would make him look ridiculous for future generations.”
What elements are you talking about here?
Regardless, the fact of the matter is that Eisenhower made it abundantly clear that Nazi death camps existed, and laid the groundwork for future investigations about their origins.
“I have shown that you have no verifiable forensic evidence in support of any holocost allegations.”
You have shown me nothing of the sort.
“As the accuser it is your job to furnish such evidence.”
I did.
You write: “One country (can you guess) wanted to uproot every Jew from Europe intern them and transport them to another place outside of Europe to reside and on route killed between 5 to 6 million Jews.”
My response: The Germans did not kill 5 to 6 million Jews during World War II.
The similarities between the internment of Japanese-American civilians and Jewish civilians in German camps are as follows:
1. Both the United States and Germany interned their Japanese-American civilians and Jewish civilians, respectively, because they regarded them as a potential threat to their war effort. Both the Japanese-Americans and Jews were interned in these respective camps against their will.
2. Both the Japanese-Americans and the Jewish civilians were not subject to a program of mass extermination or genocide in these camps.
3. The Japanese-American civilians were still regarded as American civilians after the war. With the complete destruction of Germany, Jews could remain in Germany as German citizens or eventually emigrate and become citizens in dozens of countries around the world.
The difference in the internment of Japanese-American civilians in American camps and Jewish civilians in German camps is as follows:
1. Due to the breakdown of the German economy resulting from the Allied attacks against Germany by land, sea and air, the Jews experienced major shortages of food, unsatisfactory hygienic conditions, and a substantial death rate in the German camps. By contrast, the Japanese-American civilians typically had enough food to eat and did not suffer from a high death rate in the American camps. The difference in the death rates here was caused by the nature of the fighting in Germany and not by a policy of German genocide against the Jews.
> won’t work too hard on this assignment
Why should anyone “work hard” on such foolishness?
“locate any mainstream discussion of the supposed Holocaust in the American publications of the 1950s.”
He obviously doesn’t consider Reitlinger’s book, published by Vallentine, Mitchell & Co., Ltd., to be sufficiently “mainstream” for his satisfaction. But as a generous interpretation, that just shows nominally high IQ people can be really stupid sometimes. Why don’t provide me with some “mainstream” publications in the years 1918-33 which deal with the Armenians during the First World War? As far as I can find, all of the more prominent books on this subject were written several decades after 1918. The earliest major book relating to this subject that I’ve been able to find is the memoir of Henry Morgenthau, Sr.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador_Morgenthau%27s_Story
This isn’t actually a study of the treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. It’s just the memoirs of an Ambassador. All other books on the subject which I can find are written much later than Morgenthau’s memoirs. Why should that be surprising? It was traditionally normal for historians to wait an extended period before claiming to study recent events.
The post-WWII era is even more complicated than usual, because of the Cold War. After spending a few years going through postwar trials, the policy suddenly shifted to recruiting former German officers to collaborate with building a new NATO alliance. Only after the Cold War consensus had fractured in the 1960s did this change. There’s no reason to think that major academic publishers should have been in more of a rush to crank out relevant books than was the case.
> They were forced to go to these camps because the American military was afraid that at least some of them would work for Japan.
That’s a major difference from Germany. L0ng before anyone declared war in 1939, Hitler had been demanding that the world find some way to enable him to unload the German Jewish population. Can anyone find a record of Roosevelt thumping for a “Nippon-free America”? As far as I can tell, it was only when the war began that it was decided to intern Japanese-Americans. Even then, there was never any advocacy for “extirpating the Nippon.” It was simply claimed that security required a temporary internment for the duration of war.
Thanks for this. Yes it has become apparent that Ron is a crackpot H denier wrapped in some sort of pretentious intellectual garb. Truly the Emperor with no clothes. Your article is good and despite Ron’s hollow claims that Finkelstein does not know about the Holocaust is shite.
Why not cut thru the reams of meaningless essays and books and Ron’s incessant scream that because the Holocaust was not written about by Generals and Presidents in their auto biography’s or that it was not written about in the 1950’s and 1960’s that the Holocaust is a hoax. Even the word ”hoax” is a crackpot word.
One has to conclude that Ron is a psychologically damaged Jew hater. He misses the irony that every rabid Jew hating H denier on this site thinks that Hitler was on the correct track vis a vie the Jews. If only. Hitler did not finis the job and oh by the way the Holocaust was a hoax, because only the Jews could make it up. There is shakespearian irony in those ideas they should be dead (the Jews) but not dead, but invented the death that they should have had.
Ron in one day could ask Finkelstein about his family. Both his parents survived the Warsaw ghetto. Let’s just start right there. Numero uno of the Holocaust is the ghettoization of the Polish Jews the most famous being the Warsaw Ghetto. A good introduction to the ways and means the German’s used of dispose of the Jews.
Both Finkelstein’s maternal and paternal family were in Auschwitz and other camps and did not survive. We are talking uncles, cousins, grandparents everyone in Finkelstein’s extended family.
If Ron wanted to know the truth about the Holocaust he could ask Finkelstein or read the memoirs of another person he admires Israel Shayak. Shayak was a child survivor of the Holocaust.
Ron does not care about the Holocaust and neither do any of these other posters. The Holocaust denial movement is raisin d’etra of Jew hatred. One thing for sure, Ron is sadly behind modern pathologies of Jew haters their obsessions and discontents. They are a pathologically lost group of people that keep microscopically keep trying to find loopholes for their conspiracies and pathologies.
Below. Finkelstein accurately describes Holocaust deniers and their obsessions. I guess you can say unequivocally that Ron is full of shit.
Indeed, Allied strategic bombing of Germany as well as Germany’s overall collapse at the end of the war brought about a tremendous worsening of the camps conditions.
I would add that the near-skeletal bodies were often the result of various diseases which caused the prisoners to quickly loose weight.
For example, ‘B. M. McKelway inspected Buchenwald shortly after the U.S. takeover as one of a group of American newspaper editors and publishers. He reported that
At Belsen, the situation had become so bad, that even after the British takeover, and despite the brits having the necessary foodstuffs and medicine supplies(which the Germans did not have), prisoners continued to die like flies. Around 10% or more of the deaths in Belsen took place under British control.
Even Wikipedia, which is super msm, discloses some of that information:
Problem is the Jews unlike the Japanese had no homes to go back to. In any of the occupied German countries. Their houses, all of their personal property, their possessions, money etc WAS GONE. Stolen by SS officers.
The Japanese had all of their property, assets, and houses to go home to.
Do you see a big difference in those two situations? This is true of Hungary? Poland, France. All Jewish property was illegally stolen and seized by the Germans. Even the Jews who had valuable art, ended up in the hands of important Germans. The Germans stole everything from the Jews. To this da. Valuable artwork illegally seized thru third markets is returned to Jewish families.
Many Jews did try to return to their homes only to find them occupied by others. Impossible to get back.
Did the US steal from the Japanese. Germans were thieves.
You should look at yourself in the mirror first, Zionist scum!
TANTURA – ISRAELI DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE TANTURA VILLAGE MASSACRE, 1948 War.
Tantura was a Palestinian village where Zionist forces committed war crimes, just one of the many dozens of massacres carried out during the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 48.
Former Zionist soldiers who took part in the massacre, old men now, talk about the crimes. Some talk about murder and rape while smiling/laughing.
When we see what Israel is doing right now in Gaza, what they have always done, since even before the war of 1948, it makes one think; the way they demonize their enemies as terrorists and monsters, whether Palestinians or others, tells us much more about themselves than anything else.
A circulating video shows an Israeli soldier bragging about killing Palestinian babies and children in Gaza.
I know exactly what you are talking about, and what happened to their property. Frankly, I’m surprised you brought the subject up since, once you get beyond the wikipedia understanding of what happened it doesn’t reflect at all well on the jews.
Horst Mahler on the Jewish Question
Video Link
Description:
Excerpt starting @ 1:03:08…
Well, I’ve said my piece and will let others decide.
You write: “L0ng before anyone declared war in 1939, Hitler had been demanding that the world find some way to enable him to unload the German Jewish population.”
My response: You are making a correct statement here.
Like so many other national leaders before him, Hitler had wanted to rid Germany of Jews either through emigration or deportation. Do you know why so many other nations before Hitler had wanted Jews to leave their countries? Do you think this says anything about Jews and their behavior?
Here I beg to differ with you, Mr Wear, as such ‘similar attacks’ had occurred once before on American soil, and with not dissimilar results.
I’m speaking of the North’s war against the South in the US Civil War of 1861-65, and the complete blockade by the North of all food and medicine (labeled ‘contraband’) from entering the South.
This blockade, combined with the defeat of the Southern armies in the field in 1863 and after, ie Gettysburg and Vicksburg, and importantly, the abject refusal of the North to exchange prisoners in 1864 and after, figuring that with or without the exchanges the North could make good it’s human losses while the South couldn’t, resulted in disastrous conditions developing in the South’s ever more overcrowded Union POW camps, in particular the largest one with it’s nearby rail depot, Andersonville.
During the latter stages of the war this human disaster was cynically used by the North as a moral cudgel against the ‘barbarous’ Southerners’. It was said the deaths of the Union prisoners was ‘designed’ and ‘planned by the collapsing South, that the innoculations against disease administered to the Union POWs as a humanitarian health gesture, was in reality a diabolical instrument of mass murder, ie ‘poisonous injections’, that the commandant of the Andersonville camp, Henry Wirz, would personally shoot prisoners down for sport, and, that leather goods were manufactured from the human skin of the ‘murdered’ prisoners.
The clear intention after the war had been that after a series of Northern show trials the entirety of the upper echelons of the South’s political and military leadership were to have been executed (ie hanged) for ‘crimes against humanity’ in regards to ‘the camps’. Had it not been for Henry Wirz’s principaled stand for the truth, ie his refusal to lie about this matter, thus sacrificing his own life, these plans would likely have come to fruition.
While today it is generally quietly acknowledged that while POW’s in both the North and South did indeed die in comparable all too high of numbers for a variety of reasons, there had been no planned mass murder of anyone by starvation, no poisonous injections, no leather goods manufactured from the human skin of the ‘murdered’ POW’s, and no crazy camp commandant shooting prisoners for kicks. Even so, for decades after the war through about 1900, the defeated Southerners were mercilessly harassed about ‘the camps’, and ‘the cattle cars’, in the mass media of the day.
Some very important people of the WWII era, ie, Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower, and Stalin, amongst others, who had come of age prior to 1900, would likely have remembered these fraudulent stories about ‘the camps’ of the Southern Confederacy, and the next time, much unlike the weak and squeamish US North of circa 1865 in it’s political dealings with the defeated South, would ‘follow through’ in regards to a defeated Germany.
“Do you have any documentation for this statement? Were most of these deaths attributable to typhus? I have not heard of this, and will be glad to learn something new if you have documentation for your statement.”
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/bergen-belsen
“There were no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German camps.”
Indeed there were. But now you are deflecting from specifically addressing my last post.
This bears repeating, and I see why you don’t acknowledge this fact.
—First off, letting hundreds of thousands of people intentionally die of disease and starvation from malicious neglect does not get the Nazis off the hook. The victims are just as dead whether they were gassed, shot, experimented on, starved, worked to death, beaten to death, or allowed to perish from disease.
Even if some camps, under some commanders, fell short of malicious neglect, does not take away their moral culpability. If you take away another person’s freedom, you are responsible for them. If they get sick and die because you put them in a camp with no effective public health, then their blood is still on their hands.—
You write: “Here I beg to differ with you, Mr Wear, as such ‘similar attacks’ had occurred once before on American soil, and with not dissimilar results.”
My response: I was referring in my comment to the time during World War II. No such similar attacks ever occurred on American soil during World War II. The American Civil War obviously occurred long before World War II.
What are you talking about?
The Jres stole American Japanese houses?
You write: “This bears repeating, and I see why you don’t acknowledge this fact.
—First off, letting hundreds of thousands of people intentionally die of disease and starvation from malicious neglect does not get the Nazis off the hook. The victims are just as dead whether they were gassed, shot, experimented on, starved, worked to death, beaten to death, or allowed to perish from disease.”
My response: The Germans did not let “hundreds of thousands of people intentionally die of disease and starvation from malicious neglect” during World War II.
Evidence exists that the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered measures to reduce the deaths of inmates due to disease.
For example, on December 28, 1942, SS officer Richard Glücks, who was the head of the camp administration office, sent a directive to commandants of the concentration camps. It ordered that “…camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps…The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor sites are improved as much as possible.” The directive also stressed that “the Reichsführer SS [Heinrich Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced.” (Source: Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2, NC&A (The “red series”), Vol. 4, pp. 833-834).
Glücks followed up his directive in January of 1943 by informing the concentration camp commandants, “As I have already pointed out, every means must be used to lower the death rate in the camps.” (Source: Document NO-1523, NMT ( The “green series”), Vol. 5, pp. 372-373).
German camp administrator Oswald Pohl, in an order dated October 26, 1943, gave specific measures to ensure the health and productivity of the internees of the camps. A copy of the order was sent to Himmler. Pohl began by stating the importance of the camps in the war effort. In addition to stressing the importance of proper nutrition, clothing, and rest, Pohl specified that ill prisoners were to receive a special diet to help restore their health. (Source: Pohl order to camp commandants, Oct. 26, 1943. Bundesarchiv (Koblenz), Bestand SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt. Signatur NS 3/386. Sammlung von Verwaltungsanordnungen, insbes. KL).
Eduard Wirths, M.D. became the garrison physician of Auschwitz on September 6, 1942. Upon his arrival at Auschwitz, Wirths reported that there were more than 6,000 cases of typhoid fever and more than 30,000 cases of typhus. By upgrading the barracks, establishing new clinics, installing water pipes, erecting additional toilet facilities, and improving antiseptic measures, Wirths succeeded at least temporarily in suppressing the epidemics. (Source: Mattogno, Carlo, Healthcare in Auschwitz: Medical Care and Special Treatment of Registered Inmates, Uckfield, UK: Castle Hill Publishers, October 2016, pp. 221-222).
At Christmas 1943, the Auschwitz inmates showed Wirths their appreciation by writing him a card that read: “In the past year you have saved the lives of 93,000 people. We do not have the right to express our wishes to you. So, we wish to ourselves that you will remain here in the coming year. One for the prisoners of Auschwitz.”
This Christmas thank-you card cannot be reconciled with the belief that Dr. Wirths participated in the mass extermination of Jews in homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Obviously, the inmates at Auschwitz would not have given Dr. Wirths a Christmas thank-you card if Wirths had participated in the mass extermination of Jews. (Source: Ibid., pp. 222-223).
After the war, numerous Auschwitz inmates praised Dr. Wirths. The testimony of Irena Idkowiak is typical:
“I testify hereby that Dr. Wirths always exerted himself most humanely in the interests of the prisoners and that thousands of prisoners remain alive on the score of his selfless efforts. This was acknowledged universally by us prisoners. His dedication went even so far that the wives of SS men complained that he gave prisoners priority over them.” (Source: Ibid., p. 223).
Germany also built highly sophisticated and expensive disinfestation facilities at Auschwitz-Birkenau to kill lice and save inmate lives. By one estimate, the SS at Auschwitz spent almost $1 billion in today’s values to bring the typhus epidemics raging there under control. (Source: Rudolf, Germar, The Chemistry of Auschwitz: The Technology and Toxicology of Zyklon B and the Gas Chambers—A Crime-Scene Investigation, Uckfield, Great Britain: Castle Hill Publishers, 2017, pp. 175, 293).
Unfortunately, some German Commandants were corrupt, but these corrupt Commandants were typically dealt with by German authorities. For example, Karl Koch, the first Commandant of Buchenwald, ran Buchenwald from 1937 until early 1942 when he was transferred to Majdanek. Koch was a brutal and greedy administrator who enriched himself with valuables stolen from the inmates. Together with Dr. Waldemar Hoven and the Communist underground camp organization, Koch murdered many inmates to cover up his thefts. Koch was eventually charged by an SS court with committing murder and theft, and was found guilty and executed. (Source: Nuremberg testimony of Günther Reinecke, Aug. 7, 1946. Published in the IMT “blue series,” Vol. 20, pp. 438, 441-442).
So, I am not saying that no crimes were ever committed in the German camps during World War II. I am saying that hundreds of thousands of inmates did not die in the German camps either by malicious neglect or by a German program of genocide against the Jews.
You write: “Problem is the Jews unlike the Japanese had no homes to go back to. In any of the occupied German countries. Their houses, all of their personal property, their possessions, money etc WAS GONE. Stolen by SS officers.”
My response: Many Jews had homes to go back to after World War II. Since the Allies won the war, Jews could go back to the homes they had lived in prior to and during the war. This is true even if their homes and other property had been stolen by Germans during the war.
A much greater example of theft occurred after the war when approximately 15 million ethnic Germans were forced by the Allies to leave their homes. These millions of German expellees lost all of their real estate and most of their personal property and were never compensated by the Allies. Instead, they had to live in abject poverty in Germany after the expulsion from their homes. Millions of other Germans had their property stolen or destroyed by Allied soldiers. The Allied postwar treatment of Germany is surely one of the most brutal, criminal, and unreported tragedies in world history.
It should also be noted that, as we have discussed on previous Unz discussion threads, Jews have received large amounts of reparations from Germany after the war. If anyone has an interest, you can read my article at http://www.wearswar.com/2022/12/15/holocaust-reparations/, which details the reparations received by Jews after the war.
To prove his supposition wrong? To discover the truth?
I spent years reading the mainstream information; when I first read of alternate opinions on the official story, I turned primarily to the eyewitness testimony. It is not uncommon for witnesses at the scene of an event to vary, somewhat, in testimony, but in most circumstances, the stories will align, or the causes of the discrepancies can be easily determined, if the testimony is truthful.
So, what are the discrepancies indicative of falsehoods?
* An eyewitness claims there were no children alive in the camp, as they were unfit for work, and they were all killed within an hour of arrival, yet another witness states that she arrived to the camp as a 10 year old child, and worked in the kitchen; her image is among the photos of other children, also interred at the camp upon liberation. Both witnesses were at the same camp, at the same time, so someone is lying, Pretzel, yet neither rescinds nor retracts their testimony. In this particular case, the photographs reveal who lied and who spoke the truth. Yet, who lied never stopped lying, did she?
* Witnesses who claim to be Jewish, born into a Jewish family, in a Jewish neighborhood/village, cannot describe, in any significant detail, anything whatsoever indicative of Jewish traditions, i.e., they claim they had a bar mitzvah, yet have no ability to accurately describe the event.
* We pulled corpses with canes; no, we dragged them out by their wrists; yes, there were masks; no, there were no masks, but the gas made us scream; the corpses were black and blue (not a single witness correctly described the cherry-red color of a human killed by cyanide poison, as far as I have read/heard)…..it was true in my mind…I dreamed of apples, therefore I did not lie, because in my mind, it was true….on and on, and this is but a fraction of the ridiculous fabrications, scientific repudiations, notwithstanding.
There’s no point beating this dead horse, but it is highly unlikely, if the allegations were true – of infants and children tossed alive into raging fires, and entire families, by the thousands, stuffed into gas chambers that accommodate only 500, day after day, there would have been utter chaos at the camps, as panic and resistance would surely have set in, and upon liberation, the survivors would have been shouting from the rooftops about what had happened, and they certainly would have been leading their liberators to the mass graves of millions of peoples buried in shallow graves, or scattered among the grounds. This idea of a silence for shame for decades afterwards is ridiculous.
Do you know what else is ridiculous, Pretzel? Georgia burned, and well yes, some people wrote about it decades after it happened, as historians often do, to be sure, but the reports of the burning/conflicts that were made at the time of the occurrences were factually correct overall, and they were all possible within space and time (to quote Ms. Franny); the reports were nearly identical among various witnesses, and the facts/allegations were easily verified/confirmed. There was no haggling over the veracity of the stories, because they actually occurred, and not just in the minds of the people in Georgia, but out in the open, for the world to see, partly because evidence of destruction does not just disappear, or normally get stuck in sacred burial grounds, never to be disturbed, and apparently Georgians were not too ashamed to tell.
If Winston Churchill believed he had defeated the “maniac” responsible for the near complete annihilation of members of the group to which he was beholden, he damn sure would’ve crowed/wrote about it until the day he died.
I’m sorry, you misread my views. I agree 100% with Ron’s view re: the Holocaust. It’s totally rational. Why are their so many survivors? Like Norman’s mother? Why did so many concentration camp inmates go with their guards when the Soviets were advancing? Why was the euthanasia of the disabled voluminously documented, but documents of an extermination campaign vastly larger completely absent? All the engineering complaints about purported gas chambers? A hundred other valid points, with nothing definitive pointing the other way?
It’s obviously all a screen to give license to Israel and nationalistic Jews worldwide cover to do anything they want. Just like now, the lies about beheaded babies, and who burned up all those Jewish cars and bombarded those Jewish homes on Oct 7 (it was the IDF, clearly, by the nature of the damage). A screen to let the Zionists destroy the civilian population of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
My grandfather was murdered, individually, for the usual kind of savagery that erupts in any kind of ethnically based land dispute. (The Croat nationalists seceded from their hated Serb-run Yugoslavia, just like the Galician nationalists in Ukraine now hate any Russian influence.) That’s believable. The fairy-tales of the official narrative? Not at all. Further, my grandfather’s murder is no reason to go on a Croat killing spree. Some of their Croatian neighbors helped them, as well as some German soldiers.
And I thought Norman’s reply confirmed he knew nothing about it, other than his personal family’s stories. No specifics in his reply.
Medieval Jew hatred is a field of study on its own. Judaism being the first of the Abrahamic religions to accept the one divine God (non pagan) in the Bible refused to accept Jesus as the savior of the world.
Medieval pagans were illiterate and superstitious. The Catholic Church used the Jews as a recruitment tool. To follow Jesus or be cast out like the Jews. The church also accused the Jews of killing Jesus. If you combined this with the limitations put upon the Jews for employment, and the inability to join armies, or participate in civil jobs. You have a witches be of Jew hatred. Every Easter the Jews would go into hiding.
This is also true of Islam and Judaism. Dating back to a riff between two brothers Issac and Ishmael. Each thinking that they are the true inheritors of the land of Israel. The Jews refused to accept the Mohammed as the final prophet from god. Islam claims that the Jewish scribes were corrupt and wrote the bible text incorrectly. Therefore as like the Christian’s they are to be cast out. They are cast away from god.
Unfortunately for the Jews being the first behind the other two Christianity and Islam has set them up for being “outcasts”. There is no inherent behavior of the Jews that has caused them to be kicked out. They have the same rate of good and bad as other peoples and religions. They are as a people no more corrupt than other people.
To prove this point that this is all about religion. The Catholic Church has assumed much of the blame for Medieval Jew hatred, that led to the Holocaust. Hitler just used and expanded on false medieval precepts about the Jews from the church. The church has restructured their accusations removing the murder of Jesus from the Jews to the Romans. The rift the medieval hatred is gone and Jews and Christians are united, and together.
Islam is far behind in reconciling their hatred of the Jews. Islam acts out in childish ways. It is their way or the infidels must be eliminated. Islam is not just a religion it is a political system. A socialist theocratic political system run my religious mullahs with no separation of church and state. That is why they hate democracy and capitalism, especially the west’s freedoms for women.
Christianity and Judaism both accept other prophets and roads of religion. The Hindus have had similar problems with Islam. That is why Pakistan was created. I am hoping something like that happens in the ME. No Palestinian state will be in Israel. It will have to be created as part of Egypt or Jordan. Like a three state solution. Other ME countries must also accept Palestinians that wish to immigrate to other Arab countries.
This entire Palestinian people is BS. In 1948. The Arab League had no intention of setting up an independent Palestinian state. Arab countries killed the Palestinian leaders wanting independence. Jordan wanted it and fought Egypt for it.
You might say that the Jews are”special needs” people needing their own sovereignty to escape irrational religious hatred. The fight over there has nothing to do with land it goes back to two brothers. Islam does not want one Jew in Israel not a one.
You need to check out other sites. You are stuck on the civil war. UR is about Jews and wars. Not the civil war. Your posts are so out of place.
This post is for S not John Wear.
It’s not very complicated. A far larger number of people read the comments than actively participate in the discussion, so all of us should be assuming that what we are writing is mostly aimed at that invisible audience.
A sparring partner, especially an incompetent one, may provide us excellent opportunities to present some important facts to those silent readers.
Your credibility, which you would obviously like to have enough weight to move readers away from “the tradional Holocaust narrative” can hardly survive your failure to debate someone like David Cole when you are now willing to spend so much time in video chats with the likes of Mike Whitney, Kevin Barrett et al.
You should also pay attention to FOIA. If you are not prepared to use it to subject your ideas to testing you might at least tell us about the great conspiratorial undermining of FOI as a valid resource.
No they couldn’t.
Thanks for the clarification and thanks also for pointing me to the 2021 Jackson article. Since Prof. Jackson had barely mentioned Prof. Beaty’s book, I hadn’t paid much attention to it, but I’ve now gone back and carefully read the entire piece, which really is very solidly-researched and comprehensive. Although nothing he said surprised to me, his extensive archival research certainly filled in many gaps in that important intellectual history, including items I’d sometimes wondered about. Obviously, his “spin” is very different than my own, but his factual material is invaluable, and I’ll definitely keep his article at hand for future reference.
That being said, he doesn’t really address the Holocaust issue itself. He simply assumes that the Holocaust happened and that all the prominent academic scholars who claimed otherwise were simply deluded for various ideological reasons. He also seems unaware of the fact that virtually no mainstream historians seemed to recognize the reality of the Holocaust during the 1950s, just as that student had explained in his term paper.
His only reference to Beaty is extremely glancing. He doesn’t seem aware that Beaty had explicitly dismissed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda, nor that Beaty had been a crucial figure in our wartime Military Intelligence. Since you’d originally cited the Jackson article with regard to Beaty, that’s the reason I didn’t pay much attention to it.
Whether misread your comment or not. Finkelstein knows what happened to his family. He knows about Auschwitz as a killing center.
Ron could very well ask him if the Holocaust was a hoax. In the article he says that it was not. The fact that his parents survive bed means nothing Otto Frank was the only survivor of his family and everyone who he was in hiding with
Unfortunately, it sounds like you never even bothered reading the article on which you’re currently commenting. I closed my piece with a brief discussion of the sordid history of David L. Bazelon:
American Pravda: The Power of Organized Crime
How a Young Syndicate Lawyer from Chicago Earned a Fortune Looting the Property of the Japanese-Americans, then Lived Happily Ever After as America’s Most Respected Civil Libertarian Federal Appellate Court Judge
Ron Unz • The Unz Review • July 15, 2019 • 13,000 Words
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/
You write about my statement that many Jews could go to their homes after World War II: “No they couldn’t.”
My response: So, what prevented many Jews from going back to their homes after World War II? Assuming their homes were not destroyed during the Allied bombing attacks, many Jews should have been able to return to their homes.
That’s a very strange complaint, which you’ve repeatedly made. As far as I know, David Cole is just a high school dropout who became a minor celebrity during the 1990s as “the Jewish Holocaust Denier.”
On a visit to Auschwitz, he supposedly brought along a hidden camera and by emphasizing that he was Jewish, he successfully tricked the director into admitting that the gas chambers had been built afterwards and the total number of deaths had been far lower than the official 4 million figure. This got Cole invited onto various daytime TV shows like Montel Williams, which catered to all sorts of freaks and eccentrics, and more importantly forced the embarrassed Auschwitz officials to change their public plaque.
However, after angry Jewish activists threatened his life, Cole faked his own death and then resurfaced as a right-wing Republican activist. After his identity was eventually revealed, he declared he’d changed his mind and now believed in the Holocaust, thereby keeping his activist career alive.
So he’s just a right-wing Jewish pundit and provocateur, and I’m not aware of a single analytical article he’s ever written on the Holocaust or anything else. The closest I can find is that 30 years ago he did give a short speech at a Holocaust Denial conference summarizing some of the main points of those researchers.
If I’m mistaken, please point me to his two or three best articles on the Holocaust and I’ll gladly take a look.
“I am saying that hundreds of thousands of inmates did not die in the German camps either by malicious neglect or by a German program of genocide against the Jews”
That is patently false. The Jews should never have bee.n brought there against their will in the first place. Moreover, it is abundantly clear those directives you listed were consistently ignored.
Regarding Dr. Wirth, ONE inmate there wrote to thank him for improving the wretched conditions. They wanted him to stay because he was somewhat more humane than his predecessor. Of course, you fail to offer the full story about Dr. Wirth.
—Wirth was involved in ordering medical experimentation, particularly in gynecological and typhus-related experimental tests. Wirths’s primary research concerned pre-cancerous growths of the cervix. Wirths was also interested in the sterilization of women, by removing their ovaries through surgery or radiation. It is generally acknowledged that he himself never directly participated in such experiments but delegated their conduct to subordinates. The victims of these experiments were Jewish women who had been imprisoned in Block 10 of the main camp in Auschwitz.[8]
E.W.J. Pearce, an Associate Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Truman Medical Center has made the following observation regarding Wirths’ medical experiments: “. . . Wirths, without consent, photographed the cervices of women prisoners, then amputated the pictured cervices, and sent both photographs and specimens for study to Dr. Hinselmann of Berlin”. Hinselmann was the physician who developed colposcopy…
Witness testimony given at the Trial of Adolf Eichmann provided a useful insight into how the SS approached the issue of how to record the deaths of Auschwitz prisoners (this did not include those who had been immediately selected for gassing – their admission was simply not recorded in the death registers). Those who died while imprisoned at Auschwitz were always recorded as having died from natural causes and never from being executed or murdered,—
This is what you do. You do not provide the key details which undermines your overall contention that the Holocaust never happened.
Georgia burnt? And you are comparing that event to the Holocaust? How long did it take for Georgia to burn? The Holocaust happened over 5 years involving people from different nationalities and languages. The situation in each occupied country unique covering vast amounts of countries and land. You expect to get the same answers?
Do you have a better example because this Georgia burning is piss poor.
What I said regarding time and space is that you have people in 1942 describing the gassing procedure, where the medical truck with an SS doctor pulls up…. The same description by someone else in 1943. And finally Hoss at Nuremberg described verbatim the sequence of events for Zykon B gassing. So how could someone from the past predict the future and someone in the present know what someone said in a diary that had not as yet been discovered??? And that would include the people telling Hoss what to say. The same is true if the Sondercommando Tuaber describing exactly the steel shudders for the side gassing windows in the walls in crematorium 4. Where. The gassing rooms were above ground. These shudders were found by Pressac as they had been made in the camp workshop with labor reports and specifications. You just study eye rolls. Tauber described two types of shutters one where two people were needed to open it an a redesign where one person could open the shutters. And lo and behold Pressac showed both shutter designs. All with documentation.
How do you explain the time, space continuum. The Jews are magical. Time travel??
Well I apologize to Peanut butter I knew nothing of this tale. But per usual your massive reads produce relatively few verifiable facts you never second source claims about people. I found zero corroboration of the claims Russo made of Bazelon, or the other Jews. That Bazelon seized billions of assets and distributing it to other Jews. I found zero.
You also wildly inflate the Japanese assets. Of the 120,000 American Japanese people interned there was a total of 47 million in assets. Many of the Japanese Americans interned got their land back. My word Ron you sound like an outsized Holocaust survivor, making shit up.
Below The NY Times review of Mr. Russo’s book. This not historically accurate. This is a gossip book, with the same theme. The hidden Jews. Bazelon had a fine reputation as a judge and did a lot for the rights of the mentally ill. I sure am glad I am the incompetent one.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/books/review/Cohen.t.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I simply practice repeating WW2/Hitler According to Pretzel’s Nutshell. It’s an exercise in creative writing, just like the efforts of Elie Wiesel, et al. And, it wasn’t incoherent, as you obviously understood my meaning, yes?
Do you really believe this? While I think the Brits and the French were worried about getting spanked by Germany, once again, they certainly knew what SLBFDR was up to – cooking up all sorts of plots and ploys to get in on the war in Europe, with Secret Maps and covert submarine chases, and needling Japan at every opportunity – anyway, I read somewhere that the US loaned the Soviets $ 50 million before the Lend/Lease; I wasn’t able to find any corroborating data, but I don’t doubt it was true. I don’t think it was ever presumed that the US would not swoop in at some point; I suppose the question of when/how was the concern.
Clearly, Hitler did manage to surprise the Soviets, and stun the perfidious western nations, who may not have been aware of just how serious, or rather how well-prepared, Stalin was about acquiring more than just Poland and a few Baltic states. What Hitler learned, if he didn’t already know – no good deed goes unpunished, especially with the MolochPeople and their minions.
Oh, really? He couldn’t just ring up the ole’ SLB and ask what’s cookin’?
Do you really believe the Germans were expected to squash all of Soviet Russia/Ukraine in a few months? What a load of Kwanzaa, Pretzel. Or is this Breitbart?
The persecution of the Jews, a great crime and tragedy, lasted five years. In contrast, the Zionazi genocide of the Palestinians, now eaching a frenzy of hatred, rage, self-pity, villainous lying, and child murder, of which you STRONGLY approve as a good ‘Holy’ person, has lasted seventy-five years, so far.
I wasn’t as clear as I should of been which was entirely my mistake.
The point of my post was that the entire scenario of the Nuremberg Trials, ie a country which had been made to ‘unconditionally surrender’, the establishment of a military tribunal by the victor to try the defeated foe via a series of show trials for ‘crimes against humanity’, and ‘war crimes’, and then once the largely pre-determined ‘guilty’ verdicts had been pronounced, to execute (by hanging) the bulk of the upper echelons of the defeated foe’s political and military leadership for these ‘crimes’, had already had a trial run at the conclusion of the US Civil War.
The false accusations about planned mass murder at Auschwitz, it’s ‘poison gas chambers’, and it’s ‘crazed commandant’ who shot prisoners for sport, had it’s genesis with the false murderous accusations about Andersonville, it’s ‘poisonous injections’, and it’s commandant Henry Wirz.
The critical takeaway is that now, albeit quietly, the accusations of planned mass murder at Andersonville and the other Southern camps is generally acknowledged to have been untrue. And as stated, future critical WWII Allied leaders, ie Roosevelt (born 1882), Churchill (born 1874), Eisenhower (born 1890), and Stalin (born 1878), would very likely have remembered the wild stories about the ‘cattle cars’ and ‘the camps’ that circulated in the mass media about the defeated and prostrate South for decades after the war.
Being that it was US president Harry Truman who announced the formation of an international military tribunal on May 2, 1945 in San Francisco, that about two thirds of the thousand employees at Nuremberg in early 1946 were from the US, that the bulk of the prosecutorial effort was US led, and that while nominally a British judge was president of the Nuremberg tribunal, in practice it was US judge Francis Biddle who exercised more authority, it behooves us to know about the parallel events of eighty years prior involving the defeated South and the victorious US North.
There is a reason those events are undertaught today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials
No comparison, per se; there was a previous conversation/reference to the history of the civil war (Sherman’s March) and how long did it take to ascertain what happened, and when did writers/journalists/historians begin writing/investigating the specific details thereof, etc. That Sherman marched; the route taken; the various conflicts along the way; the scorched-earth destruction of rails/bridges/mills, confiscation of civilian assets, numerous refugees, etc., were described and verified with little variation by multiple sources at the time of occurrence, not decades later.
No, not necessarily. But, most of the testimony, or a large majority that’s been published, or widely presented, concerns Auschwitz-Birkenau, and Treblinka/Eastern European camps, which were dismantled by the Germans and/or liberated by the Soviets. So, the testimony from people at camps with no or little remaining documents, no remaining structures or sneakily rebuilt structures, etc., can’t be easily verified/confirmed, and is therefore primarily hearsay or rumor, or – where did they all go? It seems rather convenient that all physical evidence was destroyed and/or buried in sacred ground that can’t be excavated, and those camps are where the current/primary focus remains.
I expect every inmate residing in a camp, wherein living children/infants were tossed into fire pits raging within a stone’s throw from their barracks, to be aware of the occurrence, yet most do not mention it in testimony, or if they are prompted/asked about it, they then say – oh yes, that happened!
I expect the testimony of the Sonderkommandos, who claimed to have worked at A-B during the same time period, more or less, to be mostly the same, but it varies wildly; I expect Jewish men, regardless of origin, to be able to describe Jewish cultural practices with some accuracy, but some prominent witnesses do not/can not; I expect the basic laws of physics/science/chemistry/thermo-dynamics to apply to the chambers/crematoriums, but they do not.
I expect that the eyewitnesses to the greatest atrocities in all of human history would sing like canaries the minute they were “liberated” in order to capture every shred of available evidence. But, they didn’t.
I’m not sure I understand your meaning, but we do need an eye-roll button – I wonder where Burdhouse Bahner went off to?
Tauber was one of the worst witnesses I’ve ever seen/heard. The man screamed if he was pressed on any details, or he began rambling in a foreign language, suddenly losing his ability to speak English. He was a nightmare, and he couldn’t describe how his buddy, Nencel, managed to separate the fat from the bodies burning in outdoor trenches to use for fuel for the flames; to be fair, I don’t think Tauber was asked that question, but neither was Nencel when he spoke on it, and I expected an immediate question – How did you collect the fat? No one asked. No one ever really asks those type of pointed questions.
The context in which I used that term was – what was alleged to have happened was certainly what would have/could have happened at that particular place and at that particular point in time. Unlike, say, thermal laser beams blasting corpses to ashes in 15 minutes flat in 1942-1945, and Blood Geysers, or near millions of bodies buried, then excavated in a rather short period of time with no remains/traces to be found.
I don’t have a note of any particular strong analyses of Holucaust matters by Cole and I would concede that I’m offering/suggesting an easy path to enhanced credibility because Cole is not in your class for cultivated intellectual discipline, but he is a smart guy with some skills as a controversialist and I would expect him to prepare himself seriously for a debate on the Holocaust in which you denied that there were no gas chambers to kill useless eaters, that Nazi policy in the end was to eliminate Jews, if necessary by death, from German occupied Europe and that the Germans and their allies and vassals killed more than a few hundred thousand Jews because they were Jews.
I evidently failed to click on Save after making corrections to the following final passage
as follows
you [affirmed] denied that there were [no] gas chambers to kill useless eaters, that Nazi policy in the end was to eliminate Jews, if necessary by death, from German occupied Europe and that the Germans and their allies and vassals killed [no] more than a few hundred thousand Jews because they were Jews.
You write: “Regarding Dr. Wirth, ONE inmate there wrote to thank him for improving the wretched conditions. They wanted him to stay because he was somewhat more humane than his predecessor. Of course, you fail to offer the full story about Dr. Wirth.”
My response: You are correct that I did not provide the full story about Dr. Wirth in my comment #944. I only provided the testimony of one inmate at Auschwitz-Birkenau that praised Dr. Wirth.
Carlo Mattogno, in his book “Healthcare in Auschwitz”, lists the testimonies of several additional inmates as to the good deeds and humanity of Dr. Wirth. Mattogno also quotes Hermann Langbein as to the good deeds of Dr. Wirth at Auschwitz-Birkenau. (Source: Mattogno, Carlo, Healthcare in Auschwitz: Medical Care and Special Treatment of Registered Inmates, Uckfield, UK: Castle Hill Publishers, October 2016, pp. 221-223).
There was a substantial amout of illegal medical experimentation in the German camps during World War II. I write about some of these illegal medical experiments in the first part of Chapter Nine of my book “Germany’s War” on pages 392-406. You can read this information for free on this website at https://www.unz.com/book/john_wear__germanys-war/. I do not deny that illegal medical experiments occurred in many of the German camps during World War II.
You write: “Witness testimony given at the Trial of Adolf Eichmann provided a useful insight into how the SS approached the issue of how to record the deaths of Auschwitz prisoners (this did not include those who had been immediately selected for gassing – their admission was simply not recorded in the death registers). Those who died while imprisoned at Auschwitz were always recorded as having died from natural causes and never from being executed or murdered,—”
My response: An important piece of evidence arguing against the existence of homicidal gas chambers and a German program of mass extermination is that the British broke the ultra-secret Enigma code used by the Germans to transmit secret communications. During 1942 and 1943 British intelligence intercepted daily coded messages from Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau, and seven other camps. Every day the Germans recorded the numbers of dead and the method of death at each camp. The transmissions from Auschwitz mentioned illness as the primary cause of death, but also reported deaths attributable to shootings and hangings. There was no reference to homicidal gassings as a cause of death in any of the decoded messages. (Source: Hinsley, Frank H., British Intelligence in the Second World War: Its Influence on Strategy and Operations, New York: Cambridge University Press, 1984, Vol. 2, Appendix 5, “The German Police Cyphers,” p. 673).
I trust these ultra-secret Enigma code messages intercepted by the British more than I do eyewitnesses at the Adolf Eichmann trial.
You write: “This is what you do. You do not provide the key details which undermines your overall contention that the Holocaust never happened.”
My response: Holocaust revisionists such as myself state the following: 1) there were no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German concentration camps; 2) Germany did not have a program of genocide against the Jews; and 3) the standard estimate of 6 million Jews who died during World War II is a ridiculous exaggeration. I think anyone who studied this subject objectively would reach the same conclusions.
Okay, so it sounds like you agree that Cole is a high school dropout and right-wing pundit who has never written anything about the Holocaust, and probably doesn’t know anything about the issues involved in the thirty years since he stopped being invited to daytime TV shout-shows. But you think it’s crucial that I “debate” him on that subject.
I sometimes say rather harsh things about your intelligence. But surely you can understand the basis for my critical statements.
Look, you’re a total ignoramus. I obviously was describing the present-day value of the dollar-assets that the Japanese had lost due to their internment, and relative to the incomes of eighty years ago, there’s a factor of about 50 involved. It’s been four or five years since I read the Russo books, but I think the assets they lost were worth about the present-day equivalent of around $2 billion at the time.
Furthermore, many of those assets were California land in prime locations that became exponentially more valuable during the generations that followed as the state’s population mushroomed, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the current value of their lost land were $50 billion or even $100 billion.
Russo’s two books run around 1,200 pages with thousands of footnotes and have been lavishly praised by some of our most highly-regarded writers on organized crime. In fact, they’re probably among the best works ever written on that subject.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/
The critical NYT you cite is by Rich Cohen, who published a short book on Jewish gangsters that I’ve also read, with most of his material being doubtful and anecdotal, lacking a single footnote. I’m sure you haven’t read the Cohen book or probably even heard of him, and his main criticism of Russo seems to be the “antisemitic” implications of the latter’s 1,200 pages of heavily-researched findings.
You obviously know as little about organized crime in America as you do about the Holocaust.
Didn’t that “debate” already take place?
The Great Unz-Cole Holocaust Debate
https://counter-currents.com/2018/09/the-great-unz-cole-holocaust-debate/
My posts are right where they belong.
This thread, and the particular posts I have responded to, in large part involve the Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust. My posts about the defeated South’s Civil War era POW camps, in particular Andersonville and it’s commanding officer Henry Wirz, and the false allegations of planned mass murder which swirled around them, not to mention the farcical US government response, add critical and much needed context to understanding the specific subject at hand.
See comment link below for elaboration…
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-6335816
Your first below post in bold in response to my asking Pranja about what he meant by Jewish criminals looting assets from Japanese Americans from the war, is a bold face lie. You are nothing but a propagandist taking threads to weave a rug.
1, the Japanese American assets were seized by the US government agency not by Jewish criminals.
2. The agency was called
There were many appointed heads who ran the agency. One was David Bazelon.
3. The agency heads were political appointments I doubt a president is going pick a mop lawyer working for the mob syndicate of Al Capone to be the head of a government asset management agency. Duh!
4. I can find no evidence that Bazelon was a crime syndicate lawyer. I do not care how many footnotes Russo has.
5. The FBI was looking at the seizures of German assets mostly Patents and property law. The German assets were where the billions ( back then) were. The Japanese assets were small potatoes compared to IG Farben. Each appointed head had questionable management decisions. See below the managers and questions behind this bureaucracy.
6. Look at the assets seized after the death of Nikola Telsa who died in a hotel room. All his assets were seized by wait for it. A non Jew named Leo Crowley. Not only was Telsa a US citizen, his portfolio and patents were quadrupled what ever the Japanese Americans real estate holdings were worth.
You are a propagandist. If you were not you could clear up whether the Holocaust was a “hoax” in one interview with Norman Finkelstein. Let him tell you how his family was gassed and cremated.
Not only a propagandist, but a bold face liar. Bazelon seized zero Japanese land. The US government seized those properties and Bazelon was running the agency in charge of selling the assets. How he profited is another story. But I sure would not trust you or Russo to tell it. What Cohen was sayin in his NYT review was that all ethnic groups have criminal mobs and underground’s. Russo made it seem that it was all Jews all the time calling them Ashkenazi’s a racial slur. It was and is not true. Just see what the other heads of Aloen properties who were not Jewish did with the assets.
You are correct I know nothing about organized crime. I do recognize lies and liars when I see them
After beginning his career as a young mob-lawyer for Al Capone’s Chicago Syndicate, he had then played a central role in looting the property of the dispossessed Japanese-Americans of California and distributing their billions of dollars worth of seized assets to other Jewish families with Syndicate ties on extremely favorable terms, while becoming very wealthy through the huge kickbacks he collected. Thus, during exactly the same years that Zionist settlers were dispossessing and looting the property of the unfortunate inhabitants of Palestine on racial grounds, their Jewish cousins in America were doing much the same thing to a different group within the United
This is a blatant lie. Bazelon did not seize Japanese American assets.
Thanks. I hadn’t been aware of that Spencer Quinn piece and had forgotten my casual email exchange with Cole five years ago. Apparently, Cole put it up on the Internet at the time, but the link no longer works, so apparently he later took it down, perhaps out of embarrassment.
Although Cole is just a high school dropout and I’ve never read any serious article that’s he published on any subject, I vaguely recall that he mostly ranted and raved and spewed forth a vast quantity of crude insults. Naturally, he never responded to any of the many substantive points I raised challenging the Holocaust in our correspondence. Also, based upon Quinn’s account, I think some of the arguments Cole raised were totally fallacious. Here’s Quinn’s summary of the Holocaust debating technique of that high school dropout:
I think one reason for Cole’s outrage was that just a year or two earlier, he’d apparently published a column declaring that “Holocaust Denial is dead!” so he obviously wasn’t happy with my lengthy analysis that came to a very different conclusion.
I wonder if our friend “the Wizard” still believes that a debate with Cole on the Holocaust would be useful.
I do take issue with some of Quinn’s criticism of my article as being ineffective in its critique of the Holocaust. I suspect he said this because I avoided the traditional, extremely technical details regarding gassing and cremation that are eye-glazing (or more likely stomach-churning). As I’ve emphasized, I don’t have the years or decades of technical expertise to properly raise those issues and then defend myself against the counter-arguments that would inevitably follow.
However, I did cite and reference some of the very technical books on exactly those points, and explained why I found them convincing. Meanwhile, a large portion of my text focused primarily upon very different sorts of arguments that I myself had originated and think have considerable advantages, simplicity being among them. Anyway, a review article running less than 18,000 words can’t possibly be as comprehensive as a book more than ten times as long.
In fact, some time after I published my big article one of the leading technical experts on Holocaust Denial dropped me a very friendly note saying that he thought my article was one of the best and most comprehensive ever written on the subject. And indeed, I’ve never come across any similar such article.
One important point I should emphasize is that pretty much all my articles, that one included, are aimed at “normies.” Meanwhile, probably 95% of Holocaust Denial literature is aimed at Holocaust activists, who are a totally different audience.
I’m certainly aware of all the stupid points you raised, some of which are correct but irrelevant. I obviously never claimed that Bazelon himself seized the Japanese assets, but merely that he managed to establish himself as the key figure in distributing them, selling them on extremely favorable terms to his fellow Jewish members of the Chicago Syndicate, who paid him gigantic kickbacks in return.
I covered all of this history at considerable length in my 2019 article and if you’re too lazy to bother reading it, I’ll just have to give up on you. It’s bad enough that you’re stupid and ignorant, but being lazy in addition tips the scales:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/
The surprising evidence of your failures of memory, and limitation of sources, should encourage you to waste less time making insulting and often false references to other commenters’ arguments and abilities.
There really are problems with your now, much more than 5 years ago, being so dismissive of traditional versions of the Holocaust because your express propagandists of normies rather than taking on the experts leaves you open to devastating defeat – if not by David Cole.
Just one proof that you couldn’t obfuscate of gassing the useless eaters on arrival at a concentration camp would just about sink you and tar your credibility on many other issues – such as 9/11.
Also, if a careful accounting for Jewish numbers throughout Europe before and after 1940 showed a deficit that at minimum showed that more than 1.5 million Jews must have met premature violent death puts you on a borderline where you can argue only for the merit of showing up the Holocaust industry’s exaggerations. But your figures now seem to expose you to ridicule even in a debate with David Cole unless you are going to arbitrarily rule out Einsatzgruppen and Baltic police killings.
Given your admitted limitations in what you have been prepared to swat up what terms of debate would be fair to you – if not to the cause of definitively pinning down facts which are generally believed to found the Holocaust essential narrative?
Am I right to infer that you are not willing to qualify/prepare yourself for a debate on the Holocaust which would allow you to meet the standard of an expert witness called to testify that it was untrue to say that Nazi policy on Jews led to the deaths, because they were Jews, of more than 100,000 [or whatever] people?
So my points were stupid, correct but irrelevant? Oh how so?
Let me recap:
In a post to John Wear about Jewish property seized by Germans that the Jews could not retrieve after the war. I then (unknowingly) falsely claimed that the Japanese Americans could retrieve their property after the war. Their property was not seized, but they could not pay taxes. Some hired managers others lost their land.
Pranja said that Jewish crime syndicates stole Japanese American property. When I asked in another post what he was referring to, you chimed about Jewish crime families looting Japanese Americans, and my ignorance about this crime.
This is your quote, which clearly claims that Jewish crime syndicates directly seized Japanese American property and received illegal or illicit gains from it. You used the word looting which is a criminal term. That is what Pranja thought and said. That Jews stole Japanese American land.
After beginning his career as a young mob-lawyer for Al Capone’s Chicago Syndicate, he had then played a central role in looting the property of the dispossessed Japanese-Americans of California and distributing their billions of dollars worth of seized assets to other Jewish families with Syndicate ties on extremely favorable terms
I maybe lazy but I did enough research to prove you’re a liar. Of the 120,000 interned American Japanese. There were 88,000 properties, mostly small pieces of land. Not worth that much. The large assets were German You failed to mention THE ESSENTIAL point that Bazelon was a government employee not part of a crime syndicate.
And you most certainly indicated that a Jewish American looted the property of Japanese American False as false could be. Look at what Pranja took away from your lying propaganda.
You also wrote in the same post that at that the same time Jews were steeling Japanese Americans land. Jews in Palestine were stealing Arab land. I doubt you know anything about this subject. How much land did Moses Montifore buy from absentee Ottoman Sheiks at absorbent prices? Or how much land did the Jewish National fund purchase. How much land did the collective farmers the Bedouin Arabs own. They did not believe in paying taxes and had no land titles.
I went back to Stephen Quinn’s NYT article and I see why you have adopted the long boring reply technique to dis courage people from reading it despite its unaccountably judging the exchange as One All for Cole and Unz, largely it seems because Cole ended up with an insulting rant against you. On the substance of evidence based debate on the Holocaust Quinn holds you up as the lightweight.
Well, here are several relevant paragraphs from my long article, all based upon Russo’s exhaustive archival research:
Since you’re just an ignorant dimwit, your current homework assignment is to read my entire long article. Once you do, I’ll be glad to answer any claims of mine that you dispute. Until you do, I have better things to do with my time than answer your stupid questions:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/
Well, I only very vaguely knew who David Cole was, and all he did was send me a couple of ranting, insulting emails five years ago. Lots and lots of people have sent me ranting, insulting emails over the years, so why should I remember him in particular?
Given that a ranting high school dropout was your favored figure to challenge me on the Holocaust, feel free to recruit someone else of greater scholarly stature and I’d be very consider to consider a debate.
But I think you’ll have a very difficult time. If you’d bothered actually reading my Holocaust Denial article, you’d know that mainstream Holocaust believers absolutely refuse to ever debate Holocaust Deniers. For example, Deborah Lipstadt is probably the most prominent such figure and here’s what she wrote in the opening paragraph of the first chapter of her book Denying the Holocaust:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#deborah-lipstadt-and-holocaust-denial
That seems somewhat high to me. I think back in the 1990s, David Irving guesstimated that total Jewish deaths had been around 1 million, and he’s vastly more of an expert than I am. But if I had to guess, here would be my breakdown:
(1) Something like 200K-250K Jews died in the concentration camps, almost all of them from disease until the Germans saved the lives of the rest with Zyklon-B. For example the Jewish deaths at Auschwitz were around 99% below the traditional figure.
(2) Supposedly around 200,000 Jews died fighting in the Soviet army.
(3) Stalin supposedly deported very large numbers of Polish Jews to Siberia, maybe a million or more. Stalinist deportations were pretty “rough” so maybe a couple of hundred thousand Jews died in that process.
(4) When Stalin seized the Baltic States and other territories in 1939, the local Jews had supposedly been very heavily involved in assisting the Soviet massacre of the local Gentiles. So when the Germans regained those areas, the local Gentiles massacred the Jews right back. Certainly many, many tens of thousands of Jews were killed.
(5) Jews were very heavily involved in anti-German partisan activities, so the Germans killed large numbers of them. Who knows how many?
Let me repeat, I’m absolutely no expert on these sorts of questions and would entirely defer to those researchers who have spent years or decades studying the issue.
However, I think I can say with considerable confidence that except for total dimwits, anyone who spends any serious time and effort investigating the Holocaust will quickly conclude it’s basically just a hoax.
Since you greatly prefer watching videos to reading long articles or books, I strongly suggest you consider some of the ones I linked upthread, which seem among the best of them:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-6333508
I would have said a simple thanks at this point but you couldn’t help yourself regurgitating your sneer about videos which never was justified but now require real chutzpah since you have been won over to video.
So, as well as thanking you for setting up some sort of case capable of being challenged I note that you continue to ignore what Quinn said were Cole’s very good well researched arguments or even the suggestion that he is capable of them.
You don’t seem to see a problem about Jews in the Soviet Union being treated even worse than Palestinians in Gaza because of guilt by association – in lieu of actually being able to find and kill active partisans. Does anyone deny mass killings of Jews of all ages sexes and occupations by or under the Nazis, because they were Jeiws?
Why do you have a problem in believing that, even in Europe, genicidal hate and violence was still quite natural to the largely Malthusian societies of prolific breeders that the lands of Goethe, Schiller, Beehoven and Tolstoy, Pilushkin and Herzen still were? Why do you have a problem that mere nerdish amorality could lead to adoption and spread of lethal gassing?
“Obviously, his “spin” is very different than my own,”
There is no “spin” on Dr. Jackson’s part, just a measured interpretation.
“He simply assumes that the Holocaust happened”
It did occur. No ansumption on his part.
“and that all the prominent academic scholars who claimed otherwise were simply deluded for various ideological reasons.”
That’s your “spin”. He did not draw that conclusion. Dr. Jackson is acutely aware of the reasons why prominent historians post WW2 did not rigorously pursue learning more about the Holocaust. He cogently presenter the origins of Holocaust denial.
“His only reference to Beaty is extremely glancing.”
Recall what prompted me to link to Dr. Jackson in the first place.
—That’s quite the assertion. Perhaps you are willing to offer additional evidence regarding the ADL’s apparent silence on this matter? What is YOUR explanation. It’s other than surprising that Beaty made those claims given this context.—-
“He doesn’t seem aware that Beaty had explicitly dismissed the Holocaust as ridiculous wartime propaganda”
Except we know conclusively that the death camp he visited, compliments of General Eisenhower, that it wasn’t. True, he did not refer to it in those exact way, but given his knowledge of warfare he had a distinct notion that something larger was afoot. That is why he wanted the media and the general public to become aware of it.
“Let me repeat, I’m absolutely no expert on these sorts of questions and would entirely defer to those researchers who have spent years or decades studying the issue. However, I think I can say with considerable confidence that except for total dimwits, anyone who spends any serious time and effort investigating the Holocaust will quickly conclude it’s basically just a hoax.”
Hypocritical on your part.
You ask: “Does anyone deny mass killings of Jews of all ages sexes and occupations by or under the Nazis, because they were Jeiws [sic]?”
My response: Yes, I do.
On the Eastern front, the Einsatzgruppen and other German military units did shoot a large number of Jews. However, this was part of their anti-partisan fighting. Jewish Princeton University historian Arno Mayer summarizes his view of the mass shootings carried out by the Einsatzgruppen in the Soviet Union:
“Even so, and notwithstanding the unparalleled magnitude of the Jewish suffering, the extermination of eastern Jewry never became the chief objective of Barbarossa. The fight for Lebensraum and against bolshevism was neither a pretext nor an expedient for the killing of Jews. Nor was it a mere smoke screen to disguise the Jewish massacres as reprisals against partisans. The assault on the Jews was unquestionably intertwined with the assault on bolshevism from the very outset. But this is not to say that it was the dominant strand in the hybrid ‘Judeobolshevism’ that Barbarossa targeted for destruction. In fact, the war against the Jews was a graft onto or a parasite upon the eastern campaign, which always remained its host, even or especially once it became mired deep in Russia.
When they set forth on their mission, the Einsatzgruppen and the RSHA were not given the extermination of Jews as their principal, let alone their only, assignment.” (Source: Mayer, Arno, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? The ‘Final Solution’ in History, New York: Pantheon Books, 1988, p. 270).
In Mayer’s analysis, the massacres of the eastern Jews were not part of a comprehensive plan of extermination. Rather, the killing of Jews in the Soviet Union occurred as the result of the inexorable radicalization of the war in the east, and because many Soviet Jews were classified by the SS as carriers of Bolshevism. (Source: Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 208).
There were also no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German camps during World War II. Reports, articles, testimony, books and videos from Fred Leuchter, Walter Lüftl, Germar Rudolf, Friedrich Paul Berg, Dr. William B. Lindsey, Carlo Mattogno, John C. Ball, Dr. Arthur Robert Butz, Dr. Nicholas Kollerstrom, Dr. Robert Faurisson, Wolfgang Fröhlich, Dr. Ing Franco Deana, Dr. James H. Fetzer, Richard Krege, Arnulf Neumaier, Cyrus Cox and David Cole have conclusively shown that there were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau or any other German camps.
National-Socialist Germany did not have a program of mass murder or genocide against Jews. Jews definitely suffered tremendous hardships during World War II, and many Jews died from mostly natural causes during the war. However, Germany did not engage in mass killings of Jews merely because they were Jews.
Mr. Oz, what is this bee in your bonnet over David Cole?
Did you watch the footage of his interview on Donahue in 1994? Donahue is/was a tool, to be sure, but David is/was high-strung, and quite young; he cracked under the pressure, and walked out (off camera), and left his debate partner, whose name I don’t recall, to face that insufferable, self-righteous, condescending, boob – Donahue, alone, as well as to face a hostile audience, and a few crying, elderly, Jewish women who claimed to be victims. In any case, wasn’t Cole subsequently attacked and beaten/hospitalized?
Clearly, Cole suffered greatly, as many revisionists do/did. Below are excerpts of two interviews of David Cole; take note of his progress to a complete recantation, which in the second interview, it seems his reversal was based on emotions, rather than facts.
B’NAI BRITH CANADA – David Cole, June 15, 1995:
As I told Bradley in a recent letter, my association with the revisionist “movement” was always conditional; I share very little or nothing in common with any of these people except for a desire to probe the unanswered questions regarding the Holocaust. The minute I felt I could no longer trust the revisionists to be genuinely interested in getting to the truth of the gas chamber / genocide story was the minute I was out the door. As far as I’m concerned now, I’m no more in their “camp” than the “exterminationist” one. This may sound foolish to the smug anti-revisionists of the ‘net, who are probably bursting with sarcastic laughter that I would have EVER really thought that the revisionists had integrity. But back in the real world, it must be understood that both Mark Weber and David Irving are highly competent World War Two historians…
And I think that my film clips from Majdanek (which I showed on “Donahue”) might also have some positive effects; I’ve been told by a “little bird” (a usually reliable little bird) that there’s a chance that the Majdanek Museum might soon jettison one or all of their “homicidal” gas chambers. Last year, when I met with Majdanek Museum Curator Tomasz Kranz, he seemed ready to do that with their largest “homicidal” (actually delousing) gas chamber. I’m not a betting man, but I’d wager that, more than any concerns about historical accuracy, the major concern of the Majdanek Museum is that without “gas chambers” to view, no one would have any reason to travel to Lublin!
B’NAI BRITH CANADA – THE STATEMENT OF DAVID COLE , Prepared January 2, 1998
This statement is given in an attempt to set the record straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier [a self-described “revisionist”]. For the last three years I have no longer been associated with this movement, having realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to distance myself from that life.
However, in that shame-induced silence, it has now been brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I should have to make a clear and complete public statement in order to set the record straight as to where I stand.
It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that task.
I would like to state for the record that there is no question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe’s Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in gas chambers which employed such poison gasses as Zyklon B and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is overwhelming and unmistakable.
The Nazis intended to kill all the Jews of Europe, and the final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million. This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never be forgotten.
During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with self-hate and loathing, a fact that many of my critics were quick to point out. Indeed, this self-hatred was obvious to most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened, thanks to several good, kind friends who had refused to give up on me even when I was at my worst, I was horrified at what I had done. My instinct was to flee….
Mr. Unz has repeatedly said he does not hold himself to be an expert on the subject matter, nor has he devoted decades of his life to study, as clearly you have not, nor do you appear to even think/write critically on the subject. You are all over the place, Mr. Oz.
Why don’t you listen to some eyewitness testimony? Jewess Agi Day, who remained in hiding in Czechoslovakia during the war, who said the Germans weren’t so bad compared to the Soviets, and whose father was residing in the countryside with the Russians, by the way, says she escaped to Austria, the Allied sector, of course, as Bolsheviks were shooting and starving everyone in Budapest; whilst residing in a displaced-persons camp in a ski resort, she snuck into a gathering, held in a tent on the grounds, wherein a film of all the Nazi atrocities, including the gold teeth pulling, etc., was shown to all of the potential future holocaust witnesses.
Go ahead, Mr. Oz, listen to their cockamamie stories, but every once in awhile the actual truth drops if you pay attention; one witness in particular, who escaped to America with her entire family long before September of 1939, still claims she is a holocaust survivor, and although her poor mother had to support their family by selling eggs, they still managed to summer in the Hamptons in New York…. they received letters and postcards from extended family in Theresienstadt, all of whom also managed to survive.
“Carlo Mattogno, in his book “Healthcare in Auschwitz”, lists the testimonies of several additional inmates as to the good deeds and humanity of Dr. Wirth”
Yes, given the horrific conditions they experienced, which was purposely and malicious in its intent. It is other than surprising that they weee hopeful that they would be less brutalized, which isn’t humane or a good deed in the least.
Dr. Wirth was part of a regime who took people from their homes against their will, and he conducted gruesome experiments.
“Every day the Germans recorded the numbers of dead and the method of death at each camp”
Given what we know, the Germans lied.
“I trust these ultra-secret Enigma code messages intercepted by the British more than I do eyewitnesses at the Adolf Eichmann trial.”
In your opinion.
But the overwhelming historical evidence conclusively demonstrates there were gas chambers in concentration camps.
Thanks for that long reposting which does not exonerate you from your original posting of unmitigated lies and propaganda.
You should take Wiz’s advice to post fresh facts rather than insulting and name calling commenters that challenge the data in your articles. Your arrogance is stupefying given your overtly long exhausting articles containing nothing but light weight propaganda.
I have no intention of reading your propaganda, on Jewish crimes and criminal syndicates to shore up your Jew hatred. I have more important things to do servicing a career twice as important as your career will ever be. In future generations my work will be auctioned off and mind boggling prices, and discussed in art history classes. Having already been published on merit alone. Soon to be in major museum collections. You Ron will always be known as a thread bare light weight propagandist, in support of ridiculous Jew conspiracies. How is the Covid as an American bio weapon working out?
Someone should take you down for good Ron and expose who you really are, a nut job.
Since you’re just an ignorant dimwit, your current homework assignment is to read my entire long article. Once you do, I’ll be glad to answer any claims of mine that you dispute. Until you do, I have better things to do with my time and answer your stupid questions:.
I never had questions or posed questions to you about your article on Jewish crimes and criminal behavior. You insinuated yourself into a posting of mine to another commentator where my question was directed to him Pranja not to you.
You quote me: “Every day the Germans recorded the numbers of dead and the method of death at each camp” and then write “Given what we know, the Germans lied.”
My response: The transmissions from Auschwitz-Birkenau were made via the ultra-secret Enigma code used by the Germans to transmit secret communications. The Germans would have no reason to lie to themselves in their top-secret communications.
You write: “But the overwhelming historical evidence conclusively demonstrates there were gas chambers in concentration camps.”
My response: Actually, the overwhelming historical evidence conclusively demonstrates that there were no homicidal gas chambers in any of the German concentration camps. This is why so many countries make it a felony to dispute the official Holocaust narrative.
That’s rich!
A Jewish Supremacist who believes that every word of the Torah was uttered by Hashem is calling a Jewish Humanist a nut job.
I think he is a Jew hater just like you without the bubble gum, and gummy bears.
Why haven’t you shown your work?
You do. I project nothing. You are one of the most ridiculous commenters on Unz.
Oh? Verified by whom exactly? As you said, each individual case must be properly evaluated on its merits.
Dario Gabbai said he dragged thousands of corpses out, up, and about with the hook-end of a cane; there were no gloves, but there was a lot of screaming – Ah! The gas! – so, Who verified his story? How many other Sonderkommandos reported the use of canes?
How far along are you on the individual claims of six million victims? If you use Jewish math/standards of physics/chemistry/evidence, it should only take a couple of years to get through the 6 million cases, unless of course, you feel too much shame to continue on.
Gas chambers at Dachau? No children at Auschwitz? Human soap/lampshades? Human bologna? Did everyone get a tattoo at Auschwitz? 8-10 bodies per muffle? Or 3-4? Gloves or canes? 4 million killed or 1.1 million killed? 6 million – 2.9 million = 6 million? Wiesel’s book Night is autobiographical or is it a literary memoir? And, where are the other 800 pages? If an apple hurls itself over a concentration camp fence, and it happened in someone’s mind, did it still catapult itself over the fence?
If the Gypsies were chased around the lunch table by dogs, were the dogs German Shepherds or Belgian Malinois?
I know the reason why – the official story is false. Otherwise, legislation would be unnecessary. Is there any other historical event that is protected by legislation against investigations/inquiries?
Why was Galileo imprisoned? Because he was telling lies?
Free speech laws vary? What are the free speech statutes in Germany/France/Austria/Canada?
Do you ever wonder why people like Elie Wiesel, Frankl, Irene Weiss, et al, can go around saying whatever they want, with virtually no public opposition, whilst Irving, Zundel, Faurisson, et al, are physically attacked, professionally ruined, victims of property destruction/arson, and yet we are told that the old Nazis, and the neo-Nazis are/were the violent/hateful people ruining the world? Who is attacking the “deniers” and why?
You posted links to my published works/statements on the Holocaust?
Nearly every camp eyewitness makes this claim; certainly every Sonderkommando says this. The issue is not if people died – the issue is how they died, and how many died. And, of course, why they died.
Since you’re so familiar with the testimony of Morris Venezia, why don’t you post a few of his verified statements/claims, and we can discuss further?
No, as usual you’re confused.
First of all, the piece obviously didn’t appear on the NYT but instead in Counter-Currents. For many years, CC had been a Neo-Nazi publication, annually celebrating Hitler’s birthday and specializing in republishing books of the Third Reich, but over time it gradually shifted towards a hardcore White Nationalist orientation. I’m not exactly sure where it stood when Quinn published his piece in 2018.
I think Quinn’s a fairly young guy and his main complaint against my lengthy Holocaust article was that he felt I was too mealy-mouthed and never explicitly declared that the Holocaust was a hoax. However, that’s quite unreasonable. At that point, I’d only spent a few weeks investigating the Holocaust, and hardly felt comfortable issuing a definitive verdict, so I provided this verdict:
I’ve repeatedly emphasized that my approach is always to be ultra-cautious in discussing ultra-controversial topics, and this is a perfect example of what I mean. This is exactly why I can say with confidence that I still stand behind at least 99% of everything I’ve published over the last couple of decades.
Cole then got in touch with me and said he wanted to produce a rebuttal to my case, which seemed fine. So I sent him a very polite 1,500 word email summarizing my main points about why I was very skeptical of the Holocaust and asking how he would respond to those arguments (I just now dug up my email and my points had all been very sensible ones). Cole’s lunatic response has disappeared from the Internet, but here’s how Quinn summarized it as the time:
I vaguely remember reading it at the time and it hardly improved my opinion of Cole.
I think part of Cole’s problem was that many of my own arguments were entirely novel ones, that he was unable to effectively address. Hence his tidal wave of crude insults.
So the Unz-Cole Holocaust debate you were seeking had already occurred more than five years ago.
Thank you for the quotes from David Cole who seems to have been a lively minded excitable young man who took a long time to grow up.
You do not suggest any grounds for doubting his good faith.
As for the rest why should I find it any more surprising that liars have lined up for the Holocaust story promoters than that mid 20th century Europeans were capable of genocidal hatred and violence? There’s a lot of crazy wickedness still about as I’m sure you would agree.
I think the problem is that Quinn was a young guy and Cole was just dishonest, so Quinn simply assumed that Cole’s claims were correct. But since his website attracted individuals deeply focused on the Third Reich, some of them corrected Cole’s falsehoods in the comments. For example:
My view on videos hasn’t much changed, and I regard them as usually secondary to analytical text.
For example, I only finally watched those three Holocaust videos that I remembered a year or two after I’d published my main Holocaust Denial articles, and none of the latter would have been any different if I’d watched them earlier. However, since you’ve always emphasized that you prefer videos to text, I just thought I would point them in your direction.
You’ve got your epithets mixed up, Fran.
Goyim who notice and call out Jewish Supremacy are “Jew haters” and Jews who notice and call out Jewish Supremacy are “self hating Jews.”
Imprecise and misleading at best when you attribute to me a preference [always, indeed] for video over text. I have explained that my once excellent eyesight has been affected enough by AMD in one eye and a lasered druse in the other [I may have only mentioned the AMD] to slow my reading down greatly and tire my eyes.
My intellectual taste is not for the visual an even audio podcasts are no substitute for ones eyes being able to wander back and forth over a page to zero in on precise words with a view to assessing whether they reflect precise thinking and to apply one’s own clear thinking.
Thanks. As you allude, the second statement of his comes off as not particularly convincing and somewhat half hearted. It’s even a bit remindful in certain ways of one of those pre-written form ‘confessions’ downed US pilots during the Vietnam War were forced to read over Radio Hanoi, lest they be tortured, or worse. [Compare it with the 1984 ‘thought crime’ confession after 1:57 below ‘More’.]
Poor David Cole. He had simply wanted to be free.
‘I was stubborn and egocentric. When ownlife thoughts occurred to me, I reveled in them. I went into the proletarian zones. I had sex with prostitutes. I deliberately contracted syphilis. It was at this time that I made contact with the resistance.’
Just as a quick summary of the basic points: traditionally, prior to the enlightenment, Jews had been essentially the middle-class. Since capitalist industry developed in the last few centuries, we have learned to take for granted the idea of a middle-class. Most analyses of capitalism, even from different political viewpoints, will agree that the healthiest capitalism is one with a broad middle-class. Pre-capitalist economies did not have this. One had wealthy aristocracies, impoverished peasants, and Jewish middlemen. It used to be common that whenever dissatisfaction grew among the peasants, the steam would be let off by blaming Jews. In some cases, one might be able to find some genuine examples of ostentatious corruption by Jewish middlemen. But no impartial review of the facts would ever be able to overlook similar corruption among the high aristocrats. But the Jews were blamed. This was repeated over and over.
With the development of capitalism in the last few centuries, there have been some interesting shifts. An environment with a strong rising middle-class has often allowed Jews to merge in with the general background more easily. This was true in Germany at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, and of the USA throughout the whole 20th century. At the same time, an effect of this is that Jews don’t always seem as essential as they once were. In the 13th to 17th centuries, it often seemed as if certain middleman roles could really only be done by a Jew. The last few centuries have shown that such roles can potentially be filled by non-Jews, even if Jews still retain special skill sets.
One thing which has done a lot to preserve the old-fashioned role of Jews is Christianity. Armenians have sometimes also played a middleman role, similar to Jews. But I’m not aware of any major religion which gives Armenians the outsized role that is conferred on Jews by Christianity. Whether such Christianity is “anti-Semitic” or not is not really so important as just the fact that it perpetuates a special Jewish role at a time when economic changes of the last 3 centuries could theoretically pave the way for the abandonment of specialness.
Those are the most general points about the Jewish Question. If one was going to go specific political movements such as the Russian Black Hundreds or the German National Socialists, then, obviously, there are very specific details which have to be dealt with in each individual case.
> To prove his supposition wrong?
I’ve already pointed out that it wrong. His claim here is that one should expect Western academics to descend very rapidly after World War II on diagnosing the exact nature of what went on within German camps. I pointed out that such an assumption is unwarranted.
Relevant to this are:
1) The investigation of Armenians and Turks during the First World War.
2) The investigation of German atrocities in Belgium during the same.
Neither one of these historical events rapidly inspired troves of academic research. The most prominent book relating to the first of these events which I can find written in the early years is the memoir of Henry Morgenthau I. If there were any outstanding academic books written about the event, they don’t seem to have retained enough prominence to be commonly listed in bibliographies.
The second event on this list was widely played down during the decades after 1918. Usually, it was would-be peace activists who deemphasized any reportage of German massacres of Belgian civilians, although about 6500 were killed this way. But most of the major studies on these German atrocities in World War I were written after 1945. There is simply no reason to believe that Reitlinger’s book of 1953 and Hilberg’s of 1961 should necessarily have been accompanied by other publications.
>> Briain aligned itself with the USSR after June 22, 1941, at a time when it was widely presumed that the USSR was about to fall.
> Do you really believe this?
The belief in Allied circles during late June 1941 that the USSR was going to swiftly collapse is shown in all of the documents from that time. Everything else which you rambled there was just a dodge.
> Do you really believe the Germans were expected to squash all of Soviet Russia/Ukraine in a few months?
Adolf Hitler certainly believed it.
—–
Hitler’s strategic timetable took shape. He would execute “Marita” early in March. Of course, if the Greeks saw the light and showed their British “guests” the door, he would call off “Marita” altogether — he had no interest whatever in occupying Greece. Then he would attack Russia during May. “In three weeks we will be in Leningrad!” Schmundt heard him say. … “The Russian himself is inferior. His army has no leaders,” he assured his generals. “Once the Russian army has been beaten, the disaster will take its inevitable course.”
—–
— David Irving, Hitler’s War, p. 188, 1977.
I don’t know David Cole, but based on his 1998 recantation, he does not cite a preponderance of evidence as the reason for his reversal, does he?
In point of fact, the preponderance of evidence for the orchestrated genocide of Jews by homicidal gas chambers (and steam rooms/gas vans/electric floors) is entirely hearsay, rumor, innuendo, prohibitions of possible exculpations due to religious prohibitions, and basically – well, where did they all go?
More on Cole:
Wikipedia
In January 1998, Irv Rubin, chairman of the Jewish Defense League, offered a monetary reward for information regarding Cole’s whereabouts. The Anti-Defamation League stated that the JDL’s reward offer implied that “it was prepared to take immediate, possibly violent, action” in order to “get rid” of Cole.[29] In response to the threat, Cole entered into a deal with Rubin whereby he renounced his views and the JDL removed the “reward offer.”… On the JDL website, Rubin bragged that Cole’s recantation is “evidence of the power of the Jewish Defense League.[30] Cole would later admit in his autobiography that the “recantation” was false.[11]
Institute For Historical Review:
Dr. Piper, Auschwitz State Museum Senior Curator, explains that the room displayed to tourists as an extermination “gas chamber” in its “original state” is actually a postwar reconstruction.
[…] At Auschwitz he got more than he bargained for. Wearing a traditional Jewish yarmulke, which seemed to ensure friendly cooperation by authorities, Cole hired an official Museum guide named Alicia to personally show him around the camp site….
Alicia then took Cole to the high point of the tour, the supposed extermination “gas chamber” in the Auschwitz I main camp. Inside the “gas chamber” itself, Cole’s questions became more specific: Were there ever interior walls in this room? Were those pipes and drains ever operational and connected to plumbing facilities? Do the obvious scars on the walls and floor mean that the chamber was once sub-divided into smaller rooms?
[…] As a perplexed Alicia looked on, the supervisor casually discredited a long-standing “exterminationist” claim about the Auschwitz I “gas chamber.” Flatly disagreeing with what Alicia had told Cole ( and doubtless many other visitors), the supervisor explained that the vents in the roof, through which deadly Zyklon B was supposedly introduced, were put in after the war.
Cole’s most important question to Piper is probably this: Is the “gas chamber” in the Auschwitz I main camp in its original state, or is it a reconstruction? Piper’s response:
[…]”So after the liberation of the camp, the former gas chamber presented a view of [an] air [raid] shelter. In order to gain an earlier view… [or] earlier sight… of this object, the inside walls built in 1944 were removed and openings in the ceiling were made anew.
“So now this gas chamber chamber is very similar to this one which existed in 1941-1942, but not all details were made there, so there is no gas-tight door, for instance, and the additional entrance from east side rested [remained] as it made in 1944. Such changes were made after the war to gain [the] earlier view of this object.”
Piper’s startling acknowledgment to Cole has special legal significance for David Irving. In May 1992 a Munich court fined the British historian $6,000 for having told a German audience that the room in Aushwitz that has been portrayed to tourists as an extermination gas chamber is a phony reconstruction (“Attrappen”)…. (More than that, the German judge refused to permit Irving to present any evidence whatsoever in its own defense. Irving’s conviction was upheld by another German court in January 1993.)
Although Piper maintains that the “gas chamber” was restored to its “original” state as killing facility, this postwar reconstruction is in fact worthless as proof of anything because there is not a single wartime document or photograph to confirm just what the alleged homicidal “gas chamber” looked like.
The end.
Yes, I agree. So, everyone lies/exaggerates? Would you agree that some lies have greater consequences than others? Do some lies result in millions of advantages for the perpetrators?
When Wilhelm Marr wrote in 1879, that Jews dominated the press, and as a journalist, he could no longer find work or publishing due to his criticism of their dominance, was he lying? When Adolf Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews were dominating the press, was he also lying? Who controls the media/press in America today? Look into it yourself, Mr. Oz, and find the true answer, free from the opinions /accusations of others.
In 2023, Mayorakas and Blinken are off to Mexico to figure out how to give amnesty to the millions invading at the southern border, many of whom are not from Mexico – Mayorakas, Blinken – Jews both. “Jews use guile to wage war with the West.” – 1879, Marr
Wilhelm Marr, 1879 – “Within less than four generations, there will not be a single office in the land, including the highest, which will not be usurped by the Jews.”
You have done a terrific job avoiding emotions, clearly stating historical information and taking arrows from Ron who is clearly annoyed by your better erudite self than his. You know more! You know the truth how to separate the wheat from the chafe.
Message to TT. You really need to take some sort of writing class. Your posts are repetitive and so poorly written it hurts your eyes to scroll. Just curious are you writing in English? Because your writing is in a language unfamiliar to me. Maybe you are the one that needs a ghost writer. lol.
You are like a baby, more like an infant crying for his Jew Supremacy pacifier. It just gets old and boring.
Just imagine if your scrapheap artifacts ever did make you posthumously famous to the extent that someone bothered to write your biography. If they were diligent they would stumble on the utter garbage you spout here, see the scorn and nastiness you fire off at everyone (except sick psychos like meanjewjew), …
You are certainly leaving a legacy, Franniepoo.
“The Germans would have no reason to lie to themselves in their top-secret communications.”
They had every reason to lie. Remember, General Eisenhowe exposed the German propaganda machine. The Holocaust happened.
This is why you get tied up in knots by trying to defend the indefensible.
Again, the Jews were taken by force against their will, including innocent children, to labor and concentration camps, in a planned, concerted effort.
“This is why so many countries make it a felony to dispute the official Holocaust narrative.”
Let’s be more precise here.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/698043/EPRS_BRI(2021)698043_EN.pdf
I watch videos to see info about current events, but almost always at double speed. It’s excruciatingly slow otherwise.
> On the Eastern front, the Einsatzgruppen and other German military units did shoot a large number of Jews. However, this was part of their anti-partisan fighting.
No objective assessment of the partisan situation in eastern Europe during World War II could ever justify the level of obsession with Jews that was shown by Third Reich authorities. It should not be a big surprise to know that, after more than a long stint going back to the 1920s in which Hitler had made Jews his personal bugaboo, you would have a fair share of Jews who were interested in defying the Third Reich. But their role in partisan activities was always limited by the fact that non-Jewish partisans frequently preferred to operate separately.
—–
Dvoretski … dreamed of forming Jewish partisan regiments… The commanders of the various partisan groups treated Dvoretski’s proposals with a mixture of fear and envy; in the end, the partisans set an ambush and murdered Dvoretski and one of his comrades.
—–
— Israel Gutman, Editor-in-Chief, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Volume 1, pp. 411-2.
—–
To get admitted into the ranks of a Soviet fighting detachment was no easy job. There were some Russian units that did not admit Jews as a matter of policy. They justified this by saying that Jews neither knew how nor wanted to fight… Commanders and political leaders explained these astonishing acts of national discrimination by pointing to overriding political considerations: a Jew had no way out, he could not turn back; but a White Russian, a Pole, or a Ukrainian still had a number of courses open to him–he might join the police or the Vlasov army, or he might take a well-paid job with the Germans that would permit him to rob the population and to benefit from property left behind by the Jews; it was therefore essential to do the utmost in order to draw him into the ranks of the fighters against the German occupation.
—–
— Solomon Schwarz, The Jews in the Soviet Union, p. 323.
Despite occasionally playing some flashy roles in partisan resistance, Jews simply were not the core of it. No rational assessment of the partisan forces would ever have led the Germans into placing an inordinate stress on Jews as a locus of partisan resistance. It’s similar to the absurd way that the White forces in the Russian Civil War used mass-pogroms against Jews at a time when Russian and Ukrainian peasants were fiercely combatting White authority. It simply ignores what was really going on.
Bravo, Fran! You’ve described the primitive practice of male genital mutilation to a tee…
I hope if anything you take away the truth from
My discussion with Ron, that a bunch of criminal gangsters did loot, steal and profit from Japanese American lands. If that registers. That for me is a big deal.
It was a US government affair.
You write: “No rational assessment of the partisan forces would ever have led the Germans into placing an inordinate stress on Jews as a locus of partisan resistance.”
My response: Jews were certainly not the only participants in the Soviet anti-partisan activities.
However, in the eyes of the SS and the civilian population of the Soviet Union, many Soviet Jews were regarded as being responsible for or accomplices to the Communist acts of violence. For example, the massacres of Jews committed by Ukrainians and SS men in July 1941 in Lemberg and other Galician towns were primarily retaliations for the mass murders of Ukrainians committed by the Soviets between June 22 and July 2, 1941. The reports of the Einsatzgruppen furnish evidence of this:
“In Tarnopol 5,000 Ukrainians kidnapped, 2,000 murdered. As counter measures arrest operation initiated against Jewish intellectuals, who shared responsibility for the murder and besides were informers for the NKVD. Number estimated at about 1,000. On July 5, approximately 70 Jews rounded up by Ukrainians and shot. Another 20 Jews killed on the road by military and Ukrainians, as response to the murder of three soldiers who were found chained in jail, with tongues cut out and eyes gouged out.” (Source: Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 262).
Other Jews were shot in retaliatory measures after the discovery of Soviet torture chambers. For example, after the discovery of a torture chamber in the Tarnopol courthouse, the Germans reacted as follows: “The troops marching through who had the opportunity to see these atrocities, above all the bodies of the murdered German soldiers, killed all of the approximately 600 Jews and set their houses on fire.” (Source: Ibid.).
There is also considerable evidence than many of the Einsatzgruppen reports are not valid concerning the killing of Jews.
For example, the unreliability of the Einsatzgruppen reports was acknowledged in the British trial of German Field Marshal Erich von Manstein in 1949. Von Manstein’s British lawyer demonstrated that whole areas claimed by the reports to be “cleared of Jews” contained many flourishing Jewish communities that were untouched throughout the entire war. The trial court accepted the argument that the Einsatzgruppen reports were unreliable. The court acquitted von Manstein regarding the Einsatzgruppen activities in his command sector. (Source: Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, 4th edition, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25. See also Paget, Reginald T., Manstein: His Campaigns and His Trial, London: Collins, 1951, pp. 169-171).
The unreliability of the Einsatzgruppen reports is well-illustrated by the Babi Yar massacre, which is probably the best known of the alleged Einsatzgruppen atrocities. The Babi Yar massacre supposedly occurred in a large ravine outside of Kiev in the Ukraine. The allegation is that Einsatzgruppen C rounded up 33,771 Jews in Kiev and shot all of them over the period of September 29-30, 1941. The figure of 33,771 Jews murdered at Babi Yar comes from Einsatzgruppen Event Report 106 of October 7, 1941. (Source: Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Thesis and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 521).
However, as I show in my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/10/2/5569, the alleged Babi Yar massacre is a fraudulent event.
An air photo taken of the ravine of Babi Yar on September 26, 1943 shows a placid and peaceful valley. Neither the vegetation nor the topography has been disturbed by human activity. There are no burning sites, no smoke, no excavations, no fuel depots, and no access roads for the transport of humans or fuel. We can conclude with certainty from this photo that no part of Babi Yar was subjected to topographical changes of any magnitude right up to the Soviet reoccupation of the area. Hence, the mass graves and mass cremations attested to by witnesses at Babi Yar did not take place. (Source: Ball, John Clive, “Air Photo Evidence,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, pp. 275, 284).
Pretzel? He can’t separate himself from his fruit-of-the-looms for all the twisting he does whilst he lays back to think of Stalin! after hammering out some nonsensical blurbs on his keyboard. He knows the dates – I’ll give him that.
Do I? Have you any recommendations for me? I remember your fine prose on another thread:
“Tell us about your sex life Han. Do you use whips and chains? Do you like being peed on? How hot is your cum when you are being beaten? That is what I am interested in when it come to you Han, the temperature of your cum.”
Well, how many ways are there to say – there were no homicidal gas chambers, and you can’t drag thousands of corpses around with a cane, and every Jewish man who had a bar mitzvah at age 13 damn well remembers it, and 6m minus 2.9m is 3.1m….
Try Visine.
Franny, that makes no sense whatsoever. Those are really poor/ineffective insults. Stick with the cum/Gentile penis jabs, which seems to be your forte, and your obsession. I can’t say I blame you, as Scandinavian/German men are quite the eye-candy. If you ever nab one, let me know, and I’ll give you some tips on handling them.
Maybe so; I’ll work on it, Franny, so I can keep writing for myself.
I’ll get back to Pretzel’s mumbo-jumbo later because I’ve got stuff cooking in the oven and on my gas-powered chef’s stove-top, and unlike in the Land of Jewish Sonderkommandos, the laws of physics, mechanics, chemistry (ever forget the baking soda?), and thermodynamics do apply in/on my stove/range.
You are correct in that very few historians delved into the so called holocaust right after the war up until the early 1960s, and even then, most of those were Jews. It was considered a disreputable field, since the stink of atrocity propaganda was quite STRONG. I’m going from memory now, so I could even be confusing the specific historian, but i think it was Hilberg who tells that when he began his research which would culminate into the massive 3 volume set that came out in the early 60s, he was discouraged from pursuing this by a university professor of his, who was himself Jewish.
“Indeed, Allied strategic bombing of Germany as well as Germany’s overall collapse at the end of the war brought about a tremendous worsening of the camps conditions.“
Then it was even more egregious on the Nazi regime to continue to warehouse Jews, who had been taken by force against their will, including innocent children.
Anyways, I noticed upthread that that fool, ‘utu’, mentioned the Pole Jan Karski as such:
What was Karski’s official activity at that time?
During the war he acted as a courier of the Polish government in exile, which resided in London. The actual substance of this “courier” activity has been described by the American-Jewish mainstream historian(German born) Walter Laqueur as follows:
One of the most bizarre black propaganda tales of Jewish extermination was propagated by Jan Karski about the Belzec camp (Karski 1944, pp. 339-351). The method of mass murder was described as the use of “death trains,” the floors of which were allegedly covered with quicklime, which then slowly ate the flesh off the bones of the Jews, killing them. After the war he conceded the story was not true. But most interesting is the context of Karski’s anti-German black propaganda work. A bit long, but I promisse you it will be worth your while. From ‘Jan Karski’s Visit to Belzec: A Reassessment’,by Friedrich Jansson:
The Muslims do it also. Try telling them the shit you tell to the Jews
1933: “Judea Declares War on Germany”. That included all Jews. Note it did not say “Jews in the USA”, or “Jews in Germany” or whatever sub group. No, it said “Judea”, which is inclusive of every Jew anywhere.
“…Then it was even more egregious on the Nazi regime to continue to warehouse Jews, who had been taken by force against their will, including innocent children…”.
Axe murderers are also taken from their homes against their will, so what?
With adult Jews imprisoned, do you expect Germans to look after the Jew’s children? That is why the whole family was sent to a concentration camp so that the family could stay together and look after their own. Pretty humane arrangement if you think about it.
Exactly. That was one of the points I’d made in my big 2018 article:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#the-rediscovery-of-the-holocaust
“1933: “Judea Declares War on Germany”
This was propaganda. A newspaper made this statement, not a head of state. It was in response to the rise of Adolf Hitler.
“Axe murderers are also taken from their homes against their will, so what?”
What a bizarre statement for you to make.
“That is why the whole family was sent to a concentration camp so that the family could stay together and look after their own. Pretty humane arrangement if you think about it.”
The fact that you condone the forcible removal of Jewish children from their homes and into ghettos/camps is morally repugnant.
Esau, listen to me… you should fear Ishmael more than Jacob. We have your best interests at heart, trust me. Would I lie to you (she says as she tightly grips her worn copy of the Talmud)?
Excerpt from NOAHIDE LAW, NOT SHARIA LAW, IS THE THREAT – CHUCK BALDWIN:
For those who prefer to listen to the audio version…
Video Link
I’ve read the Marr’s 1879 pamphlet you quoted from. His geo-political analysis was brilliant. I wonder where he might of got his insight from?
Perhaps it was from his unusual generally Leftist background. And, too, he’d worked for two Jewish owned firms years prior, and three (of his four) marriages had been to either whole, or in part, Jewish women. He’d been a member of various liberal secret societies, even being expelled from Geneva in 1843, accused of furthering the cause of Communism.
Fraun Taubman said: “The Muslims do it also. Try telling them the shit you tell the Jews”
Hunsdon asked: I know very little about circumcision in the Muslim faith. When you said “The Muslims do it also” did you mean circumcision itself, or circumcision at an early age, and the inclusion of a mohel? I did a very, very cursory examination (i.e., wikipedia) which seemed to imply a much later age for the procedure. Any additional clarification you can provide would be welcome.
Where is the hilarious button? That is some spin. Lime on the floor!!!!
Yes, he was rather colorful. How about that prediction on Russia?
I believe he may have been somewhat like David Horowitz, who concluded that his secretary, whom he assigned to do bookkeeping for a school he helped to open for Black Panther cubs, had been murdered by his beneficiaries, and he proclaims this publicly/openly. He looked around one day, and said, maybe I’m pitching for the wrong team?…..
https://montrealcircumcision.ca/circumcision-important-islam/
It is a big Jew hating theme to describe Jewish circumcision rituals as a penis sucking perversion by Jews causing disease. Which it is not. Jesus was circumcised. And Mohammed declared it a correct practice for cleanliness. So Islam practices the custom as well. Circumcision can only be safely performed on an infant on the 8th day of a newborn. When the flap of the skin is the size of a pinky nail. Tiny. I’m
Propaganda? A newspaper said it? Which one?
Do a little research on Samuel Untermyer, you boob, and show us your work. Pretzel will say – no one paid any attention at all to the U.S. leader of the American faction of the World’s Aristocrats.
Are you sure they were concerned over Adolf Hitler’s rise? What had them all stirred up? How many Jews had been sent to the gas chambers in 1933? Maybe they were worried about their German banking practices?
It’s bizarre because you’re a clueless ideologue.
Oh, you think everyone with a backbone and a knack for pattern recognition is morally repugnant. Parents who weep or make excuses for the savages who rape and murder their children are repugnant; the Talmud is repugnant; the Africans brought to Europe by Jewish Family Services are repugnant; the vilification and lies about NS Germany and Hitler are repugnant, and you are a Useful Idiot.
But, Fran, you self-hating Judeophobe, Jews are NOT all the same. Some are nefarious banksters, some revolutionaries, some lechers, some great musicians, some IDF child-butchers, others principled and brave opponents of such horror. Liebovitz’s ‘argument’ is puerile and ludicrous. Judeophobia is real and pernicious, but ‘antisemitism’ is a concoction designed to intimidate, silence and slander critics, including Jews, of Zionazi crimes.
You speak of Judaism as if it is monolithic, as usual. In fact the Talmudists are in no way ‘united’ with Christians. The Talmudists, who are central to Bibi’s genocidal regime DESPISE Christians. They believe that Jesus is in Hell, up to his neck in boiling faeces, and Mary, his mother, was a whore.
They openly state that in their ‘Eretz Yisrael’ Christians will be expelled and Churches destroyed, because they are idolators. We see that In Gaza with the deliberate targeting of Churches and sniper murders of people finding refuge there. Are you are deranged liar, or simply pig ignorant and brainwashed? Meanwhile your Holy Genocide rolls on.
Sources please for your Talmudic Jews anti Christian plots and plans.
It looks like you intended to spout more bullshit in defence of genital mutilation but got cut off. You didn’t even get to the part where you attempted to justify the sexual perversion of sucking babies dicks.
Are you going to admit the propaganda lie that Jewish gangsters stole and looted Japanese American lands? A lie a bold face lie. Let me hear you admit that the US government seized those lands and sold the properties. Not Jewish gangsters. Let me hear you admit to those fucking lies.
No one sucks babies dicks. You are a liar. A sick fucking liar.
Jews are NOT all the same. Some are nefarious banksters, some revolutionaries, some lechers, some great musicians, some IDF child-butchers, others principled and brave opponents of such horror. Liebovitz’s ‘argument’ is puerile and ludicrous
All peoples are bad and good. All have gangsters, nefarious bankers, leeches, and great musicians. All people are the same. What Leibovitz is saying is that the Jews are singled out for what ever evil du jour is.
White supremacists oppressors. Top of the list the Jews oppressing Arabs. No one oppressed Arabs more than other Arabs. Why not let those poor Palestinians being murdered immigrate to other countries. Do you realize the cruelty of that? No one did more to squash Palestinian independence than the Arabs who all wanted the land for themselves. Jordan was part of Palestine. It is the Palestinian state. Why cannot Jordan become Palestine and remove that fake hollow king and his queen who are kings and queens of no where. Completely made up kingdom.
Has that cruelty ever occurred to you. No sir it’s the Jews that are the oppressors. Because oppression and colonizers are du jour. Voila the Jews . Always the Jews.
What would the world do without the Jews? They would have to solve their problems. No peoples of the world are more liars, pernicious or cruel than the Arabs. Liars starting with Hello or Salam. Liars.
LOL, you’re all tied up in knots. An American banker called for an economic boycott in protest of a dictator does not equate to a declaration of war and dora not justify the rounding up every Jew, including innocent boys and girls.
“Oh, you think everyone with a backbone and a knack for pattern recognition is morally repugnant”
Reverting back to strawmen I see.
“the Talmud is repugnant, the Africans brought to Europe by Jewish Family Services are repugnant; the vilification and lies about NS Germany and Hitler are repugnant”
But not the separation and murdering of Jewish children. Got it.
Queen Esther caught gaslighting the goyim 22 comments after the visual evidence of a Jewish mohel sucking baby penis was duly furnished.
TT is amazing no? kill everyone for a good cause, a worthy cause. But don’t look at the bad stuff coming around the corner. Time must stop with the sordid elimination of the Jews.
The end to all bad stories. Life is beautiful. Yeah it was worth it.
Uncannily accurate. And not ‘just’ Russia was he correct about, but Germany, and the whole of Europe.
That could be. And it could be he just made an exceptionally good ‘educated guess’, though I don’t preclude that he may have been exposed to something within the various secret societies he had been a member of that may have indicated some of the things he described were in reality planned. [I think the latter could also be the case with that effectively black listed mid 19th century New Rome book I occasionally quote from, also written by German(s) with a revolutionary background, and also highly accurate in it’s long range geopolitical forecast.]
“Exactly. That was one of the points I’d made in my big 2018 article:”
Which Professor Jackson has succinctly addressed as to how and why following WW2 there was scant attention paid to the Holocaust. It other than surprisingly that some Jewish scholars and historians would dissuade their colleagues from pursuing this line of inquiry.
You don’t understand this expression.
I’m not sure Untermyer is/was classified as a banker; he was a lawyer. However, he was involved in the creation of the Federal Reserve, which was fortuitously created in time for WW1, and which is not/was not Federal, and he was closely associated with the Warburgs, who were Jewish bankers from Germany. Untermyer was Jewish, and his family came to America from Germany.
Why don’t you do a little research into the economic conditions of Germany after World War I, and also well into the 1930s, although it is rather curious when you listen to the Shoah interviews, how the Jewish people somehow managed to thrive incredibly well in the aftermath of World War I. In any event, perhaps then you will understand why an economic boycott was considered an act of war, albiet a war of economics. Whilst you’re at it, look into how economic sanctions compelled capitulation to the Treaty of Versailles by Germany.
How do you get problematic people out if you don’t round them up and send them somewhere else? I wonder why there aren’t thousands of movies, and college courses, about the Soviet Gulags? I wonder why Poland and Russia keep fighting/arguing over who killed the most Jews? Maybe Steven Spielberg will make a movie and enlighten us all.
You don’t understand this expression/term/proposition, and this is a rather cowardly way to pose/rebut an argument. Corvinus, technically, you are a Straw Man.
Well, it depends on the context, doesn’t it? Are the majority of Jews crying over the Palestinian children that must die in order to fulfill their prophecy of the Return? What happened to Never Again!? Their concern is, and has always been, for their role as the Guiding Lights of the World; Never Again! means We Shall Never Again! Be Opposed.
How many tears have been shed by the world/Hollywood/historians over the murder/rape of German civilian women/children/elderly expelled from Poland, Moravia, Bohemia, Prussia, Austria, Dresden, Berlin…..How many Hollywood movies are currently being made about the burnings/rapes/gang-rapes/murders of young Europeans sacrificed for Spectre’s Transformation of Europe, which Must occur, and for which Jews will be resented for their prominent role? She freely admits this; they freely admit what they’re doing. Open your eyes, because you and your unfortunate progeny are in their crosshairs, as well.
I’m trying to help you, Corvinus. Do some research, and get those Belgian Malinois in preparation for the arrival of more Die-versity.
Your English comprehension is certainly questionable.
Nowhere did I advocate the removal of Jewish children, or any children, from their families.
In fact the Germans put the whole family in concentration camps so that the families would stay together.
You know, those concentration camps with hospitals, kinder gardens, orchestras, swimming pools, libraries…
> Lemberg and other Galician towns
Let’s take careful note that these regions are specifically part of the territory that was annexed by the USSR in 1939-40. Sure, historians have long agreed that in those specific territories the Soviet occupation forces employed Jews very prominently, and this later led to some backlash after the Soviet forces had been driven out. But this is obviously just a minor footnote to the German policy of a Final Solution to the Jewish Question, as well as anti-partisan campaigns.
It would have no relevance to the types of resistance forces which formed within those territories which were part of the USSR on September 1, 1939. Neither would it have any bearing on the formation of resistance forces in Poland that were loyal to the Warsaw government of 1939. This would only have some relevance to events within the Baltic states and the chunk of eastern Poland which was later made into west Ukraine.
By the way, isn’t it a claim made by Walter Sanning that the regions occupied by the USSR in 1939-40 were emptied of Jews? That appears not to have been the case. Apparently, the Jews in this territory were not all rounded up and sent to the eastern Soviet Union. Some were, like Menachem Begin. But obviously a lot remained where they were.
> Do a little research on Samuel Untermyer, you boob, and show us your work. Pretzel will say – no one paid any attention at all to the U.S. leader of the American faction of the World’s Aristocrats.
You’re a strange mixture of dumb and dishonest. It’s a fact that many prominent Jewish groups disassociated themselves from Untermeyer’s call for a boycott. Whether or not really means that “no one paid any attention at all” is a different matter. But it’s clearly false to describe Samuel Untermeyer as “the U.S. leader of the American faction of the World’s Aristocrats.” At best, he may be regarded as the leader of one particular faction among a much wider aristocratic elite within the borders of the US. On a world scale, he would have even more competition.
A point brought up another commenter deserves some note: the title “Judea Declares War on Germany” is not actually a statement by Samuel Untermeyer per se. It is a headline that was assigned by the editors of the Daily Express. The latter was a sensationalistic rag run by Lord Beaverbrook. Beaverbrook was generally an advocate of the appeasement policy who opposed Chamberlain’s turn after Hitler’s occupation of Czechia. Whatever one’s opinion of these issues may be, it makes no sense to attach great importance to the particular headline which Beaverbrook chose for an article. What is the core truth is that Untermeyer tried to advocate for a boycott, whereas groups like the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the American Jewish Committee opposed this policy.
“the Talmud is repugnant, the Africans brought to Europe by Jewish Family Services are repugnant; the vilification and lies about NS Germany and Hitler are repugnant”
So they were good? The NS and Hitler were honorable, decent, and good and as you say prescient about the evils Jews and Judaism especially the Talmud? There was nothing Nobel about this group even if they checked one of your big boxes. Getting rid of the Jews. Eliminating Jewry from the face of the earth.
Goebbels, Himmler, and that fat slop Goring were not noble men out to do good. They were after power, just beating vulture like power. The same as every other marching power vultures of history starting with Genghis Kahn.
These men stole peoples property, their possessions, they looted other countries museums, stole their nations historical treasures and art work. They were into power with the lowly Jews being toothpicks on their road to conquering the world they would have cut a swath and mowed down or rearranged entire countries at will until someone brought them down like all empires who try to conquer. The Jews would have been a footnote.
There is nothin enlighten or noble about raw power and conquering. So you admire the NS because they would not have let Jews bring Africans to Europe with Jewish family services? Or your hatred for the Talmud? What a trade off. Give the NS a world record n a platter for taking care of the Jews. But they never did murder them, just meant to but forgot. Who knows what they wanted to do to the Jews. All good with you. Read much history of empires with world domination on their minds like the Romans? Jews or no Jews, it never ends well.
Hello! Earth to Taubman. If that was Hitler’s ultimate goal, why did he enter into the Haavara Agreement with the leading Zionists that allowed Jews to flee Germany to Palestine?
Excerpts from Wiki’s Haavara Agreement:
This post is meant for TT post 1039. Sorry Corvinus
No, you’re confused. Although the 2021 Jackson article was an excellent historiographical account of the topic, you’d cited it regarding Beaty’s 1951 book and he didn’t even seem aware that Beaty had explicitly ridiculed the Holocaust as debunked wartime propaganda. Beaty’s name never even appears in Lipstadt’s book Denying the Holocaust, and it’s possible I may have been the first person to ever notice his brief discussion, which might be about the earliest “Holocaust Denial” on record in English.
But Beaty’s book was an enormous conservative bestseller, strongly endorsed by many of our top generals, while none of his legion of ferocious Jewish and academic critics ever challenged his Holocaust Denial, suggesting that almost no one believed in the Holocaust at that point. None of Jackson’s arguments would explain the total silence of the ADL and every other critic on that matter.
You’re merely attempting to spin the historical reality.
I just provided several paragraphs explaining how a tight network of Jews associated with Al Capone’s Chicago Syndicate played a central role in looting the property of the Japanese Americans and made themselves very rich in the process.
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-6337543
Indeed, this was an important step in the financial rise of the Crowns and the Pritzkers, two of the wealthiest Jewish families in modern day America.
“No, you’re confused. Although the 2021 Jackson article was an excellent historiographical account of the topic, you’d cited it regarding Beaty’s 1951 book”
I cited Jackson as a reference to those in general, including Beaty, who had “ridiculed the Holocaust as debunked wartime propaganda”.
“Beaty’s name never even appears in Lipstadt’s book Denying the Holocaust”
I never made that claim.
“and it’s possible I may have been the first person to ever notice his brief discussion”
And it’s possible you did not.
“suggesting that almost no one believed in the Holocaust at that point.”
And here is the reason why, as Professor Jackson correctly points out—“My history begins by sketching part of what Joseph Fronczak called a “transnational intellectual traffic” of ideas between the rightwing political activists of the United States and Europe. After the war, European fascists, like American isolationists, needed to rehabilitate their cause by minimizing fascists’ responsibility for the war’s outbreak as well as minimizing Nazi atrocities. Conservative publishers were anxious to keep the isolationist cause alive after the war.—
Indeed, Jackson’s arguments would explain the total silence of the ADL and every other critic on that matter during the 1950s and early 1960s.
Take your pick :
https://www.unz.com/author/michael-hoffman/
Judaism Discovered
https://www.revisionisthistory.org/page8/page8.html
Strange, maybe; very few women bother to argue/defend Hitler/Germany – I know how to clear a banquet table…Ha!
Do you really think I’m dumb? Pretzel, if you want to trigger someone, you must use insults/jabs with a basis in reality, which is why Pretzel, and Lie back and think of Stalin! are so very apropos concerning your Bolsheviky-self, and you can’t really offer a defense.
Yes, Pretzel, many Jews disassociated themselves with Untermyer, and Untermyer previously disassociated himself or denied any involvement with political Zionism, but somehow cultural Zionism is/was perfectly fine/acceptable, because Zionism, in and of itself, is in no way a vehicle that permits/encourages the delineation of, or insulates, Jews, as a separate entity with enormous power/influence, from other members of society, particularly the others in the societies which enable the amassment of enormous fortune and influence due to a tradition of fair-play, religious freedom, or a meritocracy, which Jews notoriously seek and/or advocate/meddle for amongst other nations, but fiercely restrict within their own insular nation/group, and regarding Untermyer, when push comes to shove, Jews will be Jews, and neutral, pro-Gentile, Untermyer is on record offering support/money to the cause and/or remembrance of the liberation of the Bolsheviks/Jews in Russia, so clearly he was an insider/supporter. For Christ’s sake, Pretzel, he was perhaps the most famous/recognized Jew in America….sure, he had no influence.
Pretzel, on a world scale, everyone has more competition. And, since Jewish lairs/covens/banks are worldwide, well……
Samuel Untermyer said, “For the Jews are the aristocrats of the world.” He did not say some of us, did he?
What else did that weasel say in 1933?
[…] “as was the idealistic dream of our martyred President of making the world safe for democracy and of protecting minorities, what then are to be the lines of our defensive campaign against these atrocities…
Our campaign is twofold — defensive and constructive. On the defensive side will be the economic boycott against all German goods, shipping and services. On the constructive side will be an appeal to the League of Nations to construe and enforce the labor union provisions of the Versailles Treaty and the written promises made by Germany, while the treaty was under negotiation, to protect its minorities, which have been flagrantly violated by its disfranchisement and persecution of the German Jews.”
Which minorities, Pretzel? What of the German minorities in Poland, Czechoslovakia, or the Baltic states? Who protected those minorities? What exactly happened when an Austrian Aristocrat began to advocate for German minorities? So, worldwide, which minorities mattered to Untermyer, et al? And, since when was America all about making the world safe for minorities? If you want to thread this needle, European-blooded people are minorities in this world.
What atrocities had occurred by August 7, 1933? I would say the potential dismantling of central banking in Germany, or anywhere, is/was indeed viewed as an atrocity by a certain minority.
Maybe Untermyer was not the originator of the economic boycott, and frankly, I have no idea who said it first, if there was such a single individual, but the newspaper editors didn’t make it up from whole cloth, did they?
The core truth? Most Jews deny what other Jews are doing; some Jews, like Spectre, Ignatiev, Sontag, and various rabbis, say out loud what they’re doing – destroying Amalek/Edom/Whiteness/Europa…whatever/whomever. If you want to argue that there are a few innocent Jews in the world, well fine, maybe so, but every secular Jew I know/knew supported the local synagogues and their relations, who were not secular. How in the world do those insular, Jewish, shtetl communities, who devote their entire lives to Jewish studies, support themselves? My guess is it’s the secular Jews who actually work. When will Dennis Prager, who says he loves White/American people, unless they deny the Holocaust, rat-out the Eastern European Jews, because I know damn well he hears the Destroy Amalek spiel? I’ll tell you when – Never, and that’s the core truth. The Jews are a nation unto themselves wherever they are in the world.
The International Jewish Boycott Conference was assembled in Holland in the summer of 1933 under the Presidency of Mr. Samuel Untermeyer, of the U.S.A., who was elected President of the World Jewish Economic Federation formed to combat the opposition to Jews in Germany. On his return to the U.S.A., Mr. Untermeyer gave an address over Station W.A.B.C, the text of which, as printed in the New York Times of August 7th, 1933, I have before me.
Mr Untermeyer referred in the opening phrases to: “The holy war in the cause of humanity in which we are embarked”; and proceeded to develop the subject at great length, describing the Jews as the aristocrats of the world. “Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here.” Those Jews who did not join in he denounced, declaring: “They are traitors to their race.”
https://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=read&author=ramsay&book=nameless&story=jewry
Not his “ultimate goal”. More like an occasional wet dream.
Arguing about atrocity propaganda is like the proverbial Tar-Baby. There’s no end to it.
Most unfortunately, for the Jewish people and others, the bigger picture is that this is how over the centuries they (ie powerful elements of the elites of the Jewish people and hangers on) have learned to maintain control of their own, via the fear and terrorization generated by the atrocity accusations, real or perceived. [This is the sick system of control that David Cole was attempting to free himself from.]
A powerful secondary purpose of the atrocity accusations is the demonization and suppression of declared enemies.
This long term unhealthy and perverse dynamic has worked towards creating the present day dysfunctional, utterly poisonous relationship, that exist between not ‘just’ Germans and Jews, but Euro peoples in general and the Jewish people. The right of Euro peoples today to simply physically exist is being denied. [See the outstanding excerpted Psychology Today article below on the subject of the ‘wound collector’ for insight into this terrible relationship dynamic.]
There are those amongst the Jewish people who realize this poisonous relationship is not ultimately good for them either, and who understand that it is keeping the Jewish people down as well.
Reach out to them in mutual respect, and work with them towards the amicable if at all possible separation between the Euro and Jewish peoples, so that all peoples concerned can work toward repairing the long term harm that has been done.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors
You’re merely attempting to spin the historical reality
No I was not trying to spin a historical reality it was Pranja that tried to spin the reality you spun in your 2018 Jewish crime article.
What is more important this is a stupid conversation. Bazelon was appointed the head of a bureau for selling seized government assets and later appointed by FDR to be a state Supreme Court judge, I doubt the Bazelon had “deep organized crime ties” There is no proof of that. If there was proof, he would have never gotten those presidential appointments.
As a young lawyer in Chicago he might have represented an organized criminal figure from the Capone family, because I am sure as a young lawyer in Chicago in 1950 that was the only legal job available. because Bazelon defended mobsters, does not mean that Bazelon was a member of a crime syndicate. Sounds ridiculous.
How do you think the Mellons, Morgan’s and Rockefeller’s got their fortunes? Playing the lottery?
And yet, Genghis Kahn is a hero to modern Mongolian people. Apparently, Kahn was an inspiration to Tamerlane, the human-skull-pyramid Guru of Turco-Mongolia, who sacked Baghdad and just about everyone else from Southern Russia to India (who knew?); do you know who else was lurking around in Baghdad and India? The Sassoons, Franny…I bet if we dig back a few centuries, we’ll find some Sassoon patriarch supplying Tamerlane with coins, swords, sheep, maps of Central Asia, etc….I’m speculating, of course, but thank goodness the Sassoon bunch made it to jolly ole’ England. In any event, one rarely observes Khan/Tamerlane on those mainstream Most Evil Ever lists, whilst I’ve never seen one without Herr Hitler.
I’m sorry, Franny, that was my long-winded way of saying it seems the issue is not – that one kills millions of people; even in excess of 20-30 million. The issue is – which people are being eliminated/targeted, even if their elimination is merely an accusation, and if the accusation involves the elimination of 6 million, then Bingo! That’s the only event that really matters.
Why is it/was it noble for Jews to fight for themselves/Israel, but it was wrong for Hitler to fight for Germans/Germany/Europe? You know Hitler did not arrive to office in 1933 and immediately start slaughtering Jews. Getting rid of the Jews entailed removal from media, government, academia, and banking/speculative markets. Rather than just closing shop and moving on, as in the past on multiple occasions for the very same reasons enumerated by Hitler and every other evil Banisher, they chose to declare Holy war. Why? In simple terms, I think because at that particular point in time, they were more powerful than ever in history, especially with the U.S. on their side/in their pocket, and because global communications technology would enable the world to see the fruits of a society without disproportionate Jewish influence/interference, so they had much more at stake once fully/obviously exposed.
When did I say Jews should be eliminated from the face of the earth?
Yes. Very much so. I dare say Channon Christian’s father agrees; Pava LaPere’s parents, like Corvinus, make excuses for disproportionate/absolute savagery, which also occurs in places without subjugation by White Devils.
What does Sweden/Germany/Ireland, Europe, in general, owe to the Africans? England abolished the African slave trade, which was begun by Asians/Turks/Arabs/North Africans, who confiscated multitudes more human flesh than America did, and who clearly disallowed reproduction/survival of African DNA in their nations. And Fran, this is the crux of the “Jewish” matter – the Jews were heavily involved in the African slave trade, into North America and South America, yet they are somehow absolved from responsibility/blame, and they are the originators of the NAACP, and various Black integration/liberation/immigration factions operating against White society. So, the constant hypocrisy, deceptions, and the double-dealing is central to Gentile complaints about what Jews do in Gentile societies.
Fran, this is commonplace in all wars/conflicts – to the victors go the spoils. And, I don’t care what you say, Hitler did not set out to conquer the world, and/or loot Europe.
Do you think the Rosetta Stone should be returned to Egypt? Technically, the Greeks were responsible for the creation of the tablet, and the Egyptians were responsible for its destruction and use as scrap stone for construction. My point is that conflict leads to destruction, but some cultures, particularly those of Europe, in general, deem ancient objects/relics/art, etc., as worthy of protection, regardless of origin, and they are better stewards, so the Germans were correct to take those items, rather than leave them for possible destruction.
I think Goring could have ruled all of Europe if he wanted, and if he had been in charge, instead of Hitler, the world would be much different today. So, Rothschilds, et al or Goring, et al? I choose the latter.
Fran, this is true. And, none of us are getting out of here alive.
Happy New Year, Franny.
Mr Untermeyer referred in the opening phrases to:
“The holy war in the cause of humanity in which we are embarked”; and proceeded to develop the subject at great length, describing the Jews as the aristocrats of the world. “Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here.” Those Jews who did not join in he denounced, declaring: “They are traitors to their race.”
https://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=read&author=ramsay&book=nameless&story=jewry
One man’s opinion that there is a war between Jews and Gentiles does not equate to an entire ethnic group declaring war on Germans. It was an excuse used by the Nazis to round up Jews, including innocent children.
“In any event, perhaps then you will understand why an economic boycott was considered an act of war, albiet a war of economics”
I’m familiar with what occurred. It was used as a convenient excuse to terrorize all Jews, especially innocent children. Again, one man’s /one group’s declaration to boycott a government led by a dictator is not a declaration of war.
“How do you get problematic people out if you don’t round them up and send them somewhere else?”
Assuming they are problematic to begin with. Regardless, you advocate the forcible removal of children from their homes and society. It’s sickening.
I’m just trying to help you understand the error of your ways.
“Nowhere did I advocate the removal of Jewish children, or any children, from their families.”
But they were. Once they permanently left their home and neighborhood.
“In fact the Germans put the whole family in concentration camps so that the families would stay together.”
That is traumatizing for children. Don’t you see that?
“You know, those concentration camps with hospitals, kinder gardens, orchestras, swimming pools, libraries…”
At the expense of Jewish freedom. And for what? What crimes did they all commit? Why do you support the punishment of children ripped from their home and neighborhood?
It’s perfectly charitable to describe this as dumb:
“Samuel Untermyer, … the U.S. leader of the American faction of the World’s Aristocrats.”
If he was actually “the U.S. leader of the American faction of the World’s Aristocrats” then he would not have been frustrated in his efforts to enforce a boycott. But instead, he ran into conflict with the American Jewish Committee, which was not in support of the calls for a boycott.
While the issue of Untermeyer’s unsuccessful attempt to enforce a general boycott on Germany is brought up, it’s worth going back to Stephen Wise’s account of his correspondence with contacts in Germany.
—–
One letter from Berlin dated April 2 reached me … It added:
“Over here they have made the Jews and everyone else think that this boycott was only a retaliatory measure because of the action of the Jews in England and America and that nothing would have occurred otherwise. Lies–all lies. It was prepared months ago. I know! …
“They claim that all this was done in retaliation of what was done to Germany in foreign countries. Could any country in 48 hours have a complete list of every Jewish shop in Germany? This, mind you, included seamstresses, little shoemakers, tiny shops in basements that sell vegetables, and all this in the smallest hamlets and towns. You have no idea how this was organized to the nth degree. They had speakers in every factory throughout the country telling workmen and the masses that through a boycott instituted by the Jews against Germany they, the workmen, would be the ones to suffer and so they must help in rooting out these people and hitting them in their most vulnerable spot.
“Thank God that the other countries know and, despite what this country is preaching that the mass meetings of the Jews in England and America has reacted injuriously to the Jews in Germany, I tell you this is not so. No matter how much they suffered in humiliation and insult last Saturday it is not one-hundredth of what we are all convinced was REALLY planned… They were afraid now that the outside world knew to completely carry out what they had so systematically planned and organized …”
And again from a Berlin lawyer who sent this message from Zurich:
“It was only foreign protests, especially that of America, which prevented even more happenings, a greater number of kidnappings and bloody beatings and possibly one big general pogrom.”
—–
— Challenging Years: The Autobiography of Stephen Wise, pp. 247-8.
Though it’s impossible to know what would have happened in an alternate history, the statements by Wise’s contacts are perfectly in line with what is known about Hitler’s methods. All accounts agree that in the early months after January 30, 1933, it seemed as if the SA Brownshirts were about to rampage across the whole country. Hitler personally is known to have followed a style where he would test the waters, sometimes by having lower ranking personnel run ahead of him, and then when he had measured the response, he would modulate things to a suitable temperature. In 1934, this involved the Night of the Long Knives which put the SA in line.
Most historians ascribe the Night of the Long Knives to complaints from the army about the SA, at a time when Hitler needed the army to prepare for eventual campaigns of expansion to the east. That’s valid as far as it goes. But it’s also very likely that, just as Wise’s contacts have suggested, the SA was probably getting ready in early 1933 to launch a national pogrom, a pogrom which was called off after people like Untermeyer began attempting to rally a boycott. Untermeyer was opposed in this by people like Cyrus Adler and the American Jewish Committee. But it’s quite plausible that he may have stopped an SA pogrom from happening in 1933.
> Mr. Untermeyer gave an address over Station W.A.B.C, the text of which, as printed in the New York Times of August 7th, 1933,
Sure, everyone is presumably aware of that speech. It doesn’t contradict anything which I’ve noted about the way that groups like the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the American Jewish Committee opposed this policy. Untermeyer was frustrated by rival Jewish groups. He was not some overarching leader of “World Jewry.”
The hasbarists working overtime trying to gaslight the dumb goyim into believing organized Jewry didn’t launch an economic boycott against Germany in 1933.
Who you gonna believe, goy, Jewish hasbara or your lying eyes?
You write: “At the expense of Jewish freedom. And for what? What crimes did they all commit? Why do you support the punishment of children ripped from their home and neighborhood?”
My response: Your comments #1057, 1058, and 1059 on this discussion thread all emphasize the unfairness of sending young Jewish children to concentration camps during World War II.
The United States of America also sent young children of Japanese-American civilians to camps during World War II. I don’t see any significant difference between these two policies.
You might enjoy reading my article at https://inconvenienthistory.com/14/1/8184, which explains why Hitler put Jews in camps and ghettos.
That doesn’t seem to be the case.
Who was the dictator of Germany in 1933?
One man? Hitler was one man, by the way.
You and Pretzel keep asserting that organized Jewry/Zionists (political or cultural) were/are just a rag-tag group of gadflies, so underfunded and ill-organized, that they accomplished nothing for the cause of Judea/Israel as a political/cultural group within nations and/or for the prophesied Return, however the lie of your assertions/claims is clearly visible, especially in the 19th, 20th, 21st century, if you just open your eyes. Of course, the primary difference between you and Pretzel is that Pretzel is a Bolshevik, who knows what he is talking/writing on, but he distorts/obfuscates the history, whereas you are just clueless and pathologically altruistic.
If you are interested in information on the various international Jewish political/cultural advocacy organizations, you let me know.
Start here, and ask yourself if you recognize any contradictions or red flags, particularly given hindsight in 2024:
Israel’s Declaration of Independence
ERETZ-ISRAEL was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.
[…] Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses…loving peace but knowing how to defend itself… aspiring towards independent nationhood.
In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.
This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November , 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction…to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.
[…] Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national home-land.
In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned…
On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.
This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign state….
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions….
WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.
WE APPEAL—in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months —to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream —the redemption of Israel.
PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE ALMIGHTY, WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE STH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY, 1948).
David Ben-Gurion
So, this was all accomplished by the blood and war efforts of Whose People?
Oh, stop the pearl clutching, Corvinus. Why don’t you read Deuteronomy in the Torah for a little perspective.
The only thing you help me to understand is the sorry state of this country, and the dire need for packs of Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds in every legacy American home, and/or sitting in the back seat of vehicles upon arrival to a gas station.
Well, the latest Jewish/Zionist mantra would have you believe that there are no innocent children, hence the wholesale murder of Palestinian children by the “chosen ones”.
Jews believed to be a threat to German security and well-being were incarcerated in concentration camps along with their wives and children so as not to separate them. Seems rather humane to me.
Incidentally, my 2019 article relied very heavily upon the Russo books, and they were silent on one additional very surprising detail.
As I’m sure you’re aware, the U.S. Army in that period had virtually no Jewish officers. Yet one of the handful of exceptions, a certain Karl Bendetsen, who always falsely claimed to be the descendant of Gentile Danish lumbermen, became the key architect of the Japanese internment, certainly an extremely odd coincidence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Bendetsen
However, my long article did mention that the earliest and most prominent advocate of the internment policy was California Attorney-General Earl Warren, who used the political issue with great effectiveness to unseat the state’s incumbent Democratic governor in the 1942 election. Warren’s successful gubernatorial campaign was masterminded by Murray Chotiner, a Jewish Beverly Hills attorney with strong underworld connections.
Another awfully intriguing “coincidence.”
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/#the-political-conquest-of-california
“My response: Your comments #1057, 1058, and 1059 on this discussion thread all emphasize the unfairness of sending young Jewish children to concentration camps during World War II.”
Not unfairness, vileness.
“The United States of America also sent young children of Japanese-American civilians to camps during World War II.”
It was heinous as well.
“I don’t see any significant difference between these two policies”.
Of course you don’t. You support both. But the difference is that tens of thousands of Jewish children died at the hands of Nazis.
More strawmen and diversion on your part.
Again, you justify the removal of innocent Jewish children that led to their murder. Sickening.
“The only thing you help me to understand is the sorry state of this country, and the dire need for packs of Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds in every legacy American home, and/or sitting in the back seat of vehicles upon arrival to a gas station.”
LOL, another one of your fantasies.
TT is not death. The more deaths the better. Makes her feel like she is accomplishing the righting of a lost ship at sea. TT has fantasies.
Dumb godless fantasies. She admits to loving death. Death to her is a means to a solution.
“Well, the latest Jewish/Zionist mantra would have you believe that there are no innocent children,”
Red herring. Face it, you support the forced removal and murdering of Jewish children by the Nazis.
“hence the wholesale murder of Palestinian children by the “chosen ones”.”
Of course this is brutal.
“Jews believed to be a threat to German security and well-being were incarcerated in concentration camps along with their wives and children so as not to separate them. Seems rather humane to me.”
Right, believed to be a threat. That’s key right there. And it wasn’t humane as the end result proves. Children subjected to psychological abuse. Parents desperately trying to protect them.
You support their demise.
My fantasy/your reality is the mad dash of Corvinus, fleeing with his Dachshund pack, which he was thoroughly unable to command, from the GeorgeFloyd People after his ridiculous attempt to prove the blessings of diversity in Detroit, Baltimore, New Orleans, St.Louis, Port au Prince, Strawberry Hill, Johannesburg….take your pick; the outcome will be the same.
What, no confirmation bias?
Children sent to concentration camps were not murdered. Children killed as a result of partisan activities were not murdered.
Was it heinous? Japan did attack the U.S., so only ideological idiots such as yourself actually believe that good ole’ Uncle Sam would just ask the Japanese in America – are you loyal to America or Japan? America? Alrighty then….
If I move to Mexico, and the U.S. starts dropping bombs on Mexico (god forbid!), I expect to get the infierno out of Dodge, as the Mexican authorities will surely be looking for me, whether I’m loyal/innocent or not. That’s just the reality of multiculturalism – people tend to align with their own people. Jonathan Pollard received a Hero’s Welcome in Israel….I’m sure you’re familiar with what occurred.
Jewish partisan/revolutionary activities were rampant in Eastern Europe/Germany, and they were supported by Stalin and SLBFDR; if civilians are used for cover, then civilians often die, or they’re corralled where they can’t wreak havoc- that’s war.
You write: “Of course you don’t. You support both. But the difference is that tens of thousands of Jewish children died at the hands of Nazis.”
My response: If Jewish children had stayed in large German cities such as Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg and Cologne, many Jewish children would have died in the Allied bombing attacks.
Also, the Allied insistence on unconditional surrender at the Casablanca conference in January 1943 prolonged World War II. This insistence on German unconditional surrender resulted in far more deaths in the German camps than would have occurred if the Allies had offered the Germans a reasonable peace offer.
The Germans did not conduct a program of mass murder against Jewish children. This is why so many Jewish children survived the German camps. The virtual collapse of Germany’s food, transport, and public health systems and the extreme overcrowding in the German camps at the end of the war led to the unnecessary deaths of large numbers of inmates in the German camps.
“My response: If Jewish children had stayed in large German cities such as Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg and Cologne, many Jewish children would have died in the Allied bombing attacks.”
That may be true, but then they would have been free to leave and go to a safer spot. That is the point. Instead, they were ripped from their homes, robbed of a normal childhood.
“This insistence on German unconditional surrender resulted in far more deaths in the German camps than would have occurred if the Allies had offered the Germans a reasonable peace offer.”
Counterfactual.
“The Germans did not conduct a program of mass murder against Jewish children.”
But they did.
“This is why so many Jewish children survived the German camps.”
They should never have been there in the first place.
Just for the record, Mel-have ANY of your precious ‘Holy’ people ever committed a crime, or caused anyone else any harm, even by accident?
A tour de farce of narcissistic self-pity and rabid race hatred. You’re on form today, Melanie. All that child murder in Gaza got your juices flowing, has it? ‘The Jews cries out in pain as he carpet bombs you to corpse-laden rubble’. Sorry-‘she’.
Warren doesn’t strike me as being all that good of a civil servant. First he mistreated the Japanese, and then he used phony social science reasoning to justify Brown v. Board of Education instead of trying to justify this ruling on more solid foundations. Arguing that black children should interact with white children (well, those white children who live in the same neighborhood as they themselves do) so that they could make friends with them and thus help themselves socially advance in the long-run strikes me as a more effective way of arguing in favor of Brown than relying on phony social science.
Also, Ron, off-topic, but I have a question for you:
Do you know why Japan never considered massively increasing its trade with the Soviet Union after the US imposed an embargo on it in mid-1941? Could trading much more with the Soviet Union for things like oil have allowed Japan to circumvent the US embargo in a smarter way than attacking the US head-on at Pearl Harbor? Was this option ever seriously considered by Japan?
And how would a Russia that was NOT led by the Bolsheviks but where the situation in regards to Japan and the US would be similar (Japan is waging a years-long war in China and the US subsequently launches an embargo against Japan in response to this) have affected this situation? There might not be a WWII in Europe if Russia is not Bolshevik, but how exactly would this have affected the situation in the Far East?
I write: “The Germans did not conduct a program of mass murder against Jewish children” and you reply: “But they did.”
My response: No, the Germans did not conduct a program of mass murder against young Jewish children. There are too many Jewish children who survived the camps for this claim to be valid.
Thomas Buergenthal is a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Sachsenhausen as well as the Polish ghetto of Kielce. Buergenthal, a Harvard-educated lawyer who served on the International Court of Justice at The Hague, was only 10 years old when he arrived in Auschwitz. Buergenthal claims in his memoir, “A Lucky Child”, that his group was spared the selection process because it luckily arrived in Auschwitz instead of Birkenau. Buergenthal thus confirms what Holocaust revisionists know; numerous children were also “lucky” and survived the alleged selection processes at Birkenau. (Source: Buergenthal, Thomas, A Lucky Child: A Memoir of Surviving Auschwitz as a Young Boy, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 2009, pp. 65, 81-83).
Bernard Marks is a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz and Dachau who says he spent five and one-half years in these camps. Marks was 87 years old when he made this statement in March 2017, which means he would have been at most 10 years old when he entered Auschwitz. Similar to Thomas Buergenthal, Marks survived Auschwitz even though he was only a 10-year-old child at the time. (Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/holocaust-survivor-to-ice-director-california-sheriff-history-is-not-on-your-side-162527241.html).
A Jewish man in a video on Facebook claims he was sent to Auschwitz at age 10 and survived. The man says that Dr. Mengele would make selections to determine who went to the gas chambers. He claims he told Dr. Mengele that he was 17 years old, and his life was saved because Dr. Mengele miraculously let him live. The man also claims in this video that 1.5 million children were killed in the gas chambers at Auschwitz. If this man survived at age 10, however, certainly many other Jewish children survived as well. (Source: https://www.facebook.com/LeibelMangel/videos/507430599427355/).
On January 21, 2015, Reuters listed numerous Jewish survivors who were young children while in Auschwitz-Birkenau. These include Jacek Nadolny, who was only age seven when sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau, and Zofia Wareluk, who was born in Auschwitz two weeks before the camp was liberated. Other Jewish survivors who were no older than age 10 while in Auschwitz-Birkenau include Elzbieta Sobczynska, Henryk Duszyk, Danuta Bogdaniuk-Bogucka, Janina Reklajtis and Barbara Doniecka. (Source: https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/auschwitz-survivors-70-years-on-idUSRTR4MC0W).
The survival of young children at Auschwitz-Birkenau is not surprising since Auschwitz-Birkenau served as a transit camp for detainees unfit for work. This is proven by a note dated July 21, 1942, concerning a telephone conversation that took place the day before. SS Hauptsturmführer Theodor Dannecker wrote:
“The question of the evacuation of children was discussed with SS-Obersturmbannführer Eichmann. He decided that transports of children are to take place as soon as transports into the General Government are again possible. SS-Obersturmbannführer Nowak promised to provide about six transports to the General Government at the end of August/beginning of September, which may contain Jews of all kinds (also those unfit for work and old Jews).” (Source: Mattogno, Carlo, Auschwitz: The Case for Sanity, Volume Two, Washington, D.C: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 654).
Despite claims that Josef Mengele performed cruel and lethal experiments on twins at Auschwitz, almost all of the twins Mengele enrolled in his research at Auschwitz survived the war. In fact, so many twins survived Mengele’s research that, in 1984, they helped form an association titled Children of Auschwitz Nazi Deadly Experiment Survivors (CANDLE). This association’s name is a misnomer, because if the experiments were deadly, how could there be so many survivors? Also, if young children unable to work had been immediately selected for gassing at Auschwitz as claimed by “Holocaust” historians, how could so many children at Auschwitz survive the war? (Source: Rudolf, Germar, “Josef Mengele—the Creation of a Myth,” Inconvenient History, Vol. 9, No. 2, 2017 https://inconvenienthistory.com/9/2/4609).
Carlo Mattogno has also prepared a long list of children and twins at Auschwitz who survived Auschwitz-Birkenau. (Source: Mattogno, Carlo and Nyiszli, Miklos, An Auschwitz Doctor’s Eyewitness Account: The Bestselling Tall Tales of Dr. Mengele’s Assistant Analyzed, Uckfield: Castle Hill Publishers, 2020, pp. 391-407. https://shop.codoh.com/book/an-auschwitz-doctors-eyewitness-account-en/467/).
While no one can say exactly how many Jewish children survived the so-called Holocaust, it is notable that the Jewish-led Claims Conference states: “In 2021, the Claims Conference will distribute approximately $658 million in direct compensation to over 260,000 survivors in 83 countries and will allocate approximately $654 million in grants to over 300 social service agencies worldwide that provide vital services for Holocaust survivors, such as home care, food and medicine.” (Source: Claims Conference 70th anniversary 2021 https://he.claimscon.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/70th-anniversary-web-copy.pdf, p. 4).
The over 260,000 “Holocaust” survivors in 83 countries in 2021 is a remarkably large number of survivors for an event that occurred 76 years prior to the year 2021. These survivors have lived extremely long lives. There would not be 260,000 “Holocaust” survivors in 2021 if 6 million Jews had died in the so-called Holocaust, or if Germany had a program of mass extermination against Jewish children.
Says BiBi about the children of Edom. And, their parents, too.
So, he’s wrong, because you say so?
They were free to leave in 1933 – 1939; they wanted a war, and they got one.
Perhaps you should consider the childhood of the average German after WW1. Also consider what the Bolsheviks did to the Ukrainian children, as well.
Why do people keep ripping Jews from their homes?
Germany and the Jewish Problem
by Dr. F. K. Wiebe
[…] But to-day it is evident that the Jewish question is by no means a purely German question, that it causes on the contrary grave anxiety to statesmen in many countries… […] The Jewish question is not an invention of National Socialism, nor is it derived from the antisemitic movements that marked the close of the nineteenth century. If National Socialism can lay claim to any originality in the matter, then only because the National Socialist Party was the first to deduce the logical conclusions from a historical fact. The present German attitude towards the Jewish question is based on the experience made by Europe in the course of two thousand years… The Jewish question undoubtedly dates back some two thousand years. Strictly speaking it is even older…. The Jewish question arises everywhere where the nomadic Jewish race comes into contact with other peoples having a settled abode. This historical fact is admitted by the Jews themselves. The Judische Lexikon… — published long before the advent of National Socialism… confirms the historical continuity of the Jewish question throughout the centuries when it writes (vol. III, column 421): “this Jewish problem is as old as the association of the pronouncedly differentiated and dissimilar Jewish people with other peoples.” […] that on the one hand the Jews have never been able to find a permanent home in which to develop a political and social existence “sui generis,” while on the other hand they have never proved capable of being absorbed by any of the innumerable countries in which they have sought hospitality. […] The first expulsions of Jews on a large scale occurred already in the earliest history of Palestine. 700 years before the Christian era the Assyrian King Sarrukin forced the Jews to leave the country, and his example was followed in 586 B. C. by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. Persecutions in Alexandria and the destruction of Jerusalem ‘by the Romans in A. D. 70 opened a period in which the Jewish question was not less acute than it is to-day….the expulsion of the Jews from England under Edward I in 1290, and their expulsion from Spain… in 1492. There is not a single century in which an expulsion of Jews has not taken place. Every nation in Europe has sought to preserve itself ‘against Jewish domination by all the means at its disposal. It is an incontrovertible historical fact that those peoples with a settled abode who throughout the ages afforded hospitality to nomadic Jewish tribes, invariably regarded the latter as an essentially dissimilar race and not merely as a different religious community. Hence hospitality was only granted to the Jews under special conditions. It is interesting to observe in this connection that in every case where a European State Was weak and financially impoverished, the restrictions imposed on the Jews were greatly relaxed and eventually abrogated. The numerical preponderance of the Jews in Eastern Europe — which has become the reservoir of Jewry in modern times — is to a large extent attributable to the Political and financial weakness of the former Kingdom of Poland.
[…] That modern Jewry did not heed the many warning voices in its own ranks affords another proof of the fact that the Children of Israel have not learnt, or wished to learn, the lessons taught by their own fate — that they are blind to the errors so often committed by themselves in their self complacency….
Another awfully intriguing “coincidence.”
I am not following. What “coincidence”.
How do you know that Murray Choitiner had strong underworld connections. Dinner with a mobster? And anyway who cares. It was Earl Warren that was the strong advocate for interning Japanese Americans. Was Warren Jewish? Maybe an uncle, aunt, grandmother. Did he have mob, no “deep “ mob connections. Maybe when you find the mob conn action you can find a faint Jewish connection and kill two birds with one stone.
Was mayor Daley Irish or Italian? Did he not throw the election to Kennedy, whose father had “deep” Irish mob connections.
What is your point vis a vies the Jews and politics and any other ethnic gangster connections which is just a lot of unprovable smoke. More people voted for Kennedy in Dade County Illinois, then were registered to vote. They had to find old dead people on their voter list to cast a ballot for Kennedy.
I do not recall suggesting that “an entire ethnic group declared war on Germans”. You accused someone earlier of straw-manning you …
The Jewish led international economic boycott against Germany, has been cited as part of the casus belli for the German persecution of Jews. Why would it not be cited? It as a matter of historical interpretation as to whether the boycott was the main reason or not.
However, trying to pretend that the Jewish led international boycott against Germany was not a declaration of Jewish economic war is, self-evidently, not true, especially when the Jewish leader of the international Jewish effort to economically boycott Germany, uses language like “holy war” and “declaration of war”.
I think that’s plain enough for all but the sophists to see …
You chose not to quote this part of my post, which is odd, because this part, rather than the part you quoted, was, self-evidently, the intended message of the post :
I posted that, in reply to you, posting this :
Clearly, as far as we know, Samuel Untermeyer did not say : “Judea Declares War on Germany”
But, Samuel Untermeyer did say : “The holy war in the cause of humanity in which we are embarked” and “Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here.”
Just so that everyone is clear that Untermeyer called for the boycott and characterised it as a “holy war”.
Untermeyer’s obvious sentiment, required no amplification from Beaverbrook’s Daily Express, nor anyone else.
The discussion becomes frivolous when attempts are made to trivialise Untermeyer’s call to wage economic war against Germany, by characterising them as the insignificant mutterings of just one man, speaking for himself, on behalf of nobody.
OTOH, if those attempts are not trivial nor frivolous, then I look forward to seeing identical sonderbehandlung applied by you to statements made by Hitler et al …
Correction “Cook County” not Dade county.
I think it’s true/feasible that Hitler/Western Useful Idiots, i.e., SLBFDR/WC, et al, underestimated the potential for recovery by the Soviets after the initial success of Barbarossa. Either way, the notion that Germany would capture/conquer the Soviets wholly, within just a few months, is/was unrealistic, and would certainly have been predicated on a fluke, such as an unexpected Surprise Attack, which nearly did work, as expected/hoped by AH.
So, why was the potential for recovery so great, Pretzel? I suggest both SLBFDR/WC obviously knew the U.S. would eventually intervene; they knew Lend/Lease would eventually benefit the Soviet efforts – I suggest they knew what was going to occur, but perhaps didn’t fully understand Stalin’s ultimate goals/capabilities.
Here are a few excerpts from The Chief Culprit, Viktor Suvorov
In 1941, the German army, by a crushing blow, defeated gigantic gatherings of Soviet troops in the border regions… Communist historians explained what happened very simply: the tanks were obsolete, and therefore useless. The whole world laughed at Stalin and at his “obsolete” tanks….
To this question, an equally simple answer was prepared: why count them if they were obsolete? For the six decades since the disaster of 1941, the number of Soviet tanks has never officially been named. Only after the dismantling of the Soviet Union has the truth slowly started to emerge….
What were these “obsolete” tanks? A few thousand of them had the “BT” marker. Their spiritual father was the great American tank genius George Walter Christie. Soviet commanders and designers were the only ones to see the value of Christie’s achievements. Two of Christie’s tanks were purchased and shipped to the Soviet Union with fake documents, in which they were listed as agricultural tractors. On December 24, 1930, a ship carrying the “tractors” of Christie’s design left New York.
[…] Hitler destroyed the plans of a Soviet invasion, but he did not even have a hint of Stalin’s true might, of the seriousness of his intentions, of how well Stalin was prepared to lead a war of aggression….
Meanwhile, slave labor flourished in the Soviet Union, millions of people were in concentration camps and prisons…
[…] In these sweet months, Europe drew a breath of relief and believed that there would be no war, while Trotsky already knew that it would soon come…In order to fully believe Trotsky, let us listen to another one of his prophecies, uttered on June 21, 1939. At that time intense talks between Britain, France, and the USSR against Germany were under way…Trotsky, however, warned: “The USSR will move its entire mass towards the borders of Germany precisely at the moment when the Third Reich will be drawn into a fight for a new division of the world.”
Everything happened just as Trotsky had predicted….we have to ask: how could he know all this? Trotsky did not keep any secrets. He was the organizer of the Communist takeover of Petrograd in 1917, he was the creator of and a former commander of the Red Army, the Soviet representative at Brest-Litovsk, the first leader of Soviet diplomacy, a former leader of the USSR, and a former helmsman of the World Revolution. He knew better than anyone the nature of Communism, of the Red Army, and of Stalin. Trotsky said that all his predictions were based on open Soviet publications. Trotsky was the very first in the world to understand Stalin’s game, which was not understood by the Western leaders, and which at first was not understood by Hitler.
The end.
Pretzel, the ability of Jewry to accurately predict great wars/conflicts is seen throughout history; I don’t think they are actually predicting….they are leaking/bragging.
Is it, or is it not, true that Stalin had murdered much of Russia’s prominent/experienced military leaders? I don’t think Hitler was wrong in his assessment that the Soviet military was indeed weakened for lack of experienced leadership; his mistake was in underestimating the advances in technology/mobilization in Soviet Russia, and of course, he underestimated the perfidious (there you go, Franny) nature of both the regimes in America/England. Or, maybe he didn’t, but decided to fight anyway rather than to just Lie back and think of World Jewry….
Thank you. Now I recall that the one I was thinking about was Prof. Franz Neumann. But I’m glad you provided even more substantial info than what I remembered, I’m saving this post of yours. I cannot recall which of the many articles or books I’ve read, probably either by Mattogno or Graf, maybe Faurisson, where they raised some of these issues.
The actual distrust of the holocaust atrocity propaganda by contemporary Allied war leaders/politicians, intel and military officers and scholars – to the point many did not even mention it – is extremely telling of how these people in fact knew or strongly suspected the alleged extermination of Jews in chemical slaughterhouses was nothing but black propaganda.
Untermyer described The Jews as The Aristocrats of the World, and you can not pretzel your way out of that admission/fact, Pretzel.
Are we to be informed by your revelation that Jews bicker amongst themselves? What about my supposition that, ultimately, Jews always stick together, and care not for their deleterious effects on Gentile society, even if a few do publicly object?
AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE (AJCOMMITTEE). The American Jewish Committee was established in 1906 for the purpose of defending the rights of Jews around the world through diplomatic intercession and education. Its founders, primarily wealthy American Jews of German descent, frowned upon Zionist ideology and the idea of a Jewish state, but many of them sympathized with the notion of Palestine as a haven for Jewish refugees. They expressed “profound appreciation” for the 1917 Balfour Declaration on the grounds that “there are Jews everywhere who, moved by traditional sentiment, yearn for a home in the Holy Land for the Jewish people.” American Jewish Committee president Louis Marshall successfully negotiated with World Zionist Organization president Chaim Weizmann for the creation, in 1929, of the enlarged Jewish Agency for Palestine, bringing into its fold a large contingent of non-Zionists. Marshall himself was named chairman of the agency’s American wing and was succeeded, after his death in late 1929, by fellow AJCommittee leader and non-Zionist Felix Warburg. The AJCommittee opposed the 1937 Peel Commission plan for partitioning Palestine, since it would have included the establishment of a sovereign Jewish state.
At the same time, the committee consistently opposed British restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine during the 1930s and 1940s.
A series of conciliation meetings between AJCommittee leaders and David Ben-Gurion in Connecticut during 1941-1942 ended unsuccessfully because of opposition both from Zionists who would not permit Ben-Gurion to compromise on the goal of Jewish statehood and from those elements within the AJCommittee who opposed cooperation with the Zionist movement. Joseph Proskauer, an avowed anti-Zionist who became president of the AJCommittee in early 1943, strove to put further distance between the organization and Zionism. The AJCommittee participated briefly in the August
1943 American Jewish Conference, but withdrew after the conference endorsed the goal of a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine.
In the wake of the Holocaust, the AJCommittee gradually embraced the idea of creating a Jewish state in Palestine, and it endorsed the 1947 United Nations partition plan. After the establishment of Israel, AJCommittee leaders tangled with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion over his remarks urging American Jews to immigrate to the Jewish state. In 1950 and again in 1961, protests by AJCommittee president Jacob Blaustein persuaded Ben-Gurion to issue public statements affirming American Jewry’s exclusive loyalty to the United States and backtracking on his suggestions that U.S. Jews had a religious obligation to immigrate to Israel.
While differing on occasion from specific Israeli policies, the AJ-Committee today is supportive of Israel, issues pro-Israel publications, organizes visits to Israel by American academics, and maintains a liaison office in Jerusalem, in addition to its primary activities, which focus on international Jewish concerns and interfaith relations.
The end.
The letters (excerpts) to Wise you quoted make no real sense to me. In any event, Wise, Untermyer, Rothschild(s), Warburg(s)….are all cut from the same MolochCloth.
WISE, STEPHEN SAMUEL (1874-1949). American Zionist leader Stephen Wise was born in Hungary and brought to the United States as a small child. Raised in New York, Wise traveled to Vienna to study….
As the rabbi of Beth Israel, a Reform synagogue in Portland, Oregon, Wise quickly gained fame both as a charismatic orator and as a social activist. One of the few Zionists in the Reform rabbinate….Wise
had served as a delegate to the Second Zionist Congress (1898) and helped organize the Federation of American Zionists. In Oregon, he established the community’s first Zionist group. Wise returned to New York in 1907 to found the Free Synagogue, a pulpit from which he spoke out forcefully on a variety of issues, including union rights, women’s suffrage, race relations, and Tammany Hall corruption. He was a cofounder of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (1909) and the American Civil Liberties Union (1920).
When Louis Brandeis assumed the leadership of American Zionism in 1914, Wise returned to an active role in the movement, becoming a senior aide to Brandeis and eventually becoming chairman of the Provisional Executive Committee for General Zionist Affairs when Brandeis was chosen for the Supreme Court. At the same time, Wise led the movement to establish the American Jewish Congress as a pro-Zionist, democratically elected alternative to the existing major Jewish organizations. He also took part in the negotiations over the wording of the Balfour Declaration, helped secure the support of President Woodrow Wilson for Zionism, and served as a Zionist spokesman at the Paris peace conference after World War I.
Wise joined Brandeis in resigning from the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) over Brandeis’s 1921 dispute with Chaim Weizmann but remained close to the ZOA leadership and in 1925 was named chairman of the United Palestine Appeal. At the same time, Wise served as president of the American Jewish Congress…. In 1936 he established the World Jewish Congress to lead the fight against anti-Semitism internationally.
Wise’s early and fervent support for Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal gave him a level of access to the White House that no other Jewish leader enjoyed, but access did not equal influence. Wise was unable to persuade President Roosevelt to intervene against Great Britain’s 1939 White Paper severely restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine….
As news of the Nazi genocide reached the West in 1942, grassroots American Jewish opinion increasingly turned against Wise’s cautious approach. The groundswell of calls for a more activist policy by the Jewish leadership compelled Wise to accept the appointment of Abba Hillel Silver as cochairman of the American Zionist Emergency Council in the summer of 1943. Working side by side only intensified the rivalry between the two men, which was as much personal as it was political. With popular opinion behind him, Silver effectively usurped Wise’s role as America’s most prominent Zionist spokesman. Wise’s final defeat came at the 1946 Zionist Congress, when he backed Chaim Weizmann in a losing struggle against the activist camp led by Silver and David Ben-Gurion.
It’s quite plausible that no pogrom was intended in 1933, unless of course, you mean a pogrom by Jewish definition – Stop bleeding Europa dry, otherwise get out! Or, you’re fired from banking/media/academia because you won’t stop lying/cheating! – that pogrom? Sure, that pogrom was definitely planned.
Do you want to know what I want to know, Pretzel? Maybe you can help me out – when dearest Rabbi Wise was pounding his fists on his pulpit over America’s poor race relations, did he apologize for the African slave trade on behalf of international Jewry?
The information/history on the American Jewish Committee and Wise is attributed to RAFAEL MEDOFF AND CHAIM I. WAXMAN, btw.
Regarding the story of Thomas—His family was imprisoned in a forced-labor camp in Kielce. In August 1944, Thomas and his parents were sent to Auschwitz. Typically, Jewish children Thomas’s age were murdered in the gas chambers upon arrival. But, because there was no selection when the transport from the Kielce labor camp arrived there, he managed to survive. His mother was taken to the women’s section of the camp, but Thomas and his father initially remained together in the men’s camp. They too were soon separated. In January 1945, Thomas was evacuated from Auschwitz on a death march. He was then sent by rail to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where he was liberated in April 1945. Thomas’s father did not survive. After the war, Thomas was reunited with his mother.
Brutal.
Bernard Marks—“When I was a little boy in Poland, for no other reason but for being Jewish, I was hauled off by the Nazis. And for no other reason I was picked up and separated from my family, who was exterminated in Auschwitz”. He was imprisoned at Auschwitz and Dachau, where he spent his childhood doing manual labor. Only five members of his extended family of about 200 survived the war.
Brutal
“The over 260,000 “Holocaust” survivors in 83 countries in 2021 is a remarkably large number of survivors for an event that occurred 76 years prior to the year 2021. “
You keep missing the point—the children should have never been there in the first place. And it’s remarking all right, given the brutality they endured. There was a systematic effort by Nazis to exterminate children.
“However, trying to pretend that the Jewish led international boycott against Germany was not a declaration of Jewish economic war is, self-evidently, not true, especially when the Jewish leader of the international Jewish effort to economically boycott Germany, uses language like “holy war” and “declaration of war”.”
Right, ONE PERSON made this declaration, which was then used as the pretext to violently move families into ghettos and camps, along with leading to the brutal physical and psychological exploitation of innocent Jewish children.
You condone this rounding up. Make no mistake about it.
“They were free to leave in 1933 – 1939; they wanted a war, and they got one“
They were Germans. They had the liberty to remain there. Yet innocent children were systematically exterminated. You have no moral compass.
“Perhaps you should consider the childhood of the average German after WW1. Also consider what the Bolsheviks did to the Ukrainian children, as well.”
Another red herring. Have you no shame?
They were Egyptians
They were Babylonians
They were Persians
They were Greeks
They were Romans
.
.
.
They were British
They were French
They were Russians
They are Americans
Excerpt from Pollard claims Jews ‘will always have dual loyalty,’ whether they know it or not:
You write: “There was a systematic effort by Nazis to exterminate children.”
My response: As I document in my comment #1078, there was not a systematic effort by Nazis to exterminate children.
You write: “Typically, Jewish children Thomas’s age were murdered in the gas chambers upon arrival.”
My response: There were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
In the case of Thomas Buergenthal, he writes that he was later transferred to Birkenau and lived in Camp Sector E, which had housed many thousands of Gypsy families. Buergenthal explains how he was spared the selection process at Birkenau:
“Soon after we had arrived in Auschwitz, my father, seeing how routine selections were conducted and that children were most at risk, came up with a strategy to beat the system. Every morning when we had to line up for the daily counting exercise, I would try to stand all the way in the back and very close to the entrance of the barrack. As soon as we had been counted and if it appeared that there might be a selection, I would try to slip back into the barrack and hide. That strategy saved me a number of times. It was not always easy to execute, however, because I had to disappear without being seen by the SS or the barrack boss, but I was never caught.” (Source: Buergenthal, Thomas, A Lucky Child: A Memoir of Surviving Auschwitz as a Young Boy, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 2009, p. 74).
Buergenthal says he escaped other random selections by obtaining a job as an errand boy for a Kapo friend. In late October 1944, Buergenthal says, he was then sent to a barrack at a hospital camp. The SS one night dragged out all the people in this barrack to be gassed, but Buergenthal says he was lucky again. Buergenthal writes:
“It was a miracle, I thought, that the SS had not found me. Soon, though, I learned how I had been saved. When we first arrived at this barrack, a red X had been placed on the backs of our individual index cards. My friend, the young Polish doctor, apparently tore up my card and issued me a new one without the red X. When the SS came in and demanded the cards with the red mark, my card was not among them. The doctor had saved my life, and my nightmares saved me from witnessing what was happening that night and possibly giving myself away.” (Source: Ibid., p. 81).
So, Thomas Buergenthal claims he was spared execution for the following reasons:
1. He first arrived in Auschwitz instead of Birkenau, where a selection process did not take place;
2. His father came up with a method to beat the system. During the daily counting exercise, Burgenthal would try to stand all the way in the back and very close to the entrance of the barrack. As soon as he had been counted and if it appeared that there might be a selection, he would try to slip back into the barrack and hide. Buergenthal claims this strategy saved him a number of times;
3. Buergenthal says he escaped other random selections by obtaining a job as an errand boy for a Kapo friend;
4. In late October 1944, Buergenthal says he was then sent to a barrack at a hospital camp. Burgenthal claims he was spared a gassing there because a young Polish doctor tore up his original card with a red X on the back of it and issued him a new card without the red X. When the SS came in and demanded the cards with the red mark, Buergenthal’s card was not among them. The doctor had allegedly saved Buergenthal’s life.
Buergenthal thus confirms what Holocaust revisionists know; numerous children were also “lucky” and survived the alleged selection processes at Birkenau.
You write about Bernard Marks: “He was imprisoned at Auschwitz and Dachau, where he spent his childhood doing manual labor. Only five members of his extended family of about 200 survived the war.”
My response: Bernard Marks never explains why approximately 195 members of his extended family did not survive the war, while he did. If the Germans had a mass extermination program against Jews, Marks as a young child would not have been able to survive five and one-half years in the German camps.
1. Maybe, but your outrage/righteous indignation is over ruined childhoods, yes? So, the ruination of German/Ukrainian children by/due to Jewish machinations is not completely unrelated or irrelevant. So, the ruination of Palestinian children/Edom is what?
2. No.
1. They were not Germans. – “ Thus, the Talmud states that “One should always live in Eretz Israel, even in a city in which the majority of the population is gentile, and one should not live outside of the Land, even in a city in which the majority is Jewish. … Whoever lives outside of the Land is as if he were committing idolatry.” – Medoff/Waxman
2. Yes, they did. And many Shoah victims testified to prosperous, peaceful, lives in Hitlerite Germany until around 1938 – then “the Goyim were always marching.” “The Goy destroyed our temple!” I guess something strange happened in 1938….
3. Nope.
4. Fine by me.
5. You need to pay attention, and listen to your elders/betters, and listen/read closely to what many Jews say/write. Don’t you read the Unz articles? Do you fact-check anything?
Eretz Israel was never far from the consciousness of Jews during the subsequent 1,878-year absence of Jewish sovereignty in the land….For Jews around the world, the Holy Land and the dream of return were embedded in daily religious rituals and prayers as well as in law and lore. Each day, in the morning, afternoon, and evening prayers, as well as in the blessings recited after each meal, Jews prayed for the return to Zion and the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Three days each year in the Jewish ritual calendar were set aside as fast days commemorating aspects of the destruction of the Temple and the loss of the Holy Land…. The daily prayers are recited facing east, toward Jerusalem.
The service at the Passover feast, the Seder, concludes with the prayer “Next year in Jerusalem!”
Talmudic lore is replete with statements affirming the superior status of the Holy Land, the obligation to live there, and the absolute faith in the ultimate collective return of the Jewish people to their rightful land…. Aggadic literature describes prominent rabbinical sages in the Diaspora tearing their clothes in mourning over their failure to remain in the land of Israel, an obligation that they characterized as being “equal to all of the commandments in the Torah.” – Medoff/Waxman
“Beginning with the German Jew Moses Mendelssohn (1729-1786) and a coterie of Jewish intellectuals known as the Maskilim, Jews began to demanded to be accommodated via changes in European culture. Mendelssohn, who is often held up as the first “assimilated” Jew, and the first real Jewish intellectual who wanted to be ‘part of German culture,’ advocated for “tolerance” and famously asked, “For how long, for how many millennia, must this distinction between the owners of the land and the stranger continue? Would it not be better for mankind and culture to obliterate this distinction?”[36] The very first Jewish intrusion into Western culture was thus accompanied by a call for the obliteration of borders and the migration and settlement rights of “the stranger.” From the very beginning of Jewish activism in Western culture, it has been in the interest of Jews to undermine the position of the owners of the land and to promote “tolerance,” and it was Mendelssohn’s 1781 work, On the Civil Amelioration of the Condition of the Jews, that is said to have played a significant part in the rise of “tolerance” in Western culture. Although Mendelssohn and the Maskilim postured as Jews who wished to modernize Judaism, they were in fact the first Jewish intellectual movement and the earliest pioneers of what would become the Culture of Critique.” – Marshall Yeats, The Jewish Question, TUR today
White Fang knew the law well: to oppress the weak and obey the strong. – Jack London
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. – Twain
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. – Twain
Learn to connect the dots; and Corvinus, invest in – 1. Glossary of Common Literary Terms; 2. A pack of Belgian Malinois. – tttt
The famous Express headline is just about all I know of the evidence. But it is one thing to show that there was sn attempt at boycott launched by some (only) of the Jewish diaspora factions. It doesn’t tell us that it worked at all and it is quite condistent with the McNally version whic seems to be that prearranged attacks on Jewish businesses in Gernany whrn the Nazis came to power were in fact moderated by the American and UK Jewish reaction. That last I had never heard and I am still left wondering about thecapparent inconsistency of the Hasvara moves to get Jews pescefully snd ptofitably out of Germany.
I suspect systematic disregard on UR threads of the fact that, once concentration camp commsnders and guards realised that the Getmans were about to lose the war women and children were no longer killed. All the waffle that disregards dates is worthless.
Although the first clash of Japanese and USSR forces had led to Soviet victory the Soviet Union would have remained worried about building up Japanese strength or even just its economy.
“As I document in my comment #1078, there was not a systematic effort by Nazis to exterminate children.”
Of course there was, as the historical has shown.
“There were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau.”
Actually there were.
“So, Thomas Buergenthal claims he was spared execution for the following reasons”
He should have never been there in the first place, nor have been put in the position to be potentially executed.
“If the Germans had a mass extermination program against Jews, Marks as a young child would not have been able to survive five and one-half years in the German camps.”
Not if he was one of the lucky ones to escape execution. Not every Jew exterminated. But enough people did, including his family.
“So, the ruination of German/Ukrainian children by/due to Jewish machinations is not completely unrelated or irrelevant. So, the ruination of Palestinian children/Edom is what?”
Another red herring. Regardless, of course what is happening there is tragic.
“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. – Twain”
You’ve proven to be a fine idiot.
And I only “vaguely recall” that you have had derogatory things to say about Eliott Higgins, the founder and chairman of Bellingcat, possibly when I cited Bellingcat while seeking to pour doubt on your apparent beliefs about what caused MH17 to crash.
I have just had this article by Tom Lamont for Prospect linked to me
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/world/64130/eliot-higgins-the-man-who-verifies
It should interest you because your and Higgins’ approach to finding important truth not reported by MSM journalism are very different but also in competition. It would be interesting to read your up to date appraisal of this competitor who is likely to be used for supplementing UR insights and versions. You might care to protect your readers from inapùpropriate reliance on Bellingcat.
Well, I’ve never looked into it, but Japan and the Soviets had always been very bitter enemies, and in fact the Soviets had just inflicted a crushing defeat on the Japanese army a couple of years earlier. So I can’t imagine a Soviet-Japanese alliance would have been likely. Anyway, I’m not sure if the Soviets had any of the necessary pipelines or railroads to transfer large quantities of such resources to the Far East. Meanwhile, the oil and other resources of South East Asia were very weakly held and easily seized.
Someone pointed out that if the Germans had avoided occupying Holland as in WWI, the Dutch would have still been under overwhelming German influence and certainly would have made their Indonesian oil available to their Axis partners in Japan, perhaps dramatically altering the course of the war.
Well, you’d originally been shocked that anyone would make the crazy claim that Jewish people had anything to do with looting the Japanese. And I’ve now pointed out:
(1) A Jewish mob-lawyer from Chicago totally controlled the distribution of the Japanese (and German) property and sold it to his Jewish Syndicate friends, sometimes as a price 99% below its true market value, helping to create two of the wealthiest Jewish families in America. In return, those Jewish friends gave him gigantic kick-backs that made him extremely wealthy.
(2) The top political advisor of the leading public figure demanding the internment of the Japanese was a different Jewish mob-lawyer from Beverly Hills.
(3) The actual architect of the Japanese internment policy was a Jewish military officer, one of the tiny handful then found in the U.S. Army.
So although Jews were then only about 3-4% of the American population and probably far lower than that in California, almost all of the key figures involved in the Japanese internment and the seizure and distribution of their billions of dollars of assets happened to be Jewish. That’s the “coincidence” I’m describing, which you apparently never learned in your local Synagogue classes.
Look, you’re a total ignoramus on just about everything, and since you’ve emphasized that your eyesight problems prevent you from doing any serious reading, I don’t see any cure for your condition unless someone here is aware of some stupid video on that subject.
From everything I’ve read, the worldwide Jewish boycott against all German products was launched almost immediately after Hitler democratically became chancellor, and was potentially extremely damaging, given Germany’s desperate financial condition and its total dependence upon exports. I think the boycott was especially effective in most of the U.S., one of Germany’s leading markets.
Supposedly, as a retaliatory show-of-force, the Nazis organized a one-day boycott of Jewish-owned German businesses, but since the Jewish groups totally dominated the global media, the “unprovoked” anti-Jewish boycott was the story universally reported in the media and the history books.
In exactly the same way, the MSM universally reported that the Hamas attack in October was “totally unprovoked” although thousands of unarmed Palestinian civilians had been killed by the Israeli military during the previous few years.
Over the years and the decades, I’ve gradually come to the rueful conclusion that not a single word presented in mainstream sources regarding Jewish or Israeli issues can be assumed correct, and quite often represents the absolute inversion of reality.
I can’t bring mysrlf to quibble with your last par though “single word” has diverted me to a long and remarkably flccid lot of Gertrude Stein quotes when looking for that nice one from someone (Dorothy Parker perhaps) about every word being a lie – even the and and…..
For the rest it is you that had a problem because you ignored the prompt for my comment which was the allegation that the Nazis had prepared a comprehensive list of Jewish businesses which must have dated back to long before January 1933 and so gave some support to the view that the Nazi boycott would have been more like a savage pogrom if ot werent for the “declaration of war”. To answer a query I left unresolved I posit that the SA was for a pogrom whereas Hitler was far morw cunning and happy to make Jews pay to escape amd cause trouble in Palestine.
I give you documentation in comments #1078 and 1091 that there was not a systematic effort by Nazis to exterminate Jewish children, and you reply “Of course there was, as the historical has shown.”
My response: So, can you give me your evidence and documentation that Germany had a systematic effort to exterminate Jewish children? You have so far failed to give me any documentation to support your claim.
Wow, that Wikipedia article really paints “Bendetsen” as a scoundrel. He made the Japanese internment laws much more severe than others intended, he extravagantly lied about his origins and changed his name to back up his lies, he lied about his wartime activities, to a presidential library, on the record, and was active, in 1983, in trying to prevent Japanese Americans from getting any reparations for their wartime mistreatment. His lifelong friends described him as “ruthless”.
Every word she writes is a lie, including ‘and’ and ‘the’.”
(on Lillian Hellman)
Mary McCarthy
That’s what I was looking for.
There are Jewish truth tellers out there.
They’re desperately trying to warn their fellow Jews that a backlash is coming, for the umpteenth time.
Don’t say you weren’t warned, Queen Esther…
Is 2023 USA a repeat of 1933 Germany?
A holy war which he was declaring personally, just as Osama bin Laden declared a jihad against the West in 1998. But Osama was not speaking for the majority of Muslims, and Untermeyer did not speak for the majority of Jews.
> Trotsky, however, warned: “The USSR will move its entire mass towards the borders of Germany precisely at the moment when the Third Reich will be drawn into a fight for a new division of the world.”
This seems like another fake quote. I just my time combing up and down through the text of “The Riddle of the USSR” as it appears in Writings of Leon Trotsky [1938-39]. The date for this is June 21, 1939.
—–
Stalin wants war less than anyone since he is more afraid of it than anyone… But the basic task of Stalin’s policy is not to create the most favorable conditions in the event of war, but to avoid war.
—–
Pp. 361-2, Pathfinder Press, 1974.
If you think you can actually track down and authenticate this alleged quote from Trotsky, then give it a whirl. But don’t bother trusting quotes from Rezun without checking original sources.
Yeah, Untermeyer was just some whack job Jew speaking solely for himself, goy… he was simply another Osama bin Laden.
Excerpts from Encyclopedia.com’s Boycott, Anti-Nazi:
> Untermyer described The Jews as The Aristocrats of the World
The fact is that Untermeyer was not the leader of Jews as a unified group, and this is why his calls for attempting to organize a boycott were opposed by the American Jewish Committee and the Board of Deputies of British Jewry.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/1933-anti-nazi-boycott
—–
At the emergency meeting, the AJCongress announced its intention to hold a Madison Square Garden rally on March 27. J. George Fredman, Commander-in-Chief of the Jewish War Veterans, called for an American boycott of German imports. After Fredman spoke, Joseph Proskauer and Judge Irving Lehman of the American Jewish Committee publicly counseled restraint. Lehman feared that any rally in America “may add to the terrible dangers of the Jews in Germany.” Lehman pleaded, “I implore you in the name of humanity, don’t let anger pass a resolution which will kill Jews in Germany.”
—–
> Do you know why Japan never considered massively increasing its trade with the Soviet Union after the US imposed an embargo on it in mid-1941?
US sanctions were imposed upon Japan after Barbarossa had been launched. Japan had held back from making final moves into Indochina, until it was confident that the USSR was about to fall. Since Germany and Japan were nominal allies, it’s obvious that Hitler would not have been pleased if Russo-Japanese trade had started at that point. Japan simply hoped that Barbarossa would succeed to a point where Japan could join at the very end and share in some of the spoils.
Ad hominim attacks are the final refuge of the out-argued scoundrel.
Why not simply supply some authenticated forensic evidence to support all your allegations???
What verifiable forensic evidence have you ever supplied?
Repeating the same lies and nonsense over and over again is not verified evidence; verified nonsense yes, verified evidence, not likely.
“…Over the years and the decades, I’ve gradually come to the rueful conclusion that not a single word presented in mainstream sources regarding Jewish or Israeli issues can be assumed correct, and quite often represents the absolute inversion of reality. …”
Hence my admonition to one and all: Everything one sees/hears/reads in the mass media including official text books about Germany and WW I & II, the exact opposite is much closer to the truth.
That is why your blog Mr Unz is such a boon to the unveiling of truth via the free exchange of ideas and opinions.
You may have noticed my oft-repeated request for verifiable forensic evidence to support all those allegations of nefarious German activity.
In thousands upon thousands of postings in various discussion threads on your blog, nary one posting ever pointed to such evidence.
There is a moral in that.
Brother Nathanael’s latest instalment…
HITLER’S NEW POPULARITY
Video Link
Your insistence on trying to trivialise Untermeyer’s war cry, is noted once again.
Untermeyer led the US Jewish effort to economically boycott Germany. He called his announcement a “declaration of war” and referred to it as a “holy war”.
That economic war became international and had a significant effect on Germany’s economy.
It is plain for all to see that you are simply parroting the standard propaganda and have nothing of substance to support your frivolous argument, other than your juvenile claim that his “declaration of holy war” was the lone muttering of an insignificado, on behalf of nobody, apropos of nothing, which had no effect …
All of which are demonstrably untrue.
Yoiks! I had not foreseen your carefully laid and highly effective logic trap there. Silly me.
I must remember that the next time anyone contradicts Corvinus, then they must be in favour of Jewish infanticide …
That’s a very important lesson. Thank you …
Are we all idiots? Have you done any due diligence at all when rebutting the claims/assertions made on this thread? I do not understand you, as I would be embarrassed to argue by (often inappropriate) literary platitudes = Counterfactual! Confirmation bias! Straw Man!
Critical thinking/due diligence/let me show you something…..
When did the USA abandon the gold standard? Was it April, 1933?
The 1933 International Boycott of Germany
By Udo Walendy
[…] In late July, 1933, Reichsbank representatives approached London brokers for an “embarrassingly small” loan of 40 million marks (slightly more than 3 million pounds sterling)….
London refused, as did the U.S. Germany could not count on any financial aid from abroad. On August 6, Untermyer returned to New York from Amsterdam and greeted his compatriots in a continent-wide radio broadcast which was immediately arranged for him…
The end.
So, is Walendy accurate?
STOCK EXCHANGE INVESTMENTS IN
THEORY AND PRACTICE
BY SIR JOSEPH BURN, K.B.E., F.I.A.
The currency was re-established in 1924 by creating a new Reichsmark based on gold and equal to 1 billion old marks. This was in accordance with the provisions of the Dawes Plan, a plan prepared by an international committee of experts to deal with the German budget and currency problems. To ensure the establishment of currency stability the committee proposed an international loan, and in October 1924 this was issued to provide a total sum of 800 million gold marks. This loan was issued in New York, London, and various Continental centres in October 1924….
It must not be supposed that anyone imagined that Germany could pay an immense war debt immediately, but it was believed that this could be accomplished by means of borrowing. If debts are paid out of borrowed money, the day of reckoning is merely deferred and exactly the same means of payment will be necessary as at any earlier date, which is a simple fact often overlooked by people who, having lived beyond their means, imagine they can remedy this by having recourse to moneylenders.
It is necessary here to point out that money lent for remunerative purposes is an entirely different matter…. The simple truth is that destructive warfare results in impoverishment and no financial jugglery can alter this.
[…] When money was in the form of some metal such as gold, which was in pre-War days accepted throughout the world as being of intrinsic value…
It will thus be seen that the only way in which foreign debts can be paid is by the sale abroad of the natural productions of the debtor country and by the sale abroad of the labour and services used in converting raw materials into finished articles, and that part of the proceeds of these sales must be used to pay for the imports essential to the continued life of the nation. Hence, if the Allied nations wish to exact reparations from Germany they must be prepared to buy from her sufficient to enable her to live and to earn the foreign currency to pay her debts. The matter does not, however, end there….
Since the inability of Germany to meet the service of her foreign debt arises from the unwillingness or inability of other countries to buy her exports, it is argued that a country which does buy more from Germany than it sells to her is entitled to receive more favourable treatment than a country whose balance of trade is adverse to Germany. In order to secure this, certain countries had established Exchange Clearing Systems.
[…] In July 1933, owing to inability to obtain sufficient foreign exchange, a moratorium was declared in respect of all German external debt…
The end.
I’ll let you take it from here, Corvinus, although I doubt you will make any attempt to consider the actual ramifications of an economic war/boycott of Germany in 1933, and you can therefore accuse me of confirmation bias, although, as I’ve said before, sometimes confirmation bias is pattern recognition/learning through experience.
I think I’m going to hit Pretzel with another thousand word dissertation on why he’s wrong about Untermyer and that ineffective boycott; feel free to peruse at your leisure, unless of course, you are familiar with what occurred.
Oh, I see. Thanks.
In the same way that GB’s Declarations of War against Germany, were not fully supported by every British citizen, so therefore were not really Declarations of War …
Interesting point.
Untermeyer was a non-state actor, but he self-evidently Declared Holy War on Germany on behalf of all who were thereby inspired and persuaded to enjoin that war.
It did grow into a rather large and effective international economic war against Germany.
The leader of the US Jewish economic war effort, Untermeyer, in making that Declaration of War, cannot be ignored, no matter how much pressure you feel to toe the kosher propaganda line …
Whether or not Untermyer was King of the Jews, the stranglehold on Germany by Jewish interests was nearly absolute before the rise of NS, and whilst I will/do accept there were various responses/defenses proposed by various Jewish groups, the collapse/ruination/thwarting of pro-German policies/NS was the goal of all Jews.
The 1933 International Boycott of Germany
By Udo Walendy
[…] Consequently, Jewish organizations outside of Germany set in motion an international boycott with the specific goal of bringing down the fledgling National Socialist government…
Key personalities and organizations involved included Dr. Nahum Goldmann of the World Jewish Congress and the World Zionist Organization; Stephen Wise, president of the American Jewish Congress and key player at the Second Preparative World Jewish Conference of September 5,1933 in Geneva; the Jewish War Veterans; Samuel Untermyer… W. W. Cohen, vice-president of the A. J. C., who organized a parade with banners proclaiming economic war on Germany…
[…] The message was clear: the anti-Nazi boycott was killing Germany’s economy…. From January to April 1933, the Reich’s exports had dropped by 10 percent.
Stimulated by continual press reports on “German atrocities” (in peacetime), which Schacht had emphatically denied, the boycott protests spread to the large cities of almost every country and even as far as Argentina and Australia, while, predominantly in Britain and the Netherlands, labor unionists and Labor Party leaders supported the boycott movement. The German fur, textile and diamond trades were hit particularly hard. In the first quarter of 1933, Germany’s vital surplus of export was less than half the 1932 figure. Demands were already being made in the United States (by John Foster Dulles) to have German private and public assets seized in compensation for her debts, thus dissolving German international trade assets.
[…] On Samuel Untermyer’s recommendation, the World Jewish Economic Conference was postponed to July 20 and relocated to Amsterdam. About 35 countries were to participate. For weeks they had exchanged experiences, discussed successful boycott ideas, compiled long lists of manufacturers and sellers seeking alternatives for German goods, discussed countermeasures against boycott-breakers and even founded a special boycott publication: The Jewish Economic Forum. Untermyer’s assessment of the situation, according to Black [Edwin Black, in his [book] The Transfer Agreement – The Untold Story of the Secret Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine]:
He had taken pains to explain to conservative Anglo-Jewish leaders that a de facto popular international boycott already existed: “In Poland, it is incredibly good; in Czechoslovakia, fantastically good; in France, in England, fair; in America, very good.”
Black continues:
The declaration of war officially proclaimed, the soldiers of Israel broke up into three businesslike commissions … working with great speed, the conferees unanimously established the new world organization they had promised. Named the World Jewish Economic Federation, it would be headquartered in London, with Lord Melchett as its honorary chairman and Untermyer as its president. (2)
But this personal initiative on the part of Melchett and Untennyer was thought of as a “palace revolution” by the traditional Jewish organizations, such as the Anglo Jewish Association and the Dutch Jewish Committee, and considered non-representative. Wise, as well as Goldmann, both of them being concerned with the organization of the World Jewish Congress, also had obviously personal reasons for taking the coordinated boycott into their own hands, thus discrediting Untermyer…
In spite of the long-lasting personal quarrels among Wise, Goldmann and Chaim Weizman as top representatives of their organizations on one hand, and Untermyer as “ad hoc” boycott organizer on the other hand, the boycott became a fact. It had brought about a considerable isolation of Germany and extraordinary losses for the German export trade at a time when the world economic crisis caused more than 6 million jobless….
In late July, 1933, Reichsbank representatives approached London brokers for an “embarrassingly small” loan of 40 million marks (slightly more than 3 million pounds sterling)….
London refused, as did the U.S. Germany could not count on any financial aid from abroad. On August 6, Untermyer returned to New York from Amsterdam and greeted his compatriots in a continent-wide radio broadcast which was immediately arranged for him…
The end.
Just how thoroughly were Jews embedded in the German economy/culture?
According to Sir Arthur Bryant the British historian (Unfinished Victory (1940 pp. 136-144):
[…] even in November 1938, after five years of anti-Semitic legislation and persecution, they still owned, according to the Times correspondent in Berlin, something like a third of the real property in the Reich. Most of it came into their hands during the inflation… The banks, including the Reichsbank and the big private banks, were practically controlled by them. So were the publishing trade, the cinema, the theatres and a large part of the press – all the normal means, in fact, by which public opinion in a civilized country is formed.. The largest newspaper combine in the country with a daily circulation of four millions was a Jewish monopoly….
To cap it all, Jews were perceived as dangerous enemies of Germany after Samuel Untermeyer, the leader of the World Jewish Economic Federation, declared war on Germany on August 6 1933. (Edwin Black The Transfer Agreement: the Untold Story of the Secret Pact between the Third Reich and Palestine (1984) pp272-277) According to Black, ‘The one man who most embodied the potential death blow to Germany was Samuel Untermeyer.’ (p 369). This was the culmination of a worldwide boycott of German goods led by international Jewish organizations.The boycott was particularly motivated by the German imposition of the Nuremberg Laws, which ironically were similar in intent and content to the Jewish cultural exclusivism practiced so visibly in present-day Israel (Hannah Arendt Eichmann in Jerusalem p 7).
Hitler saw the tremendous danger posed to Germany by Communism. ….After all, according to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant, although Jews formed less than five percent of Russia’s population, they formed more than fifty percent of its revolutionaries. According to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant in his book The Jews (1977, chapter 8):
‘It must be added that most of the leading revolutionaries who convulsed Europe…stemmed from prosperous Jewish families… They were perhaps typified by the father of revolution, Karl Marx.. Thus when, after the chaos of World War I, revolutions broke out all over Europe, Jews were everywhere at the helm; Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev and Zinoviev in Russia, Bela Kun in Hungary, Kurt Eisner in Bavaria, and, most improbable of all, Rosa Luxemburg in Berlin.
‘To many outside observers, the Russian revolution looked like a Jewish conspiracy… The leadership of the Bolshevik Party had a preponderance of Jews.. Of the seven members of the Politburo, the inner cabinet of the country, four, Trotsky (Bronstein), Zinoviev (Radomsky), Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Sverdlov, were Jews.’
“There has been a tendency to circumvent or simply ignore the significant role of Jewish intellectuals in the German Communist Party, and thereby seriously neglect one of the genuine and objective reasons for increased anti-Semitism during and after World War 1.. The prominence of Jews in the revolution and early Weimar Republic is indisputable…led many Germans to distrust the Jewish minority as a whole and to brand Jews as enemies of the German nation.” (Sarah Gordon Hitler, Germans and the ‘Jewish Question’ Princeton University Press (1984) p 23).
Look, I have no great expertise on that one day Nazi boycott, but you’re just a total dummy. Do you have the slightest bit of evidence that a the Nazis ever put together a “comprehensive list of Jewish businesses” in Germany, which they then picketed and boycotted?
Several of the largest retain chains in Germany were Jewish-owned and that was universally known. Probably the Jewish ownership of many businesses were also known, and they were targeted as well. I’m extremely skeptical that the Nazis bothered tracking down every single Jewish-owned shop for their one-day protest.
I’ve never seen the films, but you bring to mind that notorious Colonel Blimp of the British Empire, inanely spouting off stupid absurdities to his fellow Club members. You’re so gullible I assume that you still believe Hamas beheaded forty Israeli babies because the MSM said so.
Mark Gobell wrote :
Corvnius replied :
In a similar vein, the Jewish newspaper Natscha Retsch wrote:
[…]
[…]
[…]
The Jewish Declaration of War on Nazi Germany
The Economic Boycott of 1933
Article from The Barnes Review, Jan./Feb. 2001, pp. 41-45.
By M. Raphael Johnson, Ph.D., assistant editor of TBR;
https://wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html
Mark Gobell wrote :
In reply, Corvinus claimed :
And yet …
Of course there is forensic evidence. You just don’t want to believe it.
https://evidenceroomfoundation.com/
“Ad hominim attacks are the final refuge of the out-argued scoundrel.”
Tell that to TipToe, not me.
Apparently, you haven’t looked hard enough. The Trotsky article you cite contains a similar passage, but Rezun-Suvorov apparently manufactured a distorted version of what Trotsky said and ignored the context which gave it a different meaning from what Suvorov implied:
Trotsky, “The Riddle of the USSR”, section “Hitler and the USSR”. In “Writings of Leon Trotsky (1938-1939)”, 2nd ed., 1974, p. 357.
https://archive.org/details/leon-trotskii-collected-writings-1938-1939/leon-trotskii-collected-writings-1929/
Although you’re obviously very diligent about locating Holocaust-related evidence on the Internet, I notice that you still haven’t managed to locate a single mainstream journalist or political figure who recognized the reality of the Holocaust during the 1950s, just a decade after it had allegedly occurred. Or if you have, I somehow missed it.
Everyone agrees that it was the greatest crime in the history of the world, but no one in the West seems to have admitted it actually happened during the period when memories were fresh. In fact, when Capt. Russell Grenfell, a leading British military expert, published Unconditional Hatred in 1953, he debunked all sorts of other lingering wartime propaganda about German villainy, but never even mentioned Jews or the Holocaust, probably because no one still believed in such nonsense. That’s why Beaty’s reference was so scanty and so fortuitous.
The difference is you resort to personal accusations/insults as an argument – “Have you no shame?” “You have no moral compass!” “You promote/condone the killing of children!” “Sickening!” “Brutal!” “Your [position/opinion] is morally repugnant!”
Or
Straw Man! (…crickets…) Counterfactual. (…crickets…) Confirmation bias. (…crickets…)…
Therefore, after considerable efforts/time/thousands of words in attempts to engage with you in any sort of intellectual discourse, and for my part, in consideration of our former discussions, wherein you argue/behave similarly, referring to you as a Useful Idiot, or suggesting you acquire dogs to defend your she-man, hysterical, self against hostile People, who will quickly spot you as an easy mark, is simply a statement of fact, and good advice.
I know that is irony or sarcasm but I would like to add my take on that which is that whatever the Nazi lad Germans did to the Jews because they were Jews (or regarded as such) was perhaps uniquely shocking because of what it showed about what could be hrought about in the best educated, post Enlightenment, rich country that rightly honoured Goethe, Schiller, Beethoven and a thousand other great artists and scholars. Now we see mad right wing Israelis and Putin propagandists on Russian state media sounding just as genocidal as Hitler’s mob so why would one be surprised if most of the things alleged about the Holocaust were true.
That said, I agree that your first par is well justified if you can’t be shown to have been unduly selective in your reading. If you have been then AI or even, if she changes her mind about debate, should be able to demonstrate that before long.
Not content with displaying your on-the-specttum people skills you show negligence or worse in failing to recognise that, if Patrick McNally is a paid shill who works from ADL briefing papers you should read him to get the benefit of the research that goes into the briefing papers. As it is you have made a fool of yourself despite all the clues my fairly accurate recollection had provided to you because you failed to read (or remember: that would be a worry!) McNally’s Comment #1060 in which appears
“While the issue of Untermeyer’s unsuccessful attempt to enforce a general boycott on Germany is brought up, it’s worth going back to Stephen Wise’s account of his correspondence with contacts in Germany.
—–
One letter from Berlin dated April 2 reached me … It added:
“Over here they have made the Jews and everyone else think that this boycott was only a retaliatory measure because of the action of the Jews in England and America and that nothing would have occurred otherwise. Lies–all lies. It was prepared months ago. I know! …
“They claim that all this was done in retaliation of what was done to Germany in foreign countries. Could any country in 48 hours have a complete list of every Jewish shop in Germany? This, mind you, included seamstresses, little shoemakers, tiny shops in basements that sell vegetables, and all this in the smallest hamlets and towns. You have no idea how this was organized to the nth degree. They had speakers in every factory throughout the country telling workmen and the masses that through a boycott instituted by the Jews against Germany they, the workmen, would be the ones to suffer and so they must help in rooting out these people and hitting them in their most vulnerable spot.
“Thank God that the other countries know and, despite what this country is preaching that the mass meetings of the Jews in England and America has reacted injuriously to the Jews in Germany, I tell you this is not so. No matter how much they suffered in humiliation and insult last Saturday it is not one-hundredth of what we are all convinced was REALLY planned… They were afraid now that the outside world knew to completely carry out what they had so systematically planned and organized …”
And again from a Berlin lawyer who sent this
message from Zurich:
“It was only foreign protests, especially that of America, which prevented even more happenings, a greater number of kidnappings and bloody beatings and possibly one big general pogrom.”
—–
— Challenging Years: The Autobiography of Stephen Wise, pp. 247-8.
Though it’s impossible to know what would have happened in an alternate history, the statements by Wise’s contacts are perfectly in line with what is known about Hitler’s methods. All accounts agree that in the early months after January 30, 1933, it seemed as if the SA Brownshirts were about to rampage across the whole country. Hitler personally is known to have followed a style where he would test the waters, sometimes by having lower ranking personnel run ahead of him, and then when he had measured the response, he would modulate things to a suitable temperature. In 1934, this involved the Night of the Long Knives which put the SA in line.
Most historians ascribe the Night of the Long Knives to complaints from the army about the SA, at a time when Hitler needed the army to prepare for eventual campaigns of expansion to the east. That’s valid as far as it goes. But it’s also very likely that, just as Wise’s contacts have suggested, the SA was probably getting ready in early 1933 to launch a national pogrom, a pogrom which was called off after people like Untermeyer began attempting to rally a boycott. Untermeyer was opposed in this by people like Cyrus Adler and the American Jewish Committee. But it’s quite plausible that he may have stopped an SA pogrom from happening in 1933.
Deborah Lipstadt got left out of the last sentence.
Our host said: Over the years and the decades, I’ve gradually come to the rueful conclusion that not a single word presented in mainstream sources regarding Jewish or Israeli issues can be assumed correct, and quite often represents the absolute inversion of reality.
Hunsdon replied: I might not add the qualifying phrase “regarding Jewish or Israeli issues” but that is a minor quibble. Then again, I might have added an emphasizing “especially” before “regarding Jewish or Israeli issues.”
Kindly explain the purpose of the Transfer Agreement made between the NS government of Germany and the Jews in Germany.
You are aware, I assume, that very similar “informants” from Europe later absolutely convinced Rabbi Stephen Wise that the Germans slaughtering enormous numbers of Jews and converting their bodies into soap and lampshades. According to Morgenthau’s voluminous diaries, Wise’s horrifying descriptions of those unspeakable atrocities—that everyone now admits were merely ridiculous propaganda-hoaxes—utterly transformed the Treasury Secretary’s views of the war and led him to support the extremely harsh Morgenthau Plan, that probably was responsible for the postwar deaths of at least several million innocent German civilians and would have killed perhaps 10 or 20 million if fully implemented.
That anonymous, obviously hysterical letter that Wise allegedly quoted has about as much credibility as the anonymous witnesses who saw those 40 beheaded Israeli babies, which I’m sure you still believe really happened.
The problem with you, Colonel Blimp, is that you’re merely an ignorant dummy…
Had a look at and read the reference you provided.
A replica built in accordance to someone’s fantasy does not constitute “Verifiable Forensic Evidence” The builder did not even have the honesty to replicate the colour of the walls of the supposed original.
A pathetic effort on your part.
Just imagine a court case where the prosecution asserts to the judge: “Well, gee, judge, we don’t have the original weapon, nor any authenticated photographs thereof, but here is a replica of what we believe it looked like. Please take our word for it that this is what was used to kill umpteen million of the chosen ones.
The judge would call the mental hospital for the men with the net, and the defence would make you look like the idiot you (the prosecution) are.
I have already I think made clear my understanding (almost entirely based on TUR) that it was, for Hitler,a way of ridding Ger.any of Jews, making money for Germany, and upsetting the Brits. How did you come to pose that question to me.
Militant Archives
The Riddle of the USSR
Author Leon Trotsky
Written 21 June 1939
[Writings of Leon Trotsky, Vol 11, 1938-1938, New York ²1974, p. 350-360]
And, Internet Archive
Full text of “Leon Trotsky – Collected Writings (1929-1940) 14 volumes”
[…] Hitler himself understood earlier than others the social significance of the Moscow purges and show trials, for to him, at any rate, it was no secret that neither Zinoviev, nor Kamenev, nor Rykov, nor Bukharin, nor Marshal Tukhachevsky, nor the dozens and hundreds of other revolutionaries, statesmen, diplomats, and generals were not his agents.
Hitler’s need to hypnotize Downing Street with the notion of a community of interests against the USSR has ceased too, for he has received from England more than he had hoped for-everything he could possibly receive without recourse to arms. If, nevertheless, he is not meeting the Kremlin halfway, this is evidently because he is afraid of the USSR. With its 170 million people, its inexhaustible natural resources, its undoubted achievements in industrialization, the increase in its means of communication, the USSR — so Hitler thinks — would immediately overrun Poland, Rumania, and the Baltic countries, and bring its entire mass up to the borders of Germany as soon as the Third Reich was involved in a struggle for the redivision of the world. In order to be able to grab the English and French colonies, Hitler must first secure his rear, and is meditating a preventive war against the USSR.
True, the German high command knows well, from past experience, the difficulties of occupying Russia or even just the Ukraine. However, Hitler counts on the instability of the Stalin regime. A few serious defeats for the Red Army, he thinks, will suffice to bring down the Kremlin government. And since there are no organized forces in the country, and the White emigres are quite alien to the people, after Stalin’s fall chaos will reign for a long time…..
In any case, it is precisely now, at the critical moment of the Anglo-Soviet talks, that Hitler is deciding which way to direct his aggression – East or West?
The end.
So, Bras Cubas chimes in to report that Suvorov seemed to have quoted Trotsky a bit out of context, which is true – but how was Trotsky able attribute to Hitler a possible/potential theory on Stalin’s future/ultimate objectives with such fortuitous precision in June of 1939? The Secret (Surprise) Pact was not yet made/known; “world war” was not yet declared; the Winter War was months away….the Baltic states were not yet occupied…it clearly seems Trotsky accurately predicted Stalin was maneuvering to encircle Germany whilst Hitler’s attention was in the West. Either way, Trotsky predicted/knew the Soviets would convene significant forces on the eastern front two full years before Operation Barbarossa, which was Suvorov’s point, yes? That the Soviets had, in fact, amassed offensive forces/equipment/installations along their western frontiers in anticipation of an opportunity to strike into Germany/Europe?
The Ooze a ‘Colonel Blimp’?? More like a ‘Corporal Party Balloon’ methinks.
What an irrelevant reply. You really are a poor loser. And not ashamed to suggest that a letter should be ignored because it was sent to someone who, a dozen years later apparently believed in and managed to persuade someone with the mentality of the young najve Ron Unz that some false horror stories were true. Desperate stuff. And made cringeworthy by you repetition of silly slanders with only your fevered imagination as source.
‘On the spectrum people skills.”??!! From our favourite ‘influencer’. Negative influencer that is. A true bellwether, ringing out his message, like a tintinnabulating Diogenes seeking an ‘honest’ man, and wondering where his goolies went. Trailing devoted converts like Glory as he goes.
Do you really think that no Jew in the USA was ever connected to organised crime? You need to read ‘One Country Under Blackmail’ by Whitney Webb. As in so many fields Jews excel in Mafia racketeering, blackmail (eg Epstein) and numerous nefarious activities eg sex trafficking, drug trafficking, pornography, human organ trafficking, military and surveillance equipment tested on the Palestinian lab rats, blood diamonds trafficking, cyber-crime such as the ‘binary options’ rackets etc. Busy as beavers you lot are.
Thanks.
A good complimentary book to Grenfell’s would be Roger Casement’s brilliant The Crime Against Europe in regards to WWI, though much of it would also be true of WWII as well. Though it was published in 1915 almost the whole of it’s contents were written well before the war had actually even started.
According to Casement the Great War was simply about the British Empire maintaining it’s global hegemony against a potential upstart…ie Germany.
That would not be a reason you could very well tell the world when it was supposed to be a war for democracy. Enter the atrocity propaganda:
‘We had to fight the war against them. They were demons in human form!’
I’ve posted some excerpts below ‘More’…
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/14728/14728-h/14728-h.htm
‘It might truly be said of the British Empire to-day that where two or three are gathered together, there hatred of Germany shall be in the midst of them.’
Do you really think that no Jew in the USA was ever connected to organised crime?
You must not read or comprehend well. I never said that there were no Jews involved in organized crime. What I said was that all ethnic groups contained criminals that were a part of organized crime. The Jews no more or less than others.
I specifically pointed out to Ron, which he for whatever reason refuses to accept responsibility for was the claim he made based on Russo’s book, that the Jews stole (looted) Japanese American land property. That is a lie.
That is a lie. The American government seized the Japanese land as part of Office of Alien Property Custodian
Many presidents appointed heads to this agency to sell the assets, The government got 80% of the money from the sale. The FBI investigated the seizure of Nikola Tesla’s patents and property by Leo Crowley, because Tesla was a US citizen.
After Crowley Bazelon a Jew became head of the Office.
End of story.
You are a crazy guy, and a liar Ron. Morgenthau never said the Germans made lampshades and soap from Jews. That never came from his diaries. The rest of this post is pure BS. The atrocity of gassing Jews is not a hoax. And most people do not think it is a hoax. Why conflate the gassing and murder of the Jews to the shop and lampshades which were exaggerations?? Why if not to obfuscate and pretend the two are the same exaggerations. Have you eve been on the website : https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com
That site will make you Ron look like the Hoax of the 21st and 22nd century. All the forensic evidence is listed succinctly against the specific forensics of the deniers.
And from your last post to me #1100: Well, you’d originally been shocked that anyone would make the crazy claim that Jewish people had anything to do with looting the Japanese. And I’ve now pointed out:
Again I am not sure if you are misconstruing the word looting. Looting is a criminal act. It is a euphemism or stealing.
The American government stole the property from the Japanese, not a Jewish criminal, as part of a land a government custodian bureau. The government received 80% of the profits. If Bazelon was recieving kick back from the sales of the assets of Japanese Americans to his friends, in exchange for kick backs and bribes. Then Bazelon was looting the US government not the Japanese.
Are you equally surprised that non Jews were involved in criminally looting from the American people and the US Government. Leo Crowley was under full FBI investigation. See below Leo Crowley.
Leo Crowley, the previous government custodian who set up the FDI, and embezzled assets,
Leo Thomas Crowley (August 15, 1889 – April 15, 1972) was a senior administrator for President Franklin D. Roosevelt as the head of the Foreign Economic Administration. Previously he had served as Alien Property Custodian and as chief of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Late in the 1930s, senior Washington officials discovered that Crowley had embezzled from his banks in Wisconsin in the 1920s and early 1930s. This information was suppressed twice because of Crowley’s political and administrative usefulness. Biographer Stuart Weiss wrote that Crowley’s story is:
the darker story of the businessman as speculator and embezzler, whose fraud was covered up in Wisconsin and Washington….[in part it is] the morally complex and compelling story of Crowley as a bureaucrat and politician in Washington, administering multiple major agencies, often simultaneously;…but also deeply involved in conflicts of interest a later generation would find unacceptable and even incomprehensible.[1]
I have a more cheerful information about the Jewish architect Luis Kahn, who designed tiger city, a majestic spiritual building that Kahn devoted the later part of his life to complete. It is called Tiger City, and is the government buildings of Bangladesh an impoverished country. Kahn started it before Bangladesh had independents from Pakistan. The buildings uplift lift the people, and they live in dignity from Kahn’s buildings. Listen to the Bangladesh citizen cry when he talks about what Kahn achieved. Truly majestic. Kahn died with his practice in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars, working for no money to complete his Bangladesh project for the people of that country.
The end of the Ted talk.
This is a trailer from a documentary that his son made about his father and Tiger City.
Fran Taubman, if you are the victim of a violent crime, say home invasion/robbery/assault, and you pepper your testimony with lies/exaggerations, you undermine your case and damage your credibility.
If an event is sufficiently horrific as it occurred, i.e., gassing, tossing living children into fires, homicidal steam rooms, gas vans, what then is the purpose of the lies/exaggerations? Why lie? Why were the falsehoods necessary?
“Survivors” were immediately shown video footage of camps, and many atrocities were implied/suggested; the entire narrative is based on rumor/innuendo and the mangling of truth – gas for delousing became gas for homicide – and because the myriad stories/accounts were then made-up on the fly, the tale crumbles under scientific analysis/close inspection/math, and therefore requires litigation to keep the house of cards from tumbling. It is not a coincidence that the primary “death” focus is on the Eastern European camps, for which there is the least amount of physical evidence due to lack of access by Western “liberators.”
In the real world, if you say your home invader arrived through the Floo Network, the case would likely be tossed.
The Holocaust is a journey via the Floo Network, Fran.
> he was simply another Osama bin Laden.
Bin Laden certainly had a significant array of followers. See:
Terry McDermott, Perfect Soldiers
Peter Bergen, The Osama bin Laden I Know
As for Untermeyer’s efforts:
https://www.academia.edu/37534305/British_Jewry_and_the_Attempted_Boycott_of_Nazi_Germany_1933_1939
—–
Abstract: The article deals with the boycott of Nazi Germany, which the British Jews attempted in the years 1933–1939. The main question is why the Jewish boycott in Britain culminated in the summer of 1933 and why it was followed by years of stagnation. … The first part focuses on the initial phase of the boycott (1933–1934) and emphasises the fact that the main organisation representing British Jews, The Board of Deputies of British Jews, refused to make the boycott official. The second part points out gradual stagnation and the boycott’s downturn in the years 1935–1939. Although the Berlin Olympics in 1936 would have been a great incentive for the movement, they were not boycotted in the end. Then the movement was further weakened by the British policy of appeasement.
—–
So, the effort was not as successful as Untermeyer would have hoped.
> In the same way that GB’s Declarations of War against Germany,
That’s ridiculous. Britain is a state. When the British government declared war, it was the declaration of the British state. Samuel Untermeyer had no such state apparatus at his command.
> It did grow into a rather large and effective international economic war against Germany.
No, it did not. It floundered after the initial wave of publicity.
https://www.academia.edu/37534305/British_Jewry_and_the_Attempted_Boycott_of_Nazi_Germany_1933_1939
—–
British Jewry and the Attempted Boycott of Nazi Germany, 1933–1939
Abstract: The article deals with the boycott of Nazi Germany, which the British Jews attempted in the years 1933–1939. The main question is why the Jewish boycott in Britain culminated in the summer of 1933 and why it was followed by years of stagnation. To what extent did the boycott movement have the chance to succeed is another key question as the main goal of the movement was nothing less significant than removing Hitler’s regime and thus preventing the war. The study is divided into three parts. The first part focuses on the initial phase of the boycott (1933–1934) and emphasises the fact that the main organisation representing British Jews, The Board of Deputies of British Jews, refused to make the boycott official. The second part points out gradual stagnation and the boycott’s downturn in the years 1935–1939. Although the Berlin Olympics in 1936 would have been a great incentive for the movement, they were not boycotted in the end. Then the movement was further weakened by the British policy of appeasement. The third phase of the study shows how the representatives of British Jewry attempted to influence the opinion of the government, especially the Foreign Office. Nevertheless, they failed in swinging political opinion towards the support of German Jews or the idea of a boycott. It became clear that the success of the boycott movement strongly depended on the official support; however, the mainstream political opinion preferred negotiations and agreement with Germany. The whole article is significantly based on yet unpublished sources from British and German archives.
—–
Franny,
exaggeration
noun
– A heaping together; accumulation; a pile or heap.
– An undue or excessive enlargement or development.
– Amplification; unreasonable or extravagant overstating or overdrawing in the representation of things; hyperbolical representation.
You said:
“Why conflate the gassing and murder of the Jews to the shop[sic] and lampshades which were exaggerations??”
So, are you suggesting that the National Socialists made a few bars of “shop” and a couple of lampshades and that the soap and lampshade reports were merely “unreasonable or extravagant overstating or overdrawing in the representation of things”? because that would be an exageration, whereas if Hitler and his bros never made any bars of soap or any lampshades then it wouldn’t be an exageration to say they did, it would be an utter lie and a libel.
In case you’re puzzled that everyone thinks that nearly everything you write is unmitigated bullshit then careful study of the above paragraph may help enlighten you. When you attempt to pass off a lie as simple exageration (which is only one example of how you try to distort people’s understanding in an attempt to sanitize the putrid reputation of your tribe) those who bother to read your disingenuous scribblings immediately see that you are full of shit.
> the stranglehold on Germany by Jewish interests was nearly absolute before the rise of NS,
Nonsense. The most anyone could rationally argue is that the Weimar Republic allowed more Jews to gain high profile positions than the traditional Right-wing was accustomed to from the days of the Hohenzollern monarchy.
> “There has been a tendency to circumvent or simply ignore the significant role of Jewish intellectuals in the German Communist Party,
A fake quote, misattributed to Sarah Gordon. Whatever the merits of her book, let’s at least try to keep quotes accurate:
—–
There has been a tendency to circumvent or simply ignore the significant role of Jewish intellectuals in the SPD and Communist Party (KPD)
—–
— P. 23.
I’m not aware of anyone ever trying to ignore the role of Jewish intellectuals in the SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany). As far as the KPD, it’s just a fact that this party did not have any outstanding percentages of Jewish members, either at the top or through the party as a whole.
—–
It was pointed out that there was not a single Jew on the central committee, and only one in the parliamentary party. The communist evening paper, Welt am Abend, invited Goebbels and Otto Strasser to write for its special discussion supplement.
—–
— Arthur Spencer, “National Bolshevism,” Survey: A Journal of Soviet and East European Studies, p. 145.
—–
While German Jews constituted a disproportionate percentage of the Weimar-era left and also of the anti-Nazi underground scene, the KPD’s Jewish membership was never very large. By some estimates there were approximately one thousand Jewish Communists in 1927 in a party of 140,000… This would be roughly proportionate to the Jewish population of Germany at that time.
—–
— John Cox, Circles of Resistance, pp. 74, 80.
As for the SPD, it should be recalled that not only were they the traditional popular party among organized labor in Germany, but that any loss of popularity which they suffered went mostly to the newly formed Communist Party. Another example of a misquote which you’ve given here is:
“The prominence of Jews in the revolution and early Weimar Republic is indisputable…led many Germans to distrust the Jewish minority as a whole and to brand Jews as enemies of the German nation.”
If we actually look at the book, not only are these phrases separated by an ellipsis separated by a whole paragraph, but the actual contents of that paragraph are very different from might be expected, e.g.:
—–
As mentioned, the total percentage of Jewish affiliation with the SPD was small… it was only with the overall collapse of the Middle in 1932 that the SPD succeeded in securing a majority of Jewish votes.
—–
— P. 24.
Those phrases are just part of a long paragraph which appears where Walendy has placed an ellipsis. Depending on hucksters like Walendy or Rezun for quotes means that you always end up with a mangled version.
The point I was trying to make is that the Transfer Agreement is completely at odds with the assertions of any holocost.
Germany was short of workers, the Transfer Agreement made money for Germany according to you.
So why murder workers and money in the bank???
One reason you’re so irritating is that you’re totally ignorant and also apparently maintain your ignorance by never bothering to read any of my articles, instead merely ranting in the comment-threads. For example, here’s a passage from one of my 2018 articles that I also recently excerpted and republished in another article just a couple of months ago:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-anti-semitism-a-century-ago/
https://www.unz.com/runz/war-crimes-and-atrocity-hoaxes-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/
You might want to check the Moreira book to confirm that I’m quoting him correctly.
I was apparently thrown off by the absence of an ellipsis. Now that you’ve given a fuller quote, yes, I found the relevant thing on page 357. It is clearly very different from what Rezun states, but there is a passage there. I probably got to the words “so Hitler thinks” and then stopped scanning further, since these words do not appear in Rezun.
> how was Trotsky able attribute to Hitler
Whatever strengths and weaknesses one may find in Trotsky’s assessment of Hitler’s thinking, it is about Hitler. It is not about what Stalin would or would not do. More specifically, it does not involve any claims that Stalin was going to attempt to launch a revolutionary crusade with an invasion of Europe, as Rezun claims. The overall description which Trotsky gives of Stalin is of someone who does not feel prepared for war as of yet. But Hitler is prepared and ready to go. Yet, Hitler is wary that he needs to make sure that Stalin does not strengthen his position in the east while Hitler becomes entangled in the west. Those are the profiles which he draws. Nothing of this comes close to Rezun’s claim that a Soviet invasion of western and central Europe was on the agenda anytime soon.
… but it appears it was more successful than the Germans would have hoped.
Excerpt from Wiki’s 1933 anti-Nazi boycott:
That is interesting.
Within the Anglosphere I know right off the top of my head of three major motion pictures released between 1929-1936 (though there were almost assuredly others besides) which had it that a future world war would be taking place by the specific year of 1940.
Two of these, ie Men Must Fight (1933) and Things to Come (1936), make it plain that Germany is to be a major future enemy. High Treason (1929) does not specify other than the enemy broadly is to be Europe.
And for anyone who might be wondering, yes, all three of the executive producers of these respective films, ie Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Alexander Korda, and Isadore Ostrer of Gaumont British, were Jewish.
> … but it appears it was more successful than the Germans would have hoped.
Which is sort of axiomatic.
But that gets far afield from the original claim by some on this board that somehow the attempts to start a boycott in 1933 are very relevant for understanding the determined efforts at ‘evacuation to the east’ which were launched in the wake of Barbarossa. They are not.
I maintain that this paragraph you quote like you heard the conversation is a lie. The problem with you is that you would write anything. You are correct I have not read your articles. But the story of the lampshades and soap are exaggerations claimed well after the war, not something Stephen Wise was told or passed on to Morgenthau because the lampshades and soap were not in the “atrocities” lexicon during the war.
A review of the book: https://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/book/the-jew-who-defeated-hitler-henry-morgenthau-jr-fdr-and-how-we-won-the-war
That being said, the title The Jew Who Defeated Hitler does seem like an overreach. Morgenthau is certainly praiseworthy, but the author clearly does not care much for FDR, whose economic policies and his leadership are assailed in the book, and thus seems eager to overextend credit to the Treasury Secretary. It’s a flaw that occasionally diminishes the book, which is unfortunate, because otherwise this is a finely researched and informative work on a man underrated by historians.
There are many other reviews that say Moreras book is an exaggeration if not all out myth. You cannot seriously think a quote like Moreara wrote and that you cite, not from a direct transcript from a supposed conversation can be considered factual.
I maintain that until you locate another source for the conversation that Wise had with Morgenthau is to be considered anything but gossip, which BTW is 90% of what you write. Like Covid was an American bio warfare weapon. That The Jews killed Kennedy, that the Jews did 9/11. All gossip.
The word exaggeration can be used in a way that renders the accusation to be false. The rumors concerning the lampshades and soap were part of a true story which was the murder by gassing and shooting of the Jews, in occupied German countries in an attempt to eradicate European Jewry. The soap and lampshades is an exaggeration of part of the story. Not the complete story.
What is a lie is your implication that Jewish gangsters stole and looted Japanese American lands. That is not an exaggeration. It is a lie.
You are too stoned to know the difference.
I think you are ‘exaggerating’, Franny. 😉
Is it? I’ll get back to you on that, Pretzel. But, see below for a few first-hand nuggets that indicate the correctness of my supposition.
Fake, such as the one attributed to Trotsky that I managed to whirl?
Fake implies that she did not write/say it. Was that the case?
Yes, let’s – give this one a whirl:
“After June, 1943, the gas chamber was reserved exclusively for Jews and Gypsies.. Three hundred and sixty corpses every half-hour, which was all the time it took to reduce human flesh to ashes, made 720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per twenty-four hour shift. And the ovens….functioned day and night. However, one must also reckon the death pits, which could destroy another 8,000 cadavers a day. In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled each day…..”
Can you source it for me, Pretzel, and confirm its accuracy? Or its authenticity?
The Jewish nuggets:
Max Eisen – my father lost his businesses; my mother lost her “helper,” Anna.
Paula Lebovics – My grandfather was well to do, and he built himself a big building… and in the courtyard, he built houses for each one of the children….we were considered, uh, sort of, well-to-do because of my grandfather, the whole family worked for my grandfather…
Baruch Bergman – we were so poor, but my mother‘s family was well-to-do, but we were very poor, somehow, we managed to hire a cook for my mother, a cleaner for our house, a gardener, but we were so poor… My father sold goods, confiscated from Jews by the Germans, to the white Russians….
Henia Bryer – my father was wealthy; we had servants; we vacationed for two months abroad every summer; we had a happy life…
Agi Day – My grandfather owned a shoe factory; When the Nazis occupied our home, my mother persuaded them to allow us to live in the maids’ quarters; after living with the Russians, in the countryside, my father established himself in Vienna after the war; my father’s chauffeur drove me around, and we dined at our favorite restaurant every evening…
Renata Skotnicka – my mother was a department store heiress; my father was a lawyer; I had a live-in nanny; we had multiple homes; my mother‘s family bought land in Palestine….
Irene Weiss – my father owned a lumberyard; I recall closing the gate to the entrance of our home property…
Ruth Grunwald – my father had a textile business; we had a very comfortable, secure, life in Germany until 1938; my grandmother had a lot of money…
Just like the so-called Holocaust – a mangled version of what actually occurred.
Look, Moreiri is a respectable, mainstream author who wrote his Morgenthau book based upon a great deal of archival research at the FDR Library. The factual statements he reports must be accepted as correct unless strong evidence can be found to the contrary.
The reviewer you quote never challenged any of those statements but merely argued that Moreiri may have exaggerated the central importance of his subject: “…the title The Jew Who Defeated Hitler does seem like an overreach.” This seems a very reasonable criticism, while he does on to also say: “this is a finely researched and informative work on a man underrated by historians.”
Meanwhile, you’re merely a total ignoramus, who spends her time on the comment-threads of this website ranting and raving about Jews without apparently reading any of the associated articles.
People linked the international economic boycott launched by Organized Jewry against Germany to the rationale for Lebensraum?
I must’ve missed this… care to provide a couple of examples (via comment #s)?
See also :
The Jewish Mafia – The Great International Predators
by Herve Ryssen
I have read all the articles I comment on except yours, which I skim because they are too long, and I get the idea. Read one read them all. You used threads to weave rugs.
You missed my main point, the vital point which is the lampshades and soap claims were not made till well after the war, it was not part of the German-Jewish atrocities lexicon during the war.
Lampshades out of human skin was not what people discussed. They discussed gassing, and shooting. I have heard many discussions and seen many articles on Morgenthau and Wise, and I have never heard any context where Wise was telling Morgenthau about soap and lampshades. It just seems like gossip, and quoting a conversation without showing the original text is just gossip.
Find me any reference by any Partisan or escaped Jew, during the war warning the US that the Germans were making lampshades and soap from dead Jews. It was not discussed, by escaped Partisans.
I am not going to read your Gaza conflict and atrocities article. Everything you have written so far about Israel is a provable lie. The land was not stolen it was purchased. I am not going thru that article and argue about lies.
I jumped in because you accused Jewish gangsters of stealing and looting Japanese land, which is still a lie.
After the war: After the war: After the war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampshades_made_from_human_skin
I stated that Untermeyer was a non state actor. Did you miss that?
This figures seem fairly impressive and certainly align with the German view of the seriousness of the boycott.
Quite why you choose an article about the position of British Jewry to support your claim of an ineffective boycott, is a mystery …
“Although you’re obviously very diligent about locating Holocaust-related evidence on the Internet”
Well-documented, conclusive evidence.
“I notice that you still haven’t managed to locate a single mainstream journalist or political figure who recognized the reality of the Holocaust during the 1950s, just a decade after it had allegedly occurred.”
We have already covered this ground. Professor Jackson articulated in great detail how and why there was scant attention to this event. Following the Allied victory, the murder of European Jews was widely subsumed under the generic category of war crimes/casualties. Now, if Americans neglected to understand the background/impact of Holocaust in the 1950’s compared to today, it does NOT mean that the event was manufactured as you seem to imply. Rather, extensive discourse regarding the Allied war crimes trials, the impact of Cold War anticommunism, a historical interest in the Third Reich, detailed eyewitness accounts of Nazi atrocities, postwar philosophical debates, and efforts to combat antisemitism were potent forces in the decades following WW2 led to exhaustive investigation into the Holocaust.
“Everyone agrees that it was the greatest crime in the history of the world”
According to Who/Whom?–Steve Sailer
“Capt. Russell Grenfell, a leading British military expert, published Unconditional Hatred in 1953, he debunked all sorts of other lingering wartime propaganda about German villainy,”
General Eisenhower said differently in 1945.
“but never even mentioned Jews or the Holocaust, probably because no one still believed in such nonsense.”
Professor Jackson again covers this ground as to why people like Grenfel and Beaty failed to address this topic. I suggest you read his work again.
“A replica built in accordance to someone’s fantasy…”
Blatant lie on your part. Architectural historian Robert Jan van Pelt, an expert witness at the trial, adduced a vast trove of documents, including blueprints and construction orders drafted during World War II, that were unaffected by the passage of time or trauma.
“The difference is you resort to personal accusations/insults as an argument – “Have you no shame?” “You have no moral compass!” “You promote/condone the killing of children!” “Sickening!” “Brutal!” “Your [position/opinion] is morally repugnant!”
My truth cuts you do the bone. People, who will quickly spot you as an easy mark, is simply a statement of fact, and good advice.
Unfortunately I’ve noticed over the years there seems to an almost exact inverse-correlation between reading your articles in full and the likelyhood of posting in their respective comment sections.
No he didn’t, and I suspect that unlike myself, you haven’t actually read Prof. Jackson’s fine article. Why don’t you quote me the passages that support your case?
Jackson casually dismissed Capt. Grenfell as a “fascist” but I’m rather skeptical of that claim. Grenfell helped direct the Royal Navy Staff College, published six highly-regarded books on naval strategy, and served as the Naval Correspondent of the prestigious Daily Telegraph. As an officer, he was involved in the D-Day landings, and his lengthy 1954 obituary in the Times of London seems to raise absolutely no ideological doubts about him:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190308142219/http://www.grenfellhistory.co.uk/biographies/russell_grenfell.php
There’s sometimes a tendency to claim that everyone you disagree with must be a “fascist” or maybe a “communist” but that’s a foolish way to argue.
You seem level headed so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here. You are right about Ron’s articles, but hey it is his website and he is putting in the work, so. They really are long. But are they wrong?
The fact that rumor X wasn’t in the lexicon of the average person, “soldiers”, “partisans”, …, in no way informs the question of whether some rabbi with a mission would or would not mention such matter in an attempt to turn the US treasurer into an asset.
Here is very plausible explanation for your conflating two completely distinct matters: A: use of “exaggerated” propaganda in a conversation between two power players. B: use of the same “exaggeration” at a much later date, when the holocaust PR began in earnest.
The rabbi was trying all sorts of crazy LIES to the US official. The poor guy is saying “please stop” but rabbi pushes on. Maybe the said rabbi invented the lies right on the spot there and then! Ever thought about that?
Years later, when the PR campaign is about to start in earnest, word gets around about the outrageous lies that made that poor US treasurer become a mindless asset for non US interests. Was the rabbi still around when Joe Public was introduced to the concept of Germans doing unspeakable things to Jews? Maybe he said “use this stuff. I totally fucked with Harry’s head with this shit”.
Your truth? Well, it’s certainly much different from the Truth. And, Corvinus….not even on your best day.
Which people? The MolochPeople, or the GeorgeFloydPeople, or the CorvinusLaPerePeople?
An easy mark, am I?
So, I’m rather familiar with both your writing and your intellect, so I detected a few red flags within your main paragraph in post #1165, so I did a bit of critical searching, which you can not/do not do, so what do you think I found?
The Holocaust and American Public Memory, 1945-1960
Lawrence Baron
San Diego State University
[…] Despite disagreements over what sparked the 1960s and 1970s interest in the Holocaust, scholars seem to agree upon why the memory of the Jewish catastrophe was either forgotten or repressed between the end of World War II and the Eichmann trial. [End Page 62] Following Allied victory, the destruction of European Jewry was widely subsumed under the generic category of war casualties and crimes. The mushroom clouds over Hiroshima and Nagasaki appeared to many as ominous as the smoke rising from the crematoria of Auschwitz. In the postwar period, American Jewry still sought integration into the melting pot and shied away from drawing attention to the “special treatment” meted out to the Jews by the Third Reich. As the Cold War evolved, the Soviet Union replaced Germany as the archenemy of the United States…..
Tsk, tsk….the truth is out there if you know where/how to look…in the interest of time, I stopped sleuthing after this first discovery, but I suspect you plagiarized the entire statement/spiel, and today, as yesterday, you have discerned nothing for yourself, and you rely wholly on empty platitudes, virtue signaling, mainstream opinions/history, to determine/voice your vapid, self-righteous, worldview, which is why you remain utterly clueless despite the volumes of good information widely available, much of which is on this very site, yet you seem completely oblivious to it. I do not understand you. So, by all means stick to History with Spielberg – 101, and The LittleBlack Mermaid, and good luck with the African/Mexican refugees, whom I’m sure you have invited to bunk in your spare room…
General Eisenhower also killed hundreds of thousands of Germans after the war; why don’t you learn what General Patton said differently in 1945?
General Eisenhower was a war criminal, and you are a Useful Idiot, like Eisenhower, SLBFDR/WC.
Hmmm. There used to be a lot of quoting of CODOH on TUR. But I have never got the impression that our host Ron was willing to treat ot as a trustworthy source. I can’t off the top of my head say that he has ever quoted it. Can someone direct me to an impartial assessment of it?
I agree with your reply except that I have no belief that Bazelon and Jewish mates were guilty or innocent. Certainly your logic is better than hers.
I obviously don’t know who you are, but I think you’re being extremely unfair to Rabbi Wise. There’s not the slightest evidence that he wasn’t being 100% truthful and sincerely believed all those claims about Jews being turned into soap and lampshades. From what I’ve read, the former stories were endemic among European Jews throughout the entire war.
Indeed, in the immediate postwar period, the US government officially endorsed the soap and lampshades stories, which were reported in all the media and (I think) were displayed as physical proof of Nazi atrocities during the various war-crimes trials. One of the top generals—maybe Eisenhower—even arranged a filmed public display of the human soap, lampshades, and even shrunken heads outside one of the Nazi concentration camps. As far as I know, almost everyone in America believed the soap and lampshades stories were absolutely true for years. Israel was filled with camp survivors, and according to Segev’s book, the entire population 100% believed in the soap stories for decades, including top government leaders.
So why would you be so sure that an excitable activist like Wise would assume those stories were lies a couple of years earlier?
You seem just as uninformed on the details of the Holocaust as that ignorant Taubman woman.
I get the impression that you have won an argument which had Ron believing that someone raised the human skin fantasies/falsehoods with Morgenthau during the war when, in fact, those rumours all arose only after the war.
Oops! Ron’s latest seems to give reason for acceptimg an earlier date for the false rumours if he is to be believed.
When you look around the world and ocer the course of human history why would you not expect some ghoulish SS wofe or female (pr trans or….) guard to do something like shrink skulls or presrrve tattooed skin?
Your Wise-Morgenthau display provides an example of exacerbated Jewish psychoses and of how these two psychos are able to boost each other up in a self-hypnosis for the purpose of victimization.
All comparable to a murderer who, in a panic of fear of exposure, turns to victimization. “He survived”, as your self “quotes” above: “Israel was filled with camp survivors…” while their own pop stats showed a higher Jewish world population than before their Second War on the world.
So, you seem rather uninformed about Jewish psychoses – Judaism is Satanism – and the Jews’ hypnotic capacities for themselves and against the other.
That is emphatically a yes. The author of the book on Morgenthau cited a conversation. A detailed conversation. How do you back up the accuracy of a non transcribed conversation without support of a group hearing the conversation. So the entire dialogue is ridiculous.
You are correct the lampshades and soap were started well after the war. No one could imagine gassing never mind human lampshades and soap. During the war, it was escapees and Partisans (from the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising) sending information to Britain and the US thatEurope to understand the Jews had lost all legal rights, were stripped of their citizenship and ghettoized and then transported for murder. That was the information being told to Morgenthau and Roosevelt. Period end of story.
Oh please. No one ever heard of human lampshades and human soap, during the war. Period end of story. And how do you transcribe a conversation like that. “please stop”. Where did the writer get that from? A tape recorder. One person. He had access to Morgenthaus archives. I have found absolutely zero corroborating evidence to back that up. You would have thought human lampshades and human soap would have been the gossip of everyone.
The Rabbi got a telegram stating that Jews were being transported to death camps. That was the alert, no one knew about.
Those rumors were not started by survivors or Holocaust historians.
It appears that the charge of “blood libel” against the Germans has an historical precedent, the charge of “blood libel” against the Greeks.
Telegram comment posted by Eric Striker:
Re: US awareness of soap factory rumours :
Holocaust Handbooks : Volume 28 :
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=28
The “Operation Reinhardt” Camps Treblinka, Sobibór, Bełżec
Black Propaganda, Archeological Research, Expected Material Evidence
by Carlo Mattogno
https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/28-torc.pdf
pp. 54-55
1.4. The “Soap Factory Using Human Fat” at Bełżec
Even before the Second World War had ended, the legend of a factory established at Bełżec for the manufacture of soap from the corpses of the allegedly exterminated Jews was being circulated.
A report sent on August 30, 1942 by the Geneva Office of the Jewish Agency for Palestine to the US government and forwarded by the latter to the Holy See on September 26, 1942, contains the first germs of this legend (Foreign Relations…, p. 775):
“Liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto is taking place. Without any distinction all Jews, irrespective of age or sex, are being removed from the Ghetto in groups and shot. Their corpses are utilized for making fats and their bones for the manufacture of fertilizer.
Corpses are even being exhumed for these purposes. These mass executions take place, not in Warsaw, but in especially prepared camps for the purpose, one of which is stated to be in Belzek [sic39].”
I see. That’s why the replica was painted white and was made partially of plastic.
I repeat, try your line of argument in an impartial court of law.
Thanks for the helpful date reference, which was very much what I’d remembered from my casual reading. So the earliest claims that Jewish bodies were being rendered into soap was reported by the Jewish Agency to the US government in August 1942 and also forwarded to the Vatican the following month. This seems absolutely consistent with Rabbi Wise then making that emphatic claim to Morgenthau in their private conversation several months later.
As usual, Taubman is a total ignoramus and I think she based her entire argument to the contrary on an ambiguous sentence in Wikipedia or some other website somewhere.
Frankly, since Taubman seems to have the IQ of a bar of soap, I think that would probably be the best use of her current body-parts.
You are welcome.
Cited source : Foreign Relations of the United States, 1942, Bd. III. United States Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., 1961.
Actual source : Foreign Relations of the United States: Diplomatic Papers, 1942, Europe, Volume III
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1942v03
Vatican: (Documents 655–691)
Efforts by the United States and other governments to have the Pope protest publicly against Nazi atrocities in German-occupied areas (Documents 655–662)
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1942v03/ch26
[660] The President’s Personal Representative to Pope Pius XII (Taylor) to the Cardinal Secretary of State (Maglione)
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1942v03/d660
Vatican City, September 26, 1942.
My Dear Cardinal Maglione: I have the honor to bring to the attention of Your Eminence the following memorandum which has been received from my Government:
“The following was received from the Geneva Office of the Jewish Agency for Palestine in a letter dated August 30th, 1942. That office received the report from two reliable eye-witnesses (Aryans), one of whom came on August 14th from Poland.
“(1) Liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto is taking place. Without any distinction all Jews, irrespective of age or sex, are being removed from the Ghetto in groups and shot. Their corpses are utilized for making fats and their bones for the manufacture of fertilizer. Corpses are even being exhumed for these purposes.
“(2) These mass executions take place, not in Warsaw, but in especially prepared camps for the purpose, one of which is stated to be in Belzek. […]
You’re at it again, Franny, ‘exaggerating”. The soap/lampshades bollocks was trotted out in JewWar 1 and, as even Wikimisleadia admits, during and after JewWar 2. You could’a looked up Wiki yourself and saved yourself from confirming, yet again, that you’ve no idea except for the bullshit you’ve been brought up on.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_made_from_human_corpses
Thanks for bringing Prof. Baron’s 2003 article to my attention, which I’ve now carefully read.
Baron is attempting to challenge the conventional wisdom that there was almost no discussion of the Holocaust between 1946 and the beginning of the 1960s, and goes over the literature with an extremely fine-tooth-comb, but seems to find little or nothing in mainstream historical sources.
For example, the Reitlinger and Poliakov books were both “imports” in 1953-54, had low sales in America, and were never reviewed or discussed in any mainstream or historical publication. In fact, the heaviest coverage of these works ran in Commentary, the magazine of the American Jewish Committee. Indeed, except for a few scattered Jewish writers or reviewers, here and there, there seems almost nothing.
Interestingly enough, this was in very sharp contrast to the heavy mainstream coverage of the Holocaust during 1945-46, in association with the Nuremberg trials.
I think the most plausible explanation for this huge discrepancy is that by the late 1940s, more and more mainstream journalists and historians had begun to recognize that the Holocaust had just been ridiculous wartime propaganda, an embarrassing episode of hysteria best forgotten, much like the shrunken heads and human lampshades. But since the government and our media outlets never officially retracted the hoax, it remained dormant, still believed by many Jews and then was revived a dozen or so years later.
So the direct attacks on Jewish businesses by the German SA celebrating Hitler’s appointment into office throughout January, February leading into March resulting in this eventual non-event of a boycott was according to Ron, “unprovoked.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8JFv3wP49M
“Continued anti-Semitism in Germany is likely to react seriously against her. A move is on foot on the part of Jewish financiers to exert pressure to force anti-Jewish action to stop.” — The Daily Express, “Judea Declares War On Germany” (March 24, 1933), p. 2
No one who cites such rag have ever bothered to even source and read this 2-page article.
I stand corrected on the soap. Thanks for showing the link. But that was not the thrust of Wise’s claims to Morgenthau w yabout lampshades made of Jewish skin. Find me a source that shows that rumors of lampshades made of Jewish skin was being discussed during the war. I have checked.
It does not change my mind that conversation between Wise and Morgenthau never took place, as described by Moreira in his book. It makes no sense, and I have never heard Wise claim those atrocities ever took place. Impossible to record a conversation between those two people. None was made. Who is the person that described the conversation? It is patently stupid. Wise’s primary focus was receiving a telegram in 1942 that the Jews were being transported to death camps, being gassed and cremated. That is what blew is mind up, and the minds of everyone who heard it.
This was the quote:
Morgenthau knew of the millions of deaths and the lampshades made from victims’ skin, and he asked Wise not to go into excessive details
Find me a source that says that that was discussed during the war. You can believe what you want to believe. This is an opinion page. The sources that Gobell cites are from major Holocaust deniers, who have been thoroughly discredited.
Excerpt from The Soap Myth: A Holocaust artifact in a post-truth era:
Well, Dr. Wise was privy to quite a bit of information apparently unknown to Allied military intelligence. I suppose the question is, did he believe it? Maybe he wanted to believe it?
In any event, the genesis of the later accusations/statements made by many “eyewitnesses” can be seen in this story:
Marion Progress, Marion, North Carolina, December 3, 1942
SAYS NAZI PLANNING EXTERMINATION OF JEWS
Dr. Stephen S. Wise, chairman of the world Jewish congress, says that he had learned through sources confirmed by the state department that approximately half the estimated 4,000,000 Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe had been slain in an “extermination campaign.”
Dr. Wise, who also is president of the American Jewish Congress, and chairman of a committee composed of representatives of leading Jewish organizations in America, said these sources also disclosed:
1. That Hitler has ordered the extermination of all Jews in Nazi-ruled Europe in 1942.
2. That the Jewish population of Warsaw, Poland, already has been reduced from 500,000 to about 100,000 Jews.
3. That when chief Nazi speak of “exterminating” Jews in Poland, they speak of “four-fifths of the Jewish population in Hitler-ruled Europe,” since that percentage either now is in Poland or en route there under a Nazi grouping plan.
4. That Nazi have established a price of 50 reichsmarks for each corpse – mostly Jewish, Dr. Wise indicated – and are reclaiming bodies of slain civilians to be “ Processed into such war-vital commodities as soap fats and fertilizer.”
“He (Hitler) is even exhuming the dead for the value of the corpses,” Dr. Wise said during a press conference shortly after he had conferred with state department officials.
He stressed the fact that most of his information came from various sources other than the state department, but said those sources had been confirmed as authentic by the department.
That does not appear to be what Dr. Wise was focusing on in 1942. Either way, he’s clearly poking his snout into the atrocity propaganda/rumor/Germans-are-devils war machine, and he claimed there is/was definitive proof, and if that were true in 1942, it should’ve been true in 1945. What sort of strange shame-virus set upon Jews, who were singing like canaries in 1942, to make them clam-up in 1945?
The Daily Monitor Leader November 25, 1942
HEAR DETAILS OF HITLER’S CAMPAIGN FOR:
Slaughter of all European Jews, by End of the Year
Washington, November 25 (AP)
Details of a campaign to exterminate all Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe by the end of the year are to be laid before a committee of leading Jewish organizations today in New York.
The story – reportedly confirmed by the state department, and a personal representative of President Roosevelt – deals with how more than 2,000,000 Jews already have been slaughtered in accordance with a race extinction order by Adolf Hitler.
Before leaving for New York to address the committee this afternoon, Dr. Stephen S. Wise… said he carried official documentary proof that “Hitler has ordered the extermination of all Jews in Nazi ruled Europe in 1942.”
After a consultation with state department officials, he announced they had termed authentic certain sources, which revealed that approximately half of the estimated 4,000,000 Jews in Nazi occupied Europe already had been killed, and that Hitler was wrathful at “failure to complete the extermination immediately.”
To speed the slaughter of the other half during the remaining month before the edict deadline, Dr. Wise said,….Nazi doctors were killing them at the rate of “more than 100 men an hour, per doctor,” by injecting air bubbles into their veins – “ the simplest and cheapest method” they could find.
[…] in addition to the state department, which he said had provided the documentary proof of previous rumors and reports, the chairman said a “representative of President Roosevelt, recently returned from Europe,” had confirmed other stories, and told him that “the worst you thought is true.”
Whether details of the gruesome campaign will be revealed publicly, will be decided by the committee, Dr. Wise, said, adding that any contemplated action will be announced after today’s meeting.
The end.
Why wouldn’t the gruesome details of such a campaign be revealed, with the remaining half of European Jewry in the Nazi crosshairs……or were they?
The passage that cited in your post that describe the atrocities with the injection of bubbles, was not written by a hysterical Jew, or gossip, or made up by Wise and other Jews. It was written by a famous Harvard educated war journalist named Varian Fry who was not Jewish and whose articles are very well respected. This article called The Massacre of the Jews written for the New Republic is considered one of the first accounts of the atrocities. Fry was in Europe. This is where Wise got his information from. Unfortunately no lampshades with tattoos.
Varian Fry, who was stationed in Marseille in 1941:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varian_Fry#:~:text=Fry%2C%20Varian.,Massacre%20of%20Jews%20in%20Europe%22.
Fry wrote one of the early accounts of the German atrocities from Europe, which not many people knew about. He wrote for the New Republic in December of 1942 an article called.
Both of these links work, but the article is longer in one then the other, maybe an excerpt.
Fry’s article in the New Republic is the source for the Newspaper articles.
They’d have to be bad to be worse than the Spaniards, English and Americans. The West’s basic modus operandi is loot, because, flowing from Judaic delusions of universal supremacism, inherited by the West, non-Westerners are untermenschen, ‘useless eaters’, ‘savages’ etc. The wealth of the world belongs to the elite of the West, by Divine Dispensation.
One of your rhetorical devices, so ubiquitous among Jewish apologists, is to speak always of ‘the Jews’ as if you are one great, undifferentiated, mass. Thus the condemnation of Jewish crooks, like Bazelon and his mates, becomes a libel against all Jews. Hence it is not unmerited to believe that you are, thus, inferring universal innocence for Jews.
We see that tendency today with the horrific, and bizarre, assertion that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza. In every facet of the Genocide Treaty definition, it is genocide. Numerous legal and diplomatic groups have stated as much, yet the Zionazis and their stooges screech that it is a ‘blood libel’, as they slaughter another thousand children.
Obviously they believe, or simply assert for propaganda purposes, that Jews cannot commit genocide, simply because they are Jews, and the facts be damned. And they pursue, libel, intimidate and punish any who dare state the obvious. And as well, they invent mythical, ‘virtual’ genocides of the Jews, by means such as declaring that a call for ‘intifada’ means, quite literally, a desire to exterminate Jews everywhere, so far more attention is given to an utter invention, than to bloody, hideous, reality. The narcissistic hysteria is profound, but familiar.
As for Jews in US organised crime-they were massively over-represented. They dominated organised crime in the Soviet as well, and became the greatest ‘oligarch’ pillagers under Yeltsin. That was, of course, denied for a long time, then boasted of as ‘Jewish acumen’, the result, naturally, of ‘Soviet antisemitism’.
Be proud, Fran-many of your tribal fellows have a real gift for larceny, blackmail, murder and exploitation. Not all by any means. Many Jews live quiet lives, others are opposed or indifferent to avaricious acquisitiveness, many are socialists, some are anarchists. A mixed lot, but the worst of your tribe, the ones running amok in Gaza, are dead-set Evil swine. If you could simply admit that, I’d have some respect for your opinions.
Wise, born in 1874 and brought to the United States as an infant, is another of the Allied leaders who almost certainly would have heard as a young man the post Civil War atrocity stories about the South’s Union POW ‘camps’, ie the ‘cattle cars’, the ‘poisonous injections’, the deliberate enmasse starvation, and camp commandant(s) who gun prisoners down for sport. [And while they didn’t use the term ‘death camp’ to describe these camps, they had it’s equivelant, ie ‘slaughter-pen’, the 19th century term for ‘slaughter house’…a place specifically designed so that living beings enter, and that none leave alive.]
The genesis for the false stories about planned mass murder at Auschwitz can be found in the false stories of planned mass murder (now, albeit quietly, generally acknowledged to be untrue) at the South’s Andersonville.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1870/10/our-israelitish-brethren/306257/
‘Of the giant wrongs to which they [the Jewish people] have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded.’
If you were fighting a desperate total war and some industrislist and their scientists told you that under appropriate circumstances human bodies could be used economically to produce scarce soap and fertiliser, would you, as one of the leaders or apparatchiks responsible for killimg the disabled, have any reservations about acceting their advice? Of course not. So sensible people would look for evidence that there was an underlying reality whic helped get the ghoilish horror stories off the ground.
See my #1495. which seeks to distinguish the inherently quite plausible turning of bodies into soap and feriliser from ghoulish exaggerations about perverted activity. which at most was worth a footnote about what sick human beings could get up to in time of war. Even including Soviet POWs the fertiler from bones business would have been more prospectively profitable than soap from fat!
Fran Taubman wrote :
and this :
and this :
and this :
In an effort to disabuse Fran Taubman et al, of their unsupported claim about the “Jews into soap” lie, in the so-called “Holocaust narrative”, being a post-war lie, rather than a lie made during the war, to support their claim that Morgenthau could therefore not have been aware of the “Jews into soap” lie in November 1942, :
I posted this :
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-6348490
Which is a citation from a book written by someone who represents a body of historical opinion which Fran Taubman does not like, which proves that the US government were aware of the “Jews into soap / fat” lie in August 1942, having been informed of the “Jews into soap / fat” lie by none other than the Geneva Office of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.
and in a following post, I posted this :
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-nakba-and-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-6348583
Which are links to the source documents cited in the book, located at the US Department of State, Office of the Historian.
In a reply to another poster, not me, Fran Taubman wrote :
At least Fran Taubman has the good grace to acknowledge their mishteak.
but in the same post, also wrote :
I have no wish to enter into a dialogue with Fran Taubman.
Fran Taubman wrote :
Unfortunately, the following was omitted from the same document :
I watched the video you posted, thanks.
Debunking Denial – “Judea Declares War on Germany in 1933”
In that video, the narrator says :
4:23 : “And no Jewish organisation declared war on Germany if you actually bother to read the newspaper article”
5:26 : “If revisionists still insist that there was a Jewish Declaration of War on Germany, I kindly ask them to produce a copy of this Declaration of War as proof”
Evidence for the Jewish Declaration of War has already been provided above : Search this thread for “Holy War” and / or “Declaration of War”
There should be no dispute from anyone rational that Jews and others were persecuted.
Who started it, depends on how far back in German history you want to go and how much of that narrative you accept or reject.
You might also then expand your research into the history of other countries and their historic persecution of Jews.
The notion that the Jewish Declaration of Holy War on the German economy, would not be used by Germany as one of the reasons to continue / increase / accelerate said persecution, is preposterous. Such easily predicted consequences were precisely the stated reasoning behind much Jewish apprehension about the boycott.
One of the threads that requires expansion is the apparent antagonism between Jewish factions and the undeniable consequential fact that international Jews contrived to throw German Jews under the bus …
Extreme reactions to boycotts are not limited to Germans either.
I recall the Jewish Israeli Likudite, then Intelligence Minister, Yisrael Katz’s call for “targeted civil eliminations of BDS leaders” in 2016 …
There were no survivors in 1942. There were witnesses. Furthermore he helped many Jews ESCAPE. Escape from what?
He wrote that article in 1942. Not after the war.
Actually, the only mistake Franny was acknowledging was that she (mis)typed “shop and lampshades”, which I pointed out to her. She’s no further ahead on distinguishing propaganda from fact than she was. Presenting her with facts, which aggravate he cognitive dissonance, doesn’t seem to help.
No one is necessarily saying Wise just made it all up. However, he was a public figure with a public platform, so he brought the allegations to public attention, claiming he had definitive proof, and/or that everything he was relaying had been officially verified. So, was it verified and by whom?
Fry: “Jews are destroyed by poison gas or electricity.” – wrong.
“ specially constructed trucks, in which Jews are asphyxiated by carbon monoxide from the exhausts” – wrong.
“ There is burning alive.” – of children/infants, too? – wrong.
“ They add up to the most appalling picture of mass murder in all human history.” – compared to what? The relatively unknown Holodomor?
So, we hear/read – don’t say anything because then it seems the entire war is over Jews. Or, we must be silent/careful because then it will be revealed that Jews are/were causing problems in the world again and people just might wonder – again? Why? Or, we were distraught and shamed into silence! One thing the Jews are not – silent. Cunning/patient/calculating, yes.
Holocaust Encyclopedia
Between 1939 and 1942, Breckinridge Long implemented new State Department policies which prioritized US national security over humanitarian concerns.
The end.
So, how dare the U.S. government place national interests over obligations to the Jews! But, no – the war had nothing whatsoever to do with Jews, per se.
FDR, Wise, and Palestine
(pp. 225-264)
”You know there is not room in Palestine for many more people,” President Roosevelt told a surprised and dismayed Rabbi Wise in early 1938. “Perhaps another hundred or hundred and fifty thousand.”
Throughout FDR’s twelve years in office, Wise and his colleagues labored to convince the president that there was in fact room in Palestine for many hundreds of thousands, and ultimately millions, of Jewish immigrants. Justice Felix Frankfurter, among others, periodically sent the president newspaper clippings and Zionist memoranda to demonstrate Palestine’s promising future, especially its ability to absorb large numbers of new immigrants.
Mass immigration was the key…
MEDOFF, RAFAEL. “FDR, Wise, and Palestine.” The Jews Should Keep Quiet: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, and the Holocaust.
Well, Fran, it seems perhaps there was a Jewish agenda. It seems perhaps the allegations of Jews disproportionately/inappropriately influencing SLBFDR are/were likely true.
U.S. DEPARTMENT of STATE
Diplomacy, Dissent, and the Holocaust: Speaking Out, Then and Now
March 23, 2023
REMARKS
DANIEL GREENE: One of the lessons of this history is something else was always more important for the Americans than aiding Jews.
NARRATOR: In October 1965, after more than 40 years of dogged effort by New York Congressman Emanuel Celler, Congress passed an immigration bill that finally abolished the discriminatory quota system based on national origins that had denied sanctuary to so many desperate people trying to flee Hitler in the years before the war. But the bill imposed limits on people from the Americas who had gone back and forth across the border for generations. And it still made no provisions for most of the world’s refugees.
It appears that certain responsible officials of this government were so fearful that this government might act to save the Jews of Europe, if the gruesome facts relating to Hitler’s plans to exterminate them became known, that they attempted to suppress the facts. We leave it for your judgment whether this action made such officials the accomplices of Hitler in this program and whether or not these officials are not war criminals in every sense of the term.
NARRATOR: Treasury staff titled the document “Report to the Secretary on the Acquiescence of This Government in the Murder of the Jews.” But Morgenthau, who understood his boss better than most, toned down the accusatory rhetoric and renamed it simply “Personal Report to the President.”
AP News
September 16, 2023
Rome (AP) – newly discovered correspondence suggest that World War III – era pope Pius XI had detailed information from a trusted German Jesuit that up to 6000 Jews and Poles were being gassed each day in German occupied Poland….Corriere is reproducing a letter dated December 14, 1942…. The letter was significant because it represented detailed correspondence about the Nazi extermination of Jews, including the ovens… goes on to report that the Nazis were killing up to 6000 Jews and Poles daily from Rava Ruska…. or transporting them to the Belzec death camp.
According to the “Pope At War,” by Pulitzer Prize winning anthropologist, David Kertzer… The pope couldn’t speak out about Nazi atrocities because the Vatican hadn’t been able to verify the information.
[…] However…. also urged the Holy See to not make public what he was revealing because he feared for his own life, and the lives of the resistant sources who had provided the intelligence.
The end.
Why can’t America move on from the so-called Holocaust? It’s been over 80 years, and America was not rounding up Jews, nor were Americans responsible for numerous expulsions throughout history, and 500,000 American boys/men eventually died, but that wasn’t enough? Apparently not, as we give millions to Spielberg to fund his little Shoah project, and federal grants are all over the place to help with holocaust memorials/museums. I’m sick of it, Fran. There is obviously a secondary agenda beyond remembrance.
I think the Secretary of the Treasury was acting outside of his purview. Who paid the treasury staff to do all that necessary research?
Who decided America is obligated to act on behalf of the world’s Jews? Or, that America is/was responsible for all war refugees, and primarily the Jewish refugees? So much so that Jewish officials in America worked tirelessly to change America’s immigration laws, and they are doing the same in Europe.
My understanding is the “confirmed” sources of this 1942 information, to which only Jews were privy, were primarily anonymous, and, in general, no one but Jewish people were able to confirm/verify any of it, so what is the Spin then? The sources just could not be revealed at the time due to security concerns, but everything they said/asserted was absolutely true, yet it couldn’t be confirmed, although it was said/implied that it was officially confirmed, without endangering even more Jews, and although in 2023, we absolutely know much of the allegations were officially disproven (gas chambers at Dachau, etc.), we still carry/write on as if everything alleged was, in fact, true, and anyone who doubted the tales then was evil and responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews, and everyone who doubts it now are anti-Semites, who belong in political prisons.
That’s not what interests me in following up with a serious request for reasoned justification. But
,
is so far from self evident that I would be grateful for a guided, illustrated tour of the causes a
and effects involved including consideration, for example, of how Germans came to look down on Slavs as a result of Judaic influences and how it waan’t seen in other instances over 10,000 yeaes of other cases of one people being treared crydely by others. (That should test your knowledge of the Hindu scriptures).
I hope that is the real MM anot ome of your clones/bots instructed to use AI to make nice. Hard to disagree with you.
I don’t know, Oz. People are generally unwilling to use human remains in that particular manner, even if the corpses belong to an enemy.
Of course, some groups believe/believed cannibalism is/was perfectly acceptable, and some groups mutilated enemy corpses to prevent their spirits from accessing the spirit world. Those groups were not German/European, though. I’ve seen modern images of Africans in Liberia holding human legs over a fire pit like a drum-stick, and apparently the Māori ate their foes, as well.
Of all the random Sonderkommando testimonials I’ve heard, not one said there was any industrial use of ashes/bones; they all reported to have dumped them in the river and/or cast them to the wind. If fertilizer is in short supply, I think it would be easier to use animal carcasses/bones, egg shells, etc.
The official Holocaust narrative is not sensible.
Sensible people see the distortion of the truths – there were gas chambers for delousing; hair was cut to prevent the spread of lice, as were the required showers; tales of mass graves were morphed into tales of mass burnings when it finally occurred to someone(s) that a graveyard is a source of physical evidence; when all else fails, declare the “graveyards” as hallowed burial grounds, which cannot be disturbed due to Jewish/Talmudic prohibitions – we have suffered enough! Not another insult to our People!; the gas chamber tales in German/Western European camps were abandoned in favor of the camps in Eastern Europe, which were either dismantled before the end of the war, and/or captured by the Soviets…..there is a distinctive pattern to the changes in the narratives, which indicates the falsity of most of the claims.
A common practice with people who misuse quotes is to take a few words from one paragraph on page A and then a few other words from another paragraph on page B and string them together in a way which changes the meaning. What is particularly bad is when no ellipsis is used to tip a reader off that the quote has actually been broken. An honest author may sometimes find it appropriate to give quotations from successive passages which may be from different pages, as long as the meaning is consistent throughout. But even then, they are supposed to include and ellipsis to tip the reader off that some passage has been omitted.
‘Evacuation to the east’ was not about lebensraum. ‘Evacuation to the east’ was the term for the final solution to the Jewish question, with its corresponding roundups and mass-deportations. That is a different matter from the push for living space which was aimed at clearing Slavs away from territories that were meant to be eventually settled by Aryans.
Orthodox history at present maintains that the deportation of Jews to the east was a preliminary for wholesale gassings. Revisionist authors such as Robert Faurisson have rejected the gassing claims, while agreeing that some kind of mass-deportation was carried out and being a bit vague on what ultimately happened to all of the Jews. It’s not necessary to try to decide that right here at this moment.
What has been repeatedly harped on by various posters here is the idea that once Samuel Untermeyer had issued his call for a boycott, then thereafter the German government now had grounds for treating each Jew that it found in Poland, Hungary, Romania or wherever as a soldier in an army that Untermeyer was somehow in command of. That is totally unfounded. As I said above, Osama bin Laden actually had a much wider network of potential fighters ready to listen to him when he issued his fatwa in 1998.
Your own reference supports what I had said. First let’s note in the last paragraph which you yourself quote:
“B’nai B’rith in Germany moved its American counterpart to join the boycott movement. However, the American Jewish Committee remained unalterably opposed to the movement throughout the Nazi era.”
That is what I have said, the American Jewish Committee rejected the calls for a boycott.
But much more telling than that is what your own figures show:
Import from the U.S.
1929: 1,790
1932: 592
1937: 282
Export to the U.S.
1929: 991
1932: 281
1937: 209
Looking at those figures, we see that the major drop in trade between the US and Germany occurred between and 1929 and 1932, when Hitler was not in power, and Samuel Untermeyer had not given his speeches of either March or August. What accounts for this drop in trade? Duh! The Great Depression. In contrast, the continuing drop in trade that occurs from 1932 to 1937 is comparatively minor.
It’s true that the years of the Depression caused a lot of cutbacks in the world economy. But if you take that fact into account, then your own data suggests that the calls for a boycott by Untermeyer were practically irrelevant.
The line of argument falls under clear cut evidence–documents, blueprints, and eyewitness testimony.
Try harder next time.
“No he didn’t, and I suspect that unlike myself, you haven’t actually read Prof. Jackson’s fine article. Why don’t you quote me the passages that support your case?”
I did, in Comment 1048. Unfortunately, the complete article is essentially behind a paywall.
From what I gather, Gerald Reitlinger’s “The Final Solution (1953)” and Leon Poliakov’s “Harvest of Hate (1954)” offered a glimpse into the Holocaust. The American Journal of Sociology, The Annals of the American Academy of Political Science, and International Affairs reviewed these works, which made substantial headway in gathering, putting together, and analyzing sources from the time period.
In 1955, Whitney R. Harris’s “Tyranny on Trial: The Evidence at Nuremberg (1954)” and Lord Russell’s “The Scourge of the Swastika: A Short History of Nazi War Crimes (1954)” were reviewed by Commentary. It would seem to me that their studies make it impossible for any responsible person to remain in doubt regarding the nature and structure of the Nazi plan against the European Jews. Furthermore, a review by Commonweal for Joseph Tenenbaum’s “Race And Reich: The Story Of An Epoch (1956) labeled it “a precise, documented account of Hitler’s Final Solution to the Jewish question through the systematic murder of six million human beings”.
In addition, I provided another source, albeit a graduate thesis.
“I think the most plausible explanation for this huge discrepancy is that by the late 1940s, more and more mainstream journalists and historians had begun to recognize that the Holocaust had just been ridiculous wartime propaganda”
No, the more plausible explanation is what Professor Jackson and Professor Baron have both stated, which poses a significant quandry for your narrative. From Professor Baron…
“Jackson casually dismissed Capt. Grenfell as a “fascist” but I’m rather skeptical of that claim.”
That is a red herring on your part.
“There’s sometimes a tendency to claim that everyone you disagree with must be a “fascist” or maybe a “communist” but that’s a foolish way to argue.”
In the same way that you characterize your detractors as being “a total ignoramus” and ” “. Look in the mirror first before making such pronouncements. You need to be more cautious in your use of language.
“I’ve gradually come to the rueful conclusion that not a single word presented in mainstream sources regarding Jewish or Israeli issues can be assumed correct, and quite often represents the absolute inversion of reality.”
In your opinion. A reasonable person could argue that your statement here is a clear case of confirmation bias.
Indeed, there was a cite omission on my part. I need to be better.
Regardless, you are tying yourself into knots.
I mean, this charge is ridiculous and has been proven to be false-“General Eisenhower also killed hundreds of thousands of Germans after the war; why don’t you learn what General Patton said differently in 1945?”
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/11/22/specials/ambrose-atrocities.html
Exactly why “you remain utterly clueless despite the volumes of good information widely available”.
Oh, I see. I think the more common phraseology is “Resettlement to the East.”
I just found this entry in wiki, Resettlement to the East:
Looking at what has transpired in Western homelands ever since WW2, most observers would agree that the German people had lost complete sovereignty over their homeland when the Master Race had transformed it into the Weimar Republic.
The Master Race had successfully executed a bloody revolution a few decades earlier in Russia and Hungary and they had their sights on Germany.
So, most observers would agree the German people had every right to restore their sovereignty over their homeland, by force if necessary. In that light, Judea Declaring War on Germany can simply be regarded as the cherry on top of the sundae, no?
Brilliant!!! Thank You and congrats. It is hard to be the only one on here showing Ron for what he truly is, a biased story teller. The information Ron presents in his long, massive doses of words adds up to nothing. Ron thinks he has you at “hello”, because his work appears to erudite. It is like all revisionist work pseudo erudite. Revisionist science is pseudo science following the same blue print that Ron uses, academic lingo.
The contents of Ron’s articles writings can be ripped shreds by factual history, that is frankly undeniable, with many cross references. It already has been ripped to shreds. Holocaust denial had its day in the sun for a while, first people ignored it, but finally when the full weight and concentration of scientist and historians went at it full on, Holocaust denial died a natural and easy death. It is just a pile of embers.
What I do not understand is why Ron does not do an interview with Norman Finkelstein, a kindred spirit. Finkelstein knows the Holocaust happened and that the gassing of the Jews took place, because his entire family was wiped out. So with one interview Ron could find the facts out with stone cold hard truth.
Your problem is that there were/are no authenticated blueprints/drawings for any homicidal gas chambers.
The reason is very simple, there were no homicidal gas chambers in any German camp. The Zundel trials in Toronto proved this conclusively as none of the prosecution’s eye witnesses were able to supply a first hand account thereof, even though some of them claimed to have been residents in said camp.
So you believe that Martians are coming any day now to take it over from the Jews? This maybe the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.
Which was the big shots, the Commies, or the Bankers or both? No empires in the way? No kings or Queens. Just the Jews.
That’s right Geo the cherry on top of the sundae.
Yeah all of those Jews in the Pales Settlements pushing carts with rags in them took over the sovereignty of the German homeland. The cherry
For the umptyseventh time I have asked in this forum, in different threads, that holocost allegations be substantiated with authenticated verifiable forensic evidence.
In thousands upon thousands of postings, not a single author has been willing or able to furnish such evidence.
To me at least that speaks libraries about the lack of any such evidence.
As has become abundantly clear, the (((capitalist bankers))) like Jacob Schiff were financing the (((commie revolutionaries))) like Lev Bronstein.
With regard to empires, all four empires (Austrian-Hungarian, Russian, German, Ottoman) disappeared after WW1 and the British Empire disappeared after WW2.
With regard to kings and queens, this was the slogan that inspired the revolutionaries of the day…
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”
What Jewish bankers (like the Rothschilds) came to understand is that monarchies are much more difficult to subvert than democracies. For example, Jewish bankers were working overtime in their attempt to influence the German Kaiser, but to no avail. Once they toppled the Second Reich and replaced their ruler with the people’s representatives, the Weimar Republic soon followed. With no exaggeration, every single Western liberal democracy has been subverted and the people of these homelands are no longer sovereign.
No, Fran. All those Jews from the Pale of Settlement emigrated to America in the late 19th c and early 20th c. In no time at all, they have successfully transformed America into Weimerica. While the German homeland was transformed into the Weimar Republic by Central European Jews, the Russian empire was transformed into a worker’s paradise by Eastern European Jews.
It’s clear that the sons of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been relentless in their efforts to implement Hashem’s will, implementation of Operation Tikkun Olam. The goal of this psyop is that goyim (idolaters or heathens) come to worship HaShem and HaShem’s chosen people, as Noahides.
I’ve repeatedly asked you to disavow your belief in the propriety of the Noahide Laws, a clear manifestation of Jewish Supremacy and the Master Race.
You won’t do it Fran because you are indeed a Jewish Supremacist and a member of the Master Race.
You won’t do it Fran because you are indeed a Jewish Supremacist and a member of the Master Race.
I maybe a card carrying member of the Master Race, but you Geo are a card carrying lunatic who needs meds and an institution. I would surely rather be me than you. You are seriously delusional, devoid of reality.
Of course there were.
https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/through-the-lens/auschwitz-blueprints.asp
“For the umptyseventh time I have asked in this forum, in different threads, that holocost allegations be substantiated with authenticated verifiable forensic evidence.”
It has been. You simply don’t believe it.
It was not an omission; it was complete/utter plagiarism. How much of said paragraph was your own verbiage?
Finally, CorvinusLaPere says/writes something correct.
Over you and your silliness? Don’t be ridiculous.
Eisenhower was a war criminal. Why would he/did he reclassify POWs? Why was General Patton opposed to Eisenhower’s policies?
Yet again, you offered no citation.
Rich, coming from a Chabadnik who believes every word in the Torah is true because it was spoken by HaShem, lol.
Queen Esther’s worldview… you’re destined to be my slave, goy!
Probably because what you deem to be evidence would be laughed out of any impartial court.
Yeah you keep thinking about the slave-goys
The Jew under every bed
The Noahide laws, and Jew supremacy.
Have a wonderful life. Everywhere a Jew. Enjoy,
Anti Nazi Boycotts
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/anti-nazi-boycotts
Patrick McNally wrote :
Nothwithstanding your sly attempt at sophistry by comparing one period’s revenue decrease with that which occurred beginning with the 1929 crash …
It appears that we have differing views of what level of reduced trade between Germany and the US, constitutes a significant decrease…
The trade figures between 1932 and 1937 clearly show a 25% decrease in exports and a 52% decrease in imports. That seems significant to me, although what percentage of those decreases are directly attributable to the boycott is not known.
These unverified trade figures are just between Germany and the US.
They do not include trade with any other boycotting country.
The fact remains that there is evidence that the German economic authorities viewed the effects of the boycott very seriously.
In the same way that “The Father of modern Zionism”, Theodor Herzl, really meant, “genocide of Palestinians”, when he first proclaimed in 1899 that, “Zionism is the The Final Solution to the Jewish Question” …
Hasbara translation: it’s all in your head, goy! We Jewish Supremacists dindu muffin, lol!
Try gaslighting this info, Queen Esther…
RON DESANTIS GIVES CHABAD JEWS THEIR NOAHIDE LAW ‘MOMENT OF SILENCE‘
Video Link
Adam Green starting @ 6:35:
CorvinusLaPere, did you actually read the NYT article, written by Stephen Ambrose, subject of the link you posted? It is beyond dispute that the captives were designated as Disarmed Enemy Forces, rather than POWs, which thereby removed the captives from the Geneva Convention provisions/protections. We can quibble endlessly over the BS reason offered by Eisenhower, et al, for so doing, but regardless, the new designation made it easier for the mistreatment to occur.
There is a mini–documentary, The Untold Story of Eisenhower‘s Rhine Meadows Death Camps, easily found on the internet, wherein Mr. Ambrose participates, and he says the following:
“I did quite a lot of investigating of my own on this story, and learned, indeed, that he [Bacque] has made a discovery here…German POWs, and these weren’t SS, they weren’t war criminals, these were ordinary German kids that were conscripts into the German Wehrmacht, and they were, they were, brutally mistreated, in fact, in many cases. There’s no excuse for it. It’s understandable, considering the conditions in the spring of 1945 and what the GI’s who were regarding these men had seen. But, the gross figures, two things that really disturbed me, the gross figures – this million dead, and to the assertion that he insisted on, that this was a policy matter, that General Eisenhower deliberately set out to punish the Germans by starving them to death….”
The NYT article, Ike and the Disappearing Atrocities: [My comments in brackets]
[…] Our first conclusion was that Mr. Bacque had made a major historical discovery….the most immediate question is that of Eisenhower’s motive: why on earth would Ike do such a thing?….Eisenhower hated the Germans. Now it is absolutely true that in the spring of 1945, Eisenhower’s anger at the Germans was very great…in “Crusade in Europe,” published in 1948, he wrote….”I grew constantly more bitter against the Germans.” He relates that he signed tens of thousands of letters of condolence to the wives and mothers of his fallen men, and he wrote, “I know of no more effective means of developing an undying hatred of those responsible for aggressive war than to assume the obligation of attempting to express sympathy to families bereaved by it.”
[Well, CorvinusLaPere, if you actually knew anything about the true history of WW2, you would understand that his ire should’ve been directed mostly at SLBFDR.]
Mr. Bacque completely misunderstands Eisenhower’s position and activity in the occupation. He puts full responsibility on Eisenhower for every policy decision, never recognizing that he had superiors from whom he took policy directives and orders….
[CorvinusLaPere, are you at all familiar with the Nuremberg trials, and the methods that they used, then, and to this very day, to convict German “war criminals!” If you did, you would understand the irony of this statement.]
[…] It took a conference of experts to challenge Mr. Bacque’s charges. Individual scholars have hesitated to take him on because to do so required checking through his research — in effect, rewriting his book. Instead, many of them have said in their reviews in Britain, France, Germany and Canada that they cannot believe what Mr. Bacque says about Eisenhower is true, but they cannot disprove it….
Under these circumstances, what is a lay reader to do? I suggest that he or she trust common sense. As when confronting the Holocaust-never-happened school, ask the obvious questions. If the answers aren’t clear, the charges have not been proved.
[Well, does this supposition also apply to the so-called Holocaust? And, he essentially admits no sincere effort to disprove Bacque’s claims were/had been made. Do you understand this? Do you care?]
In Mr. Bacque’s case, two such questions are: Where are the bodies?….
[OMG! I can’t believe he went there! Yet another question that is utterly ignored for any analysis of the so-called Holocaust. CorvinusLaPere, a cursory search on my part revealed two things: the existence of two remote cemeteries, both containing the remains of over 1000 German Rhine Meadow POW’s at each gravesite; the testimony of a former POW/DEF prisoner, who claimed that US military trucks appeared daily at the camp to gather the bodies and haul them away. I have no doubt that the United States knows the answer to that question, and if anyone is interested in learning/knowing, it is not illegal to ask.]
The end.
In January 1945, the US dropped leaflets behind enemy lines, in German language, encouraging surrender to end the war, with assurances of proper treatment, and the availability of safe conduct passes; the Canadian War Museum has copies of said leaflets, designated CWM 1994004–371, and here is the text in an English translation:
IN SAFETY !
For the comrades who are prisoners of war of the Allies, the war is definitely over. Many of them came into captivity quite against their will, but in a hopeless situation they had to choose between death and life. And they decided:
Better free than a prisoner of war – Better a prisoner of war than dead.
1,000,000 German soldiers in the West are now in safety and are where they can forget the hopeless present and prepare themselves for a more hopeful future. For them, as for everyone who gives up, the following principles of the Geneva Convention apply:
1. Immediate removal from the battle–zone.
2. Decent treatment, as becomes brave enemies.
3. Ample food, same as that of Allied troops.
4. Hospital care same as that of the Allies.
5. Regular mail connection with home.
6. Opportunity for paid work.
7. Professional training, sport activities.
8. As soon as possible after the war: return home
If you have to quit, remove your weapons, helmet and belt.
Raise your hands, wave something white
and shout to the Allied soldiers:
EI SORRENDER！
The end.
CorvinusLaPere, I’ll leave it to you to deduce what you will about another apparent Betrayal by the Judaized American Government against the German people.
To go with my supremacist status you should be calling me Your Royal Highness Queen Esther.
Interesting choice of songs, Fran. Are you trying to not so subtly tell me something?
> Looking at what has transpired in Western homelands ever since WW2
That’s not a very useful criterion for assessing what was happening in the first half of the 20th century in Germany. The pattern of the USA since 1945 reflects a classic form of degeneration of empires. The biggest difference from, say, the decline of the Roman Empire, is that modern technology causes historical phenomena to pass at a swifter pace. The kind of decline which the USA saw in the years 1945-2020 would once have taken about 3 times as long, 223 years, to occur. But it’s still a very similar pattern.
The events in Germany 1918-33 were very different in nature. Germany first suffered from an inflation which was a hangover effect from the war. Reparations demanded by the peace treaty were not the main cause of this, but they did aggravate the problem to some extent. Then the years 1924-8 actually showed a strong recovery, which ended when the world economy crashed. But the German economy began to recover in 1932, partly because of Heinrich Bruning’s success in persuading the Allies to drop the reparations payments as a requirement. Everything was on the road to recovery and the NSDAP in decline, when Hitler managed to persuade Papen to influence Hindenburg into giving him the Chancellorship.
> The trade figures between 1932 and 1937 clearly show a 25% decrease in exports and a 52% decrease in imports.
Whereas the same data shows a 67% and 72% decrease with regards to 1929-32, when there was no talk of a boycott.
> The fact remains that there is evidence that the German economic authorities viewed the effects of the boycott very seriously.
That statement is hazy enough that there’s no reason to try to dispute it. What remains is that it is totally absurd for anyone to imply that any significant part of later German policy on The Final Solution to the Jewish Question was somehow a response to Samuel Untermeyer’s attempts to call for a boycott.
Again, the relevant point here is that no matter what one may view the Final Solution as really entailing, it absolutely was not adopted as a response to Untermeyer speeches in 1933. It was part of an ideological agenda which Hitler had incorporated into his worldview by 1924 at the latest. Untermeyer’s attempts to rally support for a boycott had little to do with it.
Thanks. Atrocities, for a wide variety of reasons, should be avoided at all costs, and perpetrators punished with just consequences.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the big and important wars (WWII, US Civil War, and the present nascent WWIII with Russia in Ukraine, etc) the US grants itself and any of it’s allies it might have, a free pass to commit any and all atrocities they might desire, generally without there being any fear of prosecution whatsoever. [Of course, if you are a defeated opponent of the US, every jot and tittle and then some of ‘International Law’, ad hoc as it might be, is expected to be adhered to.]
If a person doubts this read the link below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
One of the very rare instances of prosecution for US atrocities in WWII was for the July 14, 1943 Biscari, Sicily massacre of 37 Italian POW’s by the American Sergeant Horace West. West was tried and found guilty for the mass murder, and given a life sentence.
But wait, there’s more. Upon the recommendation of the War Department’s Bureau of Public Relations (ie this massacre looked bad) and Eisenhower deciding to ‘give the man a chance’, West was ordered released from prison on November 24, 1944 and restored to active duty in the US army.
West would ultimately be given an honorable discharge at the war’s end in 1945.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_massacre
It’s the gross hypocrisy like this that turns me off the whole atrocity accusation business and why I generally stay out of this ‘Tar-Baby’. Since it was the US and UK which has been at the forefront of promoting the idea of ‘war crimes’ and ‘crimes against humanity’ they should lead by example in regards to their own plentiful violations, but they don’t.
When, if ever they do change, I might feel different about the entire thing.
The problem, as I see it, is the perception/designation of war crimes. I think it can be said, that war, in and of itself, is a crime. However, struggles for supremacy, dominance, resources, expansion, defense, is a constant element of human survival, and it’s seen amongst all living beings, so is it a crime to rid yourself of what ails your particular society, especially if diplomacy/policy does not work?
Personally, I think a war crime, just as smut/pornography, is in the category of – I know it when I see it – and whilst the majority of people within a specific culture would find common agreement on both issues, other groups have different standards, and therein lies the problem of multiculturalism, which Jews, in general, do promote tirelessly, in part because they clearly operate with different standards/objectives outside of what is typically acceptable amongst European peoples in war and daily life.
On misbehavior of soldiers in combat, without defending the commission of obvious atrocities, such as gang-raping civilians, looting of non-military property/assets, etc., I’m sure many men, particularly the young/immature, often snap under the pressure, deprivations, constant threats, death, gore…..however the Bolsheviks/Soviets had an official policy of atrocities, so there we are again with obvious/important cultural differences. To some, all is fair in love and war. I think Nature somewhat agrees – have you ever watched the overthrow of a Lion King, and the subsequent acquisition of his pack/harem?
To my great sadness/disappointment, I have come to know that the US government is indeed NOW a lair of hypocrisy. And, of war criminals/aliens. I can only say that there are no perfect people on this earth, however America, which is/was essentially Europa, is/was no worse than any other, and was certainly better than most at one time. The government was infiltrated, and now that is happening apace to the people/citizens. When Europa is gone, America will be no more. I guess the world will then be Judea/Israel/Molochville.
Pretzel, were the Ukrainians slavic? Were the Poles in the eastern portion of Poland Slavs? Did the Soviets spend several years haggling over territory formally in their domain in attempts to find a peaceful solution? I’m just trying to figure out why you don’t have your knickers in a twist over what Stalin and the Bolsheviks did to the Slavs in Ukraine, Poland, eastern Europe.
Pretzel, the deportation of Jews was/is known to everyone, and is acknowledged by everyone, and Hitler openly proclaimed his intentions of sending them elsewhere, and the Final Solution was booting ALL of them out since too many amongst them insisted that Germany should remain “New Palestine.” There’s nothing to decide as that was/is the reality.
No one says that, Pretzel. No one.
Most people are aware (on thread, anyway) that organized Jewry was in the NS crosshairs, which meant no more central banking; no more control of media; no more Magnus Hirschfeld “sexologist” BS; no more Talmudic vengeance/venom, and the grounds for kicking the Jews to the curb were exactly those proclaimed by every other nation who previously did the same. So, Untermyer and the Joo Crew did everything possible to muddy the waters, deceive, exaggerate, and thwart every attempt of Germany to remove Jewry from within because for some strange reason, the MolochPeople think they get to decide how nearly every western nation runs itself.
Yes, I tend to agree with you. War is the biggest atrocity of them all.
While I am in no way for the committing of atrocities, taking into account the nature of war, ie ‘sheer murder’, attempting to formally criminalize them as the US/UK has done has always been problematical, even a bit of a fools errand perhaps. Had the US/UK chose to lead by example in this regard in prosecuting their own, thus likely tempering things a bit, things might have been different, but alas…
[As it stands, with the United States granting itself and it’s allies what amounts to a free pass in regards to the commission of atrocities (ie effectively no prosecution), particularly in the big wars, it is simply gross hypocrisy and glorified ‘victor’s justice’.]
Quite sad. Full blown inversion of reality and projection I think they call it. 🙁
Which, as you have already said in your earlier sophistry, came before the boycott and was a result of the 1929 crash, so had nothing to do with the boycott and I did not claim that it did. So why you choose to labour the irrelevant point yet again, is a mystery …
> The fact remains that there is evidence that the German economic authorities viewed the effects of the boycott very seriously.
Well the evidence is there if you wish to find it.
What remains, is your feeble attempt to use sophistry to compare two periods of declining trade between Germany and a single other country, to try to refute any idea that international Jews may have held some responsibility for throwing the German Jews under the bus by Declaring Holy War on the German economy and thereby risking further persecution of German Jews – something which many of the Jewish groups and leaders pontificated on. Their published statements on this dichotomy alone, contradicts your vacuous negationist stance.
What remains are your efforts to reinforce the orthodox dogma, that that the Jewish led boycott of Germany was inconsequential, had little or no effect on anything and so can ignored so that those behind it are absolved from any responsibility. Plus ca change …
Perhaps you might benefit from researching the reactions of German authorities and German Jews to the boycott.
The timing of the Jewish led boycott of Germany is particularly significant because it was instigated at a time when Jewish Zionists were collaborating economically with the German authorities to enable German Jews to emigrate to Palestine.
Again, the relevant point here is that no matter what arguments are proffered, you will contradict them in an effort to support the standard dogma, that the Jewish led boycott of Germany was inconsequential an in no way contributed to further persecution of European Jewry.
I suggest that it is self-evident that a Jewish Declaration of Holy War on the German economy would inevitably provide yet more grist to the German persecution mill so would further jeopardise European Jews. Jewish leaders certainly spoke about that risk at the time.
Again, the relevant point here is that the phrase, “The Final Solution to the Jewish Question” was first used by “The Father of Modern Zionism” Theodor Herzl in 1899, just two years after he demanded Palestine as a homeland for the Jews.
Regarding the German National Socialist’s use of the phrase, it is an historic fact that Goering ordered Heydrich to implement “The Final Solution to the Jewish Question by way of evacuation and emigration”.
It’s no mystery – Pretzel pretzels all over the place, all the time, everywhere, endlessly; there’s rarely a subject he does not twist around….and, he’s a Bolshevik.
It also seems it was the Zionists who were primarily promoting/spreading the atrocity allegations.
One of my favorite Arthur Butz quotes is – There was a war going on during WWII.
> were the Ukrainians slavic? Were the Poles in the eastern portion of Poland Slavs?
Obviously, Poles and Ukrainians were better off with a Soviet victory over the Third Reich. There was no attempt to resettle these territories with Russians seeking living space. Whatever complaints they had with the political administration imposed by Moscow, it was notably preferable to Hitler’s intent of reducing any population which was allowed to remain to illiterate serfs.
> No one says that,
That is exactly what multiple clows on this board have claimed. If you’re choosing to disassociate yourself from that, then that would be a positive step. But a frequent claim which gets tossed out here is that Samuel Untermeyer’s calls for a boycott (which were never very effective) somehow that now Hitler was dealing with a war waged by world Jewry in 1933 and so his subsequent actions were in response to this. Total nonsense.
> Well the evidence is there if you wish to find it.
Evidence for what? The evidence shows very clearly that in the first month or so after Hitler gained the Chancellorship, the SA troops were rampaging around and attacking various people in ways which seemed to be building up to something more. In addition to attacks on political rivals, including conservative figures who could not remotely be associated with any type of Left, there were ongoing efforts to track down all of the small Jewish businesses. Then after Untermeyer had issued his call for a boycott of Germany, the SA simply called for a one-day boycott of Jewish shops. The evidence is there if you wish to find it, that Untermeyer have stopped a major pogrom from occurring. We don’t really what would have happened in an alternate history. But it seems likely that the original intent of the SA was to go further, while Hitler would have stayed in the background and only disassociated himself if things went wrong.
> The timing of the Jewish led boycott of Germany is particularly significant because it was instigated at a time when Jewish Zionists were collaborating economically
No, you’re mixed up. That came later. There was nothing of the sort going on at the time when Untermeyer issued his call for a boycott in March. What was happening was that the SA were storming through the streets and things looked ugly. The later Haavara Agreement was part of the retreat away from this.
> I suggest that it is self-evident that a Jewish Declaration of Holy War on the German economy would inevitably provide yet more grist to the German persecution mill so would further jeopardise European Jews
As I’ve pointed out, the immediate effect was quite the opposite. The SA showed a lot of signs in early 1933 that they were preparing to run wild. Hitler pulled them back, and eventually carried out the Night of the Long Knives. The Haavara Agreement itself was a response to Untermeyer’s calls in March 1933 for a boycott. While it’s impossible to know what would have happened in an alternate future, there is certainly good reason for suspecting that the rampage of the SA was temporarily halted by Untermeyer’s efforts.
And again, your own data shows that the calls for a boycott did not very much effect. You’ve casually admitted that the main decline in German-US trade occurred in 1929-32 and had nothing to do with Untermeyer. But in that case, it is only logical to expect some further decline will continue at a much slower pace in 1932-37. From your own data, it’s not at all obvious that anything else played much of a role. It certainly was not the motivating force for the Final Solution that was launched in World War II.
I rather think that the relevant part of that little exercise in Judeophilia must be the ‘…absorbed the wealth of every country they lived in’. Was the author actually being sarcastic, and peddling a cryptic Judeophobic message?
Surely Jews are not the only group to practise ‘..frugality, continence, temperance and industry’, so why were they the only group to ‘absorb the wealth of every country..’ etc? Could such pecuniary success have anything to do with larcency, nepotism, crime, exploitation, usury etc.?
Naturally I deplore the persecution of anyone, including Jews. I’m not a Zionazi after all. But it is incumbent on anybody who wishes to prevent any new catastrophe befalling any group of Jews, to honestly examine WHY Jews have been so often held in disdain and fear, even hatred. The Jewish apology that it was ALWAYS the result of goy perfidy, based on religious hatred or mere envy of the Jews’ superiority in all fields, and NEVER the fault in any way of the Jews themselves, the descendant arguments of which are being feverishly mobilised to justify the Zionazi genocide in Gaza, doesn’t wash. In Gaza the Zionazis are preparing the way, sooner or later, for the greatest calamity ever to befall the Jews, and the rest of us as well.
I’m thinking he was sincere.
The guy who wrote the excerpted 1870 article (which appeared in the then hugely influential US establishment oriented Atlantic Monthly) was a popular Massachusetts based British born biographer named James Parton.
While Parton is ultimately responsible for the article’s contents, whose title in more modern English would translate as ‘Our Jewish Brothers’, he may have been influenced in some degree by the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism. [See link below]
http://www.revneal.org/Writings/Writings/british.htm
Obviously, that’s outrageous, even coming from Pretzel. Obviously, millions of starved Ukrainian Slavs mean nothing to the Bolshevik Pretzel, and those Slavic/Polish officials tortured/murdered by the Soviets might have been grateful for some interference by a few German soldiers, as many Jewish eyewitnesses confirmed a preference for the Germans:
Anna Bergman – [in German occupied Bohemia] “There were curfews, and we weren’t allowed to do this or that…. but one could live….There was a possibility to get out…but we chose to stay….because life was much too easy. [Her] husband was an architect, and he was employed by the Germans.”
Renata Skotnicka – [in German occupied Warsaw] “Life was miserable with the Soviets…we registered to return to [German] Warsaw.”
Agi Day – [German occupied Budapest] “everyone was unhappy with the Soviets; no one starved with the Germans; the communists were making life miserable; I escaped into Austria.”
I think you may be wrong, Pretzel.
Why were there so many illiterate serfs in eastern Europe? Can one be reduced to a state of illiteracy? So, collectivism, and the efforts to impose it upon the serf populace, did not reduce the population, Pretzel? Who were the Soviets stuffing in those Gulags in Siberia? Pretzel…what’s wrong with you?
I don’t believe anyone on this thread has made such an assertion. I’m fairly certain everyone on this thread knows that Adolf Hitler was griping about Jews long before 1933; the international effort to further impede any economic/cultural resurgence of ethic German interests was lead/instigated/supported/proclaimed by Untermyer, and he lied through his teeth in August of 1933, and he waxed hysterical over the Aristocrats of the World, and how the World was obliged to save the Jews, thereby proving Hitler’s accusations of global Jewish sword-rattling and manipulation whenever they are opposed or their hegemony is threatened.
The boycott may not have been as effective, nor as absolute, as Untermyer hoped, but it garnered attention and stirred things up, and regardless of what you say, there were negative consequences to Germany as a result.
I repeat : The fact remains that there is evidence that the German economic authorities viewed the effects of the boycott very seriously. The reason that some Jewish groups resisted the call to join the boycott was because of their concerns for the safety of German Jews. All of which contradicts the notion that the boycott was ineffectual, as do the declining German / US trade values between 1932 and 1937 which clearly show a 25% decrease in exports and a 52% decrease in imports.
You then move from it’s effects to the justification for the boycott :
I have read about the call to boycott various Jewish department stores, in two cases because of tax evasion, letting off stink bombs therein and also the placards calling for a German boycott of Jewish shops to encourage German folk to buy German goods. I have read about Goering’s refusal to allow the police to become the guards of Jewish shops.
What exactly were the so-called “atrocities” that the Germans were being accused of which provided the rationale for the Jewish boycott of the German economy?
Good grief. Do you have to find fault with everything, just for the sake of it?
It is a well known fact that von Mildenstein began his evaluation visit to Palestine in the spring of 1933, as a prerequisite for cooperation with the Zionists to allow German Jewish emigration there. This clearly means that discussions between the two, preceded this visit. Their collaboration was formalised by the Haavara Agreement on 25 August 1933.
The US boycott effort began when the Jewish War Veterans first called for a boycott on 17 March 1933 and it progressed from there.
In May 1933 an agreement was signed for a million Reichmarks of Jewish wealth to be transferred to Palestine as farming equipment.
Clearly, the Germans were collaborating economically with the Palestine Zionists and planning to allow German Jews to emigrate to safety in Palestine, at the same time that the Jewish led boycott of the German economy began and took hold and further jeopardised the safety of Jews in Germany.
Your questions based on non mentioning of the Holocaust are certainly worth posing but I am not convinced that you have through imagination and extensive reading arrived at the truth. As it happens I started watching while on my exercise bike a long film called “After Auschwitz” featuring the stories and reminiscences of five Jewish female articulate concentration camp survivors (all I think ending up in California) who seem to have been born in the 1920s and mostly lived to ripe old ages. I persisted to see if my initial impression was correct that the Holocaust wasn’t named and gas chambers not mentioned. Not quite but, after more than an hour there was just one mention of gas chambers when one of the 5 referred to not being able to envisage her mother in the gas chamber or some such single fleeting reference. And the Holocaust got a mention in an expression of gratitude to Steven Spielberg.
I think if you watch it you will see how the stories of the camps came to be suppresed as it would be bad taste and unpopular for these immigrants not to just shut up and get on with being productive Americans, while, as was the case with my POW father, children weren’t told much, if anything, dezpite the tattoed numbers.
I was struck by how healthy the young female ex prisoners looked in 1945 footage. But that might have been connected to the observation I picked up from a follow on film that skills could give someone a very good chance of surviving,and that could just be the skill of needlework.
A related thought is that there is a question of evidence that I haven’t seen raised by anyone on TUR. It is perfectly clear that many thousands of prisoners at camps without lethal gas chambers died, many of typhus. So how much Zyclon B was delivered to Bergen Belsen, Dachau etc. Indeed how much was delivered to PoW camps such as the one my father emerged from weighing half his prewar golfing weight of 210 pounds?
> millions of starved Ukrainian Slavs mean nothing
It was part of the Hunger Plan, drawn up in the Third Reich in early 1941, that tens of millions of Slavs should be allowed to starve. In some ways this was interrupted by the fact that the USSR did not collapse swiftly, as had been expected by Hitler originally. When it became obvious that the German army was going to be absorbed in combat operations for a good while, then it was also clear that Russians and Ukrainians were the only ones who would have the chance to gather crops.
It should be emphasized that the great majority of east Ukrainians supported the Soviet army in World War II. The OUN was a west Ukrainian group. Their territory had been part of Poland until September 1939. A few individuals from the east (e.g. John Demjanjuk) collaborated with the Germans. Most east Ukrainians fought fervently for the Soviet side.
East Ukraine was the region that was part of the USSR when crop failures caused by natural disaster occurred in 1931-2. The Volga experienced a crop failure in 1931 and Ukraine in 1932. You seem to be echoing the old Cold War propaganda which used to claim that an abundant crop had been harvested, but that Stalin took the crops away and shipped them abroad in order to deliberately starve people. That was a Cold War lie. Mark Tauger has described in detail both the actual scale of crop harvests in 1931-3 and the degree to which some grain was exported.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150624161702/https://newcoldwar.org/archive-of-writings-of-professor-mark-tauger-on-the-famine-scourges-of-the-early-years-of-the-soviet-union/
https://web.archive.org/web/20150624162006/http://newcoldwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Tauger-Natural-Disaster-and-Human-Actions-in-the-Soviet-Famine-of-1931-33.pdf
https://www.academia.edu/72537031/Statistical_Falsification_in_the_Soviet_Union
The only really legitimate criticism to be made here of the Soviet leadership is that Stalin in 1928 pushed things too fast as part of an effort to upstage Trotsky from the Left. It’s really too bad that people like Trotsky, Bukharin et alia were so much in conflict with each other that they were easily outfoxed by Stalin. Trotsky had always understood that it made more sense to first build up Soviet industry with the production of farm machinery in order to reduce the amount of agricultural labor before any collectivization was attempted.
When Trotsky first proposed the need to launch a 5-year plan for the development of the Soviet economy, he emphasized the need to create industrial goods which would be useful to farms and would allow the transference of more farm laborers into urban industry. All of this was to be done before any collectivization could be accomplished. At the time, Stalin was aligned with Bukharin and opposed any large-scale government plans for industrialization.
When Trotsky had been expelled from the party and exiled to outer edges of the USSR, Stalin then broke with Bukharin and began advocating a 5-year plan of his own. In order to distinguish himself from Trotsky’s original program, Stalin now demanded a rapid collectivization of agriculture even before anything had been done to equip farms with modern machinery. This sparked a lot of resistance from Russian and Ukrainian peasants (not exclusively from Ukrainians, despite what OUN-propaganda may have claimed) and a lot of animals were slaughtered, and crops allowed to rot, by peasants themselves during 1928-31. That did not cause a famine directly. But when the crop failures from rustic plant disease and rat infestations occurred in 1931-2, it’s logical to see some connection with the earlier conditions created when peasants allowed a lot of their products to rot away.
Even so, this did not result in any popularity for Hitler among the east Ukrainians.
> The fact remains that there is evidence that the German economic authorities viewed the effects of the boycott very seriously. The reason that some Jewish groups resisted the call to join the boycott was because of their concerns for the safety of German Jews. All of which contradicts the notion that the boycott was ineffectual
No, it doesn’t. That’s a false deduction on your part. I had already said that the issue if how seriously German authorities really viewed Untermeyer’s call for a boycott is too nebulous to worth arguing over. That remains true. When a boycott is called one doesn’t really know how effective it will or won’t be. Hence, it may be necessary to treat it seriously up to a point. But that says nothing about how really effective it was.
> the declining German / US trade values between 1932 and 1937 which clearly show a 25% decrease in exports and a 52% decrease in imports.
As I pointed out already, that represents a slowdown in the decline which had already been ongoing since 1929. If someone had never heard of Untermeyer but simply looked at the raw data of US-German trade from 1929-37 their conclusion would be something like:
“The Great Depression really caused a downturn in US-German trade. At least the effects of the Depression were slowing down after 1932.”
It wouldn’t even occur to someone to hypothesize that some called for a boycott in 1933. If a serious boycott was enforced against the background of the decline in US-German trade that had already happened in 1929-32, then that should have ended all US-German trade totally. The slower decline which continued in 1932-7 is perfectly explicable just as the result of the Depression.
> von Mildenstein began his evaluation visit to Palestine in the spring of 1933,
To be precise, it was on April 7 that the Zionist Federation of Germany declared its wish to be “honest partners” with the new German authorities. Yes, this was after the call for a boycott had been made by Untermeyer. The one-day boycott of April 1, 1933, had already shown that the SA was being held back in response to the bad publicity which Germany was getting. You are simply to mix up dates in order to downplay the evidence that the SA in early 1933 was likely preparing a pogrom which it was forced to call off because of bad publicity in the foreign press.
This is all the more remarkable when the following trade statistics are considered:
Change in gross domestic product (GDP) in the United States and European countries over select periods during the Great Depression from 1929 to 1938
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1237792/europe-us-gdp-change-great-depression/
According to these data, in total trade with all countries between 1932 and 1937, Germany experienced the highest growth in the world :
So,Germany’s overall trade between 1932 and 1937 increased by 67.5%, whilst it’s trade with the US decreased by 25% in exports and by 52% in imports.
Which throws your “1929 crash latency” thesis in to a cocked hat …
The fact remains that the Zionist collaboration with the German authorities began around the same time of the boycott, – spring / summer 1933.
Although of interest, your question about the amount of Zyklon delivered to Belsen & Dachau is only of secondary importance when considering allegations of it’s use in alleged mass murder, because these camps are not included in the murder by Zyklon allegations. ( Notwithstanding the orthodoxy’s preposterous position on the alleged “unused homicidal gas chamber at Dachau”. )
The primary consideration should focus on the amount of Zyklon and other materials actually delivered to those camps that do form part of the alleged mass murder using Zyklon narrative. For that, there is no more of an appropriate candidate than Auschwitz.
This is the subject of Volume 40 of the Holocaust handbooks series : “Deliveries of Coke, Wood and Zyklon B to Auschwitz—Neither Proof Nor Trace for the Holocaust” by Carlo Mattogno,
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=40
In order to prove that mass exterminations in gas chambers occurred at the infamous Auschwitz Camp, mainstream historians must rely almost exclusively on eyewitness accounts. They also adduce a few documents with ambiguous contents which they take out of their historical and documental context in order to impute a homicidal meaning to them which they don’t have.
After revisionist scholars pointed out this fact, and also established the highly dubious nature of these witness accounts in numerous studies, a researcher from the Polish Auschwitz Museum, Piotr Setkiewicz, tried a different approach to prove the raison d’être of his employer: In a lengthy paper, he points to documents about deliveries of firewood and coke as well as the pesticide Zyklon B to the Auschwitz Camp. The deliveries and consumption of wood and coke allegedly can be explained only by massive cremation figures compatible only with a large-scale killing program. But to come to this conclusion, ridiculously low average amounts of coke required for the cremation of a corpse in a cremation furnace have to be assumed, and even lower average amounts of wood for the burning of corpses on outdoor pyres. Neither of these amounts is even remotely physically possible. Furthermore, one has to ignore the fact that the wood and coke supplied to the camp also was used to heat hundreds of inmate housing units, in addition to camp administration buildings and SS accommodations, and also to fire the many kitchen stoves and the boiler units in various disinfestation and shower facilities.
The supplies of the pest-control agent Zyklon B presumably point to homicidal activities as well, if we are to believe Setkiewicz. But when considering the total amount of inmate barracks in frequent need of pest control, and the various disinfestation facilities constantly consuming this product to fight lice and fleas in garments and bedclothes, nothing is left for the claim that there is anything sinister about the quantities of Zyklon B the Auschwitz Camp received.
As the present study shows, if realistic amounts of coke and wood needed for recorded (non-homicidal) cremation purposes are assumed, and considering the camp’s need for pest-control agents to fight the various epidemics which ravaged the camp throughout ist history, the documented supplies of coke, wood and Zyklon B actually prove the opposite of what Setkiewicz claims: Not only is there neither trace nor proof for mass murder contained in them, but they actually prove that the mass-extermination and mass-cremation claims cannot be true.
Thank you for your references to your prefered accounts of whhat could have happened at death camps having regard to certain alleged physical facts. But I hope still for a response from Ron because he will surely get the point that you pretty well dismissed.
My point was that, prima facie, all concentration camps where large numbers of people died of typhus would have required a similar use of Zyklon B for delousing. So…. if one finds that there were no, or significantly lower – proportionately to numbers of inmates – deliveries at camps like Dachau and Bergen Belsen which were certainly not camps eith gas chambers then the deliveries to the Polish camps like Auschwitz look much more sinister.
You are once again twisted in knots.
—What happened is simple enough: the Allies could not afford to feed the millions of German prisoners at the same level at which they were feeding their own troops, as required by the Geneva Convention. Even had the food been available, the Allies were not going to feed German prisoners at a higher level than they were able to feed German civilians, not to mention the civilians of the liberated countries of Western Europe, and not to mention as well the displaced persons. But the United States and other Allied nations had signed the Geneva Convention, which had the force of a treaty. They did not wish to violate it, so they used the new designation of “Disarmed Enemy Forces.” The orders to the field commanders were straightforward: do not feed the D.E.F.’s at a higher scale than German civilians.
With regard to another of Mr. Bacque’s conclusions, he arrives at his sensational figure of one million dead through a system of analysis that has left almost everyone who has tried to check his statistics and methods befuddled. He did make one mistake because of a typing error by a clerk. He saw a figure of 70,000 prisoners in an Army medical report and then calculated the total death rate for all prisoners in American hands on the basis of that number and the 21,000 deaths also mentioned in the report. That is, he arrived at his most basic conclusion, a death rate in all camps of 30 percent, by dividing the 21,000 deaths by the 70,000 prisoners. However, the 70,000 figure should have been 10 times higher. All other figures in the document make it clear that the correct number of prisoners was 700,000. This would make the death rate not 30 percent but 3 percent.—
That’s the only legitimate criticism here, huh? That Stalin enacted his system of neo-serfdom too quickly.
I wish you could’ve had a session with Yezhov in Lubyanka. I would gladly read those protocols.
The peasants were indeed protesting against the state arbitrarily seizing their property, as well as the forced labor system which awaited them. Many so-called “kulaks” were simply arrested outright for being “class enemies” and either imprisoned or executed, their possessions looted. Others were tortured to reveal their “hidden” grain reserves—whether they had any or not—or they were made to confess to “wrecking”. All of this was implemented by Stalin, the ideologue and despot. He seemed more concerned with covering up the mess than with mitigating the growing cannibalism problem.
I have a criticism, but perhaps it will not meet politburo requirements of “legitimacy”: besides ending his neo-serfdom scheme, or just phasing out his failed communist shit show altogether, he could’ve requested humanitarian assistance to save millions of lives. But… that would reveal the U.S.S.R. was not in fact “dizzy with success”, so I suppose it’s not a “legitimate” point. Besides, the peasants were natural class enemies and had to be broken one way or another.
Only a real scumbag would blame the peasants for the conditions which led to mass starvation. Naturally, that is exactly what our good Comrade Stalin did. He did not blame himself or his radical policies, because he was responsible for only good things, whereas class enemies and counterrevolutionaries were responsible for all the bad things. Such is the Stalinist method of leadership, which has a certain morbid logic. But, if we can be honest for only a moment, he is the one who sent armed bandits to confiscate peasants’ livestock and grain at gunpoint. He authorized the confessions through torture, and seems to have enjoyed reading them too. He is the one who created the forced labor system which was naturally inefficient and filled with bitter malcontents. You’d have to be a fanatical ideologue, as well as a murderous tyrant, to enact this kind of domestic domination scheme.
Kotkin, S. (2017). Stalin: Waiting for Hitler, 1929-1941. United Kingdom: Penguin Publishing Group.
——————————————-
With regards to fuel, coke, wood whatever, has been answered with many researchers weighting including the designer of the ovens Topf & Son. Lack of fuel is a total red herring. The below website has vast amounts of information and documentation regarding body cremation and fuel. In addition since you seem to be a stock and trade H denier, the entire website is rebuttal to stock and trade H denial and revisionism.
There is also this paper on body disposal by John Zimmerman.
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
This is the best site.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com
It’s amazing the amount of stuff I learn by reading your comments. I have acquired a more nuanced view of the Soviet Union and Maoist China after reading them.
Incidentally, recent world developments also have softened my previous indisposition towards communists. I am referring, for example, to the case of the Israeli parliamentary member who is the subject of Mike Whitney’s article featured currently here at The Unz Review:
Balls of Steel
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/balls-of-steel/
Even in Brazil, where I live, perhaps the foremost example of courage and integrity in this issue is that of Breno Altman, a journalist of Marxist orientation who is being harassed by Zionist organizations, and has had some anti-Zionist tweets censored.
CorvinusLaPere, as usual, you haven’t the slightest clue how to go about determining if something/anything asserted, especially by the mainstream, is or is not likely true. You seem unteachable.
So, the U.S. did, indeed, reclassify the POWs held in their custody in order to inflict improper treatment and/or decrease their otherwise legally required obligations to people under their care. It is generally known/acknowledged that all assistance offered from local civilians was denied. I wonder why the U.S. didn’t just release them? I’ll have to check into that.
Anywho….is the official “excuse” BS?
THE NATIONAL WWII MUSEUM
For months, the US military had been stockpiling supplies that would be needed for the planned invasion of Japan….With the use of the atomic bomb ending the war before such an invasion was necessary, the US Army had a huge supply of rations that could never be used. The leaders of CARE approached the Army and were able to acquire nearly 3 million surplus rations….these robust rations included a variety of items otherwise almost unavailable in some parts of Europe. With almost 3 million rations in their inventory, CARE began to package the items for shipment to Europe…
“Sending Hope to Europe: The First CARE Packages Arrive in 1946”
US National Archives
When Hoover and the men of the FEC arrived in Poland on March 28, 1946, they were shocked by the rubble that had been Warsaw….. After surveying the grim situation, visiting orphanage soup kitchens, and seeing their meager rations, Hoover vowed that the children of Poland would be fed.
[Well, hells-bells, CorvinusLaPere, why wasn’t Uncle Joe feeding his New Slavic Polish Soviet/Bolshevik citizens? Maybe Pretzel will chime in and tell us.]
PBS
1946
The UNRRA distributes $4.5 billion of food and supplies to Europe, where World War Il had shattered economies.
[Well, alrighty CorvinusLaPere, we’re gettin’ somewhere – what’s up at the UNRRA?]
National World War 2 Museum
UNRRA started its work in Greece, in the spring of 1945, shipping food, medical supplies, and clothing across the Mediterranean from Cairo. And Greece stood on the verge of a civil war between Communists and royalists. [What?! The communists? Our allies? Uncle Joe? Pretzel, you have some explaining to do!] …. but UNRRA persisted, and managed to deliver 100,000 of tons of supplies a month, along with tractors and trucks to enable the transport of the goods.
Where to next? How about Wikipedia, and The Marshall Plan?
Wartime destruction:
[…] From July 1945 through June 1946, the United States shipped 16.5 million tons of food, primarily wheat, to Europe and Japan. It amounted to one-sixth of the American food supply and provided 35 trillion calories, enough to provide 400 calories a day for one year to 300 million people…..
The end.
So, CorvinusLaPere goes down in flames once again. And, I’m fairly certain the Soviets at Uncle Joe’s Palace were still feasting on the prime rib, caviar, and chocolate sent by SLBFDR whilst the average European made due with potato/turnip soup, which was still better than the grass/weed soup the German POW’s were consuming.
Oh, shut-up already, CorvinusLaPere, you believe everything the mainstream spoon-feeds you. I doubt we can know exactly the total murdered by the Allies; the German captives were also dispersed throughout France and England as well, not to mention those in Soviet custody. The Judaized American government destroyed Germany, and murdered/starved/killed more Germans than they will admit or confess.
This is really for Pretzel; it’s a repeat, as was the 1932-1933 famine:
National Archives
Deliverance: America and the Famine in Soviet Russia, 1921-1923
Deliverance tells the story of one of the greatest humanitarian efforts in history….
Starting with a mandate to feed one million children, by the summer of 1922, the ARA was feeding a daily meal to nearly 11 million people. They had to overcome a series of unique challenges: a broken-down railroad…
The scale of the operation was enormous, 768 million tons of food was shipped and distributed from 21,000 ARA kitchens. 125,000 medical packages helped supply 16,000 hospitals.
Malcom Muggeridge, March 24, 1933
Living in Moscow and listening to statements of doctrine and of policy, you forget that the lives of a hundred and sixty millions of people, mostly peasants, are profoundly affected by discussions and resolutions….
“We must collectivise agriculture”, or “We must root out kulaks”. But what is going on in the remote villages? I set out to discover it in the North Caucasus.
A little market town in the Kuban district. There were soldiers everywhere – well fed, and the civilian population was obviously starving. I mean starving in its absolute sense; not undernourished, but having had for weeks next to nothing to eat….
The famine is an organised one. The proletariat, represented by the G.P.U. (State Political Police) and the military, has utterly routed its enemies amongst the peasantry who tried to hide a little of their produce to feed themselves. The worst of the class war is that it never stops. First individual kulaks shot and exiled; then groups of peasants; then whole villages. It is literally true that whole villages have been exiled.
About 60% of the peasantry and 80% of the land were brought into collective farms, tractors to replace horses, elevators to replace barns. The Communist directors were sometimes incompetent or corrupt; the agronomes were in many cases a failure. Horses, for lack of fodder, died off much faster than tractors were manufactured, and the tractors were mishandled and broken. Collectivisation was a failure. The immediate result was a falling off in the yield of agriculture. Last year this became acute. It was necessary for the Government’s agents to take nearly everything that was edible.
There took place a new outburst of repression. Shebboldaev, party secretary for the North Caucasus, said in a speech: “At the present moment, when what remains of the kulaks are trying to organise sabotage, every slacker must be deported. That is true justice. You may say that before we exiled individual kulaks, and that now it concerns whole stanitza [villages] and whole collective farms. If these are enemies they must be treated as kulaks’….
Quakers In The World:
[…] Altogether, it is estimated that some 30m people were affected by the famine and some 3m died of typhus alone. Nevertheless, relief efforts were not popular with the Soviet government, who saw bread as a propaganda weapon that could be used against them.
The Quakers finally withdrew from Russia in 1929. When famine again threatened in 1933, no foreign aid was admitted.
Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University
Nearly a century ago, the Soviet Great Famine of 1932–33 caused the death of up to 10 million people…
[…] The data showed that even if one accounted for all the differences in climate, geography, and demography…Ukrainians died at much higher rates during the famine.
To understand whether this bias was intentional or accidental, the authors collected data from the First Five Year Plan, which was designed in 1928 by the central planners of the Soviet Union’s command economy.…the more ethnic Ukrainians there were, the less grain per person the region would keep.
“To us, that was amazing,” Qian says. “They planned to take more grain per person from Ukrainians than Russians. In the beginning, we could not believe it, but that is what the data show.”
[…] “It was about Soviet control over agriculture,” Qian says….Because the Soviet regime was so controlling, it kept meticulous records on everything from grain production to mortality data to peasant uprisings.
[…] One of the most consequential of these policies was collectivization, in which the Soviet regime organized peasants into large collective farms controlled by the government…When new policy began, Ukrainians resisted more than other ethnic groups by slaughtering livestock, setting fire to buildings, and killing local officials, according to secret police reports. Those reports also show that 2 million peasants were persecuted and exiled to Siberia.
The British Israelites had a Sunday night radio show where I was living, aeons ago. I listened for amusement, rather like catching the Goons on Saturdays. And my first favourite restaurant was Indonesian, in an arcade right across from the British Israelite Society. Everybody wants to be God’s Chosen People.
Thanks. I understood the point of your original post, hence my comment of it’s secondary value as a research method.
You speak of my preference to my preferred accounts of the consumption of the alleged murder weapon – Zyklon and quantities of fuel for the alleged cremation of the alleged victims. To be clear – my preference is for truth, rather than propaganda.
You propose a roundabout method of validating or invalidating the consumption of Zyklon at camps that are alleged to have had homicidal gas chambers by comparing those volumes with the volumes used at camps that are not alleged to have had homicidal gas chambers, so that you can then evaluate whether the different locations consumed comparable volumes in proportion to inmate populations.
If you cannot see how the many variables could affect such a comparison then you might benefit from further consideration.
If you really are interested in reading about the volumes of the alleged murder weapon and associated cremation fuel at the principal site of the alleged mass murder by Zyklon gas – Auschwitz, then why don’t you read the book referenced?
That book contains both the claims of Piotr Setkiewicz on behalf of the Auschwitz Museum and corresponding refutation.
Is there another, better source that you think I should consider instead?
Volume 40 of the Holocaust handbooks series : “Deliveries of Coke, Wood and Zyklon B to Auschwitz—Neither Proof Nor Trace for the Holocaust” by Carlo Mattogno,
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=40
You ignored this from post #1250 :
I have read about the call to boycott various Jewish department stores, in two cases because of tax evasion, letting off stink bombs therein and also the placards calling for a German boycott of Jewish shops to encourage German folk to buy German goods. I have read about Goering’s refusal to allow the police to become the guards of Jewish shops.
I have also read about the arrests at the Dresden synagogue, shop windows being broken in Chemnitz etc.
What exactly were the so-called “atrocities” that the Germans were being accused of and complained about, which provided the rationale for the Jewish boycott of the German economy?
> Which throws your “1929 crash latency” thesis in to a cocked hat …
How so? What was originally at issue was trade with the USA. The Great Crash of 1929 first struck in the USA, so it’s not surprising that effects there will be prolonged.
What your own citation does is throw into a cocked hat your own ridiculous about “Germany was scared by the boycott! Wah!” What you’re now telling us is that “Germany’s overall trade between 1932 and 1937 increased by 67.5%”. In other words, the efforts of Samuel Untermeyer to call for a global boycott of Germany accomplished nothing.
That is pure sophistry on your part. The facts show that first in the weeks after January 30 the SA showed a lot of behavior which made people think that they were preparing a likely pogrom, then on March 24 Samuel Untermeyer issued a call for a world boycott of Germany, then on April 1 the SA held a one-day boycott of Jewish stores in Germany which seemed rather mild in comparisons with the signs that had been building a month earlier, and then on April 7 the Jewish Review published the statement that Zionist Organization of Germany could deal with Hitler as “honest partners,” and contacts developed after that. That’s the sequential order of events. You’ve tried to pretend that Untermeyer was disrupting some ongoing dealings on March 24. He was not. If he disrupted anything, it was the possible preparations by the SA for pogrom which was replaced by the one-day boycott.
> That Stalin enacted his system of neo-serfdom too quickly.
Agricultural production did improve from collectivization. This was not a simple matter of “neo-serfdom.” One should particularly review the last section in “Statistical Falsification in the Soviet Union” which begins on page 60 and deals with the arguments by Holland Hunter that collectivization had allegedly caused lower production in later years:
https://www.academia.edu/72537031/Statistical_Falsification_in_the_Soviet_Union
The downloading is free. Tauger shows how Hunter’s argument depends on using inflated pre-collectivization figures. But once the actual data is used, it shows that collectivization did result in better improvements in agricultural production than Hunter’s model would predict without collectivization. So, yes, the general idea of collectivizing agriculture was good for production in the long run and made sense.
As I said, the only really serious criticism to be made is that shifts in agricultural production should have been delayed until after the industrial capacity for manufacturing farm tools had been better developed. Once that had been done, many former peasants began moving to urban centers anyway. But these people had fought with governmental authorities in 1928-31, and in the process had allowed a lot of animals to die and to crops to rot, paving the way for crop failures in 1931-2.
“Stalin appears to have genuinely imagined that increasing the scale of farms, mechanization, and collective efficiency would boost agricultural output.”
It did. Tauger is more knowledgeable about this than Kotkin. Tauger’s research has had a specialized focus on Soviet agriculture, and he is better qualified to comment.
“suggesting the regime had partnered with famine to achieve subjugation.”
The Soviet government never withheld famine relief as far as it was able to. One can charge the Soviet government with having shown a poor understanding of the potential for crop failure. But the reality is that the main fight over collectivization ended in 1931. The famines then came with a crop failure in the Volga in 1931 and in Ukraine in 1932. But this was not at the height of peasant resistance. It was after the major conflicts were already dying down. For information about government efforts to administer famine relief, see the review of Appelbaum by Tauger:
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/169438
Review of Anne Applebaum’s “Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine”
It’s obvious that you are just a polemicist who will never conceded anything.
I’ll read that pdf, but it’s totally irrelevant to the point I was making.
My point was that seizing the property of millions of people and forcing them into a labor system that they didn’t want is really illegitimate governance. That was the point. Whether a forced labor system produces more goods than an abstract alternative according to various abstract models proves absolutely nothing and, more importantly, has no bearing on the ‘rightness’ or ‘wrongness’ of using gangster tactics as a normal way of life. Yeah, the resistance died down because many ‘class enemies’ were imprisoned and/or executed, and the rest realized there was no way out and nobody was going to save them. But whether or not people should have to live that way seems to not even register with you, which tells me all I need to know.
Another carefully worded straw man. For one, you don’t know that.
Are there large sections of the Soviet archives that no historian has ever seen? Yes. Did the Soviet state ever knowingly murder thousands and thousands of people based on made up or exaggerated charges? Yes, they did. Did they murder large swathes of loyal comrades who did everything they were told to do? Yes, they did. Were crimes committed by the Soviet state that we don’t know about? Yeah, that sounds plausible. So withholding food for a particular ‘hot spot’ of starving class enemies seems not only possible, but in accordance with standard practices. Either way, I don’t think anyone in the Central Committee missed a meal while peasants were literally eating each other’s flesh. Certainly the NKVD/OGPU were relatively well fed while they were throwing people into prison and stealing their stuff. And my point was that Stalin could’ve saved possibly millions of lives if he had asked capitalist governments for emergency assistance, which he would not do.
> What exactly were the so-called “atrocities”
That’s your choice of word, but Ian Kershaw actually uses it too.
—–
Hitler had at one fell swoop removed constraints on violence towards Jews. Without any orders from above, and without any coordination, assaults on Jewish businesses and the beating up of Jews by Nazi thugs became commonplace. As one of many such incidents, the Frankfurter Zeitung reported on 12 March how a Jewish theatre director in Breslau had been hustled into a car in broad daylight by five SA men before having his clothes removed and beaten by rubber truncheons and thrashed with a dog whip. He later suffered a nervous breakdown. A Jewish eye-witness in the same city recounted groups of six to eight SA men, carrying coshes and revolvers, breaking into the houses of wealthy Jews and extorting money from them. They even interrupted court proceedings to throw Jewish lawyers and judges out onto the streets, beating them up as they did so. Some Jews suffered an even worse fate. The German correspondent of the Manchester Guardian described on 16 March how four men with guns had broken into the house of a Jewish business man and money lender in Straubing (Lower Bavaria) who had won a libel suit two years earlier against a Bavarian Landtag deputy, dragged him out of bed, forced him into a car, and driven him away. He was later found shot dead. Countless such atrocities took place in the weeks following Hitler’s assumption to power.
—–
— Ian Kershaw, Hitler: 1889-1936, Hubris, pp. 471-2.
—–
The violence reached new levels in the aftermath of the elections of 5 March. he day after the election, gangs of brownshirts rampaged along the Kurfürstendamm, a fashionable shopping street in Berlin, which many Nazis saw as an area where Jews tended to congregate, hunting down Jews and beating them up. In Breslau, a gang of stormtroopers kidnapped the Jewish director of the theatre, beating him to within an inch of his life with rubber truncheons and dog-whips. A synagogue was set on fire in Königsberg in East Prussia, and a Jewish businessman was abducted and beaten so badly that he later died of his injuries. Gangs of stormtroopers daubed and blockaded Jewish shops in several localities.
In Breslau, stormtroopers assaulted Jewish judges and lawyers in the court building on 11 March. The courts suspended business for three days, and when they reconvened, the President of the Court, under pressure from the brownshirts, ruled that henceforth only 17 out of the 364 Jewish lawyers who had hitherto practised in Breslau would be allowed entry into the court building. Other stormtroopers burst into courthouses all over Germany, dragged Jewish judges and lawyers out of the proceedings and beat them up, telling them not to return. The disruption caused by all this was too much even for Hitler, who called on 10 March for a stop to ‘individual actions’ of this kind if they disrupted official business or harmed the economy (a problem on which he had already received complaints from influential business circles, from the Reichsbank downwards). Hitler also personally forced the Leipzig Party bosses to call off a planned raid on the Reich Court with the object of hauling out Jewish lawyers. Courts lower down the hierarchy were a different matter, however, and here he did not intervene.
—–
— Richard Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich, pp. 431-2.
One could go on, but there should be no need. While it’s impossible to know what would have happened if things had been done differently, it is easy to see why many people in the early months of 1933 thought that the SA might be building its way towards a pogrom. If so, then Untermeyer’s efforts to call for a boycott (which were unsuccessful, as you yourself have shown) probably did help to stop this.
It’s obvious that your a hoaxer who concedes things casually, and then refuses to acknowledge the concession. Let’s review what you’ve conceded.
1) Your first bit of data conceded that the major decline in US-German trade happened in 1929-32 and was obviously by the Great Depression, not by anything having to do with calls for a boycott.
2) Your second item conceded that Germany’s trade worldwide actually grew significantly from 1933 onward, with a drop in US-German trade being the exception.
Right there you’ve admitted that no real loss of trade was suffered by Germany after 1933, and the drop with trade specifically with the US can be mostly explained by the Depression. But now you’re going to dance around this and pretend that I’m the one who has failed to concede.
> My point was that seizing the property of millions of people and forcing them into a labor system that they didn’t want is really illegitimate governance.
Since that is outside of what I was addressing, there’s no real reason to argue. I had brought up a very specific Cold War charge which traditionally claimed that the famines of 1931-3 were deliberately caused by a plan to starve people by withholding food which had been produced. This had especially come up in relation to the Hunger Plan of 1941, where German documents do specifically declare the aim of withholding food from large numbers of Slavs who will be allowed to perish as a matter of policy.
If we drop the comparison there, one can still make many criticisms of Stalin. Trotsky’s made a lot more sense: the 5-year plan should have focused on simply building industries which would enable the application of mechanized farming, while attempts at collectivization should have been delayed. Once the USSR had been industrialized, many people began moving off of farms and into cities to join the industrial work force. The original conflict of 1928-31 (a low-level civil war between cities and countryside) happened because Stalin decided to force collectivization at a time when small farms depended heavily on manual labor in ways which were not suited for large-scale production. It was a bad decision, but not a deliberate attempt to create a famine.
1) One of your straw mans Patrick. I did not claim anything about the 1929-32 trade figures. You did.
2) The 1932-37 trade volumes cited show a 67.5% increase. As I have already said, this is for trade with all countries and conceals the reducing trade figures quoted earlier between Germany and the US. You then try to get around this by claiming that because the great depression started in the US, then that was the reason why it’s trade with Germany continued to fall. There may be some truth in that, but would require detailed analysis and US trade comparisons with other European countries. So far you have not presented any data to separate these possible causes from the effects of the boycott.
Also, according to US Jewish leader, AJC & WJC luminaire and founder and chairman of the Joint Boycott Council, Joseph Tenenbaum, the increase in Germany’s trade, is said to have been the result of :
So, your rather crass response to figures in grouped years of overall trade volumes, requires a more informed interpretation. If the not disinterested Tenenbaum’s writings are to be believed, then these figures were not the result of hard currency trade alone, but were largely the result of Eastern European barter agreements replacing foreign currency payments.
You assert that I should concede your simplistic and wrong interpretation of your claimed reason for Germany’s post-crash trade volumes with the entire world. You are mishteaken.
I do not need to pretend anything Patrick. That’s not how I debate.
So far, you cannot even concede that the Jewish led boycott of the German economy occurred at the same time that the Zionists were cooperating economically with the German authorities to get German Jews to Palestine. We know that von Mildenstein began his evaluation visit to Palestine in the spring of 1933 so we must assume that negotiations for this had begun earlier. We know that the Haavara Agreement came into effect in August 1933 – the very same time that some texts claim the boycott was beginning to take effect. Some texts discuss this very fact. In response, you waffle on about other things and completely ignore it.
I posted one example of this economic cooperation from May 1933 and you completely ignore it.
I conclude that you are a polemicist who is either unable or unwilling to discuss these matters in good faith.
I have no idea what you mean here Patrick.
Can you please explain :
1) what you mean by “hoaxer”
2) what evidence you have to conclude that I am a “hoaxer”
Thanks.
NOTED
Noted
You are just farting bullshit out of your ass and making up an alternate “would have” which suits your bullshit.
> I did not claim anything about the 1929-32 trade figures.
Of course not. You tried to overlook and bury what your own data-source said.
> The 1932-37 trade volumes cited show a 67.5% increase.
Which demonstrates that there was no “world boycott” of Germany going on.
> If the not disinterested Tenenbaum’s writings are to be believed, then these figures were not the result of hard currency trade alone, but were largely the result of Eastern European barter agreements replacing foreign currency payments.
There’s no reason to take issue with that, although this less to do with any calls for a boycott made in 1933 and more to do with Hitler’s actual aims. The program which Hitler aimed for from the moment he took the Chancellorship was rearmament, for which specific natural resources would need to be gained, culminating eventually in the drive to the east which was intended to bring living space to the Aryan Herrenvolk at the expense of the Russian inhabitants. It’s not as if Hitler was sitting around thinking “Dang! I so much wanted to trade with New York! But I guess now I’ll have to try looking for access to Romanian oil!” All of the types of trading which Germany conducted were in line with the original goals of Hitler.
> the Jewish led boycott of the German economy occurred at the same time that the Zionists were cooperating economically
You’re the one fudging dates there. The calls for a boycott were made a time when no contact was happening at all between Zionists and German authorities. What was going on was that the SA were acting like they were preparing a pogrom, as indeed they very well have been. After the calls for a boycott had been made, the SA started tempering things down a bit and held a one-day boycott of German stores. As was not by critical observers at the time, the depth of information which had been gathered by the SA about sorts of little Jewish businesses across the whole of Germany was so thorough that it’s hard to believe that this one-day boycott was something called merely in response to Samuel Untermeyer. More likely is that the SA were told to shelve some bigger plans which they may have had and keep things a bit quieter. It was after all of this, that Zionist organizations began reaching out to German authorities. You’re just trying to play down the evidence that something much more than a one-day boycott had probably been planned originally, but got cancelled because of the response outside of Germany.
> I posted one example of this economic cooperation from May 1933 and you completely ignore it.
I did not ignore anything. I rather pointed out that your own date in May is consistent with the fact that this only developed after Samuel Untermeyer had issued calls for a boycott on March 24, after the one-day boycott of Jewish stores held by the SA on April 1 had shown that they were climbing down from what had been a more threatening posture in the first 90 days from when Hitler gained the Chancellorship. There’s no evidence of Hitler taking office on January 30 and then putting in a call to Zionist groups to discuss emigration. The pattern for the first 90 days or so was that it looked like he was ready to just let the SA run loose. Then the calls for a boycott forced him to reign things in a bit. That is what you are trying to cover up.
Says the lying fraud who tries to pretend that Hitler’s statements from October 1941 mean crap about his original views on the eve of Barbarossa.
It’s a waste of time trying to engage with you Patrick.
I shan’t be making the shame mishteak again …
Weckert is simply twisting dates in order to falsify things. You really need to get used to checking things yourself independently. Your own source does not support the hoax which you’re trying to sell:
“… in May 1933 the first accords on economic policy were signed.”
Yes, sure, in May. Let’s remind ourselves again, when did Samuel Untermeyer issue a call for a boycott of Germany? The date on the newspaper with the famous headline “Judea Declares War on Germany!” was March 24. There was no accord on economic policy anywhere in sight at that time. What was happening was that the SA were regularly carrying out assaults against various people, not all of them Jews, but quite a few, and the atmosphere in Germany seemed to suggest that a major pogrom was building up. Then after Untermeyer made his appeal for a boycott in New York, there was a short one-day boycott of Jewish businesses held all across Germany. It had obviously been well-prepared far in advance, but it seemed compared to what people had been expecting from the SA had been acting since January 30. Then, lo and behold, it was announced that efforts were going to be made to develop trade with the help of Zionist groups.
You’re trying to flip things by making it sound as if Hitler came office and started reaching out to Zionist groups in order to promote trade, when suddenly Untermeyer demanded a boycott of Germany. That mixes up dates completely. What makes this especially absurd is that all of this started because another poster had made the absurd claim that Untermeyer’s statement of March 24 meant that Jews worldwide had now declared war on Germany. I had simply pointed out that there was no worldwide campaign by Jews against Germany in response to Untermeyer. You, here, have in practice accepted that. But now you’ve shifted to trying to claim that Hitler always meant to work Zionists right from the start, and Untermeyer was getting in the way of that. The evidence points in a different direction. Hitler was willing to give the SA some latitude to run wild and see what they could get away with. But he backed up after March 24, and then he began seeking more contacts with Zionists.
Dear oh dear Patrick. Desperate stuff. When your silly and pointless argumentative position is contradicted, you simply accuse the source of twisting things …
Repeat after me Patrick : January, February, March – that’s the way the months have been ordered for quite some time now …
January, February, March …
Are you a calendar denier Patrick?
My source in this case is Ingrid Weckert. I do not have her source to hand so cannot verify it presently. She states that Hanotea Ltd. approached the German government in February 1933, which is the likely timing that I have previously suggested would probably have been the case, given that we know von Mildenstein went to Palestine on his evaluation trip in the Spring of 1933. I have previously suggested a few times that negotiations between the German authorities and Zionists in Palestine must have preceded von Mildenstein’s visit yet you refuse to acknowledge that very likely probability.
I now present an author who cites a source which states that negotiations between the two parties began in February 1933 which obviously precedes the March 1933 Jewish calls for a boycott of German goods, just as I have suggested all along, and the your only response is to accuse that author of “twisting dates”. You offer no contradictory source, just a, so far, empty accusation.
I am not trying to sell any hoax Patrick. In this instance, all I am trying to do is to persuade you that the Jewish led boycott of the German economy occurred at the same time that the Zionists were first negotiating and then cooperating economically with the German authorities to get German Jews to Palestine.
Which is, quite clearly and obviously true.
Even if Weckert’s claim of first contact in February 1933 cannot be supported, my statement is still true.
> the Jewish led boycott of the German economy occurred at the same time that the Zionists were first negotiating
Background negotiations with no major result, while the SA was carrying on activities which seemed to presage a pogrom. This is at the center of your hoax. You repeatedly skip over the record of violence which suggested to many impartial observers that a pogrom was being prepared by the SA. The one-day boycott that was carried out on April 1, 1933, was obviously a minor affair in comparison with what many had read from assaults carried on by the SA after January 30. Any serious reading of the evidence about the SA’s behavior and the subsequent agreements with German Zionist organizations which came after April 1 will show that the calls for a boycott made on March 24 may have tipped the balance from one approach to another.
Anyway, this is already a long way from this sub-thread began with some other posters. Originally, someone had tried to claim that the calls for a boycott made by Untermeyer on March 24 meant that now “world Jewry: had declared war on Germany. I responded by pointing out that many Jewish organizations had rejected Untermeyer’s calls for a boycott. Now you’ve taken that up here, bit simply with the added embellishment that there couldn’t possibly be any reason for Untermeyer to have that the SA might be preparing a pogrom against German Jews when he made his statement of March 24. That’s wrong, but it’s a different issue from the original claim.
Recapitulation :
Evidently, you now concede that :
That simple, chronological point, took 10 days for you to finally concede.
I have not conceded anything. There were no real negotiations until April. Some Zionist groups tried to communicate with the Hitler government, but this was taken up by Berlin until April. There was nothing going on at the time of March 24 for Untermeyer to look at and see “Oh, I get it, we have some negotiations in process.” What was happening was that the SA were carrying out various acts of assault and assassination across Germany, which slowed down sharply after Untermeyer had issued his call for a boycott. You’re just scraping through for little signs of Zionist groups attempting to contact Berlin prior to March 24, without showing any evidence that Hitler was seriously interested. And you’re deliberately jumping around the evidence which shows that the SA were likely planning a pogrom from February onward, before this was called off.
Again, the original starting point of this sub-thread had been when some other posters tried to imply that after Untermeyer had issued his call, then suddenly world Jewry had declared war on Germany. You’ve de facto retracted that, with the argument now being that, umm, actually, there was German-Zionist dealings going on the whole time. It’s true that there were Zionists who had thought about dealing with the Third Reich even before March 24. but Hitler and the SA only took real interest afterwards. But anyway, that’s a different line of thought from the original claim about “Judea Declares War on Germany!”